Joey Graceffa On The Life He Hid Behind YouTube: I Lost The Mum I Knew

35:28And it was these top YouTube creators who shared content. They made these skits and like these really high edited production content. as a group. So it was like these like major YouTubers at the time. And so I thought we were being invited to join that channel. And then it wasn't until we like got there that we were like, oh, wait, this is not that. So they're over here. Yeah. But they once a month would produce a higher quality content for our channel. And it was basically like a rev split after I think$5 ,000 dollars a month they would take a percentage but we never reached that so we kept all the money um and so it was it was a really good introduction into how production worked moving up to LA feeling like we had a bit of security because it felt like we had almost like a network behind us and yeah it was just a great way to like meet other creators and come out here and collaborate.

36:30Yeah. And how old were you when you came out here? 19. Yeah. So, I mean, 19 going from the suburbs of Boston to LA. Yes. That's a culture change. It was. It was incredible. It was being around a whole bunch of people who didn't know who past Joey was. And so I felt like I had so much more freedom to be myself. and the group of friends that I surrounded myself with were very accepting of gay people. And so I felt more comfortable to be my flamboyant, like joyous self. And so eventually felt comfortable enough to come out to them. And that kind of started my whole gay journey. All right. But LA was just like freedom.

37:16Wow, LA was freedom. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that. Can we talk about your coming out journey? Yeah. What were those milestones for you? I think the first and major one is the internalized homophobia. That was the biggest hurdle to get over, was finally accepting that I was gay. I just remember taking am I gay quizzes. Really? To like tell me if I was gay or not. And if it said I was, I would take it again and be like, no, I'm not bitch. Oh my God. Judd, tell me about this. something well first of all if you're taking that quiz you're gay so there's your answer but i wanted like this was like the most private way to like talk about it so i would take these quizzes and like if it said i was bi i was like okay i can at least deal with that but i was also confused because i thought girls were pretty and so i was like a little confused because i had crushes on girls growing up okay so it's a since realized it's okay to think that women are beautiful but you're just not sexually attracted to them and that was like the difference yes and so finally i think what changed was i went out to this dinner it was like a big group dinner it was like a post celebratory production thing that my friend had just shot a music video and so I ended up being sat across from a gay guy and so we were just chatting throughout the whole dinner and at the end he asked for my number and I got a little flutter okay and my stomach and I was like what is this and so he ended up asking me out for lunch and I I was like, oh, it could be like a business lunch thing.

39:09No, it was a date. And so once I realized that, I was like, this feels so right and good. It was like something clicked in me. And I was like, OK, yeah, but you're gay. And I told my friend that I went on a date with a guy. And she was like, oh, my God, that's so cool. And so she was so nonchalant about it. and that was like such another important step to me accepting because it was that external validation that I had never received before and so having Matt just built my confidence even more that it's okay to have these feelings yes and then it was just like a gradual telling more friends and they kind of built my confidence up more and then the scariest part was the parents and That was the, like, last step.

40:04Well, actually, no, it wasn't because then I had to tell my audience a bit later. But the parents, I think, was the scariest. Tell me about that. Well, at this point with my mom, I now was separated from that situation. I got really bad with her before I left. Like, we got physical with each other. And so it was like this weird thing where she was out visiting me and we were in like a good period of our relationship and we were just driving. and this was I think maybe a year or so after that first date that I had with that guy and now a couple guys later I'm like still dating around and I was just like oh like I have a date tonight with a guy and she was like oh okay and then we kind of just left it there and we didn't have like any further discussion about that.

41:05And so that was my way of coming out to her. And it just kind of like was that. We didn't go any further. And then with my dad, I think he was probably more of the scary one of the two. The two, yeah. Label gay growing up. Yeah, yeah. What did that mean to your father? What did that mean to your mother? I just remember subtle things they would say. And that is what made me afraid. Like, I remember my mom, we were in Florida on a vacation. And her saying, like, I accept gays, but I don't want to see it. Like, she didn't want to see guys holding hands or guys kissing. And so that definitely stayed in the back of my mind.

