Olivia Bowen: I Lost Myself After Giving Birth & What Love Island Never Showed

39:33Oh, my gosh. Teach you. I'm not going to key your car. I'm going to go on TV. So, really, that was your top motivation? It was part of the motivation because I remember watching it and thinking, oh, my God, these women look so good. They're so confident. Like, how much fun is that just to go to a villa, be around a pool, flirt with boys? Like, I didn't have any of that in me. I had none of that in my locker at all. So, I was like, oh, my God, that would be really cool. And then we split up. And then I saw the application. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to do it. I mean, I was so scared.

40:05And I had none of the confidence that I probably showed. I just faked it. Just faked it. Faked it. Fake it till you make it. So is it playing out in your mind, though, your battles with depression and anxiety? Is any of that playing out or no? So before I went into Love Island, I kind of had a bit more of a handle on things. Like I said, I was living in my own flat. There was times where I was very, very down. But at that point, I'd got on my up again. So I was okay again. I was very rollercoaster person. Okay. Because I guess I kept trying to get my emotions in check. They'd get in check. Then I'd be all right.

40:39And then I'd come back. And at that time that went into Love Island, I was all right as a person goes. Probably still dealing with it deep down. And I still had my disordered eating where I couldn't eat in front of people. And when I went into Love Island, it was like exposure therapy. Love Island pretty much cured me as a person in that respect for my disordered eating. I didn't come out with it. It went. Because you were forced to have, in order to eat, you had to eat in front of people. Yeah, we had lunchtime and dinnertime where all the food was laid out on the table. Brain in mind, I've been there for six weeks so I don't have a choice.

41:19I won't eat unless I just get the hell on with it. And I remember sitting at the table and being like, I can't do it. So for the first couple of weeks, I would get other people to fill my plate for me. I'd always choose the food that not necessarily I liked, but was nearer someone else. So they put it on a plate and then I'd just eat that. In private? I ate at the table. Okay. So that was already something that I was like, oh my God, this is like, what am I doing? How am I doing this? But it was still the putting on the plate thing. So I always thought to myself, these people must think I'm such a princess because I won't serve my own food and no one knows why.

41:56And then I think it just got to a point where I did it. I sat there and I put food on my own plate because I had to, because I couldn't keep asking other people to fill my plate up. So I just did it. And then once I did it once, I did it again and then again and again. And then it wasn't even a thing. It literally changed my life just from being, I don't know whether it was the age or the people or maybe the confidence I got from realising that I just walked into a TV show, stood on my own and did this, I can plate myself up some food. Yes. It kind of was a whole realisation in Love Island. And I think that's why Love Island will always be so in my heart because I do feel like they changed my life, not only my career, I met the love of my life, my disordered eating went from being there so for me personally they just hold a very special place because it was a turnaround point for me no it was um i mean i i think that that is something that most people i should say most but a lot of people that i talk to will reflect on their time on a reality series and have an issue with it right but i think that's incredible that you look back and say no this was this changed my life for the better when you look at what was happening season two of love island so um when i look at um when i look at what was happening i find it to be really interesting compared to today because a lot of alcohol was flowing the cigarettes were cigarettes you could smoke when i went in there oh really you started yeah i didn't smoke which I had always on and off smoked, but I wasn't smoking at that period.

43:52But because I think all the chats went down in the smoking area, it was just a natural. I think they made the right decision by going, look, guys, let's not. Because you did just kind of do it because everyone else was in there and you're having a chat and all of the drama would be in the smoking area. Okay. There was a lot of sex happening on camera. That's what I mean about the glamour modelling woman. She was kind of right. she kind of foreshadowed that really because can we talk about it because you you technically had sex on camera but it wasn't aired right yeah oh yeah because i yeah so there's back then there's like they would show quite a bit and it was it's not really like that now not at all but i think again because it was like them early days like do you remember towie geordie shore like x on the beach it was all very full-on yes and love island was no different whereas now it's completely different um but if me and alex had this theory where if you just took all your clothes off and had sex on top of the covers they can't air it luckily we were right we would have been you know it would have been a different story if it was wrong but they would only show so much so we were we thought we were pretty clever yeah all right so can i ask though in that what was the reason for not just having sex under the covers and then having them air it oh we did do that too she's 23 let her live that's true i mean you you were you're having a good time yeah Yeah, this is the thing in Love Island.

45:33People always say to me, do you regret that? And I can't say I do because I was 22. I'd gone through all of that throughout my teenage years and a rubbish relationship to get in there and literally fall in love with someone head over heels. What do you do when you really love someone? And you're 22, you're having the best time. You can't help yourself. It is what it is. It is what it is. So do you believe you fell in love on Love Island? Yeah, for sure. Okay. Do you believe Alex fell in love on Love Island? Yeah. He told me he loved me on the final privately. I never heard it. But apparently he always tells his story.

46:19He's told it a few times. But it was the we'd got so the start of our relationship. We did not want to fall in love. Like I went in there scorned lover, as you say, like didn't want that. I wanted to have fun. I wanted to just be myself. I just wanted a different situation. And he came in, wanted to be Jack the lad. And we both. At the minute we started speaking to each other, I think we knew that there was something really special. But we were in denial, such denial, because this wasn't a place that you found love. Reality TV was not a place that you found love, and it was all rainbows, unicorns.

