Kelly Osbourne on Ozzy’s Final Words and Choosing Herself “I Didn’t Know What I Looked Like”

31:21And it will be them like half naked on a pole as their profile picture. And you're like, this totally contradicts everything that you're saying. Yes. Or like people who used to call me fat. I'm like, you're fatter than I am. What are you on about?

31:42Like, what made you feel like you needed to do that? Right. it just shows you how many sick people there are in this world. Right. And how heartless people can be. Because you've been having to deal with this the entirety of your adulthood. The entirety of your adulthood. I have a lot thicker skin that I ever gave myself credit for, I will say that. But does it still hurt? You know, it hurts me for humanity. that this is the world that we live in now where people feel that it's okay to be that cruel. It's not about me. They do it to so many other people too. It is weird, I will say, that I do end up getting a lot of it.

32:33But I think it's because people think that they own a piece of me because they've grown up with me. Okay.

32:44And they've made up their minds as to who I am like 25 years ago. And they're still running with that narrative. And it's just... And you know what really pissed me off? He's like, I don't really recall anyone standing up for me. That's interesting. I don't. I saw maybe a couple of posts, but it wasn't like, and I'll be honest with you, even to my own family, because you have to remember, they're all dealing with their own grief. They're not focusing on what's happening with me. Right. It's just, you know, I had to walk through that alone.

33:36And it was really fucking hard. But I've come out the other side of it, and I am stronger as a result of it. Yeah. I mean, you definitely, to me, you present today like someone who has fire in her belly. Oh, I have a fire up my ass like you wouldn't fucking believe. Well, up your ass too. You would not believe. There is so much that I plan on doing. There is so much that I have to offer. There is so much work yet to be done, and it hasn't even begun. Yeah. and every single one of them can suck shit because I get to be me. And I'm sorry that your life is miserable, but you can change that too if you want to.

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36:21Yes. Okay, so was the first reality TV family series? So we did MTV Cribs. And it was their highest rated MTV Cribs ever. Okay. and for you know for the people who don't know about MTV Cribs because I'm like yeah yeah I watch it all the time but Kelly there must be there's there may be some young bucks out there so MTV Cribs was a show where they took you through celebrities homes and they showed you and everybody would walk through their bedroom and say this is where the magic lessons and like everyone would show off their cars and their extravagant lifestyles and a lot of the time it was rented houses and people pretending that they lived there when they really didn't but it was our real home and my they asked if me and my brother wanted to do it with my dad and there were so many requests into mtv for more of it so more of seeing me and my brother and my dad and i don't even remember if my mom was actually in mtv cribs very much at all okay and i remember i thought i was so cool because i was on mtv and i was wearing this denim jacket that It was Fendi that had rhinestones on it.

37:34And I thought I was so cool. I mean, that is cool. And I was like, you know, and I remember calling up my best friend and being like in England. I was like, yes, what I did today. And like, then they asked us to go on TRL and which was Total Request Live. And they played the top 10 music videos of the day because it was on every day at that time. Yes. and you'd have to call in and request it to make sure you got your favorite music video up and it it was like a great show and there'd be thousands of people outside in new york city in times square like watching up at the window to see it be filmed live and that was me i was i was down there watching yeah and carson daily was carson daily and there was like the famous photo booth where everyone got their pitch taken and it just it was like it was so cool it was so fun and then from there they asked me and my brother to do mtv spring break oh wow okay which was for people who don't know and were too young uh was one of their biggest things of the year which was they'd either go to mexico or florida i think and all these different bands would come and perform and they'd have live shows and film it.

38:58And what were you and Jack doing? Just presenting a few bits. Okay. And we couldn't fucking believe we got invited because it meant that you were like, cool, if you got invited.

39:14And it just, and then it all kind of stemmed from there and then it was like a natural progression about how would you feel about doing a show about your guys' life. And it was more my mom's idea to stretch it out because they were trying to figure out more ways in which they could work with us. And we were like, well, let's just turn the cameras on and see what happens. And we had cameras in our house 24 hours a day. There were two crews, 12-hour shifts each. Cameras set up in every room except full bathrooms and bedrooms. Okay. It just happened how it happened. and it took a long time to film a season so how long did it take to film the first season?

39:59I want to say like six months okay it was now that's a long time it's like two weeks two weeks yeah and they're produced moments they call them yes produced produced moments where they tell you the story they don't tell you what to say but they tell you what they want to get out of it and then you go and film it and that's it yeah so it's pretty much like set ups and acting Whereas at that point, it's truly follow-on docuseries. It's what happened, how it happened, when it happened. It's not structured? No. Okay. It costs too much money to do it the way we did it. Yes, yes. I mean, that's a massive production.

40:37And also, it's never been done before. So you have no idea what the result is going to be. But if I can ask, because your sister is living at the house at that time. Yeah, she lived in the guest house. And she chose, from what I understand, she chose not to participate. So what was that conversation like when you sit down and she says, you know what, I'm opting out of this? I can't tell the whole truth because I don't want to speak on behalf of her. Okay. And I do, you know, we're not close. But I do respect her enough to, you know, keep her anonymity, if you understand. I believe there's a reason for everything.

41:25It just wasn't meant to be for her. Okay, fair. That's fair. So then during that time, you and Jack. But it was always me and Jack. Right. If I'm honest, my older sister didn't really ever acknowledge me and my brother.

41:46She was just in her own world doing her own thing. Okay. Okay. And I do, to a certain extent, if I'm honest, feel as though she was embarrassed of us. Of you and Jack or the whole family? The whole family. because of how you were for what reason how you were living or I'll never really truly understand it just felt that way I you know like we're very different everything I am she's not everything she is I'm not you couldn't be more polar opposite We're like oil and water. If I can ask, and stop me at any point, but the reason why I do want to proceed down this road a little bit is because I have two boys.

