I'm Not Always The Best Muslim: Why My Marriage Failed & What Really Went Down at the BAFTAs! Big Zuu EXCLUSIVE!

33:27Yeah, yeah. So how did you two break up? So... When the show airs, during COVID, we didn't live together at this point because we were still young. I was like, her family were big on us living together. And I was like, yes, but I'm 24. I'm 23. I'm 23, 24. Like, I don't earn enough from my career to go and live in a house with you right now. Let me stay at home. And once I get enough, let's go. Okay. She was not, she did not like that. You know, she's like, we're married. We should have a house. We should live together. We should start off. I'm like, but we're young. And the only reason we're married is because your dad told us we have to.

34:13So there was always this conflict, this battle. So when COVID hits, my mum was like, she's not coming to the house. She's like, we are following the laws. I'm like, okay. So I didn't see her. I didn't see her for time. And then Big Eats comes out. The show comes out. My life kind of changes. and I mean I can't speak on behalf of her but I think my ex never really wanted to to date someone who was in a public eye she wanted to have a normal low-key nuclear family relationship she loved me as a person but the music the TV it was getting I was I was blowing up and for her she didn't really ever want that so then when when when that year happened when 2020 happened I think we both came to a place where I was like to her I feel like I feel like you don't want this and we love each other and we got a lot of love but deep down we might be right through each other but right now this ain't working we just we stopped clicking and I had to make the decision I knew she would have stayed by my side regardless of anything but I thought you know what what's best for us is let's go on a break so I called the break and you know breaks don't always work and they rarely work went on a break and her dad called me and he was like what do you want?

35:36And I'm like I want her I want her but like I want myself as well I want what I want for myself and he was like well what do you want to do? I said let's meet up we'll talk and we'll see what we do to move forward and then she texts me and she was like you spoke to my dad I'm like yeah yeah I told him let's link up she's like no he said you're done I was like what? and she basically basically her dad said how I sounded on the phone was like I'm done and she was like my dad said you're done and I was like well I'm not let's meet up she's like just be real say the truth and I was like you know what fine it's done and then we spoke and we ended it man were you truly done?

36:24yeah I think I think I was tired of pretending that I didn't want to put myself first. As much as I did love her, you know, me and her, we had a lot of ups and downs. You know, we were on and off. We broke up, got back together, had the break. There was like so many times where it just felt like I had to choose either my career or her. And that's what it felt like. And, you know, she's a lovely girl and she really, really helped guide me and shape me as a man. but she didn't want to be by my side while I did what I was doing. You know what's so tough about that is it sounds like you two were very compatible at a different part of your life.

37:09Yes. Yes. You know? But I think this brings up a question that so many people have in relationships is that what happens when you have the partner who starts, you know, becoming the star in whatever career? You know, they start climbing the corporate ladder. They start, they get the TV shows. They become a big creator. How does the one partner that is not in the limelight, how do they sustain a relationship with someone like that? So if you now, when you look back at that relationship, do you think there's anything that you should have done differently? I think from young, we suppressed what I wanted to be.

37:51I always downplayed it. Like, oh, no, my music is just my hobby. Okay. So I didn't even tell her dad that I was a musician until one day her dad sees me on YouTube. What's going on? Why is he rapping? I thought he was a youth worker. Yeah. And then I sat down with him. I told him the truth. I said, look, you're a religious man. I didn't want you to not accept me because of music. But I'm like, listen to my music, though. Listen to what I'm saying. listen to what I'm talking about listen to what I don't get me wrong I have songs that are like gang and songs that are gas and got some messaging that isn't the greatest but I do have a lot of songs that are about young people and moving forward and making a change so he listened to my message and he was like okay music is haram and I don't agree with it but if it's what brings you love and it brings you passion and you're happy and it makes you money then do it when you say music is haram he's saying music is the devil.

38:56Yes, essentially. Like music is not allowed in Islam. That's just how it is. And being a rapper, it's not a good thing, like religiously. Earning money from something haram, it means that your money is not blessed. I don't think God put music on this earth for us to not use it to help people. I think there is bad sides to it. Don't get me wrong. There's negative connotations in rap that bring down our community, but they're also beautiful sides. And I think that's what the thing with her dad was, is that she was like, she was just worried about that. So I think that was always a thing in our relationship that was quite tough, is that I always suppressed who I am to suit what she wanted.

39:36Whereas I should have never done that. She's always been open about who I am and who I am to her dad. I should have told her from the jump. I should have told her, I've got these big dreams. I really want to make it. I want to be who I am now. Right. You know, whereas I suppressed that to try and suit our relationship, which was wrong. do you miss that relationship at all? I think what I miss, what's weird is that, you know, I've had two partners since her. And one thing I always think about is people say, you should be with the girl that was with you before anything blew up. That's like always a thing you see on that, whether it's a film or whether it's like a TV or whatever.

40:17Sometimes I do think like she was really important to me and I wish that she could have some of the experiences that I have now with the lifestyle that I have now with the fact that I've been able to earn in good ways and like just like been able to travel the world and eat some of the maddest food I do wish I was able to do that with her but I think this is how God writ God said you're going to get to a certain point with her and then I'm going to take her to another place without her you know so there are parts of me that do sometimes think would it wouldn't make sense for me to be with her because she was with me from before.

40:55She knew me from when I was in college. Right. But then I also know we weren't meant for each other because I'm here without her. And she needs someone that suits her better than me. Just because we love each other doesn't mean we should be together. Yeah. You know? So you still love her? Let's get deep.

41:20I think I always have love for her, which is the easiest answer in the world, right? I was going to say, don't give me that. Don't give me that. Give me the real. Give me the real. Give me the real. Oh, it's tough, man. I think I have moved on from her, but there'll always be a little, little part of me that will always love her. Yeah. And I think that happens with your first partner. I was with her for seven years. You know? Mm-hmm. And I know any future girlfriend who's watching this is going to be like, fucking prick. No. No. You know what it is, too, is the reason why I ask that is because your body language has been chilled the entire time that we've talked.

42:03We've been talking forever. Oh, man, this guy, I knew it was going to get hit. With the camera, I knew it. You're right. Yeah, you're right. The moment I let you finish up, what? I have been very chilled. And now I'm nervous. Now you're nervous. You're moving. You're doing this. You sound like you. I was like, yo, look. He went the first time I seen him do this. And you lean back like this. It's so funny. No, it's funny. I find it funny. It's hilarious. Yeah. Our body never lies. No.

