Kelsey Parker: I Was Never Part of Tom’s Plan! His Cancer Diagnosis Changed Everything.

34:21He'd self-taught himself production and had really gone down that route. Okay. So he's doing that. And then you are still building up your career. Yes, but also me and Tom had loads of businesses together. Tom would never do a business without me. Really? Okay, so what were the businesses? So we put a girl band together. We had a t-shirt company. What was the girl band name? Sweet Riot. Sweet Riot. Yeah, we really put everything into them. But it's just hard to break into the music industry. We had t-shirts, I said. And then obviously my whole passion since 21 is I set up a performing arts school.

35:04So Tom was always my biggest cheerleader with the performing arts school. He always came in and helped. And that has been an ongoing business. Okay. Look at that. Which is quite funny because any other business me and Tom did together didn't do well. But K2K is still going and I did that on my own. Tells you something. Yeah. But that's why I think he always needed me because his brain. Was just, yeah, he sounds, you know, uber creative. you know but needed someone to focus him yes yes so lots of businesses going on but life was wonderful life was wonderful at what point do you start talking about children um we had a window before the wedding so we did try and fall pregnant then and it didn't happen so got married and tom was actually on tour with greece the musical at the time he was playing Danny Zuko.

35:56Okay. So Tom being Tom, he was like, I don't think I can have kids. I'm like, well, you haven't really given it enough time, Tom. He's like, no, I just don't think I can have kids. Maybe I'm not capable. So he went and got himself checked out. This is so Tom. So when he was in Wales, he went to a clinic there. Well, he's got out to the reception, obviously, to get his bits, to go and get tested. Yes. And the lady went, oh, I saw you last night. Well, on stage. On stage. He was like, Kelsey, it was so embarrassing. Oh, my gosh. I love that he went to get himself, to get him checked because the fertility rates, literally, I mean, you know, this is terrible, but you look at men's sperm, right?

36:45You look at the fertility rates, it is just dropping off of a cliff. And it's because of many, many different reasons. but there's a stigma around men not wanting to go get themselves checked out because their fear i think the fear is they're not man enough yeah to you know to have to have children so therefore i'm not even going to go and so the fact that he said no let me goose let me just go check oh it's so tom though that's so tom yeah i love it so he checked and he checked so i think he went and And then literally we probably fell pregnant the next month after he got checked. Because I think, again, Tom's very mind, power of the mind.

37:30He's got the tick. He can have children. Then we fell pregnant. All right. So all of this is happening. This does feel like a dream, right? And then obviously the story takes a dramatic turn. so at what point do you first recognize that tom is ill um tom was always a really happy person life and soul um but he was very he very down also it's a weird time it's covid okay and this is 2020 yeah and tom was a rebel like i could i would have just hated to talk tom at school because if you're telling him to do something he's doing the opposite so even with the you've got to stay in you can go out your food shopping i mean he used to do ration adventures on his uh instagram it was tom going out and trying to get beans toilet roll he would go out in ski masks he was just absolutely hilarious wow wow so and we've got what was Aurelia then?

38:42She was about nine months wasn't she? Yeah. Okay. And I'm pregnant with my second child as well. Look at this. So we felt pregnant really, really quickly with Bodhi. So yeah, when she was about eight months, eight, nine months I was pregnant again. Went into lockdown and then he just he was complaining of um he just didn't feel right that was with the first thing okay he did change his diet as well so i was a bit like oh because this is this had a part to play um but he was just like look else i don't feel well i'm gonna take myself to the hospital again tom look at that so he took himself to the hospital and nothing came with that appointment i think they then had a follow-up appointment and they said that they'll do an mri scan okay so he went for an mri scan but by the time we'd got them results back he'd had a seizure when we went to norfolk on family holiday first seizure well i think he might have had one before but we didn't know that it was a seizure okay so then he in norfolk it it was just horrendous thank god we were with the family again pull another really weird story so two days before we've all gone out shopping and Tom was moaning he was saying that his ears were like hurting him so that my brother Max had done something in the car what was like crazy he was like made a loud and Tom was like oh my ear but I was you don't know do you I won't be like oh right you've got a brain tumour right anyway two days before we go to the shopping centre Johnny is a nightmare to shop with my stepdad so me and Tom are with him anyway he's gone shopping for these walking boots we've just left him in the shopping center because we said we can't deal with you we're gonna go over to the pub where everyone else is right so then it's like three hours later Johnny's not back or whatever two hours later Johnny comes in we're like where have you been he said when I was at the shopping center he said someone just had a seizure he said so I've had to put them in the recovery position and I've waited for an ambulance to come.

41:01But it only could happen to Johnny. So, yep. Two days later, I've gone upstairs with the baby, put the baby in the bed with Tom. He's going, Kel, my hands are so sweaty. My hands are so sweaty. And I turn my back and then look back at him again and he's having a seizure. Wow. Call for Johnny. He's done it before two days. It's fine. Yeah, Johnny knows what to do. Johnny comes up. My auntie runs in. Everyone runs in the room. I take the baby out of the room. They sort him out. called an ambulance. They're a bit like not wanting to come out to us, but we were like, look, he's never had this before.

41:35Please, can you come out? They came and looked at him and they went, we'll take him in, but don't pack him in, because he'll be out. So I was like, okay. Gave him a charger for his phone and off he went. Obviously, COVID times, couldn't go with him. Okay. So then he's gone in and they've done a CT scan. Okay. Did he stay overnight? Like, see, this is where it all just blurs a little bit for me. Anyway, Johnny, me and Johnny have gone up to the hospital. On the way to the hospital, the doctors have gone in, pulled a curtain around on Tom and said to him, you've got a brain tumour. Wow. With no one there, no support, nothing.

42:14Just him. Just him. And Tom is a sensitive soul. So he's rung me up, obviously beside himself. I'm, like, not there to assess the situation. I don't know what anything is. um got there and then went and tom's obviously emotional i'm comforting tom they told me that they've seen something on the scans he has got a tumor of some sort we don't know what it is they're going to keep him in for more tests johnny went off and spoke to the team he was fantastic so then they kept him overnight and they did another did they do an mri then i I've done an MRI then um can I ask a question here because when he's told this is the first time that he's become aware yeah this is serious yeah right and he's by himself and he calls you so you said he's emotional sounds like he's crying yeah what are you thinking in that moment I just this this is your best friend this is your lover this is the father of your children what are you thinking i just didn't even know what to think i think it's more oh my god because i did not see that coming i did not think that they were going to say to him you've got a brain tumor so i think i was completely blindsided okay um and then what so everyone left the holiday home and I had to wait for obviously Tom to be finished with his scams.

43:44And me and my mum went to a shopping centre and Joey was just thinking, I just can't focus on anything. I actually could not focus on anything because I'm thinking, what are these results going to actually be? We know that he's got a brain tumour. What else are we going to see? Is it a benign brain tumour? Is it a malignant brain tumour? And then they call me when I'm in the shopping centre and they said it is a brain tumor obviously straight away i'm like well how long can i pick him up right is he you just don't know my brain went to what is he gonna die now like what even is this and um they said look and this is always stuck with me what this doctor said he said everybody's body is different and we will all react to things certain treatments he said i I could not tell you how long he's got.

44:39As in like, that was him giving me hope, wasn't it? To be like, I don't know what Tom's got. So I went and picked Tom up, but actually, so Tom had a Range Rover that he absolutely loved. It was his pride and joy. He loved his cars. Well, I'm in this car park. I'm actually a really good driver. I've gone to pull out of this car parking space and I've taken the whole side of the car out on a barrier. I was like, oh my God, I was thinking, this is the only time I'm ever gonna get away with smashing his car up without him losing his shit with me. Yeah, because he won't care at all. He did not care.

