Kerry Katona: I’ve Not Told Anyone This… What Really Happened During The Show

31:46I go back in as me and I say to her, oh my God, you've got so much that's going to happen to you. The first thing I say is, you've got these five amazing kids. These kids are going to be amazing. And then I go, you've got to go on stage. You've got to do this. You've got to do that. But these kids, you know, and this little girl is just like, it's going to be an hard kid, but I've got you now. I've said it before. I've had to be my own hero, which I'm struggling with, with Palo. How so? Because he does a lot for me. Like he carries a bag and opens a door and he's... I'm very independent. I've always been a bit of the man of the house.

32:33I'm having to learn to let go of my alpha male in me to help Paolo to be him. Does that make sense? It does. It does. Because I've always been the boss of the house. Not too much the boss or who's in control or... But that's been something new to me, to learn, to accept that it's okay for someone else to look after you a little bit, which I struggle with a little bit. Yeah, because you had to be independent. Yeah. And now you're in a relationship with someone. Who's very independent. Who's very independent. Very got the shit together. Which makes you. Doesn't need anything from me. Right. You know.

33:21um that's new for me yeah very very new yes very so you're becoming interdependent i'm sure you just made that up but yeah that is the term yeah that's the term interdependent which is something that many people who are depend who are independent have a very hard time doing because how do you relinquish you know the fact that i've just started allowing him to look after the passports. Oh, wow. That's big. Big. That's big. That's a big one, that. I'm quite old-fashioned in that respect. I love the old-fashioned ways, Paul, of a man and a wife and a husband and children and a man being the man of the house.

34:07But that's what I always create. That's why I left a stomach kitten. I got pregnant. I wanted to be a mum and a wife. That's all I ever wanted. Yes. I wanted those picture frames up on the wall and it lasts forever. that was my dreams all i ever wanted so to meet somebody like parlo who's actually so kind so generous so caring so giving so independent true to his word is um alien in a way but also really overwhelming and so fulfilling and

34:44He's 10-10. He's a one-off. Yeah, he's 10-10. He's definitely a one-off, and I can't believe I found him. When I was in a beefer, I had to go meet Anna and Tara. This is when we were filming. Yeah, I brought my gratitude book. Okay. And I said, on camera, I want to manifest my soulmate. And I read it out all on camera. And everything that was in that list, I want someone who's going to slow down swimming in the kitchen. Someone who will sing silly with me in the car. You know, someone who will be my biggest cheerleader. You know, someone who's independent. Someone who's got their own shit going on.

35:26Someone who's got their own fucking money. Everything. Right there. Right there. Yeah. Believe in it, I do. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. On the tour, though, would you ever do a tour like that again? Yeah, because I know how much it inspired others. I know how much it... I can't express to you in the meet and greets the people who came up to me who was considering suicide. Why would I say no to doing that if I could help someone change their life or save their life? Paul, I'm not joking. Like, people literally crying, saying, you've changed my life. That's...

36:10So every night I gave it everything I could because if I could help someone not do that.

36:20How was it that, because I know that you organized the tour. Oh, with the help of AB Productions obviously, but the whole thing was my idea, yeah. Yeah, yeah. How did you choose? Well, I actually chose the presenters and I got Jamie's to help write it and put it together the production company i've worked with for years they like my family okay and the whole point of it was i'm a woman's woman um i could be a tomboy but i never looked down on anybody unless i'm helping them up right and that was the whole point with kate people that tell me not to work with her don't do this i was like hang on a minute i know what she's been through and i was why would we not do that yeah and panto was such a great we you know she was amazed on it Oh, so you two had done Panto together?

37:07Yeah, yeah, we did Panto together the year before. Okay, okay. Yeah, and it was a sellout. Oh, of course it was. Of course it was. It's not me. I mean, Kate's here, I'm here. It's always been like that. Yeah. Okay, can we talk about you and Katie? We're not going to go to the place, but let's talk about you and Katie, because I think that many people would say, I don't even understand how these two are friends. Really? Yeah. Can I explain something about me and Kate? Our lives, we're very different people. We're, I think you know that. Yes. But our lives are very mirrored. And I don't think there's anybody in this industry who understands what I've been through like Kate.

37:52And no one understands what Kate's been through like I do. Five children, three husbands, both been bankrupt both under drugs both glamour models both been horrendous headliners so we understand that and we get that okay when we're together banter's great but we are very different people I love Kate I want nothing than amazing things to happen for her and I'll always be there for Kate and I wish nothing but happiness for her But we are different people in that respect in a lot of things. Yeah. Like, I like to think, or I like to thought that when we were doing the tour, I actually noticed the more the tour got on, Kate repeating things I'd been saying, I actually sat back quite proud.

38:49I was looking at you laughing because you know I'm listening to everything that I'd said. You know, when I'm getting motivational and I'm talking about myself, Kate then starts repeating as the tour is going, I was like, she's listening, it's great, because that was her whole point. I want people to see the Kate that I knew, and all this, you know, I know he's going short to it. I said, I'm telling you now she will. If I'm there, Kate will do it, and she did. You're right, you're right. And she did, and I knew it, and we had a great time. We had so many last and four, and I really got to know Kate on the tour.

39:20Even though we've known, it's almost been more of a celebrity friendship. You know, we've not seen each other for years and years and years, like a decade or something. Oh, wow. So it's not like we've been besties in that respect, but I know I could trust Kate with something and she'd never... And vice versa. Might not always agree with what she does. She might always agree with what I do. I see the similarities. I mean, you just painted them. Yeah. And that's been very mirrored. So there's no one who will ever understand what that's been like apart from her and me. Yes. Does that make sense? It does.

39:59It does. In this industry. Yes, it does. It does. And when I spoke with Katie, it was one of those where I couldn't believe. It was similar to my conversation with you. Like I couldn't believe what she had gone through. And to be able to recite it, to say it. She did it every night on stage. to the point that I saw it was getting too much that I took certain parts of it out. I actually, I'm quite, when I'm in boss mode, I'm in boss mode. When I'm in business mode, when I'm like, look, and the accent left something and I said, it's like, that's got to go because Kate's losing it on stage and I don't want people to think that she's lost the plot.

