Love Island’s Simba & Angelista: He Had Options, I Had None

30:56Because if I would go out and have a game on a Saturday and not play well, I felt like I was letting my mum down. Because I want to be able to give her the life that she deserves. I want to be able to make her proud. I wanted to see me playing on TV you know these and then I would have a bad game and oh my I would lose it like in my room and in a weird way I think it kind of came out a little bit in Love Island a little bit like you see aspects of me like storming off and stuff and having a little tantrum and I'm all like I do that you know I've been doing that since I was a kid I'm not saying that's the reason why but I think I've seen a couple clips on it it's like I recognise this you know I used to do this when I was a kid like when things weren't going my way and I felt like I was letting especially my mum down just be in my room huffing and puffing I'd be like you know I can't do anything right and then that same question you asked me now it's given me so much more perspective on life it's made me realize you know what's important in life it's made me it's brought me to here funnily enough you know I feel like I was saying to myself last night this line just kept going on in my head people think that you know I'm here because of Love Island but I'm here because of my mum and the reason I am here because of my mum is because the choices that I've made from the day she got diagnosed that's what's led me here everything I've done I've just tried to make her proud you know I made her a promise about two years ago no a year ago she was in hospital I can't remember exactly what was going on I think it was fibroids um don't quote me but I know she was in a really bad way and for me I thought that you know it wasn't looking too great you know again that the same feeling that I had when she was 14 when she said to my dad look after the boys now my dad's out of picture I kind of felt that same energy now at 23 and I remember saying to myself or saying to her I need you to keep going because I'm gonna do something great like I can I feel it, like something's lingering.

32:57I know something's... There's going to be a happily ever after after this. You know, she gave me a smile as best as she could. And that's why I say the only reason I'm here is because of my mum getting diagnosed in 2012. I understand. Yeah. And I find it so interesting that you had to navigate a lot of this with your father in the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, in the house, yeah. Yeah. And you're the older brother. Older brother. As well. Yeah. Now I can see that there was a drive, a hunger. Hunger, that's the word. That's in you. To achieve something. Yeah, yeah. Like something big.

33:30Something, it has to be, yeah. Is this part of how you decided to go on Love Island? And how did that come about? How was, who reached out to who? So it was always like a joke in my friendship circle, I'd say. You know, we kind of used to watch Love Island as kids, me and my friends. and they'd always be like, you know, that could be you one day type of thing. And I always said, no, football is the only thing I'd ever do. Imagine missing a whole summer of pre-season, you know, to sit in a villa talking to girls all day in the sun. Like, you know, I should be training. I've got dreams to achieve and stuff.

34:10I need to change my mum's life. And it was a girl that one of my friends from uni, she just sent it to me, like the application link one time on DM. and she was like, you know, you should do this. Like, I could see you doing this. And I was like, oh gosh, everyone keeps saying this to me. Like, you know, maybe this is, I don't know, you know. But I said to her, like, there's no chance. There's like a million people that apply for this show every year. Applied and, yeah, yeah, no. When you get there, okay, I know that that first kind of lineup is everything because you don't know who else is on the show.

34:44You don't know who they are, what they look like, et cetera, right? I think also what must be the case, I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this, but I'm going to say that it's got to be. You tell me if I'm wrong, is if you are black, if you are Asian and you are on this show, you're looking to see how many other black people are there, how many other Asian people, how many other people of color, whatever it may be. You know, so, A, did you do that? And then when you're looking, what are you thinking? What's your initial thoughts looking at everyone? Yeah, for sure. I think for me in that cast, OP, Samraj, Jazz, Priya, and Angie, and Mika.

35:38So it was quite a few to be fair. but for me you know from a relatability standpoint in terms of like life Samraj was I think the we're not the first when I say the first it took me a while to connect with a lot of people but he was the first out of you know that initial group in terms of you know relatability and we started talking about life and he has his own battles and adversity that he's gone through in his life and you know I opened up to him about my mum and my brother and my family dynamic so we were able to like click quite well in terms of that standpoint. But obviously prior to that, if we're talking like first, it was Angie.

36:22Yeah. So you walked in, you saw Angie. Yeah. And did you think, okay, that is it? That's it. That's it? Because remember, I came in as a bombshell, so I already saw her on my TV. That's true. And I already knew, you know. And then when I heard she was in Barbwin, like I was like yeah come on like guys this is too like this is you know like what is this at this point you know it's literally like what is this you know we might as well just you know what I mean just call it a day here you know right like it was just too good to be true like genuinely felt like this is just too good to be true you know what was your impression so when you saw her what were you thinking just like wow like definitely I remember the first thought I was nervous I thought wow she's even better looking in person there's so many things that you know I couldn't really tell from a TV screen that now I'm looking at I'm like wow like you know just just like the poise that's the word I always used to describe it there's just so much poise there's just so much elegance grace the way that she just like conducts herself you know especially in group settings I always say to her you know you're not the loudest voice but you're the voice that's heard and for me that describes my perfect woman, like my future partner in terms of one of the major characteristics that I want.

