Myleene Klass EXCLUSIVE: I Caught My Ex Husband Cheating At My Birthday Party! He Said I Emasculated Him

37:52I said we'd be in touch. I made it very business-like, I suppose. I don't know. I just, I got out. Dinner, dinner. Lunch finished and I got out. You know, from hearing it firsthand, you know, from you, I can't imagine what that experience is, especially knowing that you were going for an entirely different reason. Any woman will tell you it's a fight or flight, isn't it? It's any woman who's been in that position where somebody's being predatory, they don't have to come with a weapon. you know it's we feel it in our gut we know immediately when we're in danger yes and this is you know i got asked to talk to talk about the music industry recently and what do you think about the sexualization of that sabrina carpenter is putting onto our young minds and i'm like well we had madonna and before that we had x y and z that that is not new what is is is not okay is the people that take advantage and it is usually these middle-aged men who are casting the dice and deciding how we are represented or when we can be cast aside and and women especially we feel that every single day without us even realizing it's just innately in us yeah yeah so you come out of hearsay and what's the next career move for you classical music go back to my roots go back to something i know would you say classical music is your first love classical music's like a leveler for me.

39:27It runs through all of us. Twinkle Twinkle is classical music. Twinkle Twinkle? Let's do it. Yes. It was taken by Mozart. It's a French nursery rhyme. Mozart developed it into Twinkle Twinkle that you know today. Wow. Yeah. Happy Birthday. It's written by two incredible women every time we sing it. Like, you know, when you think of how classical music runs through everything, it's got its own heartbeat. Pachelbel's Canon. It's written by a man called Pachelbel. It's a series of chords that every single pretty much pop song uses from oasis um all the way through to um maroon five you know there are so many different um styles that have come from what is ultimately classical music and it's just been sort of canonized by people who want to keep it in this box but mozart when he was writing I mean, if he was alive today, he wrote some of the most vulgar songs.

40:25It would make Eminem blush. Really? Yeah. You say Mozart was a grime artist. Yes. Yes. Was he? I don't know how your German is. He wrote a song called Lich Mich in dem Arsch. You can figure out what that means.

40:44Really? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. My stomach hurts all over me. So. So. Mozart wrote it. I was the one who wrote that. Yeah, he was vulgar and fun. He wrote all the operas you listen to now. They were written for people to pass the whistle test that we could all sing along to. The whistle test is something that a lot of pop artists use. So if you can whistle it, it's a hit. So they call it the whistle test. And his songs, like the Magic Flutes, they were considered pantomime at the time. They were like, just give it to the boy. So they all passed the whistle test. Yeah. All right. So then how does your television career really start?

41:27Is it I'm a Celebrity? Is that first catapult? Yeah. So I've done I'm a Celebrity twice. But the first time I did it, it just came left to field. It changed everything. I had nothing left to prove. But I think I just looked sort of just, I don't know, not very capable, I would probably say. like a bit small and dull like somebody said when I went in. And it was really nice to go in and just show that I'm tough. I am mentally extremely strong. And I don't think a lot of people probably think that. But I'm tough. So did you feel like going on to I'm a Celebrity the first time, right? I had nothing to lose.

42:08It was nothing to lose, but I have something to prove. I think I had a lot to prove to myself.

42:19everybody that knew me said don't do it bar a couple of people my best mate Lauren Lauren Laverne she said to do it did you go further in I'm a celebrity than you thought you would every single time someone picked the phone up who kept me and I couldn't believe it couldn't believe it and then when I got out it's really funny because I actually thought I was going to either get a rice commercial um because i made the rice so they kept burning the rice you know i'm asian i can i've got the rice like this i could do what are you all doing to the rice like my filipino auntie must have been like what are you doing everyone puts too much water yeah and then they then kill it yeah so i got involved you didn't think that you would get a white bikini commercial.

43:10Are you sure? I was in there with Fina Arice, who was in a program called Footballers Wives, who looks like this Amazonian goddess. And I was in there with Faith, who, bless her, I am not well endowed, but Faith got the gift. And I thought that, you know, those shower scenes, I admit, looking from the outside, looking in, they look great. But what you don't see is if they just frame out a little bit longer you've got dean gaffney and toby anastis all waiting with their razors and their soap and their towels because you're in and then you're out and the next person's in and then they're out because that that that waterfall is on and off yes they decide when you're gonna wash and when you're not yes but but now if we could talk about that scene in particular because i've noticed um a lot of online chatter about those scenes it was the most googled i was top three during that time.

44:08Okay. It was a moment. It was a moment. It was a serious moment. Yeah. Honestly, I couldn't have written that script. It was written for me. I went in with a stripy bikini and I was told moments before, you can't wear that. It's going to strobe on camera. Go and get a plain bikini. You don't even have long. Go with the researcher because you weren't allowed to meet or bump into anybody else. get the plainest bikini you can find and i went into the shop and i said i need the plainest bikini you can should we have a white bikini i owe that girl i heard that guy i have your phone you owe her a lot i do you owe her a lot yeah so you would say then that as well as everything else the rice etc contributed to you you were runner-up i came runner-up that time now runner-up on I'm a Celebrity, especially then, right?

45:03That typically catapults people to the next. Do you feel like I'm a Celebrity moved you into a different perspective with the audience? 100%. It gave me a chance to be a person again. Okay. Honestly, and it was like going to Girl Scouts. I'd never been to camp. I'd never done anything like that. So I loved every second. You hear people who are just begging to get out. I was begging to stay in. Wow, look at that. Yeah. Look at that. It was unbelievable. By the time you left I'm a Celebrity, do you feel like you had found your voice? I feel like I'd found the confidence. Oh, God, it sounds so...

