Jo Frost On The Rise And Fall Of Supernanny

12:52Jo Frost:Okay.

12:52Paul C. Brunson:And within, I don't know, I think it was probably one or two days, I was down Oxford Street. I was in Oxford Street. I was picking up a few things down Oxford Street. I got a phone call and they said, hi, you know, it's so-and-so from blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, hi, can you just hold on a minute? Hold on. Buses are going past, you know, Oxford, you know. Oh, you know that bit there? Well, we showed it to Channel 4 and they actually want to do a TV show and they want to call it Supernanny. And I think my mouth was there. I didn't still really understand the gravitas of that, the depth of that.

13:25Paul C. Brunson:And at that moment, I didn't quite know, the production company didn't quite know what the format was going to be. But I did because it's what I did.

13:33Jo Frost:Yes.

13:34Paul C. Brunson:I was troubleshooting. I was helping families. So I remember a wonderful executive producer called Amanda Murphy. And she said to me, look, the production have asked for you to put the FB, the IFB in your ear. and they're going to want to talk to you. And I looked at her and I said, what for? And she said, well, they're going to want to talk to you whilst, you know, you're helping the family. And I looked at her and I went, why? I couldn't fathom. Why would you want to talk to me? If you're filming with a camera, why do you need to talk to me? Like, let me, I'll just do my job, right? And you just film it.

14:06You just, funny me now?

14:08Jo Frost:Yes.

14:08Paul C. Brunson:I don't know, right? I just went, why?

14:11Jo Frost:Did you refuse it?

14:12Paul C. Brunson:Yeah, I did. So I told her and I went, no, no, no, no. I don't need that. How is someone going to help me? I don't need the help. So I turned around and I said to Amanda, no, I can't do that. I'm not doing that. No. Tell them no. Like, I'm just going to go in and I'm going to help the family. But if you want to talk to me, like when I come out for a cuppa, like we can have a conversation.

14:33Jo Frost:That's when you talk to me.

14:34Paul C. Brunson:That's when you can talk to me. Yes. Right? And she was amazing because she just turned around and she said to me, do what you do. I got you. and that from another woman you know by a company that was run by men right they were like what are we going to do what are we going to do i need to know this i need the control i need to which was a big deal for them obviously but to have this strong executive producer you know amanda murphy i'm going to shout out her name to taran and say do what you do i will i will handle it do what you do was a godsend for me and I remember the first day we were helping a family called the Wood family okay the Wood the Wood family in Grantham and I hadn't got the suit yet and I was up there a couple of days before and two wonderful ladies dressmakers had put the suit together you know they were like oh we need a suit and I'm like why why do I need a suit like why do I need a suit like does a suit then make you look more professional will a suit make my words land better like why do we need a suit why why can I not dress like this right and be taken seriously you know well we want the suit to distinguish the difference between you and the family doing this i said okay first day that's it you get one day you get one day because who helps babies and toddlers and on the floor on the floor with three inch high heels you know and a pencil skirt suit yes i'm on the floor i'm i'm in there you know yes what what about your because because

16:18Jo Frost:so here from my experience being in television just so that everyone understands the breath of the success of the show, which, by the way, I believe you and this show, it's one of the few international franchises. And the show, so in over 100 markets, you probably know the number better than me, but over 100 markets.

16:42Paul C. Brunson:149 territories. I mean, yeah. As I said to you, like Barbados is like home for me, right? So, you know, I've been going for just shy of five decades. My parents were very good friends of Sir Hugh Springer, the governor general in Barbados. And so, you know, my parents knew his family. And so we were invited for the first time, you know, back when I was like seven years old. But they didn't know to the level of how, you know, compassionate I was, you know, with this being a career for myself. So there'd been some time that had gone past and like super nanny had happened. And I'm walking into the shack.

17:17Paul C. Brunson:I'm going to get some fried chicken. I'm going to have a Banks beer or, you know, I'm going to have a Mount Gay and Ronco, you know. and I hear, Joanne, we're whopping, probably super nanny, we're, you know, like from some shack down the road. It's like, that's my name, Joanne. Joanne, yeah. You know, and they don't call me Jo. They're like, Joanne, you know, they shout down the street.

17:38Jo Frost:Clips to this day. We were just out here.

17:41Paul C. Brunson:I know.

17:42Jo Frost:We have clips to this day that people watch and not just watch for entertainment, but watch to learn. Yes. And therefore apply it to their family. And then also how long the show ran for. So what I have here is that, and you tell me, because there were many incarnations of this, right? So you have here that we have 2004 to 2008. We have Super Nanny UK.

18:14Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

18:15Jo Frost:2005. Yeah, you keep me right. Do I remember myself?

18:20Paul C. Brunson:I'm like, yes.

18:21Jo Frost:2005 to 2011, we have Supernanny US.

18:25Paul C. Brunson:And then again.

18:26Jo Frost:And then again in 2020.

18:28Paul C. Brunson:Yep. I filmed in 2019. Shut down right before COVID. That was released. Okay. The year of COVID. Yep.

18:35Jo Frost:The year of COVID. And then we also have the incarnation. So we have Joe Frost Extreme Parental Guidance. Yes. We have Family SOS with Joe Frost in the US.

18:48Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

18:49Jo Frost:We have Joe Frost, Family Matters for ITV in the UK.

18:53Paul C. Brunson:Yes, Studio Show, yes.

18:54Jo Frost:Yes, we have Joe Frost, Nanny on Tour in the Netherlands and the US.

18:59Paul C. Brunson:That's right, I produced that myself as a production company.

19:02Jo Frost:And we have Joe Frost on Britain's Killer Kids.

19:05Paul C. Brunson:That's right, yes.

19:07Jo Frost:When you think back on that career, and I can imagine what you're going to say on this, because now I know you know you, right? But what are you most proud of?

19:17Paul C. Brunson:Saying yes. Having the courage. I think really just having the courage to say yes to the opportunity, because it was a beautiful opportunity and a wonderful, you know, idea, right, that the production company had thought of. I mean, the first time the first episode went out in England, I got a phone call the next day. Joe, 5.2 million people watched. Is that good then? That's what I said. Is that good then? They went, yeah. And I went, oh, great. That's great then. Okay.

20:02Jo Frost:Then you put the phone down and you picked up your tea. That's what you did.

20:07Paul C. Brunson:yeah different couple you know hey dad you know and i keep saying dad because you know i'd lost my mum at the age of of 24 and i was still living at home you know with my father so i was like hey dad he got 5.2 my dad went well that sounds like a high number i went apparently yeah apparently that's a good number you know and that year uh the year after um you know we'd won an award

20:32Jo Frost:you know the rts award for the show yes you know you don't you don't now i understand that because

20:39Paul C. Brunson:i understand the business right side of things yeah and that there are so many different intricate

20:46Jo Frost:seas in a show being green lit yes right and what that involves yes but back then in 2004

20:58Paul C. Brunson:Or I had no idea. I didn't, no, yes. You know, and that did come at a cost because I was seen as difficult. Oh, she's been a pain in the arse today. You know, like she's been so difficult, you know. Or like, you know, we, you know, the network think that it may be a great idea, you know, if you said this line. Why? Why? Like that has nothing to do with what's happening with the family though. Why would I say that? you know but because that's what they think well i appreciate that they can tell me that but why would i say that if it's not relevant to the family because at that moment paul you realize the sensibility and the importance because everybody is hanging on to every word you say

21:45Jo Frost:right that's a hell of a responsibility it is and and i want to explore this cost even even deeper and because I'm a super, I was going to say I'm a super nanny for that reason. I want to say out of the way. But because I'm a super nerd on television and reality. One thing I notice about the dates here. So let's say, let's look at 2004 to 2020, right?

