"They Said She'd Never Walk, Talk or Go to University” How Ellie Goldstein Proved Everyone Wrong

0:00Welcome to We're Talking. In honor of World Down Syndrome Day, we're joined by Ellie Goldstein, model, dancer, and trailblazer, as she shares her journey from a challenging start in life to the Strictly Ballroom and the cover of Vogue. This episode is about resilience, representation, and rewriting expectations. Because Ellie isn't defined by a diagnosis. She's defined by who she is, unapologetically herself.

0:40So can we start with Strictly? Can we start with dancing? Yes. Let's start with this. What did you love the most about Strictly? And I think I could guess, but what did you love the most? So I have to say that I love these spray tans. Every Friday we get spray tans and it's so, so chilling and calming. And the way I do it, it's so cool. The spray on it and it's so clever. It's great. Oh my gosh. I didn't know you would say that. Spray tans. And how the makeup. Okay. Of course, the only characters I was in the live show. What else? I'm in my best life. Because I look like the best guy in the world.

1:31So many people are going to say this is an ignorant question, but only because I've never used this. Tell me about a spray tan real quick. Do you sleep in a spray tan? Yeah. You do? It doesn't rub off? So I'm going with the Express Dark Tan. Express Dark Tan. Yes. There you go. Does everyone on Strictly get a spray tan? Not everyone. Most. Amber had a tan. Then Alex had it, LeFran had it. Obviously I had it. Then we used to get like a spray tan. The toe had it. And he looked on the schedule every Friday to see who's having the tan. And that was confident. They were like keeping up outside. Did anyone on Strictly get more tans than you?

2:17No. No. Yeah, before I had about three. You had it every week. I had it about week one up till... Oh, no, Halloween week, I didn't do it. No, week four. Yeah, because it's Halloween week. Yeah, you didn't need it. All right, fair, fair. So with modelling, here's where I'd love to begin, is Zebedee Management. So this, from what I understand, is an agency committed to representing models with disabilities and alternative appearances. Yes. So Ellie was there. literally their first client and she's still with them. Really? I am. Oh my goodness. Yeah. We've got a very amazing relationship with the two girls who run it, Zoe and Laura and all the staff.

3:01The day that Ellie first went for that very first shoot, they said, you know, she's got such potential, her personality and her character and they just knew and they believed in her because we'd have sort of gone to other agencies previous, sent pictures, Ellie saw a few people, but we never heard back. Interesting. Yeah, like. Wonder why. Yeah. Wonder why.

3:30Oh, my God. And so, yeah, when we heard that they were opening and we were obviously, I was put on the phone to get her to have a speech. Get me the agent. Yes. and it all went from there. It did. You've modelled for Glamour magazine, Sports Direct, Avon, Amazon, Primark, Marie Claire, Body Shop, Boots, Spotify. Oh, my God. All of these. Of course, Victoria's Secrets. Yeah. Got to be in Barcelona. Went to Berlina, Barcelona this year for Schwarzkopf. for a score that was just before strictly we were in barcelone but this is i think that this needs just a you know a space of you are a bona fide international eight magazine covers i think i eight magazine covers yeah we have all these moments that are happening in your modeling career now there's one in particular that seems to be perhaps the most i think talked about at least publicly okay and that is this you could probably guess yeah no what do you think i don't know what else what else most i think i believe this is most talked about.

4:58You tell me what you think. Oh, Vogue.

5:04Ellie, literally, oh, Vogue. Oh, yeah, that little cover that I did up from Vogue. Vogue. Okay. So, this moment must have been a major moment for you both. Here you are on the cover of Vogue. This was always, you said, a dream of yours. A dream, yes. So now when you look back and you think about this moment, how does it feel? I don't know. Well, not awkward, no. Fun, not as much. Maybe it's a bit surreal. I guess it clearly did. Yes. Yeah, surreal. It is definitely surreal. And then, Yvonne, how does it feel for you to see your daughter, who you helped get into an agency at 16, then cover Vogue.

