The Conversations That Could Save Lives: We’re Talking Suicide Prevention

0:00This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans. Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I sit down with Nadia Hussain and Tyler West for an incredibly honest conversation about the experiences we carry from childhood, how they can shape us as adults, and what happens when we keep them to ourselves.

0:46This episode includes discussions of suicidal thoughts and mental health struggles. Please watch with care.

1:05What are some of those other incidents that happened while you were a little girl at school? Because there are many that you've talked about. Yeah, I was really badly bullied at school from the age of four to about 17, 18. Oh, wow. Same two boys. And I never told anyone about that. they would flush my head down the toilet they would expose themselves to me they have tried to sexually assault me while I was in the street they have held me down and smashed my fingers into hinges of doors they have ripped my hair out it was every single day from the age of about four or five to about 17 or 18. Every day.

2:04Every day. Yeah. I even went to an all-girls school but they were next door in the all-boys school so they would wait for me to come out. So it's almost like they got their fix. And the reason why they bullied me was because I was the I had the darkest skin in school. They were very fair, rosy-cheeked Pakistani boys. So they're pretty much, you know, they're the same sort of culture as me. But they were bright white with rosy pink cheeks and dark black hair, and that's what our community celebrated. Fair-skinned men. Perfect. Tick-tick. They're perfect. And there I was, short, dark-skinned girl with really big curly hair and they just, that was the thing.

3:00And they bullied me every single day, every single day. So this is one where there were some incidents that happened for me when I was a child, but sparingly. Okay, yeah. And what's interesting for me is it's not until I've started having these conversations here with We Need to Talk where I've begun to contemplate on how those incidents have shaped who I've become today. You had, this is severe trauma that's happened for an extended period of time in your adolescence when you're trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is. So how do you think that impacted how you saw yourself as a little girl?

3:47I think it's made me really, really protective of my feelings and it's made me really insular I think it's made me not trust people because I don't trust people easily

4:07but it's also made me a people pleaser I think I'm I just want to make everyone happy because I don't want like I don't want negativity and I just want like people pleasing all the time It's like, as long as everyone's happy, as long as everyone's happy. But that's probably partly to do with the fact that, you know, I grew up in quite a volatile home. You know, my parents always argued. I just wanted everyone to always be happy. We didn't talk about anything bad. It was just always be happy. But it's, yeah, it's also made me really strong. It's also made me a really good mom. Okay. But as a little girl, how do you think it impacted you?

4:49It got so bad that one afternoon, I remember my cousin, they were a little bit older than I was, and we were watching a film, clearly not for me because it was like an 18 or something. And somebody committed suicide. And I was like, oh, so that's it. So if you commit suicide, you're just dead and everything else just stops. So in my head, bearing in mind at this age, I don't know what death is. Don't really understand death. Yes. You were how old at this time? Ten. You're ten. Ten. Something twigged in my head at ten that that's what I should do. And this person had taken loads of pills. I thought, wow, there's pills lying around everywhere.

5:39Because there was no such thing as a safe cupboard for pills. It was like paracetamol here and blood pressure meds here. And so I took out back in the day when you could get 100 paracetamols in a pack. I was like, that'll do. Took those off the shelf, went upstairs with a big glass of water. I thought, I'll just take as many of those as I can because that's what happened. I'll die and then I don't have to go to school tomorrow. That is how innocent it was. It was if I die, I don't have to go to school tomorrow. And that's what I did. So I was like, OK. and I was 10 I couldn't swallow pills and they were huge so I was trying to swallow them and I probably got had a liter of water in me but at this point my bladder was bursting and I was like right I'm just gonna have to crush them and just chew them and I think I so I started to chew them and crush them in my mouth and then I was just like swallowing them I was like this is gross and I just couldn't do it.