47:00So we kind of fought it, and we were like, it's a holiday romance. Let's just deal with how it is. We'll just try and be like friends with benefits vibes. Did not happen, obviously. I'm sat here with two kids married, and you're later. But we really tried to combat it at first, I think, because we were both a bit scared. He'd had bad relationships prior. He'd had someone who treated him like crap. Look at that. Look at that. Did you... Were you considering or concerned with what you perceived the public was viewing or thinking about you and Alex together? Not at the time. When I was in there, I didn't really...

47:41I think I was concerned that he didn't like me. I think I thought... Because he was such a nice guy and he looks like he's been carved by the gods. Where I'd been so mistreated in my past, I was like, how quite possibly could someone like this even like me? So I didn't believe it then. And I think that contributed to just all the arguments and stuff we had in there. And then I thought in turn the public would also think I was not good enough for him. That's what you thought while you were in Love Island. Which then actually became true, because everyone told me that when I come out that I was not good enough and I was punching and...

48:26That was hard. Oh my gosh. And that we have to talk about. Can I show you something first that I think may put a smile on your face? All right, ready? All right, here we go. Ready? The letter was... I can't think it's any worth it. Oh, no, no, this is good. Ready? What is happening in this?

48:50Look at that. I think she's called Renesmee, actually. Alex was a big fan of Twilight, so he was like, I'm going to call you baby Renesmee. Okay. Baby Renesmee. Did you, I mean, think about this. In that moment, what do you think the chances, and in that moment, right, what do you think the chances were that you were going to marry that guy and have not one but two of those babies with him? well for one i dropped the baby in the pool in love island so the thought of me being a mother was like no she and i was a nightmare i was like what is this thing and secondly i just don't think i ever truly believe that he like loved me even probably until he proposed no you didn't think so that he loved me you didn't think so no you didn't believe you were good enough for him no partly because of well I'd say 80 percent because of the way I'd been treated and the way I'd treated myself prior and 20 percent because when I come out I was inundated with comments that he can do better than me like I'm not good enough for him you're punching was the main one and that is probably one of the hardest things I'm not saying my job is hard it's not it's mentally quite taxing sometimes because when people in the public start tapping into the things that you already tap into for yourself it's quite difficult yes they just reinstated everything that this was a big truly this is a big shock to me is when i'm doing this research for you coming in i had not seen love island 2016 i was in the states you know hanging out in the I hope you haven't watched it recently.

50:40But in looking at the coverage, the news coverage, when you got out, that's exactly what it was. And then I look at a photo. Can I hold this photo? I look at this photo. How do you think she looks? Well, she's got better boobs than I have now. I'm speaking to children, that's for sure. Yeah, but honestly, how do you think she looks? I don't know. She's normal, I guess. Oh, she looks normal. Yeah. All right. like a normal person she looks like a normal person does she look beautiful

51:12I don't know that's interesting you probably you don't think she looks beautiful

51:24because how does he look how does he look handsome as always handsome as always so he looks beautiful right but But that's interesting that when you look at this photo, you don't see what I see and what so many people see. Because I looked at this photo and I said, oh, my gosh, she's beautiful. Yeah, he's a good-looking guy. She's beautiful. This makes all the sense in the world to me. It just didn't make sense to anyone else. It really, really got to me. thought. Let's talk about that because when you come off of Love Island, it is now being seen by, I think, on average over 1.4 million people per episode.

52:11It's now the most talked about show in the UK. I would imagine that because the first series wasn't as popular, the producers couldn't prep you they didn't know what the response was going to be like when you got out but what was that what was it like in terms of were you followed were there lots of articles what was happening so obviously when i went in like i said when we first started talking wasn't i wasn't even in the scene in s6 like because towie was like prevalent at that point i didn't know anyone from towie even though everyone thinks everyone knows someone from towie i didn't at that point um i do now and they're a lovely but i didn't and i wasn't in the scene and i my family were scared for me going in we're not that kind of like i never wanted to be famous it wasn't that it was just a change of scenery for me so to come out and i even it felt to you overnight that your life completely did a 180 we got to the airport and there was tens of thousands of people like waiting for you wanting pictures of you filming you like screaming your name like how do you even comprehend that from being just you and not like normal I guess to that is something you can never prepare no matter what someone would have said to me the producers were like yeah your life could change they prepared you as much they could but even they I don't think realised that it would do that overnight and I remember my inbox we had thousands of messages in our inbox brands wanting to work with us management trying to get in contact with us my mum was not sleeping every night because she was having people email her about wanting to want to manage Olivia I can get her this I can give her this money bearing in mind I'd never had money and I just just left my government funded flat to go into Love Island to now coming out and my mum's getting offers of like thousands and thousands of pounds how are you men to react to that how are you men are like i mean it's incredible but it's a lot and i'm just so glad i had alex by my side because we used to speak about it for hours and hours like after the people had gone home and we were just in bed like he was my absolute rock still is he was your safe space so then when you first see these articles yeah so the article come out yeah what what can you even And take me back to the very first article that you recall.