22:11Paul C. Brunson:Yeah.

22:11Jo Frost:During that time, you have the rise of more and more extreme reality.

22:17Paul C. Brunson:That's right.

22:18Jo Frost:Television. I can personally attest to over a dozen pitches that I have seen where in the pitch document, the statement was like Supernanny. Right. And it was like a weekend fix this, go in for a day, 48 hours with this person. And it was always the basis was always Supernanny. So absolutely, you created this benchmark, if you will, in history, which is, is that something that you are proud of?

22:51Paul C. Brunson:Absolutely.

22:52Jo Frost:Okay.

22:52Paul C. Brunson:I can't take credit for that alone. You know, my crew is my family. You know, back then, one season was 23 episodes. I was on the road 48 weeks a year. Two weeks off at Christmas, two weeks off in the summer. like it was a hard grind and they got to a point where they couldn't do UK anymore because the amount of episodes that were coming in you know from uh America you know um and and that sort of roster of how things were you know on the network and it's a champagne problem wow you know don't

23:30Jo Frost:get me wrong wait I'm sorry Joe so you you were saying that what was the demand what too heavy in the U.S.?

23:36Paul C. Brunson:I mean, it's not, it is what it is. You know, it's just that back then, like, you know, like now you may have network commit to sort of 10 episodes, you know, or six or eight.

23:51Jo Frost:Right.

23:52Paul C. Brunson:Or they may even turn around and say, we need to see a pilot first.

23:55Jo Frost:True.

23:56Paul C. Brunson:You know, I don't know what that feels like because, you know, if I show up and there's an idea and somebody loves it, then they're not piloting. They're like, well, we already know she's a global success, like 20. straight away 22 look at that and so the success you know of the show i owe to the families that were brave enough to come forth yes right and my hand was in that casting because it was very important that i was not getting families that just wanted to be on a show fair fair what family that would really want to help and then your crew you know because they're who you're spending your time with you know that they're with you and then there's your kind of inner circle those that are traveling immediately with you because they go everywhere where you are right and then again those that support you outside of that which is your family your friends right those that are close to you yes so when there are moments that are difficult you know there are moments when you know i've gone into family's homes and that first day is it's been heart-wrenching and i've closed the door.

24:59Paul C. Brunson:I'm okay. See you tomorrow. I close the door. Just broke down in tears. You know, those moments, you know, those moments are tough. They're tough. And I know that being vulnerable in front of families, allow them to see that you're human and that they're human and that we're all trying to do the best that we can and then there are moments when you have to be professional yes because you're there to do a job to help them you know people don't people you know it's really bizarre because you know when people have seen me work professionally yes under you know the super nanny show they see the taxi they see me working professionally they see the suit they see the glasses and let's be honest when people are asking me into their home it's not for a cup of tea and a slice of lemon cake it's like shit has hit the fan we need you to help us we're in a very bad place but what people don't see with hours because i spend 200 hours with a family yes that gets condensed into 42 minutes they don't see the moments that i'll pick you know one of the mums up and throw over my shoulder you know i've laughed with a family so hard where I was asking them to implement this technique together.

26:20Paul C. Brunson:It was about them working as a couple. I laughed so hard I fell off the chair. Like I lost my balance and fell off the chair. You know, I remember a family saying to me, as soon as I opened the door, they said, would you like a cup of tea? And I said, do you know what? A Scot should be really good.

26:35Jo Frost:And I can see you actually wanting it. Jo, what was the hardest moment for you in terms of most challenging family?

26:44Paul C. Brunson:There have been many. There have been many challenging moments when, you know, hundreds of families have been helped on these different shows. So to pinpoint one, I really couldn't. But I do know that, you know, when you see children hurting, that hurts my heart. that hurts my heart when the children are almost their spirits are almost crushed because of how the parents are raising them and their parents have their own trauma and their parents have their own issues that you need to spend time talking to them with helping them holding them cradling them and then there are moments that are really difficult when I've been filming.

27:34Paul C. Brunson:You know, those moments are difficult. I remember getting a phone call from... I'm going to well up now. I remember getting a phone call from a young lady, a grandma, a grandma who had lost her daughter to breast cancer. Okay. And she had a young son, and that young son had cancer. and he loved watching the Supernanny shows. He loved watching the shows and he only had several days to live. And the grandma reached out because she said, I'm just wondering if you could speak to my son, Chase. He loves your shows, but he's dying, you know, and my heart is beating as I'm saying this. I just feel, and I did, I called him, you know, and he said this to me I love watching your show Super Nanny and you really help the families and I love what you do and you talk to the children and you love the children and when I die will my mummy be there?

28:46Paul C. Brunson:Will my mummy be there? Will she be there to meet me? Will she be there? Will I see her when I die? and I just paused for a moment and said, Chase, you know like when you used to go to school and you know like when the bell rings and it's like end of a school day and like you know that you're going to go home now and you know like when the teacher says okay and they walk you out the corridor and your mummy's there and she's waiting for you and she's got a drink and a snack. I said, it can be just like that. Mummy's gonna be there. Right there. Right there. He said, that's good to know.

29:38Paul C. Brunson:What do you say? Yeah, I don't know.

29:40Jo Frost:I have chills with you saying that. It's like, yeah, what do you say?

29:45Paul C. Brunson:And I got off the phone and I cried. I cried. I need... I need... I need a moment. you know, because I would never have the earpiece, but, you know, I'd have a mic, right? I'd be mic'd, so I could, I need 10 minutes. I'd already pulled plug to talk to Chase, but pulled back in. I'd say, I need five. I need five, okay. You know? Yes, yes.

30:16Jo Frost:It's tough. It's tough. Your love for children, where do you believe that that comes from? What's the source of that?

30:26Paul C. Brunson:But I'm an old soul. Yes. Just like Kingston, he's an old soul.

30:32Jo Frost:Yes. Yeah. My son is an old soul.

30:34Paul C. Brunson:He's an old soul. Yes. From what I've seen.

30:37Jo Frost:Very much so.

30:37Paul C. Brunson:Right? So it's this innate, profound, intuitive responsibility. responsibility. I really feel that to make sure that every child has the opportunity to be raised in an environment that will be safe and kind because at the end of the day they're going to become adults and they are going to shape the world and we've only got to look at leaders in this world and the decisions that they make and question what kind of an upbringing did they have and who were their parents and how were they shaped and so that love I don't know exactly where that comes from and I'm okay with not knowing either I just know I have it yes I just know that I have that love and I get pushback you know people say to me you know they say to me but you don't have children yourself now I have millions that's how I feel I feel I have millions like it's not I don't have children so your children are your business every child is my business I think every child should be your business I think children of the world are our business as adults we have a responsibility as adults to take care of our children and to protect them and to equally give them opportunities in the world and I think if we understood that we'd have less trauma, we'd have a kinder world.