41:59And my dad constantly was like making gay jokes or just didn't like anything not rigidly masculine. And so I was terrified of him. I remember one video I posted on YouTube. I was playing this character that had like a lisp and kind of like spoke very gay. I mean, it wasn't too far off from my own character, but it was like an enhanced version of me. and he was like, oh, you sound so gay in this. And so then that stuck with me and I was like, oh my God. I felt like I had been living a lie and having to tell them that I've been lying to them was hard. I feel a little bit of that pressure right now and I can see how you must have thought it could be easier to not even tell your father.

42:49Yeah. My sister, I think, is where I got the courage for that particular one because I think it was around Thanksgiving. I would go home to visit and she was like, you need to tell him. I was like, okay. So we sat down at the table. I chugged like a glass of wine after dinner. And I was like, I need to tell you something. And I just could not get the words out. Like it was just stuck right here. And I think it was like, I just don't know how to start. Like, how do I start this? Like, where do I begin? And then I think I ended up just blurting out, like, I am gay. Like, that's just the easiest way to just get it all out at once.

43:31And I was expecting him to be upset and angry. And he just looked at me with no effect on his face. He just looked at me as if I didn't say anything of, like, anything crazy. Yeah. Anything of consequence. No. And he was just like, OK. And he just hugged me and was just so supportive. And it was so. like important that I got that acceptance and it it really like affected me deeply moving forward to have his approval or just his love because if the scariest man in my life can accept me for who I am like I have nothing else to hide

44:56Wow, look at that. it felt truly like I had been lying. It was like, well, now how do I backtrack and then tell the world? Which, by the way, telling the world is so scary because you're just inviting a bunch of strangers to comment on their opinions. Yes. And I was scared that that was going to push me deeper backwards than it would forward. Right. And I think it's also important for everyone to know who's not aware of how widely followed you were at this point. Yeah. What was that following like? So I vlogged every single day for five years, but I think I was maybe two or three years into it.

45:35So I built up this large audience of teenage girls who I think a majority of them could tell that I was gay. But there was a lot of them that were like actually in love with me. And so there was the fear that by coming out as gay, I'm now cutting out a big portion of my audience that is attracted to me or sees like a potential future with me through like a parasocial, you know, vlogging every single day, you become connected to that person. And so it felt like I could be like risking it all. Yes. And how many? Because we're at millions now. Yes. I think I was at like maybe three or four million.

46:18followers at that time yes and i think what like ultimately gave me the courage was other youtubers coming out and seeing their response to their coming out like troy sivan carna franta like those were people that i mean there was a time where like coming out videos were a thing it's not anymore but um i was like you know what i need to one-up these gays and so i was like i'm not just gonna do a sit down coming out video i'm gonna make it a production and so i made a like 60 000 music video and flew out to montana shot this very whimsical magical essentially story of my life through fiction and non-fiction like flipping back and forth between reality and fantasy.

47:10It cost $60 ,000. $60 ,000? Oh, it cost$60 ,000. It cost$60 ,000 for this. Yes. Oh my goodness. I know. It was a production. You did definitely one-up everybody. I certainly did. And I think it has like 45 million views now. So it was a hit. It was a moment. Oh yeah, it was a moment. I think there's a key aspect to that moment. If I could show you something. Okay. I have so many things to show you. Right. I think, was that on set? Yes. Don't wait. So that's my ex-boyfriend, Daniel. Okay. He helped produce that music video. And we were secretly dating at that point. And I needed to cast my love interest.

47:56And he was like, well, why don't I be it? And I was like, okay, if you're down to be in the video, it's going to come with a lot of attention. Like this is going to be a big moment. You're going to be like a part of this. And like, you won't really be anonymous anymore. And he was down and it was just intensity after that. Yes. Yes. So now in the announcement, right. So you shoot the video, you edit it. Yep. You hit publish, right. What are you anticipating is going to happen versus what does happen? I, I, it was like split. I think I, I knew that there would be a lot of support just based off of what other people had experienced with their coming out videos.