42:38Body never lies. You're good, man. He's good to die. He's good to die. All right. We won't keep pushing it. I mean, the BAFTA, we have to spend a second on that because that was a big moment. Yeah. That's a big, big, big moment. Yeah, that changed a lot. You get nominated. What's your thought when you hear about the nomination? We got nominated for the season that came out in 2020, Lost. Then the season that came out in 2021 was for the 2022 BAFTAs. So it's 2022, we're allowed out again, normal COVID. First time ever going to the BAFTA Awards. Nominated for Best Entertainment Performance I nominated for Best Feature Programme.

43:17I don't even understand what that means. I don't know what it means. I just, I remember I get there, I'm with my friends, we're just like, see how it goes, isn't it? We lost the last one, so we had no expectation. And yeah, just, I remember sitting down, the first award was for Best Feature, and I remember just looking at the presenter, and I could see their lips. I'm like, are you going to say big? And I remember that the winner is, but as soon as I saw the book I said oh my days I looked at my team they said please do not bring everyone to the stage we brought everyone mum friends the whole team everyone's on stage and it was my moment man I got to the to the lector and they said look at the autocue you have one minute and I just said I'm going to speak my truth and it all came out and I remember I'm like yo my mum was the last person to walk on stage I'm like oh hang tight that woman right there that's my mum she was a refugee from Sierra Leone it's the first thing I said yes because I felt like it was the most important thing to say she's a refugee from Sierra Leone she came here four months pregnant during the rebel war Tabzi my boy to my right his family are from Iraq and Iran who were in a war when he was born this is Haider he's from Kurdistan which is in a recognised state Man come from humble beginnings.

44:45And I just, I remember that set the tone. Because I let, I knew at that moment, I let everyone know where we're from. Which was important to let them know, look how far we've come. Then I started speaking, I started talking about where we come from. I said, yo, if you see people like us being a BAFTA, you know, they can think they can do anything. Then I went to the main most important point, which was about working class. people in television. Because TV is not run by the worker class, but the country is. Like, we make up, the worker class makes up most of the country. So shouldn't TV be representative of who the country is?

45:25But more than 50 % of TV is not worker class. So then that doesn't make sense because then the people that make the shows aren't actually representing society. Then you add in race. Then you add in gender. Then you add in sex. It's like all the isms and schisms. So I wanted to say something that was important, but when I was looking at this room full of all these elaborate, famous white people, I'm like, working class. That's who we did this for. Normal people from normal backgrounds, which half of you aren't. And I remember saying that point, and the whole room clapped, and then I get in backstage and we take our pictures of our bath, and I go on my phone and I'm like, rah, my speech is going viral.

46:12because it touched people and I didn't plan it I didn't I just said how I felt I'm going back in the room now of holding this BAFTA everyone's looking at me differently at first everyone's looking at me like who's this guy now everyone's looking at me like you're the guy that won the BAFTA I'm sitting down next award comes up I win again I'm like oh shit I remember I get on stage I'm like well I said it all in the first speech So I got nothing to say. So I bigged up my mum again. So I got bigged up my mum twice because she did both roles, which is what I said. And my dad messaged me after. He's like, you didn't have to say that.

46:51I was like, shut up. And I remember when I won the second one, I was like, this is a historic moment for me. I'm 26 years old. I left my passion, music, to follow another passion of mine. And here I am at the height of how you can be recognized in this medium. Right. But isn't it interesting how quickly it changes? Yeah. Because this is my story for you is that was my first BAFTA. Okay. I was seated four rows in front of you. Okay, mad. And I remember you distinctly, you and your crew. The reason why is I was like, yo, they didn't even wear tuxes. I was in a yellow Stone Island jacket, yeah. I was like, yo, my man rolled up just like how he wants to roll.

47:41But the reason why it stood out so much to me is because I had posted basically the same thing. But I didn't win. But I had posted. I was like, look where I came from, especially from the U.S. And here I am at my first BAFTA. Yeah, that's mad. I was like, yo, just to do this is wild. Then you won. And I felt like you were holding it down for so many of us. Yeah, one million percent. But the one thing I definitely saw, and you tell me if I saw it right or wrong, is I peeped you when you and your crew first came in. And I was like, you know what? This is interesting because it looked like you were just there and no one was really paying you any attention.

48:20Nope. The moment you had that BAFTA in your hand, I couldn't even get it. Because I wanted to come up and say, you know, congrats, my man. Like, you don't know me, but congratulations. I couldn't even get to you. Nah, nah, it was mine. That's how many people had surrounded your area where you were. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is that how it happened? Yeah, and we left. None of that. We left. Oh, really? Because it was? It was too mad. The dinner wasn't nice, which they hate. I'm very cool with the BAFTAs, and I respect them as an organization, but that dinner was bad. So we left. But we didn't just leave because we didn't like the food.

48:58Don't get me wrong, cooking for that many people isn't easy, so no disrespect to the caterers but we left because it just didn't feel right we went from being the random kids in the room why are you guys why are you in a yellow Stone Island jacket to congrats and we just felt like we needed to go soak it in so we went to a kebab shop went to a random kebab shop in West London me, Tubzy Hyda and my manager Matt and the commissioner Natalie Rose we all left. I looked at the woman that does, that did all the marketing for Dave. And I just, I said to her, can I leave? And she was like, you won. Do what you want.

49:43I was like, okay, I'm gone. And I remember we left and I remember they were like, because you know, after the dinner, you have the party, we just never felt welcomed. How do we change that? Because, you know, quite honestly, I left early too. I've been to two BAFTAs and both I've left early because what I think a lot of people don't realize is that after the awards show you walk down the stairs to a dinner that's set up and then to your point that dinner turns into a party which turns into a party, another party, party, party and what it always feels like to me and I don't know if this is because I'm an introvert but I never feel fully comfortable in that space and it's interesting because on television I feel comfortable like when I'm doing my thing I do my thing and I feel good about it but when I'm in those spaces where it is the television industry I always feel marginalized 100 % so what's your take on how you feel in those spaces and then how do we change those spaces so long story short it's always filled with white people We're in a white country.

50:58So that makes sense. But the industry should be reflective of the country. Country, there's quite a few black people, yeah? There's a percentage. We're low percentage. But there's a bit. Then there's a bit of Asian people. Then there's different minorities. Then there's disabled people. The room is not reflective of society. The room is reflective of the TV industry. and TV industry, there's a lot of white men. So you see that. Then it feels a little bit elitist because it's like, I speak slang, I'm from the hood. I don't drink champagne. We drink Henny. There's so many little connotations that you don't, you don't, like me personally, I don't like conform to.