6:40I may have got through maybe three or four. Okay. That's it, three or four at best. And my dad called us all down because he had something to tell us. So I thought, okay, I'll give this a break. I'll go down. So I went downstairs and then he told us that my mom was pregnant with a baby. And then I went upstairs and I kind of packed everything away and I said, okay well I'll do it once the baby's born because I really want to meet the baby wow and then that baby was born and I fell so in love with him and he's 30 next month look at that yeah would you say he saved your life yeah yeah I say that to him all the time that's that that is one of those where I can see you as this little girl just saying I just don't want to be it wasn't even I don't want to go to school that I don't want to go through that pain of those nasty boys yeah you know and in that one moment your brother who is not yet here saved you because of your love yeah for him yes similar to your grandfather yeah who had this love for these children who are not right but but you had this love for you for your brother you know it hurts me to hear that you had no one to talk to during that time you know we can talk about mental health yeah and anxiety because this is something that you have battled for quite quite a long time yeah when did anxiety first creep into your life do you believe when when was that moment where i would say you actually began having panic attacks um i started to have panic attacks at seven or eight okay but I would yeah that was quite young and I used to have them and then make excuses to not be in a public place whether that's home school and then I would have them in bathrooms or toilets at school or um I got into the habit of having them into pillows so I would have panic attacks in pillows so I got really good at hiding them So maybe six or seven.

8:59And for all of us who may not know what a panic attack is, what is it? It manifests itself in lots of different ways, and I think it's different for lots of people. But for me, it's really shallow breathing. You can feel your heart in your head. It races, and you can feel your heartbeat. You get really hot, really sweaty. You struggle to breathe and just tears. There's lots, I cry and just, and I get, feel really faint and I feel really, really faint. So I have to be low down so I don't faint. And I've had panic attacks so bad that I have passed out and then woken up and be like, what's, what's just happened?

9:39So that's how they manifest for me. But, and they, and I can feel them coming. You know, when they're coming, you have little triggers and sometimes you can just, I can feel it in my chest. Like I can, it's deep. I can feel it as you can feel it there like I can feel it there so I know when it's coming but as I've gotten older I've kind of learned to manage them and another thing that's huge with my mental health and anxiety is all I've wanted from a really young age is to cure it to say I need a cure I need something to fix me I need something to fix it and what I've really come to accept is that there's no fix.

10:23There's no quick fix. There's no pill. There's no operation. There's nothing that's going to fix you. You have to, the only way you really can fix it is, is to, to learn, to give yourself the toolbox to, to manage it. So I have certain ways that I manage my anxiety and I'm naturally quite a chaotic person. So I kind of here, there and everywhere and I love routine and so things like routine if something goes out of place and I'm like oh something's moved back by half an hour I that would that would send me into overdrive and that could cause me to have a panic attack and letting go of some of that has really helped me to be like it's all right does not matter the way I describe it is my monster so I wrote a kid's book many many years ago describing what anxiety feels like for me and it's called my monster in me and it's a monster and sometimes my monster is so big it's in my face and I can't do anything and and and I found ways of making my monster small and sometimes my monster is really big and I can't manage and sometimes it's kind of medium-sized and it kind of follows me around and taps me on the shoulder and sometimes it's teeny tiny and I can just put it in my pocket and I can walk around with it but it doesn't go away and that's how I describe anxiety to children okay and so and that's been hugely helpful for me educating people and explaining and advocating for those people who don't have voices and saying look this is how you know they're because part of a huge part of mental health is conversation and talking to people you trust and love who will take that information and and and not judge you for and and and there be no judgment in in um being honest about how you feel.

12:14So I kind of, that's how I kind of describe my mental health is my monster. And like, it's very much in my pocket a lot of the time. I see it. There was one interview where I literally saw the, you say, we need to talk. Yeah. Oh God. Yes. We need to talk more about this, right? This is the key. The key is the communication. Yes. And what I love is that You have been really, I think, at the forefront of what I'll call the mental health wave that has begun. And we're nowhere near where we need to be in terms of talking about it. But I felt like you were really at the forefront of beginning to really talk about it.

12:53And very, I think, in a very noble gesture, you were able to disclose about your anxieties and panic attacks. One of the best things I learned about having anxiety, apart from the actual needing to talk, the bit where we actually talk is vulnerability. Because the hardest thing is to be, one of the hardest things when you have a mental health illness is to be vulnerable. Because you don't want to be seen as weak. And letting your guard down and saying, I'm going to be vulnerable with you is a huge, it's a huge, you have to really trust somebody to give somebody that. and all I can do is like, the truth is I don't know who I'd be without anxiety and who I am is someone I'm really proud of and it's made me a better wife.

13:40It's definitely made me a better daughter. It's made me a better mother. It's going to make me an excellent grandma. Oh yeah.

13:51This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose.

14:29Ah, yes! I like that. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live.

