Oti Mabuse & Marius Iepure: The Real Cost Of Putting Our Careers First!

29:54Okay, I'm coming from Germany for three hours. So then I was flying to Stansted, fetching a rental car one time, driving to Blackpool. I was in the evening, 11, 12 o 'clock in Blackpool, 6 o 'clock or 5 o 'clock in the morning. I had to drive back to Stansted and fly back to Nuremberg. And we were literally together like three, four hours. And she was like, I have to sleep. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's just cuddle for a few hours and then I'm going back. And that was it. So you did all that travel for three hours of cuddle. Yeah. And then you were back. Why do you say it like that? For energy. It was cuddling.

30:29It really was. No, no. I say it like that because some people would say, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Other people would say. No, I mean, I was not 20 anymore. I knew what a relationship takes and obviously coaching kids and people. and I knew how important consistency is. Just to see each other for a few hours a week keeps you going. Miss a few weeks and you see what's happening. Yes, yes, absolutely. Those three hours are very, very heavy hours for a relationship. At what point do you two decide that marriage is what you want? Because from what I understand is that, O.T., marriage wasn't always a goal of yours.

31:15Not when I was that age. I was, how old was I? 23. I always wanted to. Yeah, I think we, as little girls, you have plans for your life. You know, I think when I was eight, I would have told you by the age of 24, I want four kids. I want to be married and I want a house in Pretoria. And then you get to 21 and you're like, I'm not ready. We were together already two years. and for me, after two years, it felt like this is taking long. It's either we get married or we don't. And we kept talking about it for a long time and he was the one who was like, I'm not... We didn't talk for a long time. For a long time, a few months.

31:53I mean, we were together for two years. Yes. I mean, we were just in the summer maybe that we were talking about and then I asked you end of the summer. Yes, but why did we do it? We did it because we felt like doing it, obviously. That's it. That's right. I felt like it. You know what? I would argue that subconsciously something else was going on. So you were together for two years on average and then you proposed. Yes. Okay. So there's interesting research. I didn't realize it was two years. Okay. This may blow your mind. All right. Now the divorce rate is what right now around the world? Roughly 50%.

32:32Yeah. Right. Tough. tough. However, if you look at those who were engaged for two years and got married, you know what their divorce rate is? Much lower. It's like 20%. When you go through roughly two years, you'll go through highs in your life. You're going to get the job. You're going to win the tournament, right? You're going to go through lows. You're going to lose the job. You're going to lose the tournament. You may lose a family member. And the question is, is does your partner show up for you in the same way when you're up high or when you're down low or when you're in between. You get a chance to see what in psychology is called low neuroticism, right?

33:14They're not reacting drastically to the ups and downs. And this is what we innately are seeking in a partner is someone who's going to be solid for us. And I found that interesting that you said it was two years and we just kind of felt like it shows that you know your instincts are good you know you have great instincts in any relationship there are downs there's there's tough moments especially when we're contemplating marriage right that's where we start to evaluate okay who is this person what do you think was the most challenging moment that you had going into marriage i think i was in a process where I had to change from my old ways of expressing maybe, of being imperative, that macho type of guy, which it's quite common into the dance world, you know.

34:02So you have to realize that that's not okay and that you have to, I think it's more the outside many times. So you're just trying to be rough as a man and trying to be tough and to be the guy that has the saying, you know what I mean? That type of mentality. Macho man. Yeah. Yeah, which is very common. Very common. Or it was. I think nowadays now it's developed a lot. What is an example of this? Because this is something that comes up a lot in relationships. Yeah. And many people don't want to change. So what was an example of you being, you know, Macho. Too macho. Actually, also nowadays in bottom dancing.

34:40So leading is usually men, the men. Or let's say we have a lot of same-sex couples nowadays as well, which is amazing. And the stronger one leads the weaker one. That's more or less. Or the bigger one is the smaller one. You could put it like that. So then the man was leading the lady, which was the man is telling the lady what to do because he has to lead. But the problem is we were leading more with talking and less with doing. And then obviously you don't realize because not that the men are the smartest. Yeah, it's also the culture of Latin and ballroom, really, which has been going on for years and it's still going on where the man is the one who holds the power.

35:22So if a couple is great, it's because the man led it to be like that. If there's money to come in, it goes through the man and then he will decide whether to share it with the woman. Not all the time, but it's the culture. Even now when we talk about decision making. Because you take the decision into the performance, into the leading, into the dance. And obviously you just transport the same idea into the normal life and into the relationship. And I think that we have to see where we are good at, we are not. So be a good leader on the floor, but maybe be a good follower outside the floor. And that's a difficult task.

36:06Now, Maury is talking about being macho in one area of the relationship, which is him on the dance floor, but not necessarily in other areas. It's very important to understand because what he's in essence saying is that he has his boundaries around the areas of the relationship that he wants to lead. But he's also willing to accept other areas where he will not be the leader. This in modern definition is really called an egalitarian relationship. And this is something that's considered to be more of a modern relationship that many people want to get to a place of. And that is, how do I lead in certain areas and have my partner lead in certain areas?

36:45The best way to do this is first understand the areas you want to lead in. And that means that you have to understand who you are, what your values are, what your goals are, what your boundaries are. And you have to be willing to talk about it. This is why having these conversations around the roles in the relationship are so important before the full-on committed relationship begins. These are the conversations we need to be having when we are dating because it's the answers to these conversations that allow us to know if we have the right partner. Okay, let's go back to where Marius is talking about being a strong leader on the dance floor and how he doesn't necessarily take that same role in the relationship.

37:29This is interesting. So how did your trust and communication in your personal life, what did you learn from your dancing? We learned that he leads in the studio. And that's where it stays. No, it's a mixture. It's a mixture. Now we mix it up. It's the balance. I like to say that and she's like, ah, balance is rubbish. Of course, sometimes you have to lose the balance in order to have fun and to thrive in something because otherwise if you're too balanced, it can be a little bit static. So you have to go to dynamic balance then. But yeah, I think that was what we started to see. How much can we go out of balance in one side?