32:19Jo Frost:What did you learn about love from your mother and father?

32:25Paul C. Brunson:My parents loving me meant that I was able to be who I am now. You know what I mean? Like, for example, like, I'm opinionated, you know, and I have values, you know, And so I think their love was basically not just providing and making sure I'd have a roof over my head and fed, but giving me the space to just grow up being who I was unapologetically.

32:57Jo Frost:This makes perfect sense if you look at who you are as an adult. You are a representation. And I always say this, and you tell me if you like this, because this is your field, is I feel like we are a representation of the love of our parents. and your parents what they did is i can see that they taught you how to be unapologetic they taught you how to how to how to be vocal about what it is that you value and your beliefs

33:26Paul C. Brunson:yes very much so and they're very strong with with their values and their beliefs as well but in altruism as well in charity too yes you know like we grew up you know seeing that you know with our parents the importance of you know you say it takes a village but you know it's about community right it's about your neighbors you know I grew up in a time in the 70s where we saw that in the 80s where you know neighbors helped one another and I remember at Christmas time you know and throughout the year but at Christmas time you know my parents were the ones that were doing things for the aged and for the neighbors and making sure that they were good at this time where so many people can feel alone, you know, and they're probably one of the youngest couples with kids at the time down the street, you know.

34:16Paul C. Brunson:So, you know, my brother and I learned from a very young age what that meant to give, to be part of community, to have, you know, to give charity, to be selfless in that way, to think of community. You know, we were raised that way. And I think that balance of compassion as well as mental resilience and strength as well.

34:40Jo Frost:As well, yes.

34:41Paul C. Brunson:Yeah.

34:41Jo Frost:But then how?

34:42Paul C. Brunson:The balance of that. The balance is there. Because you can't, you know, we live in a world where that can be very polarized, you know, one or the other. And I think that my teachings sit in the middle of that.

34:55Jo Frost:Yes. Yes. You know, Jo, you mentioned something that I just want to go back to. Yes. Because I think we should unpack it a bit. And that is, is you being so unapologetic came at a cost. Specifically, what was that cost?

35:13Paul C. Brunson:It came at the cost of meaning that every day I would have to explain over and over again why the integrity of my decisions would benefit the family. Okay. And that it was important to me that in doing the right thing, the show, I knew the show would be successful in doing the right thing and not cutting corners and making sure that the families were not in any way exploited. There would be no, well, the crew break at one, so we'll just keep rolling until one. It'd be like, no, the kids need to eat. It's 12 o 'clock. last time they had breakfast the mother told me was at eight i see it so everything ran accordingly to make sure that family were never put out i see never put out i see you know so you know that that comes at a cost when time is money you know and you're working as you know there's a 10 hour day or a 12 hour day or what that looks like and how much money it costs to build in a budget line for a show and then how many episodes and then you know what that the impact of that on a network and then the airspace for that and the branding and you know you you realize that

36:31Jo Frost:do you believe right do you believe you were labeled as difficult yeah yeah absolutely i know

36:38Paul C. Brunson:so i know so i was labeled difficult because when i had the opportunity to explore other opportunities with other production companies they would say oh god you're nothing like what i've heard interesting what and I would say what do you mean by that oh we heard that you're really difficult you know that you're troublesome and you're very difficult because I have a vision because I know what I need to do to help the family because I won't say what you want me to say or you can't control me in in a way that you wish that you could like i'm doing it's a win-win you know it's a it's a win-win because the family are getting helped the children have a healthy environment this couple like i still hear from a couple but when i walked in they they served me divorce papers they went no pressure but if this don't work we're out like we just got to that point and i'm like clearly not out out right you've heard that saying right yeah you've heard that saying you're not out right yeah you know you're clearly not out out right was there ever a family

37:44Jo Frost:that you just couldn't help that you had to just walk away from um

37:52Paul C. Brunson:no i think i've helped every family to the best of my ability but what i can't control is what they choose to do after they've seen how it can be and the choices that they make beyond that and I think it's very I think it would be rather egotistical for us to sit in this position with the roles that we have and the credentials and go oh yeah I'll fix that family yes I don't fix a family I guide a family I educate a family and hope that what I'm giving them is enough for them to trust me to allow me the privilege of helping them to transform their life in a way that's just night and day for them yes you know fix families yes you know but you know that in television those titles they're so archaic you know fix state that we don't do that yes yes you

38:55Jo Frost:know that's not what we do yeah no i agree you know you're you're you're very you're being very eloquent in describing the tension I think between uh television personalities or talent should I say with integrity right uh versus those with without one thing that I'm curious about though is that in that rise between say 2004 and 2020 reality television definitely got louder bolder yes um Yes. And did you feel any pressure from the production company at all, any pressure from the network to go louder, go bolder, pull families in that were more extreme?

39:39Paul C. Brunson:No, I think I didn't feel the pressure because in my contract, I had cast in approval. oh look at that that was a deal breaker for me if i didn't have casting approval that interesting interesting because it has to be real you have to genuinely go i need a help because because when those families are vulnerable and they are trusting their lives in your hands they're not just shaping their own family but millions who are watching in the corners of morocco somewhere in australia in a little pocket village in ireland and it's not me that's the magic it's that family because those families are watching that family on television they're rooting for them sometimes in the beginning they might go i don't know if i really like her yeah I don't know, man.

40:46Paul C. Brunson:He sounds a little bit shady. Seriously, can he not see? But in the end, you see what I see in the beginning. What was important for me is that what I saw in the beginning of a family, when I was there for the first five minutes, ten minutes, is what every family saw in the end when they watched.

41:06Jo Frost:I see. And so, for me, I had casting approval.

41:11Paul C. Brunson:That was very important because I needed to keep the integrity of the families that genuinely needed help and not a family that thought, oh, I'm going to be on television.

41:25Jo Frost:Yes.

41:25Paul C. Brunson:And all I have to do is just act out and be performative. Right.

41:31Jo Frost:Now, you are hitting on, I think, the number one issue with reality television right now is intention. I think we've almost reached a point where the audience just assumes that whoever lands on a reality television show, the intention is more brand power, more followers, more commercial deals.

41:53Paul C. Brunson:Can you blame them? But truthfully, can you blame them? The reality reckoning that you speak of has to be a sensibility that starts at the top for those that make decisions, you know? And it means that as long as there's greed, that won't happen. It has to be about what are we making? What's the intention of why we're making it? And I think there should be a duty of care officer on anything, on anything that involves transformation and change. There has to be. For me, that was. I was the duty of care officer I made sure that Every Individual and as a family As a whole that that Boundary was there and yeah It would cause friction That absolutely would cause friction You know I remember one time An executive producer put the camera down Told all his crew to get out He said everybody get out Because I said no To something I was like that wouldn't be right for the family And so So, you know, he wanted to pull rank.

43:08Paul C. Brunson:So he called all the crew out. And so they respectfully listened to the showrunner and they all left. I carried on working. I'm like, hey, I just want to let you know that I'm going to carry on. So, like, you're not going to get any of this on camera if you decide to stay out and sulk. So I'll just let you know. Carry it on. Like, I'm not doing that.

43:29Jo Frost:That's unapologetic.

43:31Paul C. Brunson:Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah.

43:35Jo Frost:You know, also, I think when women are unapologetic.