42:43So one is younger than the other. And I can see how the younger one wants the admiration from the older one. He won't admit it. I will tell you it's one of the hardest things in my life that I never got a big sister. and I had to learn how to do certain things that a big sister should have taught you on my own. Yeah. And I do have a resentment there. I'll have that forever. That's fair. Is there hope? No. For a reconciliation? No. No. Okay. No. Okay. All right, fair. I just, I respect her. I accept her. But we're different, and that's okay. Yeah. It is. You know, with family, I think it's interesting because I think there's an assumption that because you share blood, everything should be shared.

43:50But I think the beauty in life is that you have an opportunity to also select who your family is. Oh, God, how do I say this without sounding like a bitch? If you're not going to accept me for who I am and constantly be trying to change me and say horrible things about me and truly seem to thrive when I'm not doing well, I don't want you in my life. Okay, okay. Can I go back then? Mm-hmm. Because the decision to participate in this project, you still have to say yes, you want to. I was so excited. So there's no question? No. I was like, yep, count me in. Okay. But now there had never been anything like that before.

44:49So what did you think you were signing up to? Had no idea. Honestly had no idea. I was just like, I'm going to be on MTV. This is cool as fuck. Okay. And Jack was the same. Yeah. And me and my brother, we grew up very close. Very, very, very, very close. And we did everything together. We shared a room together. We shared clothes, like everything. It was always me and Jack. And when we were little, people used to think we were twins, but, you know, because we looked a lot alike and just we did everything together yes yes all right all right so that's the decision so you were in jack was in yeah uh your father was in now your mother because you she might not have been at some of the other uh mtv uh so spring break etc but it sounds like she was behind the scenes she was she was orchestrating it no she she was doing all that stuff in the behind the scenes but then when she knew she had to be a part of it because it's the family situation she She was totally on board with it.

45:54Then she was on board too. Yeah. And the rule was as long as we had the rights to confirm the edits and there was nothing in there that we didn't want in there, film whatever you want. Wow. Okay. Okay. So now can I show you something? It's good. This is a good one. Okay. This is a good one. Well, it's always interesting to see how everyone reflects. This is a photo. So take a look at this. Do you remember that photo? I remember this photo being taken. It's weird how it's only now I look at it, and if you look at my eyes, I just look so sad. When was that photo taken? This was taken after we'd filmed the first season, and I think it was for, like, People magazine or TV Guide.

46:48Come on, TV Guide, that's good. Yeah, and like, I didn't have the concept of like, when someone took a picture of me, it would be so widely used. And it would be the gift that keeps on giving that I have to relook at for the rest of my life. And it was just like, you can clearly see, like, look at my brother's face. Look at me like, we had no idea what we were doing. Yeah. When I look at this photo, I see two kids that look like they have no clue how they got to where they are. Exactly. Were you lost?

47:29I was not lost. I was just along for the ride. Okay. Because I never knew where it could take me. And I really enjoyed meeting the people that I met and the places that I got to go and the opportunities it allowed me and the world I've been able to see as a result of it. I will never take that for granted. Okay. Okay. Now, the Osbournes, from what I understand, certain episodes or actually you probably know the numbers much better. Do you know that I've never watched all of them? You never? Have you watched any of them? Some of them. We started to do this series called Basement Tapes. And we watched, I think, the first one and a half seasons.

48:11And I was like, oh, my God. I just kept looking at my parents being like, I'm so sorry. Really? I'm so sorry. Like, I was a fucking brat. I get why people had the opinion of me that they did. but people couldn't see past that to the wounded child inside, if you know what I mean. Yes, I do. I do. And it, you know, I'm in AA, but I'm also in ACA, which is Adult Children of Alcoholics. And it digs deeper into, it's a 12-step program as well, But it digs deeper into the inner child. And the things that happened led you to the belief system you have, which led you to your actions and your consequences.

49:11Yes. And it started to make me realize, oh, that's why I felt that way. Or that's why I did that. Or that's how I ended up there. and you start to heal the inner child and it's a lot i will tell you it's a lot harder than a i believe it and and you have to and you start to learn to love your parents in a whole new way yeah because prior to this mammoth show right which i saw some of the stats eight million people watching. I mean, you think about 8 million who... Nobody watched that on MTV. What shows gets 8 million people watching? You know, you think of some of the largest shows today, like Love Island, for example.

49:59It's not even that big. You know, so this was a mammoth show. Mammoth show. And then on top of it, from what I understand is, so you had an addiction prior to the show. And you just escalated. It just went up and up and up and up and up. So the first day that the show comes out, what is that day like for you? Because your world must have changed. I woke up and I wanted to go to Tower Records. I can't even remember because the show came out on a Wednesday and usually new music came out on a Tuesday. Yeah. And I wanted to go get a new CD. and I can't remember, I can't even remember which one it was, but I was like, someone's following me.

50:56And I got really scared and I called my manny, Big Dave, who still works with us, and I was like, Dave, someone's following me, I don't understand what's going on. I had no idea that it was Pokorazzi. I'm like, why would they want to take a picture of me? Like, I didn't get it. And I then very quickly realized that every single thing in my life was under a microscope. Everything. And how did you make that realization? Because I couldn't go anywhere without security anymore. I couldn't do anything without just people just – it was like a mini form of Beatles mania, if I can put it that way. like we'd go to a hotel and there'd be like hundreds of people waiting outside the hotel and they'd have to put velvet ropes out to keep people away so that the other people staying in the hotel could come in and out and you know it I had fans like I had people that like like I get messages to this day that that if I knew back then what I was doing to help like a subculture of women yes I would have felt so much better about myself like I get these letters all the time like when I was a kid like you were the only one like me and you gave me so much hope and that I could just be myself and I loved the way that you dress and that you were so unapologetic and you stated what you felt.

52:35And, well, on one hand I was being labeled a sport brat for it. The other hand was I was helping other people and women feel confident to be themselves. Right. But you didn't feel that way at the time. No, I didn't know. You didn't know. You didn't know. Was it, but it must have been at points, many points, a dream. Like it must have been fun. No, I will tell you, the first two seasons was a dream. It was amazing. Like we got invited to everything. We got to do whatever we wanted. I mean, there wasn't a thing that was going on in the world that we were not invited to. and people wanted us everywhere and as I said like it was great we got to meet incredible people and travel the world and we had fun but then the drug addiction got too much for me and my mom got cancer and the thought of losing my mom at that age and how sick she was and having to do go through all that on camera and it was it was just it was awful like it changed the whole trajectory of my life to a certain extent because I got the role as playing Lindsay Lohan's best friend in Freaky Friday.

