Trewley Precious: The Real Cost of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives

25:11I'm going to say, yeah, and that's my daughter. That's my daughter right there. Now, those rules of you being within shouting distance, for example, did those same rules apply to your sisters? Yes, but it was a little bit different because I feel like my sisters were older. So me being the youngest with Honey, my other sister, she's the second from youngest, it was really amplified on us. OK. Like Honey was a young mum, she was a young mum at 19, like married at 19, out, you know, whatever. And my sisters were a little bit older, one of my older sisters isn't married yet, she likes tattoos and this and that.

25:48I could not walk in, I know to everyone it's like contradictory, but that is my life, like whether people like it or not. I could never walk in with a tattoo. OK. Are you joking? Just because Ruby has, that mean I can? What does that mean? We've all got different expectations, and we have to fit that. Ruby would set expectations, and she moved that box. She don't want to be in that box. She don't want to do that. Okay. You're 26, but quite honestly, you feel a lot more mature than 26 to me. And it wasn't until, you know, I was in my late 30s, early 40s, where I began to view my parents with more grace.

26:22Yeah. And to know that they did the best they could with what they had and what they knew. And they grew up in different circumstances where they were more so, I think, focused on survival. It's interesting. A lot of people don't realize this about me is, but I think this is the circumstances I grew up in, is I have a very hot fuse. Hot cold. Yeah. So that's me at 18. Up to that point, there you go. There you go. I would fight all the time. Yeah. All the time. Anything would set me off. Not because you wanted to, though. Right, but I would fight all the time. But then I got to a place where I said, you know, I can't fight.

27:02Right, because the consequence of that is going to be, you know, I lose this project, my boys are out of school, this happens to me. And so it's responsibility. And I'm sure that responsibility, you're starting to get a lot of that right now. Yeah, and it's hard because when my dad died, I said to him, like he was on the bed, and I said to him, like when we had to say bye, I just said, it's weird because when you walk into a room and you're saying bye to someone, I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay. It was really weird. And I said to him, go. I said, go and get your daughter.

27:48Go, just go, go and be free. It's all right up there. And I'll look after mum and the girls. And it's weird, but I felt it. Like, when I said it, I was like, no, it's all right, dad. I've got it. Like, go. It's all right. I'll take care of them. But I don't know why I had that, because I'm the youngest. But I think I just want to save my mum. I know that sounds a bit cliche, but if you knew how much she'd been surviving her whole life, you'd know what I'm saying. Yes. And I'm at a point where I've been surviving because my mum and dad couldn't break. I'm not blaming them, but they couldn't break that generational thing.

28:23And I have now. And this stops here. This isn't going further. I'm not being immune to things I shouldn't be immune to. I'm not surviving. I don't want to. Yes. You want to thrive. Yeah, I want to thrive, not survive. Yes. Yes. That was powerful. Thank you. That's powerful. So school, like, how did socially, what was life like for you? So, socially, I was actually right in school, in the sense of... Well, primary school is a bit different because my school was on the estate. So, with that, everyone had their own struggles. No-one cared that. I didn't even know that we were different until I got to secondary school.

29:00I didn't even know that me being a gypsy was different because I was on an estate where there's so much struggle. No-one gave a fuck what we were. No-one cared what we were. We didn't care what they were. They loved us, we loved them. That was it. So, when I went to a secondary school, that's 30 minutes from where I live and is quite a bit prestige from where I'm from. OK. Mate, I might as well have walked around with a target on my fucking back. But obviously, I'm not going to sit here and say I allowed people to bully me or whatever, but it doesn't mean I didn't have to always defend myself.

29:29Mate, I always had to be on guard. But everyone did... I say that, but people did like me in school. I won prom queen. Did you? Of course you did. Thank you, Paul. I was like, of course you did. Don't shout me, Paul. Yeah, I won prom queen. I won being the nicest student and that. So, you know, even though I did have challenges, and I will say this, Paul, when I was 13, I was sent to Alaska on a TV programme for being naughty in school. Really? Yeah. Wait, what is this? Yeah, it's called Extreme Schools. Extreme? OK, hold on, tell me about this. So it was on CBBC, I was 13, and what actually happened was a boy scurfed my cousin up for being what we are.

30:10So when I found this out, I approached him. little altercation happened is what it is. But when this happened, the boy grasped me up to the school. But when the altercation happened, there was no cameras. So when I went upstairs, I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And then they went, well, he said that he hit your cousin. And I went, you hit my cousin. I went, you hit my cousin. What? Yeah. And then they passed me a letter and was like, truly, we think you need to apply for this. And the men loved me. OK, so then you had to go to Alaska for a full year or no? No, no, for like 10 days.

30:43For 10 days. And we was there. But even that was intense because I didn't know I was different at this point. I weren't awake yet, if that makes sense. So I'd go there and they'd be telling me how I've had my makeup, how I've got my hair, how I'm standing, how I talk. I don't play like, get your elbows off, don't do this. So I had people. I was getting the blueprint coming out of it again. I've got people judging me again. Yes. I've always been attacked. And I'm not saying that in a thingy way, but we have been. We've always had it from each side. Yeah, from each side. I can see it. And so where, given all of this, right, I'm beginning to see at 13, 14, right, you're liked, but you're also loathed.

31:26Loathed. Loathed. Disliked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, I think people were intrigued by me because I think they like my personality in that. But then when they know things, oh, she's from that state. Oh, she's half chips. or like it's a bit like, well, you have them little things where they didn't just see me as truly. Okay, so then where is your safe space at 13?

31:55I don't think I really had one. Not blaming my parents. I just think it was a very hectic house, very chaotic.

32:10and I had to navigate through that and I think my parents would navigate children mentally in the sense of like they're navigating. You know how I said earlier, I see them as damaged teenagers. In my head, they're damaged teenagers who had loads of children trying to navigate it on their own, whose both families hate each other. You can only imagine, what safe space? Where am I going to go? My nan and grandad's. What, so they can call me a gorger? What, go to the other side and call me a dirty parking? I love you. My safe space was that state. Me going out playing football with all the other kids that were rejected.

32:42That was mine. That's where I could be funny. That's where I could be safe. That's where I could be a tramp. That's where I could be a gorger. That's where I could be a pikey. I could just be me. I didn't have to worry about anyone. And they loved me for who I am. I can see it. And that's why you... Because I see you repped your estate. Yeah. Yeah. Like you rep it. Yeah. Yeah. I think some people think, I had an interview the other day and the man sort of like hinted that I was showing it to get like clout or like laughs in the thing. Right. One, I've already got clout, doesn't make sense. Sorry, just saying.

33:19Can I say that? Don't make sense. Can I say that? That was nice. Thank you. I've got clout, don't make sense. I already got that. Period, thank you. Secondly, I love my estate. It wasn't these gypsies dropping food off when my dad died. It wasn't these gorges or these high-up influences. It was the people from my estate waiting for their benefits to hit so they could drop me milk round because they knew we couldn't leave our dad's side. Dropping cereal round. I even had... At the time, obviously, my dad was ill, so money weren't flowing how it was because the man of the house is dying. And I was doing gas and electric.

33:57I had a really good job. I had to quit it, work in a chip shop so I could be close to him. I'd always bring fish and chips home every night, whatever. And when my dad died, someone from my estate come round with an envelope full of 500 quid and went, I want to put this towards Uncle Sid's funeral. And we were like, no, no, no. He went, no, no, no, I want to. And that is why it's such a big thing for me to give back. Yeah, that's your heart. Your heart is in the estate. I can see it. I can see it. Hey there, I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life, and I want to continue to share it with you.

34:40So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second, and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast.

34:50So this is the part that I don't understand about your story. Yeah. So was it 14 when you started to create content, but you didn't post it? No, I was younger. You were younger? I was about 11. Okay. I always had the idea of loving videos, like to see YouTubers, but obviously back then YouTubers were only online if they were established. So when I was thinking about it, I weren't established, I weren't known, I was a kid, and I was like, I'm going to do that. And it's like, you know when you see something, you think, oh, that's what I'm going to do. It's literally like a, oh, yeah, me too. But what was it that you thought, that you saw that you wanted to do?