48:54But there was also just like the fear of it, like not coming across the way that I wanted. You know, you never really can guarantee people are going to react the way that you want them to react. But I showed a few people before I even posted and they were just like, that was beautiful. Like, people are going to love this. Yes. And also, I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I was like, I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? And people were like, congratulations, King. Like, we knew it. I'm like, wait, but I didn't officially say anything.

49:35But yeah, it ultimately became my coming out video. Yeah, yeah, it did. And then did you lose the audience that you thought you were going to lose? No, it was insane amount of support. Like the reaction was crazy. I think it definitely boosted my numbers. And just I think because it was such like a heartfelt story and the music video, people connected with it and were proud of me to share that side of my life finally. And. Yeah, it was just a rallying support of love. Can we talk about your is it right to say vlogging career? Sure. Right. Because I find this piece. of your life to be very fascinating.

50:26Yeah. Because, you know, at a certain point, so my son is, my youngest is 12. And last year, the top profession that year, this is a study in the UK and the US, was YouTuber. Wow. And I consider you to be one of the people that has inspired so many people to want so many younger people to want to become a YouTuber as a profession? Yeah. Right. One, how does that sit with you? And then we'll get into the career, but how does that sit with you? I think it's cool. I mean, it's awesome. Like I love the fact that this has been my career for the past 20 years. So I think it makes a lot of sense why people would look at a YouTuber and want to be that.

51:19I think it was honestly the same way I felt about actors and Hollywood and the movies. Like I, I want to be a Disney channel star so bad because it just seemed like such a cool thing to get to play make believe, to have all this fame and get to do these cool things just seemed like so much fun. So I think it's just the new age of what used to be being a Disney Channel star or like an actor would be. Exactly, exactly. So now in this becoming a career and a profession, I think it's important to look at how much work that you put into this. So how would you describe that? Because it's not all, I think there's this thought of, yeah, you just show up, you sing and dance, say a few things and call it a day.

52:12But talk about the level of work and almost obsession, I would imagine you have to have. Yeah. I mean, again, 20 years of this, it's, there's not many people who've lasted that long. And the reason is because it's very demanding, not only like on the daily basis of having to come up with content, but also, So, you know, there's a lot of other aspects that fall into it, whether it's like public perception, scrutiny. But also it's really hard to retain relevance for a long period of time. And if you can't pivot and change up your content and you get stuck on one particular thing because it worked for a certain period of time and you just keep trying and trying and it's just not working anymore.

53:04A lot of people, I think, just give up. And it just takes a lot of tenacity to be able and persistence to be able to continue for a long period of time. Otherwise, you just get burnt out and it's over. What do you think gives you the ability to pivot? This is kind of like a blessing and a curse. I feel like niche people do so well, but I will never be a niche. Like I just want to do so many things that I think that keeps me able to switch up my stuff because I have so many interests and I want to do so many different things that it allows me to change up my content and try new things. Can we talk about, and this I truly think is brilliant, is Escape the Night.

53:49Yes. That was my favorite project that I've ever gotten to work on. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. Yeah. Incredibly unique. you leveraged a format. Yeah. You leveraged personalities. Yeah. In a way that I think had never been done before. No, I mean, I would attribute a lot of my success to collaboration on my channel. There was a long period of time where YouTubers were just collabing with each other. It was like we'd sit down, maybe not even know them that well, sit down in front of a camera, do a challenge on one channel and do a different challenge on the other. And the cross promotion was key to a lot of YouTuber success at that time of like 2014 to 18.

54:34And so I took that idea of bringing 10 content creators together, throwing them into a almost reality TV slash scripted environment where they're dressed up in an era. So season one was 1920. So imagine all the top YouTubers in 1920s outfits. Right. It was so different to how the YouTube audience was seeing their favorite content creator act or behave. And so it just brought all these 10 different audiences together and immersed them into a world that I think was just ahead of its time. Yes. Yes. And we got four seasons out of it. And I would love to bring it back and do even more with it. Yeah.

55:22So you're thinking about bringing it back? Yeah, absolutely. It's unfortunate because YouTube Originals stopped their programming, which is where it ended. And so I would love to bring it to another network and see it brought back with reality stars and traditional celebrities mixed in with content creators as well and kind of redo what we did by mixing all these audiences together. because I feel like reality TV is still a little scared of bringing in content creators. I don't see it that often. And I think there's so much power there that's untapped. And I think what we managed to do with the show and the success that it had can easily be replicated.