51:49So when I get in the room now, instantly I don't feel like I'm in the right place. And it's not just the BAFTAs, it's all TV award shows because we were lucky to get nominated for them all. Most of them. Most award shows I've been to. And I always do all the same. I always feel like, I'm always looking for the other ethnic people. And when I see them, I go, you're here. We're here. There's another one. But it's like, there's one. Yeah, there's not a lot. You know, two. No, there's not a lot. Don't get me wrong. They've worked hard to change it. This year, I went to the BAFTAs. I didn't stay for the thing.

52:23I was I'd presented my award and I left and I remember seeing Supercell nominated and they were they sat together and it was like 10 black people sitting together and I was like that's so powerful look at that but then they stuck out and it's just really interesting because you know people are going to comment and say you know we live in a white country this is England of course the TV should have a lot of white people and it should but But the representation, the opportunities that get given to people of colour, that get given to people from different backgrounds, it's got a long way to go. And I think that night that I won the BAFTA was part of that change, part of that different representation.

53:08And I think this is where the audience has more power than the audience thinks. Yes. They have. You know, for example, in the U.S., there was this big campaign of Oscars So White, hashtag Oscars So White, and it started to create change around diversity and inclusion in the Oscars. And you think with television, it's like people vote with their eyes. They vote with their downloads. Naturally. Yeah. And when I look at your success as well as I think, wow, this is interesting because the reason why a commissioner wants you to present a show is because they know people are going to watch. Yeah. And so if they know people are going to watch you, that means that people are connecting with you.

53:48Yeah. That could be of a different race, different ethnicity, different religion. One million percent. You know, so what do you think it is? I know this is going to be, it sounds like I'm asking you to stroke your ego, but on the grill is what do you think it is about you that resonates with so many people? I'm just a normal British kid. And I think that resonates with them. obviously I'm a TV chef and most TV chefs do not sound like me or look like me. So I think what Big Eats did really well as a cooking show was make food relatable to normal people. And I used to think it was a race thing. It wasn't.

54:29It was a class thing. We made food accessible to the working class. Dave is a channel that is mostly watched by working class people. So when they watched the show, they saw me and my two friends from secondary school having a laugh. Yeah, I'm mixed race and I'm from Sierra Leone and I'm from Lebanon and I speak slang and I love grime and I man them and I wear tracksuits. But under all of that, under all the isms and schisms, I was born in London and I love food. That's it. That's it. And I think that television is so intimate. You know, the audience is inviting you into their living room. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

55:09You know, their most intimate space in their house probably. And they're spending time. Spending time with you. Yeah. I saw that 30 % of Brits feel as if Islam is a threat to British culture. And most of that sentiment is held by middle to upper class. Yeah. But then at the same time, you have 90 % of Muslims in this country have felt an increased threat on their lives since 2024, in particular. To me, it feels incredibly sad both ways. So you being a Muslim man on television, right? what's your thought in terms of how do we how do you see a path to us being able to get to a place where there's a higher level of respect of your religion i mean yeah i think it's it's so tough to unpack bro the bbc just did a show with me called bigs who goes to mecca yeah which had which aired last year and we got so much love for it so much respect for it you know people really loved the show people from all walks of life and I respect the BBC for giving me a platform to do that but there was a lot of pushback as well like why is BBC commissioning the show about a Muslim guy going to do his pilgrimage do we need to see that or why are we paying why are taxpayers paying for that what's mad is that throughout of Big East me, Tabs and Hyde were all Muslim all of us are Arab we say words like inshallah we talk about halal we don't eat pork we're like demanding no drink all these little things and people loved it because we're still British we don't compromise on our Britishness we're still British we're just Muslims that are British and I think you know I think representation is super important because when you have shows like that subconsciously we're breaking down people who have a certain ideology that Muslims are doing negative things to their country because they watch us on the telly and they go those lads are alright so actually maybe that Muslim guy I know in real life maybe he isn't coming for me maybe he's cool as well so representation is super important because it breaks down the subconscious the best way for me to give an example is I love Rosie Jones Rosie Jones she's a comedian at 740Z she's mad she's mental She's hilarious.

57:45So funny. I've never even had a conversation with someone with cerebral palsy, let alone chilled with them. So when I did an episode of Big Eats with her, it was a big shock for me because it's like, how do I talk to you? How do I appropriate you? Do I change how I am with you? Do I just treat you the same? Do I go slower? My brain was thinking all these things. But as soon as I spent two minutes with her, I'm like, she's a normal chick, bruv. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. so it taught me sometimes you have to be around things to understand them so my episode with Rosie is my favourite episode because I cook her this mad meal and then we me and her but me and her get on like a house on fire so then now when people watch the episode they'll see oh that Rosie Jones woman yeah she's a disabled comedian she's actually really funny she's a normal chick she's quite rude and she's quite she might be a little bit of a prick but like in a good way But then that's breaking down The barrier of what you think Of disabled people Now you might think Disabled people are not able You might think They can't They're not funny Or they don't They're not Like she loves talking about women Like she's a lesbian She loves gal Like you maybe not Maybe not think that they have Any sexuality to them You might not think They even have sex So then That's breaking it down So if that's what Rosie's doing With her By being representative Of people with cerebral palsy That's what me and Tubbs are doing And Hyda are doing Of representing people from Islam.

59:11Right. But then you can't just have us. You need a wealth of us because Muslims come in different shapes and sizes and come in different forms. Same way you can't just have Rosie because Rosie is not the only disability there is in the world. You have to have different forms of different representation across the board. You can't just have one black man because that one black man doesn't represent all black people. Right. So even though he's a cool black man and he's a nice black man there might be a different type of black man who's a bit more funny or who's a bit more strict or who's a bit more wacky.

59:42You need all forms so you can understand all forms of that race or that gender or that disability or that sex. So I feel like what we have with representation on telly is that because there's not enough, things get put into a box. And I'm with you because even behind the scenes, because I've been in television here in this country for seven years, all seven years that I've been here, but then previously in the U.S. and there's a big difference between the television industry in the US and the UK. Big difference. We're not where we need to be in the US, but we're much more diverse than we are in the US.

