Sam Vanderpump: Why I’m Fighting For Organ Donation

0:00This episode is brought to you by PayPal. You know how a mom's bag has everything? Sunscreen. Snacks. A stapler? The new PayPal app is like that, but for your money. Shop, pay, manage your account, and earn rewards all in one place. And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security, and pass keys, you're protected at every step. Download the new PayPal app to get started. See paypal.com slash protection terms. Welcome to We're Talking. This organ donation week, I sit down with Made in Chelsea star Sam Vanderpump to discuss the life-changing health battle that led him to become an advocate for organ donation.

0:54let's talk about this uh health condition yeah that that that you're facing because when i as a father yeah as a husband when i think about what you are going through i can't fathom it to the point where there was high interest for me to sit down with you because I truly want to understand how you are feeling in this moment with everything you're dealing with so just to describe what is it that you're dealing with um I'll take you from the beginning I was diagnosed at the age of four with a liver disease congenital hepatic fibrosis my mom spotted it because when i was four years of age i was a very poorly baby actually i was born eight weeks early okay i had a collapsed lung i was in an incubator i died twice in the incubator i think i yeah i had a collapsed lung they put a tube into me i mean i like flatlined i think twice once or twice you know I was very poorly and in a few weeks later sent out into the world healthy we thought I was healthy um so they dealt with a very you know it must have been very hard for my mum my father my whole family my grandmother everyone um but I was fine you know they dealt with it you know I was fine four years of age my mum looks at me in the swimming pool and she goes Sam's figure doesn't look right and because I'm not I wasn't a you know a chubby baby or a chubby child I had very skinny arms but I had this extended belly but it wasn't it wasn't like there was there was no fact it was like I was pregnant okay and my mum couldn't get over it in her head so she took me to the hospital and she says i mean obviously i don't remember any of this i was four they ran frantically all over the place because they did some tests and at first they thought i had cystic fibrosis okay which is i believe fibrosis on the lungs they did their series of testing a biopsy skin i've still got the scar here today huge scar must have been a big big They have skin.

3:22They took a series of testing and they diagnosed me of liver congenital hepatic fibrosis. And they very much at that age said, OK, Sam's got this liver disease. From what we know now, his liver function is fine. But one day he may need a liver transplant. So we knew about this from the age of four. OK. But then over the next year and they said, you know, Sam's got to be careful. can't be punched in the liver not that I would you know everyone goes and gets punched in the liver but you've got to be careful I couldn't do rugby or stuff like that and I was seen every quite regularly in the hospital at the Royal Free Great Ormond Street Hospital but as I got older and my experience that I will tell you I had this conversation with my mum recently is very different to her experience but I'll tell you my experience so as I've grown up I've known I've had this disease and I, but I didn't pay it much attention because I was always told to live my life normally.

4:29So from four to the age of 27, I would go every three months to the hospital and that would be spaced out to every six months to every year. Every single appointment, they would do blood, urine. Your liver functions fantastic. So at age of four, I might need a liver transplant at 16. We're now 27. Absolutely fine. We don't need to see you till next year. Well, nothing's going to happen at this rate. You kind of start to think, not you're invincible. You don't. But you think this wasn't going to ever affect me. Yes. And then last year, very weirdly, never been hit by anything. I thought I got the flu.

5:14Had a little bit of an asthma attack. I've always had asthma. And I started to get really, couldn't get better. I couldn't get better. And I had this really bad back pain. So I was seeing the GP, went into A &E a few times. I had my asthma under control from A &E admissions. But I couldn't get rid of this back pain. And I always felt like I had the flu. And this persisted for another two weeks. And we were getting close to Christmas. we weren't doing any of the Christmas things that we wanted to do Alice and I why because you were just poorly just poorly didn't go we we loved to go to Winter Wonderland like maybe every other day we went once and I really wanted to do my Christmas shopping so I really got myself out of bed because I was so excited to get my friends and my fiance now fiance at the time she was only my girlfriend I was excited to get everyone's presents so I was like we're going shopping we're going to uh harrods of course we're going to harrods yeah and i was extremely thirsty i had a liter bottle of water and i drank the whole thing in an hour i was so dehydrated i thought i was so dehydrated i went to alice i can't quench my thirst after being there for an hour when i was sitting down i was doing a friend's engagement presence i was sitting down i was going and I had more to do, more shopping.