45:51To be me. But I felt it was okay to actually be me. Because there was no editing, because you don't know which bits they're going to use. so you can only be yourself. Yeah. Let's think about that. What year was that? 2006. 2006. So 2006 is the first time where you thought, it's okay to be me. Yeah. Wow. From I'm a Celebrity. What deals did you actually get coming out of that? Oh, it changed everything. Did it? Yes. And I met some of the most incredible people who I still speak with all the time now. I met Twiggy. Twiggy's like a goddess. Yes, she is. Oh my God, she was so kind to me. I signed my first brand deal and it was to M &S and so I became one of the M &S girls.

46:42And honestly, you imagine walking onto set and there's your Winnie Bago and you want to talk about imposter syndrome. Yeah, it's... Modelling was never, ever on the cards. Ever. No. I built a brand before there was any celebrity brands. I had no blueprint. I know that because I looked at J-Lo. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. J-Lo was your blueprint. Yeah, absolutely. I've got the longest selling celebrity brand in the UK because I looked at J-Lo and I looked at how is she doing this? What's she doing? and it's about building the brand around you. So for a lot of people, you know, I'd just come out of I'm a Celebrity in a bikini and then I got pregnant.

47:34And for a lot of people, that would have been death knell. Yes, and I could see that you take this very seriously. Very seriously, yeah. Losing sleep, yes. You know, looking at trade routes and wondering what the price of, you know, certain fabrics are and her Brexit effects. the trade route it wasn't something you could do when i was pregnant build brands if they could have got me sent me off to the the country countryside in my in the consumption you know being pregnant how dare i be pregnant on tv i can even name the women who are around my peers who are pregnant you had holly willoughby you had davina you had spice girls you had the all saints girls they were pregnant and owning that space but it was very rare yes you know as soon as you get pregnant in the workspace, they know, well, is she going to be as reliable with, you know, that she's got a family, but they don't question the same of the guys.

48:24Right. This is true. Which is why I make sure I show up even more so because I've got a responsibility to all of the other mums. We've got to show that we can more than shoulder this. In fact, we work more effectively because we've got to be home for tea time. I'm with you. I've seen what my mother, my aunties, my grandmother in particular, but then what my wife is able to do. And it's something that I know that literally I'm not capable of doing. Hey, Paul, it's time to tell our listeners about our new show sponsor, Treat Well. Let's talk nails then. I just had my manicure and pedicure too. And for those of you who might be a bit shocked to hear this, where have you been?

49:08I get it done because think about it. My hands are always being filmed, usually more than my face. So I've got to make sure they're always looking camera ready. But honestly, this is my tri-weekly reset, and I always book through TreatWell. You probably know it. It's Europe's number one beauty booking app, where you can find five-star salons near you, and you could book 24-7, even after midnight, just from your phone. And you could see real reviews from people who've actually been. They've got so many treatments available too. Nails, facials, massages. Last week, I tried a brow lamination. Now, I'm not sure I'd do that again, but you know what?

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51:24So now, can we talk about relationships? Not my strong point, but sure. You don't feel like you're talented in this category? I'm definitely not talented. You're not talented? Okay. Can we talk about your marriage? Yeah, sure. Okay. Hey, you're a relationship expert. You could probably shine some light here. I do have many thoughts, but I'd love to hear from you first. So how would you describe your marriage? I will use his words, how he would describe it, because it's fascinating to me. I was told I emasculated him. I met my ex when I was extremely vulnerable. Reading over the diaries quite recently only goes to enforce that.

52:25Does it? 100%. Does it? What do you look at the diaries now? What was going on in your mind and in your world? I was in court with two ex-push friends at the time. I'd had one who'd got... Him and a friend had sold a photo of me for£140 ,000, which is a lot now, but take that back 25 years and do the maths. Yeah. And so with that amount of money on my head, you can imagine it was the wild west. Yes. I was heartbroken because it was my girlfriend and really angry because it was my negative. So then I then went into a new world of ownership rights. so then I was sitting in a lawyer's office and they were looking at the negatives and there's all these old men and lawyers and I'm sitting there in my ufos my baggy pants in a lawyer's meeting in that too though is you're talking about someone who was close to you who sold that so there's the betrayal yeah of those that you trusted yes but your ex-husband yeah he's like Is he security?

53:54Yeah. In essence. So is he group, band security? Yeah. Oh, band. Okay, band security. Okay, so he's working band security. You don't have a relationship with him. So then how do you begin to, how do you enter a relationship? Because it's very. Oh, it's so lame. He chucks the guy out of the building and I'm like, oh, oh, someone's protecting me. I see. Manager and management not protecting me. Ruck company not protecting me. Two exes, I'm in court. I'm with lawyers sweating all over photos of me. Really embarrassing, very humiliating.

54:33And he shows up as a hero. And I'm going to keep singing pure and simple. Yeah, yeah. Sing it right. And iron the backdrop. And iron the backdrop. Yeah. But so he, so your ex-husband, he is, he, he, he, you feel safe with him. Yes. yes he protected you physically he protected you okay yes so that becomes romantic yes does anyone know because i would imagine the band knew the band knew and it's romanticized it's like kevin costner and whitney it's like in my head it's romanticized okay i see but it didn't actually happen that way like if you put us together on paper don't have very much in common but he looked after the band.