37:45You're not the loudest voice, but you're the voice that's heard. Yeah. I love that. I tell you, from everyone that I know that talks about, you know, that talks about all the participants, when Angie's name comes up, it's always the most mature. You know, like this was, to your point, the voice is always heard. Always heard, yeah. What do you believe she thought of you the moment that she first saw you? I see the smile. What do you think she really thought? You know, she's told me a few things. Now, I've seen a few things as well in terms of after our first conversation, you know, I think she said immediately, yes, you know, immediately, yes.

38:31I think In terms of like her type and stuff I kind of fit You know that kind of From like a physical standpoint anyways You know What she's told me I've heard anyways You know that like I'm her type Okay And I think With Angie It normally takes people quite a while to get to know me To kind of understand how my brain works but she picked up very quickly which is a little bit scary to be honest okay yeah do you know what her biggest concern about you was when she met you and just initially yeah when she met me initially i think she thought that i would just be doing just be talking to this girl talking to that girl like i just i'd be a player you know i'd just be having fun i wouldn't really be genuine um which I understand because I've been having these kind of problems even on the outside before Love Island.

39:31You know, girls would say that to me. You know, the wandering eye. You know, I've had it, yeah, basically all my life from women. They'd always tell me these things. So do you think that's what she thought or you know for sure? That's what I think. But you don't know for sure? I don't really know, no. I don't really know. On that note, how about we ask her? The boss. How about we ask her? Yeah, let's ask her. Because I need to know the answer to this. Can we bring Angie? Yeah. Let's bring her. Hey, Paul, we've got a surprise for you. You do? All right. Who's it from? It's love from your listeners.

40:10We Need to Talk is sponsored by Claude Bionthropic, the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. So we thought we'd use it to make Paul something special from you. Using Claude, we analyzed every comment left on all the 102 YouTube episodes and then prompted it to turn that data into something beautiful. This design is 10-10. We talk to each other. 6 ,021. That's how many ongoing conversations were sparked in the comments of your episodes. Wow. Thank you for giving us the confidence to be as open with each other as your guests are with you. That is a lot of conversations. And that, I would say, has been my biggest surprise about We Need to Talk, is how many people continue the conversation from the episode into their lives with people they love, with their friends, with their family, with their partners, and how those conversations then help them to change their behavior.

41:11And so that's all I could ask. For delving deeper, get started with claude.ai slash talk. That's claude.ai slash talk. Angie, first, thank you. Thank you so much. For being here. I was talking about at the top that initially this was just going to be a Simba conversation. Yeah. I got a little message from you, right? And it was so compelling that I thought, okay, we have to have you here. All right. But we'll talk about that in a little bit. But right now we're in Love Island. OK, we were at you two just meeting. OK. And I just asked Simba a question that I need to hear from you what the true answer is.

42:01So when you first saw Simba, I just asked him, what was your truly like, what was your number one concern about him? because I think he fit your type. Oh, yeah. But what was of concern to you? I think it was just the level of seriousness. Yeah, I was like, I don't know how serious he is, especially with this environment. I'm thinking, I don't know if he's really going to take me in. I don't know. You might say he's interested, but I don't know to what extent. Is it just like just on a vibey, like you just want to flirt kind of vibe or like do you want to go deeper? So that's that was my concern.

42:51I don't know if he was going to play around or not. OK. All right. That's fair. That's fair. Did he did did you feel like he was I mean, I'm assuming you thought he was attractive. Yeah. Right. Did you feel like immediately he was the one and the only one? Yeah, for me, I don't know. That instant connection was crazy. Was it? Like that first conversation, I haven't felt like that in a long time. And I've been single for like four years. And I've been on dates. And it just, it never hit like that in person for the first time. Really? Even with the cameras? Even with the cameras. You literally forget about them.

43:34Forget about it. Okay. When we was talking, it literally just felt like everything else was dark. and it was just us. It was crazy. Okay. So how, you know, when you're having this first conversation, right, I know you have to try to work out, okay, you're on a show. Is the person serious? Is this real? Are they really into me? How do you do that in a conversation like that? I feel like for me, I just gauge, like, how vulnerable are you willing to get? Because I'm the type of person, I don't like surface-level conversations. I feel like it's just a waste of time. And I think it was like the second or third night in bed, he got really vulnerable to a point where like, he was like crying in my arms, just talking about his mom and obviously what he wants to do for her.