54:47What was the headline? What did it say? A lot of them were about people commenting about my appearance and comparing it with Alex. And saying that we wouldn't last. And is this couple going to last? Are they going to cheat? It was all just not very nice. um it wasn't necessarily the articles it was more the comments it was more because my instagram hadn't been that kind of place and I think when we come out we had like 300 ,000 followers we're now I now have nearly three million so it was growing and growing but the immediate attention on how we looked as a couple was what got me and I didn't expect it because I just never had anyone comment on that before no like never had anyone say oh never from an outside perspective never had so many people tell me that i was not good enough for someone that i was with even though i knew he loved me to have so many and he was getting sent like naked pictures like on snapchat and we used to i mean we used to laugh about it like he used to show me and he'd be like i got another pair of boobs in my snapchat and we'd like we were like so comfortable but when you're on your own at night in the choir that's when things start to get to you and it just it just really ate away every day there'd be another one it wasn't just like oh it happened for a few days it would be every day like I'd have a inbox privately like why is Alex with you you're nothing special or how are you with someone like Alex it doesn't make sense did you believe it yeah yeah it's probably contributed to again like the eating thing came back not in the same way but i just wouldn't eat because it's just the stress isn't it so i then lost loads of weight and in the midst of me being a size six not eating i was being called fat on articles.

56:55I was like, all of that, like, it just didn't make sense. What was happening between you and Alex that kept you together, right? Because this is such a stressful period. You have, you're being inundated from people saying, hey, he's going to leave you, he's already cheating, that kind of thing. But what was some of that work that was happening? because you and Alex became one of, there were, what, two couples that came from season two that are still together to this day. It's a rarity for a couple to go on a reality TV show or for two people to meet on a reality TV show. You do. Stay together.

57:36So what was the work that was happening behind closed doors that we didn't see? That was all on Al. That was all Alex, pretty much. I'm not one to not give myself props, but he held it down for us because he would take and take and take the shit that I gave him that man is something else and I don't tell him enough but he literally held it down for us because he like he would always defend himself he would facetime me whenever he was out he would text me constantly he would call me he did everything physically possible for me to feel okay meanwhile i'm just like screaming like ah what is coming on like he was the solid rock like that guy has a heart of gold and like now obviously we're 10 years into a relationship so like we annoy the hell out of each other but you have to give him his props he stood by my side and did all the work right why do you think he did that he just i admit it now he literally worshipped me and I don't know why why yes well I was gonna ask you what why do you what do you think it is what do you think it is about you that that that lit him up so much I don't know I don't know I don't know we're just I feel like we're an anomaly I feel like we were just meant to be together it was just the right time the right place I do feel like in Love Island we had these challenges that actually then set us up a lot of people always talk to me and they're like oh my god love island was so harsh with the challenges you went through i'm like they were like real life challenges but in a controlled environment and actually they helped us work each other out and respect each other in a different way but he has he's so impatient on day-to-day tasks but he's so patient with me and i i don't know i think we just complement each other And I know he knows I've got his back and I know he's got mine.

59:40Yeah, I know it. Can I also talk about one other thing about Love Island? I have to show you. It's another surprise. Oh, God. You're ready? No. Ever. Not without what you've been pulling out. Do you not like these surprises, Liv? No, I do. I just, I'm not in control. Oh, that's what it is. I've learned this. That's what it is. All right, so ready. I have a surprise. I'm gonna hold this for you. Okay. And I want you to just watch and listen. Oh no, I'm too scared. Are you ready?

1:00:14Right, my darling Olivia, I have been thinking about how to send this message to you, but it's physically impossible to put into words how much I love you and adore you and how much you're a part of me. I just, I don't think it's possible for people to understand that you're literally a part of my soul. like you are my wife you're my sister i don't know you were just you're just like you're my soul sister it was from the moment that i walked into that love island villa and i became your third girl sorry alex um i stole you she's about to share i mean my probably my favorite memory remember when um we were on the bed no is she going to talk about oh when she was talking about I'm fucking thinking we completely forgot there's no cameras.

1:01:05And me and you just had a moment. And then we were walking in the room. We're hiding from people walking into the room. Remember that story? No, that's the funny one. I've just never loved someone more. And I've never actually looked up to anyone so much as a couple as you and Alex. You are so special to me, both of you. You and your amazing family. And I love you so much. And I'm so sorry that you were stuck with me for the rest of your life. But you can never get rid of me. because I literally adore you more than life itself. She's always abroad. She's always abroad, this woman. Yeah, I was going to say.

1:01:41It's so funny because we are still so close. She was my bridesmaid. She is the only friend, really, that I've kept from Love Island except for my husband. So everyone knows this is? Tina. And you met her on Love Island. Love Island, season two. That was your first time meeting her? Yeah. And we just clicked. she's like she's just a little ball of like buzzy energy happiness like you know when you can feel someone's aura she just she's so i don't know she's so pure and people don't see her the way i see her and i think she says the same about me but she become my little third wheel like because she never kind of found anyone in there she was always with me and alex but we just immediately got on and even though our lives are completely different like she's always I message her I'm like oh do you want to meet up she's I'm in Australia like okay and then I message her I should I beef her at the minute but I adore the bones of her and she's one of them friends it doesn't matter where you are it doesn't matter what point of life you're at like we're at complete ends of the spectrum and we just still adore each other yes I could see it I could see it I could I mean, I could see that you have like a social circle that came from Love Island.

1:03:02Obviously, you have a husband that came from Love Island. And then you have a whole community of people who fell in love with you, you know. So clearly there were hard times that came as a result of Love Island. But then there was lots of ups. Oh my God, so many. When you think about the moments that were just surreal that you can't believe you had an opportunity to do or people you were able to meet. What stands out to you? Career-wise, it's just the amount of brands. Like, so Quiz is a high street brand. I was the first person to get a deal with a high street brand ever. Wow, look at that. So that's, it doesn't, again, it doesn't comprehend.