38:14I mean, when she was doing Strictly, she was focused 24-7 on the show in order to, in her position, especially as a woman to weigh Strictly is not the easiest job in the world. And she had to go out of balance, I say that. And then I had to balance her when she came home. Yeah, I think it's the roles that had to change, like who's leading and what. And I think in the beginning, it would always be typically, like I said, the culture would be the man. But we had to learn that there are moments where I will lead and there are moments where he will lead. There are moments where I don't have the capacity to do it or I'm too exhausted and he has to step up.

38:55And the same thing for me. And not to necessarily fall into gender roles, but into leadership roles that work for us. Yes, yes. It's exactly how we do now with our child. It's the same. It's very, very disturbing to see when I'm traveling with her alone that people are watching. I mean, weirdly, why is only the father with the child, where is the mother? And I'm like, are you serious? Yeah. Do you really think that I'm so incompetent in dealing with a child as a father? Yeah. I'm like, wow. But we also had to, we had our own discussion where we were talking about mother instinct. Because he's like to me, you have a mother instinct.

39:40I'm like, yeah, but that is investment. That is time. That's an excuse, actually. Yeah, and I was like, that means, you're saying to me, I have to do most of the stuff, and you don't have to because you don't have this instinct that has been told to everyone. But if you spend enough time with her, and you hear the different cries, and you see when she needs to eat, you will have your father instinct. And we should just take away mother and father and just call it instinct. You will have it, but don't just lump it on me and say, oh, well, you can do this because of your mom. I was like, no, I had to learn.

40:12And I don't want to learn and teach you. I'd rather we both learn at it together. And we've worked on it. And it's amazing where I'm just like, if I'm working, if I'm promoting our tour, if I'm doing something and I have a week of back-to-back work, he can take the baby. and travel the world, and I'll still be okay with that it's okay. And if anybody goes, but you're the mama, I'm like, yeah, but he's the papa. Yes. We were both in this together. And it's great. It's really nice. And for me, it's really beautiful to see she doesn't want anyone on this planet but this man. Oh, really? This guy is water.

40:51He's food. He is everything. And I love that. You know, he is her first love and he has these instincts. He knows when she's hungry. He knows when she needs to sleep. He knows her sleeping schedule and we stick to it and we stick to it as a team. And again, it's leading. When does he lead? And when do I lead? If he's got the baby, I can carry the bags and wash and clean or do my work. If I've got her, he can do the same thing. Yeah, that's teamwork. Teamwork. You know, and also that is, I think, a prime definition of an interdependent relationship where you're not dependent on each other. You're not independent.

41:34Right. What you are is you're working as a team. It's give and take. It's back and forth. And it seems like you have that down. And it's because of the communication. Right. Now, when you got married, you were married in. Well, you were married in Denmark. Yes. But you were both living in Germany at the time. So at what point did you decide to move from Germany to the UK? Because I got Strictly Come Dancing. So I did Strictly Germany for one year and I was scouted, discovered a few months later. And within three months, I had moved to the UK. 2015. 2015. 2015. Yeah, and initially we were not, we hadn't fully 100 % moved to the UK because you never know.

42:20Sometimes you can get fired, sometimes you're not good enough. So I was still living in two countries. And you don't know if you would really like it. Yes. Because you have to just test it. It's a new culture, it's a new life. So I moved over and because he had built like 15 years worth of relationships and dance schools and dance kids, I didn't expect him to just up and leave everything and come with me. So we still very much lived in different countries and we would do the back and forth until I would say lockdown, really, where we had to just decide. This is, this is the, I mean, we couldn't travel.

42:57Actually, our studio, we planned to open our studio in April 2020. In the UK? Yeah, in the UK. And then March came the first lockdown and we postponed it for September. And then we started actually with Strictly having a studio. They rehearsed in our space. And then this is how we opened the studio in September. Yeah, September 2020. We're four years now, yeah. Okay. So now this must have been a huge decision. Oh, my gosh. That's another life. That's another part. Yes. It's the same thing when I moved to Germany. So he was very, very supportive. He was like, go for it. This is an amazing opportunity.

43:39This is fantastic. You just never know. You know, just go for it. My family were like, no. Really? Yeah. Why? Because, again, I'm doing something that's never been done before. I'm moving to another country. I don't have the protection of my sister. I don't have any family. I don't have anyone except my husband. And you being the smaller, the younger sister. And I'm the baby. I'm the baby of the family. So for them, that was also another, we don't approve of this move. And it was another, I'm still going to do what I want. I see you don't listen to anybody No one And I realized actually after having the baby And it's something that I feel myself a lot more If you tell me not to do something Now I have to do it Yes I have I can see this I didn't realize I was doing the research on both of you But now it's screaming at me How ambitious you both are And how you feed each other's ambition You know I can feel it like right now And that's such an important value, I think, to have alignment in.

44:46I also think it's incredible because in Germany, so you had already built up a brand and recognition in Germany. You had built up a brand, full career, right, in Germany. But you're taking the risk to go to the UK and that you're supporting this. So you come and absolutely crush it. It took a while. Yes. but but but but can you say do you feel like you crushed it i i i do i do but i know i think saying that kind of i know what you mean but i feel like it diminishes the hard work okay when people say you crushed it because every time i talk to someone they go my gosh you won the biggest show on television twice and i'm like yes but it did a lot like it took five years to get there I think Strictly is not a TV show.

45:39It's a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle choice. It is all you think about 24-7. It's all you do. You're on tour. You're doing other Strictly associated shows. You're not really 100 % in the marriage because there's this goal, this trophy that is handmade, by the way. It's handmade, in fact. But there is this thing and you're fixated on it. And it was five long years of hard work. And I loved it because that's how I am. I have to say that. I loved it because that's the type of person I am. I'm obsessed with something. I'll do anything to have it. But when I look back at the two years, and I think it took five years to get there, was that five years worth it?