45:19When I picked him up, I was like, I smashed the side of the car, he went, don't worry about it. But yeah, I picked him up and it was just horrendous, horrendous, awful. We drove back from Norfolk. My mum was with me and obviously we had Aurelia in the back of the car and we just you just didn't know what to say, what to do, because you don't really know what it is. You know, when traumatic news happens to one person, clearly this is impacting the entire family, but it's happened in particular to Tom, right? Do you then think I need to be here to console him or I need what is your thought with regard to supporting him?

46:00well with me and Tom he's always actually needed my support but I thought I can't go the way where he's gone I've got to flip the other way so Tom is he's gonna die I'm gonna die that's it I'm gonna die cows how long have I got what do you reckon I've got you're gonna be fine Tom this is gonna be fine we're gonna sort it out and you are gonna be okay I said we can't even go to that place let's see what it is and then we'll know what we're dealing with okay so he's already thinking oh yeah tom was but that but what's weird with tom is he's always been obsessed with cancer and i don't know if this has had anything to do with it it's if people believe in this he's always going to me uh well obviously before when it was one in five it's one in three there's it's one in two kiel so i'm like you'll be fine don't worry about it he was concerned about cancer before his diagnosis did was there someone in his family friends was there any moment his nan did have cancer but not we hadn't lost loads of people to cancer i'd no i i'd no i don't know he just that was tom he's always a bit worried about health that's what i'm saying straight away can i have kids i better can't get checked right like that was tom that's true he changed his diet you said you know so he's found out that day he was fixated on stuff he changed his diet because he started looking at animals online.

47:24And the classic Tom line was, once you see it, you can't unsee it. So he was like, I can't eat meat anymore. But he didn't just do it himself. He then has to put that on everyone else. Okay, this is fair. This is fair. He's that person. This is fair. Yeah. But then he went back to eating meat again. Okay, okay. So he thinks his time in this world is not coming to an end. and you flip to no it's not we're going to fight yeah and i'm 35 weeks pregnant and that and a 15 month old baby and that just a little bit of added sprinkles on top of the cake just a little bit so what do you then how do you then begin to to manage life so then from there tom actually went in for a biopsy because we needed to know what it was so he went in for the biopsy on the Friday, came home and then they called us straight up on the Monday.

48:24And I was like, you know then don't you? They're getting us in that quick COVID time that we've had to go through like the back door into a room that no one even knows about because I'm heavily pregnant. And then he gets diagnosed and honestly, so we took Kelsey, my best friend with us. that has got to be the worst day of my whole entire life oh god it's just so sad

48:54we just sat in the room and you could just see trying to hold it together, I could hold it together for Tom, I'm not going to cry Kelsey said she looked at me and all you could see these beads of sweat just coming out of my face my whole body and it was summer, it was quite sweaty and they just turned around And they was like, he's got stage four cancer. It's a glioblastoma, glioblastoma, however you want to say it. And he's going to start treatment straight away. The treatment is chemo and radio. If that works, if we'll give him a bit more chemo. And we were so shocked because Tom loved science.

49:35He's like, what else are you going to give me? And they were like, that's it. That is all the treatment we can offer you. There was no magic wand. It was stage four. And he'd been researching as well. So when we left the hospital, we were told a different tumor in Norfolk. Okay. And all Tom was obsessed about was this glioblastoma. It can't be a glioblastoma because it can't be. It can't be. And as soon as them words came out, obviously I hadn't researched anything. I just knew from him. Right. You don't want to hear them words. Right. and it's basically the terminator of all cancers really because it's so hard for them to treat and Tom, you could see Tom this was a really weird moment as well because we hadn't discussed anything I didn't really talk to Tom about okay when we go into the room what questions are we going to ask Tom?

50:27Kelsey was there with a pen and paper she was going to take notes but we didn't ask are we going to ask how long you've got left? However, Tom Parker, being Tom Parker, was pushing to try and get a time frame from them of how long they thought he had left to live. But I said, whatever you do, do not give him a prognosis because he will be sat there ticking it off on a calendar. Yes. And I can't, we can't do that. We're not doing that. Yes. um and then obviously we asked about the children and they said just go home and spend the time of your family now and hug your children and be there and because obviously you're thinking if someone's having chemo what are the do's and don'ts right i cannot you know imagine hearing that um being pregnant yeah um so that's you hearing that that's him hearing that but when you hear it though i'm curious do you think okay this is just one opinion you're still in fight mode are you still in fight mode yes that's me do you think tom has given up hope hearing this or you think he's in tom literally lost the ability to walk so we came out and me and him went to the toilet together and i went please pull yourself together we can't do this we can't lose it if we're going to get through this we have got to get through it we can't crumble now we've only just been diagnosed um and we came out and uh he couldn't he couldn't even walk down the stairs he was like literally so like jittery and um kelsey and him embraced and hugged and had that moment because i thought i will if i don't hold it together then he's not going to have the hope from me i need to give him the hope okay but he did want to cuddle so i'm like just cuddle kelsey right now because I just feel like I'm losing everything and I'm not in control right now so I need to be in control and then we went home and obviously we just had the phone calls to people on the way home it was the worst drive of my life of ringing his mum to say to his mum it's the worst case we could be the worst the worst outcome okay okay how do you manage life in this because it's this enormous stress that is just it's not even hovering it's in you yeah so so how do you even just wake up like how do you find joy like how do you live you don't and it's this i didn't sleep i wasn't eating obviously i was pregnant at the time bodhi came two weeks earlier like two weeks after that he was like get me out of here because i don't want to be in her body anymore because she's so stressed so he came but even that you know I gave birth in Covid time so people that were even having babies in Covid was was cruel enough but to go in with Tom knowing that we're having this baby but he doesn't actually know how long he's got with this child I literally pushed him out and Tom just burst into tears and was absolutely beside himself because he's probably looking at Bodie thinking I don't know how long I've got with my son and then he had to go to treatment so it was like you can't even stay with me in hospital babe because you're on a you're on a uh on a treatment plan so he had radiotherapy he got the one day off to have Bodie and that was it he went back to radio the next day okay how how was he was he building any type of hope through treatment something did switch in Tom and I don't know like obviously when you're in it you don't know when that when it came but after his first lot of treatment he actually got a significant reduction okay and i don't think they'd seen that before i think a lot of people were very very shocked okay so reduction in the size of the tumor yeah it went back and it was like you've done that tom but tom had settled was it the power of his mind that he'd calmed the tumor had calmed right obviously treatment but him he was he was a powerful force okay okay so so at this point with the tumor reduced that was all he wanted to hear didn't he significant reduction and they said we never say significant reductions people okay is and and then there's there's joy in that moment it.

55:09So then we had a like from then that was the January so he'd done yeah he'd done the three months so then that year we was just fighting like every day I was looking at new therapies he could have alternative therapies I have become I feel like a doctor yes I think his actual doctors probably wanted to just be like can you go away I was just on them but it changed my whole way I was tom did everything for me as in like when we were buying house he'd sort he'd sort everything out money this like tom was very he'd do all the research into anything we were doing where we were going like he was so good to me and it was almost like he stopped and he was like there you go kelsey this is your time and i just ran with it and came to my own and researched everything we rang everywhere we'd me and kelsey would make a joke and be like what doctor where are we ringing tonight tom what country are we ringing because we spoke to every doctor who dealt with brain tumors across the world i reckon okay okay and then i would imagine you had support from friends oh yeah yeah tom must have had support from friends especially within the industry people reaching out to support okay yeah okay and we and a really tough decision that we made was to go public.