1:00:19Yeah, naturally. I mean, that would make sense. I come from music, which is way more diverse as an industry. Because naturally, music is open to anyone. So, yeah, your label execs might be of the same, like the same as telly, but people in positions of power of music are diverse. There's women, there's men, there's people from different races, different genders. Telly is completely different. Yes. Telly, I've entered the telly game and I'm like, whoa, Big Nasty opened the doors for me, which I never thought would ever be a thing. I never thought Big Nasty, the grime MC, would be the person that opened the doors for people like me to get onto television.

1:01:01Because Nasty opened the door for me, that means I can go open the door for other people. Yeah, exactly. Tony Morrison one of my favorite writers of all time right she talks about how what freedom is is helping someone else become free yeah right and it seems like that's what's happening because I heard you say that you formed a production company yeah yeah I got a production company so what's the focus what's your goal with the production company the main thing we're called Big Productions which is the easiest name of all time which is hilarious I could have been a bit more creative Big Productions I built it one type ownership Because I felt like when I was making my show, Big Eats, I was coming up with all the ideas.

1:01:40Not all the ideas in terms of like I freaking created the show, but I came up with a lot of it. A lot of it is based off me. It's called Big Zoo's Big Eats. Right, right. A lot of the essence, the flow, the ideas, they stem from who I am as a person. But I know ownership over the IP, over all these little back-end bullshit things that you don't care about when you first get into telly because you just want to present. But you start realising, whoa, whoa. I'm not the most important person in this room right now. The exec is, the commissioner is. They get all the applauded. They get all the enjoyment.

1:02:13I, as a talent, yeah, I get, I'm lit, but they're actually the Gs. Yeah. The exec producer and the commissioner, they're the ones that are winning. Yeah. How can I be with them? Mm. And it was Big Nasty's team that told my manager, you should start a production company because that's what they did. So Nasty gave me this advice to go start a production company. So I did. But then I started realising how do I give people from different backgrounds opportunities in telly? Which goes back to me being a youth worker raising aspirations of young people. That's been the common theme. Yeah, that throughout my career.

1:02:46Yeah. First season, everyone was white. Only black guy was a runner. Season two, we get a black director. by season four now completely diverse service producers a black woman I get a black woman to come be a director camera ops soundies and then this is the point where I started to realise it's not just about colour it's about class right so then it's about hiring people from different classes so then I get some working class people in the show and then I start to realise okay it's not just about race and class it's about gender as well so getting women like getting a female director and a female series producer.

1:03:25Just the representation is important because I tell you, my son, my youngest son, he saw you. He was like, oh, wow, I could do this. That means I could cook too. Because he loves, he's always in our house cooking up things. He makes me coffee. We call him the barista. We call him the angry barista. He's always mad with it. You know, he's very Jamaican. He's very, very, very. But it wasn't until he saw you on TV where he thought, but you know what? I can actually do this. Yep. And there's so much power in that. It's bad, bro. I never realised how much of an impact I'll have in that way. Yeah. I grew up watching Simon Rimmer, Gordon Ramsay, like James Martin, like classic old school white brothers who I got love for.

1:04:10They're my Gs. Like, I'm actually friends with them in real life. I grew up watching them and I was inspired by them. But not everyone is inspired by them. Not everyone has infinity to them. So you're missing out on inspiring all these young people to get into the kitchen and cook because they don't feel represented. And that's what TV has the chance to do, the power to do, is to inspire people to get into things that takes them away from the rubbish they're doing. Sometimes this country complains about ethnic people or people of colour getting into the wrong lane or doing bad things or going down the wrong path.

1:04:41But if they don't have role models and they don't have people to inspire them, what do you expect? how do you being aware of all of this and you have a career that's growing like you've already achieved incredible amount but it's clear that you're you're still just like you're just taking off right so how do you manage public perception as well as your personal faith it's tough bro i'm not the best muslim in it like i always admit it like i i'm sometimes i do go off track sometimes i do drink alcohol sometimes i do things that are wrong and i repent and i repent in my own way i I always remember, I always tell myself, I'm a human.

1:05:18I'm allowed to make mistakes. I'm not going to be perfect. I'm going to get things wrong. But thankfully, I'm just doing a lot of things right, right now. I mean, right now. Like, yeah, you're in your moment. I was talking with your show sponsor, Tinder, and they wanted to know if you've ever been on a date that ended up in an unexpected way. Do you have anything like that? Oh, absolutely. Endless, endless stories. I mean, one in particular is that when Jill and I were dating, we went to a slam poetry competition, competition, which I will say, I knew nothing about slam poetry. And that's when I learned that you snap your fingers, right?

1:05:49When you applaud. I specifically went there because I wanted to impress Jill so that I can get a little, I'll say bonus afterwards, you know? But what I learned through one of the poets is that we are all artists. The poet specifically said, we are all artists. And that triggered something in me. It made me click to the point where I realized that I wanted to create. I wanted to figure out how to do that. So afterwards, we went out to eat, Jill and I, and we started talking about creating art together. And I learned from that date that, you know, the date isn't just about the other person. It's not about your physical pleasure.

1:06:25It's not about their physical pleasure. It's about what you can learn about life, about yourself. It was an unexpected outcome from a date. So wherever a date may lead, it starts with a swipe. That's why you need to download Tinder.

1:06:43I know all about Sierra Leone. Okay, man. And love it because one of my best friends grew up in Liberia. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the capital of Sierra Leone is? Freetown. Freetown. You know how it got to be Freetown. Yeah, well, I know a little bit. It was something to do with when the British colonized and it was like a passing place for the slave trade when people would come over from East Africa all the way down to West. And then I think the name just comes from the fact that it was a Freetown. Okay. I think that's part of it. What is not taught that I know is the true history is also right after the Revolutionary War all throughout the UK, what happens?

1:07:22You have a lot of men coming back from the war. Yeah. Right? They have no jobs. They're unemployed. Out of all men in terms of race, who's going to be the most unemployed? Black men. Black men. So what happened in the late 1700s? You had black men all throughout the streets of London, Birmingham, Manchester. And there were a lot of people who said, you know what? We got to get we got to get them out of here. OK. What are we going to do? I know we're going to take them. We're going to send them all to this one spot and we're going to liberate them. Right. And the reason why I think that's important in history not to be forgotten is because that not only happened in Sierra Leone, it happened in Liberia.