46:29Yes, because it made me very resilient, made me extremely resilient. But it was a long five years and we needed to rebuild our priorities or my priorities. We did like a camp where they asked us what our priorities were and how you list them means it and how you partner list them. Tony Robbins. Yeah, Tony Robbins. We did a Tony Robbins. And my priorities was work, career, and then love. and his were love, work, and career. And we had to, we needed to switch that up. We needed to completely reorder that. You know, just by you saying that, I can feel, I could feel, I could feel it. It was a lot, yeah.

47:22But the one statement that you just said that has blown me away is that I couldn't be 100 % in my marriage. Yeah. And you admitted to that. So five years where you could not be 100 % into your marriage. Yes. So what does the marriage look like during that five years? It looks like him traveling all the time, doing the work. And when he's there, we are either choreographing a dance or we're talking about a dance or I'm in the shower crying that I can't teach this person. So it was a lot about me, really, in those years. I mean. You know what I'm saying? It's still about me. No, but I don't think.

48:09Which is fine. No. I'm more than good at that. No, but I think it just fell into the fact that it became. No, it was not about you. It was mostly about the show and how to do the best of you in the show. Yes. So it's a little bit different. But I knew it. I did a show. I'm in that business. I knew what it takes to be a successful dancer and choreographer in a show like that. So it was nothing new, but obviously it's tough and it hurts and it's not the easiest time. But you see the end of the tunnel and you know it's... That there's an end goal? Yeah. During the time, you knew what it took. But in the moment, did you feel as if OT was not 100 % in the relationship?

49:00But I knew she's not going to be. I knew how she was. My personality. And I was like, you're not going to win if you're not like that. So what would I expect from somebody who wants to win? It's like in every career. If you want to be there, you have to be there. you cannot be there and be to have the same achievement as the people that are there or present or doing the the work you know so you have to do the work it's not like we we do we listen to a lot of mentoring and something that will smith said and i think that's something that i took on maybe a little bit too much was you have to go for plan a you have to be so into plan a so all around plan A that you don't even have time for plan B because plan B is not even an option.

49:53It's distracting from plan A. Yes, plan B is distressed from plan A. So in my mind, that said, everything else. I didn't communicate with my friends. I didn't communicate with my family. I didn't communicate with my husband. It was just this one goal that I wanted to achieve so, so, so, so, so much. Luckily, the husband communicated with you. Luckily, my husband is brilliant. Luckily, my family is brilliant. Luckily, my friends are also, because it's those people around me that are like, they went, when she's doing this, we all have to just let it happen. And then she will come back to us. But in those three months, it's all encompassing.

50:34And I needed to have that tunnel vision. That tunnel vision. Like a stallion. Yeah. So from your family's perspective, I get it. Yeah. Your family, your blood, right? Yes. They know regardless you're coming back. Yes. From your husband's perspective, though, I would imagine that you don't know at 100 % that she is coming back. I mean, we love what you do 100%, but we are happy to be back home. A job is not the whole package for your life. A job is a part of what you do, and it's great that you're doing something, especially if you do something amazing, and you inspire people, and you are making people think more, especially with Bill Bailey, if I think about it.

51:15I mean, that was the biggest inspiration you could have done, especially in that time with the lockdowns. And so it's obviously very, very, yeah, I was very proud of her. I mean, you cannot be not proud of somebody working hard, you know what I mean? Right. Right. Like, yeah. During that time, because what's interesting is that I think your understanding of the profession and what it takes is what allowed you to have that trust to know what's required. Right. I think someone who was not in the industry at all would have said, what's going on here? But you did. And I think there's so many blessings I can see woven into the relationship.

51:54But what was the lowest moment, you think, in that five-year period since it was so hard? I mean, to go back to that, you still have to be strong as a man until if you see a few guys running around there, You have to still to make sure that it's going to be not pretty if you're exaggerating with one of the other gestures. You still have to do that because it's part of communication, I would say. Oh, well. So did you have to communicate with other men? Of course. You did? You don't have to do a lot. Slight message. We teach and learn body language. So you don't have to speak so much in that sense.

52:33People understand. Not to touch. But I mean, how do you do that given that Oti's a dancer? It's not necessary about the Strictly partners because Oti, I think, was quite clear about how professional she is. It was not about that, but it was about the whole environment many times. You know, it's the entertainment business. I know. I know. But special one. So you asserted yourself though. Yeah. How shall I say? I think it's just something that is in that basic instinct of humankind that you have the idea of protecting your family. You have that idea of protecting your relationship. And I think it's very natural.

53:15I don't think it's bad about it. And it's just the way how you communicate. I think that's maybe sometimes the wrong tool in communicating. But yeah, I think it was important for us to be careful. Also for her, when she's telling me, oh, I see that. I see. I was like, okay, okay. I don't see it. I was like, you better stop. No, yeah, I think it's boundaries, right? It's also good. It's fun as well at the same time, you know. It's like, okay, because you still need to be a man and you still have to be a woman to be kind of, yeah, feel like you are living your life still. You still have a life. You're not defined by the relationship.

53:57You're not in the relationship, like in a cage, like, oh, I cannot be myself, you know? Because you flirted until 25, then you got married. Flirting is off now. Off mode, airplane mode. Can we spend a moment talking about whether or not you can be in a relationship and still have physical attraction to someone outside of your partner? Well, most people would say you can't and you shouldn't. But I would say that is an unhealthy myth. You will notice that there are people who are physically attractive. This is a part of being a human being. But to Will Storr's point, and I think he made it poetically, and that is, do you do anything about it?

54:43And what he and his wife agreed to is that they would not. And that is the point. Now, let's go back to where OT and Marius are talking about how they maintain their boundaries being in the entertainment industry. I think you need brain and heart. If you combine those two, you're fine. If you have one or the other, can be two business relations or can be two emotional relationships. So then you are in a small or big issue. We have a few issues after that. I think it's the balance again. I'm sorry. No, I agree. I 100 % agree. I think it is brain and heart and where you are and how you feel and that sense of what do I have at home, that memory of going what's worth what, what do I want to change.