35:22Because, you know, people get online and they do different things, you know? Some people, the focus is makeup. Sometimes the focus is comedy. Or we've had so many of these notorious YouTubers who are, they play games. What was it that you wanted to do? I think my motivation of it, firstly, was survival. I feel like I've, when I say performing since a kid, I don't mean in that way. But when you're trying to survive all different routes, you learn how to be funny. You learn how to block noise out. you learn how to ignore comments or getting hit or this and that because you're so immune to it. So mine was coming out of my immunity, I think, without even realising.

36:02I think as a child I obviously thought, oh, we can do something else. But it was so frowned. Like my dad would never have it. I didn't even prove it until he went away, until he passed, sorry. Right. So that's why I'm so confused because I would imagine how strict the household was that you shooting a video saying anything and posting it would have been a complete no. Yeah, and it was. And it was for years and years. And then I hit about 17 and I just left college and I thought, I really want to do YouTube. No, sorry, I just left school. I thought, I really want to do YouTube. And then I started doing YouTube.

36:40It was that make-up content. But my lot didn't take it seriously, like a career. Like, it's just a bit of banter. Like, they think, oh, she's gross. She ain't going to say no, ain't mental on there. and then I switched over when I was like 20 to TikTok and it just blew, like I found my audience. Okay. So when you switched over, right, was it makeup that you started at doing? Yeah, I started to do makeup and that. I really wanted to be like an MUA girl and that. But then I actually realised I'm funny. Funny, hot, like, do you know what I mean? Everything. Do you know what I mean? Big list. I know exactly what you mean.

37:12Thank you. Yeah, there you go. No, but I mean, like, that's what I was saying about survival. Like, even when I was in school, I've always been a chubby girl. I've been chubby since I was about six. So you can only imagine being a fat, cancelling state pikey, half pikey, half not in the school. Jesus! I walked in and they'd say how, you know, and I was a little bit slower as well, mentally. And they'd tell me how fat I am, how stupid I am, all this, whatever, which is fine. But I had to learn how to perform and turn the pain into power from young, in the sense of, like, I remember being called fat and I was playing football and I went, nickname me Big Blonde.

37:44so I was really young even then being so young trying to flip my script of being bullied that's very even though oh it's very clever though why are you six trying to flip a script that's that's very interesting and that's what they'd say they'd go big blonde and then if someone called me fat they'd go duh she calls herself big blonde I'd just switch I'd just switch the whole thing so you switched it and you would say it first to beat them to it yeah I had to I knew what I was I'm not stupid like you know even now when people say things I think right I'm not offended. Oh, you're a fat tramp from here.

38:18Yeah. I know, you've got it on video. Do you know what I mean? I've always been able to take it. That's why this hate is kind of boring. I find this so interesting, truly. Good, I'm glad you do. Oh, yeah. So much, so much. You're going to need a bigger pad, aren't you? I'm going to need another iPad, basically. So then when I hear you qualify right now, you talk about, say, your show. You talk about you and your sisters. You say you're just like the Kardashians, but what? Fat broken on benefits. Okay. So when you say something like that, are you saying it to beat the thought of other people? Are you saying it as a preemptive, like, defense mechanism?

39:02I've never explored it that way until you just said it. Because of how you talked about how you would flip the script when you were 11, 13. so it sounds like you've been flipping the script for the last 10 years my whole life your whole life yeah i've always had to flip it i always have do you know i mean like even just from that i could play football with everyone after that i could regulate myself it wasn't about them it was about me i could handle what they were saying because i put it out like you said you're 20 when you get on tiktok yeah around 20 yeah okay and you said you found your audience yeah Because your audience could begin to see you for more than just makeup.

39:41Yeah. What did they see? Just my life. How chaotic, how funny it is. And little things that I do. You see me walking better fits the shop. You'd be surprised how many people go, I'm sorry for that. But that's who I am. I've never worn shoes. I don't even want to wear shoes now. Can I take this off? You can take this. I'm so sick of acting posh around you, Paul. Get them off me. Get those shoes off. You can wear them. Who needs shoes? Who needs shoes? So, yeah, that was almost like TikTok. Like, you literally took your shoes off, like, figuratively and literally. It's like you were just you. Yeah, and it was the first time someone went, wow, without, oh, you're this, you're that.

40:19It was kind of like, oh, I love who you are. And I was like, thanks, me too. What did you begin to show at 20 that you still, that you felt uneasy about? because you thought your mother or father or family may become aware of? It wasn't about them being aware of stuff because I'm quite open. Like I'm quite, you know, it wasn't like they were going to find saying out about me. It was more of the sense I didn't want to disrespect them and their rules. I didn't want to, you know, gypsies are very private anyway. I think that's why there's been like a big uproar on this and that. But we're still private.

40:56No one knows nothing about us. They think they do because what we let them know. Right. Same as you. No one knows nothing about you. You let them know what you want them to know. Yes. You're a performer. You know what you're saying. You just hit a major milestone on your socials. I hit a milli. Just a cool milli. So this is a million... People. A million people follow you. Just on TikTok. Just on TikTok. You have a million people following you. What do you think that says about you and what you're doing? I'm just grateful I didn't change from who I am. Like, you get a lot of people, why are you barefoot?

41:32Why are you this? Why are you that? And I've never explained it. I'm me. And then people that follow me see a bit of themselves in me. And I love that. I love that I can radiate to people if they're from bad backgrounds, abusive homes, relationship, whatever, you name it. And they can look at me and go, oh, she can make it out. And that's what's been lovely. Even, like, I was in that by the other day, Paul, yeah? I know you chucked my nails out, didn't you? I did. I did. I like them. Thank you. I like them a lot, yeah. and this girl walked past, and I know her from the estate. She went, you all right, babe?

42:02I went, you all right? I'm not joking. She went, here, got you this. Pulled out an envelope. Filthy, absolutely filthy. I was laughing so much. I thought, how long you had that envelope in there? She went, I've got this for you. I opened it up, and it's a congratulations card, yeah, from my show, which was lovely. In there was such nice writing, and she goes to me, and she gives me the card, thank you so much, because my daughter watched it, and her daughter's a little black girl as well, which meant more to me, because she's not even from my community or my culture. And she went, thank you so much for doing that, because she keeps saying to me, I'm going to do this when I get off the estate.

42:34I'm going to do this. I can do that just for I'm from here. And just hearing that made everything just feel like, oh, that was right. Oh, all right, cool. Because to hear the mum say, thank you, she's got other options now, it's all I ever wanted as a kid. All I ever wanted was other options. and listen, I know travelling women have different options they like to say that I said that they don't work of course they work, my nan worked in the field yeah, it was the like picking all the beds and the fruit and that and my dad would have to go with her because obviously she was a single mum, my dad and uncle would go with her and that's another thing as well my dad always had it hard even when he was a little boy my dad was blind in his eye oh wow, he was?

43:18yeah, but he had a scar like that and I never understood what the scar was I wasn't allowed to ask, I asked him I was got older and he told me that he was working on the field with his mum and he put the knife in the tree. He was all, like, playing, like, on their break, whatever, as little kids. Like, the tree shook or sank, the knife fell, he looked up, he went straight in his eye. So even from a young boy, and he'd never say about it, it wasn't a big thing. He was like, get over it, you're blind in your eye, get over it, you've been stabbed in your eye as an eight-year-old child, get over it.

43:49So that was my whole life of, get over it. Come on, get over it. Yeah. Even like, you know, my dad, my mum finds it hard to speak about it and this. Not that she wants us to get over it, but it's like, we've got to be strong. We can't be weak. We've got to be his kin, his wife, his children. We've got to be him. When I just sometimes I want to cry and be me. Yes. Yes. Then was it 20 when is it tempting fortune? I was 22. You were 22. Yeah. All right. So now would you say that that was the first big break for you? Yeah. It was a very weird time, I will say that, of my life because I just left the only boy I've been with.

44:37I just left him. Oh, wow. Okay. So can we talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So then when you are 20 on TikTok, at this point, you're not living at home. Yeah, I am. You are? I am, but I've got a boyfriend, yeah. Like, they see it as I'm married, so they see it. And I think this confuses a lot of people, but in our community, if you give yourself to a man without church, they just see it as marriage. A lot of my cousins, if they come in the room now, they'd go, oh, that's my husband, da-da-da. Some of them aren't married in the church, but I would never be rude and disrespectful to not call them...