5:58Yeah, again like the shoot was lovely, we weren't told at all that she might make a cover then to be told that she's made the cover we were both screaming Well, at first when mum had a call we were in a taxi weren't we, coming home from another shoot. So this is 2023. Yeah, okay Yeah, it's 2020. Yeah, so every year something amazing happens. It just seems to get better. Best thing is please strictly. Forget Bug. Forget that. But this will build up to where you are now. Yeah, I know but Bake Off was great. Nanny was wonderful. She's a big show. But to me, no, it's not a big show. It's not fun against.

6:54Ellie just seems to handle whatever's thrown at her. Yes. It's almost like it's not a shock to you, you know? And I think that when people are walking in their excellence, it's typically not a big shock. But all of this from her career, like whatever she's done, it's never changed Ellie as a person. she's Ellie she's never changed I'm me which is amazing you know it hasn't changed the way she thinks I mean she's grown obviously and I think Strictly as well made you a better person and you had so many interviews and you know she just got better and better at talking to people and you know she grew as a person in that way Yes.

7:44Yeah, it's never changed her. Her. So it's interesting. You're really becoming what's called a multi-hyphenate, right? So you're a dancer. Do you sing as well? Yeah. No, I sing. Mom, say you sing. I sing to the band's songs, obviously. I don't think I can, but I sing to the band's songs at home, and I think it's good. Okay, so you think it's good. Okay, but you're definitely a dancer. Yes. You're a model. you're an actress you're also an author oh yes you do so many things you don't even know you're an author but so yeah how did these the idea for the books where did that come from shall i say yes so ellie was on loose women a couple of years ago and just after that a few I had a voice message from Katie Piper saying, have you ever thought of Ellie writing a book?

8:44I was like, no. So things happened pretty quickly. She put us in touch with her publishers and we had meetings and it just all sort of happened quite quickly. So Ellie had a ghostwriter. Lauren Wendell. And it took a good year or so, I think, but every week or so, a couple of hours, she would just chat her life to the ghostwriter. And then, obviously, there's my introduction about her life at the start and then everything. And then they involved some past primary school teachers, Ellie's dance teacher, Ellie's sister, Amy. So it's written from all different perspectives. Yes. And, yeah, it's a lovely book.

9:42And then a year after that, they come back to us and said, how about us or Ellie doing a kid's book from her debut book just to show, you know, that other kids that you can achieve whatever you want in life. and it's just a very fun, colourful book. It's incredible. Do you believe that, Ellie, you'll do more books? Yes. Yeah? Yeah, it was fun. It's always a my computer. Yeah, she's quite good. She's got a good imagination. Now, you mentioned, Yvonne, in the first book, there's a lot of the background story. Yeah. Right? From birth, early years. Yeah. I would love, could we, could we talk about that?

10:28Yes, go on. You were born, Ellie, in Essex, correct? So born, raised, currently live in Essex. So I was 38. During the pregnancy, I was fine. I had my usual scans and everything. And it was about two weeks or so before the due date and something didn't feel right. went for another scan and she was literally stuck across my stomach. I see. So they decided, you need a cesarean. Had a cesarean, that all seemed to go fine. They never brought her over to me straight away. She came out and the glimpse I saw of her, she was completely purple. The cord was right round her neck. What cord? The cord. What colored cord?

11:16I don't know. Millical cord. Yeah. Green or red? I don't know. So they took her away and they sorted her. That was all fine. Still hadn't brought her over to us. I was like, where is she? Is she okay? They said, there's a problem. What? But no one would talk to us. So they got me ready after surgery. Took us to a side room. Then brought Ellie in. And the midwife said, we think she's got Down syndrome. We're not sure. I said, well, what's that supposed to mean? I was a bit out of it from the cesarean. And they said, oh, someone will come to talk to you. Do not feed her. Don't do anything. She was screaming for a bottle.