1:03:44And also I was the first one to go present on this morning. And then I got my own show, Second Chance Dresses, which I presented, which I was the first person to do that so I guess those kind of moments are crazy and actually Second Chance Dresses got funnily in New York got commissioned by Netflix to go and start up in New York and I was about to go and present the second series it was all sorted I got my visa we had the boutique met all the contributors was ready to go flight was booked and covid hit so i was about to be a presenter on a show on netflix oh my goodness and yeah covid hit and it never happened yeah but even getting to that i don't feel upset about it because even getting to that point i'm like we had it it wasn't my fault we lost it i had it and that was incredible but my life would have been so different me and Alex would have had to move to New York wow okay so you were thinking about moving we were we were you were we were getting an apartment in New York Alex was gonna come out and be out for most of the time but then come back um would have I had kids I don't know because my life just would have gone in a completely different trajectory which the butterfly effect is like yeah it's real it's a real thing yeah wow so that was one of the most incredible things even though it didn't happen but aside from that just the amount of people i've been able to meet and connect with that i never would have been able to so we did a trek i heard of copperfield it was a charity oh yes um and i'm familiar uh you and alex went together yes and yes we we trekked the mountains for three days with cancer survivors people in remission people that weren't in remission women that were just the most inspiring like I would struggle being getting up a mountain and then I would be next to someone who was in remission or and I was like get the hell up that mountain like I've met so many people from different walks of life that have taught me so much that I never would have been able to learn if I hadn't have been on that show and done what we did I mean clearly the Love Island changed the trajectory of of your life uh and you said So when you came off of Love Island, something that is just percolating for me is you didn't believe that Alex loved you.

1:06:14And it wasn't until you said he proposed. That was part of the reason he did it. Really? Yeah, tell me about this. So I don't actually know. So it was six months after we came out of Love Island. So we'd only known each other six months and he proposed. So it was very, like, quick. That's quick. Yeah. And I understand now why people were like, you're doing that for show, because that isn't quite quick off a reality show. Like, come on, people are not going to believe that because I didn't even believe it. So how can I expect anyone else to? But he knew I was really, really struggling with believing that because of after all the comments and even just my self-confidence issues and disbelief in myself.

1:06:56I think he thought, how the hell am I going to get this woman to believe me? he was like right well I've got to propose to her so he bought the ring I think only a few months after Love Island and then we were going he was going to propose the year after when we went to Italy but we planned a last minute trip to New York and he thought well that's the perfect opportunity so he just did it there perfect place to do it he genuinely was like I partly did it because you need to take me seriously. Like, a woman, what more can I do? It's at your kind of, like, at his wits' end of trying, how do you prove to someone that really doesn't want to listen?

1:07:36Wow. I think that finally, yeah, finally hit me. That did it. So can I ask then, is you two get married? Is this whole rumor about you spending$20 ,000 on flowers... It's a rumor, it's a rumor. Is that... Did you really spend$20 ,000? Yeah, it was really stupid. I think it was 15 in the end. Okay. It's fine. 15 is fine. It's fine. So this was a big wedding. This was a pricey wedding. It was a big wedding. But at that point, we were like what you'd probably consider like new money. Like we'd never experienced money before. To have Love Island change your life and then you earn this. You don't know what to do with it and you're a bit stupid.

1:08:15We're young. So, yeah. The flowers, the wedding, it was all very dramatic. you you you you just you just went went well but for two people that were 20 i was 23 24 when i got married and i didn't actually have that much money i'd like just got on this bit of money and i was like let's go let's spend it on a wedding it was a very now i look back i'm like oh i'll never do that now yeah like you're lucky if i buy flowers from tesco like yes i we very quickly learned And that's not how to do things. And then as we grew up a little bit and we had our little mad moment with money, we started investing in property.

1:08:58And I feel like I don't even recognize that girl. Like I would never be so frivolous. Right. So can I say that wedding? Right. So I went through the roster, all the people who were at the wedding. And I requested a letter from one person. Oh, God. From that letter. I mean, from that wedding. Oh, God. And I have it right here. Oh, not a letter. I have another letter. Oh, God, who's this from? This is a letter from someone who was at that wedding who has something to tell you. Oh, God. Is it okay? I think so. If you could... Do I need another tissue? If you could read that. Storing my tissues. Oh, wait, you have a lot of tissues down there.

1:09:44Oh, no, I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no. Oh, yeah, sorry. I mean... That's so British. I'm sorry for being sorry. I apologise for a chair I walked into the other day. It's ridiculous behaviour. I don't...

1:10:03Who's that? You have to read it. You have to read it before you figure it out. Olivia, where do I even start? You really are a special human. You are strong, selfless, caring, independent, and literally the most beautiful woman. I could go on, but I'll be here all day. When we met, I think I always knew... Oh, is it Ali? I think I always knew it was meant to be us forever. Some people say we have a perfect relationship, but I don't think we do, and I think that's the true beauty of it. We have ups and downs, but we constantly speak our minds and grow from each situation we grow through. Like I always say, we aren't quitters, and that's why we stuck with each other till the very end.