43:42Paul C. Brunson:It's different. Come on, let's be honest.

43:44Jo Frost:It's a whole nother label, whole nother reaction. How did you manage that?

43:52Paul C. Brunson:I found it tough emotionally. And as a strong woman, that's not right. you know um as a leader in this industry i want to support women to feel empowered in the space to pick up and other women to truthfully recognize that they don't have to act like men as women in power right but to to uplift to empower other women in this industry and to support women who like myself are creative and do have a vision and do want to do good and what that looks like okay you know and it means that you have to be incredibly brave because you're not just going up against one person you're probably going up against the panel or board of what that looks like and what does that mean to you you know if i'd have been in a position where somebody said actually no we can't do that you know i'd have come home i'd still help families i'd have still been helping families yes yes you know yes just not on the level that i am yes i'd still be making a difference in one baby's life in one single mother's life in one father who'd been widowed in one teenager's life yes you know each family at a time one family at a time one child at a time just not on this but you know just not on this massive level that i have and i'm grateful for that because i think that is the power of television that truly is the but like this show right it's the power of using television in a really productive positive way yes that boom that yeah and now because impact doesn't have to be massive it doesn't you know it can be one person Yes.

45:50Paul C. Brunson:Right.

45:51Jo Frost:Yes. Yeah. And I know you get it all the time. And so, you know, you walk down the street and you have that one person that says that moment that you were in changed my life. And that's like that's the the food for your soul.

46:04Paul C. Brunson:Yeah, that's a lovely way of saying it because it is spiritually rewarding. Yes. Like, you know your purpose, you know why you're doing what you're doing, you know. And they've been, you know, it wasn't always that easy for me not to receive the compliments and the stories. But when I first was doing the show, people just rush. It doesn't matter if I was in a supermarket or on a train, just rush. and like put their arms around you and grab you and give you a kiss and and i you know naturally i'm quite an introvert you know i'm very focused and passionate about the work that i do but if there's karaoke for love i've got you on not getting me out i'm like no i'm all right i'm fine i'll just i'll watch i'll have a rum and coke and i'll just watch you know that's that's not going to be me i'm not going to be up doing the karaoke you know so like kudos to jill exactly Kudos to Jill doing karaoke.

47:03Jo Frost:But by the way, I didn't realize this about you. I think there's a lot of similarities where I'm a massive introvert. It's a massive introvert. And it's one of those where I think we can both step into the environment.

47:17Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

47:17Jo Frost:I think that a lot of people confuse introversion and extroversion.

47:21Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

47:22Jo Frost:Because it truly is about where you source your energy. But you can be an introvert but also be confident.

47:30Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

47:30Jo Frost:You know, being an introvert doesn't mean you're shy.

47:33Paul C. Brunson:Yes. And being an introvert in, you know, what you're comfortable, what makes you comfortable in the environments that you're in. Yes. You know, and so I think that's something you learn to get better at as well because you're not just born knowing that. You know, you start to realize your own sensitivities and, you know, energy. I mean, really, if you, you know, really, everything's about energy.

48:02Jo Frost:How, you know, we've been talking about really how you dealt with adversity within the production, right? But how did you deal with critique and complaints from the public?

48:18Paul C. Brunson:I hope this don't sound rude, but that's their opinion.

48:24Paul C. Brunson:and I don't mean that rudely but like everybody's entitled to have their opinion of what they think or feel about me and my work um I just know the work I'm doing with the family and the difference that that's making and that's

48:43Jo Frost:what matters yeah but does it ever but but but does that ever get to you because you know and And I've said this a few times on this podcast is that I have – I think I've done a much better job at not listening to the critics, right, and not taking it to heart. A much better job. But still, I would say I'm impacted by critique. I'm impacted by the wild storyline about something. I think it's because – well, it's actually now with my boys, there's another reason that's been added. So the first reason was I want to be – I love my work. I feel like I'm good at what I do.

49:32Paul C. Brunson:Yeah, yeah.

49:33Jo Frost:And I want to be considered good at what I do. However, with my boys, what's happened is that when you have critiques that are with no basis, you know.

49:48Paul C. Brunson:Specifically about your boys? Oh, no, no.

49:51Jo Frost:Specifically about me.

49:52Paul C. Brunson:Talking about you as a father, you mean?

49:54Jo Frost:Oh, no. It could be just about me generally. You know, being on television, it could be this guy is a buffoon, right?

49:59Paul C. Brunson:Okay, okay, yeah.

50:00Jo Frost:And then if my boys see that, that becomes an irritant to me because what's good is we have conversations around it. But the point is, is that it hurts them. It hurts them to see the person that they love be targeted. Right. So that's why. So you're protective over them and how emotionally they will feel in the process of reading that about you.

50:29Paul C. Brunson:But the more confident I believe you continue to become as a parent and the deeper the emotional intimacy that you have with your boys, it becomes. They can't touch that. Yes. They won't be able to touch that. so right now you're coming from a place as a father where you are protective and then possibly being influenced by an external outsource isn't that every parent right now with social media being worried that their teenagers are going to be influenced by what one person or another says about how they look how they dress how they communicate how they're showing up and And I'm just going to suggest and put it out there that I believe that you'll get to a point where the work that you're doing, the external validation won't matter anymore.

51:36Wow. So you've reached the point where external validation doesn't matter.

51:42Paul C. Brunson:I have nothing to prove. I'm here because I know why I'm here. I know the work that I want to do. I know where I want to elevate. I'm so ready. There is a lack of resource, funding and training, not just in the UK, but in America as well. And Australia and many other countries. Like we need to meet the demand.

52:05Jo Frost:Yes.

52:06Paul C. Brunson:We need to meet the demand. The government has stripped families in the UK for two decades of resources. how do you think a society is going to show up how do you think they're going to show up you know we have to provide we have to start grassroots up we have to have leaders that are empathetic and can put in systems and structure and funding so that we can train you know i i have young predominantly young women that say my god your work inspired me to work in nurseries and to go into child care and to be a social worker and to become a psychologist good i'm pleased to hear that like you know that's that's what we need because we're hurting as a society we are

53:03Paul?

53:04Jo Frost:Hey, where are you? I'm headed to Jamaica. Oxtails are calling. I'm headed to vacate. What's up? No, no, no, no, Paul. You can't get on that plane. What? The people of LA need to talk.

53:19Jo Frost:I'll be right there.

53:26Jo Frost:I made it. Paul? I'm going to go. I'm going to go. Come on. I know we're in LA, but the sunglasses, they've got to go. Come on, we have what to do. Look, We Need To Talk is taking a trip to LA. Same set, new voices, and conversations you've never heard before. So subscribe if you haven't already and drop a comment below, who do we need to talk to? We just might make it happen. Gosh, I can see it already.

53:58Jo Frost:This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream.