1:08:04Like this social engineering is wild to me. I also read about the Maroons in Jamaica coming back after slavery ended in parts of the Caribbean and going back to spread Christianity through Freetown. Definitely. And that's how you get the Creole tribe, because a lot of the descendants of the Creole tribe are from the Jamaican Maroons, which is why a lot of times people say Creole sounds like Patois. Yes. So when I say I speak Creole, a lot of people go, oh, you speak French. I'm like, nah, we speak broken English. I think like we're the only language that is African language that is connected to the Caribbean the other way.

1:08:41Like it comes from the Caribbean to us. It's mad when I looked into the history, because I always said like Sierra Leone and Jamaica are so like similar. Kin. Same vibes. Yeah, man. To this point is your father was from Lebanon. Yes. Right? My dad's parents were born in Shilam. So they come from Haris, which is the south of Lebanon, which is at the mountains and stuff. When the war was happening, a lot of them fled, and the plan was to go to America for most of them. And what happened is they all stopped in different parts along their journey to America. So some of them got to East Africa. then they go to Ceylon which is kind of like the end point and what they would do is from Ceylon go over to America or over to Brazil like there's a lot of Lebanese people in Brazil there's massive Lebanese population in Sao Paulo but then a lot of them stayed in Ceylon so my great-grandparents went over and stayed and then they built businesses there and they kind of they created a community so my grandparents were born there and they had a good life like my my my grandma went to boarding school in England.

1:09:50Because Ceylon was a British colony and an alliance with Britain, up until the war, you could come to Britain but you didn't really, I didn't think you needed a visa. I think you could just come straight to Britain. But then they implemented the visa stuff when the war started. And eventually, my dad found a way. My mum got a visa when she was four months pregnant with me. And then, that's when she came over with me. And how old was she? She was 26. Wow. 26. 26 and it was only your mother and father who came No my dad stayed Oh your dad stayed Because my dad's Lebanese Okay The Lebanese they had a different position in the war A lot of them lost all their wealth to survive And that's what happened with my dad's family Is that they was doing alright They had their business They worked in cars And when the war started Just to survive They lost everything Because they didn't want to leave during the time that my mum was like first moved over to England my dad was coming over he tried help but after time they're not together along this relationship doesn't work so by the time I was like two three they split up okay and that's when our lives completely changed because obviously my dad stopped supporting my mum my mum's now a single parent in England on her own our life like drastically changed and we go to like this like this refugee hotel it's like an old like big like mansion house but it was converted into little rooms so me and my mum stayed there for two years temporary accommodation and then we finally got moved to like a house which was in West London which is where I spent most of like my childhood growing up I used to think I used to just hate my dad because obviously my dad was in my life I used to always think why did why was I in this position it's only as I've got older as I've spent more time and my dad asking him, what was going on during the war?

1:11:41He's broken down to me, his side of the story. And my mum doesn't resent my dad. My mum got a lot of love for my dad. It's just unfortunate what happened. I can see that without question, it was your mother who shaped you. 100%. I am her. You are. And you know what was when, at the BAFTAs, when you brought her up? Yes. I think everyone was like, oh my gosh, he's got a young mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone couldn't believe how she looked. My mum was a beautiful lady. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Actually, last weekend I had a conversation with my boys, two boys, 11 and 14, around masculine traits and feminine traits.

1:12:17Yep. So do you believe that you embody both traits? Yeah, for sure. Because I was raised by a woman. I wasn't raised by a man. So there's a lot of masculine traits I don't have because it wasn't installed in me growing up. My mom is a scandalous lady and she takes care of herself. so I love I love like skincare and stuff which maybe might not be the most masculine thing but I think it's super important so like come to my house you go to my bathroom I got bed owner serum eye serum cream like do you know what I'm saying like and like I find it hilarious and obviously I'm very loving I cook I'm a like cooking is also sometimes synonymous with women in their house you know even though a lot of chefs are men like the most predominantly most successful chefs are men which is quite weird but like the trait of cooking is normally auntie grandma mum whereas me I'm the chef which is quite weird because as a guy I'm also this like grime MC who's very tough and I'm big so I'm a big lad and like I'm mandem so it's like I've always had this this balance that it's like I'm from the hood like I gotta be tough like you gotta be you've got to be a G I'm also quite a soft tender man which I get from my mum and I think nowadays compared to when I was young that is celebrated I think what we're what we're doing for young men is giving them a chance to express rather than suppress and put them feelings in the box so you having that conversation with young kids it's a convo I never had growing up I never had that convo about feminine traits and masculine traits I just followed up my friends told me and that's just what you do because we all want to be in unison.

1:14:07And I feel like young men, when it comes to what you're saying, is that they go with whatever their friends are telling them. Their friends are saying, we're going to go here and do this. That's what you do. If they say this is cool, that's what you do. Whereas now we're realising you can still be part of a group, but you can also be individual. So I have friends who are so different to me. We don't have to align on everything. We don't have to have the same traits, but we can still be great friends. Whereas I feel like before, we almost felt like to be in unison to be in a group with other men you had to align with what they liked same way it's like growing up in England it's like do you like football?

1:14:44yeah yeah I like football who do you sport? oh you sport this team oh we're gang but then you meet a guy who doesn't like football you're like what's wrong with you bro? you ain't got a team what? that's mad whereas now it's like yeah fine what do you like? I mean masculinity is a topic that always pops up you know on the show in particular the relationship that men have with each other yes in particular because what we see with all the research is that men are having fewer relationships fewer close relationships yeah and becoming lonelier okay over the years so when you think about your social circle it feels like to me though that you're very connected yeah me and my me and my we're gang man we've got a big like a big group of us we're all like we're all just we're all really close we all we all tell each other like where we're at mentally we're all we're all there for each other we all support each other I'm really lucky man I've got a really big group of like just really good friends man the fact that you just have conversation around where you are mentally yeah yeah yeah is not the standard yeah so which is quite mad Because for me, it feels normal.

1:15:58Like, if I'm going through some stuff, call the lads, man. We go sit down, go get our food. We're just, I've got a really, like, we're almost family. Me and my brothers are family. Wow. So what do you say to the person listening who doesn't feel like they have that family, but wants that, needs that in their life? I would say, don't be afraid to speak to random people. I feel like that's what the UK has, like, has definitely done to people, is that you get on a train and, like, no one speaks to each other. Like a person could be on fire in front of you And people are like Read the Metro That person's fine Are you okay?