40:43Not that she had at all. It's just repetitiveness. I've talked about the same thing a lot. Can do something to people differently. and so for me it was she's very detached she knows that herself but me and my family we adore Kate like when she's at mine at Christmas with Harvay like my Kate I mean Paolo my kids are always great 20 years of friendship there alright but I'm with you I'm more than 20 years I met Kate when I was 19 I'm 45 aha yeah so it was it was before the jungle 18 or 19 yeah I won't tell you what she first said to me. Nah. Me and Kate have always said, I'll never repeat that. I'll tell you off camera.

41:27But yeah. She was always just trying shock factor Kate. Oh, really? And I was like, I think she was like, if with her boobs, this is not what she, that I won't tell you. There was me, Dane Bowers, Brian McFadden, and Bradley, Rust Club 7, and Natasha. Oh, wow. Okay. I think it was in Twice as Nice. She's like, or something like that. Because Kate was very intimidating. She was like the top-class model of... Everyone knew who George was. She was Jordan. She was Jordan there. I didn't even know her name was Kate at this point. And I said, go on then, Brian, feel him. So he must have thought I was the greatest girlfriend in the world.

42:05And he felt it. And I said, I feel something that's fucking real. So I was never intimidated by someone. Bear in mind how I grew up. Do you know what I mean? Me and Kate's adult lives are very similar. Our childhood's completely different. Do you know what I mean? So, I think she respected that, because I was not intimidated by anybody. I don't give a shit who you was. Those pretty bulls. Mine were real at the time, you know. I was tripping over my nipples as I get them done, people. Health and safety. Do you know what I mean? I was outside, we got workmen barring hard at. So, yeah. So, I think that we'd bump into each row over the years, and just, yeah, you're right.

42:46And then it was the jungle, really, that brought us together. They'll pull you together. And then you do things and you do the photo. And then the papers, magazines, what you do, shoot. And then you don't really talk to each other. Then we had a falling out. And then I didn't speak to them for years and years and years. Can I ask you about this AI thing I've seen you do? Me? Yeah. Oh, the O-chan. The O-chan, yeah. Yeah. And Katie, OK. Yeah, ask away. Subscribe, people. Paul, we spoke about this. darling I knew you were going to try and get it in here look can you get that discount code for Bob please just sign him up for free give it to me for free this is why I bring this up because I saw Katie I saw her come out with her what do you call it like your AI twin so she came out with her AI twin I see you come out with your AI twin It was at the same time, but because I do OnlyFans, and I do my OnlyFans, me personally, nobody else runs it.

43:55It's me. It's so full on. That's why I'm at home doing that. So this O-chart is similar, but it's me. But you can ask and make it do anything you want, but it actually isn't me, and I still make money from it. Okay, so this, to me, is so fascinating. I don't really know much about it, to be honest with you. I just got told it was, it's just another stream of revenue for me. But it's an AI twin that's trained. So it looks like you. It's kind of you. Yeah. It sounds like you. I wish it did look like that. But it's modeled after you. It looks very similar to you. Yeah, so you have to do your voice.

44:35And then I just send them a few pictures. Right. And then it turns it into... I mean, if you don't keep up with it, Paul, you're going to get left behind. Right. But can we have a serious AI chat around? Yeah. Okay, you ready for this? I'm real. I'm Carrie. So you're Carrie. Right now. You're Carrie. Yeah. So this is where I'm going. So I'm fascinated by parasocial relationships, these one-sided, emotionally bonded relationships. So with your AI twin, someone can basically have a conversation with your twin. I just thought something that's really scared me actually I've not really thought about this before they can get like proper involved with this person this is where I'm going this is where I'm going rerun those cameras you'll see that thought just hit my head because I get really nervous about this with OnlyFans this is exactly where I'm going they're going to think they're in a real relationship because they can chat with you at any time 2am your twin chats back your twin will send them some images.

45:45What will they send me, Paul? Is that what you do when you go into a bedroom? You'll face yourself. Just leave. Leave. Alright, the interview's done. The interview is done. I do not want to talk to you anymore. I do not want to talk to you anymore. I do not like this. I want Carrie gone. Is that your bit?

46:17I've seen it all now. All right. Seriously. Oh, my God. Let's get serious. Let's get serious. Please, I beg. Keep that in. Because I've got to watch that part. You sense that? This is all right. Mental image out. Gone. Okay. Remember, this is serious conversation. You're right. about parasocial relationships here. Yeah. Okay? So, your AI twin is sending images, having conversations, leaving voice notes. I know. Now you said that. The person thinks, oh wow, I have a relationship with Carrie. Yeah, how do you feel about that? You know what, up until that moment, I kind of saw where it was going and I thought, I've not really thought about it like that.

47:10because what does scare me about OnlyFans as well, not just OnlyFans, I've had stalkers, I've had DMs, you know, it doesn't have to be all night, it doesn't have to just, I get this on a daily basis sometimes, I get like love poems and before I ever did OnlyFans, forget about that, I had the police stood up at my house. The guy who was a rapist who won the lottery in jail I had a shrine to me and was gonna bind me when he got out. Harry was just like, oh, I've got a sock, I'm really famous. You know, you're not actually really realising, you know, one guy had his hallway with all the news clippings all up his hall, all up the stairs.

47:51Of you. This is nothing to do with the only fans or just me because I was scary, you know. I don't think it helps, it adds to it, but I'm also not gonna stop doing what I do because of minority of something, otherwise none of us would do anything.

48:11But that's always happened, whether it's AI, whether it's me being an atomic king, whether it's me being a global model, whether it's me being a reality star. Someone will always have a fascination or an attachment. I have a few surprises for you. Oh, fuck it up, Paul. Don't you make me scared. No, this is a good surprise. Yeah, go on. Okay. Don't look like that.

48:38I would love to do that.