54:10I went through the fittings. Everything was about to show up the first day of rehearsals. And I quit because I thought if my mum was going to die, I don't want to be sat here on a movie set all day. I want to be with my mum. Goodness, how old were you at that time? 17? Yeah, yeah. And that was, that would have, I mean... That would have changed the trajectory of my career and my life and where I went and what I did. and what I would have been today. But I do believe I made the right choice. Yeah. I could see that one value that's remained consistent for you is family, without question. That's something that you do.

54:52I've never been ashamed of my family. We are not conventional, but we are honest. I am like my father in the sense where I wear my heart on my sleeve. I can't pretend. I am who I am, you love me or you hate me. What my father did besides his music was create a place for the misfits, the unwanted, the unique, the different, the...

55:28People who felt like they didn't belong. A place to belong. It wasn't just about the music. It was a whole culture. I mean, Ozzfest was insane. Yes. It was the most fun summer camp you could ever imagine being on. And it just, it was heavy metal at its finest. and it allowed people to be themselves and express themselves the way they want to express themselves because back then being goth in any way was considered like, you're a devil worshiper. Right. And it just, it wasn't as accepted, but he brought all of these people together and after he passed I received so many letters from people who told me you know your dad made me believe that I could do it too and made me believe I was good enough and that there was a place for me and that's how I want to continue his legacy by creating spaces like that yes and I could see that you got that earnestly from your father because when I reflect back and think about you as a teenager at least you know from look from the outside looking in is I always thought you were highly confident in your individuality yes right when it came to what beauty was I was not confident.

57:08You were not. But your view of yourself was what? That I didn't deserve it and that I was ugly.

57:18Okay. Can we unpack both of those? Yes. Let's start with I didn't deserve it. I've always watched my parents work so hard. And all I did was sit there and let someone film me, just being myself. I didn't consider it work. It wasn't until I started my musical career and my own TV projects and having bosses and HR and all that kind of stuff that I started to realize, you know, like the difference in work. And I've always I am quite a workaholic. I don't feel like I have enough purpose if I don't have a reason to get up out of bed every day and someone to answer to. Right. And, you know, since having my baby, losing my father and my mind, I'm finally back in a place where I'm like, okay, I'm ready to be the me that I truly am.

58:15Like, I do not think I am ugly. I do not think I am fat. I do not think I am worthless. I know my value. I think it's now my time to shine. and not have to toe the family line, if you know what I'm saying. Yes. Yes. Because you felt like you've had to toe that the entirety of your life. The entirety of my life has always been families first. And there's a pecking order. And I don't want that anymore. I just want to do what I want to do. Yes. Yes. Yes. And so I can understand now when you say as a teenager you didn't feel deserving of it. And then you also mentioned you didn't feel beautiful. So help me with that because you are by the public stand.

59:10Well, correct me if I'm wrong here is that there's a lot of demand for you. There's a lot of desirability for you at that time. People are absolutely obsessed with my physical appearance in a way that I don't understand. I don't understand why me. Because as I said to you before, it's not like I put myself out there as like I'm a sexy girl or I'm a supermodel or, you know, like I've always just been me. Right. So why are you trying to make me out to not be good enough to be that when I've never tried to be that? It never made sense to me. So as a teenager, you're then, what, reading articles about?

59:57I couldn't read them. You couldn't read them. But articles were coming out. And they were horrible. And mostly then about how you looked. Yeah. They still are. Why do you think there is an obsession specifically with your weight? I have no idea. I wish I knew the answer to that question because I don't get it. It's like I'm not allowed to be skinny or I'm not allowed to be pretty or I'm not allowed to – like the accusations of plastic surgery and the accusations of weight loss jabs and everything like that. Like I am full transparency about what I have and have not done. I don't have anything to hide and I also don't think that there's no shame in the game like if you want to look a certain way go ahead go be you yeah why is there such like animosity towards the fat trap or getting a nose job or getting your boobs enlarged or smaller or whatever it is if it makes you feel more comfortable and you feel more beautiful why should anyone else have a problem with it right and and without question with the guests that i speak with is disproportionately this judgment is happening at women disproportionately oh it's just always you will never read an article in the daily mail mail that says let's say it's hugh grant hugh Grant did blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

1:01:27If it was me, it'd be Kelly Osbourne, 41. Yes. Yes, you're right. Age will be in there. The age will be in there and then they'll say something about my body. Yes. But they don't do that to men. Yeah. But I'm trying to understand why you were pinpointed. Even in the research, I was thinking, what's the reason? I still don't understand it. Yeah. I still don't understand it. Well, maybe because when you look at other people, like rock stars, Daughters like you've got like Liptailo who's like gorgeous and like all these different musicians daughters who've ended up being models and I wasn't. This is interesting Kelly.

1:02:10That's interesting. That wasn't me. And I think that that was a bit baffling for them.

1:02:24but I didn't want to be that. No. Do you think there's part, and this is just me thinking out loud now, because this is really interesting, what you're saying to me. I could see this, and I think there also could be this, and then what makes her think that she's all that? Exactly. You know what I mean? Exactly. You know? Because the truth is I fucking was.

1:02:47Yes. I was. Yes. And some. Yes. I just wasn't the same as everyone else. Yes. Yeah. And that's why so many people adored you. Like my wife. You know what I mean? Truly. This really, you don't know what this means to me, this letter. I will tell her. And I'm definitely coming over for lunch. Okay. All right. And you'll meet Peter Gabriel, too. Yeah.

