Kerry Katona: I Didn’t Know Brian Cheated Before Our Wedding! THIS Is The Truth About Heidi & Liz’s Atomic Kitten Fights

26:41That's all I can say. And he may well convince me to do open leg shots. But I've gone back to do not know what he finds. I've gone back to my bootstraight. It wasn't him. And that came back to harm me then. When I became famous, he sold all those pictures. And Brian paid a fortune to try getting removed. and then ended up going on doing OnlyFans anyway. Yeah. The irony. The irony. The irony. But at 16, though. Yeah. That was my get-out. So what happened was my mum wrote off to the... Bear in mind, pastry was huge then, Paul. Exactly. It was a different time. It was huge. It was a different time.

27:21You were allowed to be... Samantha Fox was 16. She was the biggest pastry model going. She had great natural boobs. So did I. How's his... And so when my mum sent my portfolio off to the sun, Normie don't hear often from weeks. He rang the very next day. Did they? Back in day, Paul, I was all right, you know. I was all right. I was easy on I back then. Don't say back then. And then see him. But also, so I understand too, and for anyone who doesn't know about page three, page three, was it the page three of the sun? Or the Daily Star. Or the Daily Star. Or whatever it was, yeah. Page three was always a woman modeling topless.

28:00It was a huge thing. It was a normal thing back then. And any age? Or what was the age? No, 16. 16. You're allowed to have sex and get married. 16 is a legal age. So I think my own fox was 16. Because I was so young and 16 was such, I'm ashamed to say it, I have a great set of tits on me. That was my get out. Okay. So when we took the portfolio off, they kind of stopped trying to keep me away from me at this point now. My mum's my best friend. This is when I started skipping school and wagging school. Right. When my mum was back up north, after Dave dies and all that. And then I'm still in foster home, and the son said, come down and we'll get Beverly Goodway to do a,

28:48what's a shot that you call it? Just a trial run. Okay. And so I said to my foster parents, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm not going to school tomorrow. I said, me and my mum are going to London. if you want to ring social services, you won't ring the social worker and tell them, you can tell them, but you're not stopping me because I'm going, it's a great opportunity for me. I'm going. And me and my mum got the train and we had a great life, Paul. Like, when I was with my mum, we used to have a great time. No, no drink or anything like that. Yes. Or drugs, like, we, sometimes, like, they're the best years of my life sometimes.

29:22Some of the things I've done with my mum, like, when the police came to get me off my mum because I went to the pub, we found it dead funny. We're sat and we're like, it's like, wait till you get on. You're going to be grounded. You're going to be in trouble. Yes. You know, she was my mate. Yeah. And we went to London. I did the photo shoot with the amazing Beverly Godway. I think he's passed away now. And Linda Lasadi's pitch up there. Joe Guess is up there. And Samantha Fox and Melinda Messenger. And they got the pitches. And the next day, yeah, we want you. And then when they looked into me, I had a court order on me.

29:58so then me there's a worm come out the woodworks here we can't put these pictures in the paper because you have a court order on your carer I was just desperate then to get my picture on page 3 so I had to go to court get the court order lifted but I wasn't allowed to stay in foster home I then got put into a semi-dependence home when I was 60 so I could pursue my glamour modelling career look at that you did that so you can land Yeah, so you can pursue glamour modelling. So then the photo comes out and pays through. It never does. I never end up doing it in the end. Oh, my goodness. I got put in some independence home because this court order took so long.

30:39I got put in some independence home when I was 16, and then I got my first council flat when I was 17. And that's when my life changed overnight, really, Paul. Okay, how so? I was in a nightclub underage and I met this guy called Davy T. And I was a good dancer, you know, dancing away. And he said, look, I'm in this band called The Palm Kings and we're looking for dancers and we think you'd be great. And I went back to my mum's lap. I mean, I've missed out so much. It's like drama and I think we've had so much I could tell you. I used to go on the Rob with my mum, Paul. So when I was in foster home, my mum would come up north or like, and I would go on rob together.

31:22You would rob? I'd shoplift, yeah. With your mother? Yeah. Or on me own. Was it? I don't do it now. Just to be clear, just check everywhere before I leave first of all. Yeah, yeah. But you would go rob stores? Yeah. Not like, not like. Like mug, but like shoplift. Yeah, like shoplift, yeah. I used to get a list of everyone from school. So that's when I used to get my beer money on the weekend. I used to get the first years to go give me a kiss on the cheek for 50p because they all fancied me. And then I used to go get like a bottle of White Lightning and go on part with me mate Lisa. Oh, my gosh.

32:01This is all, this is just. This is while I was in foster home. Okay. This is so. So you do it all. Yeah, this is actually a lot more than I thought. So at 17, though, what were you doing for income at this time? I was always working I've always worked I started a job at the at Fashion Connections at the market and I worked as a glass collector at night time so on a Saturday I'd go to that job and at night time I always remember when I worked at JD I worked in the chippy goodness I worked as a lap dancer that's when I started lap dancing when I was in my when I got my first council flat okay I was working as a BT sales advisor, but I was so dyslexic.

32:48I used to get really nervous. I'd go, hi, it's Caracol, I'm from BT. I just like to talk to, you know, those on sale people. And after the time I couldn't pronounce the surnames or read the words on the screen because I didn't, I was so dyslexic. I loved school. School for me was escapism. I loved it so much. I wish I was clever. I wish I could understand what the teacher meant. I used to go into my science lessons and start talking about God just so that we didn't have to do any work. Okay. To say, well, do you believe in God, though, sir? Because you're a scientist. I was dead cheeky. I see it.

33:17I was dead cheeky. I wasn't naughty, but I was cheeky. Yes, yes. I was a class clown. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was a proper tomboy, even though I was a pretty girl. All right. But girls didn't really like me, so I'd be a bit of a dick, so that they liked me. It'd be funny. Oh, my gosh. You know what it's like being a bit of a dick, don't you, Paul? Sometimes. Get off of me, get off of me. No, don't mean that, Paul. No, no. You don't mean that. You know what I love is that you give it, right? But you also take it. Absolutely. If you can't take it, don't give it. A lot of people can't, you know. A lot of people get all stuck up, right?

33:55I'm a knob. Yes, you are. I'm a lovable knob. You are. Sometimes. I'm lovable. No, I'm not. No, no, no. All the time. All the time. All the time. All the time. All the time. So now, though, 17, you're doing all of these. You have lots of different jobs. So that's what happened. So I was in my, I was, at this point I'm already on doing the Coke. So it's gone from doing whiz, speed, then doing cocaine. And it wasn't me when we gave me my first line of Coke. It was a boyfriend at the time. Okay. And that's when I got a taste of it. And then I realized me mum was doing it as well. And then we started doing it together.

34:34I see. I see. Yeah. You know, I'm sure it happens, but I've never spoken with anyone who did drugs with their parents consistently. Yeah, but I'm sure they're people. But just so I understand, though, because I get the dynamic between you and your mother. You were more so mom. But if you were more so mom, did you feel any level of responsibility to your mother of maybe we shouldn't be doing this? Or was it just so? Well, I have an addictive personality as well. So after you had that first line, you're chasing the buzz, Paul. And everyone was there happy. Yeah. Everyone was talking shit. I had loads of great times on drugs.

35:14I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. You know, it got to a point it nearly killed me. But it was, it got a lot. Okay. And you're chasing, that's what I hear. You're chasing the buzz. So do you feel like you never get the buzz as it was the first time? No, look, but I mean, I was never addicted to it. I just overdone it like once I started a cunt sort of binge a binger and then I won't touch it for ages months and months and months and months and then when she had that first one like I used to bribe not bribe me mum like when I was living in Ireland with Brian and she was down or depressed I'd go don't you fly over and get you the bag that was our relationship Paul that's not normal I see it I see it yeah I see it I mean, it's not normal, but it was your normal.

36:05It was my normal, yeah. You know that feeling when you've just committed to starting something big and then it hits you. How am I going to pull this off? When I started my matchmaking business, I remember sitting at the kitchen counter one night with my computer and 15 tabs open trying to figure out how I should market and sell our services. It was pretty overwhelming, and that continued for a lot of the first year. And I look back now and think if I'd only had our sponsor, Shopify, on board, I'd have had a much softer start to entrepreneurship. Shopify helps you sell your business, but also makes you look and feel like you've been doing it for years.

36:43It has hundreds of templates to pick from and AI tools that help you with writing product descriptions or enhancing photos. Sort of like having a full-time team before you've made your first hire. If you're starting something big, visit shopify.co.uk slash need to talk to sign up for your one pound per month trial. That's shopify.co.uk slash need to talk. Paul's about to show you a presentation he made in Adobe Express. So you better be nice. You might not know this, but I am the proud co-owner of the mighty Sutton United Football Club. And this year I had the honour of designing our away kit.