1:10:43You're an incredible wife and an even better mother. Abel and Sienna, I'm so lucky to have you. Oh my God, what's my voice doing? I feel honored to call you my wife and I'm so proud of all you have accomplished, including this book. And I know there is more to come. I love you always and forever.

1:11:04How sweet is he? I think he really does love you. Yeah, well, 10 years later, I should really start believing that. You should believe it. I love Alex's love for you. and I love your love for him. But in particular, and I'm going to give that to you, is in this research I was, you know, for you coming in, I was looking at lots of clips of the two of you. And what I noticed what he does, he does something that I feel like the most caring partners do for their spouse. And he defers to you. and he holds eye contact with you. He defers to you. And he, you know, when I say he defers to you, is if there's a question being asked, he will almost pause, stop, hold back.

1:12:04And he's like, no, Liv's got this, right? She's got us. And you can see this level of trust that he has. And I think that your love is beautiful. It's beautiful. Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive? I feel like every time I get back from traveling overseas, I'm hit with a jaw-dropping phone bill. It's actually why I'm excited to try our new partner, Saley, an eSIM app that gives you a safe and secure data connection anytime you travel and, most importantly, without any expensive roaming charges. Now, quite a few of my team used Salee during our last trip to LA, and all accounts were that it was reliable and easy to set up.

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1:13:20Details are in the episode description. Just a heads up, this next section includes discussion of baby loss. If this is a difficult topic for you, please watch with care. now we have to talk about the children and we have to talk about the process of pregnancy as well so you said you could have gone to new york but it was covid so it was only 2022 right when you fell pregnant for the first time can you walk me through that pregnancy because there were a lot of lessons that you learned from it yeah able obviously the first pregnancy like either your first of absolutely everything they teach you so many different things to your second it's a completely different process and i think it's quite a well-known thing for people that know me that i would did not want kids i didn't really look at myself as a mother or a wife i I think just through the many years of telling myself that I would never get that, I'd started to believe it.

1:14:29And I guess if you don't expect it for yourself when you don't get it, it's not embarrassing. That was always my thought process. So I was like, right, well, we'll just shun that and I'll just believe I'm not getting it. And then no one can laugh at me when I don't get it. And obviously then I met Alex and I still was kind of in that way that I didn't want to be a mother. But there was like a turning point, which you'll read about in the book for us. and we were very very lucky to get pregnant quite quickly but even when i got pregnant i was really concerned obviously having that predisposition with depression and anxiety and eating i was worried that all the changes would really send me to a place i didn't want to be and then they did it did in the end um my pregnancy was beautiful amazing like just the best i was wasn't it was the perfect pregnancy really like he was perfect and i loved being pregnant it was the after that really just i think it was the birth was very traumatic and then the aftermath was the worst part the postpartum was the worst part okay now you mentioned the birth was traumatic can you can you tell us what was so traumatic and also what did you then learn from that birth so it was just it was very very long i think it was about 38 hours in the end 38 hours it was very long uh the not the it was from the from the contractions like ramping up it was till birth it was 38 hours it was pretty long um and it's hard to like recollect it and also because i think sienna's birth was even worse now i look at abel's i'm I'm like, I'll actually take that.

1:16:26So, but it was hard. It was a very long birth. I just wouldn't dilate. And we were just laying in hospital for hours and hours. And then eventually we were taken down to have a C-section. But I ended up dilating at the last minute. And he was pulled out with forceps. But he wasn't breathing. um and i think i was just so unprepared i was just very unprepared for everything when you're a first time mom you have absolutely no clue it is that it is so scary but so exciting at the same time i think i was just unprepared for everything that was going to happen and it felt more traumatic at the time because i was obviously not in a very good place okay so it really deterred me and scared me because of the place I was in um but he was a perfect perfect little baby boy it's just when they don't come out breathing and he'd swallowed meconium and they were trying to get him it was just a lot and Alex didn't do of it very well he's a big softie so he really really struggled and I think where we'd spent six years just us two having a new little person and a new life it really threw us we were not ready for it at all it was the biggest life change I mean after love island look we were at events nearly every night we were abroad nearly every week it was and then the contrast of motherhood having this little baby rely on you, attach to you, that responsibility and dealing with the whole idea that I wasn't fit to be a mother at all.

1:18:17I really didn't want to be called mum. I had this, I remember I wrote something in my notes and it was that I just didn't like the term mum and I wouldn't be referred to as mum. I don't want anyone to call me a mum or be mummy or I just hated it. Really had an issue with it. Do you, when you reflect back, do you know why? I think it's because I told myself for such a long time that I wasn't going to be a mum and I wasn't worthy of being someone's mum. So to then have that title just felt really, I didn't deserve it. Like I couldn't have that. And I think also I never wanted to be put into a box.

1:19:02I think once you become a mum, people want to put you into this tiny little box and tell you that that's all that you are and you can't do this and you can't have a career and you can't do. You're just not looked at the same. And I was like, I don't want to change. I don't want to be a mumsy mum. But really, there's nothing wrong with being a mumsy mum. It's pretty cool. It's actually lovely. I love being a mumsy mum. I say it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's pretty cool. You know, Liv, you just said something that actually I haven't heard you talk about, which I love that you brought it up. And that is not only did you have a hard time post-pregnancy, but Alex had a hard time.

