Tulisa Exclusive: I Say When It's OVER! I'm Tired Of The Lies. I Am Ready To Share My Story - PART 1 - We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson: Summary & Transcript

In short

Podcast Summary: We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson

Episode Title

Tulisa Exclusive: I Say When It's OVER! I'm Tired Of The Lies. I Am Ready To Share My Story - PART 1

Episode Description In this first part of a two-part series, Tulisa shares her inspiring journey from a turbulent childhood filled with family mental health challenges to achieving fame with N-Dubz and as a judge on X-Factor. The conversation delves into her personal experiences with trauma, resilience, and empowerment, while also addressing sensitive topics such as sexual assault and self-harm.

Key Themes and Topics Discussed

Introduction to Tulisa's Story
Overview of Tulisa's rise to fame and challenges faced.
The importance of discussing sensitive topics openly.

Early Life and Family Background
Growing Up in Camden
Diversity and authenticity of Camden life.
Impact of a chaotic childhood filled with family struggles.
Family Dynamics
Complex relationship with her mother, who faced mental health issues.
Role as a caregiver for her mother from a young age.
Coping strategies as a child amidst chaos.

Mental Health Struggles
Personal insights on family mental health challenges.
Tulisa’s reflection on her childhood experiences and emotional detachment.
Discussion of self-harm and coping mechanisms.

Love and Relationships
Tulisa's early romantic experiences and feelings towards first love.
The impact of her upbringing on attachment styles in relationships.
Exploration of physical intimacy and its early associations.

Traumatic Experiences
Candid discussion on sexual assault and its lasting implications.
Reflections on self-blame and societal perceptions of victimhood.

The Journey to Fame
Transition from N-Dubz to becoming a judge on X-Factor.
The role of authenticity in her music and public persona.
The impact of public perception and media narratives on her career.

The Tape Incident
Detailed account of the events surrounding the release of a personal tape.
The emotional turmoil and public scrutiny faced during this time.
Discussion on the trial and the fallout from the incident.

Key Takeaways

Resilience and Empowerment: Tulisa's story is one of overcoming adversity, highlighting the importance of resilience and self-belief through traumatic experiences.

Authenticity in the Public Eye: The challenges of maintaining authenticity while navigating fame is a central theme, showcasing the complexities of her dual identities as a public figure and a private individual.

Impact of Mental Health: The episode emphasizes the significance of mental health discussions, particularly regarding familial influences and personal experiences.

Navigating Relationships: Tulisa’s reflections on love and attachment reveal the deep-seated impacts of her childhood, shaping her romantic experiences and emotional connections.

Additional Resources

Support for Sensitive Topics: Links to organizations that provide support for individuals dealing with trauma and mental health challenges, such as The Survivors Trust and MIND.

Conclusion The episode not only provides a powerful narrative of Tulisa's life but also serves as a platform for discussing difficult topics that are often avoided. The listener is left with a sense of hope and empowerment, along with a teaser for the next part of Tulisa's story in Episode 2.

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For more insightful conversations, follow the podcast on Instagram [@needtotalk](https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk) and TikTok [@weneedtotalkpod](https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod).

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Transcript

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0:00Today, we have an exclusive conversation with the one and only Talisa, a powerhouse singer, N-Dub's icon and former judge on X-Factor. Fresh out of the jungle after her unforgettable appearance on I'm a Celebrity, she's sitting down for her first in-depth chat since leaving the camp. Her story is as raw and real as it gets. Between her turbulent childhood and achieving massive success, Talisa has faced relentless criticism, endured the fallout from a sex tape scandal, survived a harrowing drug sting, and battled mental health struggles. Her journey is a testament to resilience, finding her voice and turning adversity into empowerment.

0:42Let me tell you, this conversation was so huge, we've had to split it into two parts. Get ready. This is Talisa like you've never seen her before. In this episode, we speak about the turbulence Talisa experienced in her younger years. There's some interesting people watching to do in Camden. Like every walk of life, every type of character, every bit of joy, every bit of issue you can find in Camden. We look back at the early years of N-Dubs. We went from the liquor rinses to NW1, which was our postcode. Daffy was like, we need to switch this to N-Dubs for short. So it's NW. And that's how N-Dubs came about.

1:29And we dive into Talisa's views on the importance of authenticity. I love podcasts. It's bringing realness to the world. It's bringing authenticity. This is some kind of difference because I get to speak truth. I get to promote authenticity. This makes it worth it. Yes. Please be aware that this episode discusses sensitive topics, including sexual assault and self-harm. If you're affected by anything discussed, we've included links in the show notes to organizations that can provide support.

2:06We need to start in Camden. In Camden time. I've been to Camden. I've had plenty to drink in Camden. Have you? Oh my God. So there's the waterway through there, which is one of the, I think, the coolest areas of all of London. Yeah. Is that water? I do love it. It is cool. But what I love to do most in Camden is actually people watch. Oh, really? I love it. And there's some interesting people watching to do in Camden. It's like every walk of life, every type of character, every bit of joy, every bit of issue you can find. You find it in Camden. You find it. You find what I feel like is it's one of those areas of London where you see authenticity.

2:47Yeah. And you don't see fabrication and fake. Agreed. I never thought about it like that. It's a very, very real place. It's very diverse, but extremely real. Yes. Everyone's very much owning their energy in Camden. Yes. Yeah. So this is where you were born? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So when you think about how did Camden shape who you've become today? Gosh, I think it's every part of me, really. Well I guess the diversity allows you to be able to mingle with all different types of people because you grow up with all different types of people from all different walks of life, all different kinds of experiences.

3:27I think back to the friends that I grew up with, unfortunately a lot of them lived very chaotic lives. They had a lot of troubles, you know, troubles with parents and at home. So I saw a lot more of the chaotic side of Camden, the chaos and the drugs and the fighting and the drama. But there were also a lot of good moments, you know. It is an incredible place, as you know, a lot of fun to be had. I was running around drinking in Camden from the age of 13 with a white strike in my hand. I've done my fair share of drinking in Camden. But, yeah, I mean, it's also toughened me a lot. It's given me the ability to, I guess you could go from zero to 100 if need be, which isn't a strength we should need, but at times we do.

4:22Well, it's musically, the music in Camden growing up. I think back to the old school garage culture and the Miss Dynamite, who's also from Camden around the So Solid era. And music was everything to us. We just lived and breathed it 24-7. As I was saying before we started, I used to have my tape cassette that I would record these things on pirate radio. So, yeah, it shaped me into who I am. Yeah, yeah, I can see it. Like, I feel like there have been some incredible world-class creatives who've come out of Camden. I mean, Amy Winehouse. Enough said. Enough said. Enough said. Drop the mic. Drop the mic.

5:07Done. We're done. Next question. That's it for Camden. Next. Yeah. So when you think about, so your parents, did they move to Camden because of all of what you just mentioned or were there other reasons? No. So here's the strange thing about my story. So I was actually more, we say Camden because as a group, we're all collectively in the Camden borough and the Camden area. I was a little bit more up the road. So I was in between a kind of a place called Hampstead, Kentish Town West and Queen's Crescent, that kind of area. But it's all Camden to us. People growing up there, it's like, yeah, we're from Camden.