6:43And I went to Alice, I can't do this. I feel too ill. I feel like really fluid. I need to go home. For the next two days, I basically laid in bed. Alice thought I was taking too much codeine for the back pain. I wasn't. I was taking normal amounts. But the symptoms I was posing were that of delirium, dehydration. Now you look back on it. I was a little bit jaundice. Yes. I was a little bit crusty lips. And you don't put two and two together because you've never experienced anything like that. So you didn't recognize the signs. That's why I'm such a massive advocate for the sepsis signs today. Okay.

7:25We didn't recognize the signs. We didn't know what those signs were. What was happening, we've got, well, on the Monday I was meant to be flying to Dubai for work. And Alice came back from her work and I was still in bed. Hadn't moved. she went something's wrong she spoke to my mum they got me into A &E when I got into A &E they went yeah you're you're you're not well are you so they they were like they couldn't understand at first I did my blood and the doctor came back and he went you're not you're not well are you Sam and I went no I really don't feel well there's something wrong in my body he went yeah you're going into organ failure my CRP was up in the 400s okay and uh well CRP is that what protein almost tests I think inflammation of yeah in your body yeah yeah and it shows so normally your normal level should be below three milligrams okay you know zero to a hundred there's a mild infection hundred to two hundred serious infection get to A &E mine was in the 400s wow like like basically borderline that the next the next step from that is basically you're dead right that infection rate as they were.

8:32The doctor was white in the face from seeing that infection rate. How close do you believe you were to dying in that moment? I mean, so we don't think at that point we really knew. It wasn't until I came out of hospital two weeks, three weeks later where I spoke to one of the doctors who had seen me. And she went, look, we obviously weren't going to say it to you at the time. And I laughed from, I don't know, trauma properly. um but you you we didn't know if you were gonna make it you know you were touch and go you know you came to us and we were like 50 50 yeah that that was a big shock to hear from when the doctors when we heard that that that made just like major stomach sink absolutely and this was sepsis yeah so okay due to my condition so this is all later found with later testing and everything the journey for the last year was what had happened is with my liver disease when your liver starts so i have fibrosis of my liver so basically imagine a liver a nice smooth organ mine's very bumpy and those bumps are the fibrosis and your biliary tree is where the bile passes through your liver okay and the bumps have started constricting that biliary tree stopping the bile from moving When the bile can't move, it sits and bacteria can gather and start an infection.

10:00So what had happened is obviously my disease has progressed over so many years. But now to a point where that bacteria can build and I can get these infections. And we didn't recognize I had an infection. And because we didn't recognize, that infection became septic. Okay. Now, sepsis is any infection that gets out of control. Interesting. Okay. Any infection. Blood poisoning. You know, there's common misconceptions. But any infection in your body that gets out of control is sepsis. All right. And when it gets out of control, what is it? Is it that your body is basically attacking itself? Well, it starts, all the infection starts spreading into all the other parts of your body.