1:03:14Just a heads up, this next part includes discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. Now, you mentioned also something that we have to talk about. As you said, the addiction then, it then became even more. Specifically right around the time when your mother had the cancer diagnosis. So with the addiction, was your mother, was your father, was your brother, were they aware? No. I mean maybe but we were all going through our own personal hell What about because you're filming at this time as well I mean there was a couple of crew members That got fired because they refused to film My father in the state he was in

1:04:01They you know it was It was rough And I was looking around my house thinking My dad is so bad right now And my mom is so sick right now If my mom dies I'm going to fucking kill myself because I can't live like this. Like, this is too much. Did you genuinely consider taking your life? It was a thought. I suffer from SI, which is suicidal ideations, and I had no idea until I was in my 30s that that was not normal. Okay. And it was something where, like, I truly believed that I wasn't good enough, that whenever anything bad happened, And the first thought was, clear stuff. And I'm like, it wasn't until I got properly diagnosed with what that was and given the right literature and therapy and explanation and everything that came along with being diagnosed with that and being put on the right medication.

1:05:02Like, I never have a thought like that now. Ever. But it was like a daily thing for me my entire life. I thought everyone thought that. Wow, okay. I didn't know that that wasn't normal. Okay, so you have this ideation going on compounded with the addiction. And depression and anxiety and ADHD and dyslexia. I mean, I've got all of it. OCD. I mean, I also have CPTSD. and it's just, you know, I've been through a lot for one person. Absolutely. For many people. For many people. And I'm now seeing a house in turmoil. You know, what was the reason why you all decided to end the series? Because from what I understand is it was super successful.

1:06:00It was still at the – it was like we – because the thing is, there's nowhere to go but down and we wanted to end on a high and we wanted to have our lives back and i wanted to figure out what i wanted to do with my life and that took me a minute and it's only just now in my 40s that i feel like i'm free to do that okay and And it's, you know, because there are some people that still see me as that 16-year-old. And I'm like, wait, I'm like, they really do not believe that I am the age that I am. And half of me is like, ha-ha, that's great. I'll take it. I'll take it. And the other half is like, but come on, like, people grow up.

1:06:52Right. People change. Right. Life happens. Yeah. And that project, I mean, that show was so larger than life. I think that's what throws everyone, everyone, they hear your name, they go back to that time. But even in doing the research for you coming in, what I had no idea is from that moment to now, you have been working. I've never not worked. I mean, the credits are just the shows, the projects. It is dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of projects. So when you look across where you're trying to figure your way, right, what were you discovering about yourself as you would take on new projects?

1:07:39Like, I remember watching on Fashion Police. I thought you were fabulous on that. So it was the best working years of my life was with Joan Rivers and getting to be her little apprentice and having the honor of sitting next to her and working with her every day and talking to her every day and learning from her every day. I mean, it was incredible. She was such a vital part of who helped me become who I am today. Yes. And God, do I miss her. The world became an unfunny place when she left. I can imagine with Joan Rivers, I can imagine that she must have commanded the space that she was in. But people didn't realize how generous and how respectful and how grateful and how well she treated everybody.

1:08:39and she'd always say, she'd always hold my hand and she'd say, honeybee, look how lucky we are. And then we'd start the show. That's how it would start. All these people are here because we get to do this. And she never took anything for granted. That's a great lesson. It's a great lesson. So as you're having these experiences with these incredible people, what are you discovering about yourself because i'm good enough on my own yeah that i don't need i don't need to just be your response daughter i'm my own person i i with them i'm great without them i'm great i can do it on my own yes and i've never relied upon them for that i just went out and did my own thing yeah that's how i felt i felt like you're you could see confidence right your assurance in your skill set was just growing and growing and growing and now it's got to a point where I'm like I am so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me I get to say who I am you don't

1:09:58and if I fuck up I'll earn it and we move on yes yes so who Who is Kelly Osbourne today? Losing my father, it has taught me that there is such an honour in grief because

1:10:26I loved somebody, I was capable, I am capable of loving someone so much that I lost my mind. I was a shell of myself. I couldn't speak. I couldn't eat. I couldn't do anything. I was just empty. Broken in every way a human being could possibly be broken.

1:11:02and completely unable to even take care of myself. I was at ground zero. I started drinking again. I lost my mind. I couldn't handle it. But I can honestly say today I'm eight months sober. I have the most incredible people around me. I closed my circle because I lost a lot of friends because people don't like sadness and they expected me to be over it and I will never be over it I'll never ever be over it are you comfortable with us talking in detail about the relationship with with you and your father because you know what I what I find I tell you I think you will appreciate this is when I was coming in today, right?

1:11:59See, the whole house was excited about you, Kelly. It wasn't only my wife. I asked my son, who's 12 years old, Liam, I said, have you ever heard of Ozzy Osbourne? And you know what he said? He said, yeah, I have. He's that guy. He's that rocker guy and a dad. so at 12 my son says okay i know of this guy he's a rocker and he's a dad yeah that was profound to me yeah very very it hit me deep because that's actually how i always saw your father as this incredible musician, but always a dad. He was. And I want to show you this. And I want you to tell me in this, here it is, what is the first thought that comes to mind when you see this?

1:13:09I'll give that to you.

1:13:16I miss him.

1:13:22I miss his smell. And his five o 'clock shadow on my cheek. And how safe I felt whenever he gave me a cuddle. And how I knew that if he was there, nothing bad would happen.

1:13:46He'd always make me laugh.

1:13:52I remember where this picture was taken as well. I was never an adult to my dad. I was always, you know, he always treated me like I was still his baby.

1:14:10But, like, I told him everything. We were very, very, very, very close. We had a different relationship than he had with his other children.

1:14:29And sometimes that made my life very difficult.

1:14:35But he always hurt my back, always.

1:14:42Like, always. It definitely, from the outside looking in, it appeared as if there was a unique relationship that you and your father had. It was, I can, the only way that I can explain it to you is I'm the female version of him in personality wise. I got all his good things and I got all his bad things too.