45:13If your wife come in and out and you say, that's my wife, you're not for a church, that doesn't mean nothing to me. You've gave yourself to her, she's gave yourself to you. That's how I see it. Okay. So I was 18, and then I left him when I was 22. But even that was very hard. Was this someone who your family introduced you to? Because up until this point, it seems as if you're not allowed to talk to boys. You're not allowed to. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't like that. If I did, I played football with them. It wasn't on that level of we can speak sexually or emotionally. It wasn't that vibe at all.

45:46No, I was about 18 And I just see him And I asked him what his name was And that was it But he kept At this point, I've never been in a relationship I've never had a man touch me I've never been on a date Very like adult, but child in the brain I would say And He wasn't this aggressive travelling man He wasn't this aggressive state kid I thought, oh my god That's what I want and it wasn't what I wanted. Did your parents approve of him? At first, I feel like some people, it doesn't matter what culture you come from, I think some people perform, but I don't think they perform as their self. I think they perform as an identity that they want to be perceived as and I think that's what happened.

46:37And then I feel like he studied me, studied my loyalty, studied how I think and that was a very dangerous game for me okay okay did you then um did you then move in with him no I wasn't allowed because I wasn't married for church okay but I didn't have a baby if I had a baby they'd go yeah you you go I didn't have I didn't I didn't and I'm the youngest I won't make doing that it's gonna kick our youngest out right did you consider that to be a healthy relationship yeah okay yeah it's all i've seen okay it's all i had done why would i think it was different to someone else did it to me oh but it what you're saying it upon hindsight it wasn't what was it your uh your relationship with the boy what was it what was it healthy oh no no it wasn't healthy it was not no but i didn't know different i didn't know any different okay and he led me in the sense of like think i've i've never had sex i've never i've never done anything like that he was the man entirely like and i just had to i i see it it was clever it wasn't in a way of like oh i'm this authoritative man i think that's what was worse like you know if my dad said it i'd expect it because he's true to who he is where on the outside this boy's a wimp and a pussy out and then when it's on our own you're not a wimp or a pussy out i'm confused okay all right I see it.

48:02I see it. So then when you were in that relationship with him, did you think that was it for you, that you'd be in with him forever? Oh, forever. I would never, I wouldn't have gave myself, it took me a year and a half to give myself to him. I would never have gave myself to him. But I can't, I was a young girl. What do you want me to do? Like, I loved him. I was with him for four years. What was I supposed to do? Okay. And I've, listen, I've always been taught how to fight back. I've never been taught how to leave. So how in the world, given how you were raised, were you able to leave that marriage?

48:39I felt like I was dying. I felt like I was dying in it. I felt like I was dying without it. But that part of me died then. That's obviously what that was. When I felt like I was dying, I was grieving something clearly that I was leaving. I had to get out of there. And I'm glad I did, because I never thought I would. Did you talk to anyone about leaving him? No.

49:07This is, and you're in your 20s at this point. Yeah, 22. And still, all of this weight you carry yourself, you don't talk to anyone about it? I don't really know how. What were you feeling in that relationship that made you know it was time to leave? Not to sound deep or make things whatever, but just saying it straight. I feel like when you're in something toxic, especially if you're immune to what's going on, and your brain is starting not to feel right, even though this is your normal surrounding, I felt like I was fighting against myself as well. It was really like, I felt like, you know, I couldn't accomplish, my mum and dad's been married over 40 years, I couldn't even do four.

49:58That's what I was thinking. But then I also, now I'm awake, I think, well he knew that I would stay through anything, so he put me through everything. And that's okay, because it would never happen again. I'm not that girl, like, so even when you're saying to me, oh can't you speak on it? I can't, I'm not that woman anymore and it is hard for me to speak on it because I feel childlike and even though yes I was a big grown woman, 22 year old I didn't have the same experience as 22 year olds have 22 year olds my age, sorry at that age have slept with people, done one night stands not that I want that but I'm saying they've had so much experience with the outside world that is probably a little bit dangerous to mine but it was easier for them than it would have been for me Yeah, okay.

50:45I see it. I see it. I won't ask any more detail, but I just have to generally understand is in that relationship, were you in fear? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home. And to me, I was at home. Okay, I see, I see. So it was, I would have presumed it was toxic, it was unhealthy, as you mentioned, but it felt normal to you because that's what you knew outside of it. I feel like if you've been treated a certain way your whole life, when someone comes and says they love you and treats you the same way, why wouldn't he love me?

51:29Right. How old were you when you got out of that marriage? 22. You were 22. So is that right before Tempting Fortune? Oh, Tempting Fortune, I look back now and I think was such a healing thing for me just because I just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's terminal. And then two weeks later, I got a message from Tempting Fortune. They approached me saying that they want me on the show. Can I ask, though, because I could see that this time, is that you just want to escape. Yeah. You just want to get out. but your dad has just been given, was it six months? Yeah. To live. So you're told your father has six months to live but then you're offered a show that is going to take you away for a full month, isn't it?

52:17No phone. No, nothing. How were you able to make that decision? I asked them. I asked them and this was my, and I completely understand from someone else, I think, well, I wouldn't believe in my father. I completely get it. I was at his side for two years. This was the one chance. He's been dying for two years. OK, I see it. It's just now, it's six months. OK. This is my one opportunity. I've been through things. No adult, no woman, no man should go through in these four years, repeatedly. And now I'm out and I'm like, someone grabbed me, I need saving. That's it, and that's how I felt. I was obviously just very vulnerable.

52:56And I asked my dad, and my dad hated all that TikTok shit. Oh, I hated all that. I absolutely hated it. I couldn't want one in one, giving it, all of that. And then this was the one time to me, I can prove it to my dad what I am. That's how I see it. It wasn't that I was leaving my dad. It was like, dad, I'm proving this. Dad, look, look, I'm you. I'm doing this, like validate me, love me, love before you go, do this before you go. And I remember doing the show and I loved it. I had no phone, I had no worry. Just for that one minute, I weren't a nurse. I weren't breaking up with someone. I weren't a half Gordia, a half Bight, I was just truly in a jungle show, having fun.

53:34That's what I was doing. And then I come back and I run my mum and I said, after a month of us not speaking, she was crying and I said, I'm really scared to ring Dad because I think he's dead. I don't want to ring him. She said, he's alive, he's waiting for you to call him, he's downstairs. And I was really happy and I rung him. I said, I did it, I won 20 grand. He went, oh, come on, my big yell. Oh, take off my other's life. Just shouting, hooting on, he's dying. He's jumping up in his chair, like, you know what you think? Fuck, you know. And I was so happy that was the first time I could prove it.

54:15And I proved it. I did it. I've worked all these years doing TikTok videos. Even then I was popping. I had, like, 300 ,000 K. It still wasn't enough for him. Yeah, I see it. But now I see it. Yeah. I see it. You went out there. to be like, look at me. Look at me. Dad, I'm repping you. I'm out here. And you won. Yeah. You won the show. You won 20 grand. You tell him, did you feel as if he was proud of you? Yeah, I felt more, well, it's hard, isn't it, because they hold their pride. Like, obviously, he was like, yeah, like cheering. But when he passed the day before his funeral, obviously, like I said, he comes from the gypsy community.

54:53a few of your gypsy friends come round, like, who we'd call our uncles, yeah? That's a respect thing, yeah? So, my dad's... Like, my uncles have come round, whatever. And one of them went, what one of you's did that show? It weren't out yet. Ain't been aired yet. He died before it aired. And I didn't get the money yet either. That's why it was hard, because I had to bury my dad with no money. I didn't have no money, like that. But whatever. And they come in and he said, what one of you's did the show? And I went, oh, me. He went, oh, he couldn't stop talking about that. He went, he was so gassed.

55:22He went to a toilet with us. And just for that minute, I thought, you don't even know what you've just done for me. Like, you just gave me that thing of, like, oh, yeah, he loved what you're doing. Keep going before he went. Bearing in mind, it's like the captain of the ship telling you to steer a ship this whole time. And you're going, I can steer, I can steer. And then he's gone. Just before he's gone, he goes, oh, she's a perfect captain. That's what it felt like. Wow. Well said. Yeah, that is literally how I felt. I could feel that. I could feel that. Yeah, it was cool. Did, and I can understand how stoic your father was Did he ever tell you that he loved you?