54:26Paul C. Brunson:This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

54:54Jo Frost:Reese's peanut butter cups. They go perfectly with music, podcasts, and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds. Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you. Hello. Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to. I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's. Ashley, go back to the nature sounds. nice yeah it's really nice uh we reached out to our community let them know that that you were going to be here and many questions were sent in oh so really you did that so can we can we can we go through some questions absolutely all right so so now i want to ask you if you know

55:43Paul C. Brunson:what this is right here your suggestion box oh for the kids all right so so so so this this is

55:54Jo Frost:this is your idea so if you can to tell everyone what's the importance of a suggestion box so it

56:01Paul C. Brunson:gets used in in different ways but predominantly um it was to bring to bring children to a place that felt it difficult to articulate emotionally what they needed from their families, an opportunity to write that down. So if it were the older children, perhaps eight, nine and ten, if they wanted to voice and they felt that doing so they were shut down or a tone was received in a way that really didn't give them the capacity to be vulnerable, they would write it on a card. Now, for the adults, I'll call it the babble box.

56:39Jo Frost:Babble box.

56:40Paul C. Brunson:Right. And so parents will have the opportunity during the week that there would be no excuse of, oh, we're passing ships. We just don't have time. And I'm like, if you don't have time to talk to your partner, you're going to be in big trouble, not just in the marriage, but the way that you raise your children, too, because that's the foundation. Right. In Covid, we had this. We had my family struggling. My marriage is falling apart. the children are ruining it. My response has always been children just highlight what a couple need to work on, right, within themselves in that marriage so that they can get it right for their children.

57:20Paul C. Brunson:They're like a Sharpie pen. They're like the highlight. The children bring that up. And at that moment, if we're mature enough, we receive that.

57:30Jo Frost:I see. So what we've done is somewhat of that. What we've done is these are not suggestions, but questions. But they have all gone into the box. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to open up this box here. I knew I was going to have a problem opening it. I have it here. All right. So I'm going to take all these questions here. We're going to put them here. I'll put this back and we're going to have a good time. This is going to be fun.

57:59Paul C. Brunson:They answered. They wrote in.

58:01Jo Frost:This is going to be cool. So we are going to sit back, relax, and we are going to go through these questions.

58:09Paul C. Brunson:All right.

58:11Jo Frost:So get ready. Get ready, Jo. First question is, do you have any regrets about Super Nanny?

58:18Paul C. Brunson:No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In doing the show? Yes. Absolutely not.

58:25Jo Frost:Love it. Absolutely, because I was a big part of that success.

58:30Paul C. Brunson:Because I was the show. It was me on the show helping the families. Own it.

58:35Jo Frost:Own it, Jen. Own it. Own it.

58:36Paul C. Brunson:You know, in a very confident way. And I'm grateful for all the help and the support.

58:40Jo Frost:This one could be a question that I would have for you as well.

58:44Paul C. Brunson:Okay.

58:44Jo Frost:What's your advice on navigating screen time with children?

58:51Paul C. Brunson:I know that we have to hold a standard and hopefully, as we speak, laws that change that so that we hold big tech and companies responsible. But I want to say this, and I think it's going to be discomfort for a lot of families. Parents have got to take ownership of that. They have to. meaning we can't just say oh well our child's using the screen you know that's what they do now i'm paul i'm watching six month old babies holding phones yeah restaurants all the time you see it all the time i would encourage and suggest strongly to so many parents to understand that when you choose to put a phone in your six month nine month two-year-old's hands what you are doing is prohibiting their development you are and that's not to take away the fact that parents need a break but what do you think parents were doing before 2010 it's okay for children to cry it's okay for children to be unhappy it's okay for children to behave the way they did their children you know I I strongly want to encourage parents to recognize that a lot of damage is being done you know so so how are we going to look at how we limit screen time right with algorithms and safety safeguarding and also recognizing that these shows are made differently right they they design differently flick flick flick flick flick like vegas ping ping ping ping right and how are we going to look as a family when they're appropriate to use how long we use them for and the dialogue that we're going to have before we give consent for our children to have them and most parents will say to me i don't want my kids to get left out i'm worried about my children being left out you know and that cannot be that cannot be the excuse of why then we throw our children into rooms we would never if they were just out on the street because we're leaving our children underprotected and yet in the real life we're being overprotective like trust me my kids wouldn't have had any social media until they're at least 17 i would do it yes do you um i know

1:01:18Jo Frost:australia uh has the 16 and under god i pray uk legislation is is that what do you would you like to see that in the uk i pray right now as we talk that is being considered you know but i don't like

1:01:32Paul C. Brunson:That sounds like lawyer language, doesn't it? It is. It's being considered.

1:01:35Jo Frost:Yes.

1:01:36Paul C. Brunson:You know, it will be considered. No, don't consider it. Do it. Do it. You know, protect.

1:01:43Jo Frost:Yes.

1:01:43Paul C. Brunson:Protect your children in your country. You know, there'll be a lot of parents that will say, oh, we don't want a nanny state. We don't want to be told how to raise, you know, our children. But we're caught between a rock and a hard place. because if you're in in my position then i'm helping a lot of families right now they're not even understanding what their responsibility is you know at the same time there are also parents that are exploiting their children and performative i coined the phrase you know performative parenting where it's all an act so that you can earn money you know from social media what do you think that's doing to your children yes you know on this topic uh to me this is interesting because i don't want to seem like i'm coming from an elitist position yes on it but i know of many parents who

1:02:41Jo Frost:provide a presentation yes it's performative parenting yeah um and i i think that the The challenge is that you see that and then what happens is the bar now for how you convey your parenting style on social media, it increases.

1:03:02Paul C. Brunson:And it keeps leveling up to the point where we're at a place where, no. And it's not real.

1:03:08Jo Frost:And it's not real. You know, and what does it look like when you put a screen in the hands of an eight month old, when we know that the

1:03:24Paul C. Brunson:brain is being, the architecture of the brain and the development of the brain is being built in the first five years. you're going to change the wiring of that brain and then you're going to down the road see what we've seen what we're seeing now we have a public health crisis right now that's not just headlines we do have children that cannot sit through a five minute good night story. We have children who are having outbursts, emotional outbursts, because they are soothed by a screen. And so now, if your first point of reference is school, how can somebody clearly distinguish whether this child has ADHD due to the fact that it may be genetic or environmental

1:04:25Jo Frost:factors because they show up very similar yes they show up very similar and and that's the

1:04:34Paul C. Brunson:point that i'm trying to make and i'm old enough and i've been in this industry long enough this parental game and i've seen it come around twice i've seen this is the second time i've seen it come around now goodness where we had you know where we had parenting uh that was very strict and then very lenient and soft and then coming strict and now soft again. You know, timeouts were demonised. You know, I modified the 1900s timeouts.

1:05:09Jo Frost:Yes.

1:05:09Paul C. Brunson:You know, nothing like that. But again, blanket social medias, if timeouts were demonised, but they were the wrong thing to do. And yet we have to, as the adult, have a calmness, an authority that exudes safety, emotional safety for our children. Yes. And there are times when your children, and I received this a lot and it's got worse since the last 10, 12 years of more phones being handed over to young children, emotional outbursts. you know parents said my kid spits at me and punches me in the face and smacks me in the face and kicks me you know you have to have some reset some reset that allows a child at that moment to sit in this space and to recognize that sometimes less is more you don't say anything at that moment you're just going to exasperate it you're just going to add fuel to the fire at that moment

1:06:19Jo Frost:there has to be a reset and and your modification on the timeout is that the the step yeah yes or a

1:06:25Paul C. Brunson:space or a space you know at the time when you saw supernan it was put on a step right it was a step or a mat or or it could be if you were in a living room it might have just been that chair you know um to to reset but again the blanket message went out there as um oh it's abandoning that's not abandonment being in the same room and three feet away there's a space there for a child to sit there and you're here that's not abandonment you know I think we've got to a point where we've really got to be careful about the language that we're using oh yeah it's extreme

1:07:01Jo Frost:you know uh so in disclosure uh for myself and my wife we use timeouts or should I say we used We have a 15-year-old now. No more talking about us. But we use them profusely. We use them and found them to be very effective.