1:19:41And that's often not talked about. Now, there's the baby blues and there's postnatal. Do you feel like did you both suffer with that? And I'll just define it for everyone. And so baby blues is a term used to describe a feeling of being down, tearful, anxious after giving birth. Yeah. But that typically lasts for just about two weeks, right? Whereas postnatal depression, that's prolonged depression. It develops gradually. It's hard to recognize. Some parents may avoid talking about it because they worry they'll be judged for not coping or appearing that they're not happy. and it's normally framed just for women.

1:20:27Yeah. But men go through it just as, well, I'm sorry, not just as much, but there's a percentage of men that go through it. Do you believe that you went through those phases and do you think Alex went through those phases? I think Alex had a really tough time changing his lifestyle because he was also an only child and he didn't have a dad growing up. So for him to then have to be completely selfless and become a dad himself when he's never had one, how do you even do that? Interesting. So I think he really struggled and I think he struggled because I struggled. How earlier I said he was the rock, he was the one that did the work.

1:21:13Where he couldn't hold us up, I couldn't hold us up either. So no one was holding us up. We were kind of just hanging on. And I ended up going to therapy for the traumatic birth. But then I just slowly spiralled. I got obsessed with these apps. You know, they have these apps for logging, like, babies' poos and wheeze and sleeps and feeds. And it's just so encompassing. Like, there's so much on Instagram about what kind of mum you need to be and what you need to do. and you're doing this wrong and you've not fed them this and oh like there's just so much it consumes you it consumed me maybe not everyone but it consumed me and I would log absolutely everything in this app and if I missed like a wee or a poo I'd spike I'd go I'd spiral I'd have like acute anxiety over the smallest things and then I just lost myself completely I was didn't speak didn't want to get out of bed didn't want to brush my teeth And then they're the signs I know.

1:22:18And I know them well because of previous. And then I think when Alex caught wind of that, he just felt useless because he's never had to deal with that before. So then in turn, that made him feel so inadequate. And he was already struggling trying to work out what kind of dad he wanted to be. Right. So it was so hard on the both of us. And that's when, post-ABLE, that's when my bad habits came back. and Alex found out and that is one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with because the shame of someone who loves you so much seeing you treat yourself so badly like I'll never forget the look on his face when he saw what I did to myself and I'll never forgive myself for letting him go through that with me It was a really, really hard time.

1:23:19What was the conversation that you two have after he sees what's happened to you? For someone that's never experienced, like, self-harm or... It's really hard to understand why you would do that. But I just remember him, like, picking me up and, like, cradling me like a baby. And, like, squeezing me so tight. Never felt a hug like it.

1:23:45I think that's when I was like, that's enough. It was his reaction that this is enough. This cannot happen again. This cannot be the way that we live. We're just coexisting. And it's got to this point, which is never something I thought I would get to in my 30s, my 29. I'd never thought that I would be there again where I was when I was 14, not in a million years. so at that point we were like right we love each other to death we are never letting each other go this is not going to be us like we both need therapy he went to therapy i went to therapy separately he got help i got help we started to talk again we started to be honest again we started to be truthful even when it was really hard to hear what the other person thought about each other Yes.

1:24:39Or it was hard. It was really, really difficult. But fast forward from that to after Sienna's birth. It was more traumatic. We lost a baby in the process. We've never been closer. We've never been more for each other. because and if we can talk about your um your your second pregnancy because um with child loss i've found to be this interesting duality where it can either break a couple up uh or or pull you closer together so what what happened because this is a unique circumstance so vanishing twin syndrome is something I'd never heard of before and a lot of people hadn't and I think that was the most shocking thing about it is when I started to after it happened I started to google it and look into it and it's a really common thing it's about 30 percent um basically what happens is you have a twin pregnancy and one of the babies for whatever reason doesn't survive you don't lose it so it's not like a miscarriage where sometimes you bleed and you have pain it quite literally vanishes so in my case we lost the baby around nine weeks but Sienna was absolutely fine she was thriving but the other baby had no heartbeat but it was still in there and it was still in there until I was 19 weeks and then it disappeared into my body so it no pain no bleeding no signs but then it just goes and it's the most weird thing to get your head around because you're so happy you've got that little baby like thriving in there growing perfectly and then you see the baby that's passed is still in there every scan you have every time you talk about it it's it's really hard to get your head around because you're so happy for one moment and then you see that and you're so sad.

1:26:49How do you reconcile that? Because I was, this was one of my biggest questions coming into this, is because my wife and I have gone through a miscarriage, but we didn't have twins, right? So all of the focus is on mourning the loss of one child. But here you have, with vanishing twin syndrome, as you mentioned, and the stats to your point is you nailed the stats, but then there's another one to drop on you, which I don't know if you know this one, is so 15 to 35 % of all twin pregnancies go through vanishing twin syndrome, right? However, it affects one half of pregnancies with three or more embryos.

