The Truth About ADHD In Adults with Mel Robbins, Katie Price and Caity Baser - We're Talking ADHD

0:00This episode is brought to you by Marshalls, where you never have to compromise between quality and price. The buyers of Marshalls hustle hard, working to bring you great deals on brand name and designer pieces. Because Marshalls believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. Visit a Marshalls store near you or shop online at marshalls.com. Hello and welcome to We're Talking. This week, we're diving into ADHD, a topic that's come up time and time again on We Need to Talk. It's often misunderstood, especially in adults, and research suggests that fewer than 20 % of adults with ADHD actually know they have it.

0:41Today, you'll hear from Katie Price, Mel Robbins, and Katie Baser, who share their experience candidly. From late diagnoses and daily challenges to navigating relationships and careers with a differently wired brain. This week, we're talking ADHD.

1:11there was a it was an adhd diagnosis that she had but as an adult yes so my mum kept saying like she always says you're always like about even when you sit there you move around a lot you're quite like this you're like erratic behavior and you're impulsing with this that I'm like, I don't know, Mum, this is me. And she said, there's something not right about your brain. I said, I don't know, ADHD or something. She goes, well, you need to be tested. So I went to Harley Street. She found, my mum's quite good at this, finding not just any doctor, like specialists in it all. So went and saw that. It's not cheap either for anyone listening because you can do it through NHS and that, but I think it takes ages.

1:56I don't know if it's the same. So we went somewhere proper and they literally just ask you some questions and you feel when they're looking at you. And then I'm thinking, am I moving too much? You sort of feel a bit. I don't know. There's the aura with them because, you know, they're looking at you asking questions. And then they send my family forms to fill out. I'm not allowed to look at it. And they fill out forms from childhood, ask loads and loads of questions, quite a lot. then I have to do the same, but then I need help because believe it or not, I have to have an appropriate adult with stuff.

2:30Like if it's caught and stuff, because I can't concentrate. Oh really? So to this day, you have to be... I've been diagnosed that I have to have an appropriate adult. Did you not know that? I did not know that you still... Yeah, and people will be like, what's that? And I'll tell them in a minute. So I'm not very good at reading. I can read, of course I can read. But I'll read it all and then I'll get bored or then I'll start thinking of something else. So I find it hard to focus on forms and filling out forms. So I filled it all out. And then I remember I was in Thailand getting my tattoos done and he rang me and said, so have I got ADHD or what?

3:08Like me being me goes, well, what do you think, Kate? I went, well, probably nuts like that. And he went, no, you severely got it. so then they were saying my mum's obsessed about you need medication for it so because you're so erratic this and that and I'm like mum medication's not the answer to everything and so they tried me on two different ADHD meds it was frightening didn't work they gave me another one and I thought I was gonna have a panic attack my heart's racing all of this they said stop they said the medication's not working with you obviously have learned how to deal with it yourself so now i understand about adhd that your brain is wired different but i've learned how to deal with like i say the impulsiveness the um the answering the text messages try not to be erratic let people talk listen to people and it's helped a hell of a lot.

4:11Wow. So how is it that... So the appropriate adult. How's that? So I've had a lot of court stuff, even like the bankruptcy stuff. That was all like... So I've been diagnosed about 18 months ago. I didn't understand anything and like when I was getting all letters with my breakdown, I didn't really understand everything so I'd leave it to the side because I didn't understand or read it all. You're like, oh, I'll do it later. I'll do it. Put it off, put it off, put it off. because I didn't really understand what was going on. So that's how the bankruptcy got into that because I wasn't communicating, wasn't doing anything.

4:45So then I've had a lot of court things, serious court things I've had to deal with behind the scenes, which people don't know about. And they're like, no, because of her diagnosis and the way she needs to have an appropriate adult. Really? So is that the court that said this? Yeah, the courts and the doctors, because they assist you and stuff, yeah. So is this for the rest of your life that you'll... With things, if there's a court thing, or say if I get arrested by the police, which I have been, it's on the record that I have to have an appropriate adult in with me. So this is an appropriate...

5:20That's something new no one knows about me. Explain to people what an appropriate adult is because people don't... You'll explain it better than me. No, no, no, because I was going to ask, because with the appropriate adult... Yeah, from what you know, tell me what that is. From what I understand is it is an adult that is assigned to you. So 18. I guess the law in the U.S. would be 21, but here it might be 18. But an adult who's assigned to you and this person is there to help you in making these decisions. Yes. So to ensure that your rights in essence are protected. So not necessarily a lawyer, but that you understand what it is that's happening.

6:01Yeah. It's exactly that. But I had no idea that you had this assigned. Yes. Wow. And now I wish, that's why I said I wish years ago people knew that I had this ADHD and the appropriate adult making decisions with contracts. Exactly. Things like this. Exactly. Your life would have been mapped out different. I mean, I still would have been successful and done what I'd done. but I think it would have helped in so many ways. In so many ways. I agree. I agree. That's fascinating. I did not know. Yeah.