1:15:12But we were just so similar. He taught me what unconditional love was. I consider myself so lucky because I have so many friends that just don't have that with their dads. I know he, like, the love he had with my mother, there was nothing like that. They set a standard that I don't think I will ever be able to reach. Do you know what I mean? Like, that love is magic. That love is what movies are made of. Like, it's insane. Their story, what they've been through together, what they, you know, how much, like, they didn't do anything without each other. You know, like, he couldn't survive without her, she couldn't survive without him.

1:16:04But here she is, without him, and I have to check in on how is she doing? How is she getting by? She's getting a little bit stronger every day. I will say night time's the worst for her because that was their favorite time of day. They just talk about everything they did that day and catch up and watch whatever they wanted on telly and after spending 50 years of your life side by side, with someone to know they're being an empty space. I can't even imagine how painful that is. But she's getting through. She's a lot stronger than anyone can ever give her credit for. Yes. And there are so many people that love her and are there for her and me being one of them.

1:17:04Like my dream for my mum, I'm like, sell everything. Get your dream house. Buy whatever you want to buy yourself. Go wherever you want to go in this world and have a good time. Stop working. What are you working for? It's your time now. Have fun.

1:17:33Go and do whatever you want to do. What makes you happy. Be around the people that make you laugh. Stop worrying about us. We are our own responsibility now. We're all in our 40s. It is not up to you to save us from anything. Go live your life. You deserve it. She deserves it more than anybody I know.

1:18:04And I wish that for her. I hope that she gets there. Yes, yes. But, you know, as a mom, you always be thinking about your children. That's true. She can be selfish, too. Yes. Yes. Well, let's hope that she is. Send her my love. I will do. She loves you. I really adore your mom. Something that I said off camera, but I just want to say on is that many years ago, I was on The Talk, and your mother was one of the hosts of The Talk. and she truly helped me and she was kind to me when she didn't have to be. She mama bared you. She mama bared me and she was able to allow me to become more confident in myself in the moment and I'll never forget that.

1:18:54What I find really interesting about someone who's super successful, so your father at the end of the day is one of the most famous musicians that's ever walked this earth, you know? Incredibly talented, incredibly hard worker, right? I've read about his work regime. And you often hear the stories about men who are uberly successful, who, in essence, prioritize their work over their family. It was the opposite of that. Exactly. That, it didn't, it never felt that way. Yeah, it always felt that way. That's why we were always there. That's why I grew up on talk. That's why we were a unit. What do you think allowed him to want to live his life that way?

1:19:53I think my mom had a lot to do with it.

1:19:58You know, my mom was his manager as well, so she had to be there too. And she didn't want us to be raised by nannies. They wanted to raise us. So along we went. And it was just, as they say, a different time.

1:20:21But it was amazing. and like just

1:20:32I'm grateful for every second, every moment, every hardship, you know, even when it was bad I'm grateful for it because he was my dad Yes, what did you learn through the bad times? Because you've mentioned, you know, you've been here in this conversation the challenge that your father had with addiction. And you think that you might have even gotten that gene from him. So I'm sure that you've seen him in some terrible positions. What did you learn about addiction and pain in the tough times as you observed and you lived those with him?

1:21:17So he was like me. he wasn't he ended up becoming the wild man as a result of it but it was to numb the pain the insecurity the constant thought of not being good enough there were times where there would be like 50 ,000 people waiting for him to go on stage and he'd be like did anyone show up and we'd be like are you fucking nuts there's 50 ,000 people out there. They're all here for you. The concept of his own fame never ever ever truly hit him. Really? His final show. Up until the day he died, he said, I just can't believe people like me that much. I didn't know people liked me that much. And we'd be like,

1:22:18what don't you get about it? Like you you are you. And he's like but he never left Aston. He was always that working class hero from Birmingham. He never thought he was better than anyone else. That's fascinating. It's fascinating. When you saw him get the star, the Walk of Fame, that's a moment where a lot of people feel like, okay, I've made it. Yeah. How did he respond to it? He was so excited. Okay, he was excited. He was so happy about that. He couldn't believe it. And it was so cool. And it was back when it really meant something. You know what I mean? Right now, I mean, I feel like you could just pay for one.

1:23:10I could probably fucking get one. but it's it was back when it really meant something still and it was right before I want to say his just around the time of his 50th birthday and it was just like the icing on the cake for him that he was on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and that he had really made it and it was like that when he met the Queen as well really? yeah he couldn't believe he met the Queen and there's a really funny story because Kermit the Frog was like trying to figure out whose shoulder he wanted to be on and you will see that he ended up on my dad's shoulder and it's Kermit the Frog, my dad and the queen and it's just the funniest picture and you look at his face and I think I remember him saying it's nice to meet you your royal majesticness because he got nervous and didn't know what to say.

1:24:09that's so good that's so good oh my gosh yeah yeah yeah i mean i you know one thing that i could see even with you telling these stories is in those moments just you know no cameras nothing it seems like there was a lot of laughter oh he's the funniest man you've ever met in your life because you think he doesn't hear anything you think he doesn't see anything but he saw everything. And let me tell you this. My dad knew he was going out. He knew he went out exactly the way he wanted to. And he was prepping me along the way. He was. And everything he told me would happen has happened. Everything he warned me of.

1:24:58Every person he told me to stay away from. Everything. and I was just like wow like you really didn't miss a beat did you yeah and the one

1:25:19one but the most meaningful thing he ever said to me is that

1:25:30he's he sat me down and this was about three days before he died he says tots and I said yes dada he said I need you to know something so what he goes no matter what happens in this life you can live the rest of your life knowing there was one man on this planet truly loved you, that truly loved you for every single thing you are and that my man is me and I started to cry and I said please don't talk like this please don't talk this because he said you know I'm not gonna be here forever and I know you struggle with people

1:26:29and actually believing that you are loved but I loved you more than anyone

1:26:39and three days later he was gone you know I I have these chills that keep coming over my body because as a parent, I can't imagine what it's like to have to sit, and you're a parent, and I can't imagine what that must feel like to know you have to prepare your child for that moment. I have to preface the story with my mum allowed him to die the happiest I'd ever seen him. All he wanted before he left this planet was one last show, one more time, to be able to let his fans know how grateful he was for the life they allowed him to have and how much he loved them and to say goodbye.