37:22First things first, Sutton Amber. Black, the crest, the fonts, locked in with our sponsor, Adobe Express's brand kit. I was presenting to the board, and the story I wanted to tell was that we're modern. We're sleek. Yes, we were founded in 1898, but we're still a club that belongs in 2025. I wanted everyone, from a 10-year-old to a 90-year-old, in the stands to say, I want that. All over Sutton United's script pattern. Mono crest, amber trim. I obsessed over the collar. Okay, Paul, are you ready? Yes! Yes! Yes! Look at that! Look at that! That is it! That is it! Yes. Got a pitch to make? Adobe Express is the quick, easy, and free app to create anything, like this presentation.

38:10Atomic Kit, we have to talk about this. Okay. Alright, this is key. Alright. 17, you are not singing anywhere. Oh, yes I am. Oh, you are singing. Oh, Paul. Oh my goodness. Really? Oh, my God. On every microphone, every karaoke you could possibly give me. So I was brought up in pubs. Okay. Sunday's karaoke day in pub, isn't it? Okay. So I'd always got up and do Whitney Houston. I believe the children are at Future. Yeah, I was always singing. Always singing. And dancing as well? Dancing was my forte. All right. So you were never classically trained. Never. You taught yourself. Self-taught, yeah.

38:48Look at that. And it seems like you taught yourself by doing all the karaoke, et cetera, seeing what the feedback was from the crowd. Yeah. And then you would adjust. Well, bear in mind the crowd who I'm performing to. And my mum and her mates are like blowing smoke up my ass, making me feel like I'm amazing. You know, but I was an entertainer. And I used to get on the mic all the time. So I was always singing. I could belt out a shoe. So you believed you were talented? I am talented. Okay. So I... Are we in the ages? she said i am i am you know so interesting because sometimes when i talk to artists right they'll say no i'm not but then others will say of course i am right and i see that there's a level of confidence talent i have a gift i enjoy performing i enjoy going on stage i can sing i love acting i love i love making people happy i love making them smile and i've been gifted with it because I think a lot of it from my childhood having to act so grown up and being in situations that you should never be in I just sat at Arsemaster was able to change that environment around yes I see it and that's why I'm so grateful and I'm not like oh pardon me my childhood was so bad I mean 10 years ago I've never cried about this never but I've done a lot of healing on myself I know it's okay to be sad about it it never bothered me yes I used to say like it was reading off the script.

40:21Yes. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Yes. That's funny, that. But, you know, knowing that you did karaoke in particular and knowing that you are this entertainer, right, it now, that even makes more sense, right, to me. But it seems like at 17, the goal wasn't necessarily I'm going to be a pop star. I just wanted to be famous. The pastry stuff, I just thought, oh, this is great. But I never, ever, ever expected this level. So how did it happen? I ended up getting a job on Menomotors. If you Google it, it's on YouTube. I show it to Paul, and I've got this silver key in the arm. And it's later, I had to dance all sex on the camera.

41:03And that's it. I don't even know how I ended up getting that job. So I was in a nightclub, 17. I remember exactly what I had on. I had this sequins white thing with a bra that wrapped around my skin. And I was doing all this because I thought it was a good note. Because I used to do Michael Jackson impersonations. Did you really? I used to go to competitions as a kid and be the only woman, girl, little girl to win. Look at that. I know. Really? Could you break dancing? Yeah, all that. Oh, wow. Like a moonwalk. Yeah, don't we show you? Can you moonwalk? Don't we show you? Are you serious? Yeah, right there.

41:41Ready for this.

41:47What? Hold on, Kate. That's not a moonwalk. It's on the moon. But that's not a moonwalk, though. I can do a moonwalk. I can do it on this car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, of course I can do it. You know what? I'm doing it on Neil Armstrong. That's how confident you are. You're like, of course I can do it. No, but I can. I can't do it on this car. No, no. Am I doing that? So you were then in a... You were like a background dancer, though, for another... What was that? So the Palm Kings, this is how it all started. I was in a nightclub, I was underage, I was with my boyfriend, Carl Dundon, and this guy called David T approached me.

42:24He was like, you know, I'm in this band, got this, like, we're looking for dancers. We're in the Palm Kings. Anyway, the next day, we rang up and it was legit. Oh, yeah, we remember you. And two weeks later, Paul, I'm in Germany. on some MTV war things in a pink like unitard short thing pretending to play the keyboards in front of 10 ,000 people. I shit you not. So you're just...

42:59You know, I was not sexy girl when I, you know, given it all that. Wild. Wild. And then it's a, we've got this, I think it was a taxi or a Rolls Royce that was a Union Jack all over it and he wanted me to be the model for their album cover. Okay. And I had to crawl on the front cover of this Rolls Royce. I was 17, I just don't mean. Like, living on my own, trying to get as much money, like... And I was modelling, I was on their album and HMV and shit like that. And then he started giving me gigs, singing that song, but miming to it. And I just go on the stage, like going...

43:41It's not even me. It's not even you. You are lip syncing, right? But you're doing this because you're just hired to be, to play a role. Just like in a nightclub. We just wanted someone. And that's what I was doing. And then Davey T turned around and said to me, there's a guy called Andy McCluskey from All Cash, From Maneuvers in the Dark, OMD. OMD, yeah. Right? Yes. He said, he sat in a girl bar and said, I think you should go and audition. Never been to an audition in my life, bro. Ever. But so OMD was creating Atomic Kitten. Andrew O 'Kluski, I spoke to Andrew, they were still good friends. Really?

44:17So you know what? I did this for OMD. Do you know how many albums this group has sold? They're huge. All cast from Rose in the Dark. They are absolutely huge. It is unbelievable. So yeah, OMD. You're the gay. You should have stayed at home yesterday. They've sold over 40 million records globally. Yeah. Like huge. I didn't have a clue who was Paul. You didn't know? I didn't have a clue. You were just... I just walked in. I'll just go along. I'll go along. Got the train to Liverpool. Had my portfolio for my page three photographs, right? 17 years of age. Right, by yourself? By myself. Okay. I thought, what, forgot to lose?

44:57I didn't know who these men were. David T picked me up from Liverpool station. Got in his car. He took me in. He said, hiya, Andy. He said, this is a girl I was telling you about. I didn't know how big these people were. I didn't know how well-known they were until I went home and he gave me CD. I went, oh, fucking hell, I know that one, Walking on Milky Way. So I walked in. You know me, Paul. Walked in. How you love? How we doing? Here's me patiently, you know, told, like, loads of jokes. And I think I sang Big Spender. Hey, Big Spender. I'm a very theatrical performer, you know. Yes. And they based the band around my personality.

45:35So were you the first? Yeah. I'm the founder member of Atomic Kitten. Okay, so they got you. And then how did they identify the other members? So we held auditions. Oh, okay. Now, at this point, I couldn't afford to pay me rent. I couldn't, like, afford to pay. I wasn't getting any income. So I turned 18 now at this point, still in Atomic Kitten. That's when I started lock dancing while I was forming Atomic Kitten. Really? Fully nude. At 18. At 18? Yeah, I only did it for three weeks, but I was topping.

46:15I only did it for three weeks, but I made$10 million. So then that, from what I understand by that, is that there was no money coming from the group. No, no, no. So we held auditions, and I picked Heidi Range. Okay. From Sugar Babes. Wow. And Liz McClanum. Liz is the most beautiful soul Such a beautiful soul And Heidi when she sang Oh my god Amazing She was an amazing singer Wow so you picked them Which I did not know Together like I was working with Andy Stuart and Martin So like I was like Because of how I hold myself as well And how I insert myself into people It was like okay so what are we going to do next then You know I love this song I remember taking the cassette home of the songs and me learning and getting off my head with my mum and thinking like I was a superstar.

47:08That's what it was like. That's how you felt. That's how it was. So you felt like... And everyone took the piss like me now, but no one believed it. I said, I'm in the girl band, honestly. Yes, but no one believed you. And our aunt was like, I think you should get a proper job. Like, you know, just in case. I said, I'm telling you, I'm in a girl band. Honestly, no one believed me. At that time, who were the bigger girl bands out? Spice Girls. The Spice Girls were out at that time. Bewitched. Bewitched, yes. Yeah, Spice Girls Bewitched. Okay. Okay. So you thought, did you feel like we could be just as big, if not bigger?