55:40Sometimes what you have at home is not worth it and it needs changing and sometimes it's worth saving. But the boundaries, I think we also have such an open communication to say, that's not okay with me. And it's like, okay, fine. Stop. Yeah. I also think if you trust yourself, you trust your partner. Yes. I think it goes through you. If it doesn't go through your own capacity of trusting yourself, you're never going to trust anyone. Yeah. I mean, that's a fact. That's quite difficult to trust somebody. Everyone talks about the strictly curse. Yeah. What is the Strictly curse? So usually it happens when I think people come together and they spend a lot of time together and they just end up having a relationship.

56:31But over the years, it has definitely redefined what that looks like. And I think people don't even bring it up anymore in a negative connotation because we have couples like Gemma and Gorka who now are married and they have two kids and they have a happy life together. We have Alias and Jeanette who are a couple. He left the show and then now he's back together. And they portray what a family couple is on Strictly, Diane and Joe. So it's when two strangers come together in the room and have a relationship. But it's over the years, in my opinion, it has definitely redefined itself. Yeah, I think the examples of what you did, not really the curse.

57:17The curse is when you end up another relationship and you start a new one, which is not very positive. I think it's a little bit more goes to the roots of that problem, which is if you're not stable enough in your own relationship. Obviously, like I said before, like for us, it happens through dancing. It happens faster, but it will eventually happen. So it's not going to be the strictly curse. It's going to be going to the library curse. Yes. Or going to the shop curse, which will take probably a few months, not a few dances. Exactly. You know what I mean? Because this is the highway. The dancing is the highway of the relationship.

57:54Yes, yes. And the other one is the normal 20 miles per hour zone. It takes a bit longer, but the curse is there. If you want it, you get it. Yeah. I love that. Go into the grocery store curse. It's like, you're right, but you're right. If you spend a long time with someone, it could possibly happen. Yeah. I mean, in psychology, you know, we have what's called the mere exposure effect, the self-expansion, the law of propinquity. all of these essentially state that the longer that you're with someone, the more familiar you become with that person. The more familiar you become, the safer you become, the more you're willing to emotionally open up and trust.

58:34And if you have an unstable relationship somewhere else, and all of a sudden now you can trust someone, of course it moves over. So this is, I agree with you, this happens in all aspects of our life. And this is the reason why it's so important to focus or what's happening at home. Yeah. Yes. And that's why love is in the first place. That's why love is in the first place. Because love is closer to you. Career is a bit farther away from you. You asked us, why are we together? I think the question is, the answer is, we're so similar in the way we think, the way we approach situations, and how driven we are.

59:12And that is one thing that I loved about Maris is that he's not just a Latin dancer. You know, he's an entrepreneur. We have property companies. He's an investor. So he's not just, this is the only thing I'm going to do. He just opens his brain like that. And I'm the same. Morris was there for me a lot when I had the tough moments. I think I had a celeb who I just couldn't get to love the job as much as I wanted, you know, as much as I desired. I think the end goal of the two of us was not the same. And there was one moment where he found me in our apartment and I was in the shower and I was crying with my clothes still on.

1:00:00I just walked into the shower and then sat down, water on, crying on the floor. Because I was like, if I don't get this right.

1:00:11I think in my head it felt I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough in my job. all of this pressure that I have, I'm representing black women. I'm representing African women. I'm like all of that. I stand for so much. If I can't get this job done, I'm not good enough. I don't deserve to be here. That was like, for me, the lowest moment. And in that moment, he came in and he got in the shower fully clothed and he picked me up and he just hugged me and held me. And like you said, it's just a job. It's just a job. You have family. You have friends. You have me. And you have food. We're going to go eat.

1:01:00All right. Who doesn't love food, right? And this is actually the point. What Marius has just done is he's performed a masterclass in communication and making his partner feel affirmed. This is ultimately what humor does. And remember, humor is a component of communication. So it's not necessarily about you feeling like you have to make your partner laugh. It's about you helping your partner understand that you know how they feel. And that's exactly what Marius did. What Marius just did is he affirmed his partner. This is something that every successful partnership does, is they affirm their partners, especially in times of need.

1:01:44And in that moment, I realized that no matter how much I have this career and I love it and I love the show and I absolutely love being on it and everything it encompasses. At the end of the day, I get to go home to the things that make me me. It is not who I am. It's what I do. Yes. And that took, it took a while, it took the next series for me to get another celeb who was much fun. And I was like, you know, I don't really care about winning. Let's just have fun. For me to fall in love with the job again in a completely different way, to fall in love with my husband again in a completely different way, to be more communicative with my friends and my family.

1:02:26That one moment of just seeing him being like, I'm home. I'm going to get in the trenches with you. We're going to work through it and we're going to reassess our priorities. That was the lowest moment that he pulled me out of. Can I say that was one of the most beautiful stories truly that I've ever heard as it relates to supporting your partner. Yes. That was incredible. From your perspective, what was the lowest moment? I mean, I wouldn't say... The thing is, I like to maybe... You're very positive. No, but I try to think what's going to come, what's going to be next, because our lives are not so spectacular, even if you are in the business of public eye, But it's just still a life that is manageable from, you know, more or less what's going to be next.

1:03:33I mean, like in a career, you know, in a sports career, you know, the seasons, you know, you know, the levels, the checkpoints, you know, all of that is 99 % of the people doing that are going through those. So probably you're going to have that route. And of course, the more you put in, the more you're going to get out. Yes, it's very, very simple as that. So not that I was surprised. Obviously, you are emotionally. So it's much more difficult to see that clearness in the plan. But yeah, I had to just be there. So it's not very difficult to be there. It's just difficult to understand what the other one is going through because obviously you don't feel it.

1:04:17Plus she was in the show more emotional than me. I'm more maybe working more from the brain side. And I'm trying to understand from a different perspective to feel, I think that that's difficult to do. Yes. That's difficult to just be like, I feel you. I know what you're going through because you're not really, you cannot know. You're not, the hit was not on you. The hit was on her. So you're saying, I know what you're feeling. You cannot feel. Even if you were hit before, it's always a very different situation. You know, of course, I had my own moments when I moved from Romania to Germany, it just shocks you and you don't have money and you don't know what to do.