1:16:34Yeah Like England's very like that And I feel like I feel like people that are going through that Like loneliness Or don't have that connection I would say the best thing I mean it goes back to youth work Community hubs man Type in with your local community Like volunteering Volunteering is a great way To get into a group of people you know some people they move to London and they don't have that community they don't have friendship around them and or they've taken that leap of faith and gone to a new place and they don't feel accepted I always say volunteering and going to a local community is the best way to get involved because I'm from west and in west where I'm from is uh is I'm from Harrow Road which is connected to Labber Grove and like Labber Grove is like a massive community place where a a lot of the working class come together.

1:17:23And you saw that in response to Grenfell, the Grenfell tragedy. It was the work class people that came together and helped, brought the food together and brought the people together and offered shelter. And if it's not your community hub, I would say sports is a great way to get into it. Because I have a lot of friends where me and my lads always play football together, or we box together. Sports is a great way to connect. So if it's not sports and it's not community, sometimes it's just finding people that are like-minded, that like the stuff you like and going into that whether it's like gaming or whether it's like food or whether it's fashion like I feel like that for me is the fabric of society is people's niche random things that they love connecting with people on that if you love music like go to an open mic night or sometimes it's having that confidence to step out of your comfort zone to go lean into what you love that's the hardest step I think that young people or people in general face and if there's anything any word of advice I can give to anyone listening who's looking to take a step away from what they do in everyday life and find something in their passion is you've got to take that leap of faith.

1:18:24You have to do it because at the end of the day, you're going to feel so much better. Yeah. You were mentioning many things that I think positively impact mental health. You were talking about boxing, playing sports, et cetera. Yeah. When you think about the areas that you struggle with around mental health, because we all have struggles. Yeah. What are those areas for you? I'm such a positive person that sometimes it can be overbearing. Sometimes I feel like I create this, like, false reality. Sometimes it's okay to have, like, negative emotion and sometimes it's okay to feel down and it's okay to, like, not be in the mood.

1:19:00Whereas the big zoo character I am is always up and high. Yeah? So sometimes what I realise is that I need... What someone said to me is, you need some space just to switch off and not do anything. Just chill at home. watch a film like or just switch off like sometimes i think i do too much like mentally i'm trying to i'm trying to succeed i want so much that sometimes i don't ever get time to just chill and then sometimes you burn out and i felt i've burned out before and it's not a good feeling when you think about your career and burning out what was the lowest point there was a time where i filmed for 28 days in a row no breaks I did 28 days I filmed every single day for 28 days and I before I was like I'll be fine you know I'll have my nights off no by the end I started getting nosebleeds and shit like I wasn't performing well I felt battered bruised I felt finished and I said to myself I can't do this anymore as a creative sometimes in a creative space you feel like you can't say no you can't turn down opportunity and from that I realised taking time off, switching off and being in a space where you could just not think about anything is almost as important as creating but now I've learnt sometimes the power of no is so important because if you say no sometimes it might make someone go okay we'll get back to you, we'll get you another time and you might be worth more at that time so it might actually get you more I was so afraid of like turning things down bro I was like, I work because one thing about me, people tell you, like, if you know me in the entertainment space, I work hard, bro.

1:20:45Like, I'm on it. Sometimes I've been too on it and just got so drained that I'm just like a robot, bro. That's not healthy, man. So then I stopped. I stopped doing that and started taking time off and started taking a month off. And like, in 2023, I went to Jamaica for a month.

1:21:11No better place to go. Gee, I went Kingston, then I went Ochi, then I went to Treasure Beach, which is in the corner near St. Elizabeth, and then I went to Montego Bay. So I did like a circle for the island. And I just, I mean, I did some work out there, I did some filming out there, I did some things out there. But the main chunk of it was to just relax. And I came back in September and I went hard, you know? I felt recharged, my battery. now everyone doesn't have that luxury of being able to fly to a beautiful island for a month not anyone can do that you know I work hard so I was able to enjoy in that sense but whether it's taking time off and just going to to your local park bro or just taking time off and not doing what you do it's so important to take time off and I learned that I learned that the hard way in 2022 because 2022 when I won the BAFTAs I was like I need to work even harder now but then I ended up burned out you burned out yeah bro and like Like, my team always, my team turned around and were like, Zoo, you need some time off, bro.

1:22:10And that was the first, that 2022 was the first year I took a holiday and just took time off. And then I said to myself, I'm going to do this every year. You know what's so interesting about that? In 2020, I could think that the public was probably thinking, Zoo is at the top of the world in 2022. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it sounds like that was one of the lowest moments for you. Yeah, because what it was is I got everything, everything like was amazing in terms of my work life but like personally i was very drained and you know i just come out of cold we just come out of covid and i've like i've committed myself to tv and i'm in this new space i started a Dutch company i've got so much going on so from 2022 to 2023 i was i was i worked really i worked really hard bro can we talk about relationships Yeah, let's do it.

1:23:02Are you actively looking? I just... Dating is tough right now because I'm like, I want to meet someone I can settle down for life with, and I want to have kids with them, but I need to spend enough time with them and enjoy them before we get to that space. Exactly. And sometimes you look at the watch and you're like, do I have time? Like, I can't... I can't put my finger on it. I feel like I want that, But then what I represent and what I'm doing takes a lot of my time away from like having a building with someone. And when I do try to build with someone, I had a relationship last year and we only ended up being together for a couple of months because I didn't see, I couldn't see a solid future with them.

1:23:45So I just kind of said, well, I'm out. And I feel like I kind of need to get to a point where I have to be willing to like maybe be hurt to have that with someone. because I feel like sometimes I tell myself I need a perfect partner who I can see the rest of my life with. And I don't think that's real. No one's perfect. I think you meet someone and you grow with them. Right. But in my head, I'm like, but they need to have all these traits and qualities that I can see in a woman for the rest of my life. Then I'll be with them. And that's just not realistic because I feel like those kind of people are probably already taken.

1:24:21So it's interesting. So it sounds like what you're saying is that you want to be in a relationship with someone, but you don't know if it's possible? I think it is. I just don't know with who and I don't know where I'm going to find them. Okay. Okay. So then I have to ask, are you trying to find this person? This is what I'm telling myself is that I feel like I am, but I feel like by doing that, you're not. So I feel like sometimes I've been dating and I speak to people and I meet people, but is that my pure intention? I don't know. Okay. I feel like a part of me is still just enjoying life and trying to get to know myself and I feel like I can't develop that with someone until I'm fully like ready.