48:43I thought that would be fucking brilliant. I would love to do that. You shouldn't do that. No, it's not really. I cannot do that to you, Carrie, even though I would like to. Go on. Ooh. Carrie. You know I'm dyslexic and I can't fucking read. Is it a colouring book? Now, I tell you what, I would be more than happy to read this as well. Do you want to read it? Oh, yeah, I can read it to you. And I want you to guess who it is written from. Okay. It's not a refrain, Renata, is it?

49:23Okay. All right, you ready? Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about everything you've been through in everything you've done, and I just needed to put it into words. You are and always will be my hero, the strongest, most resilient person I've ever met. You face so much in your life, more than most people would ever really know, but somehow you've come out of it with strength, and I honestly can't even begin to measure how strong you are. You didn't just survive, but you carried on and kept going. You fought back against everything life threw at you and you never gave up and you provided us all with a better life.

50:12That's something I admire more than I probably say out loud to you, Mom. I do. When you believe in something, You give it your whole heart, and that's something I've learned from you without even realizing it. Everything I am today is because of you. Your love, your sacrifices, and your passion, they've shaped me into the person I'm still becoming, and I'm so grateful for that every single day. I hope to grow up to be just half the woman you are and mother you are. That really got me. That's powerful. And more than anything, I just want you to be happy, truly, deeply happy. You deserve that more than anyone.

51:02So seeing you find that happiness now, especially with Paolo, means everything to me. You have a glow about you since meeting Paolo, and I can really see that you have met your soulmate, the person you will be with forever. and I hope that you know how loved you are by me and my four built-in best friends. I love you more than I could ever put into writing. Love you to the moon and back. Heidi. Heidi. Yes. It could have been any of them. Heidi. Heidi. I have this that I just want to...

51:51So that is, that's you and Heidi. You know, I've had the privilege. That's it for me. That's all I need is their approval. That's it. No one else's. That's all I crave more than anything is my kids to be proud of me.

52:14And I just hope I've tried to guide them in the right way. And I haven't been perfect. Far from it. I'll still get it wrong.

52:25She's a little cow. But... I don't want to eat. She's... I've had the privilege of meeting Heidi, right, on a few occasions. and she's gonna love the fact she's trumped her sisters and brothers that's what she does oh really yeah she does it on purpose no no that's so beautiful yeah and and you know you know what's interesting from every time i've i've met heidi i could see that it's it's such an interesting relationship that she has with you she looks up to you but yet you're friends at the same time yeah like she still walks where in front of me heidi I'm quite I'm different with my son I'm different with all of them I was a different woman a different person with all my children I was I was a baby when I had Molly you know and then I was a different person when I had Heidi and Max then I was older when I had DJ so even though everyone all says like there's five of us or they say two kids they're all brought up in the same house one went that way one went that way no you was never the same parents both of your children you're not because you go through a different stage of your life that changes you as a person.

53:40Like how I treat DJs completely different to how I've treated the others. I'm not softer on DJ, whether that's because her dad died. I've modelled colder, but I have been strict with my children. No bullshit, no moaning, no whinging. And the fact that that's what I've got back says it all. You know, they're the best five parts of me, the best versions of me and I want them to just be their best individual selves that they could ever be that's all I want that's all I want that's my legacy right there yes my kids that's my mark on this world not me sat here telling a story not me telling my truth they're my legacy that's my mark on this world and they they seem like they adore Paolo they I think they might love him more than me I'm not going to lie They do.

54:34They absolutely adore him. He's like an older brother to him. I had to. My dear, I love you. That was beautiful. That was so precious. That was beautiful. And I think this is the perfect time to bring Paolo in. Have you ever noticed how many of your friends are sitting on great business ideas? It's usually nothing to do with thinking their idea isn't good enough and everything to do with the execution side feeling a bit too technical. But with our show sponsor, Shopify, so much of the technical side is taken care of for you. It enables you to set up your own online store without a developer. You just pick a store template, customize it to your own branding, upload some product photos, set your prices, and you're live.

55:23Shopify looks after your payments, inventory, orders, returns. It even helps with calculating shipping rates. And if you also want help selling your products, Shopify's built-in tools write product descriptions, create email campaigns, and schedule social posts for you too. It makes the technical part of running a business so much easier. So give it a try yourself and sign up for your one pound per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk slash need to talk. Look at this. He's here for the sleepover. Yeah, Kerry did say that this would be a very, very long, long show. So I thought I'd come dressed for the occasion.

56:08Oh, my gosh. And we're all kind of matching. We're all matching. I can borrow the eye mask as well. That's my line is. You got the eye mask? Yeah, you know, I see already this because Carrie what she was just talking about how her safe Space is your chest. I'm quite childlike with Paula

56:35Especially around the arms. Yeah, it's a bit tight. This is a bit tight Thank you. Thank you for coming, but I will also say you were here the last time that Kerry was here, you were just off camera. Yeah. He came halfway through, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a long one, that one, it was a long one. What are you telling me? I mean, you know, when we spoke in the morning, you said, oh, you know, we'll be probably done by 1 p.m. That was at 9 in the morning. You was. I was nervous. And I sat in the hotel working. I was like, listen, I'll be awake here. I'll work for you to come back. So I rang her at like 1 saying, you know, message, how are you getting on?

57:11And she rung me and said, babe, I think you should come here. Oh, really? We're only a third of the way through. I said, don't sit in that hotel on your own. Because you had to check out the room, you see. Yes. So I was like, oh. And I went, can someone go get a pile up from the hotel? Because I've got a funny feeling I'm going to be here for a while. Look at that. And he came right over, waited for you. Yeah. It was heavy for you, that one, it babes. Yeah. And that journey home, it's amazing the contrast of person from what you guys had on the show. And obviously it was very deep and there was a lot of, Kerry gave a lot, but the minute she got in the car, it was like, phoom.

57:49Interesting. And, you know, I explained a few times I understood how she was feeling in that moment, having to express and talk about trauma. And all I said was, you know, you don't have to talk. Just, you know, we'll go for a little bit of food if you feel up to it. And within 30 minutes after the food, We had a little laugh and a joke, didn't we? And then, you know, we're pissing ourselves in the room. We're bedding. Yeah. Yeah, so it was... He's very good. Very good. Knowing what I need without me having to ask. Yeah. All right, so this is a relationship that I think so many people are fascinated by.