1:04:51And you work in constructions for 200 German marks to pay your dance lessons. And then you go to university and then you work in all the jobs in the world just to finance your dream. It's a lot of lowest moments. But when I met her, I was already 30. So I already had a lot of students. So I had an income. I had like stable income and everything because, you know, dancers, well, stable income is a big word. Yes, yes. And yeah, from that point of view, I knew already I was successful. I had finalists, I mean, finalists of world championships. So I had already built up from that sense. So I wasn't in that time of my life where I had the really deep, where I was crying in my room, writing poetry or stuff like that.

1:05:40You do three steps in cha-cha-cha and then you're going to fall. So it's normal. It's nothing. Don't take it as, oh, my God, I'm the worst dancer in the world because I fell down the fourth step. Like you said before, 50 % of the dancers do the fourth, fifth step already wrong because it's difficult to do so many good steps. Yes. You do one good second, good three. Oh, that's bad. That's a bad one. That's a bad one. Okay, let's start again. Yeah. Yes. And then you build it up slowly. So it's, I don't know. I'm just. You know, I believe it. He's also very logical and I'm very emotional. So to me, you could be wearing black and I'm like, oh my gosh, the whole room was black.

1:06:18The whole world was black. And he'd be like, no, there was a man and he was wearing black. Yeah, calmed out. It's not that big of a deal. So even if I'm feeling very emotional and it's a big deal to me, he has the mental capacity. And maybe, I don't want to say he doesn't have emotional intelligence, but he's emotional intelligent enough to know, to remove the emotion. Sometimes there's too much emotion in the situation and he can just remove it and be like, let's just think about what we have, what are the steps and how we can change that. Yeah. And that's that logical order. Yes. I've got a very exciting announcement.

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1:08:39I cannot wait to hear the answer to this one. All right. All right. Hit me. I'm sorry. Yeah, you ready for this? Yeah. All right. So let's paint the picture. You've crushed it. And then there was no shower cry anymore. Then there was just multiple trophies. Multiple trophies. Not one. Multiple trophies. I got a plethora of music. Oh, my God. She said a plethora of trophies out here. All right. So you plethora of trophies. Yes. That means you're crushing it. We're done. We'll move on. You're crushing it. So now I would imagine plethora of trophies means that there is an increase in attention. Yes.

1:09:18Increase in fame. Yes. Increase in money.

1:09:24Stay humble. Right. So all of these things are increasing. Okay. All these things are increasing. Yes. Do you at any point in that time become the breadwinner in the household? I mean, in the entire time throughout of this, I was the breadwinner. Okay. So from the moment I moved to the UK, I was. Okay, so the moment you moved to the UK, you... That was another big pressure. Now, take me back to Romania for a second. Because I was looking at something called the Global Gender Index, right? where it looks at the inequities between men and women in different countries around the world. And I saw that that gap between men and women in terms of health care, in terms of education, in terms of social movement is super wide in Romania and one of the widest in the world.

1:10:21So it ranks one of the lowest on the scale. I think 104, it ranks out of 146 countries, which to a lot of people suggests areas where there could be high levels of misogyny, patriarchy, etc. On average, the men are going to be the breadwinner. Yes, you could say that. Okay. Yes. So what I would love to know is you not being the breadwinner. What is your perspective? I mean, what type of bread are you eating? Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it's a platform. We had bread. I haven't had, but I would stop. It's a plethora of bread. There's lots of bread. There's lots of bread. But the reason why I think this is such an important question is because we're living in a day and age where especially women under the age of 35 in the UK and the U.S.

1:11:07and many parts of the West are out-earning men, out-educating men. And there are a lot of men that are like, hold up. I don't want to deal with this. You are dealing with this, right? And you like this. so what's your take on living still we live in a patriarchy but not being the breadwinner I don't like to follow maybe that's something that's why you asked me about football before and I'm like I'm not a fan really if you're a fan of a team I'm going to be I'm going to go to that game I will love that team in 10 minutes I'm sure if they show heart and soul I'm sure we're going to be supporting that team.

1:11:52So I'm not, I'm not so blinded by what other people are saying. I think I don't like to listen really. I still remember from our dance career when there were important coaches giving us feedback after the competition. I was just, when, when I smell bullshit, I'm off. I'm going, I'm not staying long because I don't have time for that. My life is too short to, to listen to. So I never followed anything like, it seems like OT, maybe that's why we are Like that, I mean, you're telling me that this is not possible. That's like that. This is, I should do what you do. Are you insane? Like, why would I do, like, why?

1:12:31If everybody goes to the right, should I go with, like, what are the chances that I'm going to do something incredible if I go with all of you to the right? I'm going to go to the left. How do you view, so this is a term that is debated a lot now, masculinity. How do you define masculinity?

1:12:53I think a definition of masculinity would be, like I said before, it went from a job, a physical job to a job that you use your brain much more. So I think because of that, now you have to be just mature enough. I would call it as a man, you have to grow up as fast as possible, be mature and just try to do the best for yourself and for your family. And that's it. And the best means that you have to be there. You have to maybe sometimes do that sometimes. So there are, I think it's much more spread in more categories now before you had your two, three tasks and you are super happy. And people are still speaking so much about that.

1:13:33And I'm like, I cannot hear it anymore. What you should do as a man and what makes, it's just, it's just total nonsense. And I'm not appreciating when people are just saying, you know, you have to do all the generations. Always long. You're like, yeah, you have to do. I'm like, no, I don't have to do anything. And if I want to do that, I'm going to do that. And if I, so don't put me in categories, what I can or I should, or I have to do as a man, because a man is so much more complex nowadays. Before it was, we were basic, before we were basic hunters, yeah, and protectors. So we had two jobs, two, three jobs.

1:14:11Now we have maybe 10, 15 jobs. And I think it's more relaxing for the women. and now they can also spread a little bit there from cooking, taking care of the kids of the household. Now they can have a career. They can go out. They can have fun. They can, you know, so I think we just have to be faster grownups as men. I want to talk about your beautiful daughter. Okay. I've seen from behind, but I know I can see, I can see, I can see. But it sounds like a similarity, at least that my wife and that you had OT, was that the pregnancy was challenging. Yes. So what was it about the pregnancy that was so far?