55:24I had to really think about how I got myself into a situation where I really did lose a lot of myself. What does it say with rose-tinted glasses? Red flags just look like flags. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Were you in love with him? what I thought was that it was a savior thing I just felt safe until I realized I wasn't safe did you feel as if he ever truly loved you I would like to say yes actually what I don't know why I'd like to say yes at all because yeah what he wanted to get he got I guess okay I don't I don't know actually I actually don't No, I don't think you treat someone you love that way.

56:14Okay. So your wedding, what I find fascinating about this story is I feel as if you knew. The movie, you'd be like, no, no. Yeah. I mean, tell us about this because it feels as if you knew what was about to happen. So we'd had the biggest row, myself and my ex, and he'd gone off. Because I asked him why he wouldn't sign the prenup. So you presented a prenup to him? I asked him to sign a prenup. Wow, okay.

56:54Yes, on the night of our wedding, I asked again. Okay. I just felt something. I felt something was wrong.

57:04And he didn't want a big wedding. Like, my best mate wasn't even at my wedding. They weren't allowed to come, otherwise he wouldn't go through with it. And it was just trying to just claw, hold on to those last moments. And what was the reason that he gave to not allow your best friend to come to your wedding? It's turning into a circus. It's too many people. Too many people. I didn't want this. Okay. Now, how do you think that... What was it about what was happening that allowed you to go through? I had a six-month-old baby. I had my mother. She didn't want me to have children out of wedlock.

57:50He's Irish Catholic. I don't think his family were that happy that he'd had kids out of wedlock either. so let's bring in good old Catholicism because that'll fix it. Yeah, yeah. So it's 10 years of... On off, on off. On off, on off. He's missing for five. Well, he had like his own court deal to deal with. He was on the run. So he was on the run. He was on the run. But don't worry, I can fix him. I can fix this. So he was on the run. Yeah. You find this out that he's on the run. Yeah. And that's part of the reason why he's gone missing. The reason he was in this country he'd skipped bail and he started working here and by the time all the details and just the intricacies of what that actually entailed looked like I was I was two feet in I was just too late I was I'll stand by my man um and I did I when he um when his past caught up with him and he had to go to court.

58:56My mum and dad went, I mean, that's dark day. My mum and dad having to listen to all the details of what he'd done, it was horrible. Really, really like... It's my mum and dad. We're talking... Like, class A drugs, it was awful. Awful. Okay. So you felt something was off. Did you ever have that conversation with him? No, I walked in on him with a famous person on my birthday on a balcony. So, yeah, we had a conversation. Okay. Yes. All right. I've made peace with that situation now, but for a long time it was very difficult to see their life. Not that I would wish that on a family. I don't know.

59:43I feel conflicted, but my life literally just broke apart very, very publicly. Yes. And their life, they've managed to continue building a family brand on it. And it just felt so difficult for a long time. This is your ex's? The person I caught my ex with. The person you caught my ex with. Okay, so we can't name names, obviously. That'll definitely get your lawyers in a right old pickle. Okay. You're not giving me very much left to write my own memoirs with. My goodness. My memoirs is just going to be like, I sang pure and simple a few times. The rest. I sang pure and simple. This is on this podcast.

1:00:25See, we need to talk for a press. My message is like going, ching, ching, it's over. No, no, because you have all the names, but this is, I mean, this is a movie. Your life is a movie. I know. Your life is a movie. I know. And I actually, all I ever wanted was a really simple life, playing my piano. I really did. I was like, hopefully one day I could be in an orchestra and that'll be the best thing ever. And look at this. Yeah. So just to recount the story, before you were married, you're dating, you're in this committed relationship. You love him. Yes. You walk into a house. No, I'm in my house.

1:01:00It's my party. Your house. Yeah. Onto the balcony. And he's having sex with. Oh, they weren't having sex, but they were like unzipping each other. It's not what you think, but I'm like, it is what I think. It is. Yeah, it is. It's the first thing they both said. Okay. With a famous person. Yes. And what do you say? What do you do? Because this is the first time you caught him. I kicked everybody out of the party, including his mom and dad. They went back to Ireland and his dad said he doesn't get it from me. And I was like, okay. I just remember that it's been quite a weird thing to say.

1:01:36And then I'm assuming he apologizes to you. Yeah. He said it was the drink. It was the drink. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So these are all of these red flags that you're seeing over. It's a pretty big flag. It's a pretty big flag. I have to take some accountability. Like, you know, first and foremost to my children. My children have asked enough questions and it's never been a case of laying out my stool now. It's got to be as and when. But here's the funny thing. School mums, people who just want to gossip will go to your children before anybody else. Really? Yes. Do they? Yes. That's interesting.

1:02:12Yes. And they'll ask them questions about. Tell them facts. Facts. Yeah. So your children come back and now they can read what they like and they ask their own questions. But, you know, they've been raised by me. So. Yes. And only me. Yes. So. God, Mylene. So you went through all of this and you still went through with the wedding. Yeah. Okay. But it was the most. You say your wife's at a wedding tonight. I guarantee the wedding, most weddings kind of like, you know, they go into one. There's a format. But no one forgot this wedding because I literally cried the entire reception. Just cried. Because it wasn't really a reception.

1:02:52We kind of had to haggle our way through with the restaurant. Could we have some burgers? Put the tables together. It was just, there was no planning because I wasn't allowed to plan a wedding. All right. So you're crying because you're sad. I just was gutted. I just didn't know I was crying, but I was just gutted. Okay. It's just not how it was supposed to be. So you mentioned that it was only a few months after the wedding. Yes. That you were separated. I hired a tour manager because I couldn't find him. And I took the babies with me, took my friend with me to where I knew he was working and did a surprise.