44:27And he just started crying. I'm thinking it's literally been like three days. And from that point onwards, I was like, oh, okay, it's deeper. like this guy's like I he like I don't know is it fair to say that you felt like I was your safe space I don't know like it just felt like he felt safe in that moment and I felt like I wanted to be there in that moment and from then it was like something that was like an unsaid connection between us okay like no one else knew that but us so it was like a you okay yeah I'm sorry sorry So yeah, it was deep. And from then I was like, yeah, like, he's serious.

45:09So let me, yeah. Let me be. Let me see. Let me see. Let me take him in a little bit. Can we just touch on that conversation? And the reason why I want to touch on it is because from what I understand, it was not aired. A lot of our conversations in bed were really deep, really vulnerable. like beyond belief yeah yeah we used to have and it's not aired yeah it wasn't aired at all our conversations were crazy like we would stay up the lights would go off and like we was always told where the last ones to go to sleep we'll be up two hours after the lights are out two three hours just talking just talking so what was it then because it seems like that conversation yeah something happened in that conversation that cemented you two.

46:03Like perhaps you've never been close to anyone else. Yeah. Can you share what you talked about? He started it off, to be honest. I think I was getting scared, basically. I was getting scared that it was only day four, I think, the fourth day. And I was getting scared that she was very quickly becoming like the only person in here for me. So when the sleepover comes, you two have already, in essence, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but almost like committed to each other. Is that too strong? I mean, it was an underlying understanding. Yeah, yeah. Like we knew under the surface what it was.

46:51It was an underlying understanding. Yeah, underlying understanding, but yeah. Okay. We knew here. Okay, here. Here. But I knew that our story wasn't going to be a situation where we can just roll with that and just, you know, be off with the fairies. Okay. When was the first true test of your relationship? The hideaway? Yeah, yeah. The hideaway situation. It was a bit of a sticky one. I just felt like I understood you to a level where it's like, I know you. And the hideaway thing, it was just like, wait, what? So can you explain for anyone who didn't watch, right? But they want to understand how this was a test for your relationship.

47:45What happened at the hideaway? so um i went away um i think it was for a night to the sleepover villa and at that time i was getting to know me a car uh a little bit and in the sleepover villa you know we tried to explore the connection um and we came back i mean i don't want to put you on the spot yeah yeah but how do you try to explore a connection like what are the activities in love for a connection in love island terms uh you know exploring connections is like you kiss basically um and you try to you know kind of just see if there's any feelings there you know um again this isn't how i'd operate on the outside but you know love island is its own unique environment where um people kind of you know feel the urge to really um interact with one another especially in a physical physical way um So, yeah, we kissed in the sleepover villa, but we didn't end up sharing a bed that night because she got picked by Chidi to share a bed and stuff.

48:59So she decided to sleep with Chidi that night, where she said, you know, there's another opportunity. If another opportunity comes up to share a bed or whatever, then, you know, she'd be happy to do so. so then we came back to the main villa now and I'm I was coupled up with Angie at the time but you can only go to the hideaway um with someone you're not in a couple with so given that we didn't get the opportunity to do so in the sleepover villa you know I thought okay why not share a bed with me just to see again where my head's at give me some more clarity because it's like for me me and Angie were so good at that point and I was a little bit like you know everyone keeps saying i need to still explore at this point it's only been just over a week i've been i haven't even been in the villa for two weeks yet so it's still early and i kept thinking how can i explore this connection more to see how i really feel because i kissed me but i still don't really feel anything so i was like maybe if i share a bed with her then that will you know spark something or maybe that might make me realize okay cool i actually really like which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully.

50:04Honestly, it does. Yeah, it is. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. All right, so I have to ask. Yeah, yeah. So, Andrew, what's your take on that? I was speechless. Like, genuinely, I didn't have any words when he told me that that was his idea. Like, it seemed way out of character for him. Yeah. Just based on our private conversations. So I was just like, I don't know. Like it was, it was very strange to me that like, cause it didn't even make sense. Cause I was like, this is your first night back. And then you want to not sleep. You've been away for three days. Your first night back. I've been sleeping alone for three days.

50:45And then was it three days or two nights? I don't even know. Okay. It felt like three days. And then, and then you want to come back and then be in a hideaway. and I'm slept by myself knowing that you're with someone else. Like, that was insane to me. I couldn't even say anything. Like, in an amazing, beautiful world, I would have cussed him out. But I just could not speak. Like, there was no words. All there was was just, like, little tears coming out because I'm like, this can't be. So you were hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Overly hurt. Yeah. Did you feel like the underlying understanding was no more? Yeah, I did feel like, I don't know, it just felt like maybe I was just like, that was just a me thing.