56:06I mean, do you feel like we're reaching a point now where YouTube and what's happening online, so to speak, is beginning to dwarf television and reality TV. And the reason why I say that in particular is because, like, so I go back 15 years on reality TV, and I would distinctly remember people would say, I can't wait, like, I'm using my online community to, my end goal is to get on TV. Yeah. Whereas now I feel like it's, no, I'm using TV, my end goal is to get online. Yeah. Yeah. No, for real, like people going on Love Island, for instance, like it's an instant following on social media. Yep. Exactly.

56:52It totally has reversed. I mean, I remember I did The Amazing Race and I thought I was going to get a bajillion followers. No, no one came over to my channel to subscribe. Really? Yeah. It was shocking. You did two series of Amazing Race. Yes, I was an all-star. So not even being an all-star, it didn't even get you followers. No. You know what community, like, was Facebook moms. Like, those were the people that were watching the shows. It wasn't Gen Z or really millennials watching that program. So it was like, yeah, I had an audience with the moms. The moms. But when I think about social media and following, something that I've seen you say and I completely agree with is that the amount of...

57:41negativity online has increased. And I think I saw you say something around the lines of since 2020, you feel like. So let's talk about that because I have theories, because I agree with you, and I have theories as to why. Okay. There was a clear shift. I mean, someone who's been on the internet and social media and YouTube and whatnot since the dawn of it, I've gotten to see the evolution from inside. and how it started was it was a lot of the outsider community the nerds the weirdos finding community online and we had all these like subcategories of creators who built audiences but it was really like a bunch of nerds and the outcasts i guess if you will who found their tribe online and then in 2020 when everyone was forced to go inside the entire world found our little safe haven and joined in.

58:39And so it wasn't just content creators and their audience. It was now everybody is now in this space. And it was like a new wild wild west where there's now TikTok involved. And it was very easy for the average normal person to have a video be seen by a lot more people, not just their audience. And so I think it was just the introduction of the rest of the world, finding our little space. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm with you on that. And, and I would say that I think what then happened is that you had, so any type of engagement creates more uplift in the content. And I feel this has really been the case over the last several years is there's more cultural and political divide.

59:31Absolutely. To the point where it's so interesting. I noticed that the hate comments are predominantly the comments that you see under so much content now. And that's the content that ends up staying with, I think, the creator. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Does that impact you even to this day? Yeah, of course. I mean, I've been in the game for 20 years. Totally. For me personally, there's a level of feeling misunderstood that can come across with these hate comments. And it's like they don't know the full story or they like they're only seeing this little like video or clip. And then they're just like, I don't know, generating hate.

1:00:17And it's just like I just want you to know the full picture of what you're hating on. Yes. And I feel like that's across the board. it's very much we live in a time where people are just scrolling and they see an entertaining like story or someone talk about something and then they just take that as face value and then continue on and then they have the narrative in their head about a certain topic or something. And there's a lot less research going into certain things that pop up online. How do you respond to that? Do you comment on it? You know, to those hate messages? Do you internalize it?

1:01:05Do you try to avoid it? Like, how do you deal with it? It's impossible to not internalize it. I think that's part of like why I, now my content isn't so I mean my content now is mainly focused around the animals that I rescue whereas before it was like centered around me and my life yes and I think just over time the comments kind of like get into your head about certain things and it it can change the way you behave and feel end up feeling more reserved to share things because once you open up that box it's kind of like allowing people to poke at your vulnerabilities wow yeah so this is one reason why you have shifted to predominantly content around your rescuing i guess so i think subconsciously but also like I I landed in this space during 2020 I rescued a pregnant cat and fell in love with the process and it's just genuinely something that I love to do and it's just very nice that it doesn't have to be about me but it wasn't like okay I can't do content about me anymore what's my next right subject it was this natural but but I would imagine though it It feels good.