47:40Yeah, I just, I was having a great, I was living my best life. Yeah. It's like, we just done the girl, you know, the boy band documentary that they did. Yeah. We just done the girl band documentary. And Andy, Andy McCluskey, we've been on phone to each other. And he literally has just sent me across unseen footage from the start of Atomic Kitten that I've never seen. just to make sure that I was okay with what was in there. I couldn't watch it all. It was quite emotional. Really? And I'm going, oh, my God, I made all these routines up. And then we're doing all the shitty nightclubs. We're doing all the school tours.

48:11The climb to fame, Paul, was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. Getting there, I hated it once I got it. That climb of it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, anyway, we had Liz and Heidi. Okay. And one of them didn't like one or the other. One of them slapped somebody. Anyway, Heidi wanted to go solo. I remember everywhere Heidi went. Can we talk about that? Yeah, what? You said one of them slapped one of them? Yeah, I don't know why. Okay, so they... I wasn't there. So they got into a fight. This time. Okay. Nothing to do with me. You were not there. I can't believe it. So they didn't like each other.

48:47I don't know what I'd gone on like. So I was the eldest. So I, like, I think Heidi was 14, Liz was 15. They had to have chaperones. Okay. No one could tell me what Dupal, because I've never had rules. That's why I was always in trouble, and I was in Hugo Smith's office at the record company, and he's always kicking the door through. Because they said, we signed the band, but we don't want the blonde girl. She's a loose cannon. Okay, but this begins to make sense, right? You're older than them. I've lived on my own since 16. You've lived on your own, right? I've got the upbringing of ad. Absolutely.

49:22So they don't like each other, and then it's Heidi. Heidi Lee, she wants to go solo. And then they went and got Natasha Hamilton, without my knowledge. Anyway, met Tash. She was, I think she was the youngest out of all three of us. I met Tash. I can't stand her. You know, she was, like, very strong character, like, telling what routines to do. And I said, I don't like her. I don't think she's a fit. And they said to me, look, give her two weeks. If you don't get on, we'll change her. But she's got a great voice. I thought, oh, fair enough. And I fell madly in love with her. Did you? We were like that.

49:53Okay. I loved her to be. It's like we were super, super stupid. Close. So once the three of you came together for the first time. But with Clayton, we got a record deal. Four weeks. Look at that. How did you get the deal? Andy. So obviously Andy organized. So what you had to do, we was called Honeyheads, Exit. And then we added a fashion designer who was doing our clothes for us. And her label's called Automatic Kitten. Okay. And I think it was Slippery Siddle. someone who said oh it's a bit of a mouthful that should be atomic i went back and said why don't we call us atomic kitten and that's what it was so then we had a showcase okay where different like we send we send ocds and albums off to different people different record companies and we had a showcase and we did all the routines and it was all my work and you know that was me yes You heard Michael Jackson?

50:52Yeah. Yeah, I see. I was like, so come on, baby, do it to me good now. Do it to me slowly. Be the one and only. Yeah, so I, that, yeah. Choreographer? Yeah. What? I did not know it. I did not know it. Were you writing as well? No, fuck that. I can't do that shit. Oh, God, no. Bleeding hell. It's just depressing. It's suicide. I wrote a song. Okay. I'm not passionate about music in that respect. I love musicals. I love theatre. I get goosebumps. My kids are in Brossom in theatres. They're a different breed to who I am. Yes, you love the performance. I love the performance. I couldn't sit there and go, oh, that cute.

51:33Whereas my oldest daughter, Molly, she's a great songwriter. Like, the passionate part, I was not, I just wanted to get on the stage. Just let me get on the stage and entertain everybody. So then during the first time as Atomic Kitten on stage performing, do you remember that? No. You don't? I remember the showcase I was doing. We did, Paul, it's so difficult. We did everything everywhere. I just remember, I'll never forget, we had to do, obviously we had to do a music video first. That I'll never forget, and that was right now. Okay. And that's when I was like, this is like, I remember when we got the record deal, it was Innocent Records.

52:14Billy Piper, Marty McClutchin. Yes. Then they signed Blue a little bit later after I was like, I never get it with me. I'm like reading that Marty McClutchin. I got this. I was very good at manifesting. I was very good at visualising and it just happening. And I remember Marty McClutch got this one million pound record deal of Innocent Records. And I said, I'd love that. So can you imagine? And he ended up on the same label as her. It's weird. It was really weird. And then Mia and Billy Piper went in toilets. You had the biggest boobs. Very surreal. Oh, really? I can see headlines now. Here we go.

52:52True stuff. That was the competition. I won. You won. Oh, my gosh. But in that moment, though, think of Carrie Katona, where you had come from. You know when I got the record deal? When we did the showcase to the record people, they all kept coming in and out. and then Hugo Smith sat there and he went, I want to sign you guys. And we're like, oh my God, you just think, oh, it's dead glamorous and all that and we want to sign you and we're on SMTV, you're going to do CD UK, we're going to get you on Top of the Pops. And we're like, these huge TV shows back in the day, and we're like, oh my God, and Liz went and rang her mum and Tash went and rang her mum and dad and my mum was, I've got a record deal and she, I can't find the cat!

53:36I was like, no. Did you call anyone else? No. I don't know. No. Until people saw it, I just thought no one believes in me anyway. Yeah, yeah. How did you feel, though, knowing what you had already gone through at that point in your life to now, something that you've always wanted? I think I didn't really appreciate it at the time, to be honest with you, Paul, because you're so busy. It's not what you think it's going to be. I enjoyed the climb. I enjoyed getting there. I loved doing all the gigs and, you know, starting to get recognized and people asking for autographs. And I just, I was an entertainer.

54:12I was like, I was a loose cannon. I was like, hiya, everybody, you know. I cheered everybody up. It's then when you become super famous and there's always one of you in the band who press focus on. There's always one of you that's like, okay, who's press worthy here? Yes. And so before we released anything, we had to sit down with lawyers individually in case anything came out and tell them everything. I think Tash was in there, what, 40 minutes? Liz was in there 40 minutes. Six hours later. Yeah. Well, this might come out. My mum was a lesbian. I didn't know my biological, like, you know. And she's like, fucking hell.

54:51Wow, wow. And it seems as if you were the target. Yeah, I think because I was the eldest, I was gobby, I was pretty, I had the boobs. At the early stage of the atomic kit, you can see the girls following my lead. I've actually seen it when I walk in the room. You know, they were, I'm not saying this was down to me, this was down to us as a solo group, but you could see, looking back on those videos, you can see that I didn't give a shit, no one ever looked after me. So they were my girls. Yes. So I'd always get in the shit for the girls. I wasn't media trained. Right. I didn't go to, I didn't go to theatre school.

55:26Right. I, I was just me. Yeah, you were, you were. Have you ever been on a date where you're trying so hard to just be yourself that suddenly it feels impossible? You start overthinking everything. How to sit normally, what to do with your hands. Then you end up doing something weird like this. Now, let's flip that. I want you to think about how you are when you're with your best friend. It's usually when we're our truest selves. And when you're in that zone, it's actually a great time to meet someone new. In that setting, you're naturally thriving. It's why our sponsor, Tinder, created their new double date feature, where you and your bestie can connect with other single pairs.

56:11Instead of that high-pressure one-on-one environment, now you're at a group hang. Conversation flows better, and if you stumble, your bestie is literally right there to catch you. If solo dating makes you act like a glitchy version of yourself, invite a friend along. Download Tinder today and try double date. Because everything is better with your bestie. Can we talk about the success? Right. So here's what I see. Is the group released their debut, your debut single right now. It reached number 10 in the UK charts. Right. That was amazing. That was fun. I'll never, ever, ever forget that. Because that was back in the day when you used to press record to listen to top 10 chart with Dr.

56:59Fox. you know and then we heard it on the radio oh my god i can't believe it was all in my mom's flat everyone loved me mom we all love being with my mom i think we've been gigging somewhere we've gone oh my god we've gone straight in at number 10 that was huge that's huge and then i remember seeing the box yeah you have boxing v8 and i was like oh my god i'm on the telly this is mental yeah and that's the first time that all of those people that you grew up with now are seeing that you were not lying oh it's weird you so how did they react so i went out not thinking anything like to local nightclub that i always went had two drinks had to leave this is mad i just walked in and everyone's like not because you don't see that you've been everywhere because you're so busy you don't get to right do you know what i mean and then it was just like it was weird like could be in the toilet and you could hear a girl outside.