12:03I'm so thirsty. I'm like, give me the bottle. I did. But this is very interesting to me. So you were brought to a side room. Yeah. They brought Ellie in for the first time. Yeah. So you were able to see her and colour her, which that is such an important moment. Yeah, of course. It was a while. You know, we kept asking him, where is she? And you didn't get answers. Four hours went past. Four hours? Four hours for them. Before anyone came back to see us. That's long. And so clearly she's been crying throughout this. She's hungry. Thirsty. Thirsty. I think obviously Sam must have popped their head in, but no team or anyone had come to us.

12:46My mum was outside. They wouldn't let her in the room. It was all really... Why not? Why not? I don't know. It was very odd, everything. You're thinking the worst, obviously. Then a team of seven people came in. Doctors, nurses. He scooped her out of the cot, held her in the air like this in her little nappy. Oh. This is Ellie. She's got Down syndrome. She will never walk, talk or go to university. University. University, just been born. My husband was like, what do we do? What are we meant to do? And the doctor said, there's some leaflets on a stand outside. Just grab one of these. And they disappeared.

13:31And I remember a nurse stayed behind and said, I'm really sorry about how that was handled. I'll get someone in to see you. She went and I said, can I feed her? And they were like, well, she needs checking. She probably won't be able to drink. Well, I said, right, this is enough. And we gave her a bottle and she was fine. Yay. And this other lady came in and a nurse rather and said, you OK? You OK? Looked at Ellie. Said, oh, the last mother who had one of these left it here. Do you want to do that? Even saying that now. I was like, no. Really? It's very good. When I talk about it is like yesterday.

14:10But you're fine. I'm fine. It's fadicking. No, I'm not. Make sure that it was. It's like reliving, you know. What are you talking about? Right. Who's not? This idea that this life is so trivial. Yeah. And it's just, oh, you just, just, just leave her here. Yeah. Can you imagine? It's all very rain. It was, you know what I, and this is, this is 2001 yeah so what what is so shocking to me is it seems like there was this prevailing thought that oh you're just going to leave her yeah yeah like they were wondering why you were even considering yeah yeah yeah it was just bizarre and i ask also yvonne that evening you're alone now with your daughter and you have yeah and you have all of these medical professionals telling you basically leave her yeah what's going on in your mind in that moment oh the way they were talking and about her heart and they were waiting for other things to happen and maybe stomach conditions.

15:25And I just thought I couldn't bond. I was nervous to get too attached because I just thought she was going to die. That was my... Die? Of what? Just what they were saying. There was so many issues and they just wrote her off. And I was just nervous of this little baby. Yes, yes. Well, it's me. You have a tiny little thing. You're like six pounds, I think. Six pounds, eh? Oh, cute. Yeah, you were. You were Ellie. Cute. I didn't bring myself to tell my mum, and when I did, my mum straight from the off was like, oh, you know, she's fine. There's nothing wrong with that child. And Mama had that attitude through the whole of Ellie's life.

16:15You know, she's fine. There's nothing wrong with her. how how important was that to you to have your mother react that way yeah I was just I was shocked but obviously happy that she didn't see anything wrong with Ellie nothing and went into Great Almond Street and they sat us down and then they started to tell us the real problems with her heart so i felt again people have lied to me or just it was just oh my god it wasn't just holes she had um a valve missing so i had to rebuild a valve and oh okay her heart was just in a complete mess basically so from birth to the op she'd only put on she was still like only seven pounds because of her way she was breathing like you couldn't maybe what get enough oxygen yeah yeah was that procedure at five months was that a that was a life threatening she had open heart surgery she had open heart surgery but so she was put on bypass so it was um 11 hour operation wow tiny little thing and i remember my husband and i we had to i said go away and come back in nine hours or whatever we just walked around the whole of London but we did not talk a word to each other.

17:41Oh, so peculiar. Oh my God. We must have walked miles and miles and miles. We were happy with her. She's stapled up in there. We didn't even know about until a couple of years ago when we went to an airport and she bibbed. And then I said on her next scan, you know, why does she always bib? And I went, oh, she's got staples. No one told me. That's amazing. Look, you have staples. Yeah. You're a multi-high feet, you're a model, actress, singer, dancer, and you have staples. And Strictly. And Strictly Staples. So when you think back to what was happening, to me it speaks to changes that need to be made.