5:51Dappy was like central bang in the middle of an estate on Camden So my parents were living with my grandparents My dad's parents at the time And we all were So me, Dappy and his parents and my parents Living under one roof I think to the age of like three years old Oh wow, okay Yeah and then a council flat became available in that area And so that's where they went So literally, it wasn't a conscious decision, I don't think. It was just wherever there was availability. And it was a nice council flat as far as council flats go. You know, it could have been on a really dodgy estate, but it was like a conversion house.

6:34It was a one bedroom, which obviously wasn't great. I had sleep in the same bedroom as my parents to the age of nine. But it was on a decent road. It was on a nice road and a nicer area than we could have been in. so it was you know so you slept in your parents bedroom until the age of nine until the age of nine years old how does that work i mean there's one bed over here and that's mine and then they sleep on the other side of the room in a double bed um and yeah it was like that to the age of nine until my parents got divorced and then my mum moved out into the living room so i could have a room and we both had our own bedrooms it was a part of the court order that i was the the judge said she has to have her own room her own bedroom so it had to happen basically for everything to pan out the way that it had interesting yeah interesting so so you were with your mother early on in life that i mean clearly the relationship with your mother yeah has impacted and shaped who you are to this day.

7:41And it's interesting because, you know, the gut says, okay, it wasn't a traditional relationship, but what relationship is traditional? Like we all have unique relationships with our parents. So how would you describe the relationship with your mother, especially early on? Early on, confusing because the thing is about my mom's mental illness is there would be periods where she would be completely normal. And during those periods, she was an amazing mum. Very sweet, very kind, very gentle, very funny. Funny, funny individual. Goofy too. I really get my mum's goofy traits from her when I'm in silly mode.

8:21And then she would have an episode and then you would see the switch happen overnight and she would completely become someone else. and in the early stages I think I was so besotted with my mother you know as most people are and it would just feel like devastation I just loved her so much and it was really soul destroying that one minute she was herself and then the next minute she wasn't so I was just very confused and then as I got older I just began to very much detach and then it just became this burden that I was forced to live with. So there wasn't much of a relationship. I just wanted to get out.

9:12I wanted to get old enough to leave, which I did as soon as I was. So there wasn't really a relationship. Once that switch happened, after her being hospitalised so many times and her becoming another person, I think as a protection mechanism, I had to shut down almost my love for her because it was too much to bear the switching. You know, it's like one minute you've got best mom in the world and you'll have everything. The next minute she thinks you're a demon. So trying to comprehend that, my mind just went like almost like this isn't real. Right. So she was diagnosed. It's schizoaffective.

9:54Yes. She was misdiagnosed up until the age of I was 17. she was diagnosed as bipolar and then when i was 17 they were like oh we've made a mistake she's schizoaffective she has schizophrenia and bipolar combined combined um at which point they changed her medication and then she stopped having the episodes the last episode she had was when i was 17 she stopped having the episodes and then just became this kind of not there they basically just numbed the hell out of her in every way or form. So then you don't see manic, schizoaffective mum, but you also don't see normal mum either. So she's just...

10:35Some reduced version of herself. Yeah, just completely. So you were, what, 11 when you became primary carer for your mother. Is that true? Well, once my dad left when I was nine, it was just me and her in the house. So, I mean, I say I'm called a carer, but I only did what I was capable of doing. It's not like I woke up one day and someone gave me a certificate and said, you're now caring for your mum. There was just a natural way in the home. And even I think about it and I think, a carer? Was I really a carer? I mean, if my mum had an issue, then I would step in when her mind is starting to crumble.

11:20But generally, I felt more rebellious, if anything. I was constantly running away, constantly running away from home, wanting to be out all night, running the streets, doing everything to get away. I was a very rebellious child and I felt extremely suffocated. So there were moments when I had to step up that I would do that. But I spent most of my childhood just trying to run away. Just trying to run away. What do you think you were running away from? So in that example where you say, if there was a moment where I had to step up or step in and really become that carer, what's an example of a moment?

11:55So, like, I can recall coming home from school one day and I can't get in. And I don't know how I was outside for, like, hours. And I don't know how eventually I've managed to get in. I think I had to walk to an aunt's house. I had to find a key. And I get in and my mom's just sat on the floor. And she's been sat there for God knows how many hours. she's not coherent she's not speaking she's just rocking sat in and has gone to the toilet there and then on the floor and she's in it herself um so in that moment I would of course have to try and get her up off the floor try and get her into the bath try and get her some fresh clothes get her to dress call the hospital say she's having an episode I need someone to come and get her to which they'd say, oh, we're full, we don't have any beds.

12:48And I'd say, well, what am I supposed to do? And wait until, you know, someone takes it seriously. That's extraordinary responsibility for a nine-year-old, 10-year-old, 11-year-old. Yeah, it was. I don't think it felt that way at the time. That was just my life. I didn't know anything else. what about others uh other family members your your father there was a lot of conflict it wasn't a good breakup between my mom and dad so it was very much my dad was like oh you can come with me and so when I stayed with mom there was this kind of divide between them my time with my dad was my time with my dad my time with my mom was my time with my mom um I had aunts that did help a lot through my younger years but at times where I was really too young so I had an aunt that when my mum would get sectioned I would go and live with her for long periods of time but there was a period I think I felt quite alone maybe it was when I was around like 14 there was this distance among the family and it really felt like anyone was there and that for me was the hardest time but that's very much changed now like my my aunt cares she does everything for my mom in terms of i'm i'm not there in that sense at all okay so that dynamic has very much changed so sectioned just so that i fully understand is when you were sectioned specifically what what does that mean so my mom getting sectioned it's like she is out of control and they have to, beyond her wants, take her in hospital and keep her there against her wishes that she can't leave.

14:42She's legally sectioned to the hospital because she's a danger to herself, she's a danger to others and, of course, a danger to me. And these are some of these calls you had to make? Yeah. To be like, help. I would imagine this has happened from nine all the way. Yeah. But at nine, it must be the earliest incidence of this. Oh, no, it started from when I was born. My earliest recollection is from when I'm like four years old, my mum being dragged away and sectioned. At four? You recall that? Yeah, yeah, I can recall. What impact? I don't know. I was too young to take it in. I remember my parents screaming the house down.

15:19I remember rocking in between a bin and a cooker. I remember police turning up, and I remember my mum being dragged away and screaming her head off, screaming my name. And then I remember a police officer sat with me, just not really knowing what to say. And that was it. I didn't really get the opportunity to feel until I got older. Okay. How do you process as a four-year-old? When I oftentimes think about processing something, I think, okay, what would I then tell myself at that point? so what would you tell Talisa at four seeing your mother being taken away by the police I feel like it is what it is for like this answer would disappoint people I'm a very tough love person I'm really kind and like sweet with my friends and I can be really gentle everyone comes to me I'm the counsellor but when it comes to myself I am like really really tough love so I would probably quite literally say listen this is crap it's gonna get worse I just need you to hang on in there like that's it you just need to be an absolute soldier I need you to be a weapon remember you are the biggest beast in every room there are no demons out there bigger than you yes and that's why I would say to myself get it together you're gonna survive yeah can I ask this is why do you think that will disappoint many people?