57:55Yeah, she's been sleeping with my boyfriend and she's my sister. Just making pure shit up just to use your name. Right. Weird. But why do you think that happened to you and it felt like so quickly? Don't know. I've no... It was like I was famous before I was famous in Warrington just for being a good looking girl. Okay, I see. Everyone knew who Kerry Katona was. All right. It seems like there was a lot of attention on you. I've always had attention on me, Paul. That's the thing that it's not like... and it was just because of my looks back in the day and the boobs like I was famous for being a pretty girl but i mean outgoing and the girls ate it because it was really nice but in the group though you don't feel like there was even more that the attention was magnified it was yeah it got to a certain point um especially when i got with brian at fadham that even before brian i remember i was so scared because i'm a pastry photographs coming out they didn't want that you when you're in a girl band it's not like you're a boy band you got to really try to get your fans because they're mainly girls and they don't like pretty girls sometimes so i had to be a bit more are you love how are you doing and be a bit silly with the girls so oh she's lovely here interesting so i think that's where that came from did you have i would imagine that there were meetings about this oh god but i was always in trouble like they've got all your page free photographs carry on oh my god i'm gonna get sats i'm gonna ruin everything and you know it was it It was an unknown world to me.

59:30Did they ask you to be more reserved and toned down at all? No. I don't think anyone can tell me to do that part. Do you? Well, you know, because I remember, so in these conversations. That was the main thing of Atomic King. We were Narvaners. We wasn't media trained. You know, I didn't go to theatrical school. And people liked that. I think that was what was unique. And we had great songs. Okay, okay. So then for, you know, when you think about the industry, especially during that time, right, there was a lot of, I think, poor management, poor record deals. Oh, we was on like 250 a week. 250 pounds.

1:00:09I left Atomic Kitten with 36 grand in my bank and bought me my house and moved to Ireland. It was ridiculous. But you're giving everything for free. Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry. 250 pounds even during something like that it might pediums it might even with the when you released Hole Again number one in the UK stayed there for four consecutive weeks number one in 19 countries salary didn't change well I left them I left just before Tom and Kitten went before Hole Again went to number one it's my single my song my vocals right and then Jenny came to finish off the promotion because I was pregnant with Molly and I didn't actually realized that I didn't want to be rich and famous.

1:00:52I just wanted to be a mom and a wife. Okay. I just crave that family unity. Behind the scenes, say I'm like on stage, SMTV, the shit that's going on with my mom at home with her boyfriend, who now she's seen somebody else who they're fighting and beating up, and I've got to go on stage and go, if you see me walking down the street, just have me on the phone. You know, the other girls didn't really have that. Yes. So it's a lot to deal with. It is. So you had the stresses of what's happening to your mother, right? You're aware of that. And then because my mom's history started to come out in the newspaper, that was on me then.

1:01:28So I'm like, I'm so sorry, what can I do? I'll get you some coke or get you a new kitchen or, you know, it was looking back on it, but it was hard. I don't even know how I got through it. Exactly. It was a lot because it was a lot. What was, when you think about... Like for that, I find harder than my childhood. The Atomic Kitten era. That I found that more, because I was more grown up and more aware, how, like, even going through what I went through with Dave and me mum, like, ten years ago, I would have cried about that. My core, I feel, is my mother. Because of what I went through, I've now got the strength to get through whatever comes at me because of me mum.

1:02:15Because of her. But in the group, though, before you left at 19, because I know that you left and then there's a return. Or 20. So between 18 and 20, right? An atomic kitten. What was a highlight for you, though? What was a moment that just always brings a smile to your face that was just surreal? I'll never forget we were supporting Steps. First of all, we supported 9-1-1. I remember we were supporting Steps in these, like, massive arenas. I'll never forget singing the song. And I looked down at this little girl behind the barriers. She shook her. And she was singing it back to me and I pointed at her.

1:02:53She must have only been about eight or something and her mum's got over. And the smile, because I pointed at her, that made her so happy. Yes. That for me was, wow. I made that little girl smile just by a little point and that's why I hate this industry and all the obnoxiousness and the egotistics. Something so tiny and so kind to make that for me. Yes. was I did that. Wow, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. And I could see, always wanting to be the performer, what you are is you're bringing joy and you brought joy to her. That's all I want for everybody. People wanted for me and then a piece.

1:03:27I think doing our first single for me was huge. And then doing SMTV and CGK and doing all those shows for me was just, oh, it was crazy. What about meeting idols that you've had? I've met everybody. Have you? Please. I've had a blessing off the Pope. Did you really? I got picture frames from Mariah Carey. I went for a meal with Smokey Robinson and that was cool. Are you serious? Oh, my God, yeah. Went Memphis with Peebo Bryson. Went shopping with Candy Staten at Bloody Macy's. Tom Jones was the best. Tom Jones? So we were doing the Pepsi chart show and he was doing Catatonia, It's Cold Outside.

1:04:06And we're all looking in his pants because all you say stuff sucks on there. We never met him in our lives. And watching it monitor, we're all down. in the green room and Tom comes walking in never met any because I already saw sex and somebody came and I went Tom catch me never met him in my life and he stood there like that Paul he went and I ran up to him I let him put my legs around and I went bleh I don't know I just showed him and put my legs around and we got on great after that you did I hate to ask this but I have to because you you said you were checking to see if he had socks well that was a remo wasn't it did he did he use socks I don't know if he had socks down there but he was I mean, it was alright I mean, we were like, ooh, it's Sam Jones, you know what I mean?

1:04:49And I got him doing autographs for my mum and he put love and knickers Oh, did he? Because my mum did a massive scrapbook of all, everything Man. When we first got into the industry, we had like Westlife and A1 and I was never starstruck by any of these people because I was brought up on, my first concert was Dr. Hook Dr. Hook, wow Yeah, that and Rod Stewart Ross Stewart Oh my gosh He's ace for me Ross Stewart is ace Don't man I just love him So if we're in our car We get driven everywhere So I'd always have The back seat to myself And the two girls Would have the recliners I'd listen to like Roger Stewart Roy Orbison Country and Western Motown You know That's what I was brought Liz I listened to Westlife And Boyzone And Tasha I listened to all her R &B And Dr.

1:05:39Dre And all So completely different genres Yes And like we went to, it was at Smash It's Tours and they were all giddy. Oh my God, there's all these people here. I'm thinking, I don't know who anybody is. So I'll just present. I remember saying, excuse me, love, do you know where Lou is? And Lisa was like, that's Ben from A1. I went, oh, it's A1. I don't know. And that's how I ended up meeting Brian because she was obsessed with Westlife. I went, go asking for a picture. She's like, can't. I said, I know. Oh, really? So you didn't even know who Westlife was? I knew of them. But, you know, you knew the songs and stuff, but to me, Rod Stewart's an artist.

1:06:15They're still, Killing a Georgie Boy, their songs, that's proper music. Okay. You know, Motown, you know, Smokey Robinson and... Yes. You know, Donnethy Moore, I was with Donnethy Moore and Sheila Ferguson and he dressed in a room with him, you know, because David Guest was one of my best friends. So because of David, I spoke to Michael Jackson's mum on the phone, Catherine, I went for Mila the Jacksons. You did ask me who I've met, didn't you? Oh, my God. What did Michael Jackson's mother have to say? I was like, I and Catherine love you. All right, I want kids. David's told me so much about you, Carrie.

1:06:51I thought, fucking hell, it's weird. I'm like, yeah. All right, incredible. Because David loved me. He was one of my bestest friends, David, and he took me on a great journey. He followed me everywhere. Wow, look at this. Look at this. There's me all with Smokey Robinson. That was like just me. I went along, met David, and Smokey came out. She went, Kerry, David told me something. And he was like, yeah, I went to a witness funeral. And, you know, Diana was there. And Diana Rossi went, you know, David tells me you're going to bed. And I was like, no, it's nothing real itself. You're not really much talk about love.

1:07:23Yeah, it was just this. Incredible. Yeah. Just incredible. I've done loads. And then I met Mariah. Brian introduced me to her. Because they did a song together with Westlife and Mariah. Okay. And it was at the Top of the Pops Awards. Because he wanted me to fly out while they were filming. but I was pregnant with Molly and I thought, I don't want to go out there. I feel weird because I left the band. And then I was doing lots of presenting and he said, oh, come meet Mariah. And I went in his dressing room and she's like that. Was she like that? She's like that, you see. You know, it's all beautiful and smelling nice.

1:07:57And I walking, oh, I love you, and we did live. She's like, what? I always hear that Mariah Carey on her rider, she is so lovely. Yeah, I heard she, She's super sweet, but then also has her on a rider. It's roses. Is it like white flowers? It's white stuff everywhere. But for me, what I noticed is it's the people around her, all these yes people. But it was like she almost didn't want me to leave because I was just like, how are you doing? How are you feeling? I mean, I presented awards at the MTV Awards at Liverpool, and the award I gave it to is Gerard, what's his name, from Suicide Squad, who plays the Joker.