14:58Are you open to talk about what you witnessed at 14? Yeah. So if we go back to the start, it's, so again, on my council estate, it's kind of like everyone knows everyone. And then there was like some local alcoholics, right? So I finished an after school club and I'm coming back off or I get off the bus and I'm coming up and walking up my road and I'm on the phone to my mom because she don't know how to work the TV. And I'm like, mom, listen, I'm going to be back in a second. and it was about, I want to say, five to eight, say for example. Then by the time I've got up to where my house is, there's these guys that live opposite having an argument, just literally out in the middle road, it's just me and them.

15:43And then I've ignored it, gone inside, and I said to my mum, I was like, oh, those alcoholics are arguing again, because that's what happens on the council say, it's always so, so busy. and then I've gone upstairs, dumped my bag in my room and I was like, oh, I'm going to be, I'm just going to see what this argument's about. I've pulled the blinds up, turned the light off and I'm watching now. It was like a two-on-one argument. One of the two men, for a really, really weak punch to the man that was on his own. And the man that was on his own, by this point, my mum's coming up the stairs on the phone to the police.

16:15By this point, the man's sort of walking towards my house. So now he's not far. and he's just fallen it looked like he was on the phone but he's just falling on his face and then i'm like oh mum that like they're proper fighting and then all of a sudden the two men have like walked closer to the man that was laying in the road and one of the two men had a 12 inch kitchen knife in his hand and what he had done was uh cut and slashed the man's neck open and the man was holding it and has then fallen onto the ground in the middle of the road And then the phone call with my mum went on It must have been about 7-8 minutes with the police And in that 7-8 minutes The man did not stop slashing and stabbing And slashing and stabbing And it went on and on and on And I was just frozen I remember it Then my mum naturally as a nurse She's like I've got to help And my mum's got some towels and she's gone to run out there.

17:19And then I've seen the two men coming out of the apartment and I've run down and I've dragged my mum inside the house. I said, you can't go out there yet, you can't go out there. They've then gone back inside the house and then my mum goes out there and I follow her out and she's got these towels on this man. She's on the phone to the police and she said, there's too much blood, there's too much... Like, he was wearing an England shirt and it was a white England shirt, it was just covered in red. and I was just seeing this man and it was like, it didn't feel real, it felt like something from a horror movie.

17:52And I was just there laying in front of me and I'm literally as close as we are now.

17:59And the police turned up, it was like a big rush, like the police called him off the road and then they went in and arrested the two men. It was tear gas, there was like, there was a lot going on and then I heard a voice at the other end of the road and it was my brother. because by the time my mum got off the phone to the police, she had phoned my brother. She was so hysterical on the phone to my brother. My brother thought it was me. So then my brother's screaming at the police, let me up, let me up, it's my brother, it's my brother. And then he's run up the road and looked at this guy and said, oh, thank God, and then came into the house and said, look, Ty, you're all right.

18:36And I was on the sofa having a panic attack. I don't remember from seeing the man laying on the floor to then being on my sofa. it was the hardest moment of my life, without a doubt. And it changed my world forever. At 14, you're thinking about what you're processing. At 14, you're going through this traumatic experience. As you're watching what's happening, your mother's on the phone, I would imagine that you could not look away. No way. Because my mum always says it. She goes, oh, Ty, my biggest regret is that I didn't pull you away from that window. I didn't protect you and everything like that.

19:17But I was like, that's how I feel about you. You know, not letting you, I know you're a nurse, but I didn't need to let you go out there and be trying to say this, man. But that's just who we are. That's just within us. That's who we are. And, you know, I had no idea the knock-on effect it would have to this day on my life. You know, from immediately after, I mean, it was really hard. my mom did everything to get us moved from that council estate to just further down the road and that's what eventually happened she went to the authorities she went to you know um the council and the police and said look i need you to help because my son won't come out of his bedroom for the best part of two years i my life was just i couldn't you couldn't what what was going on in your world in the the two years from that attack certain things and certain habits started to kick in like I for one I couldn't open my blind every single morning I get out of bed I had to make my bed because otherwise some I was convinced something bad would happen to me um I would couldn't use a knife and fork I couldn't if anything sort of happened in an action movie and it was like anything to do with a knife absolutely not even to this day like Molly my partner Molly she she hides my eyes because she's like you okay and she checks in on me and I'm like it's still so raw even like I've just come to the conclusion that I will never I will never get that image out of my head I live with it every single day I couldn't walk on the same side of the street that it happened you could see where the blood like that part of the the street was cleaner than the rest of it because the where the blood had been cleared up there were there was just a lot and anytime alcohol or drugs were involved in in an environment or a setting I was in I would immediately put my back up I'm like I'm convinced somebody's gonna die here so I'm convinced there's going to be a fight.