6:49Now, you've mentioned that you were not diagnosed with ADHD until you were 47. So early in the relationship, you were unaware, right? No, and it drove him crazy. And I was going to ask you this in particular, too, because in the research, I found 80 % of adults are unaware. So 80 % of adults who have ADHD are unaware that they do. So how do you believe that that impacted your marriage? Well, first, let's talk about how it impacted me. Okay. So it's very important to understand that women are profoundly underdiagnosed, and there's a reason why. When they were studying ADHD as a clinical diagnosis, they only studied boys.

7:32And so when the diagnosis hit, it was mainly around hyperactivity. Boys and girls, based on their research, experience ADHD at largely the same levels. Girls for decades, like myself, went completely under the radar screen because while we experience the neurological difference, because it's like a structural functioning difference in a part of this part of the brain, people mistake it for not being able to pay attention. That's not what it is. It's being able to direct your attention when it requires effort. And it's also being able to shh outside noise while you're trying to direct attention.

8:19So you can have somebody with ADHD that is able to play a video game like this or read a book for hours. And then you're like, you don't have ADHD. You can focus. Well, that's because I'm interested in this and it doesn't require effort. But if I have to go do this thing over here, I hear everybody talking and I don't have a mechanism in my brain to like shh that down. and I don't have a mechanism in the brain to lift up the energy to just do this. And so with boys, there's a lot of fidgeting and this and that. And so there's the hyperactivity piece. With girls, it's the opposite. Most symptoms for girls is you go inward.

8:55You get self-critical. You kind of get lost in your thoughts. And so there is what psychologists call the lost generation of women. It's about a 20-decade span of women that are probably, I don't know what ages we would be now, but I'm like right smack dab in the middle of it. Women who had ADHD or some of these other kind of neurological learning style differences, we went undiagnosed. And then anxiety starts to come to the surface. and then you get medicated for anxiety for a long time when the real issue was actually ADHD. Because if you have dyslexia or dysgraphia or executive functioning issues or you've got ADHD or something else that is making it difficult for you to do what's being asked of you to do in school, the number one thing that happens is anxiety and self-criticism.

9:57Because you're sitting in a classroom like, why won't my brain work like everybody else's? And so women underdiagnosed and then medicated with anxiety. And then I got diagnosed the way that most women do. I had a child, our son Oakley, who was profoundly struggling in school. And luckily, this was at a moment in our lives where we were starting to be able to pay off the debt. My husband was out of the restaurant business. I was starting to gain traction in the speaking business. And so I could afford to pay, it was$5 ,000 to pay, to have a neuropsych eval done by a psychiatrist at Mass General Brigham in Boston.

10:40And sure enough, he had profound dyslexia, profound ADHD, profound dysgraphia. The kid could barely write his name. He's in fourth grade. And yet he's like the most verbal kid on the planet. And he was having severe anxiety. And I was just, we were losing sleep over, we did not know what was wrong. And then we get this diagnosis. And I'm like, wait a minute. I'm sitting with this pediatrician. Shout out Mark Blumenthal. And I'm like, Mark, this kind of sounds like me. Like, I'm looking at this, like, test result. Like, this really feels, this sounds like me. And I say, do you think I might have ADHD?

11:16And he puts his papers down and he takes his readers off and he goes, do I think you have ADHD? Mel, you are the most ADHD parent I know. I'm like, what are you talking about? What do you mean? He's like, Mel, you are so intelligent. You're so successful. Do you know how many appointments you miss? You are the one parent that we know for sure is going to miss the annual appointment and then you're going to call in a panic before school because you need the physical done. You need it done yesterday. You are classic. And I look at him like, why didn't you tell me? He goes, I'm not your doctor. And so I went and got a formal evaluation and honest to God, I tried a long, whatever acting release Adderall.

12:04It was as if I had had terrible vision and all of a sudden put glasses on. Wow, look at that. I could not, I felt so bad for little me that I struggled all those years. And then, of course, I look at my oldest daughter and I'm like, oh my God, this is you. And I would imagine it's hereditary for the most part. I think so. Although Gabor Mate says that he also believes that the experience in utero and the state of your mother and the stress that she may be under is also something. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. So how did that then, so clearly that's how it impacted you. Yeah. How do you believe that not being diagnosed early in your marriage impacted that relationship with Chris?

12:51That's a great question. So I think the biggest thing is that it made it possible for Chris and I to embrace the fact that I'm not trying to be an asshole. Okay. That when I blow my nose in a Kleenex and I walk toward the garbage tan, I have the full intention of making it there. And then when the dog runs in front of me and I stop and pet the dog and I put the Kleenex here and then I stand up and I walk this way, it's not because I'm a slob or I'm trying to be rude to Chris. It's because I literally lost my focus for a second. And there are so many instances where Chris would feel slighted and disrespected because I hadn't, you know, I'd left a bunch of stuff in the sink with the full intention of coming back.

13:51You know, like those sorts of things that he would ask me over and over. And I would be really good for a couple days because I'm putting a lot of energy into doing it. And then I just forget it. and it has it really helped me be more compassionate with myself too because i'd beat myself up like i want if chris asked me to do something because you know mel it would make a huge difference for me if you were on time and then i'm on time for a couple days and then we go back to him sitting in the driveway in his pickup truck while i'm running around trying to learn spanish and find my shoe and pack a lunch for tomorrow morning.