1:08:34Oh, my gosh. He's in 30 Seconds of Glass. Oh, let him. That's it. Yeah, I mean, I went in for a kiss, I didn't get one. You know what I mean? And my dressing room's next to Katy Perry and Pink, and I've got imposter syndrome. I went to Hugh Grant's birthday party last year. How the fuck have I gotten invited to Hugh Grant's birthday party with this early in Joan Collins? Oh, my goodness. Do you know what I mean? I know what you mean. And I'm just like, this is crazy. I know what you mean. So then when you start to think about the lowest moment in this zone of life where everyone thinks you're up, Right.

1:09:08What was that moment for you? In the song of Kitten? Yes.

1:09:17It's too many parts. There's always somebody in the band who they prefer with press. And the other two girls didn't like that. I wouldn't like it. And like we do SMTV, we do chums with Ant and Dec. Yes. And Conor McAnally, he was a beautiful, loved me. He loved me energy. So I was always, Gary, can you be in trouble today? And they go, why? It's nothing. I got no say over this. If you want to do what you do, it doesn't bother me. And then I'll never forget we did a photo shoot with Beverly Goodway. Wow, look at that. When I did the page three. Full circle. Full circle. And it was the three of us for page three for the sun in leather cat suits like this.

1:09:58All three of us promoting one of our songs. I remember getting up. I was up at 4 a.m. to go to some Disney Channel show or something. I said, oh, I'll go get the papers. Me and Carla, I told my manager, went in the petrol station. I remember opening it up and went, oh, for fuck's sake. And he went, it's just you, isn't it? I went, yes, I'm not getting in the car. Wow. I didn't ask for that. And then obviously when I started dating, and then obviously the pastry modelling stuff came out, then me and mum came, and it was just all my, it was very focused. And then I started dating Brian. This is the perfect time then to talk about Brian.

1:10:33Because your life lives. He doesn't like me talking about him. But Brian's a part of my story. Only a small part. Right. There's been so much more than Brian. I'm eternally grateful to what he is, you know. And it's a pivotal moment in your life because you're. I'll never forget walking down that aisle. I'm thinking, this is crazy. Like four years ago, I was in a semi-independence home. and I've got Louis Walsh and Dane Bower singing and the London Gospel Choir and I've got Westlife at the altar. I remember walking down the aisle looking at me and I'm going it's crazy. So how do you and Brian meet?

1:11:11Smash It's tour. 1999 I think it was. Okay so you're in this tour you're not too familiar well Westlife is huge it doesn't have One Direction. Okay. They had like 13 number ones they were jeez massive jeez massive okay but but you're not too familiar with them well i i we was at smash it's tour and liz we came out of a lift i'll never forget it and liz went oh my god oh my god there's brian from westlife oh my god i went oh i was so excited for her i went oh which one is he which one is he with the top on there i went go over and say hiya because i didn't give a shit me I said, excuse me, love.

1:11:52I said, is your name Brian? I said, my friend's a really big fan. Can she come and say hiya? And that was it. And that was it. And then, like, there's just lots of flirting. And I wasn't that keen, to be honest, at first. I was too busy enjoying myself. But Brian was like, he got proper obsessed. No, it wasn't love at first sight for me. You know, I think he was my first husband, my first time I had a child, my first proper love. It was so romantic. It was a fairy tale. So in those early stages. Brian was my very first love, I think. It was your first love? Proper love, yeah. Okay. Proper grown-up love, yeah.

1:12:32Okay. I say grown-up. We were 18 when we met. It was so overwhelming. And we were still only babies, Paul. Do you know what I mean? It was, plus all this attention. It was madness. Yeah. So as you two are coming together, I would imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that management, et cetera, probably did not want you two together. Fucking hell, Paul. We went through it. I got sacked and everything. Like, Lou Walsh hated me and then he met me. He went, I don't like you. I don't like you either because no one could control me. I remember being at the Brit Awards and sat on Simon's table and I was on phone to my uncle.

1:13:07Oh, I've just met Eminem. He gave me a cuddle. Oh, he was lovely. You know what I mean? And Simon went, can you get off the phone? And I went, I don't work for you. You can't tell me what to do. And because I always stood up for myself, they end up really liking me in the end. But it was a nightmare. I got fired. The girls turned against me because record companies say, that's it. You know, you're going to ruin everything. So they thought their careers were hanging by the throat because I was dating Brian. We tried to keep it dead secret. Did you? And why would they think your career or their careers would be ruined with you dating Brian?

1:13:40Because when you're in a boy band and you have fans where they have fans and fans own that boy band. And then we're not going to sell records because then they hate me because I'm dating. They literally think those men, they belong to them. So it's that fine line of, and that's why I think I end up being like that. Are you love? Come on, let's have a cigarette together. You know, fans are that just so that they didn't hate me kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? So that's part of a character that kind of came into play a little bit. Because I don't talk like that all the time. No, no, no. But you two loved each other so much, you said.

1:14:14I remember I was staying at the garden next to Princess Diana's house. And we snuck off and we climbed over the fence and went for a walk. And it was just a romantic. And I think he proposed to me after three weeks. Dang. Yeah. Then it became about me and Brian and not the music or the girls and every question. And I fell pregnant. Okay. Okay, I don't mind this. So he proposed three weeks into you seeing each other. Mm-hmm. That's quick. We were babies. You were babies? Yeah. He's like a promise ring, really, I think. But you accepted right away? Yeah. Brian really made me laugh. He's so quick-witted and so funny.

1:14:59His humor is what won me over. Yes. He was so funny, and he really loved me. We were so in love, Paul. so affectionate and it was great and he i think he was a first proper person who generally cared about my well-being do you know what i mean i told him that what happened in me like he said i'm gonna take you away from all that and he was my knight in shining armor look at that he was this refuge he he rescued me i i don't mind i know he doesn't like it and you know that's part my story. Yes, yes. And she was my 90s eye in Armour and that's when I left and he wanted me to leave Atomic Kitten.

1:15:39We was about to get dropped. Atomic Kitten? Yeah, because we brought out a song called Follow Me. It did shit in the charts but there was a storm that time and then we begged the record company, can we please just bring that whole again on a budget? And this is where me and Brian, everyone knows the dates. There's so much publicity around the song as well and around us. And then I found out I was pregnant. I was dreading telling everybody I remember doing SMTV and ringing me and going, Hiya, Mom, by the way, I'm pregnant. Bye. I've got to go on telly now. Put the phone down and it went on live telly singing.

1:16:11Yeah. I was actually, I actually conceived Molly the night before that video was filmed. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. So if you could think back to one moment, which I know will be hard because you said there are many moments, but one moment where you truly felt like this was, this is, it doesn't get any lower than this. This was the floor. I think for me was when the open lead pictures came out and I was pregnant with Molly. All these family are Irish Catholics and I was like, they're just all going to hate me. I wanted to be famous to perform and have a good time on stage. I just didn't expect them to dig so deep into my life and my past as they did and think, this is madness.

1:16:56Yes. This is like, I didn't sign up for this. Yes. so with those photos coming out how did that impact you and those around you somebody posted a handwritten um no letter from my mom's doll wishing me to die and my baby to die and it was like i was getting bottles thrown at my head because of the brine it was just it was just it's fight or flight and because my mom always made it about her I didn't really have time to make it about me okay so that kind of got me through it does that make sense okay okay do you know what I mean it does it does it does so you weren't necessarily processing any of this for yourself no I just Paula just cracked on yeah I just cracked on I think that's why you know as I got when I got older just I just broke it's like having a computer open all these different tabs opened on it and it's a boom yes you know you you you dare see your job you're so scared in case you get fired yes fans are hating yeah you're dating a boy band it's in the papers you got your tits out you don't know and it it just gets to the point that it's like this is i didn't this is i didn't sign up for this and when you're in a girl band or any band it's not glamorous at all you work your fucking ass off that's the difference with those celebrities to these celebrities now we grafted to get to where we got to you don't just go and do a tiktok now or going on a reality show.

1:18:27I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that. Do you know what I mean? But we really grafted, like, we had to do, like, all the shitty nightclubs and we had to do all the school performances and busking the street. Like, that climb for me. And then I think the first single, the second single for me was amazing. After that, when I started dating Brian, just before Brian, and the focus came on me and my past, I was like, this is not what I expected. and then reporters like constantly knocking on your family's door. That was when people was always telling me, we haven't sold a story on that.