1:03:39And I knew there'd been someone in that room.

1:03:43And that was it for you?

1:03:49Weirdly, even then... I mean, Christ. The baby was so little. Hero was so little. It was just a baby. And that was trial by papers. it was horrific in order to there is nothing you can throw at me now ever that i can't come through and i've lost babies i've been to court i've lost a house i have that divorce and what people threw and the mud that was slung and the kiss and tells and the societies like the the groups that came forward. Yes. They don't deserve to be named because they'd love it. But there was a pretty fractious group that came forward that essentially bully women. Taking them on.

1:04:49Taking all of that on. Why was the divorce so contentious? I guess because

1:05:03you know that it's that song isn't it the heart doesn't break even and so I was just catching up all the time and every time new information came my way I just couldn't believe it couldn't believe it like one pop star rang me up and she's like I think I've got your money it's in my safe i was like i think you have i don't understand he'd hidden the money because he was way way down the line you know they say you leave how many times you you know more about this than me you don't leave when you leave right you've gone already right you've gone already up to a year oh well there you go well that makes a lot of sense it's typically He'd actually got a house.

1:05:54He had a secret house that he bought already. Interesting. You don't just buy a house like that. And so when that came through, I was just reeling from it. But on the day that he decided it was over, he just pushed this little Post-it note across the table with the figure he wanted. And I just, that's when I was just, how have you figured this out? Right. So while this is happening, is he seeing his kids? Is he stepping up as a father at all? All I can say to you is I've raised my children single-handedly, financially, as a sole parent for 12 years. For 12 years. Yeah.

1:06:44One other question. This is a controversial question. Oh, there's more? This is my last question on this, but how would you answer this? How does a woman who is incredibly strong, assertive, independent, enter a relationship and stay in a relationship with a man like this? That's a really, really good question. Relationships like that, they don't happen overnight. You're right. This is one thing I know is that there are multiple pieces to the equation. There's a blueprint that we're given. We see how our parents interact or how our first caregivers interact. We begin to take that as part of the script that we're building for ourselves.

1:07:35Attachment plays a big role in this. From everything that you've told me, I'm not going to place this on you, but it sounds like you could have had more of an anxious attachment than a secure or another type of attachment. When we have anxious attachments or certain attachments, we then begin to chase people who are emotionally unavailable. That's what we look for in a partner. That actually is what we feel safe with is someone who's emotionally unavailable. That's another. Another is that when you find people who have extraordinary skill like you, you have extraordinary skill. You are an accomplished pianist.

1:08:13You are a phenomenal singer, right? You think about how you've built that. How have you done that? You've done that through hard work, through always identifying a problem and being able to do what? Fix it. Yes. So when someone enters your life that seems to be hard work, what do you do? You take that on. You say, you know what? This is a good challenge. I'm going to fix this person, right? There's what society says. Society says, you know what? You should be happy. You're getting older now. You have a partner, right? You should be happy with this partner. So you have society, what society is placing on you.

1:08:51I'm sure you have peers saying, oh, this could be good, right? This could be a great relationship. Every relationship goes through struggles. Everything goes through this, that, the other. No, but I'm angry with myself that I let that go on for so long. I wouldn't let a friend do that. And then my friends got angry because then they felt responsible. So everyone got upset. And what? But ultimately, the only thing that your friends can do is to be there to hold space for you and make you aware that they will always be there for you. But ultimately, it becomes your choice. Now, they can arm you with information.

1:09:29And then on top of that with arguments, we had the Gottmans here as guests, foremost experts in this category. They say 69 % of arguments will never be resolved. They'll never be resolved. So instead, you have to figure out how do you manage that? it's important to do that out in the open you know I tell parents and caregivers all the time one of the best things you can do for your kids is to argue in front of them then show them how to repair and show them how to repair absolutely yeah you're right yeah we try to do that I mean that's something that needs to be learnt I can definitely do with getting better at that because I'm very good move on get on with this I should learn to sit and being uncomfortable i don't know i can't figure out if i was really strong because i stayed and i that was the strength that's all i had or if i wasn't strong enough and i've had to get strong and this is it now and what i'm doing retrospectively is ensuring no one else goes through it yes so that's how you reconcile it maybe maybe that's how i that's my what forgiveness looks like okay to myself forgiveness to yourself there you go so you're giving yourself grace Maybe.

1:10:41Okay. I'm Asian. We don't do any of this serapitized chat. It's just... We bury it. We file it under do not open. Crack on. And you see the importance of opening it. Right. The only way to heal from it is to address it. Right. So you got through the divorce by doing what? Raw dogging it. I literally, like, one day at a time, choosing when I could slide down walls and radiators and then putting a smile on my face when the kids were back around. Well, can we talk about one man that I believe has not tried to bring you down? But he's tried to bring you up. Okay. He's tried to support you. He's uplifted you, right?

1:11:26Okay. So let's talk about Simon. Okay. At what point do you meet Simon? And how many years after your divorce? Four and a half years later. Okay. And my girlfriend rang me up and she said, oh, I've got this, just hear me out, hear me out. I know you don't want to meet anybody. I know you've sworn off men forever, but... Had you sworn off men forever? Yes. Yes. I was like, I am not going to be handing out houses. Yeah. So you had sworn off men. Yeah. You have no interest, but a friend calls you up and says this guy, I'm going to set you up with this guy it turns out, I wasn't really I don't know, either she didn't explain it very well or I wasn't listening she said oh he's really nice, he's a family guy he's got these kids, she's giving you all the details and then later down the line this is important because it turns out she'd never met him so it was such a blind date what had happened is my girlfriend was having a chat with her girlfriend and she's like, I've got this friend.