21:09I'm convinced it was like all of this PTSD that I just couldn't get rid of. Yes. And it turned me into the protector, really. It turned me into the person that I'd be the first to step in and separate people because I wouldn't want it to get to that. To get to what you thought would be the literal demise of someone. So within the two years too is your mother, I would imagine, she's trying, she doesn't know what to do with you, right but she's trying her best what was the relationship like between your mother and your brother during those two years the thing is when something significant like that happens it's a ripple effect right it's like dropping a stone into into a pond and it does all the little ripple effects outside and it doesn't just affect the man that's getting stabbed and the families and the victims or anything like that it affects the community around it and there's some things that then i can't unsee that i have to live with every single day but that man over there you know I got so many questions for him.

22:05So many questions for the man that did it. Like, do you even remember it? Because he was high and drunk at the time. And it was all to do over a 20-pound bag of cocaine. And that's crazy that, you know, life can just be gone in an instant. Yes. And that, yeah, it was my relationship with Lou and mum's relationship with Lou during that time was tough because I didn't want to talk about anything. I my sort of reaction to it all was no I can't talk about it whereas my mum just wanted to keep talking about every detail and go over it and over it and that was probably the worst decision I ever made like not talking about it was not talking about it yeah why so because it built up a lot a lot a lot like it was just like sweeping it under the carpet to the point that then it was unavoidable and then it all came out at once in so many different ways to the point that yeah i i i track him myself like it was tough it was really tough man you tried to take your life i i went there was one night my mum doesn't even know this there was one night i must have been like and this is this is years after it now this is years after the two years and i've gone in the middle of the night i've had this like this the thoughts it comes over me like a cloud right and the thoughts come over me and then I'm like I can't stop thinking about it and I was I was there in the middle of the night and I got out of bed and I went for a walk I think I even was like going for a breakup at the time and stuff like that it was like a really just wild time and I went um for a walk down the A217 in Sutton okay and there's a bridge that goes across and it would usually be whenever I tried to get into my fitness bag and go on runs that would be the run route and there's this bridge that goes across and I can't remember how long I was out on this bridge for.

23:57I can't remember, my phone was dead, everything. It must've been about half four or five in the morning. And I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I felt so low and I felt like, well, I can't stop thinking about this. I just wanna switch it off for a second and just a second. But then that second, and then I was like overthinking about that thought process. And I'm like, well, you're here now. And then like, how are you gonna explain it? How are you gonna bounce back from this? How are you ever gonna come to terms with it? and it's like this overthinking overthinking effect and there was a no cars out at that time and then there was just one car that came past right and the car beeped and then I was like you're not gonna do this I was like you can't I was like no way can you I went back home I got into bed and I woke up and I was like morning mom I just went about my day and it's kind of that that low moment right there i always think about the things that have happened in my past from growing up and and feeling like a real big struggle with abandonment seeing lives just vanish in front of me yes i see all of these things and i think about those low moments and they push me to where i go today like they keep me going further they're actually my biggest strength and my biggest strength comes about from from talking about things yes but at that point it sounds like you were not to your point earlier you were not talking about these things but you never mentioned that incident to your mother did you ever mention that to anyone else i spoke to i spoke to molly about it um now so it's more so now because i'm okay and you don't want to burden people you don't want to worry them whereas now i'm like yeah man i'm i'm fighting for it i'm still still working it out i'm still still you know like powering through everybody always looks at you and goes oh yeah ty you're the confident one you're the you know you're doing that oh you was on strictly swear down yeah it was great but i'm still like with inside i've still got that 14 year old self that's like shook like absolutely shook but you know it's each day that goes past every hour that goes past it's all things moving forward yes moving not necessarily moving away from it because it's always there, but another day of dealing with it better.

26:15Another day of being better. Yes. Isn't that something how we always say, and you just said it, that we don't want to burden our loved ones. So therefore we just hold it. But you would want all your loved ones to tell you. Yeah, that's insane. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.

26:58This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose.

27:36Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss, you always like this? Or is this just an act, oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live.