58:29First, because you met on a dating show. It's fucking mad, isn't it? Which is mad. And you know what's wild too is that most people who meet on dating shows don't stay together. Right. So you two meet. And I think what the audience saw was this real rawness. And we saw two people fall in love. Yeah, 100%. Look at your face. Yeah, it was really nice.

58:59You don't realize the impact and how invested people get. because when you're in the moment, you know, it's like if you just focused on where you're going and what you're doing, you're living in the moment. You know, you're living with what's going on, but everybody else is experiencing that as well. So they're all bought into this, you know, this story. Yes. This love story. You know, it sounds really weird. Like when we watched it back, we were watching it like this. We were like, oh, my God. I can't watch. Oh, my God. Because I was so vulnerable with my feelings. I've never been like that, especially when it comes to love on TV with somebody I met.

59:37And I really, really, I can't explain this energy that we have. I'm blown away by it. Yeah, I think we all are. And how quickly it happened. I think that now I know each of you individually, right? And I understand how well matched you are. But I think the quickness of how close you became, that was what surprised me. Yeah, I mean, it was... It's not felt really quick though, that's the thing. It felt really like organic. It wasn't like, right, we need to achieve this now or we need to get there now. Everything was like, it was like water. It was like a stream going down, right? It was like everything that has happened along the journey has just felt right in the moment to do.

1:00:19How do you feel the reception from the media has been to your relationship with Kerry? to be honest i think it's been um it's been quite positive i think like kerry always talks about is you know kerry has evolved so much over the last few years from where she was to where she is now now i didn't know kerry before but i know kerry's so i know kerry is i know all her values and all the characteristics of Kerry have always been there. But like anybody who goes through trauma, you project it sometimes in ways that aren't always correct. And with Kerry being in the public eye, that sells stories. So it was easy to create a narrative of Kerry as this car crash or whatever.

1:01:08I was a little bit. No, you were, but you own that as well. But I think where Kerry is now and the work she's done on herself, The media really love Carrie because they don't have to paint her in a negative light anymore. They can talk positively about her and it's well received. It's like the nation get behind it. They've seen how happy Carrie is and how much she's worked on herself. And I think that's equally as impactful as a negative story about a person. So us coming together and the nation seeing how organic and natural it's been has obviously increased that. I find it really weird when we talk about the nation and shit like that because for me it's not been like that at all.

1:01:52For me it's just been me and him and the kids. Yeah, exactly that. It's just been me and the kids. Slaves go dating feels like a lifetime ago. But what about the articles? And I will say this. I feel like surprisingly there's been overwhelmingly positive response to the two of you. I thought, especially when you left, I remember pulling you aside at the finale. Yeah, yeah. I was like, look, man, they're going to come after you. They're going to talk about the age difference. They're going to do all this. Now, there have been a few of those articles, but I think overwhelmingly, though, it's been supportive.

1:02:24I've never had the public so invested in somebody I'm with. Ever. Yeah. Never. Yeah. And for me, it's not, it's so lovely and beautiful, but when I hear those words from my Heidi, you know how much my children love Paolo and seeing what? It's almost like him and his children lit a spark. Yes. Fire. Yes. And it not only enlightened me, it enlightened my kids. Yes. And it kind of brought us all back together because I kind of got stuck in a rut, Paul. You know, from where I was with my ex to, you know, I was always away. And Paul was so family orientated. Like, you all sit around the table. Like, it's like Christmas day every day.

1:03:09I tried to push for that, especially one day a week, if we're both at home. Is that hard to keep that up? We did it because we were going to have a barbecue on Sunday because the weather was nice, right? English weather, barbecue, 12 degrees, Sunday Friday. Paul's got his uptakes. Paul's in his Canada goose jacket, hot water bottle, freezing. See, now I see. You're rubbing off on us. He's doing us now, Paul. that's this game over never coming back but i think that's very important to create that family unit because as you know kids now social media they're becoming a lot more detached from the communication skills that we i'm very lucky i was probably the last generation of communication no but seriously like i think we you know we you know we played out we we had the best of both you know technology starts to come along whereas now from you know eight nine ten eleven they've all got you know phones or ipads or whatever and i think we're so detached from communicating and it's quite scary because that's only going to get worse yes so for me being from an italian background you know for me a sunday was always about going to my grandma and granddad's you know pasta on the table nice food and we'd sit there and we won't be able to leave until we'd eaten at least two bowlfuls.

1:04:32Look at that. And that stuck with me. So for me implementing that, or trying to implement that, is key. And on that note, I have another surprise. He's full of surprises today, he's full. All right, ready for this?

1:04:49This is one of my favorites. Bam. Oh, it's my birthday. Oh, that was your birthday. OK, so in this, though. That was my 21st.

1:05:02Describe for everyone just listening via audio, what is happening in this photo and what does it mean to you? So, I don't know if we can show any of the cameras or if any of the cameras have picked this up. Unfortunately, I started the tour that day on my birthday. Oh, you did? So we couldn't really celebrate or do anything because the first night of the tour was the 6th of September. Wow. Palo was the 18th of September. So that was my last day at home and it was also my birthday. so we organized to go for birthday breakfast so that's when I say I don't socialize that's my social life that's it it's Max's girlfriend there Heidi Milani Nola I DJ Molly and Lily was on FaceTime it's a beautiful picture I love that that was one of the pictures we've got so many of these yeah but obviously that was probably one of the first images where we were together as a family after the show it was one of the probably the first image that we had as a full blended family having lunch together.

1:06:03And the outreach on that one was huge. I remember that one specifically. Really? Yeah. Because, Pella, so you had two children prior to Kerry. Kerry, you had five. So coming together... I don't know. I've got Googlits all the time. So coming together, we could create Sutton FC. Oh, my God! What about that? Yeah. It's not a long play, though. Full of football. I like that. I like that. You're backing my good graces. I like that. I like that. But yeah, but it's it's you have seven children between the two of you Christmas is great wasn't it? Oh, it was chaos. Seven kids. We had them all. How do you manage a blended family at that size?