1:12:33And she's like, I've got this friend. Let's put them together. And it was just as random as that. It was so blind. Wow, but you trusted in the process, the friendship group. Well, I was actually having a really good time in my life. Really good time. And just enjoy, actually, just suddenly realising that actually, you know, dare I say, I won't go as far as to say thank you, but I had a new lease of life and I was enjoying where I was. but my girlfriend she'd she she trusted her instincts and I trusted nothing and it was really weird because the builder had said in this new house what kind of um well what kind of door handles do you want in the kitchen and I just burst into tears because it had been like question after question after question mental load going through everything so publicly trying to keep the girls buoyant and myself solvent and i just ran out i just ran out of answers and my girlfriend she'd run out of money with her ivf and we just struck up this conversation where she said i'll do your house so you don't have to think of any more answers than you do my ivf and i'm like okay done okay so i didn't make any more decisions in the house she did the colors the walls and the door handles and I got her IVF.

1:13:56She got her baby. I got my home. It was amazing. And it was things like that. It's brilliant. She still holds me to like babysitting now. But I realized I just couldn't make decisions. I'd run out. I had fatigue. I had just like scroll fatigue. And so my friend, my other friend said, look, I've got this guy and I'm like, sure. All right. This is going to sound like an obscure question, but how long was your first date? It's about five hours, but that could have been the painkillers. See, I'm telling you, Molly, this is a theory I have running. So how long did you think it was going to be? We emptied out the bar.

1:14:32So it was five hours, but how long did you think it was going to be when you got there? A burger. I thought I had my burger. That would be nice. Less than an hour, right? Yeah, I guess, yeah. So the length of time over how long you thought the date was going to be, that I think is a strong indication of how successful these relationships go or how strong these relationships become. So my first date with my wife, it was supposed to be like two hours maybe. It was like a movie. It ended up being – A movie on your first date? Yeah. Well, we knew each other. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So we were friends. Weird that you'd sit next to each other and say nothing for two hours.

1:15:11Yeah. What was the movie? We were already – it was Hellraiser. so this is a long story but we were already good friends she was dating my friend yeah so i kind of slid on in there yeah but it was only supposed to be like a movie and it turned into a movie and then dinner and then dinner and going to the beach and then a long walk on the beach and basically turned into like, you know, almost overnight where we were. Where's the friend? Where's the friend? The friend was, I set him up. I sent him somewhere. I'm terrible. I'm diabolical. But long story short, you're ruining my theory. I've got to get it out.

1:15:55Where's the guy? Yeah, I sent him away. I sent him away. Literally, I sent him in my car too. It was crazy. But long story short, this date that you had, it was five hours. You closed down the place you were in. So at the end of that evening, did you feel as if you were with someone that had the potential of being a partner? I didn't actually look at it. I didn't really look at it too deeply, actually. It was just. He's literally the opposite of everything I think is my type. Not that I know what my type is. I mean, it's like, it's quite a variation on a scale, I suppose. It's quite, there's a lot of breadth, but he just, yeah, I thought maybe that's going to be a good thing, that someone else had made a decision for me.

1:16:47Okay, okay. So at what point in that relationship did you feel as if, oh my goodness, this could be my partner?

1:16:59I guess it was actually his kindness

1:17:08because he, when you get to know him, he's, I suppose, in the conventional sense of like alpha, he's a sailor, he's very sporty, but that's not something that he really puts out there like that. So I think he actually seems really quite soft, really, really kind. That's what I really felt was very, very different. Okay. Okay. Now, he had, was it one child, two children? Two children. Two children. Okay. So was that part of your conversation? Very much so. I said, are you Jennifer or are you Ben Affleck? Because that was pretty out there at the time. And he said, unfortunately, I'm Jennifer. And I was like, that's good, because I couldn't be with a guy who'd left his family like that.

1:17:58That was it. Wow. Wow. At what point do you realize, okay, we can actually, or we should, be partners, and that means that our families must also blend together? um it's not it's not a metaphor but he showed me his lightsaber collection and he's a star wars fan okay and i'm like okay you're a geek and then he had all his photos up where he was staying at the time all these pictures of his kids drawings and one of them fell down when i walked in one of them and i picked it up and it's just little things it's the little things that I wasn't familiar with and you know just taking care of things putting them back up onto the wall giving them that value yes and it's things like that that I just really really liked and he came to the house we'd been seeing each other for quite some time and Ava had her suspicions because she's so switched on she came down the stairs and she just said to him um would you prefer dolphins or sharks she's like she's obsessed with marine biology and he was like well dolphins of course and that was it it was just he was just that was it and he was i'd say that was the moment we actually had quite a moment quite recently because it's the same set of stairs she came down he was standing in the exact same place for her prom It was like...

1:19:31Yeah. So now, do your children see Simon as dad? I mean, the first time I heard them call him dad, kind of jarred because it was just, it was so uneventful. It wasn't like fanfares. There's a saying, and it has been so misused, and I think it's down to misogyny, and it's blood is thicker than water. But it's not the full saying. Yeah, this is true. Yeah. The blood of the covenants is thicker than the water of the womb. But that's my life daily. My friends have showed up more than many members of my family have. and Sim might not be their dad by blood. Not one person has mentioned it. He's their dad because he's showed up.