1:14:49Do you know what? The pregnancy itself was beautiful. The actually caring of her was amazing. But we had a spontaneous birth. Well, I had a spontaneous birth where we were going shopping on our way to the doctor. Actually, we were going shopping and my waters just broke, like in the middle of the street. It just broke. And that, because I, and maybe it's my psychological way of thinking, because I don't have any other experience of what birth looks like. It didn't necessarily seem traumatic to me at the time. It just felt like, okay, this thing is happening. I just have to remain calm and my daughter is potentially coming.

1:15:30I think I felt afterwards that, oh my God, that was, that was intense. And when you look at milestones and you see how the milestones of premature kids develop and you see how term kids develop, I have to be very, very understanding because all our friends, the kids are running around and ours is now starting to get there. And so the trauma came after, but the pregnancy itself was beautiful. One thing that I did try and I don't try to do anymore was prove that I'm still competent. I'm still good enough. I think I wanted to prove that pregnant women can work. We can dance. I was working so many jobs at that time.

1:16:20And now I sit here and I think, why did I do that? Like, who the hell was I trying to prove that I can still work on television, and I'm still intelligent, that I can still bounce, that I can still go to gym. Like, why was I doing all of that? You did it for yourself. I did it for myself. Because in that moment, you did that and you didn't want to be out of your whole career, which is very normal. I don't think that's a problem. Obviously, now you're more relaxed. You learn from those feelings. And now you would do maybe a bit different. But still, in that moment, that was the best decision you could take.

1:16:53So you're fine. And I was very stubborn, as you can tell. Very stubborn. No, not at all. So they're... I don't believe it. I don't believe it. Just when they told me I had gestational diabetes, because I had gestational diabetes, and they were like, you need to take these medications, and you need to maybe possibly go on insulin. And I just thought, my parents, my family, they all have diabetes. In my head, if I do it now, I'm going to have to do it for the rest of my life. But I'm resilient. My body is my tool. You know, I'm a dancer. I can control myself. And I didn't. And I told myself that I could do this.

1:17:30And I always questioned myself, had I just listened to the doctors and taken the, you know, the diabetes, would it have taken my sugar down? Is that maybe a reason why I gave birth early? Like I had all these questions going through my head of how would I redo it? If we're lucky enough to have another baby, am I going to sit at home now and wait and do everything the doctors tell me so that I don't have a spontaneous birth again? Yes. And again, I questioned myself, why was I doing that? What was the purpose? What did I gain? What did I learn from that? And that was the thing that I find difficult now is the afterthought.

1:18:11So how do you think that your daughter's premature birth has impacted you both emotionally? Huge. I mean, definitely you are much more impacted than me because I trust doctors. I trust, we knew we were one in the best hospitals we could be for her being a premature born baby. So I knew there is nothing better we could do. And I saw other premature babies, which if they would have been on that week in Romania, for example, they wouldn't even save the baby. I'm like, that lady is lucky. Yes. We are lucky. So let's just appreciate. Yeah. And the NHS were brilliant. And trust them. But I would imagine it must have been incredibly challenging because one thing I've definitely learned about both of you is that you're planners, right?

1:19:12And you're good at managing what's happening in and around you. But here was a moment that you couldn't control at all. You couldn't. And we didn't know what we were doing. I think a lot of parents say they have the baby, they keep them in our hospital for two days and they go. We had the baby and the baby was sick. She couldn't breathe on her own. She couldn't eat on her own. She was really small. And those images with those tubes in her hands and nose. So that was incredibly, incredibly tough. And for me, especially, she was my baby, you know. I wanted to be there every single step of the way.

1:19:50And I was there. And there were moments where she was doing really great. And then there were moments she wasn't doing really great. There were moments where she would eat and then there were moments that she wouldn't eat. And like he said. And the tubes and up and down. They were changing tubes from a stronger to a weaker one from air, from oxygen. You're like, oh, my God, what's going on? And feeding her was really, really tough. And the last step before she gets released is that she needs to be able to eat on her own. And I was there all the time and she wasn't doing it. Not through the tubes.

1:20:23Yeah. I was sitting through a tube, which was also quite difficult. And then he said to me, you sometimes do need to trust and trust that the NHS know what they're doing. Maybe you just need to relax just a little bit. And don't force it. And don't force it. Because if she gets earlier out of the hospital, it's not necessary. And so we decided for like a few days that I would leave the hospital early and just relax. Go home. That's interesting. chill, just pray and just relax. And she developed like that. That's interesting. When you would go, I mean, that's a lot of strength to be able to leave.

1:21:00To leave your baby. When I left, the hardest thing, the hardest, oh, and I remember, the hardest thing was it was over Christmas. And the whole nation, it felt like the whole nation was so happy. It's Christmas. It's the happiest time of the year. And we love radio. I listen to radio all the time and they're like, it's Christmas. It's the happiest time of the year. And I was like, this is the worst point of my life ever. And I hated everything. And I was just like, this is horrible. How can in this world, this beautiful thing, Christmas happened. And there are people in the world that we don't actually think that for them, Christmas is the toughest time of the year.

1:21:47and and i just i cried i cried for an hour this is not fun i hate christmas in europe i hate it oh um and and that was so so so so tough and he was just like patience it will happen and he's like that girl he still says it today he's like she's got such incredible willpower such incredible she wanted to come out early she wanted to be with us and She wanted you to see her grow. Everything that's happened, it's happened because she wanted it. And I had to be like, and it calmed me down a little bit. So what day does she come home? 24th of December. Just before Christmas. Just before Christmas. Just before Christmas.

1:22:37So look at that Christmas present that you got. Honestly, that day felt like the longest day of my life. I was like, can we just get out of this place? Get me out. Eyes and ear tests. We're going to do the sound and then we're going to do ears. And then you can have some tea. And I was like, I'm not hungry. I want my baby home. What is the top lesson that you've learned now that you're parents?