1:28:04And my mum worked herself to make that happen and it was one of the most incredible moments in music history there'll never be anything like that again I mean in my eyes in the world of rock and roll out there was even Woodstock

1:28:25because it was all the people that got to be who they are because of him coming to pay tribute to him and he got to say goodbye and he got to say thank you and that's all he wanted to do and then you let go shortly thereafter so that was that was two weeks after yeah they told him if you do this show you'll die. Really? Mm-hmm. And he chose to do it anyway? Mm-hmm. Because it meant more to him than anything. And he was suffering so much. His day-to-day life

1:29:23it was insufferable. Like, it wasn't nobody should have to live like that to be in that much pain and be unable to walk and like your mind is all there but your body just doesn't work so this is the Parkinson's Parkinson's and the botched surgery they did on his neck okay and the surgery came about because he fell out of bed and broke his neck Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so you mentioned that your mother had to make all this happen. And your mother is really someone who I'd love to spend some time. She's incredible. She's like a superhero. You know, what I look outside in, once again, is I'm a big fan of your mother.

1:30:20She's great. Big, big fan of your mother. Just don't piss her off.

1:30:27Yeah, I was going to say, I've heard your mother does some wild things. Oh, yeah. To people that she's upset about. All right, so is this, all right, we have to go there then. Okay. Is this rumor or fact? Go on. If you piss off your mom to a certain degree, she will send you a Tiffany box with a special gift inside. This was in like the 80s and 90s. and when the party came out we knew that somebody had pissed mum off and she'd make us sit there until we pooped oh it was yours yep are you serious yes and then she would put it in a Tiffany box have it wrapped up and deliver message it as if it was from Tiffany's to whoever it would be and it would be a shit in a Tiffany box that is yep that's wild that's pretty that it was yours too It was at the Minel Jacks, yeah.

1:31:23That's wild. That's wild. But to me, though, what I love about that is there's a, like, mama bear fierceness that says, don't mess with mine, you know. But when I think back to the Osbournes, though, I just remember you and your mom just yelling at each other. Was that a true depiction of the relationship early on? I mean, early on, yeah, because I was, like, defiant and thought I knew everything. I mean, I had my baby, and my baby was not on me, my chest, doing skin to skin for more than maybe three seconds. And I just looked over at my mum, and I mouthed the words, I'm sorry. Because it was like the speed of light, all of these thoughts just came to my head, and I was just like, I put my mum through hell.

1:32:17Now I get it. I get it now and she was like what she's looking at me like I'm nuts because I'm crying and looking at her and knowing the words I'm sorry but it was just like everything made sense in that instant isn't it something you've already mentioned this too is that as we get older we realize our parents were always right oh I know it's so annoying but it's true it's so annoying but it's true yeah it's like they were right And we should have just listened. We should have just listened. So this whole time you're telling your mom, no, you're wrong, right? I don't do that anymore. Yeah. But then, but also too is with your mother.

1:32:59So your mother was your father's manager. And is that how their relationship started as well? Pretty much, yeah. Okay. So my mother's father was my dad's original manager. And when he got fired from Black Sabbath, my mom had to go and take him the paperwork and found him in a hotel. And he was a mess. But she saw the talent in him. And she couldn't leave him the way he was. And so she said to him, I'll take you on and let's see what we can do. And she helped create his other career. Look at that. And then when they found out that my mother's father was stealing from my dad, they had to leave. They left with two suitcases and nothing and had to start all over again.

1:34:09Look at that. No money. No money. and they did it they built it from the ground up okay did they ever tell you at what point they fell in love my mom's best friend did she was there the first time they kissed it was at the Roxy on Sunset and to this day she's still not my mom's best friend her name's Belle and she was a waitress there and then she became a big Hollywood agent and And originally my mom tried to hook my dad up with Belle. And then Belle was like, nah, I think you two have got something going on. And it just happened. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so beautiful when something just happens.

1:34:59It's meant to be against all forces, especially knowing that they had no money, right? They had to build from the ground up. And my grandfather was a scary man, let me tell you. like a very very scary man I didn't even know he existed until I was 13 really? yeah didn't have no idea okay okay so therefore and I mean not to go too deep on your but your grandfather was Don Arden the original music mogul of the United Kingdom but like mob style hanging people off of the roof of buildings until they give him what he wants kind of thing. Okay. Friends with the Kray Twins, all of that situation, crowd.

1:35:49Okay. I see. I see. All right. And, I mean, now I'm actually seeing your father in a different light because he had to succeed with that opposition. With the opposition of Black Sabbath going out on their own with a new singer, with the opposition of going against the only thing he ever knew, starting fresh and

1:36:29finding it within himself to believe that he could do it and I think that that was because of my mom yeah look at that that gives me a whole new perspective on their love your father I mean you'll never see it people talk about twin flames and soulmates and true love that's what they had Yes. Your mother managed anyone prior to that? Yeah. Okay. She'd been managing ELO and the band called the Choir Boys and Smashing Pumpkins. Okay. She managed quite a few people. I mean, I'm probably listing just like a few of them, but yeah. Okay. Okay. So then with your mother and father together, as a business partnership, as a romantic partnership, they became formidable.

1:37:26Right. But then through the years, I saw that your mother really became a brand within herself. Exactly. And so how did the family balance that? Because your mother became quite famous. In her own right. In her own right. I'll be really honest with you. At first, I don't think my dad liked it very much. Because he was always, you know, the number one. But then I think he learned to love how much people loved my mom as much as he did. Okay.

1:38:08And that they recognized her greatness too. and he begun to become very proud of her because, you know, I don't think my mom ever saw herself in the spotlight and then all of a sudden she was. Look at that. Yeah. That's so interesting. She was always the behind-the-scenes woman that built the stage that he performed on, you know what I'm saying? Yes. And then they should do it.