1:06:44Well, I think people forget like Molly and Lily have moved out, you know, Heidi's 19. Max is always with his girlfriend. They've been together as long as we have now. Max has the annex. So he's got his own local apartment. Max, he's set up brilliant up there. His girlfriend's got it. He's so good to her and he's got a vanity desk and yeah. So they've got that side, haven't they? So I'm actually on my own quite a lot. How do you manage the age difference or does that not come up at all? No. I think that was just one of Kerry's things to have a reason not to push forward. I really do believe that.

1:07:22I think that was just another one of the barriers at the time like I bring it up Paul no I'm Italian Paul he's a star student I tell you so she you think she was just using age as an excuse I do I do believe I do I do believe so I do I do think so because you know I bring the joke like I did the post the other day about her in 2000s, me in 2000s. Quite different. She called me a wanker. Dick.

1:07:59Yeah, and I think you don't necessarily see the age gap. I think, I don't know. I don't see it. I don't know. I think I needed, I needed, I needed Kerry in my life. I needed Kerry. I needed the maturity and somebody, again, somebody who's gone through what they've gone through because of my journey. I remember you falling asleep in my arms and me spooning him. She's giving me so much. She's like, I never go sleep first. I literally, he fell asleep in my arms and I held him. Stroking my head. Look at that. Like a baby. I was breastfeeding him the other time. I loved it. I was enjoying it. You were.

1:08:36I'm sure you were. I'm sure you were. What I'm curious about is... Can I go watch on the monitors? No, no, no, no. This is good for you to be here, to react. I'm just trying not to get involved. In real time. It's very difficult. Is that there are, I would presume, a significant number of people who believe they have this kind of parasocial relationship with Carrie. Like through, maybe if they subscribe through OnlyFans, they feel like they have an emotional bond. Like Paul does. Yeah. Pretty much, yeah. But Paul's on there, innit? Both of you are wild. Right? How do you manage that, knowing that there are people who believe they have this relationship with Kerry but don't?

1:09:22To be honest, I just have to make sure that I support and offer Kerry the level of protection that I can. Because obviously it's a crazy world and there's a lot of crazy people out there. and unfortunately who carries with regards of OnlyFans or not, there is going to be people who send wild messages and have this fantasy that they are connected to Kerry in some way so it's quite challenging at times it's quite like, you know, seeing people say what they say to Kerry in messages it can be quite a bit, not triggering but that's my partner that I want to make sure he's protected and safe. But she's a big woman, man.

1:10:08She'll batter me if I needed to. She could knock anyone out, honestly. She pretends. Look at the look in her eyes, Paul. Honestly, you can see the look. Yeah, I know. I love it. She is tough. Yeah, she's resilient. She's tough. And, you know, all I can do is support her the best I can. Have you ever been in a situation where maybe you're out in public and someone got a little too close to Carrie and you had to give him a there was one our second date and that guy started shouting rename to his last go date yeah on celebs go date yeah we was outside on our actual second date wasn't it and this guy was like flesh and bun and he was shouting like a bit derogatory stuff towards Kerry and I just obviously didn't really know Kerry that well at that point but I just said look you know just stand in the doorway and you know I'll stand here and if you know if you want me to say something to him I will but she's like no you don't need to the only other time there's been something like that was me and kerry was out on a date in london um and obviously kerry's beautiful like she's pretty you know she gets attention of people she does yeah so like when when she's dolled up she looks amazing as well you know what i mean like when she's out that's why you look amazing anyway but what but you even say this do you remember this morning what you said to me this morning i get my words mixed up in the morning paul you know we just woke up and you're woman's in your face and morning babe we need to go to the shops today we need to go buy presents for everyone and we should buy that house in marbella you know we should do you know what i mean so like i'm like this just woke up but anyway so there was only one time where these guys were shouting something at the top of the stairs they were upstairs in this club where the toilet wants to go upstairs and i could hear you can hear kerry a milo if you Where was this?

1:11:50It was in the club for Heidi's birthday. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was sat downstairs around the corner. I remember Toby was in love with me. I could hear some commotion and I could hear Kerry on the stage. I made it loud so I never could hear me. And then when she came down, I just said, you know, are you all right? Is everything all right? It's like, oh, yeah, just some boisterous guys upstairs. Nothing else of it. Then it got busier and these lads must have come downstairs. And prior to us leaving, we'd always just had a couple of drinks celebrating Heidi's birthday. She's been to watch Magic Kingdom.

1:12:21Kerry's just polite to everyone. Kerry's just polite. As we were walking, they were quite rough-looking lads. There were a couple of them. Kerry had gone up to me and said, oh, this is my partner. And I shook this guy's hand firm, and he didn't like it because he was obviously potentially jealous. And he's like, why are you shaking my hand like that? Trying to start something. And I just said, shake everyone's hand firm. Don't think they've been thrown in a taxi so quick. It's respect and confidence. And then he said to his mate, he says, oh, shake his hand like that. So I did exactly the same.

1:12:51And then the next thing, the one of the lads was on the phone and within five minutes, 20 or 30 lads had run through the door to these boys. Oh, my goodness. Kerry hadn't noticed. She was oblivious. So I was in a bit of a panic then because, you know, I'm on my own, the situation. And there'd been a couple of fights in this place already. Yeah. That night. Oh, my goodness. So I just saw... This is the fight this person because we don't go out like that. No, we don't go out. That's the thing. So I just, I was like, I pushed Kerry. I said, get in the taxi now, please. So she got in the taxi and I was panicky.

1:13:19I was a bit cross because I was like, we've created a situation that didn't mean to happen. Yeah, I was like, what are you playing at? And I didn't mean it out of nastiness. I was just, I could see that. Two minutes later, I could have been in a very sticky situation on my own. You know, and I don't need that. Do you know what I mean? I don't need that. And this is one of the reasons why I isolate. But you know, as well equally, if somebody is coming to me with a bit of disrespect, I won't say or project myself, but I'll hold myself well. Do you know what I mean? I'm not going to be bullied. Right.