1:19:01I didn't speak to her for a couple of years. Really? Can we talk about the press, right, and how they hounded you? I will never forget Jamelia when she was on talking about her phones being tapped. And from what I understand now is that many phones were tapped, especially during this period. The press was incredibly intrusive. so what was your relationship like with the press during that time i didn't i was i didn't really know because everyone dealt with it like in the record company you just go and do what you do and do you you know smash its magazine and um all the magazines that you used to do like photo shoots that's what that's what you used to do but then it got to a point where um especially when i left atomic came and i got with brian that that's when i got max clifford because he was he was the main dude.

1:19:54Max Clifford was the main dude. I was like his adoptive daughter. He actually gave me away to one of my weddings and I named my son after him. He banned the newspapers, basically. He'd be like, you're not writing that, here's the story. Everyone went to Max Clifford, but Max took a real shine into me. So I hired Max. Well, I went to hire him before I went in the jungle because I think the Westlife boys had him on a retainer. And I went, I don't want to go in the jungle and not see me dad first. and see my dad. So I went, Brian took me to Max Clifford and he didn't charge me and obviously I won the show and he never put me on a retainer or anything but if he got me somewhere, he'd get a percentage of it but he became like my stepdad.

1:20:34The press was after the jungle. That was when, that was a different level, that part. I just won the jungle in February and Brian left me in the September after flying out declaring his love to me because Brian didn't want me to do the jungle. He said I'd make a show of myself. All right. So, okay. I definitely want to get to the jungle. I was trying to get to the press. And the press. But even back, even back, just because I'm curious, because you left, you decided to leave Atomic Kid. Yeah. And that's something I didn't realize. Yeah, it was my choice. Everyone went, oh, you got a kiss? I was like, no, I wanted to leave.

1:21:09I didn't enjoy it. I didn't want the fame. Hate. Paula hated it. So help me understand. Yeah. Someone who, since they were five. Yeah. Wants to be the star. wants to perform you then get it which is rare to get it you are in one of the hottest groups in the UK undoubtedly and in many regions around the world and then you opt to leave help me understand why well I'm dealing with my mum the press for our focus on me I didn't sign up to do that and and my mum had such a hold on me that I I just I wasn't I wasn't enjoying myself and I realised when I fell pregnant that all I actually ever really wanted was to be a mum and a wife and have that upbringing that I never had.

1:21:57So that for me was like, I've met the man of my dreams, my knight in Cheyenne armour, he's going to rescue me, we're going to go live in Ireland, I'm moving abroad, I'm having a baby, you know, we're financially sorted and he can go off to work and I'll be a housewife and that's what I wanted. That's it. Did you get it? For a little minute.

1:22:20No, not really. No, it was... No, no. I don't think I've really had it properly, really. Well, mine was a good one. Okay. No, it was just... I've made some great memories with him. I think... Well, I've got it now, I hope. Yeah, but... But it's been... It wasn't for... Because it was, it was, because when I say how big this wedding was, how, when me and Brian got married, I can't explain how big of a deal that was. I mean, you said the Pope gave a blessing. Yeah, he sent us a big certificate. I mean, that's, yeah, I was going to say, I think that cements, it was big. Yeah, it was huge. Like, police escorts.

1:23:10Where was it? In Ireland. In Ireland? I can't even remember where we got married. I've had that many, Paul. Are you serious? You don't remember. It was, I think it was County Meath. Yeah. And we had it at Slane Castle. Slane Castle. Yeah. Near Dublin? Yeah. Where you two and all them lot. It was phenomenal. We had a New Year's Eve party, me and Brian. And we got a big, like, you know, a big tent at Garden. and we got the commitments to come and play on New Year's Eve. Do you know what I mean? That's what it was like. It was just another level. It was just a different level of fame that is, I mean, it was like it was royal pop star royalty really, wasn't it?

1:23:56A girl from Tom and Kit and West's life, they're getting married, they're having a baby. It was everywhere. It was crazy. Yes. Did you feel like the relationship with the public and the press, did it change in any way? Yeah. Well, the thing is, I didn't know that Brian had cheated on his stag do before we got married. I only found out after we got married. Did the public know? Well, yeah, because the girl who we cheated on me with, with the lap dance, he made her sign an NDA, which was stupid, really, because it's in writing. Paid her 15 grand, keep her mouth shut, and she still went papers anyway.

1:24:27I mean... All right. Yeah. I see. It was never the same after that with me and Brian. So I think even on the wedding day, Brian must have had doubts. Okay. But we were puppies, we were babies, and it was such a huge thing to do. All right. So how long were you in that relationship with Brian? I met Brian in 1999, and we separated in 2004. We divorced in 2007. So this is the thing people think, Paul, that I've just had like these flings. I haven't, I've gone in it all wholeheartedly. Yes. And I've given it my all. Yes. did you so when you found out that he had cheated on you how many years into the marriage was it i only had molly i was doing a tv show called eliminate with itv i was a very itv girl and um i was doing lots of presenting and things and i was in bahamas okay and i was then going on to las vegas and my friend was supposed to meet me las vegas and i ran grow up she went you sure you're okay?

1:25:29Do you still want me to come? I thought, yeah, what do you mean? She goes, if you've not seen the paper, I just hung up straight away. I rang our Angela. She just went, Kerry, I'm so sorry. I said, read it to me now. Read it to me now. She read it and I was just devastated. Absolutely devastated, humiliated, mortified. What it was with that, Paul, is I'm very laid back, me. I'm dead chilled. And even after all the betrayals that have happened to me in my life, I'm still really trusting. Yes. I still give people the benefit of the doubt. Yes. I still believe in good people. But what happened with that was, because I loved it when Brian was on stage and the girls, that's a massive turn on.

1:26:12Do you know what I mean? That's an attractive quality when he's on stage singing and a girl's like, ah, I love you. You know, he's like, oh my God, that's my husband. You know, for me then, I was like, who are you ringing? Who are you texting? What are you doing? Where are you going? That's not who I am. And then I resented him for making me become that person and getting in my head going, he's on tour. What's he doing? What's he doing? You know. And I said that to him. I said, look, I said, I'm going to don't want to be that kind of person. Because you go off, you do your thing. I've got no problems, no issues, no.

1:26:42Enjoy yourself, babe. And I was the only one of the Westlife missuses who knew there was going to be lap dancers. I went, enjoy it, sweetheart. But just so I understand, when you say enjoy it. Not to go get the bloody blowjob and she gives her 15 grand. I only got a new pair. She used to be giving him a blowjob.

1:27:01Brian's gonna kill me He hates me talking about him This is all public knowledge You know what I mean It's a part of my story Yes, yes And I'm trying to fully understand your story So I'm personally I'm curious about this When you were saying Go off and enjoy yourself You were saying Go have fun Don't cross a certain line So you had a boundary Absolutely I don't share my toys, Paul Okay So you said don't cross the line But you were accepting of a lifestyle Yeah it was great Those were some of my best years of my life I was in the taxi Last night with Paolo Which we'll probably get to And Westlife came on Flying Without Wings And it was just nostalgic for me Because I remember where we were with the kids Or what we were doing Sometimes you hear some of the songs And I think oh that was a really lovely time that was I remember that's what I was really in love with him But unfortunately, because Brian's famous himself, that's where the papers then pick up on those headlines.

1:27:58And then it pisses Brian off. But unfortunately, you're a part of my story. Right. We have two children together. Right. You know, he's just got married. His wife is lovely. They've got a baby. I wish him nothing but a lifetime of happiness. And I truly wish me and Brian couldn't be friends. Okay, fair. I really do. So then, final note then on Brian. Yeah. Is how did the relationship end? because in the research I saw that there's rumours that he ended it, that you ended it, that it was mutual. How did it end? So we had Malt Lily and things were up and down and like that. And then I got off of the jungle, but in Ireland we didn't watch it.

1:28:40We didn't have ITV over there. But when I used to go over and see my mum, she goes, oh, you should do this show. I'm not doing that. I only saw a bit of it, so I didn't really know what it was about. And even though I became a housewife, I was also one of the original Loose Women. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Carrie. I was only 22. Really? I was one of the original Loose Women for years. So this was before Jungle then? Yeah. Yeah. So that was like my main job, I'd go on with the kids, and then me and Brian presented this morning for a week. We were shit. You know, the things were on this morning.

1:29:16and so I was just doing bits of presenting and I got off of the jungle and I thought oh I want to do it and Brian said to make a show of myself and I got Lou Walsh to convince Brian to let me do it okay so then once you knew you were going to do it how did that then did that disagreement no I think he was still in my life at this point he said because you know at the end when someone comes out and meets you when you walk off the bridge Yes. He said, I can't come and go and be on tour. Fair enough, I'll ask our Angela to come and meet me. He didn't want really anything to do with it. But I think that the more the show went on and the more that people saw about the plot.