1:25:09I think what helps you out a lot is that you have strong friends. Yeah. Yeah, so they allow, they fill that emotional space. They're companions. Yeah, definitely. You know what I mean? Because without them, I can imagine things could be lonely. Yeah, for sure. For you, yeah. Because I used to live with three of my friends. Two of them were the guys that I do my show with, and then one of them was someone I grew up making music with. I only just moved out, like, two weeks ago. Oh, wow. So you're living on your own for the first time. First time ever. Wow.

1:25:41Things might get lonely for you. Yeah, it's weird. Like, because I'm so used to having people in my house. I'm so used to... Someone's always in my house. Whereas now I'm going home and I'm like... The kitchen is the same. Okay? it's like that's how I left the living room like I need to clean that yeah that's wild yeah first time in my life ever living on my own I feel like I'm finally I feel like the past few months I've taken a lot of decisions to finally focus on myself and be on my own and the thing is I've got a big team and in my team I have managers and I have this I have a PA and I have a this so I have a lot of people that like literally work for me to make me be a great person yeah I feel like I've had to make a couple of decisions to actually focus myself personally.

1:26:25Good. And personally develop. And I'm doing that, man. It's good. Let's talk, because I know we've talked about everything. I want to talk about all the things that you're doing, because I think that another aspect that people don't realize is that you are an entrepreneur. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think that people might put you in the box of, okay, he's a creator. But, you know, you're a founder. Like you have companies. So when you think about the Big Zoo brand, what are all the pieces to that brand and what are you adding to it? So there's the TV stuff, Big Productions. Then there's Drip, water brand.

1:27:05My canned water. Started it two years ago with my manager and a drips expert, a guy called Paul. Drip has taken over my life. Wow, has it? Yeah, we've got a lot of stuff in the UK. We've just gone to America. Wow Okay Signed it up with the UFC Like We're doing a lot of festivals this year We're doing wireless We're doing Parklife So you know We're expanding our From the store So we've got Right now we've got WH Smith We've got Morrison's And Iceland You know Looking to get into other Supermarkets So there's so much going on in that Then we're launching A new product as well So Drip is mad Drip's like I'm actually like A boss Yes Big productions is like I'm an exec It's TV I have fun Big Zoo stuff is that I've been doing that for years whereas Drip is like new company new staff having to deal with staff having to deal with just all these new things I've never done with in my life Drip is mad and then the other side is that I run a music label called Legacy Living wow okay so we have the music label which is crazy and then I'm also part of a restaurant group and we launched a pub in Camden called The Dark Horse really so there's all these little things going on like and I'm just like I'm trying to do more I want to do more I want to expand I want to open a restaurant abroad I want to open a restaurant my own restaurant in the UK like just so but then also and then on top of all of that I do a lot of like charity work so I'm ambassador from multiple charities I try and do as much youth work as I can that's the main thing it's all of that plus not forgetting where I came from, which is the youth work stuff.

1:28:50So I still try and stay on top. And one of my managers here, she's called Laura, she's here and she gets influx of emails of like, because you appear at this and because you do this and because you... And managing all of that while still trying to be true to that is actually my hardest battle. Man, you know what? That's more expansive than I thought. It's a lot. It's a lot. Because I see you pop, like I see the music. By the way, Paid in Fullest, I like it. Thank you, bro. I like it. I thought I was going to hear Eric B and Rakim paid a full beat on that. But you know, even when you perform, you're very talented.

1:29:25Thank you. You strike me. I don't know if anyone has told you this, but the way you sound and how you perform on stage is very Busta Rhymes. All the time. Busta was up there for me because he was able to shut it down, also commercially. Exactly. All the stuff with Mariah. I mean, he's lost his voice now. You think so? His voice is battered. His voice is still there. Yeah, but it's very... Yeah. It's low. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It is low. And his chain is massive. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why his voice is so low. The chain is too big. Weighing him down. Yeah, the chain is too big.

1:30:02But, yeah, Basta, I get that all the time. Yeah, man. That's how it feels. I have a last surprise for you. Okay. Are you ready for this? Oh, my days. This is a little game. Okay. Okay, so this is someone who is talking about your songs. so you have to guess what song they're talking about okay now he's roasting you a bit though just so okay nice it's a little bit of a roast don't mind the roast all right so you so you tell me what what song is this okay hold on exudes bars hit like a motivational tv talk that got lost on the way to a grime set he's spitting life lessons like your older cousin who read one self-help book and now thinks he's a prophet the beat tries to be uplifting when it's basically a musical pat on the back and that hook it sounds like someone trying to convince their boss and themselves they didn't just win the whole project so you know a song what snoop this is me up snoop's dissing me up snoop is dissy you what what uh what what song you think that is he he's he said bars hit like a motivational ted talk that got lost on the way to a grime set Is it the struggle?

1:31:13It is Doing Right Doing Alright Yes Alright Alright That makes sense Alright this one I guarantee you got this one Alright go on Big Zoo and AJ Tracy Come through acting Like they're counting stacks But the lyrics sound like They forgot their wallet at home The tracks got that Hyped up energy But it sometimes feels like They're just rehearsing The same flex over and over Alright this could be A show itself Trust me The chemistry Is there Thank you But it's more like a casual handshake than a full-on collab explosion. Oh. Is that Big Eats? No, no, no, no. Song, song, song. Is the song called Big Eats?

1:31:51No. The songs are called Big Eats. Is it called... It's me and Trace. Yes, yes, yes. It's not No Limits. Is it Tell Man Twice? No. Come on, you got this. You got this. Is it new? Is it new? Me and AJ, what have we done? Is it Painterful? Painterful. Oh, fine. Made it full, man. We wanted to do that. It was like straight AI roasted. We were like, we got to do this. No, listen, I like that. Because you're killing yourself. You're like, you want to, you're dissing your own music in your head to find which one it is. So which one isn't that good? Which one is, ah, yeah, you got me. It's good. It's good.

1:32:30All right. So we talked about it all. There's a question that everyone gets. It's the last question. It's my favorite. it when you think through your life all the incredible conversations you've had which one stands out as the most memorable conversation who was it with and what did you learn instantly the one that comes to my frontal lobe i always think what comes here uh is my my head of year in college head of year guy called nick he stopped me when i was walking through college and he said do you you know what you're doing in life?" And I looked at him and said, nah. And he was like, what we should do something about that?