16:52I don't know. They say that's a bit harsh to say to a four-year-old. It's not everyone necessarily thinks like me in the way that I speak to myself. And I still do. And you still do. Yeah. I think there's going to be a common theme across your life as to that story. Can I show you something? Yeah. A little surprise for you. Yeah. You ready for this? Yeah, I'm excited now. Just sit here. Ready? Oh, my God. All right, you have to close your eyes. I'm nervous. Something's hyping up. It's like, you ready? You ready? You ready? You ready? You ready? I'm like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh my God. It's like a bush tucker child.

17:21Jesus. Waiting for the huntsman to drop down. It's coming. I wasn't ready. All right, cool. Okay. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. All right. And now, no, no, no, don't open it. Don't open it. Now, when you open it, what I want you to tell me is what is the first thought that comes to mind when you see this. Oh, God. Okay, ready? Yeah. All right. Take a look. nah i think in the summertime when the weather is high you can just ride on it's the first thought it's the first thought yeah any other thoughts the other thought is is that that's not actually my dad so where people have got it twisted is that my dad was in the band later so mungo jerry when they were at their peak they did their thing they were mungo jerry as a band and then mungo hired my dad and my uncle later much later down the line to tour with him so he wasn't actually a part of the original band like that because since i've come out of the jungle i've seen this everywhere like talisa was a nepo baby and i was like no no no it didn't happen that way no it didn't happen that way so your father was a musician yeah okay keyboardist right yeah all right yeah same with your uncle although your uncle was a bass player bass guitar And so they became members of Mungo Jerry.

18:45But before that, it sounds like they were trying to do their own thing. Yes. So my grandfather, on the contrary, was a diplomat for the United Nations. Very wealthy man, very wealthy family. And my dad and my uncle were the rebels. and my grandfather had said to them, look, you can do everything I do, you can have all of this, but you need to go through school, you need to learn this, you need to do that, you need your degree, and you live the same life. And they said, no, we're not doing it. We want to be musicians. And my grandfather was, I think he's a very wise man. I would have taken the same approach.

19:27He gave them a small amount of money, which was enough for them to buy, had this little room in Dollis Hill and set up studio. equipment and then he said right on your way do you and that's it yeah and i'm cutting you off no not cutting off emotionally oh yeah but but yeah financially exactly yeah um so there's always been conflicting stories oh my grandfather was a diplomat well yeah i would have a great summer when i'd go to greece but i would still you know go back to a one-bed council flat so that's where I think the confusion is about the story um but it was very fascinating for me to see those two walks of life and understand um gave me a lot of knowledge and understanding of people different people I also had my grandparents come to me and say you can live this life you do the same thing you can come out here you can live with us we'll put you through boarding schools um to which i responded i'm not going to leave my mother wow look at that yeah so you had an opportunity to live the life yeah i probably would have been a doctor by now isn't that interesting i know so your father so you definitely are your father's daughter 100 % like it's only like it's horrific i remember like my dad getting called into schools like back in the day and And they were saying, right, your daughter's done this.

20:58And she bumped off. And then we caught her, you know, smoking in the back toilet. And his response was literally, she's her father's daughter. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. That's it. So financially, your father was struggling. Yeah. Okay. But he was a grafter. Like, don't get it twisted. And I always had some fresh trainers on my feet. He made sure that. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure. But he is, I mean, especially, you know, let's face it, like musicians. Yeah. Especially. It's not what people think. Like, it is not at all. Especially in them times and playing in a band behind the scenes as in you're not the front singer or you haven't done the writing.

21:34It doesn't work like that. It's hard. So financially this makes sense that it was incredibly challenging. And I think it's important to set that stage because without the finances, the support that parents – parents don't have the tools that they need for their children. So what ends up happening is children have to fend for themselves. and that's what it sounds like you had to do. Yeah, well, I mean, financially, my dad always supported me and had my pocket money and, you know, what I needed to go to school and eat and do whatever I needed to do. But we basically weren't, you know, rich. There were times when they were both on benefits and there were times when, you know, my dad had been a lot and then he'd have a little bit more extra cash to go around.

22:18But generally, I think when I hit 15, I was like, Like, I need money. And that's when I went out and got a job. Okay. Yeah. But as far as the emotional support, do you feel as if your father was there for you?

22:38Listen, me and my dad's relationship has not been a conventional one. As we always say, what is. I would say me and my dad now we're just more friends that kind of have an understanding of one another.

23:01Do you feel as if he supported your mother enough? I feel like there's certain things that I can't go into because of family, wanting to protect family. Okay. You know? Which is fair. Yeah. Like, I don't want to sit and say things and my grandmother, you know what I mean, be upset about anything that I'm saying. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. With every guest that comes, I always spend moments talking about their parents or their first caregivers and the love that they had or lack of love that they had because that forms our attachment. Right. And I know that you've done some work on this or at least that you've done the reading and you're familiar with this.

24:02But our attachment really does form from that. So when you look back now, just as assessing your attachment, what attachment do you believe you landed on as a result of your upbringing? None. That was the problem. I became very, very detached. And I remained very, very detached from most of my life. I never zoned in. on particular bonds I was someone that was very loving full of love very sweet very sensitive on the inside even though I had this really tough exterior I'm a sop internally but when it came to individual bonds and really creating love I don't feel like I ever knew what love was and I don't think I ever felt love until probably recent years and I found that in friends I learned love much much later in my life um very detached individual and the same friends that I have now the people that I've built the love I have with they would sit here and say this like it took 10 years to get her or any kind of vulnerability from me I am so blessed to have those individuals in my life to teach me love.

25:33I learned love and they taught me it. But you've learned it now. Now. But early on. No. You know, when you talk about not having an attachment, that's normally framed as an avoidant. I am an avoidant. Have you heard about these different styles? I'm an avoidant. Everything that I read and see about you, I'm like, Talisa's avoidant. Yeah. She's prototype avoidant. I'm a prototype. Like prototype. You are the perfect avoidant. To the point where you could see how this is the reason why you are so self-reliant. Why you are so much of a rebel. Because when someone is avoidant, they realize early on in life that the only person they can rely on is who?

26:15Me. And then this manifests itself. But I'm curious, though. So sometimes when we start off as avoidant or anxious or secure, we then fall in love romantically early on. Interesting. I know where you're getting at. Yes. I mean, take me there. Yeah, I did. I was, I guess, in a sense, I don't believe it was real love. I would get caught in the fantasy with the right individual of like, well, this is love. This will take me away from the lack of love that I'm feeling. So I definitely had some intense relationships from a very young age. Okay. All right. Was this the beginning of you becoming sexually active?

27:05Yeah. This was like just after I'd lost my virginity. Can we talk about losing your virginity? Okay. Woo! We like to go there. Okay. Because that informs, a lot of us don't talk, I think, enough about losing our virginity. Okay. And typically the satisfaction or lack of satisfaction that we have in that first experience informs our subsequent experiences. Complete lack of nothing. Nothing going down in China. Nothing, not at all. Yeah, it was just, I think from that moment, I decided this was just a form of showing affection. I never got the physical pleasure aspect until way, way, way, way later in life.