56:41So why did you choose to go public? Because Tom loved his fans. He needed the support and he couldn't live. Me and Tom were very honest people. It's like, we couldn't have lived that lie, me and him. Not lived a lie, but you know, what if he went up to treatment and someone saw him? It was the best thing we ever did by going public because your outreach, our outreach was massive. Okay. So the people that were then coming to us and giving us knowledge, it was the best thing we could have ever done. And also for him, so for me, it's probably more what was coming in. But for him, it was the love.

57:21I see. The love everyone gave him. And he had people to fight for. So not only did he have his family and his kids, he had all these other people to fight for now. I see it. I see it. So he was fighting. and this is interesting because he had moved from a place of when he heard about the tumor no hope to now the tumor's reduced in size he goes public he's fighting for more than just him he's fighting for the public he's fighting for his family right he's fighting for his partner right so he continues to make this fight i'm curious there must be moments where you think why me why Tom yeah and Paul was just sitting like this is really shit this is awful I wouldn't wish this upon anyone and it was stages when Tom was in chemo and his chemo was at home and it was a tablet form so I'd administer it and be like you've got to take your chemo now and it was just how ill someone could be and just having that having a child that I was breastfeeding right having another one that touched everything and was into everything and she didn't know did she yes so I just have to put her in a travel cot have one in the boob run up and down the stairs to Tom to get him what he needed I don't know how I did it you know this is my ignorance but you were talking about his chemo what chemotherapy what what is it exactly i've never yeah i've never known so he he had using a tablet so he would just take a chemotherapy tablet whereas like people with breast cancer obviously go and get it through iv yes so for us do you know what a positive we did it all at home because he the only time he really had to go into hospital then And after we'd done the radiotherapy, after that, he was with me at home.

59:18And we'd only go in for like checkups or MRIs. So for us, it worked out to keep us all together. Because what would we have done if he had to go and do months and weeks? Right, right, right. And he had time to spend his family and his children. But obviously, we really had to dig down the private route as well. And he was getting something called a vaseline. So I took him off steroids and put him on something called Avastin. And he was getting that every two weeks. So he'd have to go to guys in London every two weeks to get his Avastin. Okay. And then we worked out that you should get that at home.

59:58So you have to work it all out. You're like in a world that you never think you're going to be in. And you find out you have to learn along the way, don't you? Right. You do. And it's so, this is why having family and friends, but a close circle that you can rely on for support is so critical. Because it sounds like you went into this zone of, you became almost a pseudo doctor. Yep. You know, because you're researching all of this. So then my auntie and my mom were holding the fork down for me. They were helping with the kids. They were coming in. And Tom had a massive soft spot for my auntie because she's like the quiet, loving one.

1:00:33Whereas obviously my mom's like, Tom, you do this. was if we wanted him to eat, we'd send Julie in. If we wanted him to do anything, we'd send Julie out there because he couldn't say no to Joe. Okay. So he'll be like, okay, I'll try. I'll try because anyone else would go, oh, fuck off. But with her, he'll go, yeah, we're all right. I'll try. Right, right. So you had the system. Yeah, we had the system. The Tom system. The Tom system, all right. And it sounds like the Tom system was working. Every episode of this podcast comes to life with the help of Adobe Express, the quick and easy create anything app from Adobe, even if you don't have any design experience.

1:01:10I couldn't be more grateful for how much making this podcast lights me up. Getting to have these conversations, sharing stories and connecting with you all, it's the work that makes me feel truly alive. But finding that kind of work doesn't happen overnight. I've taken risks, switched lanes and followed paths that have felt uncertain, all in the hope of doing something meaningful. Whether you're launching a new business, starting a side hustle, or simply putting your ideas out into the world, you've got to be willing to take that first step. And Adobe Express is the tool that helps make those steps easier.

1:01:43It's got ready-to-go templates and AI-powered features to create professional designs, social media posts, and logos in minutes, whether you're an amateur or a seasoned designer. It's free to try. Just search Adobe Express and see where it takes you. What if going on a date wasn't just about finding the one, but instead about discovering something unexpected. After all, a great date could lead you to finding the best pizza in town or sharing a laugh over a new activity. You might even meet someone who shifts your perspective in a surprising way. Tinder, who sponsors this podcast, wants to bring the joy back to dating so that it doesn't feel like another task to complete because that pressure to get it right can really take the fun away.

1:02:30Let it go and see where your next date takes you. Whether it leads to a new friend, an entertaining story to add to the plot, or the start of something special, Tinder is designed for every type of connection. Wherever it takes you, it starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today and see where your next date might lead. When do you reach the point where you realize it's not going to work the way that you would like it to work? he did he did so well so for me it you know even we'd go to all these appointments it was we really had a routine and we we had a mission and the mission was tom was going to survive this and that was that and there was no one talking to me about anything else because tom was gonna be okay so don't talk to me about anything else because i'm going to save tom and tom knows that I'm going to save him.

1:03:27So he's put all his trust into me, which I can't believe he actually did that, but he did. But do you know what? We had Christmas, whatever, what was that name? Christmas, what, 2020? 21 or 20. 20. Okay. And after Christmas, I could see something in his eye and his eye started to shut and I really thought, obviously we had the tour booked in for March. Okay, a tour. He's the one at a tour. Oh, wow. That he was going to go. I mean, Paul, we're missing out that he'd done this whole stand-up for cancer gig that we raised a ridiculous amount of money for. We was filming a documentary at the time. I had so much going on that I actually don't know how I survived it, but I did.

1:04:13He did a whole with Liam. Okay. With Liam Payne. Stand-up, the concert. It was Stand Up to Cancer and The Wanted headlined it and we was trying to raise as much money as we could for brain treatment charities. That's incredible. So Tom and Liam were friends? Yeah. And Liam was like, One Direction and Wanted had a little bit of a… Competitive thing going on? Okay. All right. Fair enough. But I think when Tom got diagnosed, it really affected Liam. And he was like, whatever you need me to do, I'm there. I'm going to do it. Wow. So Liam came and performed at the show as well. But even everything for me, it was to get Tom to do what Tom wanted to do.

1:04:57So Tom wants to do the stand-up to cancer gig. Let's do everything we can to get him on that stage. Tom wants to do his tour. I'm going to do everything to get Tom on that tour. Tom wants to make Christmas. That's what we're going to do. So I started to close in the December, and I knew the concert was around the corner. and we made the decision. We went to Spain for three weeks. So we went there for three weeks and I didn't come home and I got them three weeks with Tom and I don't ever regret not coming home. My kids were well looked after with my mum. We came back and we went on tour straight away.

1:05:41Okay. But, I mean, the clinic in Spain, when we first left, he was in a wheelchair and he came back and he was walking within three weeks look at that so so the hope it's interesting it's like hope hope is taken away more hope hope is taken away it's just up and down yeah so he went on the tour and he loved every second of the tour and the fans got to see him and he came home he was meant to fly back out to spain okay because things things just happened to me as well like i just put it out to the universe and it would just find me what i wanted i had a call with a doctor when we was in spain and they wanted 50 grand for this treatment and i and i was like we've not got well one i didn't like how they spoke to me on the phone i had 15 minutes with them and they wanted 50 grand for my money um so i spoke to the clinic in spain and i managed to find someone to do it but i mean i got my maths is shit but a small a small percentage yeah and um so we was meant to go back out to spain but i couldn't obviously take him i'd just been away from three weeks and someone else was gonna gonna go with him but i made the decision i was like he's not well enough to go to spain but he wanted these dendritic cells that he was getting dendritic cell therapy so his cells have been made up and basically you're immune system goes back in and targets the t-cells okay so he needed that but at this point he was bedbound at home and um so what else would i do i flew the doctor over i flew from spain from spain she didn't speak a word of english so i went up to where i hold the classes at k2k in westcom and they have a crossfit there okay so i went into crossfit and i was like can anyone speak spanish and this lady grace said i'd never met her in my life she went i can speak spanish i said will you come to me to gatwick so i've got to pick a doctor up and then i need to get back to my house because my husband needs this medication will you spend the day with me and her name was grace amazing grace grace came with me and we got this doctor back and he was really poorly at this time and she just sort of looked to him but didn't say to me like he's dying he's this she just she didn't really know what to say that night I called the paramedics out again took his temperature everything was fine they didn't really say anything and then I thought I know what he needs fluids so then I arranged to get someone to come and administer him fluids IV but um by that time the hospice came.