1:33:12And he made me talk to a career advisor. And then that career advisor made me go and work at the company City Year, which then made me find out what course I wanna do in uni, which then made me become a youth worker, which then led to me focusing on music. It all came from at 17 years old, Nick stopping me. I didn't even think Nick knew who I was. I didn't even think he cared about me. He was just a random head of year that I thought hated me. But he stopped me and he said, do you know what you're doing in life? Little bit of guidance. His little bit of guidance was the ripple effect for me to go and actually start my life.

1:33:52And that's all I want to repay to young people. What Nick done for me is all we need to do for them. Yes. So sometimes that young person that's lost and hasn't got no guidance, doesn't matter about your infinity to them, as long as you can give them a little flick in the right direction, you might change that person's life. That's what Nick done for me. So big on Nick. There you go. There you go, Nick. Nick, I mean, you know, it's interesting because when I ask this question, people either go to a mother-grandparent or they go to someone who was in school, like a teacher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And someone who gave them just that one line and just put them on the right...

1:34:32Literally. The right path. Yeah. You know what I want to say, too? And this is, you know, from my heart is that the first time I ever heard or saw you was actually the Grenfell video. Mad. Which I think was seven years ago. Yeah. And it was right when I got to the UK. Okay. And someone must have sent it to me. And I was like, yo, this is incredible. Look at this young man who is consciously talking about what is happening. And what's interesting is that I saw that and now I see you today and you have remained consistently you. In an industry that I see changes people in months, you've had the most profound, prolific run on TV that I've ever seen, but you've remained you.

1:35:23So my hope, my prayer is that you continue to be you because you're changing lives. You're inspiring people. You're lifting folks up. so my hope is that you not only don't change but that you're able to retain your happiness because I see that that joy and happiness gets robbed from so many people so my hope is that you're able to sustain that because I think it's your joy that's what you give to everybody thank you Rob you got it man, thank you that was epic that was epic that was epic this is another surprise for you This is specifically for you because, see, Jamaican, Sierra Leone. Yes. We're family.

1:36:08Aha. And I want to introduce you to my favorite food. Okay. So what would you guess my favorite food in the world is? What? Jamaican food. Right. But what specific Jamaican food? Is it oxtail? Actually, it is oxtail. Oxtail could go in this. Patti. There we go. There we go. All right. So. Why? Fresh. From? Have you been to this before? These Argo peoples. You know these people. I know them. You know this. This is my friend, Theresa Roberts. Okay. Who is one of the Jamaican ambassadors. Okay, man. Who owns this. I said you were coming. Eh? So let me lace you with this. Go on. Oh. Yeah, let's see.

1:36:49It's baked into... This is Curry Boat. This is Curry Boat. What's your favorite? I'm gonna go on that CG. I'm just gonna see the other... All right. I know we got spicy beef. What do you mean? It's imprinted into the tea. Yeah, yeah. I think this is saltfish. Saltfish. No, no. Aki. I got a spice beef. I'm going to go for the spicy beef. All right, I'm going to go with this. This is mine. So now, you know the origin of the patty. Is it not from Cornwall? This man knows everything. I can't do anything. No, no, no. You can. You can. I'll pretend I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, no. What are you talking about?

1:37:22Where does the patty originate from, my friend? No, no, no. All right. No, you tell me about why you thought it was Cornwall. Because I'm with you. But this is the connection between the British and the Jamaicans in terms of that colonization. Wasn't it that they brought Cornish parties over and then the yard man said, no, no, let me show you our gun and let me add some spice. This is it. You had the Portuguese, Spanish. Then you had the Brits. And then if you look at even the migration patterns is we're all more like each other than unlike each other. You know what I mean? Like there's more connection between us.

1:38:00Well, if you go to Sierra Leone and party, they're whining just like the Jamaicans. See? The food, but you know what? For Sierra Leone food, I'm not familiar with it though. It's very similar to Nigeria. A lot of jollof rice, okra stew, cassava, if we love cassava leaves. So there's different techniques, but the food is all the same. Yeah, it's all the same. All the same. They eat this stew, we eat that stew. Seven. Seasoning is really West African. Yeah. And then it kind of spread. Because like I look at fried chicken in the US. Yeah. Fried chicken in the US is that, they were frying chicken with no seasoning.

1:38:39And then it was the enslaved from the southern part of America who then introduced spices. That's mad. The history of food is mad. Like we went to Korea for the show for Rich Flavors and they were teaching us about Korean fried chicken and how you had the American army guys over there during the war. They would give out the rations. And while they would give out the rations, they'd sometimes give them their fried chicken. Sometimes they would take the fried chicken and they would like reheat it with spices and stuff. And that's what made Korean fried chicken. I had no idea. Yeah, it was just fucking mad.

1:39:16That's crazy. So it was American servicemen. Gave them the fried chicken. Gave them the fried chicken. Yeah. You know, with food, and I've noticed this with you, is I feel like it is the tool for connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ultimately, at the end of the day. When I meet people, I always say, wait, from, you know, tell me, and I say, oh, so you eat that. And then we go, how do you know that? Yeah. You know what I mean? I just say one dish from the country, instantly, conversation starts off. Being able to connect. I'm going to eat all these patties. Have you not had it? Do you not want some patties?

1:39:55big when i was gonna say big zoo i'm not i'm going to say zahair uh this this is the part where i sit here and then i say the same thing and it sounds like i'm just saying it but it honestly it is from the bottom of my heart one of my favorite conversations this was a conversation where i i personally walked away with tremendous tremendous value what do you think's your biggest take away from that. Oh my God. There's, there are too many. There's too, you know, maybe, maybe the, the, the, the biggest is that the nice guy won. The moment that he walked in, notice what he did when he, when he walked in, he shook everyone's hand.

1:40:38He introduced himself to everyone. Now, you know, we love all our guests here, but not all guests have done that. It shows how compassionate he is and how much of a true supporter and nurturer he is. So when he was that little boy on the estate looking outside and he was alone, when he talked about what I wanted, what I desired, truly what it was is he wanted to feel connected. He didn't have, he didn't know his father. He He only had his mother. And what Zaheer has done throughout his life is he has formed connections with others, and he's created platforms for others to connect. And ultimately, I think that's who he is at his heart is he's a connector.

1:41:30Oh, man. We need a part two. Yeah, big time. Yeah. You know what I love? I love when a guest, like, doesn't want to leave. But I tell you, it does hurt. As someone who's interviewing, when the interviewee walks out and says, I have more to say. It's like, oh, you could have said it.