55:58Um, yeah, but like in different ways Like I said, there was a very He already had certain issues mentally and stuff So like, even if you hugged him, he'd go Alright big girl, tap on your back Alright big girl, that's enough, come on now Oh, get over here big girl, you know I love you Go on, it'd be like a Oh, I'm a 13 year old saying I love you to my mum It was that vibe. But I know he loved us the best he could. Yes. Like, he's lost a child. Died in his arms. What more, looking back, what more could I expect from what he gave me? What other life? He's been betrayed. He's been heartbroken. That's something you can't turn back from.

56:37And I look back because I think I'm so selfish wanting something from a man he can't give me. But he gave me everything else, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah. And I love him, but I don't want people thinking, I'm going to give my dad off, I wouldn't. I love him. No matter what he is, like, traits and all, whatever, I love him. And I don't feel like I could... I feel like, being honest, with filming, filming's made me grieve. Filming's amazing. The people, the crew, the production company, amazing, but they were asking me questions I've never been asked. We've been raised, like, we don't talk about emotions.

57:11I don't know how to regulate. That's what makes it harder as well. I don't know how to regulate, I don't know how to communicate, so I had to learn that. so to have a crew come in and be like how did you feel when your dad died or how did you feel when this happened i go my whole it's like a fight or flight i like freeze i don't know what to i don't know how to regulate that i don't know how to speak on that without like sound like i'm cussing someone out right you just were filming it last year right yeah last month or last month yeah so before you even get the show your father passes you're probably trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is yeah but from what i understand too is doing the research is there was also a freeing that happened to you around this time yeah and it sounds weird because i miss him every day i'd love for him to be here but when you have someone control like even what i would eat or what i would do like even down to eating would be under his control and to not have that was like like do you know what I mean if I want to go get a bag of Chris I'll get back Chris I want to go just like so small yes there was a part of me that was free there's also a part of me lost I don't know what I'm doing like my mum describes it perfectly in the show she says I feel like I'm a bird and I've been in a cage a long time and someone's opened the cage door I'm too scared to walk out what yeah I'm curious what are things that you could do 2.

58:33Once your father passed that you could not do when he was alive. Not leave the living room when men walk in. Not... Like, even, like, our toilets. We've got a boy toilet and a girl toilet. Men aren't allowed upstairs in our house. There's always been a rule. No men upstairs. Like, whether you want to use a toilet, whether you... Nothing. Even when we'd film up there, I'd have to ask for permission. Of my mum. And I'd have to tell her what I'm doing in the scene, who's in... Who are the camera... Like, obviously, she knows them, but I'd say, yes, the man... Harry is the cameraman today, and Martina is the other woman.

59:04She's in there. She's a woman. She's doing it. Because you remember my mum, a lot of people have to say like, my mum's been with my dad 40 years. Obviously, she's going to have the same sort of program. And she met him young. She met him as a child. What do you think is going to happen? Right, right. So. I see it. I see it. Have you ever noticed how many of your friends are sitting on great business ideas? It's usually nothing to do with thinking their idea isn't good enough and everything to do with the execution side feeling a bit too technical. But with our show sponsor, Shopify, so much of the technical side is taken care of for you.

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1:00:28Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema, so I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglis? Ebglis Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EBCLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.

1:01:02Don't use if you are allergic to EBCLIS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.com. Or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name.

1:01:37Sam's Club. Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club. How does this show come about? Right? Because from a career standpoint, you are you've just won a Channel 4 show. Tempting 14. Tell him, Po. This is good. You know it. You won. Your TikTok is... How big are you on TikTok at this point? At what point, sorry? Before you get the show. Oh, before this show? Yes. Like 900 ,000? Really? It's all right. Yeah, about 100 ,000. Yeah, just a few people. Just a few people. I've got a bit of a community behind me. A little community going. Are you starting to make... You must be making income from this, or no?

1:02:22Well, I'll be honest with you. This is why I'm lucky to have the manager I do have. she is not just the manager she's very like much friend family to me now because without her I weren't earning money and to be honest during this series when you first do a season or when you do a first show you don't get paid loads because they have to trust you and I'm glad they have because I knew what it was going to be and that's what I love about even more Paul just to clear everything up so many people and like and have been going oh my god secret lies of gypsy wives why didn't they use full-breded gypsies why didn't they use this I tell you why they didn't because it weren't their idea.

1:02:56It was mine. All right, Paul? Okay. All right? That's why. So there's a lot of girls doing videos that are like, I got picked for the show, I turned it down. Well, you didn't get picked for the show, darling, because I pitched it and I picked me and my sisters. It was about me being from a poor council estate. My dad is a gypsy. My mum is a gorgeous. I live life on social media. My family have different mixtures of traditions from both cultures and it's a clash. Let's record it. You're going to love it. And they did. They did. So there was no other gypsies involved. I didn't name the title that.

1:03:26Channel 4 changed the name. I don't know why I have to state it because EastEnders people who work on there don't have to say that they didn't name EastEnders. Right. Right. So I don't know why I have to state I didn't do that, but I didn't. But this is brilliant, though. You pitched the show. I pitched it myself. So let's talk about some of the impact that the show has made. Yes. Three million. Three million. People have what? Watched it. Watched it. But the second episode's out tonight. All right. So just so far, right? Three million. right it's doing quite well on channel i'm not counting but yeah but of course of course you have to count you have to count numbers are important so you have to count so what to you has been the biggest surprise on the upside with regard to the show how much love i have got from people that are half because i know that it's really i know that some people are ashamed or like feel like they can't be both you're only in this one box and that's it that you've been put into um and that's what i love i love that they've come out and they're like i've been ashamed about my life but i ain't got to be ashamed they're saying it so i'm right i'm off there you go i'm gypsy from my mum's side now what and i think yeah that is what you should be saying what you are that you're all of them things i ain't just got to be one thing in a box i'm this i'm that i'm like an onion there's so many layers there's too many layers to me okay do you know what i mean so you feel like i smell that one though no no no you don't no You smell great.

1:04:49Thank you. So you feel like you're inspiring a whole group of people who see... They see you in them. Or, I'm sorry, they see themselves in you. Yeah, yeah. They see themselves in you. Yeah, and I want that. Like, when a kid, from, like, little things we spoke about, do you think I ever looked on the telly and I saw a woman that looked like me? Or do you think I looked on the telly and saw, like, someone that's from a deprived area that ain't getting taken the piss out of? or no, I didn't have that. I didn't have none of that. And that's what I thought. There's probably a lot of girls like that.

1:05:23Like even like yourself, you're from a different culture. There's probably people you know that probably wouldn't accept people that are mixed. They probably wouldn't. I think that comes with any culture, like in general. Yes. But you were probably very inspirational for people from the black community who come from the projects, who come from that and think they're not going to be like, you represent that. And that's what I want to represent. I want to represent them girls that didn't have a choice. I want to represent them girls that had been in survival their whole life, that they think this is it.

1:05:52And it's not. It's OK. And it's all right that you've still got them survival instincts. It's all right, you're learning. It's OK. You ain't got to be horrible to yourself. That's what I have to say to myself. You're in your 20s. Stop being horrible to yourself. You're a young girl. Figuring life out without a dad. You're figuring it out. Be nice. And that's what I want for them. It's all right. Even if you ain't got to figure it out. There's girls in their 30s that ain't got to figure it out. We're winging it. It's life. No one's got a rule book to this. No. I didn't know there was a life rule book or a gypsy rule book.

1:06:18Do you know what I mean? If you've got one, send me the book poll. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. Yes. No, I love this. I love this. So now on the show, there are many, I don't want to say characters because they're real life, but they're characters. There's many people, right? Many, wouldn't they? Because, I mean, some of them. So you have yourself and it's really centered around you. Is it? Do you know? I'm sure you had no idea that it said it around you. Cut the camera. Right. And then you have your family. Yeah. Right, clearly. Yeah. And then you have a best friend. James. James. Yeah.