14:31Yes. Which none of which needs to happen right now. And he, and then I'm like, oh my God, what am I doing? I get anything. I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to keep you. I'm sorry about that. I can clean it up quickly. And so it gave me something not to use as an excuse, but to basically say, this is something I have to work hard to manage. I'm not trying to be a jerk who is not sensitive to the things that would make your life easier. Yeah, yeah. You know, what blew me away, and as I was prepping for you, I saw that the divorce rate for couples where at least one has ADHD is twice as high. Really?

15:12That doesn't surprise me because I do think what ends up happening is that there are so many small things that build up. Like, I'll give you an example. A lot of us order a lot of stuff online. Yes. Cardboard boxes come to the house. Yes. Right? And there are two types of people in a relationship. There are the people that open up a box, and then they cut the box, and then they flatten the box, and then they put the box where it's supposed to go. And then there are those of us that open the box, and then we leave the box by the door. And then we put another box that's empty on top, like a giant Jenga puzzle that we intend to come to next.

15:50Or we just launch them into the garage, or we launch them down the stairs, fully intending to come next. This was a fight in our household forever. That Chris is Mr. Open up the box, flatten the box, put it where it belongs. He is so disciplined and regimented. I am like, my brain is like, if you put a bunch of mice in a cardboard box and we tip it over in a restaurant, that's my brain. And so he would get so frustrated with me. And then he finally sat me down. He said, look, when I see the tower of cardboard sitting next to the garage door, it makes me feel like you think I am your maid. It feels so disrespectful.

16:38I have asked you over and over and over again to do this. And now it feels like you're literally creating a cardboard middle finger. And when he explained it like that, I actually want to change because I don't want that habit to make him feel that way. Right. Because we have the tools and we know what we're dealing with, it makes it easier for him to give me a little bit of grace on the days that I forget or I'm running late. But it makes me want to try harder because these are skills you can build. But what happens if you don't know how to lean in, if you don't know how to talk about not what the person is doing, but how what they did impacts you, then all of these small micro moments of disrespect and judgment and resentment start to build up.

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20:05you talked about not being able to concentrate in school uh and i know you were diagnosed with adhd uh at what year well i wasn't really diagnosed i don't i don't think i was interesting okay but like i definitely have it 100 like when i was a kid i couldn't walk in straight lines i'd be like this like come on kate you walk in a straight no life was life was good life was actually quite good but i think the reason why i struggled so much is because i wanted to break the mold is that how you say it break the mold yes everyone was very happy with just sort of like buzzing about and doing the same thing but i was like i want to leave i want to go to like a big city i want to be a star and nobody really got it and i think that's why where i really struggled and i had a bit of like a shit time at school as well because i was quite a big character and people didn't really get that I was quite I'm quite an energetic person if you couldn't tell just a little bit just a little bit and that doesn't really bode well with like schools and exams and things and I wanted to be a singer in school and everyone was sort of like yeah good luck with that mate like I'm going to college and I'm studying chemistry what are you going to study Katie I was like music and music production and musical theatre because I want to be a star.

21:23And nobody understood it. No one got it. Now they want the guest list, though, don't they? I'm sure. I'm sure. But it sounds like not only did they not understand it, but they didn't believe you could do it. Yeah, they didn't believe I could do it. And honestly, like every lunch or break time, I would be in the music rooms playing the piano because I felt a lot of things when I was growing up and I never really knew how to explain how I was feeling. so I would like go to the music rooms and just sort of like play a chord and be like oh that's how I feel or like I used to love writing poems or writing stories like I've always been very creative in that sort of sense that's always been an outlet for me when people were pissing me off I go and write a diss track in the music room this makes sense right but also I'm like blessed that I work in an industry where I can just like like ADHD the fuck out you know I mean I mean do whatever I want.

22:17Absolutely. Let my brain think about what time it is in America and what I'm having for dinner next Tuesday. Yes. Like look at some of these stats, right? So you have in the UK, 2.6 million people have ADHD, have been diagnosed 2.6, 11.4 % of children in the US have ADHD, 7 % of children in the UK. But what I find to be, I feel effective is knowing that you have ADHD. yeah opposed to wondering if you do if if i do and why is there a different why is there a difference in me see i feel like i've always been really good at just being like that's how it is for me that's how it is that's how it is for me like i'm struggling with this because that's how it is for me you know i feel like i find security in that that's just how it is for me you you know why i would suspect that if i already guessed katie why all right this is this is a guess but I would guess that because everything you've told me about your upbringing makes you more in the emotionally avoidant category.

23:22And if you are emotionally avoidant, you kind of look at the world as it's me against the world. And I'm self-reliant. Right. And so typically this is what happens. So that would be my guess. That's a great guess. I'd say correct. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ADHD isn't just a label. It's a lens that helps you understand yourself and the world differently. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who might relate. And make sure you're subscribed so you never miss a conversation.

24:08Thank you.