1:38:48So as that's happening, you and Jack, right, are obviously your stardom is rising. Now, Jack, we haven't spent, I think, giving him his due. Jack is someone who, it's interesting, I resonated, I think probably being boys, I resonated with Jack, right? And to me, there was something super lovable, you know, like uberly lovable about Jack. But I understand Jack has gone through his challenges as well, also having multiple sclerosis. And so how have you as his sister, someone who many people thought was his twin at a certain point, you spent so much of your life together. How have you been able to balance the relationship knowing the challenges that he's gone through, in particular health challenges that he's gone through?

1:39:46Jackie will never let you know if he's going through a health challenge. I've learned to see the signs. I'll see one of his eyes going like this, and I'm like, oh, he's stressed. Something's going on. but he leads a very, very healthy life. He is incredibly dedicated to his children. Me living here now and choosing to separate myself a little and kind of rediscover myself, it's not like it's caused a wedge between us, But I would say that the family's a little bit upset that I have decided to go home and figure out me for a while. and I get it because like I don't want to miss out on anything that my nieces are doing but I also I'm a mother and I have my own responsibilities and my own life to live and I'm taking this time to be a bit selfish okay okay so this is the era of selfishness but appropriate selfishness.

1:41:17Yeah. You know, how do you, one area that we have to talk about, and I'm wondering, how do you manage this is motherhood? I don't, I'm telling you, I deserve an Oscar. Because I, if I'm ever crying and my son sees me, I explain to him that I miss Papa. And he knows how much Papa meant to me. And he, Papa meant a lot to him. And he walks out there every day to say hello to him. Does he? And leave a flower or a feather or something he's found in the garden. And he talks to him and he'll sing to him. And he'll tell him stories.

1:42:03And it's beautiful. for but to go through this and realize that I have to go through this but I have to put him first your son my son first yeah you know you get really good at acting you get really good at quick cries in the bathroom with the door closed and then wipe the tears away and take a deep breath and go back into play mode because he's too young to feel those feelings what what has your your son taught you you know about life you know because i was i think that the greatest it's so interesting because you look at um we're you know depending on where you look fewer people are having children right i just want more yeah it's exact it's like It's the best thing in the fucking world.

1:43:02And everyone I say to my friends that haven't had kids yet, I'm like, you're missing out. You don't understand purpose. You don't understand patience. You don't understand love until you've had a kid. Yes. Until you have a reason. It gave me such purpose. It gave me such an – I mean, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. Like, I always wanted to be a mom. Okay, you've always wanted me. Okay. But I never realized how fulfilling being a mother would be. I never realized I was even, that I could feel like that. I think also, we were talking about this when you walked in, is he looks an awful lot like your dad.

1:43:53I look a lot like my dad. And I think that he looks a lot like my dad. He's got my dad's smile, and it's one of my greatest joys that I get to see my dad smile every day. Yeah. Yeah. With his naughty little munchkin face. Yeah. It's good. It's good. How do you then believe that you're going to manage these conversations around addiction? I have to be very open with my child from an age where I believe it is appropriate to start talking about. Okay. Okay.

1:44:26Because, first of all, I believe that everyone should be in some form of 12-step program, whether it's addiction or not. It just gives you a guideline to be a better person. So with this, this is a topic that you will broach at the appropriate time with him? We're not there yet, thank God. You know? But I am fully prepared for when he is because I have to be honest with him. My father was always honest with me. Always. Yeah. It seems like you grew up with a very high level of transparency. And I can see the benefit. And actually, that's something that my wife and I, what we try to do with our boys is lead with transparency.

1:45:09You have to. Yeah. Because otherwise, they're going to find out from someone else who's not going to tell them the way that you think that they should hear it. And it's just you don't get to control the narrative, if you know what I mean. Exactly. Exactly. And I think as parents who have been there, done it, we can advise. And look, I won't deny I had some great times on drugs, but they only led to more pain, sorrow and misery.

1:45:40I don't I don't you know, I have a reason. I have a son. And he means more to me than anything in the world. And there's nothing that is going to stop me from being the best mother I can be to him. Yeah, there you go. So like a mother in love? Mm-hmm. I have one more photo. You're going to like this. Okay. One more photo. Hold on, you can't look. Can't look. Okay, ready? Okay, I want to go. All right, this is a surprise.

1:46:07I want you to... Oh. We have to give her her space. Miss Dolly. I didn't realize the relationship that you had with Dolly Parton. Would you be open to talking about it? Yeah. I mean, first of all, huge fan my whole entire life. I truly believe that she paved the way for women to be whoever they wanted to be. she wore what she wanted and she broke down doors while wearing high heels you know what i'm saying yes she her her philanthropy she gave back more than she

1:47:00like received if you know what i mean like what she did for literacy what she's done for the black community in America, what she's done for families that can't afford the cost of living. Like, it just goes on and on and on and on and on. The amount of people's lives she's changed because she wanted to. Like, I can't think of very many people who were born into this world and left it a better place than they found it. But Dolly Parton sure did. and I had the honor of working with her a couple times. We have the same management and it's just, she was honestly one of the kind, you know when you say don't meet your idols?

1:47:53Yes. I say that unless it was Ozzy Osbourne or Dolly Parton

1:48:01because they were who they said they were. I mean, she looked after everyone, and if you ever got the opportunity to see the inner workings of how it all went down in Nashville and how every member of her family had a job, whether it be part of her security, design team, whatever it was, like, she made sure everybody was taken care of. I don't think I've ever met a more generous human being in my life. And it was true what she said about being a billionaire. Which is what? I'm trying to remember exactly. It was something like, if you're a billionaire, then you're doing it wrong. Okay. Because nobody needs that much money.

1:48:46I mean, I knew her work schedule. She'd wake up at four in the morning. she'd spend two hours writing every day. Really? Mm-hmm. Okay. Do her morning little routine and workout and phone calls and then do what work she had planned for that day. And family always came first. And she just was like, it was like being in the presence of an angel if you were around her. Yes. Yes. She seemed very angelic. She was amazing. You know, I know that she was really short, wasn't she? She was a little petite thing. A little petite thing. Is it true, I think she said this once, but I don't know if this was just misinterpreted, that she would go to sleep with her makeup on?