1:06:56All right. So when did you connect with James? When I was 20. Okay. I was 20. I was doing like, I was trying to do TV work, but I was a little extra on sync. But that was a big deal for me because obviously, even when I'm out of state, you're not an extra. You could never see yourself on screen, let alone being an extra. So I was there and this boy come over to me. I was in a relationship at the time and he come over and he was like, he was getting pictures of everyone. It wasn't a deep thing. He was just showing that he's an extra too. You've got a picture. Me with my banter, I joked and was like, don't tell everyone I'm your girlfriend.

1:07:27I've got one. Like, I mean, I played, yeah. And James went, I'd never even spoke to James. He come out of nowhere and he went, Ian it, he wishes that you were his girlfriend. I went, Ian it. We've been friends ever since. Just like that. Like that. It was like he was horrible and I loved it. I was like, in it So he must be super proud that you're doing this show Yeah, because you see when me and James met Like I said, we were extras And we made a pact to each other Whoever makes it first, the other one comes with We made that And he says it to me every day He goes, thank you, I love you And all this stuff But that's my loyalty, that's who I am If you're with me at the bottom, why would you not be with me at the top?

1:08:05Yes, yes, I can see it Loyal is definitely a value Or loyalty, should I say it's a value I ain't got money. I ain't got this. I ain't got that. I've got loyalty. I have a surprise for you. Ready for this? No, don't, because I love surprises. I love stuff and things. No, this I think you will love. Okay. This is really good. Okay, shall I close my eyes? Shall I make it in time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, ready? All right, close your eyes. You have to trust me. Hold out your hand. All right, yeah, like that. Okay, ready? I want you to... That's a surprise. What do you think that is? It's an envelope, innit?

1:08:36Yes, yes. Has it got cams in it? It ain't flicking off, I think. All right, so open your eyes. Okay, thank you. And I would love for you to read that. Read it out loud? Yes. To my best friend, soulmate, and forever person, truly precious, I want you to know how incredible I think you are from the moment I met you six years ago. I knew of our instant connection we could be soulmates. Your courage to stand for what you believe, your boldness and bravery in life is something that I think is so admirable. Seeing a version of you that only family get to see is breathtaking but besides your work your followers and your social is a girl who's fighting who's fighting hard and proving sorry and showing up to provide for all of her loved ones making moves and setting the tone tp style your loyalty to your family is something that i honestly think is extraordinary you wake up every morning no matter what the world throws at you you make sure you're always loyal to your own you're the woman who holds the glue for all of us you're loyal, loving, brave and most importantly, Miss TP.

1:09:41Brackets, iconic. I can hear him saying it. Sorry, that's why it's funny. From meeting you to becoming best friends to watching you on this journey has been the most breathtaking, magical thing I've ever experienced. This is something that isn't luck or is the universe. This is you. You've changed the lives of so many people by simply being your unapologetic self. You've worked so... Fucking hell, he's wrote a lot. I'm dyslexic as fuck. This is so much, right? You've worked so hard to get where you are, and I hope you are just as proud of yourself as we are. You really are something truly precious.

1:10:11I wanted to take a moment to mention... ..your daddy as... ..he would be proud and is proud of the woman you have become. You have support his home and his family. I know he thanks you every day for looking after his wife and his kids... ..and his grandkids. you have you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life sorry no problem um um sorry i can't see um looking after his wife and his grandkids you may have been you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life but i know he's up there telling everyone how amazing his miracle is he's thanking you every day for taking on a responsibility when it's never been expected or asked of you I'm honestly so excited to see what you bring next for truly precious this is your journey your story is only the only the beginning whatever happens next in your life and career I'll always be by your side holding your hand hyping you up every step of the way I'm never letting you forget how proud we are you really do love up to your name truly precious I love you so much my darling I can't express how proud I am of you six years ago yesterday today and forever to go you've earned milestone you've here and it's going up from here all my love james wow now that paul was a surprise wow what a lovely message can i keep this please you absolutely i'll hold on to it and then i'll give it to you thank you at the end i thought that was beautiful that was very lovely yeah how dare you make this podcast about him are you joking cut it i tell you we can really make it about him because That's you and James.

1:11:55Yes, I love him. He's great. He's amazing. When I met him when I was younger, yes, we had that instant connection, but he wouldn't mind me saying this, he says it on the show, James don't have family like that. So when I met James, I guess we were both kind of lost. I was in a relationship that I couldn't scream out that I want to get out. I was still under my mum and dad's rules. And James was just this boy that was young, naive, no family, sign Essex. He doesn't even know what gypsies were, which is quite funny. He does now. I'll tell you now he does. Yes, yes. But, like, he's been amazing. And, like, what I love about James, you know that in life, you know, you meet people and you can go to someone, oh, I don't like that.

1:12:38Like, you might have to teach them a certain thing or a boundary. We are so close. If he run me and said, oh, yeah, don't say that, you go be da-da-da, I'd go, oh, sorry. Like, it's just so... There's just so much love there that anything, if he's to take negative, all that love would override it. It would never be intentional. True best friend. Thank you very much. So this is your best friend? Yeah. Yeah, James is amazing. Yeah. He's great. I can see it. I can see it. So now James is on the show with you. Yes. You have your family, right? Can you walk us through some of the behind the scenes?

1:13:10Because so many people would love to know what happens behind the scenes. What do you think people would be most surprised about to know just about the filming of a TV show? Well, I think people are surprised that ours is real. I've seen a lot of comments. It's like, oh, some of this is staged. Some of this is this. And I think, oh, my God, my show must be popping. For you to think I'm staging, wouldn't I have something more staged? Like, babe, I'm walking barefoot with no bra onto the shop. Wouldn't something else be happening? Do you know what I mean? Right. But I love that. I love that. I love the crew.

1:13:45They were so lovely, so nice. And, you know, I had to not, like, warn them, but I had to say, listen, there is a culture clash in here. There's certain things you can say, certain things you can't. You know, just take it with a pinch of salt. They were so just understanding. Like, everyone said that was ignorant, but you think, no, no, no. And they're like, it's all right. Like, it's OK. You've told us. We know. You know, like, that understanding without having to overly explain my whole life and defend myself again? Yes. I didn't have that. Yes. And I loved it. I could just work with them and they knew who we were, they knew what we are.

1:14:16They loved us, they were our friends. One of my producers is pregnant, I've bought a baby stuff. They've bought me handbags for doing the show. They genuinely love me and I love them, they're so kind. I've never been around gypsies, mainly with themselves. They don't have, I don't know if you know that, but where there's obviously so many of you, you mainly just get raised together. So I was very lucky to have my sisters and my brothers as my best mates, but to come out of anything of that was a bit foreign to me even having James James is the only James and Robin's the only friends that we're all friends with and we're all friends with them they're family friends they're not just my friend do you know what I mean yes and to have that with the crew was so nice they're so lovely like genuinely and like you've been in this industry how hard is it to like you say your vision and you've got to trust them with what they're saying because they can manipulate this they could change this whole thing for me and I've just signed up to something that they're not actually agreeing with me.

1:15:13And they didn't. They portrayed it even better. They made us look good. Really? Everyone thinks we were shit. Jesus, we should see what we actually look like. So this right here is what I think people most often say when they're on a TV show, is that the end result is not what they felt was happening in real time. Oh, no, this was exactly that. But for you, you're like, no, this is exactly what was happening. That's great. I think they even made us look better than what we were. Like, we've argued, obviously, listen, the crew with us for almost a year, like, we filmed a pilot last March. So on and off, I've been doing this for about a year and a half.

1:15:47But actually, like, consistently, it was from September last year. So for about 10 months straight, they're at our house. Wow. What could we fake? You're there 10 days, sorry, 10 months straight. What could we fake? There's only so much I could put a persona on. Sure. You're with me 24-7. Like, from when I wake up to when I'm going to bed. Like, I need to go. I mean, that's heavy, though. 10 plus months um how did your sisters and and your and your brother it's one brother right i actually have three brothers three brothers but one wanted to be in the being they're quite they're quite um private traveling men like gypsy men all right so this is exactly where i was going is that how did they feel about the filming the show and having to you know allow cameras into their home i'm not gonna lie paul we're friends so i'm gonna be honest with you they didn't have a fucking clue until I said, listen, I'm filming Sank, I just need yous to be in the back.