1:23:05The top one? There are so many. What are the top lessons? I think for me as a woman, important because we get from society a lot this word or phrase of snapping back body-wise. That that's not, that is, you do not need to snap back. You do not need to, or they say to feel like yourself again. You do not need to feel like the old version of you because the new version right now is fucking brilliant. Sorry. They are so brilliant. And I had to learn that, that that old version cannot provide for my child now. This version of me, the body that I have now has provided me with this beautiful human being.

1:23:59and the personality that I am now, the way that I have to be there for my husband, be your wife, be your mom, be your sister, be your friend, the new version of me is perfect and it works and it is good enough. That's the biggest lesson that I learned that. It's hard, but who you are right now is good enough. And I think a lot of moms don't hear that. The first thing you hear is how tough it is, which it is. You hear how now you need to get back or, oh, are you going to have the second one? But rarely do you hear that where you are right now is enough and you're good enough and you're doing okay.

1:24:41You're doing actually brilliantly. Yes. You know what, on that, can I ask is that I do see, especially on Instagram. Yeah. You know, these photos of, you know, I just had my child. Yes. You know, six weeks ago. And I'm walking on the Stairmaster a week ago. Yeah. Yes. So that's what you're referring to. Yes. Okay. And I think because I didn't decide, because again, we went through this whole traumatic thing. I just decided, you know what, this is my body. Breastfeeding is difficult. Trying to actually get the food for the baby out of your body is so difficult. If you have to work, if you have to provide for your family, if you have to do all these things, it's so difficult.

1:25:23And fixing my body right now is the last thing that I want to do. But I also want to be healthy, which is what does not fixing your body also look like? And I started later. I'm only now on my let's get healthy train right now. And it took about nine, eight months for me to get there. But you see a lot of people, models, actresses, that I feel actually are even thinner than what they were when they had a baby. It's almost like they want to erase that time of like, I was big, I was swollen, my body was providing for a human being. And I just felt like I don't want to put myself under that pressure because she is going to see and hear the things and how I talk to myself and internally and unconsciously speak like that to herself and about herself as well.

1:26:20Yes. All right. Just a couple more here. We started talking about culture. how do you think that your origin cultures have now impacted how you parent oh wow for me there's a lot to unpack culturally culturally in south africa i i told you we have that family dynamic which is something that i i do not wish to bring into our house i don't want this is important. Like I don't want that hierarchy. I want her to be able to have, and that's why I think I push so much their relationship. I want her to be able to go to my husband with a problem. I want her to not be scared. I want her to not be scared to say her opinion, to say no, no mommy, no daddy.

1:27:10I don't want that. I want her to have those boundaries and to have that line. And I love that in the Romanian culture, you cannot touch the relationship between the daughter and the father. Like the men in Romania are so paternal, so maternal. Like I think it was the first time I went to a country and I saw a group of men in Prams walking with their children ever. And bringing their kids to practice. And done schools. It's the dads that are there. The girls in two's and the dads. Girls, yeah, they dress the girls up. They do their girls' hair. Do their hair. Yeah, they're like, I'm going to cook for my daughter.

1:27:49No, I don't want to hang out with you. And the younger generations, obviously. I don't want to hang with you. My daughter's waiting for me at home. And that, again, is one of the things I went, ooh, I like Romanian men. I just know they did that. And culturally, that is the thing that I, and I'm not saying that my dad is amazing. My dad is absolutely amazing. but that cultural way of living is not what I would want to do. But what I do love about my family and what I do want to bring is, and we talk about this, that positivity. We have a good time as a family. We smile. We love music. We love singing.

1:28:26We love dancing. We're very competitive. Don't come over for Christmas for game night because that's intense. But that joy that we have and we laugh with each other and we respect and protect like lions for each other. I bring that 100%. I want her to be joyous. I want her to be open. I want her to be friendly. I want her to be very social. I want her to be very smart and goal-orientated. And I think culturally, that's something I want to bring into our family. So what would you have done differently if you were to go back and relive your career? Any regrets? I would have split my focus between things that really matter and things that are just a job.

1:29:14Interesting, yeah. And I would have had my daughter earlier. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That's a shock. Because now I'm like, I'm not old. Now I'm still 34. But I'm like, oh my God, I wish I had more time. I wish I had done this earlier and I had more time. I think it was the perfect time, personally. For you. That's me. For me. I'm like, I would have wanted it earlier as well. Yeah. But I think for you was the perfect time. Yes. That's my observation. Yeah. But because I work in television and it is so easy for that whole career to just be swept under your feet. Like, everything can go. Mm-hmm. The best thing right now, I think, for a lot of people to do is invest in yourself.

1:30:04Really, instead of buying that bag, go buy a book and read The Diary of a CEO. Instead of going out and partying, take that little bit of money and invest it towards the mortgage. Take the time. Take the time. Take the time to listen to a podcast, to listen to something educational. Invest in yourself. It doesn't matter how small, how big. And the biggest thing that we have is our dance school. And that was my first step. I think because we always had coaches, mentors, so that's always something that I did a mentorship in Properties as well, mentorship with somebody from Tony Robbins. But the psychology side is almost zero.

1:30:46So you have to teach if you have the right ideas and you read and you try to be better, then you're good. But literally, this is changing what's happening here. And not this. Because we in the dancing, we go from the body language and the body development to the brain. And we're like, oh, now I get it. This takes so long. Yes. Just go from here into here. You always say just make the decision. Yeah. Make the decision. Exactly. Somebody to help you to take this or to just guide you. you know what challenges your relationship the most now i think time time um we both have a lot going on it's about time and time management because we have our baby it's quality time and i think is we want to spend time with her yes she doesn't take time yeah yeah we really want to spend as much time as possible with her.