10:43You know, so... It runs rapid. What I didn't... It starts to shut down your organs. I was so ignorant to what sepsis was, and I think this is in part... Real law. Yeah, what's beautiful about what you're doing is you're helping to destroy ignorance, right? I started looking at sepsis, you know, with you coming in, and these are some stats that I didn't realize. And some of these are dark. um so yeah one is in the uk five people die every hour from from sepsis uh the sepsis trust estimates about 48 000 people die each year from sepsis related illnesses however thousands are preventable yeah i didn't know this just by recognizing the signs so like like me i mean now i look back on it and I've had infection since and never got to that stage because you look back on it if you've got a temperature if you've got a fever if you've got if you're dehydrated if you've got extreme pains these are like I mean I know it's funny but these are you think when I say them like that it's like oh yeah that's obvious signs to get into hospital but when they're happening and then they they progress quickly you don't recognize them so as clearly as the stats say people don't recognize them and sometimes it's not all of them sometimes it can just be one of them so it's about understanding what those signs are and if you have any get into the A &E okay pull it out make sure it's not so the ask the question it could it be sexist it could be fair so the core signs from your experience were just for us to to to unpack it fever temperature delirium and dehydration dehydration i got to a stage where i was quite bad so i was experiencing all the signs okay yeah now i know and testament to this now i know those signs every time i've had a reinfection since i've got straight into a and e i've got on antibiotics and i've been fine i've been out with a few days so now I understand the signs I don't think I'll ever become septic again and I don't think I'll ever have a fear touch wood wherever it may be that I would ever you know be in that position again because I understand the signs all right so it's about understanding them there this is very important very very extremely the was it the sepsis that then required your need for a liver transplant no this is something else it's what what it was the sepsis was came from my liver disease so the infection came from my liver disease which came out of control which became septic but the the core problem was my liver disease which is why i need a liver transplant i get this notification on the nhs app alice is at work i'm home alone and i go oh it's a letter from King's College, I get a letter after every appointment, open it up, and it's literally a four-line letter, and it goes, Dear Sam, after reviewing your latest CT scan, these are in line with your condition.

14:00We're sending you for liver transplant assessment. I mean, that was, yeah, receiving that, I think your heart, yeah, your heart stops, your tummy drops. Yeah. In that moment, if we can go back and revisit that moment, you're describing emotively what's happening. What are you thinking in that moment? Fear. Yeah. Terrified. Fear of what? Am I going to die? Yeah.

14:45You're engaged. You know that you are a father-to-be. How does that impact your thoughts? I always get sad when I think, my dad's never going to see his grandchild. To now start having that thing dawn on you, am I going to see my child? That's terrifying.

15:13This is the part, Sam, that I can't fathom, you know? So we have an opt-out system in the UK for organ donation. So everyone automatically thinks, oh, my organs will be donated. Actually what happens is 1 % of deaths are likely for you to be able to give your organs because obviously a lot of deaths, your organs won't be viable for transplant. Okay, well, I did not know this. Only 1 % of deaths. Only 1 % of deaths are viable for organ donation. Yeah. Okay. So, what that means, and those circumstances of those deaths are usually ones of surprise. So they haven't had those conversations. So yes, we're an opt-out system, but what happens, imagine, and this is quite crass, I'm going to give you the imaginary situation.

16:06Imagine a young lad has been hit by a car. His organs are fine. That family, we've got an opt-out system. Transplant coordinators come to speak to the family. The family go, okay, so there's an opt-out system, so yes, we can. But the family can still opt out. And 50 % of the time, they do because they don't know the intentions or the wishes of their children. Oh, okay. So 50 % of the time, those organs aren't donated. Now, if everyone confirms their decision of what they want, then that increases to 90%. And that's why there's a necessity to confirm your decision. And that's what I'm trying to raise awareness for.

16:50I see. And a really, really hard-hitting fact, right? Did you know you're two to three times more likely to need an organ than you are likely to be able to give an organ? No, no. So there is more chance, and I'm sorry to be crass here with your family, there's more chance that someone in your family would need an organ than any of you would be likely to ever give an organ. Which shows the importance of... Yeah, and then there's the big ethical debate. If you're willing to take an organ from someone, surely you should be willing to give your organs. It's an extremely complex issue. All I'm advocating for is if you know you want to give your organs, just confirm your decision because 50 % of the time if you did die in a manner where your organs would be viable your family wouldn't donate it so go confirm your decision and make sure that they know what that is have that conversation with them but also confirm it online so there is you know it's already been done it takes the pressure off them what their wishes are so looking at organ donation too is this is just mind-blowing if you look at the numbers over 8 ,000 people in the UK are currently waiting for an organ transplant 650 people in the uk are currently waiting for a liver transplant and in 2022 to 2023 almost 500 people died simply by by waiting on the transplant list which to your point underscores the importance of this because those organs were available like i literally just shivered all over the hair standing up of my legs yeah it's it's just it's just one of those where it is a i mean that's 500 unnecessary deaths yes yes yes so then currently you are on a waiting list i'm being sent for a liver transplant assessment there's another dilemma to the whole before you go on the list they have to make sure you're going to survive the surgery effectively.