1:13:52All right, so on this note, I have another surprise for you. I'm fucking out. What is that Mary Poppins looking sofa? It is. This is. Now, you could say as much or as little as you want, but as a good interviewer, I have to present this. I know what this is. I know what this is. There's going to be four of us. I knew it.

1:14:13Bare AIs. We wasn't actually there. the story is made so you have AI now I met Elon last week I have no comment I am not giving this any oxygen there you go we love Kate I really love Kate I think she's amazing that's all I have to say I'm not giving it any oxygen I don't agree with all the choices she makes do you know what Kate one on one as a person amazing I've met her enough times to make a judgement of her I think she's an incredible person I really do I think she wants to be loved. I think she deserves to be loved. I really genuinely, sincerely mean that. And I think she's an amazing person.

1:14:51And Kerry speaks nothing but good about Kate. She's like twins. You know what? That's all that's needed. Because it's not my story to tell, Paul. Yeah. All right. So then let's move on. Yeah. Are you two moving to Spain? The plan's there. Yeah, the plan's there. The plan potentially is there. Like moving, moving, or really? I wanted to move there. I wanted to move out of the UK. No, I did. I did. Listen, I found Gumbas Pilpil first. No, Gumbas Pilpil's mine. Ask Danielle! Danielle will tell you, right? So this is the thing. We are like two peas in a pod. It's scary. I mean, I can see this. This is the weirdest, weirdest thing ever.

1:15:35This invisible line theory. Invisible string. String theory is so crazy. You could not make this up. So, June before we started filming, so let's go dating, I was supposed to be moving to Spain. I looked at an apartment in Estepona. Didn't end up doing it. Went for a breakup. Blah, blah, blah. All that shite. Previous years to that, I've been going to Estepona and renting a penthouse, checking the children, and then renting a normal house in this really beautiful area. There's no tourists or anything, right? It's where I wanted to move with the kids. Okay. Turns out the building that I'm writing this apartment, Palo Ong's apartment in it, and he's like going a bit like...

1:16:27So we've got an apartment block. There's an apartment block and we own an apartment there. And they're two or three blocks down in the same apartment. I stayed there with my children and in the penthouse. and then we went there to do the plant medicines going oh this is so weird how have we never met and then we're walking to get a coffee because like Pell thinks this is a secret place that no one's ever seen before I know it's my secret place I know like the back of my hand he's gone there's a restaurant but you know where I've been I went the one with a picture and I went you know it's stealing my thunder you know what I mean it's just so crazy and then we're walking back from getting a coffee he goes Kerry I'm like yeah he said you don't remember me do you I went no he said I was your lawyer I've had many and then I went Will you be married to Mark Croft?

1:17:12We started chatting away and that. He said, oh, we've got an apartment just over there. He told us what built, not what built it is. It was the one underneath mine. It's the one underneath him. And they've owned it for the same length of time he has. Time they had. I mean, there's six points of separation. It's just... Yeah, it's wild. There's too many in syncs of our... I truly believe our souls are meant to be. I really truly... Truly, truly. I truly believe. So then on this note, Pella, if I can ask you this. Yeah, of course. Because this recurring theme in at least what Carrie continues to say is she can't believe that you want to.

1:17:50Why would you want to be with her? Like I see this recurring theme. So I would imagine part of what you're thinking, Carrie, is why would you want to marry me? Because Carrie is a because Carrie as a human being gives me everything that I've ever needed in a human being. All the things that I've missed out on. she's given me everything in one go as well as a headache let me just put that in there but she does kerry gives me everything that i need and that's why what we've got is so beautiful i think without us realizing we understood each other more and this happens you know subconsciously you can be have a positive trauma bond with someone or a negative trauma bond yes i've experienced a lot of negative trauma bonds in my life the only positive one i've ever experienced is with Kerry where everything is not black and white it's in colour like everything that we experience together is in colour and that's the only way that I can explain it to somebody is that she makes the picture colourful in more ways than one but yeah it is but you know if I could explain it it turns a picture from black and white to colour yes and that's all I've ever wanted from a person is the support understanding love you know and she gives me all of that in abundance have you ever felt this level of love in your life romantically no no no and i don't want to say that disrespectfully you know i've got two beautiful children from from my ex-partner you know we're getting on amazing but i don't think i've ever had or experienced what kerry gives me in a loving relationship okay and i'm very appreciative and grateful for that i am really you know even like the children like her children it's you know i'm not trying to be a father figure to them i'm just treating them as i would my own children but in a more grown-up way which i've never done it's a learning curve right but you know even when taking max out driving buying him his first suit you know i bought him it was a fucking expensive suit but you know it deserved his first suit her kids have been for a lot and she's done an incredible job absolutely phenomenal she has on her own incredible job and i'm just glad you know that i'm able to add value to her and add a you know a different perspective to the children as well and show them a love from somebody who's not their mother you know i'm not doing it to achieve anything i'm just doing it because that's part of who i am right the identity right the identity absolutely i love it I've seen Max taking him out for his drive.

1:20:27We took him out in his car the other day for the first time. And it was a really heartfelt moment seeing how happy he was in the car. The kids don't come to the bedroom and see me. They do, they do. No, they don't. Get up, boy. Get up, boy. It's nice. And it's been challenging to come in. I felt very intimidated coming in because I had to build a relationship. And they had a great relationship with Ryan. Fair play. They had an amazing relationship with Ryan. And I'm not trying to compete with that. It was hard. It was hard coming to that. I'm like, fucking hell. Like, this is a lot. Yeah. I think the challenge that you had was, it was like this long list of, okay, you're marrying into, you know.