1:20:35He runs the dad's race. He does the mundane things, the dad jobs. He does the homework. He does the conventional dad things and that's incredible for the girls to have. And it's a funny one as well, because I've also thought, how does he discipline them? Can he discipline them? But then there's been times where one of them is literally hanging off a climbing frame and he's had to step in and no one questioned it. So that's been a huge relief not to hear, you're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do. I've had friends experience. Exactly. Exactly. So how does it feel in this stage in life to have your family?

1:21:21Well, it's a different shape, my family now, because we also have my son and getting him was no mean feat. So we, along the way to get, we call him Snoopy. His name's Apollo, but all the children collectively made a list of names that they thought the baby would be. And one of them was Snoop Dogg. and I actually said, don't be so ridiculous. We can't call the baby Snoop Dogg, and it turns out that's the name that has stuck. Oh, my goodness. Snoopy. After Snoop Dogg. One of the kids just said, we had a whole list, and everyone had to say, everyone add to the list. Whenever you think of a name, and it's quite a motley list when you read it.

1:22:03I mean, I can imagine if... It went left to field. I mean, they were just so little, all of them. So all four kids just kept adding to this list, and I was like, Snoop Dogg is not going to happen. But Snoop Dogg has happened. And it just became a running joke. And now he's Snoopy. So look at this. So you have this family, right? Now, you just mentioned it wasn't an easy feat to get to Snoop. Snoopy. To get a little Snoopy. Right. Can we talk about that? Sure. It's something that I've talked about a lot because of my campaigning. But when you actually break down where it came from, I mean, it's...

1:22:43Every year it felt I was pregnant and every year I lost a baby.

1:22:51Every year? Pretty much, yeah. So it took us a good four years. You know, the campaigning, I see women who never got their rainbow baby and it's such infinite braveness. it's another level of bravery. Yes. They said never got their rainbow baby. He's my rainbow baby. That term, rainbow baby. What is that term? That's a baby at the end of the rainbow. It's the one that binds you all back together. So I don't know if you're aware of something called microchimerism. No. So this is what just gave me so much peace because I struggle with the terminology around miscarriage and women's health anyway.

1:23:36and the rainbow that you know it's like the pot of gold the baby at the end of the rainbow that's where the term comes from but microchimerism is a system whereby your body and your baby you recalibrate constantly okay so your baby uses their cells to bolster your main arteries now it sounds very scientific but at the heart of it is actually something really beautiful so So your baby cells go to your brain, your kidneys, your liver, your heart. Wow, wow. And yours in turn go to theirs. And I think the most unforgiving part of miscarriage is when you lose a child, there's nothing. You don't have photos, you don't have memories, you don't have, do you remember that joke they used to tell?

1:24:19Do you remember their laugh, their smile? You have nothing. It's a void. And you have something worse. You have what ifs or I wonder ifs. Oh, they'd be starting school now. I wonder if they'd have your eyes. I wonder what kind of mother I'd be. It's just torture. But my quachymerism really did give me something, and I know it's helped a lot of mothers that I've spoken to about it. Because when mothers subsequently died, they did autopsies. They found those cells still in the mother's bodies. Incredible. So that idea that they leave you, they never leave you, they never go. They're always with you.

1:24:54You just carry them literally in your heart. Yes. Yeah, that's incredible. But the real magic is our little Snoopy, our little rainbow baby. He carries all of us. He has Ava's cells, hero's cells, mine, Sims, and the four babies that went before him. Look at that. So I'm like, oh. Yes. He's like, oh my God, I'm like, come here. You get an extra hug. Yeah, I get every single one of us in him. Yes, that's incredible. It's just amazing to know that I still have them somewhere and he has them all. Yes. So that kind of research is so important because it's just purgatory when you lose a child. You don't have anywhere to go, just wandering.

1:25:45Can we talk about the psychological impact on both the mother but also the father? because I don't hear much about the impact on the father. I did a documentary and I included Sim because of that reason to hear what he had to say because he said, you were in so much grief, I didn't feel that I could add to your sorrow, which is a kind thing to do, but also you end up doing this dance of avoidance around each other. so I wouldn't want to raise it with him just in case he wasn't thinking about it but then I was always thinking about it so he didn't want to raise it with me in case it triggered me and then we just that's it dancing around each other we live in a country where women's health is so neglected call it misogyny call it just carelessness call it whatever you like but viagra is on its sixth generation of being improved whereby we can't even get progesterone still in many cases.

1:26:47So women have this sort of silent battle constantly and we don't have any data collected on it. So we don't officially know how many it happens to. We don't know why it happens, where it happens. So I make my girls fill everything in on an app because I could have done with that information and so could my sister and it turns out my auntie. So it is in the family. Is it related? We don't know. But I'm not going to let my kids go through that. This is a great point because in the research I saw that it was roughly 15 % of pregnancies will end in a miscarriage. But to your point... We don't know.

1:27:23Who's decided that? We don't know. No. You know what? That's just a figure you read because in the States you need to wait for two consecutive miscarriages before you get any kind of medical intervention. But here in the UK you have to wait for three. So there's no logical or medical continuity of care, nor is there any reason as to why that is. which when they tested my miscarriages, which in...

1:27:52Some people don't like the scientific side behind it and they throw more of their faith behind it. I wanted to know what had happened. But the trisomies that came back were all unrelated. So I could wait for 10 miscarriages going by that way of thinking and still not get anywhere. It's so cruel. So one should be enough to set those alarms going and that's what I'm working on. Yes. So your work, your advocacy, should I say, has resulted in you having an MBE. Yep. Which, congratulations. Thank you. I took all the family down there. Oh, my gosh. It was wild. It was wild. I would imagine, yeah, parents.

