"Real Housewives Was The Downfall Of Our Marriage" PK Paul Kemsley

0:00I didn't like what you said, Odin pauses, about the future. This is the love story of real hinge couple Odin and Edward, written and read by me, Curtis Garner. Listen to the free audiobook now. Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I sit down with Paul P.K. Kemsley to talk about his time on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, why he entered the world of reality TV, and what happens when you lose control of your own story.

0:46You have a strong relationship. Yeah. Okay. You are married prior to the show. You have a beautiful child. Yeah. Right? And then even you professionally, I feel like you're now back. Yeah. You're not where you were. No, but we're doing okay. You're doing okay. Right, you're back. Yeah. So you now have everything that you want.

1:13Why do you get involved in a franchise like that, right, with the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills? I think there were a lot of reasons. um i had a very dear friend of mine who's another one of these super unbelievable kings of industry this particular guy in the music business but about as big as you can get and he when we went to la he said to me there are only three entry points in la pk money power and celebrity that's what he talked okay and i'm like okay he said well money you gotta have the money you used to have and then even then some and then build schools and do some of the charitable initiatives that you used to do because i was very involved in charities and stuff power he said you've got a own a studio and a bank being government so your quickest entry point if you want to live in la is celebrity so when he says if you want to live in la he was talking about the recreation of potentially of what i had done previously and knowing that that was the world that i came from so at that very time one of the publicists that i was working with i'm going to give her a name shout because i love her her name's dawn miller okay and she's a british girl that worked out of LA and she said oh PK they're casting for the housewives now I've never seen the show ever didn't know anything about it all I knew that was that Lisa Vanderpump yes who was my friend was on it that's all I knew right and I said to Dorit I think she just had Phoenix so this was phoenix is now 10 so this is 10 years ago why don't you just go and do a reading a cast have a casting so i lined up the casting she came back said it went horribly and then three weeks ago three weeks later they came back and they said we'd like to film you guys at home okay so what i do know is i know how to close a deal yes yeah and that could be a real estate or whatever yes So I said, right, this is what we're doing.

3:30We're filling the house with flowers. We're going to get the most eclectic group of guests around the table. We're going to stick Boy George in one corner, Pele in another, whatever. Do you know what I mean? We're going to have our friends, and we're going to bring in entrepreneurs. And it's going to be the richest guy in the room and the poorest guy in the room. This one can sing. Oh, this guy can't see, but he can paint. Do you know how? And the backdrop, too, is because what I understand, I mean, the house was. The house was spectacular. The backdrop was great. I knew how to do it. So we did it.

4:00And as they say in England, Bob's your uncle. She got the gig. Now, whether or not... Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin. Written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now.

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5:01Don't use if you are allergic to EBCLIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. I mean, that proved that... I don't know, because we haven't seen the end of the movie yet, but I do know that that show was fun until it wasn't. I was blind to what was going on, what was happening.

5:50I didn't act soon enough. Okay. And because my personality is a double down guy. Right. I don't like walking away from a bet. I used to double down. We'll get this bet right. Get this bet right. Yes. I had no regard for the global awareness of this show. None. Literally none. And I think even now, you look back 10 years ago, social media and Twitter is not was not then what it is now. Right. Right. The toxicity of it. You know, the fact that a lot of it is not even human beings commenting, it's bots. And I know a lot. I know a lot about that now. And. You know, the rest, unfortunately, is history.

6:35And I will maintain that I have. Absolute accountability for going down that avenue and I made some very significant mistakes in not acting when I saw it going wrong. Right. So then... You know, and I think that when you're asking me these questions, it's got to be about my perspective because Dorit's got her own perspective and I'm not, as I've said a million times before, she's the mother of my kids. Right. What she chooses to do and say about me is entirely up to her. her versions her perspectives her truth are her truth it doesn't mean they're the truth right they're her truth right i have my own right i don't want that period of my life to define me i don't want it to represent because the truth is a lot of it is down to the editing it is and they create these scenarios that just didn't happen do you know what i mean and the accusations and the rumor and the hearsay and they whip it up and they love it but there are victims yeah and i'm not calling myself a victim i'm not a victim i'm out of it yeah it was uncomfortable but i don't want our kids to be victims of those decisions yes do you understand i don't and i won't allow that right and i won't allow when i say i won't allow i'm talking about not in a controlling sense I mean in an emotional context I will do my very best to not add fuel to what I'm trying not to allow right because it because you're trying you're trying to contain a fire I'm trying to contain a fire but I'm also saying okay well that's not my fire anymore you want to blow that fire up you want to create that fire and live in that fire that's your choice right I choose not to live in that fire anymore.