1:08:37I'd run the hospice at that point because I needed help. Okay. Because what point I'd got to was I physically couldn't lift him anymore. I'd been walking him to the toilet. I'd been, I got commodes lived at home. I was, I just cared for him and I didn't get anyone else involved. Okay. Apart from my best friend Dean, I was like, can you come and help me a little bit? But I took that responsibility on for him because he's my husband. Yes. that's what you do don't you for the one you love yes he better have done it for me yes he would have done it for me so the hospice came in and they said to tom oh i actually remember it was so sad paul because i knew i was losing control and it was so hard for me to give the power to other people because i've been in i've been in charge i was driving the ship and i was having to gonna have to put someone else in in charge and i went to my mum's house um my brother maxwell was there and my mum was cutting hair she's a headdresser and I just sat and Max came and went all right Kelsey and I was just crying I couldn't stop crying and Max sat there with me but I didn't talk to me and we just I just sat and cried and he was like but he didn't leave obviously he was only how old did he have been 15 16 at the time he just sat with me and then the hospice came and Tom decided, I said, it's all up to you.

1:10:06You do what you want to do. He said, can I go to the hospice? I said, absolutely. And part of me thinks that he went to that hospice because he still wanted medication. And he thought, there's hope there. But also part of me thinks he didn't want to die at home in the house because we'd only actually, we'd bought a house in all of this. It's so tough. It's like, let's buy a house. It's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah, so he bought a house when he was sick. And it's like he gave me a new home because we'd done everything in our old house. We'd got engaged. We'd got married. We brought the kids back.

1:10:46Right. He'd got sick at the old house. Right. So many memories in the house. And it was like he gave me a fresh start. And it was like, let's buy a new house, girls. So we did. We literally moved one road away. It's incredible. when he left uh that evening when he left for the hospice yeah did you believe he was coming back i didn't i i couldn't actually go up to the hospice that night i couldn't go and see him and my friends went up there kelsey went up there rosie went up there and my friend evie who's a witch we've not even touched on her yet and they went up with him and i think he was like where's else but i needed that night to get my head into a space where only that he wasn't coming back yeah

1:11:35you know what's so i mean i've chills uh just talking about this because as you said you had been in charge the whole time you had been in charge and now not only is your husband leaving but you're no longer in charge yeah you've you all you've also given up all the yeah all the control so what do you what do you now do that you've given up this this control it's really hard for me it was like i'd been hit a ton of bricks and i remember kelsey we actually spoke about it there was like kelsey turned up and said will you just eat something for me will you just eat like two grapes girls I'll be happy if you eat two grapes but I felt like the world had just fallen on me and I wasn't in control and then I pulled myself together and I got out of bed and I went up to the hospice and then I was there with him and he was so happy to see me yes I'm sure he was he's like here she is she's gonna do something there'll be a miracle she's gonna make a miracle happen yes so so he saw you and he had hope again yeah because again i came then with someone okay okay and even when he was in there i had every everyone who had worked with us our team still giving him the hope yes because that's all you want don't you that is it and i and i love also how you were focused on one event at a time yeah You know, we're going to get him to, you know, to tour.

1:13:13We're going to get him to Christmas. So in the hospice, was there an event that you were trying to push him to? Was there anything, any goal at that point? Well, also, he was just going against what anyone was saying because they were like, oh, his swallow's gone. Then they did a swallow test and I was like, oh, no, his swallow's intact. I'm like, can you just stop playing games? Yeah. But also, for me, his mum and his dad went then and they stayed with him. So they got that time with him too. okay and then the boys came from the band okay um our best friends were there it what was difficult to say like like johnny johnny dropped him johnny came and picked him up and i said he wants to go to the hospice will you take him on that friday night johnny dropped him off and johnny never saw him again and johnny knew he was like i'm not gonna see him again he knew it yeah you know he do it how long after tom entered the hospice did he pass away uh he went the friday he died on the wednesday but my friend evie who i said we've not even touched on evie yet evie told me so she she spoke to me on sunday and she said um he's gonna pass away on on tuesday or wednesday kales so just be prepared and then i wasn't actually on that sunday when she told me that so i spoke to her in the morning and then that night I had the evening with Tom and we spoke a lot well at that point he'd sort of lost his voice okay but it came back for that it was just he was just like a little just used to give me what I needed right right um and we spoke about the kids and I just said to him as well at that point like you can go I know you're holding on for me but you can go I know you've had enough and he had had enough he'd fought so hard and I knew at that point he's like I've had enough girls I'm knackered just been on tour and I think with Tom he loved that he was the pop star and that about him and I feel feel like he'd lost himself with it all as well which was so sad and I don't think he could live in this lifetime with what he'd become interesting that's interesting so that conversation you sounds like you felt and even from what your friend told you you felt this was the last conversation you were going to have with your husband that as in on that level of that deepness and raw and we had our son to him and it was really it was romantic and lovely but also just horrendous because i'm gonna lose the love of my life right and i would imagine you then don't want to leave that that evening no and my friends sat outside the door so no one would come in because they were like this is your time everyone's had him you you've shared him so you need your time with him and even his mum was probably waiting to go And she's thinking, what's going on in there?

1:16:29Right, right. But you leave. Yeah. Because you have to. Yeah, because also I still had the kids at home. Yes, yes. So I wanted normality for the kids. So I was still there. Okay, okay. So the following day, Tom passes away. No, so we had the Sunday. Oh, okay. So your friend wasn't correct then. On the Sunday, she said he will pass on Tuesday or Wednesday. Okay. Okay, it was. so then we still had a few more days and i think he did give everyone i think he gave everyone a bit too much hope of that he had longer left but i did know okay by then i think other people just you want you want them to live you want people to live forever don't you if in this world you don't want anyone to die right you you don't you you know um i have a friend um going through a a similar situation and what he was saying is so it's his it's a it's a parent who's saying that the blessing is that the parent was able to see all of all of his loved ones have conversations with all of his loved ones yeah and almost go on his terms yeah and that was his luck with tom yeah he'd seen everyone and then even the way he died was just magical if there's a death and i I always talk about it.

1:17:47I think people must just think, what's she talking about? But if I could die like him, I would be so happy. Because he was able to see everyone. Yeah, and we had this moment with Crystal. He just made everything so magical for me. But I think that was Tom. That's what he liked to do for me, to give me the memory and the story, to go, well, this is what he did. There was always a story with me and Tom, and it was till the day he died, there was still a story there. There was still a story. Yeah. Amazing. It's like an amazing, you know, human being, creative, brilliant, funny. But most importantly, great dad.

1:18:30Yeah. Great husband, great son, you know. So Tom passes. I would imagine at this point, because you had said already this was, it was a dream life. It was a dream relationship. And now it's like the dream is shattered. I'm guessing, but you tell me if I'm wrong here, is that your focus then becomes the children. It becomes how am I going to put my energy into them? And I see this often with widows in particular, not widowers, but widows. And I shouldn't say not widowers because this happens with widowers, but I think to a greater degree with widows where the focus becomes, all right, I'm now going to take care of this gift that I did share with my spouse, which are the children.