1:31:47But then what does that also look like if I'm exhausted and it's my turn to have time with her and then he has to work. So the challenge is he's like, I need to work, OT. It's, you know, you had four days where it was, I did my bit. Now it's my turn and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm tired. So it's managing and prioritizing and respecting each other's time because we are doing it It's just us. Yes. We don't have extra help. We don't have any family here. It's just us. So time is the challenge of us time, his own time, work time, family time, baby time. And that can create sometimes conflicts, mainly with me.

1:32:35How do you then balance work and parenting and life? I think we're still figuring it out. Are you answering this? Yeah, no, we're figuring it out. But because we really know our priorities, like we said before, from there you start to cut from here, you cut from there, you have to there. Plus, yeah, you just have to sleep sometimes. You really have to sleep. In an hour, please. Put sleep as a priority sometimes because it's okay. Can I say, I love you, man. I told you. I told you. I told you. I told you. Yeah, yeah. I thought you did. If you did, you'll end up like, oh, my gosh, everyone in my life does that.

1:33:22Mario, what makes you? Yes. Can I underscore why I love that? Believe me. It was a bit of a setup question, right? Because I personally don't believe in balance between parenting. I don't believe balance between life or balance between work. Instead, it's about prioritizing what is most important to us and learning to cut the fat, learning that not everything is for you. Yeah. And once you understand what is not for you, you understand what actually is. And what matters. And what matters. Final question. I thought you were going to forget. No, no, no. No, no. Final question. And this is to me personally, this is my most important question.

1:34:03And every guest gets this. you both have had some incredible conversations throughout your life, especially with each other. But when you think back to the most memorable conversation that you've had, who was it with and what did you talk about? Not with each other. No. I had with one of my first coaches, if I may start, and it was actually about dancing. but in the end, actually, it was about life. He said, the person who is last on the dance floor is gonna be the winner. But he didn't say up the competition, that was it. And I was like, okay. And then after a while, it was one world champion and blackboard winner, actually, he was winning nine times.

1:34:57And then after we finished practice, it was a dance camp in Freiburg in Germany. He was still practicing in front of the mirror. He was the last one in the room. And I was like, this guy said, but he is the best, like miles away from everybody else. And he's still practicing. So he's the last in the room. And then I had a few situations like this throughout my life. And I was like, oh, that guy's the last there. So he's going to be probably the one who is the best in that. And then, and I think it's something like, yeah, that was something that I always remember. don't have expectations if you're not there.

1:35:34You know? You know? I received it. He should have finished, you know? Now you can end the podcast. This is the competitiveness of you. I know! You don't have to be. You don't have to be. Thank God! You know? Maybe just edit it around. Okay, we'll go first. We're going to pretend that I'm starting it. So if I may go first, please. Oh my gosh, I think I've had many, many conversations. My dance coach from South Africa said, whatever you put in is going to be a reflection. So if you put in that 100%, you will get 100%. And everything that everyone tells you, pulling down, you have to do the exact opposite because there you will find your equilibrium.

1:36:28Do exactly the opposite of what everyone tells you and stick to your core and you'll have that core energy. You know, watching these interviews, reading press articles, I think a question pops up that says, okay, they share dance, but what else do they share? I'm walking away saying that you two are essentially each other. I mean, you two share priorities, values, direction. you both are rebels you are perfect for each other I told you we think we are different but actually we are the same we think we are different we are very similar we are just different in what we are achieving but we are very similar and I am the rebel I love that you are saying that I am the rebel of my family I would say a lot of decision making and him too.

1:37:28Yes. They do not agree with probably 95%. We spend 95 % getting advice from our family and then we spend the other 5 % being angry at them. Yes. Because we're like, why give us advice? Because we're never going to listen. Yeah. Well, let me leave you with this. Just imagine what your daughter's going to do to you. What about that? That was so bad. Just imagine. She's going to be great. She's going to be great. She's not going to listen to a word that she says. She's not going to watch this interview. Do not watch. Stop watching. Stop watching. That's it. Imagine how much of a rebel your daughter is going to be.

1:38:07She already is, to be honest. Honestly, she already is. Which is fine because we're going to make her smart enough to be smart rebel. Yes. That's going to be the upgrade. We let her be mad and we just... Smart rebel. Yeah. Good stuff. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. What an amazing conversation. Oti and Marius are truly inspiring. And I feel so grateful to them for coming into this studio to share this very honest and personal glance into their lives. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. And after having a think, I would like to share some of my key takeaways. So my first takeaway from this conversation is cultivate a partnership where instead of being independent or dependent on each other, you are interdependent.

1:38:55It's clear that OT and Marius work together as a cohesive team while maintaining their own individual identities and strengths. This balance has allowed them to navigate life's challenges and responsibilities in a way that has really strengthened their bond while also supporting each other's growth in their personal lives and careers. Number two, ensure both of your priorities are aligned with love and your relationship at the forefront, followed by your work and career. The intentional reordering of priorities that O.T. and Marius took has helped them to maintain a healthy balance and prevent their professional ambitions from overshadowing the needs of their partnership.

1:39:36Regularly reassess your priorities to ensure your relationship remains the foundation upon which you build your lives together. Number three, cultivate a relationship where you both feel empowered to set and respect each other's boundaries. Oti and Marius have open and honest dialogues about their boundaries and support each other in upholding them. Healthy boundaries foster trust, understanding, and the freedom to grow together. And number four, and I love this one, and don't forget, as Marius says, have trust in yourself. Trust in a relationship starts with trusting yourself. If you don't have confidence in your own judgment and instincts, it becomes harder to fully trust your partner.

1:40:21Building self-trust is the first step to fostering deeper trust in any relationship.

1:40:40Hello there, my name is Ella. What do you do when your own thoughts defeat you? Unfollow Your Thoughts is a practical guide to break the cycle of procrastination and avoidance. and to get things done without chaos. Get your copy of Unfollow Your Thoughts by Ella Torvaldsson on www.american.fm. That is www.american.fm. The Charles County Recreation, Parks, and Tourism Fall Guide is here. We have an exciting lineup of spooky seasonal special events, youth sports leagues, adult programs, therapeutic recreation offerings, and much more for you and your family to enjoy this season. Visit charlescountyparks.com to learn more and register for your favorite program today.