1:21:08You know we're not married, right? You are, you are, you are, what do we say? You're committed dating. Well, actually, what would you call life partners? Life partners. If you're not a girlfriend, it makes you want to tell them. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, what are you? No, I say my partner. Partner? Yeah, I feel about 12 when he calls me with skills. Oh, I do, honestly. So you're life partners? 100%. That's where it is, isn't it? Your brash. Do you believe you two will get married? 100%. 100 %? Because you've been asked the question of who's going to... I mean... Has he been asked? Has he been asked?

1:21:42I don't know. Has he been asked? I thought you asked him the question of... I don't know. I don't know. I'd marry Pal and I hope you would just scare me. Okay. It does scare me. So he says 100%. You said that. It does scare me. I just, I'm scared. But you know, I want to make it clear that, I mean, there's no rush here, right? You know, these comments from people saying, if she was really the one, why have you not proposed yet? Because I'll do it when I feel, well, because I've got until you're 50, right? I'm getting old. I'm not walking down that bastard aisle with a Zimmer frame. I've got 49 and a half, right?

1:22:15No, I'm not waiting that long, baby. Don't want some skin in a dress. But all seriousness, everything else has happened so naturally. I feel bad at Carlo because everyone keeps asking these questions. Don't feel bad, I can handle it. I know, but it's kind of ruining it a little bit. It's like, let us do it in our time whenever you want to do it. It's all outside noise. We've discussed what we want to do. We've discussed the plan. In fact, you're involved in it. Yeah. We want you. Now, this is true. We want you to go get self-certified and we want you to marry us.

1:22:52It's not April Fool's. It's not April Fool's. I'm not a fucking certificate now. I'm not getting married in my jargon. And for now, I've got another surprise. Actually, I have a surprise. We can get married right now. I'm certified. Can we do this right now? Would you like to be married right now? You're lying. Would you like to be married right now? No, you're lying. Would you like to be married right now? Let's do it. No, no, about the kids. Not about the children. You know, I respect that. Absolutely. Yeah, no. My kids just killed me. Yeah, in a heartbeat. With my children there, my son will walk me down.

1:23:26I think it would be brilliant. I think it would mean so much. I think it's... I was like, I'd just pass to Mario's. Yeah, I'd say I'm going to wait for the call and I will be there. My Balenciaga. With some nice fisty trousers. Some socks. Yeah, nice suit. Yes, yes, yes. I love it. I love it. And to your point, though, is on your own time. This is no one else's clock but yours. My heart raced. Like a deer in headlights. They're all going to come out. I was like, if my kids and your kids are here in a heartbeat, but not about my children, I'll never do that to them. They'd kill me. Look at that.

1:24:08All right. So now talking about children, do you two believe that you will have more children? We spoke about this recently. We did the OK shoot. And I said to Kerry, so Kerry had a traumatic birth with DJ. Left her quite poorly. DJ died. Yeah, very life-threatening. DJ was on life support for four days. He had had his sense erupted and I nearly died. It was already traumatised me. And there's a magic... She walked out.

1:24:41I never know. How to react to Carrie? Like, should I be laughing at this? Is it a joke? Is it real? So DJ stopped breathing when she was born. Soon she came out, I thought something's not right with this baby. She was born with six fingers on each hand, which is from Ancestry's tribe, from George's tribe from Nigeria. Oh, wow, okay. I don't know. And she just stopped breathing. Yeah. And the ablical CPR on her, on her heart. like oh it's horrendous and my sense erupted so i nearly died and then she nearly died and they were telling me to give the baby name she's not going to make it it was horrendous but the doctor said to me it was it was a one-off it was there was nothing it's just one of those things um so yeah i would i would have a child with kerry tomorrow i would definitely but as it's got to be circumstantial to the fact that kerry would be fit and healthy because it would It would be very selfish of me to want that with Kerry when she's got five beautiful, amazing children who love and need Kerry to be fit and healthy.

1:25:50And I didn't realise, and I didn't want any more kids. So the idea is amazing, the practicality has to be addressed and this quite looked into. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you, she, so, yeah. So Kerry was unknowingly pregnant at the finale of Celebs Go Day. Seriously, yeah, yeah. I found out in the morning. I found out in the morning. I could smell it on her. Like, weird. I said, you're pregnant. I could smell it on her. On the finale. On the finale of Celebs Go Day. It was weird. I was pregnant, found out in the morning. I was like, you're pregnant. And she was like, no, I'm not. She did a thing. And we kept getting these hormonal spots.

1:26:29And we, I'm shaking. We did a test in the night and he said no. I said, I'll do it early in the morning. So we had an apartment at the hotel. I get up early, so I thought, I'll go do my meditation. He won't wake him up. I peed on the stick. This is an exclusive. No one have not gone public with this. Not told anybody this, apart from Anna. Don't get jealous.

1:26:53And nothing came up, so I went and did my meditation. I thought, I'm just going to pop this spot. I went back and I'm like, no, no, no, no way. I ran and woke him up. Seven years I never felt pregnant. Yeah. She was panicking then because she was like at the finale, she's like, everyone's going to know, everyone's going to know. Everyone's going to know. So, like, obviously then we went through it and said, like, you know. And then the thought of having an abortion killed me. Because it wasn't intentional, by the way. But it felt like it was made from love. Yeah. Yes. I thought I couldn't have kids because seven years I never got pregnant.

1:27:27I'm pregnant, not once, not once. Not once in seven years I get pregnant by Ryan, not once, nothing. And so I thought, oh, I'm all right. I'm at that age. Yeah. Bam, and unfortunately I miscarried. Yeah. And then we tried. Okay, then you tried again. And we tried, and eventually told the girls and the kids, not Paul's youngest ones, obviously. But at that point then, I could sense the kids felt a bit uncomfortable about it. They were a bit nervous. But they eventually came around with it as well. They did to an extent, but I also acknowledged their feelings and what they were saying. And I didn't realise how much I'd miscarried again, only at four weeks.

1:28:13Yeah. And I didn't realise how much I wanted it then. Yeah. And that was just before Christmas. Yeah. So then, yeah, it's just what it's like. It's something now that... So I never started to get pregnant. I never, ever thought... If it happens, it happens. We went and got tested. I've got follicles. You know, there's lots of... You tried to know, didn't you? I just wanted to know. Just, you know, and if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. So time is right, time is right. Okay. Salah, I'm very sorry to hear... It's one of those things. I mean, it's never happened to me before.