51:33Maybe it was just my own understanding. Maybe he's just, I don't know, off with the fairies somewhere. Okay. Simba, did you know how hurt Angie was? Yeah, I remember telling her about, you know, me wanting to go to the hideaway of Mika and she started crying. and I think that was the first time I seen you guys. And then I started to realise, okay, like, you know, this girl actually likes me. Do you feel any level of responsibility being a black couple on Love Island while you were on the project? Do you want to go first? Um, for me, I would say yes. Um, cause I know there's a lot of younger black girls watching, older black women watching.

52:32So for me, I was being myself and I dealt with the situations just naturally how I, how I felt in the moment. but then there was times where I was like oh like I should have probably went a bit harder because it's like I know like probably people watching like like they probably wanted that for me to go hard and for my situation to be like you know what stand up for yourself as a black woman be strong in a sense of like don't take you know foolishness kind of thing and then obviously the way I dealt with like the first situation for instance it was just like yeah it was so I did kind of have that in my mind where I was like I felt like yeah I should I could have went a bit harder I feel like you probably had it worse yeah um for me I think I remember when my dad came on family day and this is actually related to Anjay he came on family day and again I don't when they aired this but he said to me he basically gave me an inkling of like what's to come that outside the noise you know there's going to be some hate and stuff especially from black women you know he kind of he didn't say explicitly like that but he kind of like dropped it you know kind of just put the seed in my head for me to like actually digest what you're saying and he basically said to me that you have to understand that Angie's a black woman and you know at this point me and Angie were good we're in a very good place but he said you have to understand that you know social media uh like angie said that there's women that are are looking at angie like a sister yeah you know like like a daughter you know and they feel they can't exactly feel what she's feeling but you know they're empathizing a lot to angie's situation and you're a black man as well you know so you have to you just basically said to me like brace yourself and i think that moment that's when it kind of clicked for me that okay there is extra pressure especially you know um in our couple, black man, black woman, and what we're representing as well.

54:39With Love Island 2 is, what was the moment for you, Simba? The moment where you fully trusted, fully trusted Angie?

54:56The recoupling speech, the last recoupling speech that she did before basically the last one of the whole season. She stood up, black dress, wearing black dress, and I remember standing literally diagonally opposite her and she was in flow state. like some of the stuff she was saying like only my person would be able to say these things and the fact that she was saying it not just to me but I know just to all the islanders the whole country you know she was speaking about like me being god-fearing and me opening up to her and being vulnerable and us loving each other and me being like a part of home for her I was just like whoa like she to be fair all her recoupling speeches were really good but that one yeah that's the one I'll never forget because I just remember I didn't know where to look I was just like whoa like she she just keeps kept going and going and going and going and my face was hurting from smiling and you know and I don't know if they I'm guessing they had to obviously like edit it because it was it was like that was it was a lengthy amount of time was it and all the boys were like to me wow like you know angie like that was one of the the greatest speeches i've ever heard and i remember saying to the boys it's not even my birthday you know like imagine what you gonna do on my birthday when she's like standing up and having to speak about me and that's how she made me feel it made she made me feel like it was my birthday so imagine the wedding crazy crazy ridiculous yeah i loved it angie what was the moment that you fully found trust in Simba?

56:49I think it was the day after he came back from Casa and he called it a day with Mara the next day. And when I was hearing his behavior in bed with her, like the day they came back from Casa that night, like he turned over, like he just, no talking no touching no nothing i was upstairs so i didn't see what was going on in the bed downstairs that was the first night that they spent together in the villa in bed so i was just a bit like oh that was going on they talking like was i still hadn't really gauged the situation because i don't know anything so then when the next day i'm hearing that that was the case and he was going to call it a day I was like oh yeah after one day after one day it hadn't even been 24 hours it was literally just the night basically it was literally just the night and then the next morning yeah it came back in the night and by the morning I just said yeah it's done yeah so for me that was like a big teller for me I was like oh okay yeah he's like serious like he knows like what he wants for real because he could have dragged it on and done the whole triangle Oh, I don't know you or her.

58:04But like, yeah, I brought her and then like literally the next morning it was like done. So I was just like, okay, I can trust that he knows what's what. Like the pennies dropped now for him. Yes, yes. Okay. So now you both finished third. Yeah. Okay. I see here that the season 13 finale had 1.1 million viewers and countless millions viewed clips, et cetera, right? So still incredibly popular. Were you surprised that you came in third? That's the question. I wasn't surprised. You weren't surprised? Low-key, we was like, okay, like, definitely not winning, but more so, like, we was, like, second maybe, but we was like third like we was like to be honest because even like jazz was saying to me like the day before she was like you're definitely going to be second and i was like not really because i was like let's boil it down to race now like really and truly i don't know from my understanding i'm like do black people vote like that for real for real like just based on that i I was like, yeah, it would probably just be bad.