1:28:30It was wild. Yes, yes. But to have the little rainbow baby, to have him standing there and I just saw him just in my periphery and his two other mums, his two sisters. And honestly, after everything we've been through, there is no good ending in order to make change. It doesn't happen in clinics. It happens in Westminster. So I had to get into Westminster. Suddenly I'm a campaigner and never thought I would be on that path. But now I have more reason than ever because I can't with all of the knowledge I have and all the experience and knowing what I know and knowing that I can make a big noise about it and have those really uncomfortable conversations with the people that want to shut the door in my face and have done countless times.

1:29:13Yes. You're not going to beat a mother on this. Yes. Because I've got something far greater and more important to fight for. So you're campaigning work. Yeah. How has that changed laws and legislation? So bereavement law has just come forward, which means that you're not sick anymore at work if you have a miscarriage or lose a baby. be it means that you now can take what everyone else um is um entitled to which is bereavement leave and you don't have to then have the uncomfortable conversation right and explain oh i'm i'm gonna have to say i'm sick i'm gonna have to get a doctor's note but i'm actually not sick i'm grieving and you don't have to then explain that you're trying for a child which could then in certain cases thwart where you are in your work you've got enough to worry about as it is eventually we'll get to the point where you get paid bereavement leave but this is enough just to start to get a foot on the rung yes and to be able to say the word miscarriage in the palace of windsor knowing of those those queens that we've learned about in history who lost their babies and the many men and women who've served in the castle and maybe the royals themselves but in between you know within those four walls to have the king address miscarriage to have westminster address miscarriage that's where change happens they have to sign the honor off and that's how you can use your name and your privilege and your power it doesn't have to be to get the best table or the club entry it can actually change laws look at that look at that Look at your life, Molly.

1:30:54Yeah, I mean, I didn't plan on campaigning when I was lying in that bed after. I think the second miscarriage was worse than the first. I didn't think that was possible. I didn't even think that was possible. But the first, I thought, was just awful, one of those things that people dismiss. And the second one was that I thought, we have a problem. And by three and four, I was tailspinning. I didn't even know who I was. It just was hell-bent on trying to keep a baby but didn't know how to. And also, you talk about men, you know, chefs, cyclists, they're more susceptible. We're now learning. So if you take a hot bath, if you're in front of a fire, if you're in saunas, if you're drinking alcohol, too much caffeine, if you drive a lorry, long distance drivers, cyclists, I think I said, but yeah, we're learning now that the men's contribution is far greater.

1:31:49their blueprint actually builds the placenta. So when the placenta fails or there's struggles there, actually it might be whatever's happened with the DNA, the contribution of the male as well. So as we learn that, then we now have to realise, hang on a minute, this is not just the woman's responsibility. If you want to have your healthy child, you have to take on as much of, I would say, burden, privilege, however you want to approach this. But your health plays as big a role, if not in certain, certain cases more if you're not looking after yourself and your wife is yes you're you're creating a problem for her but before it was always the woman's problem yes the woman's guilt what did you do what did you eat it's one of those things it happened to a granny it just happens it's god's will god needed another angel all of these platitudes that you just don't want i just want my baby yes yes yes you know when you think about uh where we're going with with the laws one thing I saw is in the U.S., these laws don't exist in most states.

1:32:50And the U.K. now is leading most countries in this particular embreedment around miscarriage. So what I find fascinating, and I'm sure you probably did not look at this, is that your work has now contributed to what has become a country that is leading the way around how we look at miscarriage. Think about how profound that is. The ancestors will be happy. Think about that for a second. That's your work. That's your work. It's incredible. It's incredible. When I started investigating this, I thought, okay, well, surely other countries do this. Surely this is done all over the world. But it's not.

1:33:39I think what's interesting is as soon as you start you know taking the carpet up you're like oh okay I thought it was just this floorboard that just needed a little bit of a as soon as you start playing around the floorboards they all start unsettling but that's a great place to be because fundamentally then we're going to have better foundations but where we are now is I'm working with Tommy's and the Miscarriage Association and this is the thing it's collaborative I'm not here alone I get to be the striker and I get to be the annoying one at parliament that doesn't take no for an answer because I don't want to be a politician so whilst many of them are career politicians it doesn't bother me who I upset I just need the result stop these women suffering and working at home and blaming themselves and living in this torturous life that they can't move on from their grief they need answers and you're in a position to give them.

1:34:35Tommy's working on something called a graded model of care, which is being trialled at the minute. And if we can pass that, now we're talking, it means you won't have to wait for three consecutive miscarriages. It means you'll get 24-7 care. So the EPUs, the early pregnancy units, won't then become a postcode lottery. So you might be in Scotland miscarrying at five o 'clock, but the EPU closed at one. And you might not even be able to get any EPU help over the weekend. Why is this important? well, why are women miscarrying an A &E? You're sending them through triage. They're having to miscarry and be triaged by someone who has to decide, is a non-beating heart of a baby more important than a bloody nose or a heart attack?

1:35:15I mean, we're playing literal God here. Whereas progesterone, which many doctors don't feel they have the speciality to prescribe, it turns out they are allowed to do that now. So we could save 8 ,500 babies just by passing that message along and giving that confidence to practitioners that they don't need to have the specialized expertise of miscarriage care and fundamentally data collection. I know where you bought your trainers. I know where you ate your dinner last week. I know all these facts about you and how your algorithm works. But I don't know if or how many babies you've lost and why.