1:02:27It's something you're passionate about. I mean, who's going to troll? Who's going to troll? Oh, really? Saving, rescuing dogs. Are folks trolling? I think it's just another thing. It's like people are upset that people are saving puppies from death. If people are upset about that online, nothing's off the table. And so you're also a writer. Yeah. When did you begin writing? I wrote like these crazy books as a kid. They were like just colorful pages and I just write stories. And I remember my first creative writing class in fourth grade and just like we had 30 minutes to write a story. And I just like was riding up a storm and I never wanted to stop.

1:03:15And looking back at like I understand why because it was like just a creative outlet to like get my imagination and like these stories in my head out. and um it started in 2014 15 when I started writing my memoir book about my life in real life yes and that was a very therapeutic experience because it was like talking about life experiences but it was about me and then the following year the publisher wanted to do another book and I was like well I have like a fictional story I would like to write and so that became a trilogy called children of eden and that was just like a gateway opening into the creative writing experience so then my fifth book the 12 that just came out in february was my fifth book it's about witches having powers based off their zodiac sign wait what's your sign yeah it is well i'm a virgo a virgo okay yes uh and and i didn't subscribe to it at all but now i'm fully do you know stereotypically virgos are the most anti-astrology yeah so that that fully tracks they're notorious for not believing in astrology i was like this is all bs this is all nonsense this is i don't no no but now joey like i'm beginning to really see yeah so so now i saw the can i say promo video of 12.

1:04:44And I found it to be fascinating. Oh, thank you. Do you know why I found it to be fascinating? Because the book was there. I mean, you flashed the book. Yeah. 12 was there. But there were some other things happening in the video as well. Yeah. And I thought, wow, Joey knows what he's doing out here. I love to do like, I mean, same with the coming out video. Like I love a production. I love to make a dramatic cinematic. I see things very visually and creative. So like when I'm writing my books, it's all very visual. So I'm writing it. When I'm writing, I see it as a movie in my head and I'm just typing out what I see is kind of my process.

1:05:22Can we talk about the supporting character in your promo video? Okay. All right. Which was the same supporting character in your coming out video. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. You see where I'm going here? Yes. Yeah. So one is, can you talk about him, how that came about in your promo? Yeah, no, I mean, that video you're referring to is just one of the many promo things that I created. But that was a big one. It was me kissing my ex-boyfriend. Yes. And so, yeah, we still have like a really good connection. We never really stopped being friends after we broke up. and so we had this idea to just like you know spark a little conversation a little conversation but also he was a part of the launch of my first book and so having my fifth one come out it was just kind of like a little bit of a throwback of making out with your ex-boyfriend I mean who doesn't do that right so on this though you remain friends after you broke up yeah right which is something that most people cannot do.

1:06:37Yeah. I know that for a fact. Totally. Right. So one is, what is it about the two of you or your relationship that has allowed you to remain friends? I think because we did things on mutual terms, I think that helped. But also on a deeper level, he also experienced a lot of similar trauma growing up that I experienced. And so we are just like connected on a level like that of our childhoods being very similar with not having parents in our lives. And I think because we had such a strong bond with each other, it's something neither of us really want to lose in a friendship. And so we chose to stay in each other's lives over not having each other in our lives.

1:07:30But that is, to me, that is something that takes a very high degree of maturity to be able to do. But how do you do that? It's difficult at times. Like I feel like we probably should have had a period of no contact because it does extend the moving on process and being able to detach from each other much longer. It's been a longer process than I think if we had got no contact, we would have been able to have more of that separation. But now I feel like we're in a pretty strong place of it just being very friendship. Even emotionally, though, there's still in order to sustain the friendship. Yeah.

1:08:17There needs to be an emotional connection. Right. But how do you sustain a deep emotional connection with an ex? I don't know if it's necessarily deep. It's still a little bit like we keep it a little bit on the surface still. And we don't really get too deep. I mean, neither of us have been in a relationship since. So I don't even know what it's going to be like when we cross that line of one of us being in a relationship that could potentially change everything. If you are considering another relationship, would you then tell Daniel first? I think if anything got serious and I ended up having an official boyfriend, yes, of course, I would tell him that was happening.