1:16:40Because listen, if I said to them, we've got a TV show and we're doing this, they're going to freak out. This ain't their world, yeah? They're going to freak out like animals. Where, if I sit and go, I'm filming Sank, yous are just there, they'll go, oh. And then they'll just talk shit and they naturally will talk to me. Naturally, it's natural. We're naturally mental. So it just, might as well film it. Do you know what I mean? So you set them up? You set your family up? Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. That's what you do to families. You set them up. Yeah, but in a good way, Paul. Don't look like I set them up to get jumped.

1:17:09Right. No, no. I got them a career, Paul. I mean, they all have... I mean, I would think that... They must be proud. Yeah, but, like, it's hard for them as well, because they've got the same upbringing as me. So when they're seeing people giving it, they think, lovely, let's get into this. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Whereas, like, girls, no, we are getting a new life now. We don't need to do this. We don't need this. We've got better things coming. I see it as we're getting tested by the universe. like we really deserve these things which we do so i need to be mute i need to keep it cute being mute it's hard though it's hard it's hard can i ask too is what about the the estate because you know you're filming on the estate yeah right how did the community feel about you filming they were fine because i think because they know how much i big them up on tiktok and how much i actually love them like that isn't a facade if there's a camera there or not if i make if i had sorry Sorry, if I had dinner made and there's leftovers, of course I'm knocking on my neighbour's door if they want to go on.

1:18:08They ain't eating. Do you want something to eat? Like, my neighbour Debbie, she makes cheesecakes for us randomly when she bakes. That ain't fake. Right. We're a community. If one of us is eating, we're eating. Do you know what I mean? That's why when I got paid, when I got paid for the brown deal, that's when I, on the second episode, I give out, I feed all the estate kids on Halloween. I did it on Halloween because I've been the estate kid myself on Halloween. I know what happens on Halloween. You probably know what happens on Halloween. And I thought, I need people to be safe. I need them to be okay.

1:18:37I need them not to feel pressured if they've got to go and do Sank on Halloween with other groups of kids. Right. And I gave them a safe place. I did a TikTok. I didn't put my dress out. It was literally from my estate people who know where I live. I said, I've got 200 hot dogs. I've got marshmallows. And I've got hot chocolate. If you need somewhere to go, or you're hungry, or you don't want to be on your own, whatever the situation is, come to the garden. Paul, there was over 200 hot dogs I gave up. See, that's how you do it. And that's how you do it. You know what's so wild is I didn't even realize there was that connection from the States to the UK on Halloween.

1:19:07So tell me, because I'll be honest with what happened. Yeah, yeah. So I remember Halloween. What Halloween used to be was people in my neighborhood would go steal candy from other people. They would stick people up during Halloween and bring it back. Is that what is different? Like, egging, bricking, toilet paper in the houses, maybe plotting on a house, like, scaring people. Right. Or, like, choring tank or whatever. Just the state style. Like, you know, or they'd be out on them bikes, ballied up, scaring you, or setting the fireworks off on a bike. Right. But to me, that's nostalgic. I know that's really stupid, but that was my childhood.

1:19:44But I also had to think as an adult. So that's also as hard, because there's two parts of me. Like I said, my blueprint is like, that's so fun. I want to go on a motorbike and set fireworks off. That's jokes. But then there's an adult part of me that's like what happens if someone gets hurt and then what happens if someone gets nicked? Then what happens if this turns into 12 or 3 and now they're petrol women in each other's houses? Then what? Can we talk about your siblings just for a second? Yeah, right because they are more than the supporting cast like they are Major players. They're literally the show.

1:20:14Yeah. Yeah. So if you were to give me a sentence about each sibling What would that sentence be? Okay what is in describing him? Yeah, from your perspective, who are they? So, Jamie John's my older brother. Yes. He's like the golden boy could do anything wrong. I love him, by the way. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. No, and he is actually a really good brother. And that's another thing that I found really sweet. Sorry to change it. But my brothers have always been these strict gypsy men. I couldn't really be, not like feminine, but I couldn't in that way around them. Like, if I was sad, it'd be like, what are you crying for?

1:20:53You're pansy, you stop crying. You sort of get, like, snapped out of it like a boy. We were emotionally treated like boys, I think. But when my dad passed, I guess there wasn't this high standard of, like, matching my dad, like, matching the alpha. OK. So he, like, calmed down a bit. I don't know how to describe it, but it was so nice. Like, it's just so nice to... You know, if I cried, he'd hug me now. If I, you know, if I said something, oh, big girl, don't worry about that, he'd be in touch with my emotion instead of rejecting it. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, and it's so nice to have. I love that about him.

1:21:26Very good father, very good at working, very humble man, lovely. Ruby would sell anything for some magic beans. She ain't got a clue what day is. Love her. She don't know what day is. No, she's a very good sister. She's very like a second mum, but who's lost with magic beans. Okay, okay. That's her. Pearlie is like the stuck up funny mum, I guess. Bitch. Tell us how you really feel. Yeah, yeah. No, and then honey is... Honey's like funny in a dry way. Like they're very... Do you know what? It's really hard just to give them all sentences because we're all very similar but we're all so different.

1:22:06They're so funny, they're so dry. We've all got different paths. Two of my sisters on the cast, yeah, not the other ones that aren't, two of the sisters on the show are married with children and me and my sister Ruby, our name. She's the oldest one and I'm the youngest. So that's really like... But Ruby was also two months early, which is so weird. That's interesting. Yeah, that we're both prime. That is interesting. Yeah. All right, so now you live in a... Is it a pink chalet? Oh, I've got a chalet, yeah. Chalet. But it's a bit different, my chalet. I will say that because my chalet, normal chalets, just to let you know, Paul, are like little houses, right?

1:22:46And inside them you have a bedroom, a little kitchen, and a little living room, like all in one. But my dad was so strict that when he got this built, and now looking back, I'm not stupid, it was obviously because he knew he was going to die and my mum would be on her own in the house, yeah? He said, I don't want yous having a living room or toilets or kitchen because it means you won't come into the house. Wow. So you will, you'll have a shape of one, you'll have your bedroom in there, but you will be using this house, this is your home. So even that was a controlled environment. That is interesting.

1:23:14Mm-hmm. That is interesting. So it forces you to have to go into the house to interact. Yes. But we do that anyway. It was a bit thingy, but now I look back, it was obviously because he weren't going to be there. That's what I think anyway. Okay. But I think, oh, maybe he thought, no, you will be in this house. You won't go. I can give you a little bit of freedom, but not as much as you want. You ain't moving out. Right. You're in your garden. You ain't going nowhere. But it also could be that he wanted to see you. But he saw us. I lived there. You know, but he wanted to make sure that you. Oh, you mean when he passed?

1:23:47Yeah, came back. You have talked about building an empire. Yes. Right. You have this show that is incredibly successful. Thank you. That I'm sure is going to create more shows and more projects. Put it to the universe, Paul. Oh, no, it will. Thank you. I think, I will say this is, and I'm not saying this to gas you up, but I'm going to tell you. Go on, gas me. Don't be shy. And the thing that I want to pass you up is that you are exceptional talent. Thank you so much. That means a lot. You're the type of person that just comes around once every few years. You know what I mean? Wow. That means so much.

1:24:26In the industry. Thank you. And so there's no doubt what the future holds for you. Thank you. But here's a question that I have. And I was thinking about this coming in. I was like, wow, she still lives in the estate. Still lives in the chalet? Yeah. Still. How does your identity change once you move away? Well, I feel like if you move away, it's very easy to forget where you come from. And I don't want to, because even though I come from, you know, hardness and survival and struggle, that's who I am. That is what I am. I know like posh girl has had it really good. So I'm not going to pretend I have been.

1:25:12Like you moving from the projects, even though that must have been amazing for you in your career, I completely understand it on a survival level. You probably love the projects though. Yeah. I mean, yes and no. No, you probably want your kids there. I get that. Right, right, right. And I get that. But you, for you, you love it because it made half of you. It made part of you. Yeah, all right. You might have been beat up. You might have won some fights. You might have been robbed. You might be like, how many lessons did you learn that you didn't learn in school? Yes, true facts. Yes. And that's why I'm grateful for that.