27:55I was one of the last people that I knew to lose white virginity. Did that, being one of the last, did that add any pressure? um sometimes i think i remember getting into arguments well arguments fights with girls and there would be a thing where guys like to take girls virginities so if a lot of the girls had already lost their virginity certain guys would pay me more attention because I was like one of the last versions so it was like a competition thing and the girls I actually got attacked off the back of it once because someone's someone that had taken someone's virginity already or that was sleeping with was then going out and taking me on dates trying to court me to take my virginity so yeah I guess in a sense it caused, I wouldn't say pressure, it caused drama.

28:59As a result? Yeah. See, you know, you look at the games that we play and you ask yourself why. Yeah. You know, what would you tell Fortile Talisa? The same thing every goddamn time. Keep your shit together. Survive. You're going to get through this. Don't fear anything. There's nothing for you to be scared of. There's nothing to be scared of. Yeah. Look at this. I always say you're the biggest demon in the room. And when you get scared of demons, I'm afraid of the dark. I sleep with the light on to this day. Do you really? Yeah, I think this stems from sleeping in the same room as my parents. They would always leave the light on until they came to bed.

29:36So if I'm alone, I can't sleep with the light off. But as a spiritual person, sometimes when I'm in the dark, I feel like I can feel things. And I always say to myself, there is no freaking demon in this room bigger than you. Not that I walk around as a demon, but it's the inner beast that is there. to tap into if you need it. And that's always my motto. Yes. That's what I tell people. When did you think spirituality first enter your life? Oh, right from the beginning. Right from the beginning. We're talking like, I want to say six, seven years old. Okay, early. Both my parents' families and my mom were very religious.

30:23so I didn't quite understand my spirituality yet. But I used to have an icon of Mother Mary above my bed. Okay. And one night I could hear my parents going at it as they would and I could hear screaming and getting really loud and then I was on my bed and I remember rocking and I start praying and I'm like, please Mother Mary, please Mother Mary, please make a stop, please make a stop. And then after doing this for not very long, It went from, like, what sound is like, is hell, to silence. But it was scary, where I thought something was wrong. So I freaked out and crawled, I remember, like, through the hallway on the floor to peek through the gap in the door, because I thought one of them was maybe not here anymore because of this quickness of the quiet.

31:18and then I saw my parents arm in arm like that smiling madly in love like it just didn't make any sense and then that was the first time that I was like there's something more here something is protecting me or guiding me from a very young age and it's one of the things that enabled me to survive probably most of what I've survived because actually even though I've been very alone I've never felt alone look at that that's profound I know that's profound at six you became attached really to spirituality and that was your comfort yeah very much yeah and as well after something like that happening i was like you've got me so i always felt like something had me it wasn't in the conventional sense but there was something else that had me that was protecting yeah that would make sure i was going to be okay but you still waver when you have so many experiences so it wasn't solidified but i can remember specific moments where it literally got me through and i believed you know i had this real guardian level of spiritual protection behind me yes and then i'd have some bad moments and then i'd all lose faith even though i'd been shown like literally miracle level things throughout my life this is helpful for us to be aware of yeah because for so many of us spirituality enters much later in life yeah i'm talking about 70 80 yeah i know i know so then how do you you reconcile some of these challenges early on i know that there was a sexual assault yeah that happened early weirdly that experience for me i've taken the knowledge from it but i very much detached from that experience and i'd say there's other things people don't know that i'm slightly more still hold feelings towards not everything's in that book um but i guess that's the only thing I really touched on, but for me, it's actually quite low on the list, to be honest.

33:33Oh, good. But I mean, just to mention this, because you did write about this in the book Honest, what happened? I was out with a group of boys from my area, who I'd known for years, was friends with. And I remember seeing one of them, they had something in their drink and it was fizzing. and I instantly thought oh god like they're taking drugs what are you what are you putting in there and I looked to him and I was like please please please don't put anything in my drink I was like I'm super sensitive because at the time I'd started having like fits off the back of just weed so I was like I can't take any drugs like please please don't put any drugs in my drink like and he was like no no I'd never do that I'd never do that and then as the night went on I remember just feeling like what is going on and then next week you know i just remember flashes of being in a a car and just seeing the lights the street lights so i must have been lying back and i just remember open my eyes for a second seeing street lights street lights street lights and then obviously waking up in a room and then yeah the rest is history

34:48the next the following day in the book you you wrote that his mother is making a tea yeah she's unaware i'm assuming she's unaware she is unaware she is unaware yeah that her son has sexually assaulted you yeah you didn't report this no you didn't mention that to her you didn't report it if you were to go back would you have reported it knowing what you know today

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35:27i think i probably would have attacked him so i wouldn't have been able to report it that's not his truth okay probably would have punched the crap out of him and not wanted to report it because I would have got in trouble. That's what I would have done. Okay. That's the truth. I did some research. I found that one out of five rapes within the UK, there is some drugging that happens. This is incredibly prevalent, you know, to this day. I'm not someone when I feel hurt or backed in a corner goes to self-blame. I blamed him through and through. I didn't look at one bit of my actions and think, what could I have done differently?

36:13That is all. It's all here. Have you yet had a relationship that you feel like you were loved romantically? I had one when I was 12 to 13 with a boy called Carlos. Okay. And he was like my first lover. This is before intimacy. and he was a beautiful, beautiful soul and he was like a childhood sweetheart and it was a very happy time with him. Didn't unfortunately end well. I mean 12, 13, you know. Yeah, of course, is what it is. So I'd had one. Okay. And then obviously I went straight on to the older guy who had his own place. so yeah i'd had two sides of the two sides of the spectrum two sides of the spectrum i see i see um all right can we stay with boys for a second yeah okay so 16 after 16 what's the next relationship that you have so me and my bandmate phaser always had this on and off thing in between relationships So I feel like in a way, Faiza is kind of present all the way from the age of 11, all the way up.

37:33So he's always there and then I'm in a relationship with someone else. But then it's like back again. So he's also present. Then aside from that, it's Adam, who is, yeah, an ex-boyfriend of mine that probably one of my most serious relationships growing up. Okay. Yeah. And how long and what happened in that relationship? That started when I was 16. He was a UK rapper at the time and I hadn't got any success. So he was like the cool, famous one. He was a little bit older than me. I had lied to him about my age. Oh, did you? Yeah, I did. So he didn't know. I think he thought I was 18 or 17. I don't know.

38:26I told him a poor key. And I was very besotted with him. And we kind of casual dated. I felt like he didn't really take me too seriously at first. I know he liked me, but I didn't feel like he was taking me seriously. And then I was really coming into my becoming a woman stage of my life. so he was kind of with me through this transition where I went for this kind of little bit nerdy, kind of half goofy, bit naive to a badass. And then during that transition, it's like I just woke up one day and just went, ah. And then the transition happened of me kind of not, him not taking me so seriously to the turnaround.

39:16Yes, yes. All right. All right. I like it. I like it. And you said the constant, though, was Phaser kind of in and out. Yeah. And then that was in and out. It was like my safety blanket. That's my safe space with Phaser. With Phaser. Yeah. What I find interesting, so there was something that you said or wrote here, and that was that, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, that you wish you had lost your virginity to Phaser. Yeah. Okay. Break that down. That's a strong statement. Yeah. because he he was the person that loved me he's the only person that deserved it you know because that is real that's real to this day we love each other like family it doesn't matter if it's not romantic anymore that's my family that's my soul family yeah and the person that i become doesn't want anyone in my life other than soul family especially not when it comes to intimacy and that's what I'm like now to this day so there has to be soul family energy if it's not it's not for me so he's the only person you know looking back then that he means something now to it yeah why do you think it didn't remain romantic incompatibility we're just we're incompatible um there's there's a lot of love there I feel as if it was inevitable you have two people that are so close they like family close they're like friendship close and then they have an attraction there and they're constantly around each other they can't get away from each other it's inevitable so we just had to go through it to grow through it.