1:09:01Can we talk about love? Yeah, totally. So when you think about you being in love romantically, have you been in love? Aside from him? Well, I'm presuming it was with him. Yes. Okay. Since then, no. Okay. However, his dog, who's kind of my dog, her name's Montana, she is my love of my life. Okay. Which is so frustrating because she's not officially my dog, but she is like my sole dog. Like I would do anything for her. I've never loved anything more in my life than that dog. Really? I know. It's crazy. It's like a different feeling than I've ever felt. Like I would literally do anything. Okay. But I would like to harness that energy towards a man.

1:09:52Yes. Yeah. That would be good. That would be good. Yes, it would be great. That would be good. Then still then, you and Daniel are still in love, but not together. Okay. Do you think there's any future that the two of you would be together? I don't know. I feel like there is so many moments that we're together that remind me why it didn't work out. but then there's like moments that i'm like oh like we still make a great team like i was just in japan for two weeks and he stayed at my house and took care of my foster and the puppies oh my goodness so he's definitely a person in my life that does things in a way that i can trust someone so deeply and we still have such a good like working relationship that it's like well i don't know yeah it's one of those where i always find it so hard because was he the first love of your life yeah yeah i could see where it becomes a very challenging position for you i mean i would love for the next person to be the one which is why i think i'm so particular like there's obviously been opportunities to be with someone but i'm just looking for something in particular what are you looking for um well for a while i was looking for like a british man to like live off in the countryside with so if you know any i'm still open i know many okay well please connect me there's something about like the british accent that just gets me and i'm just like oh um however there's been a i've been to london for extended period of times and through my experience london boys are terrible kissers oh you're you're going there huh however there was this one guy he wasn't necessarily from london he was actually from greece amazing kisser oh yes so i i would be open to like a greek man or an italian man who lives in london maybe has developed a british accent um and we can go off and live in the countryside and have a bunch of animals okay yeah all right I can see that for you.

1:12:05Okay. Sure. All right. I'll make that happen. Please. I'll make that happen. Last question on relationships though for you is, do you believe that you will find love again? Yes. Without a doubt. A hundred percent. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm so excited to have that feeling again. And I think I'm a little burnt out right now from it. And I'm just like focused on work. But I'm not looking for love, but I'm open to it. Hey there, we have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit subscribe and I'll see you for the next one. You mentioned your sister.

1:12:58so where are you and your sister today so we ended up getting a lot closer um when I got into high school she was a senior when I was in eighth grade and we had like one year in the same school together and she was very mean to me growing up like she was she'd throw me down the stairs she was just abusive to me physically and then one time I I finally retaliated once and I like attacked her like I I went full feral and she became scared of me and then we from there she like had some respect she's like okay and then I think she threw a party once and I didn't tell on her and so she was like okay I can trust him I respect him and then we started developing a closer relationship.

1:13:54And now we talk like every single day and she's like my closest person that I can, you know, share stuff that I'm going through in life. And, you know, I feel like she's my older sister who can give me good life advice. And yeah. Yeah. Look at that. Joey, I have a final surprise for you. Oh God. What is it? Is it a puppy? it is a chihuahua no it is this it's a little letter I'd love if you could read it out loud let us see

1:14:33Joey I don't think I tell you enough how much you mean to me even though you're my younger brother

1:14:42this is for my sister I've always looked up to you in so many ways ever since you were young you've had this natural oh my god I can't even read this ever since you were young you had this natural ability to make everyone around you feel calm, safe, and understood growing up there was so much chaos and uncertainty around us but just having you around brought me comfort and I don't know if I've ever fully told you that before because we both know I didn't show it very well when we were younger watching you grow into the man you are today has honestly been one of the greatest gifts as your sister i'm constantly in awe of what you've accomplished but what i admire most is the person you are at your core you have such a good heart and the way you show up for people care for others and make everyone around you feel valued is something really special no matter how much life changes to me you will always be my little joey the kindest boy with the biggest imagination and biggest heart you're not just my brother you're truly my best friend you're the person i can always talk to lean on laugh with and trust through every stage of life i feel incredibly lucky to have you by my side and i hope you know how proud I am of you every single day.