1:19:21So does that become the focus for you? They become the focus. well I think they were our focus anyway but it was the you know where me and Tom had been together so long and we may not have had the children for a long time together I knew what he wanted for our children and what life he wanted them to have so now for me I'm trying to fulfill the life that Tom wanted our children to have. But, you know, financially, I was left with nothing at that point. Literally, his treatment costs a lot, a lot of money. Yes. And I would spend that money all over again and be at the point where I was. But that's why I had to go back to work.

1:20:13And I am a workaholic, but I think for me, when Tom was sick, like I could have literally, like someone was like, you are literally owning a company and you are the CEO of that company and you are running everything, Kelsey. You could do this. I think because I'd had that, I want that somewhere else. Where can I find that again? Okay. So I guess it's for my own career and bringing money in for the kids. Okay, fair, fair. So you're thinking, okay, I have to provide for these children, right? And the house, because we did buy the house and there's a mortgage on the house. Yes. Yes. All right. Because Tom, obviously, up until that point he went to the hospice, Tom would not have bought a house and left me with what he left me with if he didn't think he was going to survive.

1:21:09It was always he was going to be okay. Okay. All right. I see it. I see it. So you have to work, right? You're thinking about career. You're thinking about these children. Yep. And then clearly you're self. Or are you not thinking about self? Because when I say self, are you thinking about self-care? Are you thinking about... What even is that? Yeah. But really, are you... Because you've just gone through an incredibly traumatic experience that many people would have therapy, counseling, right? I'm assuming you did none of those things because you have to focus on work. Yeah. And it was, what can I do?

1:21:51I'll share it with everyone. I'm doing a lived experience. I've shared so much. Let's do a TV show. Okay. So I started filming a six-part TV show for ITVB, Life After Time. But it was my journey of how I'm coping with grief. Fair. That's fair. and in that you're able to share right with everyone yeah you're able to um i i would assume that's therapy in itself because you're able to share and then also let's keep it 100 it's all also some income as well to keep keep the lights on in the house uh and it's also a way to keep tom's i think name and his spirit alive right so you you so you film the series at what point But do you ever consider the idea of I'm going to be in a relationship with someone else?

1:22:51I didn't. But I am a people person. Even me and Tom being together for 13 years. Tom was quite happy in Tom's own space, own skin. me i love people i love being around people um i'd go off and tom would be like tom had a tracker on me he'd find me where wherever i was so if it was out for lunch with my family doing something i'm always doing something i'm always with people so i really struggled not having my best friend there yeah it was it was awful and also the kids are babies they go to bed at like six o 'clock Yes. And OK, this is fair. And the reason why I'm even drilling at this is because, you know, in a second, I want to get to social media criticism of you, because what I find interesting is that you've gone through this terrible experience and the public is on your side, is on Tom's side.

1:23:56Right. And Tom passes away, and I would imagine that the public is still on your side. They're rooting for you. They're rooting for your motherhood. They're rooting for the raising of your children. But it feels like the moment that there's the possibility that you are now going to entertain a relationship with anyone else, there's a change in public perception. Correct? Yep. Okay. now before we even get to that let's spend a second on what it's like being a widow because i've heard you talk about this i've seen you write about this and from your perspective most of the world has no idea of what it's like to be a widow especially a young widow because you're only 32 at this time yeah it's just awful losing the love of your life like tom was the love of my life the father of my children to be on my own was horrendous you wouldn't wish it upon anyone the lived experience i've had is just off the scale i think at the age of 32 to go you've been through all that yeah it was just it was crazy do you feel as if widows are viewed differently than a widower okay how so oh i just think for women you've got to be on your own that's it your husband's died and that's it you've it's the vows we've spoken about this before the vows you take but for a man it's like but he needed someone the kids need to be taken to school he's got to go to work the he needed dinner he might have needed some companionship but for women it's like get that black veil on don't even move out that house so the thought is is you shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone else no all right because i've taken them vows okay okay but when we talk about the vows in sickness and in health i went to the ends of the earth 20 times back it felt for tom i did everything and anything for him the conversations i had how much i believed that he was going to be okay yes yes how do single men do you think react to a widow so when you were out with your friends and not saying that you were out looking for a companionship you're just out with your friends yeah but i'm sure a single man would come up what's the reaction to a widow versus maybe a friend that's single and not a widow i speak about this it's so hard when you rely on the village then to say okay i'm working can you look after the kids oh i want a night out can you look after the kids i don't want to take the piss basically out of my mum and my auntie and whoever else is going to have the kids so i never usually i never normally go out but i went out on this night and i actually i remember the date december 16th i went on this night out with my two friends And we just went to a local bar.

1:27:21And because the girl's like, come on, Kels, come on. And anyway, we get talking to this group of guys. They're footballers. I'm speaking to this one guy. He's really, really nice. Anyway, it's come up in conversation. One of the girls, she said, oh, I'm married. I'm married. And oh, no, she was going to be married. I'm going to be married. She's married. And she's a widow. The guy turned his back on me. He literally went like that. Wow. And I went, don't worry, I didn't kill him. Because I was like, what do you want from me? Right. Why do you think he gave you that reaction? It's weird, isn't it?

1:28:01It's not the norm. What young girl goes out and goes, oh, yeah, I'm a widow. My husband's dead. It's just not that normal conversation. But it's like, oh, no, we got divorced because we actually didn't get along anymore. And I'm actually really horrible. And that's why we're not together. do you know what i mean it's like i can't actually control what's happened if i could control what happened tom would be here and we would be living the rest of our lives together with our children yeah yeah this the stigma in society is so interesting you know in the research for you coming in here i started looking at the percentage of men versus women yeah who have been uh who their spouse has passed who are in a relationship two years later.

1:28:47For men, it's over 50%. So it's between 50 % and 65 % of men whose spouse has passed within two years, they're in a committed relationship or remarried. For women, it's only 19%. And I think part of that is because - Hello, I was in the 19th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a high performer. You're a high performer. But part of that is because of what you're saying is that society shuns you. But then also I think there must be a script in your mind to think, well, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I shouldn't enter a relationship with someone. I mean, were you thinking this? Also, I could maybe speak on behalf of some of the 19%.

1:29:29Okay. Is you are very vulnerable. I was at my most vulnerable then. Okay. Okay. And I made some decisions that maybe weren't my best, life decisions but i was lonely i was vulnerable and i'm probably just a bit like oh yeah i'm gonna do it right right now part let's talk about the decision process a little bit because we met i think about eight months it was when you were debating to take the rings take the ring off right so at that point that was how long since time had passed no that was even longer that was uh to coming on two years that was coming on two years in that time had you had a relationship in that time okay so that relationship that you had you think that wasn't a good decision or do you think that was was it you were just in a vulnerable It's what I needed at that time.

1:30:34Okay. Okay. It's what I needed at that time or what I thought I needed at that time. All right. But now, so here's where the debate starts. Yeah. So when we met each other, you were debating on taking off your ring. All right. Which was what? Two years after Tom's passing. Now, I distinctly remember that moment because I have never seen, I've never, I mean, I'm a part of shows that are considered to be controversial like married at first sight and people all the time come at me on married at first sight but i've never had so many hate hatred filled comments than when i was on lorraine with you yeah and the reason why you know why i was getting it why i was getting it because i said if she wants to take her ring off take her ring off it's like she said she's ready and i'm telling you kelsey it was so if that's what i got i can't imagine what you receive what are some of the comments that you get the comments are literally horrendous horrendous you know can can i read a few yeah okay all right i think what's what'll be interesting is so i've seen that the comments are typically in one of three categories.

1:31:57And I think this is a great opportunity for you to address this head on. All right. You tell them. You tell them. Let's see what you're going to say, Kelsey, on this. All right. Now, these are crude, but I'm sure you've seen. Yeah, I've probably seen them. Okay. So here's one. This woman, she can't be alone. I think she's one of those people who just can't be by themselves. But is that not allowed? Are you not allowed to not be on your own? I just don't understand. And do you know what? With the person that I met previous, he actually brought so much happiness and laughter into my house, which was not there.