41:01But after being in a relationship, we're very different human beings. Very, very different, you know. And that's really what it comes down to. I see it. I see it. That's fair. That's fair. And I think knowing, having gone through, like, the trials and tribulations together. Yeah. Because you really, I think you truly know someone, not in the good times. No. But you know them in the bad times. Yeah. Yeah. We Need to Talk is quite literally brought to you by Adobe Express, the quick and easy create anything app from Adobe. The team uses it to create materials for the show, from the cover art to the social posts.

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42:59Dating isn't about success or failure. It's about the journey. So take the pressure off, open your mind, and embrace the adventure. Wherever it takes you, it starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today and see where your next connection might lead. So Phaser clearly is one-third of, I will say, now one of my new favorite groups. oh for i've even getting getting down to end ups yeah in the research have i for end ups let me tell you something like this is going to sound like i am now a super fit i love this go on hit me with is all right i don't want to lead you but i'm going to tell you my my honest opinion i think one of the most undervalued groups in the uk i'd agree with that and also i think what you all have done in terms of blending soul and pop and hip-hop yeah who else did that Talisa who else did that not any that I've heard but we can't sit here and blow our own trumpets we let the music and the fan base be for itself how many platinum albums oh god um four how many gold albums um I don't know so we've had how many hours did we have in total there's only one that is gold that didn't go platinum so oh no so two two two gold four platinum i don't even know recently the greatest hits just went platinum okay as well so i don't know yeah so that would be three so we'll say two or three platinum yeah right at least four gold yeah all right how many mobo awards i don't know four okay What's the name of the group?

44:49I don't know. I just turn up to sing and write. That's it. I probably live in a bubble. I'm one of those people. I just call out from under my rock. I'm like, is it studio time? Okay, cool. But you don't have all this on your wall? I have it in my gaming room. I have it. I know that we're four times platinum. I know that much. Okay. That's what I know. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. All right. So I said, I think, and Dub's completely undervalued. You said, I'm going to let the fan base speak. Yeah. Why do you think I said that? I think because you're someone that appreciates real music and something a lot of people didn't pay attention to when it came to being a critic or critiquing the music was the level of complex music that we make.

45:37It's very beyond our years, very mature for our years, and it's combining so many other sounds. And if you're a music man or a music woman, you're going to hear that and go, is that an orchestra string in the background? Is that an 80s guitar riff I'm hearing? Is that, you know, it's just endless. It's endless. It's endless. Can we talk about your voice? You can do. How do you rate yourself? because like when you walked into the studio I had Mary J playing yeah right and I could tell you you put everyone puts Mary J like that but how do you in terms of critiquing your voice where you place yourself I place myself as a recording artist I'm one of those people that it's about more than my voice it's about my writing it's about the little tricks and things that I throw in and the ha-has and the things that I say I feel like I'm a great artist as a whole package but I don't see myself as like a Mariah Carey of the world far from it I'm more of an edgy artist okay and a recording artist okay yeah you think that's how the the fans see you I don't think I don't know I don't know I think I have 50 50 opinions yeah yeah I think the real ones will say that you have got a voice on you.

47:05Yeah. I saw you do a Sam Smith cover. Mm-hmm. Saw the full... Yeah, I know the one you mean. Yeah, yeah. And comment after comment was like, that was a bold choice. Yeah. And she laid it down. Yeah. I don't know. I'm saying. Yeah? I'm saying. It's there. It's there. Oh, no, for sure. Yeah. So N-Dubes starts, though, as... What's the first original name for N-Dubes? The Lickle Rincers. the liquor rinses you got as we were little and we rinsed the mic liquor rinses i'm telling everything stems from jamaica in my opinion yeah i'm jamaican there you are everything so liquor rinses yeah is is it so then how does it book how does the group become n-dubs um we went from the liquor rinses to nw1 which was our postcode gotcha and that just wasn't cool enough so Dappy was like we need to switch this to like Ndubs for short so it's NW and that's how Ndubs came about.

48:09Interesting. Dappy seems to have had a profound life-changing impact on you. Yes he has actually not many people know it's that. Yeah tell me about him. Me and Daps I feel like me Me and Dappy have soul ties, soul contracts. Like I feel like we have been in each other's lives. You know, he could have been my son in the last one. Reincarnation cycles. Like we are soul tied together, me and Daps. I also sometimes feel like we are kind of a split version of one in the same. Like if Twin Flames wasn't romantic. so like we are the ying and the yang okay like i would be earth and he would be venus the one that's on fire yes covered in okay sulfuric acid and what really yeah um we are so similar in so many ways people that know us find it trippy at times where they're watching us like oh my god it's like the same person and then we are so different in so many other ways um we're more like brother and sister we trigger each other a lot it is a very intense relationship because there is no boundaries with me and daps anything that we feel it comes i mean it's hard to have any boundaries with dappy anyway because dappy's dappy but i mean seeing me and him go at it is a an experience for yeah yeah i would imagine you two would go hard to all to watch but at the same time there's not many people in this life that could annoy me at times can really upset me but i will never kick out of my life and i would also kill for yeah it's um a very bizarre Because mostly with me, if I have such an up and down relationship with someone, I'm just like, out.

50:21You disturb my peace, out. He's just that one little human that I can't forever love with or well and kill for and also kill him. Yeah. So you have unconditional love. Yes. It's what I have for DAPS. Yeah. Unconditional. Yeah. My little evil twin. You keep saying little. No, that's a, I don't, not because he's small. He's taller than me. No, not because he's small. I just, I think as a northern thing, we say little this. Did you bring your little bag tonight? Are you having your little cup of tea? It's not because he's little. It's just, I actually say little a lot. Do you know, I get pulled up on that, you know.

51:01Really? Especially sometimes, like, see if I'm dating a guy. I'm like, oh, did you eat your little thing? And they're like, stop calling me little. I'm not thinking of it like that. I was like, that's offensive. I know I keep saying it, but I don't mean it like that. You should now try to replace it with big. Right, with your big. Oh, no, it doesn't have to say, wait, go ahead. Did you bring your big bag? Did you bring your big bag? Today, little is like more endearing. It's like, did you bring your little? Yeah, it's my little cousin, you know. That's your big cousin. Yeah, he is my big cousin.

51:31He's older than me, but I'm the big cousin. I'm the big sister. All right, so clearly, though, I could see that. I could see how there's unconditional love, respect, trust, right? And with Phaser, too, I could see the three of you, truly the three of you are friends, colleagues, forever. Yeah, forever. Forever. That will never, the bond will never die. Yes. What we've experienced, I can't imagine, honestly, any band in the world has had just the dynamic, the way it's happened, everything about it. I know everyone's experience is unique, but I just feel like it's just something that is really untouchable.