1:29:57Because at the beginning, they thought I was... I got nicknamed the woman from Windjerk, because I also did, was cry. I won't go home to my mansion. I miss Brian, I miss the kids, I won't go home. I can't do it, I can't do it, no. And I was having panic attacks. I was a mess. Yeah, but I'm a celebrity, right? That show, I think, is very hard. It's very challenging. At least, I mean, I've never been on it, but from looking at it, it seems like it's challenging, right? Yeah, you've got to find your feet. Yes, and the idea is to put pressure on these celebrities. Oh, that's why you get starved. And, I mean, you really are hungry.

1:30:35You really are hungry. Yeah. But I kind of went into it blind a little bit because I didn't really, I just thought, for me, Paul, when I get asked to do these things I think what a great adventure this kid from foster home is doing these you know I don't go and sit and do a normal job 9 to 5 and I just think on my deathbed I'm going to go did it all oh my goodness done it all what a great and that's all I can tech with me I can't tech this can't tech the Lamborghinis can't do this all I can tech is the memories I've created for me and my children yes that's it yes that's all you have your last thought when you close your eyes that's going to be it.

1:31:12I came in this world with nothing, but I want to make sure I leave with every amazing memory I can possibly create. And that was part of your rationale for saying, I'm going to do, I'm a celebrity. Even though your husband was saying, but your husband was saying, don't do it. And me being told not to do something, Paul, doesn't really work out too well for a lot of people because they end up proving them wrong anyway. All right. And you sure did because you ended up winning. I did. All right. From what I understand, you were the first woman to win. Price ratings I've ever had. I'm a celebrity.

1:31:46Okay. Look at this. Look at this. So then you win. And when you win, you're right. Normally, there's someone that comes out from your family or friends. And it was supposed to be our Angela. Okay. And as I sat there, Ant and Deco, we got surprised. We got Brian on the phone. I was like, oh, how are you, babe? You all right? How are you doing? And then he came walking out. I was like, what are you? Oh, my God. What are you doing? Because I love you. declared his love to me and everyone was crying. It was a massive love story. And how did you feel in that moment? I was just over the moon. When you're doing a show like that, you don't realise the attention it's getting back at home.

1:32:22It wasn't that big when I... When we did it, that show made it so big. Don't forget we had Peter Andre and Katie Price in there. Yeah. Their love story. So we've got no phones, no nothing. You've got Johnny Rotten in there. I'm the youngest in there. and I think I don't, and I'm in vinyl, I'm thinking, what? I'm like, why am I in vinyl? I actually thought, I'll go in jungle, right? You go to Australia, you get put in the Zarch Hotel, so I'll be the first one voted out. I'll just go and piss with Ant and Dec. And I thought, don't walk, wait till you get voted out because I was so close to walking.

1:32:58I'm like, just wait, just wait to get voted out and then at least you can say you did as much as you could. I just kept staying and staying, I'm thinking, don't get this really i didn't get it at all but now from what i also understand is part of it is a bit of a popularity contest because it's the public that is supporting you right yeah that's what i didn't get but yeah so did you i didn't do i don't know what i did in there to have won that i don't i don't know why i don't like i did big brother i was like 17 votes off winner i was her up. I don't know what it is I did because I think I'm a bit of a knob.

1:33:37Maybe that's what it is. No, and I didn't because you had the Katie and the Peter story. They was always, you know, and then when I watched it back and then see Johnny Rotten say, I want Kerry to win this. I was like, you didn't realise how big this was in the UK. It took over everything. It was appointments. The mayor of Warrington opened up the house and the grounds and everyone who was... with a big battle with my welcome home camera. I was like, this is nuts. Wow. And they got off that plane, Paul. I've never seen press like it in my life and that's why it changed with me and Brian. And that...

1:34:18Oh, okay. So we're on the plane, me and Brian, we're on our way home. And because we're still in Australia and all that, you don't... You know, you're doing interviews where it's just one cameraman in your hotel room. You don't see the effect that it's had in England. so when I'm sat there and Art and Dec said you raised one million pounds for charity I was like what and then I gave my charity money to Temple Street Hospital in Ireland I donated the money I got to Ireland as well because I didn't need it you know we were financially fine yes and there's a plain door open Paul I've never witnessed anything like it in my life ever I remember I had that Von Dutch remember the Von Dutcher stuff you used to wear had that cap on, your jean the Von Dutcher, you thought it was their kill and the plane door opened and there was like camera crews filming me live as if I was actually the queen and I remember going like Trevor McDonald on News at 10 said and Kerry McFadden, because it was Kerry McFadden at the time won the jungle they never announced anybody else on the jungle he's won before so when I got off the plane my security, Paul, well, it was Westlife security as well, Paul Higgins was stood there waiting.

1:35:35He couldn't move in Heathrow. He couldn't move for this sea of people waiting. And I remember Paul grabbing me and my toes was like dragging. It was mental. I get in the car. Everyone's followed me. We've all gone, where's Brian? And Brian was just pushing the trolley. No paid any attention. But he was the star of our relationship, not me, because I quit everything. I gave everything up just to go do a bit of presenting. He was the superstar. And that's when I think things changed. There you go. And then he left Westlife. He wanted to be at home with his wife and kids. He didn't. He went straight into recording a studio by himself because it became like, what's it like?

1:36:14What's it been like with the Queen of the Jungle, Brian? And the Westlife boys got pissed off with it as well. Because you don't realise how big that was. I think it was like 16 million people watched it in the UK. I could definitely now understand the context, you know, the picture that you're painting where there was so much attention on you, but formally it was all on him. Yeah. Right. Like Brian was the leader. Brian was everything Brian wanted. You know, I was it was Brian's world, not mine. I never felt like I belonged in it. I never I just did things, but I always felt inadequate. I always felt not good enough.

1:36:52I felt like a little bit belittled. that's why I think I'm so loud and try putting a big presence to try and overcompensate for my own insecurities. But Brian was the main dude. And rightly so. I mean, Brian's an amazing singer, talented writer, and I'll never tell you that way from him. Yeah, global talent. Yeah. Global talent. Who is beloved, you know? Okay, I mean. I can't help myself. You can't help it. I'm joking. Okay, so how specifically did things change for the two of you in the relationship that then led to the break? So Brian left Westlife and then he wrote an album. He's a phenomenal songwriter and self-taught on the piano.

1:37:40He should have been the next Robbie Williams, to be fair. But I generally believe because of the publicity surrounding our breakdown of our marriage, it fucked it up for him. I think he blames me for that. Wow. I think he was that talented. To this day, I still think he's got such a great voice on him. I think he... I'll never tell... I'm not a nasty person. I won't say someone's shit just to be resentful if they're not. He's really talented. My daughter, Molly, gets it from him. She doesn't get it from me, does she? And he wanted to leave, and I was like, are you sure you're doing the right thing?

1:38:16And he was like, you've got to be more supportive. They had to have a Sky News and a suicide phone line because Brian was leaving Westlife. Robbie left Tate that. Nuts, Paul, honestly. And I'm just sitting there thinking, kind of miss me at some independence house back in Warrington. It's crazy. So then how does your, I mean, I can guess, but how does your then popularity and the attention on you then not only cause the demise of the marriage, but also restrict him from growing as an artist? I think because what happened was, I think maybe he left Westlife because I became so famous and wanted to do it by himself and become as...

1:39:01I have no idea. I'm talking on his behalf. He said he wasn't enjoying it. He wanted to spend more time at home with his wife and kids, me, Molly and Lila. That day he left Westlife, he went straight into records. I should have got his album. Fair enough. And then, obviously, TV shows like Brighton Centre. That are being offered to you. Yeah, yeah, you know. Yes. And he wrote his album. And then he was, like, doing duets with people. And one of them was Delta Goodrum. And I remember him saying to me, I was doing loose women. He said, oh, will you come and meet with me? I'm dead nervous. I can't.

1:39:39I said, I've got to go do loose women. And he came back and said, oh, she's lovely, you know, she's gone through cancer, her hair's coming back. And he was doing a documentary, he was being filmed about his solo life, the life of Brian it was called, during all this. So he had a camera crew following him around because he left Westlife, so it was more about him. And I just went back to doing the normal stuff. And it just got to the point where I was like, do you fancy her? You know, you're always going around. He's like, no, no, no. And me and Brian would ring each other at least 17 times a day.