1:35:55How? Yeah, I see that this is this campaign work is this is life's work for you. This is something that you're going to continue to do year after year. So I filmed the miscarriage doc and they were like, do you think you're going to continue with this campaigning now? And I was like, absolutely not. Having been in Westminster and just seeing how shoddy and ineffective and slow and just it's just it's almost like kicking the tin can down the road. I see so many politicians realise, oh, I'm going to have to do something here. And I just thought, I can't. And here I am because I see that. Yes, yes.

1:36:36And I can't. I should because every time I talk about miscarriage, I have to rip the band-aid off again. And I have to think of that scan. The image of my baby floating down into the dark will haunt me till the day I die. Like so many women don't get to see their baby. I saw my baby. So many women don't get to hold their babies. But the women I speak to, that's their lasting memory. Dead babies. How are we okay with this? How are we letting women 20 ,000 every month? I said this to the king, 20 ,000. And he said, is it that number? And I said, we don't know. We estimated it because we have no data.

1:37:19But this is why your work must continue. And this is why you must continue this. Last question for you. Everyone gets this question. When you think about your incredible life, varied life. It's pretty varied. Nuanced life. Yeah. And all the conversations you've had. Which single conversation stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn?

1:37:52Gosh, to choose one conversation feels like I'd be doing a disservice to the others. I'd say the one most recently is the one with the king for miscarriage. Because I think there's so many people who search for the glory and this one was bigger than me. This one was I felt a coast standing on the shoulders of giants I had a message to deliver and I had to deliver the voices that never got heard like that's a very very powerful message that needs to be heard and hasn't been heard once yet in front of a living monarch and that's literally that's like dominoes it's kickstarted something it's really big and I said it to my daughters you you're bearing witness you're going to see that you know the maths one one of you if this happens to you or to your friends you'll know that your village your mom you've saw you saw that you can make the difference so that conversation might be you know the five minutes I had there but you saw the build-up to what it took and why it happens and that it's in your power to do the same thing the big conversations they're actually the small ones that matter the most and they're the ones that you have with your children when your apps that you wiped out for the day and they suddenly come alive at night and they tell you whatever's been on their mind or whatever's worrying them suddenly like 11 12 o 'clock at night and you just suddenly realize you know what all those things I could never necessarily go to my parents with the fact that they can say those things yes we all try to just progress each generation on that little bit more don't we and i could never have said some of the things that my kids say to me to my mom and dad but what they say to me i feel really proud of yes yes and how safe they feel yeah to come to you yeah because i still think i'm the uncoolest person ever.

1:40:09But then they all bring their friends over when there's, I don't know, trouble at mill. They all come over and suddenly, my mum will help you. And I'm like, be cool. Hold it down. Mylene, you were beyond cool. You're beyond cool. Me, you think so. Which makes you uncool too. No. Now we're uncool and in court. No, no, no, no, no, no. I have many. You know, I have at least three people in Dodge to tell me this. Yay! Go back to the nail bar. But truly, truly, truly, you know, throughout this conversation, what I continually went back to in my mind is that whole phrase of to whom much is given, much is required.

1:40:47Right. And I think that often what people do is they've been given just something incredible, but they don't deliver on it. Right. They don't deliver on it. They're not accountable. They don't step up. They don't do it. every time you have been required to step beyond who you are in life. Every time you've leveled up. In every experience that we've talked about, you've leveled up. And you know what's so beautiful about your story is that you could see how every step along the way, you've gained a stronger voice. The Mylene at 10, 11, 12, who didn't have a voice, in her late teens who didn't have a voice, in her early 20s who didn't even have a voice, right?

1:41:42You look at the Mylene today, it's a Mylene that has such a powerful voice. She is leading change throughout the world. Hear me roar. It's profound. I'm trying. It's profound. Thank you. I got, so seven years ago when I got here, I kept hearing this phrase that people would throw out, national treasure. And I kept asking people, like, what does that mean? Who is a national treasure? And they point to different people and I'd say, is that person really a national treasure? Like, what? Mylene, you are a national treasure. You are. Very kind of you. You are a national. That's me, Twiggy and Dame Joan Collins.

1:42:25If I could ever join the upper average lawns. No, you are. Thank you. You are. And I think that's something that you should just sit with for a second and think about all that you've done, but more so all the change that you're creating, those trees, the shade, and all those kids that are going to sit underneath it and say, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Outstanding. Yeah. You're outstanding. So thank you. Thank you. Mylene class. we needed to talk and we talked. I could literally talk to Mylene for three days straight without going to sleep, like just having conversation. I find her incredible.

1:43:14And when I said that she's a national treasure, I meant it. There's a part that will stay on my heart forever. And that's when Mylene was talking about miscarriages, the DNA and the genetics of the child who doesn't survive, still breaks away and spreads throughout the body of the mother, kind of maps to her brain and to her heart and to other areas of her body. So that child is with the mother forever. It was mind-blowing to hear that. That's a nugget that many mothers and fathers don't know and could provide a level of comfort that many need. for someone who is known for her musical talents, her voice, to have found her voice as an adult later in life, I think is interesting.

1:44:15And it's something that should be inspiring to many people who feel as if they haven't yet found their voice. having Snoopy is what allowed her to do all of this work. And now Mylene is one of the leading voices, if not the leading voice on not just miscarriage, but in particular the bereavement around miscarriage. And she has literally changed law in the UK and I believe will indirectly change laws around the world. Thank you.