1:25:43All right, I might not be so academically clever, which I wish I was. I'm very street smart. I can definitely read a room. I can definitely read a tone of someone's voice changing. I can read the tone of the footsteps going up the stairs. So, all right, I can't read that way. I can read other things that you couldn't, which is another skill. Yes, yes. So now, will you move or will you not move? I don't have that thing of moving. So really, you don't see that leaving? To be honest, I feel like I'd travel and I'd explore. I feel like I'd always come back to my safety net. Even if I went travelling for like three weeks Thailand or here, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to get home.

1:26:23That chalet now as an adult is my safe spot. If I want to cry in there, I can. I've got no adult telling me not to be a pansy. I've got no one telling me to get over it. If I want to go in there and sing, I'll go in there and sing. If I want to go in, whatever, it's just my room. It's my room, my space, nothing else. I'm safe here. Wow. Okay. Okay. So then when you think about empire and building an empire, because I've heard you mention this a few times. What is an empire to you? Building on the foundations I already have. Okay. So adding to what I have. I feel like some people neglect what they've got and then try and chase a different thing over here where I want that with me and that.

1:27:07I don't want to... Like, if it was my way, I'd buy the whole estate. If I had all the money, I'd buy all the estate. I'd do cheap rent for everyone, for all the mothers that are on benefits and struggling. Like, it's to benefit people. It wouldn't be to be like, ha, I'm in power, I'm in... No, no, no. It's more of, like, I'm here to help you and I can instead of a power trip thing. I don't have that weird power thing. Yes. It's more of like, how can I guide you? How can I, what can I give you to make you feel better? That's just how I've, that's what I've been programmed. Okay. Okay. All right.

1:27:40I'm with you on this. What about you and dating? What about it? I know. This is, this is, it's interesting for some people. Everyone loves when I talk about dating, but to certain guests, but, but you could be maybe the only guest that's like, I don't want to talk about this. I'm so scared. I'm scared, Paul. But, I mean, you did date on your show. I mean, it was some speed dating. I might have lip gloss for this, Paul. You ain't getting me like that, man. Nah. We're supposed to be friends here, Paul. I see every time it's a tough topic, you go to your lip gloss. I need time, Paul. I need time.

1:28:13Some people, they go to their vape. You go to your lip gloss. Yeah. I'm like, hold on. And you have no more lip gloss in there. No. Oh, there's a little bit. Yeah. I'm getting it out. There's a little bit. Look at you trying to promo my lip gloss. That's for you, Paul. I'm sending something to you off anyway, bro. Come on. Send some. Send some. But so. Sorry, I'm here. And as detailed or as loose as you want, but I'm just curious about you and if you see any importance of having a partner. Because many people today say, you know what? This is no longer important to me. But I see that it is a part of that blueprint that you talk about that you grew up under is having a partner.

1:28:55So how will you or how do you view partnership now? It's really hard for me to answer because I feel like my, unfortunately, my concept of love from my first relationship is fucked. I don't feel like love to me isn't safe, unfortunately. which is weird because I've got so much love to give and I love loving people but to actually like the idea of bleeding in front of a shark again just doesn't appeal to me but I do understand the strength of having a man around I think a man should be around I think a lot of people glorify of being like a single mum and this and that when it's actually really hard like I'm not a single mum but I'm around single mums I've been an auntie that's had to pick slack up Do you know what I mean?

1:29:44I've had to be an auntie to friends' babies when they're... It's very important, the presence of a man, the leadership, the control, the empathy of a man, and I am aware of that. But I also feel like you need to have control of you first before you allow a man to do that. I couldn't allow a man in, like I said, and bleed in front of him when I'm trying to heal myself. I couldn't expect him to heal me when I've got so many wounds I haven't addressed yet. That's fair. All right, I hear you. I hear you. I will say that just keep in mind not all of us are sharks. Some of us are goldfish. You know what?

1:30:22Some of us are whales, right? There's a whole variety. But I respect what you've had to deal with, what you've had to survive. And I understand your positioning. Yeah, but it's also like when you've only swam with sharks, why would I want to swim with a goldfish? I don't know how to. Great point. But that is something I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to un-program my programming. It's hard, especially when you're young. Like you said, I feel like people only do that really in their 30s and 40s. I had to really snap like 22. I had to be like, what is going on? But thank you for giving me the option to, if I want to explore that, I can.

1:31:05Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate you for that. I feel as if you have a more clear or perhaps more than at any point in your life, you have a crystal clear view of who you are. Yeah. What you stand for, what your boundaries are. Yeah. What your identity is. You know, I have a lot of conversations around identity here, which I didn't think I would, but I do. I like that though. And I always say that identity is the story that we tell about ourselves that we believe. Yeah. So what do you believe your identity is today? I think I am a lovely woman who is from a gypsy background, also a gorgeous background into that household, and I live poorly on an estate.

1:31:52I'm a kind woman, I've got a good heart, and my morals are impeccable. People might, you know, people can say what they want. You'd never hear me not saying please and thank you. You'd never not hear me offering you what I've got. I would never be online slagging a girl down bullying them I wouldn't do that you know so there's a lot of things that I think people would say I'm not but there's a lot of things I definitely am alright alright I'm with it I have only two more things however is there anything we have not yet talked about that you want to make sure that we have a part of this conversation I just want to make it clear of what the intention of the show is.

1:32:33Let's do it. Do you want me to say or you lead it off? Oh, no, you lead it off. Thank you. You lead it off. Thank you. There you go. I just want everyone to know that this show isn't about all gypsies. I don't know why people are so confused by that. It's about my life, my upbringing. The thing is about the show, when I was making it, I specifically said I didn't want certain stereotypes. I feel like if you look at big fat gypsy weddings, yes, all right, you know, I feel like they did cause a little bit of harm to our community. So I didn't want it stereotyped. I didn't want to show them my sister cleaning the trailer.

1:33:02My sisters have trailers. My sister Ruby and Pearl lived in the trailer for 10 years. Yeah? So there's loads of things I could show you. I didn't want it stereotyped. Like, I didn't want it where we're sitting there making a bacon pudding. We're making a stew. Yes. I feel like you saw that. I didn't want to stereotype it from Big Fat Chips. I wanted to, like, flip it and be like, listen, I come from more ways of life than that. And because I haven't done that, I feel like I'm getting a lot of heat for not stereotyping it, like, for not showing us all cleaning, for us not getting a trailer for like you know what I mean I feel like I've been punished for trying to break us out of a stereotype yes and with uh Big Fat Gypsy Wedding what I remember about that was it won a BAFTA or nominated for a BAFTA I think right um eight million people watched it right so it was one of those where it created a lot of noise or I shouldn't say noise It created a lot of attention around the gypsy community.

1:33:58Yeah. And people argued for and against the attention that it got. So your thought going into your show, and this was your show, this was your idea, was that you distinctly did not want to showcase any stereotypes. No, I thought it would benefit us. I, I, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. Go on, yeah, do your thing. Do you know it was not until I came to the UK now about eight years ago that I fully began to understand the level of prejudice or should I say actually discrimination? So it wasn't until I got here eight years ago that I saw the extreme discrimination towards the gypsy community.

1:34:44Yeah. I didn't get it until I came here. And what I have seen, what I find fascinating is how that level of discrimination appears to sustain itself. Like it's still hot. It's stuck. It's stuck. Like it's not, it doesn't feel like it's going anywhere. That is what's so sad because I feel like in the show I explain that, like my whole life of being in that culture clash and that I want to be in that safe space. And I feel like I've made it right. And it's coming from my own community, which is so sad. Like, it's so sad. And then when you react, like when I've reacted out of anger, they'll play victim and then I'm wrong again.

1:35:25And it's like, oh. And that's my old blueprint, arguing. Why am I arguing? What am I doing? Truly, you are a businesswoman, calm down. Not the whole world, like you said, you went, not all of us are sharks. All I've been around is sharks. It's hard to take things when I feel like I'm getting bit from everywhere. Like, it's hard for me just to hold it and go, oh, go on, you bite my arm off, you want? Oh, go on, you bite this off without me saying, saying. and then I react and I look bad and that's what's hard because I have to channel I have to regulate and that's what's hard because all I want to do is defend what I've always had to do yes yes I can see it I can see it I have so enjoyed talking to you same I there's one final image that I want to show you yeah but what I want you to do is I want you to look at this from truly precious temple, a million followers, like, you know, top television show.