1:07:22Paul C. Brunson:Because you were emotionally intelligent with your children too. And you see, if you are a parent who is not yin and yang, right? So my methods, you know, call it the Frost method, right? Okay. The the the frost method is to be able to emotionally connect with your child, but to be grounded in your communication so that you can instill healthy boundaries to reset the circumstance at the time. You cannot keep thinking to yourself, oh, I'm going to do a timeout. I'm going to keep doing a timeout to control the child, to get them to do something. A timeout will not teach a child how to use a knife and fork properly.

1:08:06Paul C. Brunson:Practice will.

1:08:08Jo Frost:So what are the steps to an effective timeout? The steps to an effective timeout is to recognize first and foremost your values, your family values, understanding what's a deal breaker for you.

1:08:26Paul C. Brunson:So know your values first. What's acceptable? What isn't? OK, as parents raising your children and teach your children the importance of connecting and understanding what it looks like to be kind to another human being, what it looks like to have manners and etiquette and sit at a table, to be considerate of friends when they come around to play. connect with your kid first with your child first teach them and then when you see the behavior that's been um crossed the the the rule that's been broken because boundaries are about us right you uphold your boundary and upholding that boundary may look like this is unacceptable this is not okay and at this moment you know we're going to be doing a timeout so i always teach families to give a child a warning first right because it allows a child to make a decision now some parents will say and some experts will argue well they they don't really know they don't know how to make that decision but i think we underestimate children greatly because i know children that exactly know how to get what they want because they've been taught by their parents yes right yes and they're young yes and they're young yes right and then oh my child they just can't sit down for five minutes.

1:09:57Paul C. Brunson:Have you ever watched a child sit down five minutes for a chocolate lolly?

1:10:00Jo Frost:All the time.

1:10:02Paul C. Brunson:All the time. You know, like we underestimate children. So the steps are a warning, calmly, right, at eye level. And we let go. We let go of that. We've said to them, we don't want you to climb on the tops of the counters, of the kitchen. It's dangerous. You need to get down. You need to stop doing that. Okay, that's enough.

1:10:22Jo Frost:And Jo, why is eye level important?

1:10:23Paul C. Brunson:Because I believe the body language speaks more so than sometimes what we're saying. So I want alignment. I want what you say to align with how your body is. So the importance of body language and the integrity of your word must be in alignment. What I want children to feel is the sense of calm authority. Because we're there to guide our children.

1:10:48Jo Frost:Okay. Okay.

1:10:49Paul C. Brunson:You know, I want them to sense that like, oh, you know, mommy said I can't do that.

1:10:56Jo Frost:Okay.

1:10:56Paul C. Brunson:You know, in the same way, well, she said I could do that. The integrity of your word.

1:11:01Jo Frost:Just on that note, too, is you talked about the importance of your child always feeling safe in your presence. Something that I'm hoping that this goes away as quickly as possible, but it still seems that it exists in many places of the world. is spankings, beatings, slabbing, etc. Yes, I'd like it to be banned.

1:11:27Paul C. Brunson:It is banned in other countries, Scotland and Wales and other places in the world. I would like the UK to ban spanking, smacking children. They may be 18 months, two years. They are a whole human being. If we did that to another adult, there would be severe consequences for doing so. And so why are we in a space where we're even having a discussion about a parent who has the privilege to raise another human in this world to hit, to hit them? That's about compliance and control. We already know. We know the evidence out there. We've got the science out there. We know enough of the damage that that can cause in the relationship.

1:12:15Paul C. Brunson:I would love to see that law changed in Parliament. And I do know that there has been action last year with respects to that coming up in the Houses of Commons and in Parliament about banning that. And I would like to see that continue. Yes. So we get to a place of that.

1:12:37Jo Frost:I'm right with you. I'm right with you. All right. Next question is, what do you say to the people who question you giving parenting advice when you do not have children?

1:12:51Paul C. Brunson:I don't. Well, does a doctor need to have cancer to treat cancer? you know again it again it's very it's it's a very sort of egotistical standpoint that you have to give birth to a child to be able to have any say in what is good for another human being and how they are raised you know um what does that say for those that adopt children in the world for those that have you know haven't biologically given birth you know what what does it say about those those parents yes so you know again they're entitled to their opinion um but i i see it more as defense i you know i see it more as sort of talking and becoming a mirror and then people are just sort of intellectually lazy and find in a negative response to that, right?

1:13:56Jo Frost:Yes. Just a few more. All right.

1:14:00Jo Frost:If, this is a great one. If Super Nanny launched.

1:14:05Paul C. Brunson:You see what I mean? They're all about Super Nanny. It's like, that's the badger, you know, the badger aware. Not that I mind it. I'm like, but you know what? It's the people. You can't ask me.

1:14:14Jo Frost:It's what the people call me. So if Super Nanny was launched this year.

1:14:21Paul C. Brunson:If Super Nanny was launched this year. Yeah, this was the first year. That would make a lot of people happy. Let me tell you. They're like, come back on TV. Come back on TV. We need you back on TV. I'm like, I would love to come back on television. I would love to help families. You know, the likely chance of that show being called Super Nanny is extremely low. But it's the work. You know, Super Nanny's become a verb. Yes. Right? It's a verb now, right? Yes.

1:14:45Jo Frost:So just the concept, though, but if Supernanny launched this year, what would look different?

1:14:51Paul C. Brunson:What would look different? If the concept of what I do, right? So you're not talking about the Supernanny format. You're talking about the work that I do, using Supernanny as a verb, right? So, you know, if I came back on screens helping families, how different would that be?

1:15:11Jo Frost:Yes.

1:15:13Paul C. Brunson:it would be grounded in the staple of what people still want from me right but you would see different circumstances you know we've evolved I mean we've had recessions we've had covid you know families are exhausted they have burnout we have technology I mean things have changed you know parenting has evolved it's different I don't think parenting is any harder I don't think parenting is any harder. I think what's made parenting as a verb more difficult is the lack of what we have in place, the resources, the system to help families. Okay. Right? But, you know, I've been doing this a long time and I wouldn't say like, oh, it's much more harder now.

1:16:04Paul C. Brunson:Much because raising children has always been challenging. you know I just think that when you don't have systems in place and when you don't have the resource when you have been strict to things it's been very different all right if you've made it

1:16:18Jo Frost:this far I know you're loving the conversation so please do me one small favor hit that bell icon join our community thank you I think we have two more that's it okay oh this is a great one What is the difference between discipline in the UK versus the US? So, and this is discipline on the child.

1:16:41Paul C. Brunson:What I've recognized as a Brit living in America is that there seems to be an influence around religion and how parents discipline their children. And my religion is family. you know and politically what's important to me is that family values are not hijacked by any party you know I think it's important that we all stand by strong family values and standards in how we raise our children like it's different when you really live here like I have to say goodbye to my child and realise that shit my kid might not come home today. My kid might not come home today because my kid might get shot dead by another child.