1:49:40Yeah. Really? She didn't have makeup artists. She did her own makeup. Did she? Yeah, but we did share the same hairdresser. Okay, okay. All right, fair enough. And it's interesting because I don't know much about, say, her music. Some of her acting, right? I mean, nine to five. I'm sorry. I'm like, all her acting stuff is great. I'm like, masterpieces. Right. So those pieces I don't know a lot about. But you know what? When it comes to philanthropy, that's what I know her for. It's insane, right? Yeah, that's what I know her for. Yeah. The fact that you can get one free book for your child is, I think it's like a week or a month.

1:50:22I can't remember, but it's been millions of books. She's improved the literacy of children throughout America in a way that nobody has ever been capable of doing.

1:50:38Dolly Parton. May she rest in peace. Yeah. I'll hold on to that one. Thank you. Thank you. For sure. So now, Kelly, we've been talking for quite some time. We've covered many, many topics. Yeah. It's now the new chapter. No, this feels like a new book. The new book, the new book of Kelly Osborne. Yeah. Right? I cannot wait to see. Thank you. What it holds for you. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm doing a three-part series documentary on grief and mental health. Okay. I'm going to do a new reality show. Are you? Mm-hmm. US, UK? UK. UK? Of course. Of course. But it will be worldwide. I am finally going to start my fashion brand again.

1:51:30Okay. I want to go into beauty products and makeup, but I want it to be makeup for everyone because I don't believe that it's just women that need makeup. Men deserve to feel pretty too. There you go. Hit us. We need it. You know what I'm saying? You need a bit of under eye concealer when you need it. You know what I'm saying? You need to de-shine when you want to. Can I say, my favorite product right now is, I'm not going to say the brand because they're not sending me. But it is a de-matifying, like it's a moisturizer. It de-matifies. Yeah. It's like, we need this. It's not fair. Why is it such a faux pas that men take care of themselves?

1:52:15That's what I'm saying. Come on. Hit me. It's like... Yes. And my whole thing is I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever create something that is not for everyone. It has to be cost effective in a way that is obtainable for everyone. I am not snooty. I'm not going to go and do a couture brand. I'm not going to have the price point be unobtainable. It's for everyone. Perfect time then for me to ask you the final question. Go on. Everyone gets it. Okay. I cannot wait to hear your answer. No, I'm scared. No, this is a good one. This is a really good one. So you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life.

1:53:00When you think about the most memorable, who was that conversation with and what did you learn? My dad.

1:53:15And I learned unconditional love. That's all I can say. That's fair. And honesty. Because he never lied to me. and I will keep his secrets till the day I die because he told me things no one else in the family knows. And I'll never tell because that was between me and him.

1:53:47You know, I have to say this is for someone, myself, who I've watched, and I've watched you through the years, but only through the landscape of TV and narratives. And mistakes. And, I mean, I've read the headlines. I've read the good and the bad and the indifferent. And the ugly. And the ugly, right? I've read them all. And I will say that I am, I feel honored to have spent this time with you. truly feel honored to have you know you said don't meet your idols right you're someone who I've looked up to for a variety of reasons and I'm walking away truly honored truly feeling blessed to have spent this time with you truly truly thank you truly Truly.

1:54:52And Kelly, what stands out to me most is you know what unconditional love feels like. You know what it means. I see how you extend it to people in your life. And I want to encourage you to continue to do that. I don't think I'll ever stop. And one thing that I definitely want you to know is there are an endless number of people who feel like I do, who feel like my wife does, who have adored you from the outside. And no matter what the comments were, no matter what the crazy headline was, no matter what the ugly commentary was, still loved you unconditionally. So always remember that. You asshole.

1:55:53And of course you would call me an asshole.

1:55:58I didn't think you were going to make me cry. Thank you. Yeah. Truly. Truly, truly. Truly. I didn't know if I'd be able to get through this interview. I didn't know. But I just put my faith in you because I think that what you do is so great and how you let people speak for themselves. And it was such an honor to spend this time with you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That concludes our interview. Come on, come on, come on. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'll tell you where I truly resonated with Kelly is when she said, what the passing of a loved one will do to you is it will change you.

1:56:48And there will be a version of you that you leave with that person that you'll never get again. And even though what she's saying may sound harsh to anyone who's not lost a loved one, it's fact. And I've been there. And I want us as a society to have more conversation, more honest conversation about death and about grief. Because when we do, we're able to actually reconcile and manage it better than living in a land of myth. Many people might forget that she was a little girl who, to her own words, was not lost, but she was just along for the ride and was hurt and was an addict. And that was before fame.

1:57:45So think about then what fame, extreme fame does to you. And a mentor used to always tell me that all of us, what we share in common is that we're either all heading to a storm, don't know it, or coming out of a storm. And the most important thing is if you're coming out of the storm to realize it because that way you can count your blessing. Kelly Osborne is someone who is coming out of a storm. She realizes it and she's counting her blessing. And it was just an honor to be able to share this moment with her. You became incredibly famous for pretending to be famous on Big Brother. But today, you are under threat.

1:58:27Yes, this has been a big deal for me to come here today. Can you take us to that storm? It was a celebrity Big Brother, but I was the only non-celebrity and had to pretend to be a celebrity as well. Big Brother has called Chantel to the dining room. So now you meet someone named Preston. Yes. Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house? We should never have got married. There was a moment where he walks out. Can you take me back to this moment? Um, so we were on this crazy ride. I walked into Big Brother with 80 pence in my bank account. And then next thing, I had one million pounds and, like, shaking Prince Charles' hand.

1:59:03Really? But I was just so lonely. I don't know why I'm getting upset now. God, I hate admitting this, because not a lot of people know this, but... How does that make you feel? I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. That version of me is gone, you know? Um, for me, it was the lies and the manipulation. It destroyed me in every single way possible. So why is it that you wanted to talk today, and why now? For many years, I stayed silent about what I was going through, and I don't want to hide anymore.