1:32:42Because I actually wasn't laughing and I wasn't happy. So then me being like that, should my kids have a life like that? They've not picked this life, have they?

1:32:57You know, I wish we could ask this person, you know, she is the kind of woman who can't be alone. You know, my gut reaction is that human beings were not meant to do life alone. No. You know, marriage is not for all of us, but not one of us should be alone. So, right, she's not the kind of woman who could be alone. There's no woman or a man who should be alone. You know? All right. How about this one? Here we go. All right. This is, it gets deeper. Oh, it gets deeper. Okay. This one says, everyone deserves happiness, but Kelsey's moved on at lightning speed. This is her second relationship. So they're talking about the new relationship.

1:33:41This is her second relationship since her husband died that I know of. She hasn't been with him long enough to have a baby. I bet Tom's parents are gutted. it's just awful isn't it that is just awful and and who puts time on anything you're talking about yeah oh in terms of you haven't been with someone long enough etc there's time there's people that come into your lives look when i met first met tom i'd broken up with someone three months before that and also i am love i am love i i don't know what evie says it about me she's like you are love you attract it you are light you bring light into people right right that's why i run a performing arts school that's why i am the way i am that's why i entertain do you know what i mean i am i'm a lover yeah but one other question one other question this is from social but i feel like you've already started to answer this is naming the baby Parker.

1:34:50So this is naming your new baby Parker will give her more material to milk Tom further for money. She moved on from Tom as soon as she got with that other bloke, just a couple of months after his funeral. It won't be for any sentimental reasons as this woman is driven by attention and money. What do you say about that? You are sick. You, I don't know. Where do you live? Like, I have two children that are Tom's. Do you want me to segregate them from my life? And also, that comment that they're talking about. We were asked on the OK shoot. Aurelia was asked what she would like her little baby brother and sister to be called for a girl she likes violet from the incredibles for a boy she likes parker i don't know she's five years old she believes that unicorns are real do you know what i mean yes yes she's five years old and she probably deep down maybe she's been here before maybe she feels like she wants us all to have the same last name because you know what that hurt me growing up that all all of us kids we had three different surnames between us yeah maybe she doesn't intuitively feel that i want the baby to be called parker somewhere because i don't want my mum now to to segregate us and it's the parkers and then the lindsays right do you know what i mean right well you know kelsey what why do you think so many people are invested in your story because i've they've been on the journey with me but maybe some people have just got on the train a little bit too late they were a couple of stops behind weren't they because those that have watched from when me and tom did our documentary for stand up to cancer and what i went through and what i did down to tying tom's shoelaces up for him and whatever else and like i'm saying i physically carried him to the toilet when he couldn't walk anymore.

1:36:54I did everything for Tom. Yes. If you've been on that journey with me, you would not begrudge me having a little bit of happiness because that's all I actually deserve. Happiness and joy. Yes. Yes. All right. Well, let's talk about the person who I believe has brought happiness and joy into your life so at what point do you meet will i i met will out and it's just again so weird that i met will we got talking and in will's head he doesn't he's he's so laid back will he's so chilled he's so laid back and he's not even he's just having a conversation okay but there it was just fireworks between us and did you you know you talked about being you know the stigma around being a widow uh did you feel like that was going to prevent you and will or you and anyone from having a relationship after the encounter with the guy yes i did i thought is how are people going to think this is weird because um obviously my previous relationship he actually knew everything i didn't have to explain anything to him he knew who tom was he knew the sitch whereas will he had no clue of any of it.

1:38:32Interesting. Okay. Will is a tree surgeon. Yes. What the hell is that? What is that? He's very outdoorsy. He cuts down trees and trims bushes. He'd be so offended. He'd be so offended, wouldn't he? Oh my God. It's actually the second most dangerous job to do. Is it really? Yeah. Is it? That's what he tells me. He's really dangerous. Is it? Obviously, you have to climb. You've got the chainsaws. Yeah, yeah. I mean, trimming bushes can be dangerous. Yeah. So, you know. Pox, don't make it rude now. I'm not making it rude. You told me he trims bushes. That's what you said he does. I'm just saying what you said.

1:39:21So, all right. So, but you know what's interesting? see now i've seen trees like i've seen them yeah i didn't realize that was their title tree surgeons okay it's a big job someone's got to do it yeah got yourself a surgeon all right so you're together right you're seeing each other is there a point where you're starting to think about because i recall what you said and you just talked about it with your daughter and you talked about it now or you talked about it earlier where you thought I don't want a blended family you know you said that when you especially when you got with Tom initially I don't want to have a blended family but as you become deeper intertwined with Will are you beginning to think oh my goodness I could potentially have a blended family here yeah without a doubt with Will I knew straight away you knew it yeah so it was another one where you knew he was the one yeah and what was it what was it about will just will i just say it's will's world will just lives in this lovely bubble that we'd all like to go to he doesn't look at any of that he doesn't see he doesn't have social media he doesn't fill himself with any of that you knew right away he was the right one for you at what point did you find out you were pregnant um well we fell pregnant quite quickly we've fallen pregnant quite quickly um which again within like friends and family a friend said to me um a male friend uh he's like my best friend's husband he is he worries about everything and i told him and he went but what if it doesn't work out?

1:41:10I said it's not worked out for me. My life hasn't worked out how I thought it was going to work out has it? From me and Tom at 19 to where I am now is not how I thought my life was going to be so let's not worry. Life can only be what it can be and I'm on a new journey now to have a child with Will. Yes. And have a blended family. Yes. yes we have to talk about this magazine spread yes because i mean this is a big way to announce this is bold also this is very bold and i'm sure you knew going into this announcement that there would be people who would have thoughts and these would be negative thoughts yeah so so what what what went into your consideration to do this announcement and what was Will thinking um for me I have done every part of my journey with okay so for me it was only natural that I I did this I celebrated me being pregnant with everyone and again financially right why am I not gonna do it can I just say thank thank you for being transparent on this because oftentimes I've heard the answer of well I just wanted to share the information but you forget the but I'm also getting paid yeah and who does not want to get paid and people judge you for that but it's like if I'm sure if someone asked you if you wanted to do a front cover of a magazine and get some money you would not no sorry it's not for me do you not do not picture me and do not pay me you're gonna say yes aren't you so so then it's the announcement you're sharing the journey you've had uh been partners with okay for many years i'm assuming right you're also being compensated but will though is not a public figure no so this was a big leap for him there was a lot of talk and discussion whether will wanted to do it or not i bet but i think will's love for me is he will support me um a lot of people are quoting that he's my cheerleader okay the cheerleader tree surgeon um but he loves the kids and it was a beautiful photo shoot and And do you know what?

1:43:54I think for him, once he actually done it, it's like pushing yourself out of a comfort zone, isn't it? He really pushed himself out of his comfort zone to do it. He did. He did. He doesn't even like taking pictures with me. Wow. We've just been to Dubai on holiday, and I went, do you actually want to take one picture with me on this holiday? He's like, oh, yeah. He's like, all right, I'll do it. I'll do it. So he has no regrets. No. Okay. But I would imagine he's getting the same or a level of trolling that you're getting. Will's not getting anything because Will lives in Will's world and he's not seeing any of it.

1:44:29Wow. He has blocked it all out. He didn't get the magazine. I came back with the mirror. I was like, we're in the mirror. He's like, yeah, I can't look at it. Oh, my gosh. But, you know, I have to say this, too, is I keep talking about, OK, he's getting this trolling, et cetera. Here are the negative comments. But it does feel like it's overwhelmingly positive. Yes. I mean, do you feel that way? Yes. I mean, you've got the negatives. You're going to have the negatives in anything, can't you? But overall, the amount of people that have said, congratulations, you deserve this. And I am probably a joyseek now.