52:11Yes. No one could ever really know the bond that we have. Without a doubt, the bond must have become stronger after the passing of Uncle B. Yeah. Because from what I understand, Uncle B truly was, I mean, he was managing, leading. He was the driving force. The driving force. So how, I mean, please tell us about that moment. when you found out? And then how do you then remain together? Because I can imagine that could have split up a lot of groups. Yeah. Oh, no, complete opposite. I never had anyone close to me die before. B was a very intuitive individual, spiritual himself. Okay. He knew something was wrong with him.

52:57He kept saying to the group, I'm not right. I'm going to die soon. See, he said this. Yeah. One place I get my tough love from is my Uncle B. So he would just savagely say things. And this is like something he taught me. So he's walking around like, yeah, you're all laughing now. If we had like given him a hard time in the studio or someone's turning up late. He's like, it's all right, I'll be dead soon. And then you're going to really find out what it's like out there on your own. And he kept saying it. And we'd be like, B, stop saying that, man. Don't say that. So bad. Shut up. Stop being stupid.

53:28and then we did our first show where we actually saw that we had a fan base it was the first show we ever did it was in a place called red hill and it was a sellout 2000 capacity and we hadn't started gigging since releasing the last few channel you videos okay so it was like our first show we'd done our first show sold out 2000 and then there were just 2000 kids screaming word for word all our lyrics at the top of their lungs and we just looked at each other and was like we've done it and B's there the back of the room like they've done it there we go and he said afterwards I was in always driving around in this green van I was gonna say little green van it was a little I can't help it um we were driving around in this green van and he was like that's it I've done it.

54:24I'm ready to go now. B, stop saying that. No, I'm done. That's it. This is what I was here to do. I'm ready to go. And then he died because the next day or the next, within the next two days. I have never experienced a feeling like it to this day. I passed out. Like I just fainted. And so something took over and then I remember waking up. And as soon as I woke up, the first person, it was like, oh my God, be sad. And then my head went, dappy. That was just all that went into my mind. And I was like, and I was looking around the room until my eyes found him. And then I just, oh my God. And I was just crying and screaming, crying, just looking at him.

55:15because it was just the heartbreak for him and knowing how much he was going to now suffer and the way his life had changed, it was just heartbreaking, gut-wrenching and I was just looking at him and screaming and, like, when my arms reached out to him, just screaming and he was just shocked, just completely... you could say lifeless almost, didn't know where to look. And then eventually he was like, just, can I come to yours? Like, I just want to get rid of everyone and come to yours. And that day he just came back to my house, a house that he hadn't been back to in, like, over two years. He hadn't seen my mum, he hadn't seen anyone.

56:03I always go to his house or I see him at the studio. And he just wanted to go back to my house in the room that, you know, we grew up in having sleepovers and we just sat in my bedroom in silence for like two hours and didn't move we didn't speak we just sat side by side in silence that's such a testament to how safe he felt with you yeah you know how did you all stay together after that oh after that it was like be died for this shit this is it now we're going to take this to the next level We did a gig the next day. Did you? Yeah. There was no messing about now. We cried on stage, but we did it.

56:47It was like, now it's do or die. So you were moving forward as a testament to B's life. First album, Uncle B. Yeah. What do you think Uncle B would say after seeing what End Ups has done? After that last haul, he's laughing his frigging head off. He's out there. He's the kind of person, like after that show, I told you, motherfuckers. That's his energy. He would just sit and laugh. That amount of something fantastic happens, he's just like, he's just out there pissing his sides. Yeah. I think when it comes to these, you know, I think the brilliant managers is that they have to see something that not only the world doesn't see, but you as the artist that you don't see.

57:43Yeah. He believed in us more than us. Yes. Like incredible. He was right. Yeah. I'm looking here is I see that it's two platinum certified albums, two certified gold albums, five mobile awards. But perhaps with this last one that you just talked about. No, I tell you what it is. So the one album, the first album that went platinum went double platinum. So it's two sets of platinum. And then the next one went platinum. And then the greatest hits is also platinum. So that's why it's four times platinum. There you go. There you go. All right. Done. Done and done. Done and done. Done and done. I'm not over you with that.

58:21I'm not over you with that. You're like, yeah, Paul, that's what's on my wall. Yeah, I know. It's up there. I've got a whole disc looking at me every day. I look at it every day. All right. So now let's look at this time, okay, because you go from like obscurity to you're a part of this phenomenally well-selling group. All right. So that's really your stardom. Yeah. And fame comes with that. But even prior to getting to that, you've gone through all this stuff. Yeah. And all this stuff, I would imagine, has an impact on your mental health. What was the impact that your childhood had on your mental health?

59:01I began self-harming. I would cut myself a lot. Just on my arms, I would use scissors or a knife or a couple of times a razor blade. And I would cut myself. I would cry every night. Very depressed. very very depressed child and I wouldn't find joy in anything many things just a sad sad child okay this is something that I mean let's so you would cut yourself and what was the intention of cutting yourself? Um... I want to say I was feeling all this pain inside and for me this pain felt excruciating but it was all trapped in my mind and I couldn't release this pain and I couldn't even touch it's all this pain and I'm not to touch it's all this pain So something that felt real and also a pain that took away from the pain.

1:00:27From the pain. And then after you cut yourself, would you want anyone to see the cut? No. No. No. I would wear long sleeves. How many years did that continue for? I want to say that was on and off. I'd have periods where it'd be worse than other times from the age of maybe 12 or 13 up to 17. Okay. I also had compulsive skin picking disorder. So I would also, anything I could find in my skin, in my face mostly, body, I would take tweezers, I would take needles and I would squeeze and squeeze and squeeze most of the time at nothing. but it was some kind of, it's a compulsive disorder, I guess. So I have that.

1:01:23I still suffer with it to this day, but I have it a lot more under control than what I used to. Okay. So my God, I mean, going back to the 14, when did you start at N-dubs? How old were you? 11. 11. Well, licorinsus. The licorinsus. Yeah, there you go, at 11. So 12, 13, 14. Yeah. You know, you're on this graft with the group, right? Still haven't found stardom. You are dealing with being the carer for your mother. You are dealing with these relationships. You know, you've gone through these very challenging relationships. And it seems like a lot of that is manifesting in your mental health state.

1:02:07But yet you still had faith. I did. I did have faith. Where do you think you'd be without the faith? God, finished. I would have fully topped myself years ago out of there. It was the faith. And the faith is the fire, 100%. I could see it. Yeah, literally. I could see it. This is a part of your story that I wasn't aware of. Yeah. But now, because what I often, I mean, we haven't even gotten to, I think. Yeah. We haven't even scratched. We haven't even started. I mean, we haven't even started, Talisa. I mean, but you think, I always wondered, what was it that got you through? You know, there's so many of us, we all have a North Star.

1:02:52And now I understand it was your faith. It was my faith. You know, so when you think about N-Dubs, okay, so N-Dubs, and I said, I feel like N-Dubs was undervalued. Can we talk about class? Mm-hmm. Go for it. Do you believe that the prevalence of class and the perception of class in the UK had any impact on how people perceived end-ups? And every impact. It was what dominated the press. And at the time, when it came to the fame side of Bar Success, that's all there is, is the press. But, you know, it's just a strange time back then. It was different. It was very this, you know, they'd have TV shows where like, like Kevin and Perry go large.