59:22Yeah. Yeah. So you thought third, but it sounds like you wanted one of two places up. Yeah. Yeah, just knowing our connection, what was you going to say? I feel like a big telltale for me was all the ex-Islanders coming in. I'll never forget that day. You know, all the ex-Islanders, every single person that we've lived with, they've seen our highs, but they've also seen our lows as well. But the most important thing is It's 24 hours worth So they're living every single day with us And we didn't get any votes And I remember The vote was who doesn't deserve Who doesn't deserve to get to the final Oh doesn't Yeah basically who doesn't deserve to get to the final And I think there was some couples on like 8 votes 7 votes Basically every couple had at least 2 votes The next up was yeah 2 And those are the winners Julian Lorenzo got 2 But we had none you know so for me I feel like that that could have in terms of from the public perspective you know if I'm watching that member of the public I'm thinking okay maybe cool they might not be my favourite couple but at the end of the day these are the people that are spending the most time with them every day and they think that they're not worthy of getting any votes as a reason why they shouldn't get to the final so it sounds like you were hopeful that you could have won I was hopeful but like Angie said realistically that was just hopeful thinking Me and Kav literally said, Lorenzo Uliya winning it, a second is a flip of a coin.

1:00:49We literally said, me and Kav literally said a flip of a coin. And even the percentages, I think we missed that by what, 1.1 % or something. Yeah, it was close. Yeah, very close. It was very close. That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. So now, a question I asked earlier, but now, Angie, I have to come to you, right? This is not to put you on the spot, but it is to put you on the spot. Okay. Did you find love in the middle? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Without question. Without question. Without question. Without a question. Okay. All right. I love this. I love this. So you found love in the villa.

1:01:23Still in love now. All right. So where do we stand right now? Because we touched on it earlier. But now that we're here now, so we have two lovers sitting awfully close. Yeah Okay Where do we stand right now In terms of our coupling? Like I said I think it's up to him Well I think you can't be in love And not be Yeah for sure That doesn't make sense And not be what? And not be boyfriend or girlfriend Yeah You can't be in love And not be in a relationship For sure not What's that about? Do you know what I mean? I think I agree and she knows this you know outside world and being in that villa it's like it's like polar opposites basically in a sense you know it's just time Paul I think it's just oh my gosh there's been no time there's been no time to go on a date and just like phones down and just and just look at her and just take her in and take just take us in there was a moment where we was like you know what tonight we're actually just gonna sit and watch Netflix yeah put down our phones yes and just have us time because since coming out it's just been go, go, go, go, go.

1:02:44There's been no time. There's been no time. No time. No time. But you know what's interesting is that we're seated here on the couch, right? Yeah. Candles. Nah. It's kind of romantic. Kind of romantic. Right? Nah. We have had Andrew just say it's up to him. It's up to him what he wants to do. I don't know if he wants to... I feel like you were taking time because you wanted to plan something. I just feel like God works mysterious ways. I had a conversation with my brother last night. You know, I came back from football late last night and I had one of my, like, you know, those moments where I'm just like, oh, huffing and puffing and stuff.

1:03:23I felt that on FaceTime. I was like, do you want five minutes? Yeah, she felt it. And I said to my brother, when am I going to find the time to make her my girlfriend? Like, I just need to do this. And my brother was like, You don't need to force it. I was like, I know, but, you know, like, I want to do this now, you know, because, again, I'm thinking about her, and I don't want her to feel, like you just said, how can I be in love and not be official? Because I had a feeling these feelings might start to seep in, and I don't want that for you. And I know how I feel, you know, I love you. And, you know, she's met my whole family.

1:03:53But, again, it's just crazy. I literally had this conversation with my brother last night. Yeah, there you go. I'm telling you. I think we've lived our life on camera for so long. I just want to have our moment. Private moments are like everything to us. No, seriously. Thank you so much. Thank you. I mean, it's been epic. See you later. Enjoy it. Oh, come on. Come on. I'm just talking to him. Oh, sorry.

1:04:21All right. I can't believe I'm saying this. We are on the pathway. We can see it. The light is at the end of the tunnel to 1 million subscribers. And so here's what I want to say is, if you're already subscribed, thank you so much. We appreciate it. If you are not yet subscribed, I ask you to do so. Why? Because signals to the world that these conversations matter. So if you're not subscribed, please do so. If you are, thank you so very much.