1:27:37So think about that. When you are carrying triplets, vanishing twin syndrome happens one half of the time. So it's super, once again, something super prevalent that I had not heard about until your case. I mean, we're human. We can't know everything. So until someone you know speaks about it, you won't. So when we first initially went for the scan, we were over the moon. We were scared, obviously, but we were over the moon and we were planning for two babies. We looked at cars. We considered their rooms. Like from that point on, we were having two children. so even though it was still very early we felt the loss quite heavily because we'd prepared we're very positive try and be very positive people so we were just preparing all the good things and then we found out like that nine weeks and he was immediately in bits crying I would just went silent numb and he was in bits for a couple of days I was like it's fine we'll get like really just quite normal and then the tables turned and he was fine and I again just went into that state of like don't want to get up in the morning don't want to brush my hair don't want to talk don't and the one thing that made all the difference is talking about it publicly because when I went on Loose Women and I did Fabulous Magazine as I mentioned earlier the the thousands thousands of women in my inbox saying I have never been so validated I've never felt so seen I've never felt so carried by someone else I've never spoke about this to anyone I'm so glad you've like it was so hard for me to talk about it and I didn't know how it would come across like oh she's on tv she's got makeup on she's chatting about it was never about that it was about connecting to other women that reaction alone is why I feel so confident in speaking about the disordered eating and self harming now because all of those people that then confided in me and now we have this group that have this I don't know newfound sense of like team even in the audience in loose women there was a woman who was 65 she came up to me after she said I had that and I didn't even know until you spoke about it and that was 40 years ago and I was like it blew my mind that just by little old me saying something like I'm no guru I'm no I have not got everything worked out I think it was quite clear to see but just by me saying something the impact it has had is so worthwhile.

1:30:16And I really hope that the book does the same for the other issues that I've experienced that I hope give people something to hold on to. Oh, yes. No, no, it will. I mean, just this conversation, you know, the more we talk about the challenges that we've gone through in life, the more other people feel seen. Okay to do it. It's the shame. And okay to talk about it. shame like it feels shameful to speak about out loud maybe it's the stiff upper lip again like but for us it feels like oh my god you shouldn't say that out loud like people think you're want you're wanting attention or victimizing yourself or you're not but you're not but you're not so so then coming out of your second then pregnancy you then are blessed with a beautiful girl uh who from what i understand your girl is your sunshine child but you still have a sunset yeah so when i got connected with a couple of charities um for baby loss like tommy's footprints there's a few that are really amazing um i saw a little quote and this is how great it is just to follow a charity even if you feel like you can't reach out to a charity they do amazing work and by reaching out honestly they would give you so many tools i actually am going to reach out to And when the time comes, I need to speak to Sienna about the fact that she's not she has a twin.

1:31:41I want her to know. Obviously, it's in the public. So I need to tell at some point, but I don't know how. So I will be reaching out to the charity to help me with that. But they had this quote and it was that apparently when you lose a twin, that's your sunset baby. And then the twin that you have is your sunrise baby. And I like I that really resonated with me because I love sunsets. So we have that little quote in Sienna's nursery under her cot. So none of us can see it, but you know it's there. It's beautiful. Which I really love. She is just, I absolutely adore. I think when you go through that and you like deal with loss, you appreciate it so, so much more.

1:32:23And you shouldn't have to go through that to appreciate life, but you do. Right. Anytime, if we're missing with a parent, we miss a month. The next month we get is even more precious. So good, yeah. So last photo I want to show you. You ready? Yeah. All right. I want you to tell me what this photo means to you.

1:32:50I knew you were going to put something like that. This is everything, isn't it? What does that mean to you? And if you can tell us what's happening in that. So this is when we brought Sienna home. and I literally sat in bed for the first time, just all four of us. And actually Alex's mum was with us because obviously the birth that I had with Sienna was even worse. She came and it was like our little knight in shining armour. She brought us all home and she took this picture. It's just like safety, isn't it? It's the bed that I was talking about earlier. They're just all in the bed. They're just all there.

1:33:31It's just so cute. Oh, she's so tiny.

1:33:40I remember the one thing that went through my head with the birth with Sienna, a bit triggering. But I had a really bad hemorrhage. And the one thing I remember feeling is I've got my little boy at home waiting for me to come home and I'm not going to make it home because I've decided to have another baby like the guilt was unreal I remember that fit like that like so clear in my head thinking what have you done you've you're so selfish you've gone had another baby and now you're gonna die in childbirth and you're not gonna see your son how selfish are you that's like the one thing I thought I just thought about him being at home and thinking like you're never gonna see them again so then to get home and like be in that safe space with them both you just feel like you've won the lottery like yes even if he is crazy i tell you what they all are aren't they is i've got two crazy ones i've got two real crazy ones big brother oh my goodness yeah i um you know uh We only have a few more minutes.

1:34:55There's so many questions. There's so many different areas that I'd like to go to. But one that I have to, I have to, is I have to go back to identity and image today. Because what I find to be so profound is when I showed you that photo of yourself and Alex at Love Island. you have a hard time talking about how you looked in that moment so when you look at yourself in the mirror today Liv what do you see I can't lie I still struggle but the overriding feeling is like you're a powerhouse like especially after writing the book and reliving everything you think in the babies the births the motherhood being a wife having a career usually you look at yourself in a different way like you've you've created life you've made a life for yourself and regardless what happens you just keep going you don't really look at how you look anymore you kind of look at how you feel and I look at myself I see myself so differently I struggle with body image still, but I'm getting there.

1:36:17And I think we've twisted the narrative of fitness is more about how it makes me feel. And after having two kids, you want to be in the gym. It's actually easier to lift heavy weights. Yes. For me, I'm just trying to twist that narrative. And I think it's always going to be a work in progress for me because of all of the stuff beforehand. But I am so grateful for my body of what it's done for me. I am lucky to be here. I have an amazing family. I have a husband that loves me. I have beautiful children. I have a support network of friends, family. Online is like another family to me. Like, I wouldn't be where I am without them.