1:45:08I'm trying to find the joys in life. And having another baby is going to bring us as a family joy. Yes. And happiness. The kids are so excited. I bet. I bet. I bet. And so the kids are excited. What about the family, right? Because I would imagine you have stayed in contact with Tom's family. That's your family. So what was their reaction? And are they excited? They're so excited. Noreen was so happy. But I get trolled for that. However, I chose to tell Noreen, Bearing in mind people are seeing like five minutes of, like two minutes of my life on Instagram. Okay. And Noreen is Tom's mum. Yeah, mum.

1:45:52Okay. It's really got nothing to do with anyone else, has it, really? But we are so close. We FaceTime and text all during the week. Without a doubt, we FaceTime every Sunday. And that's probably mainly for me and Noreen to have a catch-up because you try and get the kids in it. But again, they're young, aren't they? So me and Noreen have that time. We have that catch-up once a week. Okay. Really? Yeah. Once a week you do a catch. Wow. That's more than a lot of people are talking to their own moms. Yeah. You know what I mean? Wow. Okay. Okay. So for Will, your family, but also Tom's family, I understand there's a trip.

1:46:32Yep. Okay. Tell me about this trip. Because I think this trip should put to bed a lot of the negative comments that you're getting. Yeah. We're going camping. when the baby's here. Who is? My family, Tom's family. We're all going together. We went last year, but that's the thing. We do loads together. We just all went to Laplam, UK. Tom's family, my family. We're so close. We did a family meeting. It's not like Tom's dead. And I'm like, right, that's it. I've got a new partner now. Sorry, I can't talk to any of that family. Tom's aunties were in the comments like, I'm so happy for you. I mean, I was so lucky with Tom's family that I've got the most amazing in-laws.

1:47:21Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know what's so interesting to me is here was the family that initially you didn't want. You didn't want the blended family because of what? What was the reason when you were a little girl why you didn't want it? Is you felt like, what, you'd be treated differently. Yeah. But now here you have a blended family. The thing that you didn't want. But what you have corrected is that everyone is treated well. It's one family. It's not a fractioned family. And that's beautiful. And I think it will continue to be like that. Noreen and Nigel, Tom's dad, they are such a massive part of my kids' lives.

1:48:05That's their grandparents. Will loves them. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. One other area that I'd love to get into is spirituality. Because you've even said in this discussion that you said Tom was spiritual. You weren't so much. Where do you stand right now? Oh, I'm so like deeply spiritual. I get signs. Okay. And what does spirituality mean to you? I'm so happy that I found it. And Tom's mom's really spiritual too. So even with positive energy, it was Noreen that taught me it and the law of attraction. Okay. This is when I was a little girl. Obviously, 19-year-old me. But now the signs, obviously, when you see it, as Tom said, I quoted him, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

1:49:08and even now Will's coming to the equation and he's living in the house, he sees the signs. Okay. For example, what are the signs? Oh, we've had so many. So, and I think he's shown me, like last week, he did like three different signs because I want, I'd actually seen a psychic before the OK magazine came out. So I saw it on Friday and she said to me, he is worried with how this is going to be perceived. He's worried about you because he loves you and he doesn't like anyone being horrible about me. Tom would hate it. Tom was alive now when people were saying this stuff. He would have replied to every single comment and had an argument because he just would not have been able to cope with that.

1:49:53People being mean. He wouldn't care about himself but if you're horrible about me

1:50:00so last week I told the kids off for the tvs right so they think that they're like in charge of the tvs in the house okay so they they're only in what netflix is on that what netflix is on that room so i said i'm not having it we're not having the tvs and we're gonna watch the we're gonna eat dinner and we're gonna talk okay and then when we do decide to watch something me and will will be deciding what's going on the tv because you're five and four and you're not dictating to me right it but and tom would have been quite strict with them i sometimes have to think what would he have done in this situation so anyway we've all gone to bed at half three in the morning the tv comes on in the downstairs the lounge full blast and it's a game show at half three in the morning so we've woken up will's like one of the kids downstairs watching tv i'm like no it's tom but that I my brain automatically goes there how's the tv switching on at half three in the morning right so this is a topic that I'm completely utterly fascinated by because I was at a point in my life where I was like this is complete nonsense but I've graduated or should I say I've evolved to a place where I have many people in my life that I highly respect yeah who believe with all of their being that they that they're their various signs and when i begin to talk with them i realize that there's correlation between these signs there's correlation between what they're identifying what they're recognizing in these signs you know and i it's it's one of those where i i just want to learn more like i want I want to see this you know I want to see it and you have to ask for it how so you have to just actually ask whatever you want to be told or the sign you want ask for it but believe in it and it will come I asked Tom a question and I said if this answer is true do the car alarm car alarm was going off at like two o 'clock in the morning this is when I was like on my own no will no one and I asked him a question and that's also I just feel that he's with me all the time and I'm judged for that judged for that but I do I feel him I feel him with whatever I'm doing and I knew that I think I get a sense of how he's feeling about situations yes but you're judged because i would imagine because and i know i was at that point in the past where people just say oh she's she's she's on one yeah yeah but you in your heart you feel completely differently and and this is where to your to that place of you said you just have to ask for it is maybe that's what i need to you know that's what i need to do to get the sign yeah what you want yeah it's just ask for it so then will i'm curious will sees these signs as well so he must be spiritual yeah okay so will lost his dad will's dad died that's why will was probably so understanding he lost his dad at 21 and and his dad actually i don't know if to put this in a lot His dad actually saved his life.

1:53:45He could hear his dad and he came back from something he was doing. Maybe he wasn't a tree surge at this point. He was doing something and his dad shouted out his name and he wasn't electrocuted by his dad shouting his name. And this is when we first met. We was actually telling each other these stories. So obviously I'm like, okay, he's not going to think I'm mental with my stories. We're on the same page. I see it. so you've both gone through trauma do you feel like you have bonded through the trauma i feel like we haven't with me and will we it's like there's no conversation that goes on but we don't deeply talk about what we've been through if i feel like i'm in in in a talking mood will sits there and he listens to everything i've got to say if i want to talk about tom and you can just feel that he wants to learn more about Tom.

1:54:41Yeah which is a very mature perspective you know because I because you know the the one challenge that I think I have around how western society mostly deals with death is just don't talk about it. Box it up. Exactly so if this person has passed don't even bring up their name. People feel awkward well that's what when I when he first time people would cross the road not to talk to me and even now people go they don't know what to say and i can feel that they don't know what to say so then i feel really awkward because i'm like you're not going to make me awkward talking about tom right and so what would you like people to say i'm like let's just talk about tom whatever you want to talk about let's talk about because it really you'll never offend me yeah yeah i agree you you know it's one of those where I feel incredibly sad because, you know, like in Mexico, Day of the Dead, right?

1:55:42And it is this acknowledgement of those who have passed, right? So we're acknowledging them. Whereas in all of these other countries, the UK, the US is very similar. It's like, let's not even talk about it. and not even let's not talk about them but let's not talk about the grief around it around it and that's why i think so many people do look to me now i've sort of become the face of grief widows loss because i do openly talk about it and i will say to people i'm having a day but you know now that i've got good news and if i talk about a sad day if i come out and say do you know what I did Paul's podcast we spoke about Tom it was really hard what do you mean it was hard for you you're happy you've got a new life you've got it but nothing is boxed we would love to box it and put it away but I'm not gonna do that I'm gonna talk about Tom and you know someone said to me you learn to live around your grief it doesn't get any bigger it doesn't get any smaller time is not a healer you're just because people say that don't they they do they do it's interesting so you you learn to live around it live around your grief we're living around it small things i've got parents evening tomorrow i would love for tom to come to parents evening with me to know that I'm doing the right thing.