1:04:53I appreciate you spending some time with me. Yes. This came about last minute. Oh, yeah. This conversation. but when you wrote to me and I read what you wanted to talk about yeah it's a topic that I've always wanted to talk about here but never had anyone to do it with yeah wow thank you honestly thank you so much for even giving that time of day I didn't even think you would so as much as you want to go into this if you could maybe what we should do is if you could explain to everyone watching what it was that you wrote to me so it was just more so basically just my experience as a black woman on love island um i felt like my experience was it did feel lonely sometimes compared to like other female Love Island contestants I felt like the desirability it's always really been a topic so it wasn't like I was walking into Love Island being like oh yeah I'm gonna be desired by everyone like I knew there was a risk in that but it's just living it it just hits different so my thing was like I walked in there was hardly desired and then when someone finally walked in that was like gunning for me straight away from the outside he said Angie straight away came inside same energy when I had when I finally had that the one time I just felt like now my narrative had to be a situation where he's the player and I'm sitting around and I'm just waiting for him to finish his dog days when in reality it's like I had no options for real like I wasn't given like they gave him all the options like you know he had sleepover opportunities he had you know people was interested multiple people was interested in him like not even like just when he walked in so many people like literally the next morning they was like yeah respectfully Angie I'm gonna also get to know Simba so it's like can I have one thing so it just felt like okay he has his options but like okay can we bring in someone that I can also get to know and you know test our connection on my side because now it just looks like I'm just sitting here looking like a fool when it's like it's not by choice I see it like my hand was forced to sit here and because like Like, who else is?

1:07:42I'm not going to speak to someone who's not interested in me just for the sake of, like, trying to explore. Like, no one's interested in me. And no one came in interested in me. I was actually sitting there and I was thinking, hold on. But, like, I had a really difficult experience, like, in terms of just my experience just as a black woman. And I haven't seen anyone else do it. That's why I was like, let me say something because I really need to just get it off my chest. Like, I was talking to my mom, and I was just there like, nah, like, that wasn't right, what happened. Like, because now I look crazy.

1:08:16Like, do you know what I mean? But, yeah, it was, yeah, you get it. Yeah, fully, fully. Thank you for that. When you wrote that to me, the reason why I was so interested to talk about it, And the reason why I have wanted to talk about this topic is because I don't think I know not only in the UK, in the U.S., in many other countries, there is, I would call it a horrendous problem with how black women are treated on television. Yeah. Now, that's not to say black men are not treated horribly or white men, white women, et cetera, certain religion, certain nationality, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:09:16But this is a conversation about black women. Yeah. And we're going to keep it at that. Yeah. I know some people are going to say, oh, Paul, no, no, no. This is about black women. Yeah. And you touched on what I think is one of this underlining issues that I see in the two because I'm working in the U.S. and the U.K. Yeah, right. And that word is desirability. Yeah. And the issue that I see is that by placing you as a black woman on a reality show, and if you feel as if there is no options, if you feel as if there is no desirability, it's like you're saying there were no options for me. the the not only is there an impact on you but then the perception is that you have black women watching at home and we know that there's a parasocial relationship with reality tv people have a relationship they see you they're like angie's me or angie's my sister Or Angie's my daughter.

1:10:26Or Angie is I'm connected to her. We have a relationship. And the more that they could feel you not feeling desired, it's internalized. Yeah. And so then even though I'm sure people fight to have you on for representation. Yeah. By not giving you a full experience, what it does is it's actually a ripple effect of being detrimental. Yeah. And I'll even go a step further, is I think it's incredibly detrimental to black men. Yeah. Because you have black men watching and they say, oh, look at that. Oh, she's not desirable. Right. Or they say, she looks, she doesn't have a lot of options. And then they watch the parasocial relationship they have with Simba and say, well, look, look at all the options.

1:11:31Yeah. That that fish in the sea, fish in the sea. So this is something that has just upset me. And from the inside, I have, I'm telling you, I have had endless conversations, endless conversations with production companies, with networks. We got to change this. This has got to change. We're doing a disservice to this person. Do you know what's happening here? And so that's why when you sent that message to me, it was one of those, it was a trigger for me. Yeah, because you're trying to fix it. And it's like... It's just... It's just not changing. So why did you feel as if you had no other options?

1:12:18I think it was just point blank in my face. Literally, when I walked in the first day, we had to sit around the fire pit. And it was a situation where I think it was like, oh yeah, so who finds this person attractive? Or, oh, like, who would you say is wifey material? And, like, my name is everyone else sitting there. Their name is getting called for something in terms of attractiveness, wifey material. Wifey, I got it from Opie, which I was like, I think he's seen it. I think by that point he's seen that, okay, no one's even batting an eyelid at Angie. So the wifey material came up. I'm thinking, OK, maybe someone's going to feel sorry for me at least and be like, you know what?

1:13:07She's quiet. She's very demure. Maybe this is wifey. We can just say, yeah, Angie, like at least like, but no one and everyone. I was just sitting there. If you see my body language, even when I watched it back, even just living in that moment, I was just like, yeah, I was like, oh, that's nice. Like for the other girls, I was like happy for them. But then I was like that reality just set in like where I am. and I was just there like this is where it all starts like this is where it all starts no one's even batting the eyelids except for one person so it's like automatically now it's a situation where I have to entertain this situation because he's the only one interested in me I had chats with a lot of the guys within like the first like couple days in the villa we was all pulling everyone for a chat we was all chatting to each other and just even in those interactions it just felt on their side, like just platonic straight away.