1:36:22Like, I want you to look at it from... An outsider's view. From, no, from your... Oh, like, okay. This is your view. Right. And I want you to give advice to the person in this image. Okay. Okay. All right. You ready? No, but go on. I know, you're not ready, but I think this is important. Should I close my eyes? Absolutely, you can.

1:36:48Oh.

1:36:54Sorry, is every time I see my dad?

1:37:10Just saying. Who's in that photo? It's me, my daddy, and my sisters. Honey, Ruby, and Pearlie, the girls on the show. And I think we're somewhere from the looks of it. I think we're in Australia. I think we're travelling here. Oh, wow. Okay. I remember some of this. I remember being on his shoulders at one point. And he told me to get off because I was too heavy.

1:37:36I'll just tell her, this is your unit. This is your team. Right now, this is your team. You might feel like, because you're young, and they're coming for you, because you're the baby, that they might be attacking you as well, but they are your safe space. They mean well. And it will be you and them versus the world always. That's what I'd say to them. Hold your head high, you know what you're doing. Don't worry about everyone else's visions. Don't be trying to get business advice of people that ain't got businesses. Don't be trying to get, you know, life advice of people that have had the same life 40 years.

1:38:11know you, you know what you want, go and get it and bring them to the top. That's what I'd say. And hit a million! That's what I'd say. There's always something from a guest that I will always take with me. I love that. This is your team. I'm going to tell that to my boys. I think that is so profound and succinct. It's like, see everyone? This is your team. And your boys, you've got two boys? Yes. You make sure they know because you're the man of the family, yeah? You're the head. God forbid anything happens, they will have to look after their mum and each other, of what they've got. So, yeah, it will be...

1:38:53And I'm not talking on that existence. I take that from the universe. I don't wish anything like that on your family, ever. I'm just saying things in life happen, whether it's later in life or quicker in life, whatever, and you still... You can never be prepared. My dad was dying for two years and I was never prepared for it, even watching him die. But what I was prepared is that we were drowning, but together. And that's what matters. I'm definitely going to tell them. Good. That's my promise to you. Yeah, I love that. I'm definitely going to. Matter of fact, you know what I'm going to do? Is I'm just going to clip this and show it to them.

1:39:23Yes, good. Good. Yeah. And I love, I love, do you know what I love about you speaking to you? I love how, and when I say feminine, I don't mean like you're a feminine man. You're so in touch with yourself and emotions. And that must be so lovely to have, especially you having two sons. like I can only imagine their future wives being like oh what men what men they are like your wife must love to like if she won't you now crying you could speak to her oh you could calm her you could be her peace not a chaos not her what's she doing and that's so lovely to see and have in a man so you should be really proud that's such a lovely thing to have yeah I appreciate that you know I I really do.

1:40:03I think I have learned, and I think a lot of, or not a lot, some men have a hard time understanding that you can have, and you do have parts of you that are masculine. You have masculinity. Of course. Show up in parts of you. And then there's feminine. There's femininity in parts of you. Which is beautiful. A beautiful thing. Which is what makes us human. and what was hard for me over my life is to understand that and then embrace it of course of course you know but but but i've reached a balance the two so hard yes that's what i said about my brother i felt like he was so heightened in that personally could be even like on a level yes like my brother needs to go mad and be masculine all right cool i think any man can really do that that's part of their programming right but for you to challenge a part of you that isn't your programming is to understand what someone's saying, even if you don't, or to listen without judgment is such a good trait to have.

1:41:08You will have very strong, loving boys. I'm so gassed for you, even as my friend. I'm like, I'm so happy. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And thank you so much for having me. I had a good time. Sorry for the trauma dump, Paul. Oh, no, no, no. Can I have that photo? I'm going to give you all these photos, but I have to give you the last question. Oh, yeah. Because everyone gets this question. And this is my favorite. So, truly, you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn?

1:41:48I don't know. I keep saying I don't know how to answer it. How can I say a different sentence? Sorry, what's a better sentence? That one works for me. All right, I need your mic. Sorry, just be trying there. Yeah, do you know what? But it's hard because I feel like I've had so many good conversations from so many different people that have taught me in different ways. Like, I've got people in the estate that would have taught me something when I was younger, streetwise. I got something here from you, even talking to you. It was so nice to speak to you, even just how you don't... Like, you asked me a question earlier, I can't remember what it was, but I've never been asked that.

1:42:16And then I thought, oh, I've never asked that to myself. So I think every day speaking to people, I've been very modicoddled, so every day me speaking to people is a new element of me that I'm unravelling. and I like that. It's scary, but I do like that. I do like learning and I do like being open to what I can change or what I can do. So everything to me is a bonus when it comes to speaking to people, to be honest. I've asked that too. We've had, what, 100 guests? No one has ever given that answer. I'm sorry, I'm the favorite one. Did you report that? Me too. Oh my gosh, you're going to get me to trouble.

1:42:53You are definitely going to stand as one of my most memorable guests. Thank you so much. And I'll tell you the characteristic that I most adore about you that I didn't realize was truly you. And that is your transparency. I love that you are open about your challenges. You're open about your grief. But you're also open about your passion. you're also open about you know you loving on you thank you you know and what i find to be so hard with television talent and talent today is the performance oh yeah now to a certain degree do we all have to perform yes well like if you're having a bad day you can't show that or something yeah Cool.

1:43:52Yeah. But you don't pretend who you are. No. It's like, this is who I am. And it's so interesting to me that we are having this conversation because I had a conversation recently in this room, but it was off camera. Oh, wow. Okay. And it was about how it's interesting to me about how certain guests will sit down and I feel as if there's a turn on for the camera. Yeah. Whereas others will come in the door a certain way, but then sit down, be that same way, and leave that same way. And in my mind, I say that consistency to me is what success is. That's successful. Being able to show up as you, fully you.

1:44:43Thank you. And what I love about you so much is that you have had this tussle with who you are throughout your life, but you reached a point where you showed the world who you are and the world embraced you. And so my ask for you going forward is to continue to do that no matter how much adversity, no matter how much criticism, is always show up fully as you because that is success. Amen. Amen, I agree. And I love that, even you saying that, even you being like, show up as you, because it just resonates. That's all I've ever had to do. Show up and show up and show up. And now it's at a point where I've got higher, successful people being like, oh, you showed up, well done.

1:45:28I'm like, thank you, Paul. Yes, I did. I've been showing up for years. Thank you, Paul. Jesus, take your time getting me on here. It's all right. We're all friends. I'm sorry we didn't get you on earlier. It's all right. I forgive you, Paul. I know you're from the projects. I'll forgive you. There you go. There you go. Thank you. Thank you so much. God bless. Truly precious temple. What I felt in this conversation more than any is how heavily discriminated the gypsy community is to this day. It's one thing to read statistics, but it's another to talk to someone who's actively living through the discrimination.

1:46:13And that's the top item that I walk away with. I mean, how many of us don't have a complicated relationship with our dads? You know, this is the more and more that I sit across from phenomenal people, the more and more you see how complicated our lives actually are and how you can have multiple emotions occupy a single space. You can be upset with someone and love and have joy at the same time, love them at the same time. And so truly in her transparency outlined, I think, just how human she is by talking about the complications with her father. You know, there's the show The X Factor, and it does stem from the theory of there is an X factor, something that you just can't compute about someone that makes them exceptional.

1:47:19Truly has the X Factor. I was like, you know what? I need to one-up these gays. I'm just gonna sprinkle a little bit of, like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? But I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I had internalized homophobia, but I wanted to be seen. And that's when I started my YouTube training. I just remember taking Am I Gay quizzes. Really? Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. So there was the strong, independent woman who was so caring and nurturing.

1:47:55And then there was this very depressed and emotionally abusive version. Darkness definitely took over. At 19, when I got the opportunity to move to LA, there was like no hesitation. My mom was out visiting me. She was basically saying her goodbyes to me. She said, I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol, and she was overdosing. I remember just looking at her, taken out on a stretcher, and I said, well, my boyfriend at the time, Daniel, was traveling, and I was by myself again. I didn't know what to do. Do you believe that you will find love again? Neither of us have been in a relationship sense.

1:48:37That could potentially change everything.