1:57:21Because I've made a massive decision. I've actually put the children into private school. I'm paying for their education because Tom wanted them to go to private school. So I feel like I'm fulfilling what he wanted with the children.

1:57:37And I've got to go to parents even on my own. right no so there's reminders yes i may be pregnant yes i may be in a new relationship i've still lost my children's father right right give you space but i think more importantly respect that seems to be the missing piece this idea that you can't determine for yourself if you're emotionally stable, if you are ready, you know, and these are things that you can determine, you know, for yourself. One last question is today with the children, how do you celebrate Tom's life with the kids? We talk about Tom every single day. every day i would say to you there's not a day that goes by that we don't talk about tom honestly and i know people probably think oh what an exaggeration we do

1:58:48without a doubt and even if they do something like oh my god you remind me of your dad so much oh your dad wouldn't be happy you're doing that i love that i love it because it's it's it's It's keeping his spirit alive. Well, what's quite sad, Paul, and obviously this is what breaks my heart, is you've got to remember, Bodhi was 18 months. His whole life was his dad being sick. He didn't get the good Tom. He got his dad with a brain tumour. What's he going to remember of his dad? So I am trying to keep his memory alive for Tom because how much he's going to miss out on for Bodhi. And then even when you think with Aurelia, she was 15 months.

1:59:37She still didn't get a long time with her dad, did she? Right, yeah. Which 15 months when he was obviously diagnosed. Yeah, but yeah, not enough time. Not enough time. Yeah, yeah. So now we're trying to build who their dad is. They've got so many videos. They've got so much of me and Tom together. We did YouTube together. They've got so much of their dad, which they're fortunate, aren't they? Yes, yes. And then also the relationship with the grandparents, you know, and the family because the aunties and going on the camping trips and going on the holidays. I think that is where Tom lives, you know, and where they'll always be reminded of their father.

2:00:27You know, that's beautiful. Tom will always be with us. It's making me really emotional again because he's not going anywhere. And I've found a partner that is willing to have Tom in our family and in our lives. And he doesn't want to shut Tom down. He wants him to be there. Just like we talk about his dad. The same way. The same way. I have to ask, what is next for you? Because you are a CEO. You're a business woman, you know. So what is next for you? What's on the horizon? Well, I have school fees to pay. So busy. All right, you want school fees to be paid? I hear that. what I found when Tom died people the question I got asked all the time was how did you tell the kids and I was very honest I told the kids your dad's dead he's not coming back there's not really a book out there to reflect that the books for children are very there's an invisible string and you've always tied to that person very elusive whereas i was very black and white and i feel like there needs to be that book to tell children about death and loss so children's book the grief children's book i would like to document this next journey if that's a tv show yes if that's a youtube channel to show people again how I'm going to do this journey.

2:02:13Because again, what you're saying of me being the CEO and whatever, I've learned a lot. And I'm hoping that this birth will be completely different to my last two with everything that I've learned. All right. So two more, two more, two more. Unless you have anything. Do you have anything? Are you good? You're good. Okay. Okay, so when Will heard you were pregnant, what was his reaction? And how is he feeling about the fact that he's going to be a dad? Will cried his eyes out and he was so happy. All he's actually wanted is a child. So he is just over the moon. And he's going to be such a good dad.

2:02:57He's so good with mine. But it's quite funny for him, isn't it? because he's coming and he skipped a few stages. So I keep going to him, oh, you wait. You wait. But then when we get to this stage, then he's going to be like, no, I'm doing. Right. I'm like. You wait till you can't go to sleep at night. Yes. Yes. But no, that's beautiful that he's so excited. And what I need to be careful about is not being like, I've done this before. We need to enjoy it together. this is our thing that we've created together and we need to enjoy it and bring the children on board i am however worried about a radio because she thinks she's going to be the mum oh yeah i mean but she has to be i mean she's she's gonna be big sis so so yeah she she has to run things yeah she runs the show as it is yeah yeah again that's another person that it's a really as well and we're just the extras in her show.

2:03:57Rightfully so. Rightfully so. Now, when you think back on this conversation that we've had, it has been expansive. What's one thing that you would like everyone to take from this?

2:04:15That life can be tough. Life can be really tough, really shit. But I'm still here. I've got through it. if I've got through something, you can get through it. Love it. Love it. All right. So the final question, everyone gets this. It is my favorite question. Why didn't they tell me about the final question? But see, you should just hear it and off the cuff, give us the answer. So you have had some amazing conversations throughout your life. I want you to think about the most memorable conversation that you had. who is it with what you talk about and what did you learn oh that is such a hard question it is incredibly hard okay so mine would be for this is pre any problems in my life okay with my mum and it's a bit of relationship advice and it would be that you have to learn to accept people for who they are because you're never going to change them so if you are with someone don't think that you're going to get into a relationship and that you are going to change that person because you can't and you won't so you just have to accept the person for who they are and I guess that is through life and any relationship you shouldn't want to change them that is what I've learned mom is profound at what age did she tell you that how old were you that has probably got to be a conversation when I've been with Tom being like oh she's like you're not going to ever change him I think it is an ongoing conversation really that one because I now have to remind her with Johnny, you're not going to change your mom.

2:06:16You have to have to accept. And it's a bit like the trend. We listen and we don't judge. Yes. You have to accept the person you are with. You're not going to change them. So if you love that person, you want to be with them. You have to accept who they are. Yes. And you, your acceptance is a demonstration of your love. There you go. All right. That is it. And I'm so sad. I absolutely loved this conversation with Kelsey. And like always, I have a few takeaways. So let me give you my top three. Number one, Kelsey was certain she didn't want a blended family and that belief shaped her values early on.

2:06:57But life doesn't always follow our plans. Now she finds herself navigating exactly what she never imagined. It's a powerful reminder that growth often happens in the spaces we least expect. The things we resist the most can end up being the things that change us the most. And number two, after Tom's passing, Kelsey felt alone. Loneliness is real, and no one should be penalized for seeking companionship. Now, she has admitted that it was initially too early and that she wasn't ready. We should allow people the space to figure things out without shame or judgment. And what I want you to do is take a look at our first community episode where I speak to Heather on the exact same topic.

2:07:44And number three, Kelsey's honesty about finances is so refreshing. She straight up said she did OK Magazine and the documentary because she needed the money. And here's what I respect about that. Most people in the public eye would never admit that. But Kelsey did. and that kind of transparency is rare and she should be celebrated for that. Overall, I'm so grateful to Kelsey for sharing her story with such honesty and I hope you enjoyed this conversation too. Thanks for being here and I'll see you next week. Can you believe that 80 % of relationships end in heartbreak or dissatisfaction? You wanna know why?

2:08:25Because of the myths we believe about love. So much of what we've been taught is wrong. Like, true love means never feeling attracted to someone else. Myth. You should never keep secrets from your partner. Myth. And the big one, never go to bed angry. Another myth. That's why I wrote Keep Love. To debunk 21 of the biggest myths and replace them with actionable truths that actually help. If you're ready to stop believing the myths and start building a love that lasts, Keep Love will show you how to get there. This is where it starts. Get your copy now from the link below.

2:09:23Experian is your big financial friend, helping you explore credit card offers with confidence. Some cards are labeled no ding decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. See Experian.com for details. Applying for cards labeled no ding decline won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved. In too many cities, dangerous illegals walk free as police are forced to stand down. Join ICE and help us catch the worst of the worst with bonuses up to$50 ,000 and generous benefits. Apply now. Join.ice.gov.