1:14:01Like you can just feel the vibes. And it was never a thing where there was someone continuously pulling me for a chat and being like, actually, yeah, we had a good first conversation. I want to, because I had ideas in my head where I'm like, actually, me and such and such, we had a good conversation. So actually I'm going to entertain that. Even though I was coupled up with OP, I was like, still like, okay, let me actually see. But it wasn't really, I didn't feel from their side. So I kind of was just like, nah, like I'm not even gonna, because you can just tell when people aren't interested. So that's when I started to feel like, yeah, I don't have options here.

1:14:38So I have to kind of be in a situation where I'm with someone who's not all the way my type. And I have to kind of not force it, but now I have to force myself to grow into liking this person. like when I know it's a situation where first conversation we did there was an instant spark romantically but I felt like I had to just hone into that because I'm like hey he's the only one that's like showing any type of interest yeah and I just yeah and and um did you feel as if because he was the only one that if you didn't show interest then that's it for you oh yeah Oh, 100%. Like 100%. I was on that next flight.

1:15:24And obviously when I walked in, you're told, be open, be open, be open. So I'm like, okay, cool. He's not my typical type for real. So this is my be open moment. So I'm like, okay, you know what, let me just be open. So that was my moment where I'm like, not really thinking about, oh my gosh, I'm going to go home if I don't show interest. But it was just more so, okay, let me just be open and see where this openness leads. but yeah I ended up just leading like you know I ended up finding out that he was saying that um I think on his one of his intro is like a Scottish blonde is his type so I was like oh right then yeah then you're I was like there you go then you're out now I'm like okay what do you think the future looks like and what what what can we do I think for me the ideal future is to bring when you're like trying to tick the diversity box for these shows these dating shows like not only tick that box but make sure that they get the full experience as well like what you were saying like I just feel like come us coming in and ticking that box for you it's all good and well but then when we're having experience where it's like all the other girls they have they're in situations where you know like with my situation for instance there's bombshells walking in and They're saying, oh, yeah, like this girl, that girl.

1:16:46And it's consistently like other girls bar me, the only like full black girl, I guess, like dark skin, mind you. So, yeah, like everyone else is interested in this one, that one, like that don't even look like me. I mean, I'm the only one wearing a wig. Like, so it's like I'm a specific type of niche. So I feel like the diversity box is checked. But like, when times of my experience, I feel like you need to also bring in people who are also interested in, you know, people that look like me. Like, because it's just not living it is it's it's horror because I just feel like my narrative was now forced to be a situation where like I didn't want to be in a situation where I had to deal with what I had to deal with.

1:17:34Like, to be honest, like Simba was the best option in and out the villa. like I'm not saying that oh yeah I want to if there was someone to walk in I would have sacked him off because of the situations and I would have gone elsewhere and I wasn't given the opportunity that's not what I'm saying I just feel like the same way he got to explore figure out where his head's at and what not as much as I knew like okay we have a strong connection there was no opportunity for me this is Love Island at the end of the day like it's a situation where it's like you're not gonna get moments like this where you can sit and you can talk to this one and it's okay and sit and talk to this one and it's okay in front of each other's bases because we're trying to figure out our situation and where we stand with each other and it's like I wasn't that was I wasn't given the full love I didn't experience to be honest you just said something too that we didn't even touch well you touched on it and I'm glad you brought it up yeah colorism yeah that that is oh oh my god Do we have another hour?

1:18:38Do we have another hour? It's crazy. It is, to me, and I mean, these are all the things that I'm just getting off my chest. When I got to the UK, I noticed, all right, tell me if this is inaccurate. Okay. Okay. This is my observation. Okay. Is I noticed something very interesting about television shows here. And that is, is that television shows, predominantly white shows, predominantly white shows. But as the show wanted to diversify, the first option typically was someone who was someone mixed race, light complexion. Yeah, that's true. And by doing that, it was like a checkbox, right? And then what you see is then you see maybe two mixed race people.

1:19:42So it's slowly. Yeah, it's very gradual. Very gradual. Baby steps. Baby steps. It's a humbling experience, to say the least. That was a very humbling experience, especially when the person that you're coupled up with is speaking to this one or that one. and it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's really humbling because when you think you have such a connection to it, it's like, yeah, and then you see the reality of what Love Island is, you have to talk to other people, but then it's just like, and then you're sat there with nothing. It's like in my spare time, I'm watching him having conversations.