8:33All right. So then from just your relationship with television, if I look at that. So this is season, what is it? Season seven of Real Housewives, 2016. What was initially, what was your feel around reality TV? I was your take on it. I first of all believe that I had the most beautiful, charismatic sharp ferociously ambitious wife and i wanted to show her off okay and i also felt because i've always been able to control direct storyline businesses yes you know and i were in control previously I thought I was in control okay and even at its most simplistic moronic position and this is like oh pico you really are an idiot I was like it's kind of cool to be a celebrity you get tables at the right time and yeah you know I joked about this I joked about this with James Corden right when he asked me after one year he said why do you do that show I said well I didn't want to be in the 5 to 10 club so he said to me what do you mean I said well when you come to LA and nobody knows who you are and you want to get a table they offer you 5 or 10 I see it so he goes where are you now I said 8 o 'clock he goes yeah I'm 7.45 he goes do you know what I mean and that was kind of funny for me also I'd been in the public world I've been public for many many years so for me yeah I had my ups and downs with publicity and all that but I wasn't really on social media right I wasn't aware of what that show can do and I'm not blaming that show on my divorce or my relationship or who I think Dorit is now versus who I think she was or who I am now I think the biggest question I have that will never be answered is is that is Dorit where she was always going to be and always going to end up or was I responsible for putting her in that world and then that world created what happened now but there's no question that before we did that like if you talk about happy times I mean I remember living in Tribeca we had a beautiful apartment Dorit and me and then we had the baby.

11:16And life was pretty fucking good. You know, I used to have this big TV. I used to watch my football on a Sunday, direct my dinner on a Friday. We went and saw movies, took the baby for a walk. Who drove the bus into the wall? Me. Much like I had done many times in my life. But it's kind of like... the analogy is, is if you go and buy a candy store and then you say to your best friends and your lover and go and have what you want, it's our candy, go eat. Right. You've got to realise there are going to be consequences to that. And you always rely on people to be aware and have certain disciplines and then you lose control of that.

12:03You lose control of that, whatever it is, that thing that keeps moving forward and growing. Yes. in a not always beautiful way and an ugly way. And then the show likes to go back and only talk about bad things. So then you start reporting on this and that. And I'm like, well, what about that? And then they build up this vision of who you are as a person, who you are as a couple. And you and then you start repeating it. I really start believing it. And then suddenly you find yourself. What are you talking about? I'm nothing like that guy. what are they showing i'm nothing like the person they're showing and then i'm looking at my wife and saying like who are you right it's like it's scary when you look at it yes yes and you lose control of that of that thing oh that thing so so my wife and i in 2011 way back we we were offered a reality TV show to follow our life.

13:09Right. Yeah. And I was all for it. I was like, this is great. We should do it. My wife said, no. It's going to destroy us because we could lose ourselves. And what you're just saying to me is that it's this depiction of you. It sounds like what you're saying is that you lost yourself. There is a storyline that's created that's not you. It's bits and pieces of who you are, what the relationship is. And then, you know, I'm in reality TV. There's a double down on that storyline. We know that if it bleeds, it leads. So we know that the negative always rises to the top. But then I think what's so hard for me with Real Housewives in particular is that there's multiple people.

14:03In the show. I'm sure there's a competition for the A. No, of course. Yeah, the A storyline. And that's getting even worse. I mean, what I see now is fractured relationships, fractured friendship, broken marriages, sadness, money issues, health issues. and they're all doubled and trebled and some of them are steeped in truth and some of them have no truth and the audience seem to enjoy watching implosion and then they pick their side and they believe they know what they know because they listen to what somebody's saying i mean one of the weirdest things for me and it took a lot of discipline but i made a decision not to talk about it like i'm not you know we've talked we've spoken in very generic terms yes you know i'm not gonna come out and start saying that's not true that's not true that's not true that's how about the whole lot ain't true the whole lot ain't true and the only real victims are going to be the kids so i'm going to do all i can to protect them and to protect you know, their lives and their journeys.

15:26And I'm not, and I do not believe it's in their interests for me to publicly litigate our divorce, right? Will I inevitably have to use the court system? I don't know. Maybe that's avoidable, maybe it's not, right? But the reality is, is I know that I'm not free from blame, for sure. but I'm not controlling the last two years and I wouldn't have encouraged it and I would have strongly recommended in any capacity my capacity as a manager my capacity as a business guy my capacity as a father and a husband if I'd have had somebody would listen I would have said that is the wrong thing to do yeah right is that why you left the show no it's not why I left the show So I left Dorit, which is why I left the show.

16:23And we were in a separation. And then Dorit, in fairness to her, it was a big job. And she had to continue. And then Dorit decided what narrative she'd do. And at the point that she was doing that, listen, I'm not in that world anymore. I'm involved in business, thank God, again. And I'm doing some great stuff. And I'm out of that world now. but it's part of it's the like it's been the last 10 years of my life and you know i don't think anybody can sit there and say they're nothing to do with it i mean of course i'm part of the problem for sure yeah do i feel it's been fair and justified no i don't there are periods that i know it's not fair yeah do you have to still own the shit don't you i mean who started it you know So all that stuff, I didn't realize how much it would affect me emotionally and drain me and put me back into a place that I didn't want to be in.