1:36:59I wouldn't have come out and said what I've said today or in my book without them. How can I look in the mirror and think anything otherwise? Exactly this. You know what strikes me to be so interesting is I have these amazing conversations with so many public figures who are adored and so many people place you all on these pedestals, right? But it's not until you come and you sit that we see the pain and we hear how long you've lived with the pain. And when I hear these stories, my level of respect and admiration grows even more because you kept going. Yeah. Throughout the pain. Yeah. You never stopped.

1:37:53And that's the reason why your father loves you so much and your mother loves you so much and Alex loves you so much and so many people love you so much is it's the resilience that you have to keep getting up and fighting through the pain. And that's something that I hope that you continue to do time and time again. And then most importantly, and I find myself now saying this often, but this definitely applies to you, is you have to give yourself grace. Yeah. You really do. Already when you're saying this, I'm like, yeah, but people have it so much worse. Let's not. But see, but that's not what it is.

1:38:31It's that you have to understand that what you went through, what you've told me is a percentage of what you've gone through. Yeah. And that was hard. It was hard. So regardless of what anyone else is going through, what you went through was hard. Yeah. And because it was hard, you then created these adaptive strategies to regulate your emotion. And you did what you thought was best. So all of these things that you're doing to yourself physically, that you're telling yourself, you were doing that because you thought that was the right thing to do. So therefore, you have to give yourself grace.

1:39:16Yeah. All of these moments, like in the hospital, that will always stay with me. Yeah. When you said that, I've got to get home to my little boy. It's something that makes me tear up even someone else saying that. Oh, yeah. I think every parent, every parent. No. That stays with me. But that is you saying, you know what? I have responsibilities. And this has been my through line when I think about you is I think you've been incredibly responsible. And I'm sure you're going to look back and say, no, I'm the most irresponsible person ever, Paul. But no, no, no. When it's the things that matter, you step up.

1:40:02You have shown incredible love and loyalty to those around you. You've been incredibly resilient, right? You are the OG of the OGs, right? You are a badass any way you define it. You have to truly walk with that, right? And that's not being – that's not having overinflated ego. Those are just facts. That makes me uncomfortable. They're just facts. But I appreciate you. They're just facts. They're just facts. Can I ask you one last question before we get out here? You've had some amazing conversations throughout your life. When you think about the most memorable conversation, who was it with and what did you learn?

1:40:59I've got two in my head. One I already told you about with my mom because I think that's been one of the biggest impacts on my life. and two with my son able purely saying that he loves me because when you hear that little person that you created outwardly freely willingly telling you that they love you when you've doubted yourself for so long it's like the most purest thing you'll ever hear and I think that just changes you as a person it changes your brain chemistry hearing someone so purely love you freely as a little kid just so amazing and I can't wait for Sienna to say the same and then I'd probably say that would be my second love it love it uh i've heard a lot of uh well i've asked a final question to all of our guests you're the first person to give that as an answer and i love that just your child simply saying i love you it's the little thing right there you go less is more this is more thank you so much Liv, I appreciate having this time with you.

1:42:24Me too. It's been amazing. Honestly, I feel so honored to be here. Thank you so much. Can I give you all these gifts? Yes. All these letters. Oh my God, I'm going to immediately ring my dad and be like, how dare you make me cry that much?

1:42:39Liv, if you look at Liv's Instagram, she has almost 3 million people who follow her. You see these photos and videos of what many people would presume is someone living their best life and full of joy. And there's no doubt she has lots of joy in her life. But based on this conversation, also lots of pain. We need to get rid of this stiff upper lip. And that's not just UK. I think that's around the world. There is a thought that if you don't talk about the thing, the thing just goes away. but that's not what happens. It's kind of like if you have weeds in your garden. If you don't talk about the weeds, they'll just go away.

1:43:27No, they'll grow and grow and grow and sooner or later overtake your garden. It's important to talk about those moments openly with our loved ones because every time we talk about them, there's a new discovery. And that discovery can lead to the relief of the pain or relief of the grief. and ultimately talking about it is the healthiest thing we can do. On Love Island, I feel like Harry was gaslighting other people. We could all see what he was doing. Are you in love with him? Shut the f*** up. You haven't got a halo around your head either. Going through high school, the beauty standard was blonde, blue eyes, fake tan, and I was right at the bottom of the barrel.

1:44:12And I really, really, really liked the boy. It was my first kiss. But he was like racist. He went to EDL March, but then there was a great shift. In beauty standards... What are you thinking you'll do? I wanted to go on Love Island. North South Asian female has been on that show and not been booted off. That might have helped insecure little me. If I might have seen someone who looks remotely like me from the media. So these are the main characters in Shakira's world. Meg, we didn't see eye to eye. Ben, I think it was a difficult concept For him to understand, he wasn't what I was looking for.

1:44:48And Harry, that's my villa fella. That's your villa fella. Um... Was there actually a divide? I was crying to my chaperone. I'm not gonna be anyone's type. They're gonna fancy the blue-eyed blondies. It's gonna be like high school all over again. You left as one of the most followed Love Islanders. You came in second place. Shakira, you are very impressive. On Love Island, is there any moment the audience didn't see that might surprise them? You