18:54Less big of a deal for me, you know, I'm a fit. I like to believe I'm fit and healthy and young and, you know, whatever. There's obviously a lot of other people that are a little bit elderly, pre-existing other conditions which can implicate things. So it makes it harder for them to survive the surgery. So those numbers you said, it doesn't even take into account all of those people that actually need a transplant list but don't even get onto the waiting list. Wow. So physically you have to be at a certain level. It's a 12-hour surgery. It's a 12-hour surgery. It's a liver transplant, yeah. Wow.

19:31So kidneys are amazing, right? They transplant them like through keyhole surgery. We're so advanced on kidney. But liver, slightly more tricky. And obviously as you go up the vital organs, it gets even trickier, you know, heart and lung being a very very I mean I think we did the world's first double lung transplant the other day okay yeah okay amazing I mean it's fantastic yeah if you look at the the advances of medical technology it's just it's it's a blessing to to be alive you know in this day and day and age you've hit on something really really important and this is why I'm an optimist This is why I'm a positive person.

20:14And I don't go what I did for one day. Go, why me? Why does it happen to me when I had my breakdown? But I go, how lucky am I that I was I'm living in this time frame. If I was born in my granddad's or before, I wouldn't be so lucky. I wouldn't make it past my mid 30s. you know so i'm lucky i'm lucky to be born this time frame where we're able to do a liver transplant nearly every day we do one okay every day we're doing a liver transplant i mean how amazing is that yes and then also the fact that you're going to receive a liver from someone who wanted yeah you know yeah that's amazing yeah that i mean that's that's beautiful uh yeah i mean yeah i mean i hope um i had a really good friend um guy named daniel werb unfortunately a couple years ago he passed away from a brain aneurysm and the way i describe him was the kindest man you'll ever meet much like yourself you have that nice genuine aura to you and quite like him, just a very kind person.

21:31And he had that conversation with his family a month before and said, if I was to pass away, why wouldn't I give my organs to someone who needs them? I don't need them anymore. And he said this to his family. So when that time came, he saved four people's lives. His sister reached out to me recently and spoke to me and she said, thank you for raising awareness on your story because it made me realize how important it is to keep speaking about Daniel's story. And that really touched me. I mean, that's humanity at its best, right? I mean, I've received thousands of messages. It's obviously there's a big thing about you with livers.

22:11You can do live transplants and there is it shows humanity at its finest. I have not seen one negative message, you know, thousands of these messages. And I sometimes see some of them pop up. And, you know, there are so many, I wish I could reply to them all. But I mean, I would spend all day on social media replying to messages. And there are people who are offering to do the live transplant to give half their livers. And I think that is humanity at its finest. Think about it. I mean, think about that. Yeah. Isn't that, you know, we talk so much about how terrible society is. Yeah. But then here you have all of these people who probably have never met you.

22:54Yeah. Willing to give up half their liver for you. Yeah. I mean, you'll sit here with me and you'll see that I talk about everything in a positive light. And you'll see that Alice, you know, what she says about me in that video, I'm such a positive person. So I see everything for the better. I see people for the better. And I see all the optimism. And that's all I talk about. I talk about the goodness, you know. So I think strive to be in the light, keep away from the dark. Absolutely. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page.

23:28Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

23:47Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant. What would happen if I stopped doing it? You stalled. You freeze to death. That's what. With great power comes great deniability. I'm not the first daddy. Digger. See the trailer online. Only in the years October 2nd. Rated R. under 17 on a minute without parent. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other.

24:29A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season, you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. Thank you.