1:16:05I love you so much. How did you get to her? That is so sweet. I love that. Oh my god. That was really sweet. Yeah, I love her so much. There's not many people I have in my life that I'm like super close with and can be vulnerable with. And she and like a few select others are the people I can confide in. Yeah, yeah. What I also love about the love between you and your sister is I think it gives so many of us hope who maybe didn't have a close relationship with our sibling earlier. Yeah. No, that's very true. I mean, typically your siblings you're going to experience an entire life with. So I think they're probably the more important person to fix whatever relationship you have missing with them.

1:17:05Yeah, well said, well said. Joey, I've enjoyed this. I have too. Thank you for this sweet letter and giving me this space to share more of my story. Absolutely, absolutely. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we haven't covered that you want to touch on? It's the full thing. yeah I think we were we were thorough with it I will then ask you the final question everyone gets this question all right it's my favorite it is you've had some incredible conversations in your life when you think about the most memorable who was it with and what did you learn oh wow yeah that is I think I I again have to go back to the conversation with my stepdad who like really, really instilled in me just the belief that anything in life was possible because without that deep, integral conversation at such a young, impactful age, I honestly don't know if I could be here sitting right now with the success that I've achieved without having the limitations set on me.

1:18:22So I think I have to give it to him. Thanks for your vulnerability, your just rawness, but also for your inspiration. You inspire so many people, and I think it's important for you to know that because sometimes, especially for those of us, and I'm one of those people who stay in my head most of the time, it's important to look out and realize that you are doing good. You are literally changing lives. And I think ultimately that's the most important thing we can do here with our time. Yeah. And you're doing it. I agree. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. And I'm going to find you a man.

1:19:05Okay. I'll take you up on that. So preferably, right, we want someone from Greece or Italy. Yeah. Anyone European, honestly. Anyone over there. I'm good. Okay. But you want the British accent. Or any accent. Or any accent. Any accent, yeah. Just a little spice. A little spice. Yeah. Who is open to living between the states and... Los Angeles. Done. Okay. Done, done, done, done. All right. All right. I got you. Can't wait. Yeah. Okay. Joey, Joey, Joey. All right. You know, Joey's super successful as an adult, But yet, you can still see the conflict and the turmoil, the internal turmoil, based on events as a child.

1:19:58It's so interesting to see his journey because he started as the mama's boy, as he said. He started feeling ostracized from his dad, not connected to his sister, but yet connected to his mom. And look at where he is today. I do believe wholeheartedly that kids soak everything up, not only the words, but the silence. And in Joey's case, that's exactly what he did. He heard these homophobic statements coming from his mother and father and family members. and that becomes a part of that internalizing and you can see how harmful it was and how reluctant he was to even come to his father over the course of so many years.

1:20:50But then eventually when he does come to his dad, his dad embraces him and accepts him. So to me, the lesson there is just how important those early interactions are. Just sweet, sweet man. You know, he is someone who I will cheer for when he enters his next relationship. I was 16, made like a million quid. Tommy Innit, you are one of the most followed people in the world. It was the most amazing thing, and then it really backfired. We had the police around, and my mom was crying. That was very scary.

1:21:28Start making these videos, I got a taste. And I was like, oh, I want more of that. That was genuinely the last moment in my life that things felt like real. And I was like, just watching myself make the most money I've made, keep it a big secret, and no one at school knows. So the day of reckoning came. All of my self-esteem was leaning on this thing, I'm the most popular person ever. That was the worst feeling in the world, because I'm still on this treadmill, but I'm not really running for nothing anymore. And at this point as well, I'm finding it really hard to navigate, so every week I'm having a call with a different YouTuber, KSI, MrBeast, Logan Paul.

1:22:02It appeared as if there was this brotherhood. Well, because we're all misfits. We don't fit in and then we're all helping each other. At night, a call that Techno had died. I loved him. He was a hero of mine and he was a friend. At that point on, the world lost some of its color. Thank you for being a voice that says, it's okay not to be okay. On that note, I have a little surprise for you.