18:23Because I would imagine this could be happening today. Yeah, I've still heard a few stories from hospitals. It's like people that have had children with Down syndrome and it hasn't been handled that well. I haven't heard lots, but whether it's changed or not, I don't know. You don't know. So this is something that I think we should spend a moment on because the prevalence of Down syndrome, I believe it's one out of every 800 births. You have a child being born with Down syndrome. We have six million people in the world with Down syndrome. So this is prevalent. we need to talk about it especially to new parents yeah what would you what would you have liked to have been told to you and said and how would you like to have been supported when you were giving birth to ellen um probably after the birth and they knew you know she had down syndrome just some people just to sit with you in your room or wherever you are and talk you through it not just say there's some leaflets and just leave you not knowing anything so just more education on the subject um yeah and when once we came home someone to come around and visit and how are you how's she doing talk us through things and plan well you know we never really planned for the future we always took initially a day at a time then we extended it to a week at a time months and now that's how we just dealt with it ourself is it were you dealing with it a day at a time because you didn't know how much time you'd have with yeah yeah initially initially especially after that huge operation and they said this will be the first of many because the heart you know we've had to do so much work to her as she grows things will change and you know she's going to have re-ops and da da da da da but luckily that never happened i mean she goes every year for checkups they encourage the exercise and dance and trade oh interesting some sudden dances that's important yeah yeah yeah i mean i was a little bit concerned with this level of dance but it was you know we discussed it and it was obviously fine she's done amazing she's strong very very very very strong also i think uh your level of resilience you know one thing that i'm definitely picking up on you is that uh you know resilience is our ability to, when we're confronted with something tough, to have belief that we can get back up if we're pushed down.

21:13And you have that belief. Many people do not have that belief at all. And when I was doing my research coming in, I was trying to learn as much as I could about Down syndrome. And one thing I've seen in terms of characteristics is many people with Down syndrome have very high levels of resilience. I would imagine part of it is because of what you were told when Ellie was little, and that is, oh, she's never really going to amount to anything. She won't be able to walk. When I change as a person and the fight came in me. Fights? Or, like, you know, fighting people. No, like, just I'll prove everyone wrong.

21:55Because eventually after her off and when things settled, we just said to each other, we're going to just bring Ellie up as Ellie as we did Amy we just need to get on with our life that's what we did didn't bring her up with Ellie's got a condition or Ellie's she got to I think secondary school and we still hadn't actually told Ellie and they said does she actually know what she's her condition I was like no we don't know what to do because no one along the way had ever bothered to talk to us about how to tell her or family. And Ellie was like a complete bookworm. The school said, you know, Ellie loves reading and books.

22:42Why don't you do it through a book? Which we did. So we got a book about children with Down syndrome. Oh, yeah. Showed Ellie, looked through it. I said, this is, you know, do you see yourself? And then we looked through the book, explained it all to Ellie. She got up, shut the book, got up, went straight to a mirror and said, I'm perfect. Don't do that. You still say it. And it was like, fine, let's move on. Yeah. That's how she dealt with it. Do you feel any responsibility or any importance? Are you just going, doing you? Be me. Yeah. I just wrapped up a tour. I've been touring around the UK.

23:29there's a question that I ask on this tour that I find to be so interesting so I'm going to end with this what is one thing that you appreciate about each other that you have never said so one thing you appreciate about your mother that you've never told her and you appreciate about Ellie that you have never told her who wants to go first you I just appreciate Ellie as a whole. As a whole. Ellie as a person, as a daughter. Yeah, carry on. Everything she does, everything she's achieved. Okay. For me, I never say to her about how, they're going to be awkward, but I've got my mum's impression in me.

24:28I hear it. Yeah, that's it. I hear it. Like, how life is always in a cell like, now, now. Now, now. I'll tell you what. A mom that, she picks up your dirty clothes, she brings you food, and she applies pressure, and she always says, now, that sounds like a great mom. Yeah, now. Yeah, yeah, high five. That sounds like a great mom. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the we need to talk page drop a like leave a comment and hit subscribe see you next week