1:40:11because we was always away from each other. And I remember it took three days and I was panicking. I thought something might have happened. I was at my moment doing a TV show called with a little help from my friends with Jamie Theakston. And he actually flew over for that. And he just got his first number one. It was all made up and proud of him. But, I mean, I'm not going to put this solely on Brian because I wasn't happy either, you know. I don't think things was ever right since the whole infidelity thing. And, you know, there was a lot of pressure and we're young and he just ran me up. I remember being at my mum's and he ran me up and he said, I want a divorce.

1:40:45What? I begged and begged and begged. Please, I said, no, we've got babies, please. I did for like a year, I think. For a year, okay. So when you even... The night before Mark Croft proposed to me, I was on the phone to Brian, crying, even though I knew he was with Delta Goodrum, saying, please, please, take me back. Please, I'm begging you. we have kids, let's be family. I'm sorry, Carrie, but I love Delta. Mark turned up the next day with a ring. You said, you'll take it. I wasn't interested. You'll take it. I did it anyway, just on rebound. So just a few questions in this is that, so when you got off the call that last time, Brian, then you said, went and made a statement.

1:41:29So that was then your friends. Well, I was shitting myself because without Brian, then I was like on my own because we used, everything we used press-wise was via Brian. his press association okay the westlife stuff so when he left me i have no management i have nothing i'm thinking oh my god and then max clifford rings i'm shitting myself because max can make or break you that's how max that's how powerful max was and he was westlife's like publicist really yeah no he handled everything yeah he i mean you're gonna google him you'll work it all out later how huge this guy was and he went um i'm dropping brian he said i'm disgusted at what he's done he said i'm here for you you know but it was it was just it was crazy paul i've never it was just i've never i got nicknamed this that that's when the press for me that's when that was just yeah because this so this is so fascinating to me because from the way it feels, you tell me, is that you had just won one of the biggest shows in the UK.

1:42:35I got so loved, Paul. You were at the top. People were cheering you on. And literally, you were popular because that's how you won, right? It's through popularity. I don't know what it, I don't. You were here, right? Yeah. The divorce or the statement comes out and it seems like. No. No. I went even higher. Everyone was so disgusted with Brian. and they all turned against Brian. Interesting. So he blames me for that, I guess. And you think that's what halted his career because he lost support. Yeah. And I'll never forget, like, he rang up one time and he was coming to get the girls. And he's like, yeah, we're just at Terminal something, Terminal 3 or something.

1:43:17And I kept thinking, we? We? Who's we? He come walking out with her to Goodrum. I thought, I didn't leave me and all for her. She's gorgeous. And I just remember going, no, I was happy. I was devastated just watching him walk off. Yeah. And I was. I was devastated. Absolutely heartbroken. And I actually rang him up and went, I'd leave me an Albrighton. He was laughing like I wanted to be his friend, but I was so hurt and I was still so in love and I missed him so much. You know, we were married, we had babies. Yes. You know, and I think you can be in love many different times, but that was, we were young, it wasn't easy.

1:43:55It was a lot of press attention, but it did hurt. really, really, really, really, really hurt me. I wasn't, I was far from perfect, you know what I mean? But I just, I was devastated. You wanted to fight for it. Absolutely, because that's all I ever wanted, Paul. It's that family. Yes. Of course, I wanted a house where the pictures of my kids were going up on the stairs. And, you know, I lived in Ireland. That was my home. I had to leave and move back over to England, back towards my mum. Okay, I see. So you moved closer to Warrington. All I had was my mum. Did you move in with her? No, no. I rented a house, first of all.

1:44:37Okay. And this is at a time where it pressed like Heidi in your bushes. And, oh, I've never known anything like it. There's car chases. I remember being pushed once when I was pregnant with our Heidi. It was just crazy. Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy times. How quickly after the breakup with Brian did you meet Mark?

1:45:00Well, he was my mum's drug dealer. So he was? Yeah. He used to drive up the taxes. That's how you shop off the coke and stuff. And actually, I had such a breakdown over Brian. I mean, I was a mess. And I was with James Grant at the time agency. And I went to the Priory. I knew I was doing drugs. I was back with my mum. That was my grieving process. And I couldn't do group therapy. at the Priory because my profile was so high that we couldn't guarantee that nobody in that group session would go and sell the story. So then you got paparazzi on the property of the Priory trying to get pictures. So I got sent to Arizona to Cottonwood.

1:45:45I went there for six weeks, loved it. Didn't want to come home. Really? And there in the Priory? That's when I got, that's when I had, that's when I got a viral because you have to talk about your life. That's the first time I ever got upset over Michelle's. because you have to go really deep in it all. Yes. And then at the fifth week, you have family therapy, your appreciations and your, your hate. You know, what's appreciations? What's one that you don't like? You have to sit with your family members to tell them, like, what you, you know, don't respect this. And I had to do mine also in an empty chair because no one flew out.

1:46:22Right back to being at school in the nativity plate. No one's there to watch it. And no one's there. No, mind you. And they'd ring my mum up. My mum was like, oh, we're just having a line. You know, while I'm in the, while I'm in Cottonwood. But I loved it there. I loved it. Is, were you diagnosed with bipolar there? I was diagnosed, no. I wasn't, that was in 2005 when I was diagnosed with bipolar. Okay. So at the prior race specifically, what were you treating for? So I used to go back to bipolar. Okay. They say it's trial and error, but you've got to bear in mind as well, Paul. I was doing shitloads of drugs.

1:46:54I'm on nothing now. I'm on no drugs the only thing I take is two trauma in the morning for gabbling because I've got scoliosis and my back's twisted so that's why I'm always moving because my back hurts that's it, I take all my vitamins that's all I'm on, I'm on nothing for mental health or bipolar so they said I had something called bipolar I thought it was a sport but I didn't know what it was I'm trying not to laugh I didn't know what it was But all that was was manic depressive, which is what my mother was. They just changed their name, don't they? Yes. So the technical definition of this, and I have it right here, is a mental health condition where you have extreme mood changes.

1:47:40These can be extreme highs and lows. Approximately 1.3 million people in the UK have bipolar. That's 1 in 50 people. 50 % of people with bipolar begin displaying symptoms before the age of 21. Yeah, I got put on antidepressants when I was 19 in a stomach kitten. I escaped compassionately because I couldn't handle it all. I couldn't handle the fame. And I remember Brian kicking down one of the bathroom doors at Virgin Records because of the attention. It was a lot, Paul. It was a lot to deal with. And they gave me compassionately so I could... And that's the first time I got put on antidepressants.

1:48:20I think I was 18, 19. You were 18. Being this kid in foster home and watching your mum do all this, getting everything you ever wanted, and now you've got yourself so low, you're in rehab, and I felt so ashamed. Thank God, have I really got myself this low?

1:48:42How have I got here? How did I get here? The world was watching Paul. And that's a lot to do with in itself. And you have two little children? I just felt like I really let them down.

1:48:59And to this day, it's something I've got to live with because my mistakes are their burden, unfortunately. And that's a fact. And I've got to try and not be so hard on myself because I'm a human being. Yes. And I just try to cope the best way. I could cope without the support that I had. Yes. And I made so many mistakes. So many. But I'm just a human being at the end of the day. Exactly. And it was tough. And the grace you have to give yourself is that... It took me a long time to get there, to go, look, you know what, you just did what you tried to do with the cards you were dealt. Exactly, with all the knowledge.

1:49:42And you were visioned only from what you knew on how to deal with shit. Yes, yes. You know, but it kills me that my kids I've had to go through so much just because I'm their mom. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think, I mean, I have so much, it's interesting, I have so much more understanding of you. But because of that understanding, I have so much more appreciation. Oh, thank you. Of you, you know. To understand what you saw as normal is something that many people only see in the movies. You know what I mean? It's crazy. But then also there are many people who know that as their normal. Yeah. And they are appreciative of you sharing that.

1:50:24Is someone smoking? No, the candle just went out. Oh, is that what it was? I was like, shit. The entire candle has burned out. The candle is on fire. The entire candle is gone, yeah.

1:50:39That is how long we've been talking. The entire candle. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy? We've not even got to Josh. Oh my God. Where are we going now? We've been here for 24 hours. Your entire life is a movie. George was a very twisted soul. How dare you put me and my kids through everything you've put us through. Just die. I remember Molly looked at me and said, pure disgust. You're so weak, Mum. Carrie, I want to tread carefully because this is the first time that I've seen your leg shaking. I kind of knew what I was getting myself into. I'm just grateful to be here, Paul.

1:51:22I got to live another day. It's such a hard story to hear. How did you survive?