1:20:20It's like, because what else can I do? That place is small. And it was just, yeah, it was very humbling. But there were good times. I'm not going to lie, because in terms of my wig situation, I felt so seen. So seen. They were so understanding in terms of catering to me in that department. Like if I needed more time in terms of my hair, because we would have like lunch before we would start getting ready for the nighttime. time so they would say okay like if you need to like change your wig or something ask us like if there's like three hours to get ready and you'll know that's your time to change your wig okay and there was like you have to do like your beach huts before you can um before i can start changing my look and getting ready so they would say okay cool if you need to change your wig we'll put you first on the list to do the beach hut so you can start getting ready and have the full three outs because sometimes you can be waiting for a beach up for ages because you're waiting for everyone else to finish like my experience as a whole with like the team and everything in my process going through it like it was amazing I'm not even gonna lie I'll give that to them but it was just the the option part if if that was if that was sorted sorry I wouldn't have a bad word to say yeah yeah and also I just felt like the whole I don't know like for me it was like why couldn't I just have the person that was gunning in for me and we can just ride off in the sunset why did our narrative had to be have to be toxic especially as black people it's just like and then zin men they don't have a good rep like zin men are known to they have a stereotype of being cheaters and stuff like that so it's like our narrative doesn't help you know stereotypes I see it and it's like I'm the strong black woman that stays and it's like you know like the olden days where it's like like your grandmas would tell you oh just just stay just stay it looks like that was my vibe and my friends and family they know me I am I am completely opposite I was literally like to my friend I've done all this work being single for three four years and my standpoint on like men and how you you should be treated like it's all it all just felt like it was just thrown in the bin because going on the show and my situation is complete opposite to what I preach and how I maneuver usually on the dating world in the dating world but it's like I was forced to be in a situation just because I had no options it looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right but it was like I couldn't look left or right if I could I would have yeah I hear you yeah i hear you i hear you yeah i i i um i wanted us to talk about this yeah because i wanted you to to to feel seen yeah and feel heard and and know that there's there's there there are this conversation there is going to be an endless number of people who resonate with it yeah viewers participants of different projects participants of production companies and networks who are fighting because there's many many people fighting to try to make this happen um it's something that needs to change in this industry right it's an industry for me it's an industry issue i won't stop fighting on it thank you so much it's and and also i almost wanted to have this conversation because this is something that I have been fighting on for 10 years.

1:24:05Easy. Wow. Easy. I've been having conversations for 10 years. You know, this is the kind of behind the scenes work that so many people are unaware that happens. The hard conversations that are happening. And even for me, I have to be delicate. Yes. You know, you gotta be delicate. You have to say it in a specific way because you know what I mean like you can't be raw about it like you have to say it in a persuasive nice kind of but that's just because of like just who we are as people like just being black you can't just be like oh but yeah that's the reality that's the reality yeah that's the life we live yeah but I'd say we're I always say though we're so blessed I was gonna say that so blessed Like I wouldn't want to be any other way.

1:24:54No. Genuinely. No. Genuinely. Yeah. It's one of those where I feel so blessed to be black. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So blessed. Yeah. And so, yeah. And it's always been the case, to be honest. There was never an identity crisis around here. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah. No, no, no. Never that. It was never that. But yeah, I'm blessed. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. All right. We're blessed. We are blessed. We're blessed. And we're black. You know what we are? What? We are blessed. We are black. Yes. We are brilliant. We are beautiful. You say it. And we are everything. Yes, absolutely. Amen to that.

1:25:42Amen to that. You know, I'm so glad we had this conversation. Yes, I'm so glad that I got this opportunity to speak to you. of all people, this was like something that was like vision board vibes. Double whammy. It was great to hear Angie and Simba unpack their relationship and the dynamics of their relationship. I think we can all understand truly now how their relationship formed and why it's so strong today. The conversation I had with Angie, just the two of us, was a conversation I've wanted to have publicly for quite some time. And as we walked through that conversation, I could see that we were step in step, hand in hand.

1:26:32We were in full agreement. And I know we're not the only two that believe this. I know there is an endless number of people that see what we see. not only people of color, but all people that see what we see and realize something needs to change. I saw that you require men to sign an NDA and sometimes have a vasectomy. Did you ever get a vasectomy? Who me? No. Free ballin'. All right. Literally. Literally. Don't talk to me anymore. So 16 and pregnant and teen mom. I like got to the realest point in my life because I'm living in my car and going to school and also watching my kid. So Derek is the father of your child?

1:27:18Yeah, he just showed me a lot of love. And I think sometimes when you're so desperate, you need just a touch of love, but not go for and , what I sadly reached out to. I remember you were in all the tabloids. You were arrested several times. Yeah, doing nothing. So what happened? Wow, you got serious there. It is so surreal, because even like our immature fights and i used to be like well i will never be there if you die and then when someone you love really dies you're like why did i say all those stupid hurtful things the day that derek passed how did you find out it's gonna bring me to tears i have a very important surprise for you you ready oh god that made my whole year