1:17:41Paul C. Brunson:Like, I'm just going to stop there. I'm just going to stop there because we will talk for another couple of hours as what that looks like of how unsupported the black American man or woman is as a parent, right? You know, I'm married to a black American man, you know, and I've witnessed that on him. I've seen that personally. You know, that's a whole other comeback and it's a whole other conversation, Paul.

1:18:18Jo Frost:That's a 10-part episode right there.

1:18:21Paul C. Brunson:Yeah.

1:18:22Jo Frost:Yeah, it's a 10-part episode.

1:18:23Paul C. Brunson:Yeah, I mean, that's the whole...

1:18:24Jo Frost:You know, on that note, because I'm glad you went there, is when people...

1:18:29Paul C. Brunson:We have to go there, Paul.

1:18:30Jo Frost:We have to go there.

1:18:31Paul C. Brunson:Just us. I'm talking about as a collective, as a world. Yes. We have to go there. Yes. We have to go there.

1:18:39Jo Frost:Yes. So a lot of people will say, Paul, why are you in the UK? Like, you know, I always get this. Why are you in the UK? It is, in essence, what you've just talked about. Whereas where we lived in the United States, we did not know if our child would come back home alive. There was an open question mark if they were to go out, would they be able to come back, right? Absolutely. Specifically as a result of gun violence, right? This was a question that we had. And then you add on to that racism with gun violence. And that increases the likelihood specifically of my black child not coming back home.

1:19:25Jo Frost:And then we get to the UK. And yes, the UK has lots of problems.

1:19:30Paul C. Brunson:Yes.

1:19:31Jo Frost:But that specific problem was not at the same level, not at the same magnitude. And it became not even a question for us at that moment in time.

1:19:42Paul C. Brunson:and I don't think it would be for me at all you know because I've watched I've watched my husband be profiled spread eagle you know in a nice part of America right I say nice part right because that's what I say it's a nice part of America and then you realise what they're talking about is you know a part of America where there's hardly any black people living right you know just I just want to keep it real here, Paul. Yes. You know, living in this country right now in America is extremely difficult and extremely frustrating. But this, you know, this, this conversation is a difficult conversation because it was only several days ago that there was a woman shot.

1:20:38Paul C. Brunson:She's a mother.

1:20:40Jo Frost:She's a mother. Absolutely. You know what? I'm so glad that you're talking about this because I think if you are not someone who loves children, if you're not someone who's aware of children, this probably doesn't hit your radar. But you know that there is not one morning when this is in London, right, where my children are going off to school where I'm not consciously aware, where I feel my stress level elevated just in the process of them going to their bus and then ensuring that they're at school. and in the moment that they I I get that text that they're at school stress level drops I can now really go about my day but then on their way back it's stress stress level goes up yeah can they get back to the house they're back at the house stress level goes away and that's every day

1:21:30Paul C. Brunson:every day every day every day and in the UK you know as in America because again there used to be that moment maybe 20 years ago you'd go oh it's a little bit behind and then it's going to catch up But now with social media, one thing goes out, the whole world, you know, sees it. And that has been a very good thing, right? Because it's been able to show a lot of negative and some justice that needed to be taking place or justice that isn't being taken place, right? However, it doesn't diminish the fact that we have parents living in both countries with an enormous amount of anxiety. and that just, man, that punishes the body.

1:22:11Paul C. Brunson:It takes the toll. It takes its toll on the body, you know. Over time, you think, oh, it's okay, you know, and then over time, over time, it just chips away and that chips away at the decisions you make and the amount of energy that you have and, you know, the projection then on your family. You know, it's difficult for families. it's really difficult for families and at a time but it's really difficult for families i'm asking families to dig deeper to dig deeper and go am i just gonna watch this all pass or am i going to take my family and put it on the map and go these are the decisions we're making for 2026 we need to talk and we need to talk we need to talk we need to sit around the table you and i we need to talk about our kids we need to talk about the decisions we're going to make from here to june we need to talk about what we're going to do to make sure that actually we are close as a family but we've also got our own space we need to offload ourself we need to be in a space with our partners where we can just be vulnerable you know i love the idea of this but i'm fucking petrified you know and i will fight too for now for our family but boy it scares me I hear you.

1:23:32Paul C. Brunson:Like, I hear you. Yes. It's all right to feel scared because I feel the same way as well. What are we going to do about it, babes? What are we going to do about it? What will we do about it together? Yes. Like, let's talk about this. You have to talk.

1:23:46Jo Frost:Yes.

1:23:46Paul C. Brunson:You have to talk. Yeah.

1:23:48Jo Frost:It's truly where it begins and ends. It really is. Is in the conversation. And I've always believed that the harder the conversations we're able to have, right? Yes. Just the higher quality of life we get.

1:24:00Paul C. Brunson:We have to have those conversations. Not all of us know what to say. I don't know all the time what to say. Sometimes I stumble, you know, and I'm well versed with communication. Yes. You know, and the levels of what that means. But, you know, sometimes we can't find words for the depth of what our heart feels at times. Sometimes we just can't. but is the energy there that that other person can feel that is the intention true is it genuine is it loving because if it is whatever's going to be said we know it was coming from a good place yes because people generally want to do good yes they do want to do good yes they might have not said the right thing and we're very we can be forgiving you know to our true friends i know they're the best interest at all you know they love us a bit but you know they meant well the

1:24:57Jo Frost:The intention, intentionality is everything. It is. And it's interesting because in the romantic relationship space, it's always about intentionality. Same thing with parenting.

1:25:06Paul C. Brunson:It is.

1:25:07Jo Frost:Same thing with parenting.

1:25:08Paul C. Brunson:Because if you get that right, then your children, they're very forgiving. Look how many times parents screw up unconditionally, your children. Hi.

1:25:18Jo Frost:Yeah, still there.

1:25:20Paul C. Brunson:Like, all right, dad. Still there. You know, but can you say, can you apologize? Can you apologize to your children? can you turn around and say you know what i just i just lost it right and i'm sorry and i'm so sorry

1:25:33Jo Frost:like do you know what i lost my call you know what's uh what's really resonating with me is as i'm reflecting on the conversation we had is for those new parents for those who haven't yet had the child but are pregnant thinking about the child just had the child right this is going to be

1:25:50Paul C. Brunson:so so valuable for you know i've um i've literally i've had that like i've had you know i remember i was in chicago airport and a couple came up to me and they were oh my god we watch our shows we watch our shows all the time we watch like i just look i just got engaged like we watch your shows we're gonna have children we're gonna have children like what would you what advice would you give us and i'm like well first and foremost congratulations right right talk all i would say to you right now in this stage talk to each other talk to each other about how you were raised what you loved about it what you didn't love about it you know how you want to raise your own children what's important to you what do those values look like like you work in this relationship department paul like you know how much time and effort and talking when you're dating someone like you're all there you're taking them out you're on the you put down the phone no you put down the phone no you put down the phone i can't put down the phone no you put down the phone and you know you're like all hyped up and you're talking and you go out for dinner and then like marriage happens and then crickets like crickets like everything stops and you're like how how yes right but you have to also because again i'm putting in the decades of seeing this you have to also realize that there has been media that has also conditioned that's changing now women like you would see in magazines oh this is how you capture the man of your dreams and this is how you you know don't ask him about how many children he may want or don't ask him you know about this and you're like no ask because if you're sitting in front of somebody that can't answer those questions or is offended by those questions thank you very much that was really nice goodbye thank you very much I think I'm going a second date now you know I mean to to to to the

1:27:45Jo Frost:point of even when you were talking about um uh you know you're talking about the importance of that emotional connection is like you have to talk you know you talked about uh we need to talk right what do we need to do in 2020 it's like this is the this is this is the through the through is in the conversation. The through is have the courage to show up. And when you show up, you will be rewarded always. You will be rewarded 100 % of the time. But now talking about conversations, this is another question, but this is the final question that everyone gets, right? When you think back to all of the incredible conversations you've had in your entire life, Which one stands out as the most memorable?