1:28:52You know, to also, to see what you two were going through in that moment. Now, when I reflect back, there was a lot more obviously happening. Everyone's celebrating what's happening, but you are. I was pregnant. Do you know what the crazy thing is, Paul? This is a great point as well. You don't, on a day-to-day basis, you never know what's going on in someone's life. So you should never judge anybody. And this is the thing, like, some people have so much going on. You know, you see them pictures of like a bird's eye view of loads of people walking in one place and each one's got something going through their head and their mind.

1:29:24You just don't know what's going on in someone's reality in that moment. And we had to be so careful because we have mics on as well. It's important to just, you know, treat everybody that you meet with the same level of respect and just be kind. You know what I mean? In a world that's not very, is it? We're in a world that's not very kind right now. No, it's not. But the beautiful thing is I see that there's a higher level of kindness towards Carrie. There's a higher level of kindness now that's probably shepherded to you as a result of that. And that to me is, and I love that. Like, I really, really love that.

1:29:59I love that for both of you because I've interviewed many people who have had the press literally destroy them to the point where they still relive the trauma and it impacts how they show up and they haven't been able to grow through it. And to my point earlier with you, Carrie, is that you've been able to grow through the trauma. Is that in that? Yeah. Oh, no, you need a shit. No, I don't need a shit. I actually don't need a shit.

1:30:29I'm so sorry. No, no. I tell you what, it's okay for me. Carrie is the one who has an issue. But he's loud. My belly never makes, never makes. He's like, he wants to get involved. Yeah, he's like, hey. I want your thoughts, Lord. It's not growing in there. What do you think about marriage? Yeah. But, but, but yeah, just, I think, I think it is, it is, it is beautiful to see this. Can I end then with the final question? But Carrie's already received this question. So she is now disqualified from being able to answer this question. This is only Paolo's question. we're going to see if she can sit and not say a word paula yes you've had some incredible conversations in your life when you think about the most memorable who was it with and what did you learn oh there's a there's a there's a few in there there's a few in there um I think actually one of the most impactful conversations I actually had was in a beef with Kerry where we was really opening up and talking about the past and one of my things was I really struggled with emotion so I pushed it stuffed it in and I've always done that it's something that I've always stuffed it and stuffed it and stuffed it because not because I didn't want to show it because I didn't know how to or I didn't have the tools to be able to do it.

1:32:01Even though I'd done all the therapy and stuff, there was one conversation that we had, and I'd asked myself a rhetorical question, and it was the first time in probably a long time that I burst into tears inconsolably, actually. And it wasn't necessarily something that had been said to me, but it was because we'd had a conversation and I asked myself a certain question. It made me think and realize that maybe the answers I was looking for weren't from somebody else. Maybe it was from inside of me and what I was doing with, you know, creating with my children, you know, and the person I was becoming.

1:32:38So it wasn't necessarily something that someone had said. it was a situation that I'd had with somebody that I really trust and confide in that allowed me to ask myself that rhetorical question in that moment that opened a door that had never been opened and that was really powerful that was really impactful I will say that uh like you know many we love seeing the two of you it is uh this is the longest I've been quiet this is so You're doing amazing, baby. I'm really proud of you. You know what? Actually, I was going to say, Carrie wasn't quiet throughout the whole thing. Did you notice? She jumped in there.

1:33:15She goes like, she wants to talk about her voice. And then she pulled on Max. She was like, I'm just going to let her talk. I was not letting you tell a story. I didn't want to. But you two are phenomenal together. Truly, truly. Carrie, I'm so happy to have known you for a long time. Time. Right? Too long. But to see the light. and then to know what the next chapter holds for you, right? And then, Paolo, like, you are just, you're 10-10. You're 10-10. What I love, love, love, you just repeated what Carrie said, and that is that you can see the lessons in the mud, right? This is Carrie's through line.

1:33:57She wouldn't change a thing. She sees the lessons. She sees how it's made her better. You show up in life the same way. You two are supremely perfect for each other, and I can't wait for the wedding. You'll be there up the front? I mean, I will be there. It feels like this is technically round three. I believe I have never been roasted as much as in this conversation, and I enjoyed every second of it. I had no idea that she had, like, the big production companies and networks reach out to her to cover her life story as a part of her first conversation with us. That is incredible, amazing. It needs to happen because she has such a profound story.

1:34:50The We Need to Talk community is so incredible on uplifting our guests. And for Carrie, walking into this space, she had never done a full-length podcast. She sits down. She bares her soul. She's thinking she will be judged or evaluated or critiqued. But here she is being uplifted and held and loved and respected as a result of that. And that has happened because of how great our community is. You know, so I think we're blessed and we're privileged to have such a kind community. you know, shocker to learn that they've had multiple miscarriages, but also that Carrie was pregnant during the finale filming of Celebs Go Dating.

1:35:44And for Paolo to turn to Carrie, knowing that she's pregnant and to say, I am here for you, was probably all she needed to know that he was authentically in love with her. And that, to me, goes to show that love will come at the most unexpected times, in the most unexpected packages. We broke up because he thought I was having an affair. But you didn't want to break up with him. No. I have never in 30 years read a good headline about me. Never. Katie Price. Katie Price. Katie Price. Plastic surgery. Every relationship I've been in, I've been cheated on. And JJ, he's the most kindest, genuine person.

1:36:30But do I feel my most happiest? I have never heard anyone that has the life experience that you have and is standing today. The police said to us, you're so lucky that you weren't killed. I took coke because it blocked everything. And then I tried to commit suicide. I had a black eye and marks around my neck. What the are you doing, Kate? I would never wish it on my worst enemy. If I got through it, anyone can. But you have to want to do it. There's so much in my life that I smile about that no one knows really what I have achieved. I work hard. I'm a single mum. I run the ship. I don't need a man.

1:37:12Can I give you a little surprise? Oh, what the have you done?