1:03:50It was like chab culture and kind of ripping the crap out and the allergies and things like this. Yeah, yeah. It was a very different time. But I guess, yeah, in 100 % in so many ways, the line was crossed in many ways. But at that time, there was no line. There was no line? No. How was it crossed? What are some examples of what was being said and done? The experiences now, weirdly, I had to do this the other day, dealing with a phone hacking case, and I had to sit and look through press stories, and they'd ask me about N-Dub stories, and I said, my mind is so dominated by trial, the trial, that I can barely remember any other press.

1:04:40So it's like, if you ask me now at the top of my head about an N-Dub story, I'm like, because there's been so many, So the ones that dominate my mind are like the trial, the tape, things like that rather than the actual end dubs. It's hard for me to even pinpoint, but I know that there were. You know what I mean? So with end dubs, what I've – all right, so here's what the nerd in me did. Okay. I looked at album sales, right? And I looked at things like views, total views on like YouTube, right? Yeah. And I looked at it in comparison to other groups. And I'm not going to name names on other groups, but other groups that were out during that time.

1:05:22And then what I did is I put it all into ChatGPT. Oh, wow. I'm fascinated by you, nerd. Oh, I'm so with you. This is such a me thing to do. You should do this. You should do this on your free time. Okay, I love this. I put it in the chat GPT and I said, okay, now tell me what the sentiment was from press articles on these groups. And you know who were literally what chat GPT came back was like, and it was completely undervalued. Here's the reason why. Wow. And it was specifically related to this perception around class. Right. Not wrong. And I think being the American without living in the UK, it was so hard for me to understand class.

1:06:08Because all over the world we have class. But in the US, I feel like it is predominantly based on wealth. So you make some money, you're upper class. Right, got you. No matter what, no matter how you sound, no matter how you dress, no matter what you do, you have some money in your pocket, you're upper class. Whereas here it's cultures. it's all culture culture culture 100 and this you could see how this begins to not begins how this impacts the perception yeah so so so you're you're in agreement yeah 100 100 100 100 musically especially like we were talking about before very musically undervalued just because you're hearing as rap you know which as well rap wasn't taken as seriously back then but the music the beats that we were singing and rapping over as well yes the production yes you can break down an end dubs record like you go to someone that does mastering and people that do mastering and mixes have said this they're like man you ain't never heard a record like an end does record you break that down the amount of layers and stuff that they've got going on in there is wild you know You can have 52 different vocal tracks, you know.

1:07:24Yeah. Just people are bamboozled when they open it up. Like, you've got what going on in this song? Yeah. Faser, was he predominantly the producer? He was the producer. He still is. Genius. Genius. The man's genius. Genius level. Yeah. Do you think he gets his dues, his respect? No, 100 % not. But I think it's just not evident enough. No one thinks as much about the beats, how important the song is that you're singing over. And some people like music, but they're not musical. Do you know what I mean? You know, everyone likes music. Doesn't make them necessarily a real music man or a music woman.

1:08:00I hear you. So not everyone really respects music in the same way as others. Fair. So that's why I think Faser doesn't get as much credit as he is due, as the genius that he is. Yeah. So we're looking at all these N-dubs headlines, right? And a lot of them from the press are negative, right? And a lot of them are talking about lifestyle, et cetera. A lot of them all say bullshit. Yeah. Facts. Yeah, facts. So from N-dubs, it feels like the next big career jump for you was X Factor. Yeah. Okay. Which was just, you know, and I think for anyone looking at television today, I think you have to understand what X Factor was as a project at that point.

1:08:49Because what year is this? 2012 2012 so this is I mean the numbers must have been ridiculous in terms of the viewership I think it was like 16 million 16 million like no one's getting numbers like that no today yeah how because I always hear you talk about this you manifested that yeah I manifest a lot of stuff yeah you manifested that so you manifest that day one you walk in what's your what are you thinking what are you feeling day one on x factor crap now i've got to do this now i actually have to do it i manifested it but i just want the job i'm not thinking about how i'm going to do the job i never thought about how what would I bring to the table outside of?

1:09:48I'm thinking face value, me as a judge. I know how to talk the talk. I mean, I know how to jump in front of a camera and do the whole entertainment thing. I knew I would be good TV value, but then when I actually became a judge, then I'm like, there's way more to this, and now I'm responsible for people and individuals, and this is a bigger responsibility. How am I really going to do this? It's not what you see on camera. Right. The stuff that goes down behind the scenes. Right. And now I was like, crap, now I've got to really do this. I think they also thought I may, because I wanted the job.

1:10:25So I talked the talk to get the job. And I think they maybe thought I was going to be even more fierier than I was. And then they found that I was actually quite a softie in many ways when I got up there. So even they had to switch their narrative as they were filming as a judge. because they kind of had an expectation of one thing and then were like, oh, so then we're going to switch it this way. But did you find yourself feeling like you had to almost present a character? A hundred percent. Yeah, okay. Well, thank you for saying that. Yeah. It's like the Japanese say we have the three faces.

1:10:59We have the one that we show the world, we have the one that we show our immediate circle, and then we have the one that we show ourself. And though I have always been a very authentic individual, I always keep it real. But still, when you're 22 on a TV show like that, of course, there's a level of that third face, you know, and you're not going to be 100 % yourself. But it's not that you're not being yourself. You're being a version of yourself in that situation. Yes. Yes. And how do you think that that version of you was received? I think I felt like at first I had a lot of haters, but what I saw more was the love at first.

1:11:43Not initially when I first got the job. I mean, as I was warmed in on the show. When I first got the job, it was just pure hatred. She doesn't deserve this. She shouldn't be there. You know, what is this? It's like an abomination, me becoming a judge. but then as time went on I felt a lot of love from individuals and I'd always, you know, my life was never easy so being Marmite wasn't too much for me it's like 50 % of people love me, 50 % of people hate me it is what it is, I'm still here, I'm still getting paid I'm good, you know, I can deal with that Yeah. And that's how it was at first. All right.

1:12:33What about the whole the folks who didn't like you? Right. Yeah. How much because none of those folks knew you. Yeah. So it seems like what they are not liking is what the perception of you. Yes. But they're not liking you. It's the perception of you. Yeah. You know. But I would imagine at that age, too, you can't disconnect those two. So you're feeling like you're not being liked. Yeah. It was very hard as well going from being in N-dubs where with these kind of, you know, characters that grew up in Camden and we're super edgy, super raw. A bit ghetto. Do you know what I mean? We were ghetto, keeping it real in the things that we would talk about and the way we were and the way we speak.

1:13:19and then I have to switch to commercial television where it's like, hey, hi guys. You know the drill. Hey, how are you today? Love that. Amazing. So you have this other Talisa that goes up. It's like, yeah, you're good, bro. Hi guys, today. You know, so there's the two sides. But this is where, speaking about my childhood, I had the two, I'd witnessed the two walks of life which enabled me to switch in a room full of bigwigs. and turn on the charm, also go back to Camden and fit right in. Yeah. Can I say, this is what I hate about television right now. Exactly the same. It's the contrived energy.