17:22Do you understand? So then you say, well, how do you get out of this? How do you get out of this place? Fight your way out? Joke your way out? How do you get out of it? And I didn't manage to. If you could take us back there, if you're willing, to talk about the darkest moment so that we can understand how you felt and what was driving that emotion for you. I think there were a lot of dark moments. I think this sense of, for me, this inability that I experienced to be clear. I had no clarity. I had no clarity with my marriage, with that show, with business. I couldn't focus. That's when I decided to blame it on drink.

18:21and say, right, I'll give up drink and that will get me clear. And actually, there was enormous clarity when I did that. But I also learnt that that wasn't the issue. The issue was me and delving into all of the mistakes that I'd always made, seeing myself making the same mistakes, having that sense of deja vu, thinking about Loretta and the kids and the distance, it was too much distance between me and my older kids. I mean, thank God it's all, but I was too absent. I didn't want to be absent this time around. And then I was being accused of being absent and I wasn't absent. But I think I was absent in terms of my ability to address how I was actually feeling.

19:13I actually made myself second. I didn't I still don't but I didn't love myself I didn't I didn't respect myself I was just doing it for this thing I'd lost even any thought as to why I was doing it and you just said something powerful so so today as you said do you love yourself not yet are you proud of yourself no do you respect what you've created no You don't? Not yet.

19:51I'm aware of what I've created. People like you, who show me respect and, you know, in a really beautiful way and say, this is amazing what you did. But no, I'm not there yet. You're not there, PK. No. You know, when you came in, before you came in, I was talking to different people, getting ready to interview PK and I'm just bragging about you thanks that is a bit shocking to me that you don't love yourself not yet how can I at the moment in terms of I'm always I'm always in a situation it's like at the moment I'm in this divorce situation you know my kids I'm worried about them I'm worried about them being affected I don't see this noise stopping the only way I can stop it is to remove myself from it I even was asked last night why am I doing this interview I said I don't I don't really know I'm in London I guess I've got a story to tell you asked me at the beginning maybe my lessons maybe my journey can help someone else right but I haven't finished my journey and I definitely don't sit there in the mirror and go love you PK you know that you read all you have to start loving yourself put yourself first I'm not there yet I'm not will I get there?

21:30I hope so I really hope so and it's yeah people are inspired by some of the things I've done I think that I have a few ways to get better that I've not managed to do yet right I know that I'm very affected emotionally and I'm very sensitive to for example social media commentary people are so vile and as it happens on my own feed people are beautiful very rarely but I've still had to block 1900 people in the last 12 months you know they write terrible things and then you say well why are you even reading it so the secret the secret is definitely it's definitely not to read it but i i because of the addictive nature of my personality it's difficult to do yes am i getting better at it 100 don't even watch the show anymore don't watch it and i but but i can't avoid the clips and the trailers and the papers, what they say, and everybody around you, the people you love are affected.

22:42Yes. You know, people don't realize. My mom, you know, my dad's 88. He has to listen to his daughter-in-law speaking how she's speaking, and it affects him. Yes. So now he's trying not to see it. Yeah. The good news is his eyes are going, so now he can't see it. So it's hard. But the fact, I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize. it's incredibly nasty and unkind to troll but the ripple effect that it creates in that person's life their parents their children yeah it's unfair we've protected our kids but i've always said to dorit don't do this the kids are going to read it at some point don't do it but i'm not in control of her decisions right and she's not in control of my decisions um are there from what you if if only if you'd like to to say this are there any storylines from the show that are particularly challenging for you that you want to address not really I mean I don't think that I need to address storylines on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills I think I'm better off to focus on my own healing, my own growth.

23:56I mean, look, Mauricio is one of my great friends now so I took a beautiful friendship out of that out of that show. Yes. Beautiful friendship. Transparent, honest, we share and we don't have any secrets. Such a great guy inspirationally in business but the world's got an opinion of him based on the show. So that was a gift from the show. I got a great friendship, funny enough, out of one of the producers, Alex Baskin, the big one. Okay. I consider him a true friend of mine. Great guy. So there have been some wins, you know, in terms of friendships. But everything else, no, it's not great. Okay.

24:44Would you ever do reality TV again? It depends in what context. so it depends what you call reality tv if i thought it was a positive uplifting beautiful thing to do that was going to help other people and be fun and funny and humorous and we got into a serious mode in this thing but i like to joke around i like to mess around yeah i'd do that yeah and if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.

25:37Should she say that about the kisses? Is that weird? She doesn't care. She presses send. This is the love story of real hinge couple Daniel and Roisin, written and read by me, Rufy Thorpe. Listen to the free audiobook now.

26:12And watch the Oscar-winning phenomenon at home. This is sick!