1:28:32Jo Frost:Who was it with? And why was it so memorable? What was the lesson? I think I'd like I think personally in this conversation, I would like to honor my mother who was, you know, my biggest role model, you know, in my life for the age that I am.

1:28:53Paul C. Brunson:You know, there are people in social media where, you know, they look up and they're inspired and, you know, I inspire so many. But in my life, you know, we didn't have so much of that growing up. Right. You know, there wasn't that in abundance, but my mother sure as hell was that, you know, a woman who was compassionate, that loved hard, you know, that was a beautiful mother and a loving wife and a dear friend, you know, and a woman who just had so much love and class. And I miss her. And, you know, I think to myself that if I can be half the woman that she was in the world and the impact that she had on her family and friends and community, then I'm doing a really good job.

1:29:49Paul C. Brunson:you know and my mother was certainly someone who I spoke to a lot when I was younger about my intuitiveness you know just a knowing and being rather confused about that when I was younger of what is this that I feel and and I I don't know how to explain it mum but it's like it's a I know it's like with a conviction, you know, and she knew because she was that way. She knew because she was that way.

1:30:22Jo Frost:That's who you got it from.

1:30:23Paul C. Brunson:She knew because she was that way. So, you know, I remember having a conversation in my teenage years, you know, where that conversation was about it's OK if you don't understand it right now. And it's OK if you've even not trusted it at times because the outcome will teach you a lesson. Right. but to embrace that it's part of who you are and that makeup is who I am as the woman I am today with the impact that I make today because that's the makeup of who I am because the work that I do educating families is a makeup of nearly four decades of experience and the makeup of who I am as a human being yes you know yes and so that that was a beautiful conversation because that is who I am and that's something that I love about who I am and it means that I feel deeper and it means that you know emotionally sometimes it can be very heavy or hard to handle at times you know but I wouldn't trade it for anything yeah I know you wouldn't I know you wouldn't

1:31:34Jo Frost:You know, I will say this, and you're going to say, oh, Paul's just gassing me up. But no, this is not me just gassing you up. I think about icons and what it means to be iconic. And to me, there is notoriety. There's a skill that that person possesses. But most important, there's a respect that a large group has, and they show on this particular person, or they, should I say, they give to that particular person. And that, these are the pieces of an icon, right, iconic. And there are very few people in television who are iconic, I believe. Very few, very few. You, Jo, are hands down one of the most iconic people ever to land on a television screen.

1:32:38Jo Frost:Like one of the most iconic globally. But what I realized in this conversation is what has allowed you to get there is your mom.

1:32:53Paul C. Brunson:She's been with me all the way. She's been me in this whole journey. She wasn't alive when this happened, but she sure as hell was, you know, she was she's around.

1:33:07Jo Frost:You are unapologetic. You are truly unapologetic. And that is what made those formats work. And I think that there is no way that I will ever be able to not see you and separate you from someone who is unapologetic, but also someone who is passionate about children.

1:33:33Paul C. Brunson:this you are passionate i am i'm fiercely you are fiercely passionate about about about children

1:33:41Jo Frost:um and i want to say this has been a huge honor uh to to have you here with us and i cannot wait to see what the next because you kept referring to the level up like so i cannot wait to see

1:33:56Paul C. Brunson:what the next chapter holds for you thank you i appreciate that thank you so much and for giving me this opportunity. I appreciate that.

1:34:03Jo Frost:Thank you. This is a masterclass. I'm telling you, every parent is going to need to watch this. Jo Frost. Not Super Nanny. Jo Frost. Her level of integrity is far and beyond what I see from many people on reality television. Quite honestly, Jo Frost needs to be in a format like this. This was not the Joe Frost that I saw on television. We got a little bit more, you know, we got a little more flavor, a little more, there was, there was, there was sauce on it. You know what I mean? Uh, and I really, really like, I like, I always already liked Joe. I now love Joe. So one practical point that I'm taking away is you don't have to address the thing right there.

1:34:58Jo Frost:I love that. You know, something happens, my child does something. It doesn't have to be addressed in that moment. It can be addressed later. It can be addressed tomorrow, right? The focus should be on, do they feel safe? That's something that just personally, I'll always hold near and dear to my heart. So I love that. I love that. There were a few moments where I was going to say, you appear to be emotional. She was walking on the edge of her emotion the entire time that we were talking, which just shows you how deeply she cares about children. Man, she's just so real and raw at the same time.

1:35:45Jo Frost:And we need more. We need more of Jo. We do. Like, we need her, her voice today more than ever.

1:35:56Paul C. Brunson:I just had this instant fear of Dave. My mom came in, Dave asked me to marry him. The next night, she came home, black and blue, any other sign-off shot gun to her head. We had to go into hiding. She said, Dave, you're real dad. Atomic, here you go. Carrie Katona, you're fixed to that. Number one worldwide. I knew from the age of five I was going to be famous. I wanted to matter. The situations I've been put in as a child, No child should ever be in. It got to a point that it nearly killed me. Life changed overnight. I remember thinking like I was a superstar. Everyone took the piss. No one believed it.

1:36:29Paul C. Brunson:I said, I'm in the girl band, honestly. It's like number one in 19 countries.

1:36:33Jo Frost:You were in one of the hottest groups in the UK, and then you leave.

1:36:37Paul C. Brunson:The climb to fame part was amazing. Getting there, I hated it. Somebody posted a handwritten letter wishing me and my baby to die. When you're in a girl band, it's not glamorous at all. You work your f*** off. You're giving everything for free. Oh, we was on, like,$2.50 a week. So, anyways, we had Liz and Heidi. One of them didn't like one and the other, and one of them slapped somebody. Anyway, how...

1:36:59Jo Frost:Can we talk about that? You said one of them slapped one of them?

1:37:02Paul C. Brunson:I wasn't there. Nothing do with me.

1:37:04Jo Frost:You and Brian meet.

1:37:05Paul C. Brunson:I only found out after we got married

1:37:07Jo Frost:that Brian had cheated on his stag doof. He rang me up and he said, I want a divorce. I had such a breakdown over Brian.

1:37:14Paul C. Brunson:I was a mess. I was doing drugs. And now you've got yourself so low, you're in rehab. How did I get here? And I made so many mistakes. So many.

1:37:27Jo Frost:At Blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you, your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100 % satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows because at blinds.com the only thing we treat better than windows is you visit blinds.com now for up to 45 % off select styles plus a free professional measure rules and restrictions apply