1:14:00It grates my soul. It grates my soul as well. Right. I'm glad we agree on that. It's like a cheese grater on my soul. This is the feat. It's like nails going down a chalkboard. Yes. Yes. It's too much. I'm hoping for the day. By the way, this is what I love so much about podcasting. Yeah. I was just having this conversation before I came here saying that I love podcasts. It's bringing realness to the world. It's bringing authenticity. This is some kind of difference because I get to speak truth. I get to promote authenticity. This makes it worth it. Yes. And you were not edited to look a certain way, to say a certain thing.

1:14:39I said that and that's how it came out. And that's what was said. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. I'm with you. And I can imagine. Changing the game. Ten years ago, like ten years ago, it's even harder. It's an even tighter edit around who you are. And there's more of a, okay, this is who we want Talisa to be. Now, you don't have to answer this one. I mean, you don't have to answer any of these. It is what it is. But I'm curious is having been on many different shows myself with different cast members, right? But, you know, if you have a supportive group, it makes a much, it's a much different scenario than a non-supportive group.

1:15:20Right. Do you feel like you were supported by your fellow judges, I'll say cast at X Factor? No, only Louis. Okay. Yeah, Louis I felt very supported by. Though Nicole was quite supportive, actually. when I was on the year of Nicole, she was sweet, but she was also trying to deal with her own. It's a lot being on that show, you know, she's trying to deal with her own dramas being on the show and what the big deal it is to her. But, yeah, I'd say Louis was, like, my rock. That's why I have that love for Louis. He just really saw, like, she's a baby. She's got a little baby. Oh, look, we've got a little baby on the panel.

1:16:02I mean, you were. Yeah, I'm 22. Yeah, you were a baby. He was 22 years old. Yeah. And he saw that. And he would advise me and try and protect me as much as he could. All right. All right. Now, that I think is what, between first and second season, that this tape comes out. Yeah. All right. And that's when it all went tits up. So this is 2013. Yeah. This is the year of enlightenment. This is the year of enlightenment, you know. Yes, this is the year of enlightenment. Because you could look at, it's interesting, Some people can look at 2013 and say, this was a year of hell. But I like how you're like, no, no, no.

1:16:42I became enlightened. Yeah. So at what point do you find out that there is a sex tape? I found out all the way through year one. So even what was supposed to be the happiest time of my life, getting that job, doing what I was doing, I was being tortured by the fact of someone had told me there was this tape and he was just waiting for the right moment to release it. Can I say one thing here? This is the one part of television and perform, being an artist, that I think is most undervalued by the audience. And that is, it's not necessarily like when you have to walk out on stage and read a teleprompter.

1:17:25It's you have to walk out on stage, read a teleprompter, maybe you've had three hours of sleep. and you've just been told news that is traumatic and you still have to perform given the circumstance, that is what makes a professional versus, say, an amateur. So through season one, you're out here, you have this knowledge. Yeah, and I'm just going home crying. I was so traumatised, I went to one of the producers. She was like my kind of go-to. She was also a great support on the show. and I had to tell her. I couldn't live with it inside anymore. Then I said, listen, there's this tape and it might come out.

1:18:08What's going to happen? Am I going to lose my job on the show? Because back then the climate was, oh, this is a family show. That's happened to you. You're out. It wasn't now or you're a victim. That wasn't the narrative back then when this was happening to me. So it wasn't just I'm going to be humiliated. It's also I'm going to lose everything. because no one wants the girl with a sex date on family TV. So she said to me, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen because it won't be me that makes that decision. And she also doesn't want everyone else to know because she wants to protect me too right now.

1:18:47Right. So it was mad. Spiritually as well, I get a lot of premonitions. I dream things before they happen. And I dreamt the day the tape was going to come out. I always, when there's something big that's about to happen, I'll see you in a dream. And I was riding on a white horse with my Uncle B. Okay. And all of a sudden, the horse tripped. We both fell off. He was gone. And there was just me on the floor next to this slaughtered lamb. This is what I saw in my dream. And then I'm in bits. I'm looking at the slaughtered lamb. And then a guy who I was seeing at the time, Jack O 'Connell, his mum appears, who I've never met before.

1:19:39Okay. This woman. And she's like, come, come with me to Lisa. And she takes my hand and she brings me to a back garden where there's a barbecue and everyone's dancing and eating. and I was happy again. So the next day the tape drops. I wake up. It wasn't when I woke up. I woke up going something really bad is going to happen today because of that slaughtered lamb. And then I found out later that day the tape had dropped. I was like, there it is. And then Jack was meant to be in America filming a movie. so I wasn't even going to see him. Something went wrong with the visa. He couldn't get the visa and they sent him home.

1:20:30He came straight to my house. He took me to meet his mum for the first time where we had a barbecue and everyone was singing and dancing and eating like in the dream and they really, Jack's mum, who I'm actually really close with to this day, she's like a mother figure to me. Interesting. Them as a family really saved me during that period.

1:21:01Faith. Faith. Once again, faith. Yeah. Because if you didn't have faith, you wouldn't have had the premonition. No. And if you didn't have that, I mean, I would imagine it would have been much more awful than what it was. Of course, but because I always have these premonitions and see these kind of things, I always know that there's something more. And if I'm being shown, something's going to happen. And also at the end of it, though, you're going to be OK. It means I'm always being guided to. So even though I've had that dream, it's a catastrophe and then it happens. But I'm also like, well, at the end of the dream, something felt OK.

1:21:42So I'm going to be all right. And just constant guidance. And you were all right. Yeah. However, in the moment. Well, I was temporarily all right when I was ready to throw myself off a building. That's when I really needed them and they were there. But, of course, the long-term damage, no. No. Yeah, in that immediate moment, I was okay because of them. But when you say immediate, I know you're joking or you're not joking. As in, no, in the short period where it's its worst, in that horrific moment, when I'm thinking crazy stuff and feeling crazy stuff. I might want to do crazy stuff. He and his mother was there to get me through that.

1:22:22But then the aftermath, long term, once I'm over the immediate craziness, that was a whole other century healing from that. When you think about today, the environment around these tapes are entirely different because there was no legislation. This is 2013. right 2013 yeah so legislation no 2012 the trial was 2013 this is 2012 okay the trial was 2013 yeah so legislation to start in 2011 2012 was the tape 2013 was the trial was the trial and so legislation didn't come until 2015 yeah and then i think georgia harrison yeah uh who i recently met who's incredible yeah she's incredible who she changed even increased uh stipulations around in 2023.

1:23:13But 2012, there was nothing. No. I was the bad guy in 2012. So the press, what does the press do? To be honest, when I think about the press, I didn't, I couldn't look. I couldn't look. I went and slept on my bathroom floor. I locked myself in my bathroom with a duvet and slept on my bathroom floor. Really? Yeah, yeah. I had this thing when I was a kid, when things were bad in my house. the only room with a lock in it was my bathroom so I would go take my blanket and I would lock myself in the bathroom so as an adult now, a 22 year old I was reverting back to the same behaviour that's how traumatised I was for him that I was going into my en suite a small shower bathroom and I was curling up in a ball on the floor in a duvet and that's what I did until Jack turned up and up you get and here you are on the biggest show in the UK this was supposed to be this breakout moment for you and and and and this this this happens yeah you decided to take the perpetrator to court yeah and specifically you were suing for i was suing because he had been off the back of it doing front magazine covers saying that i had sold this tape and I had done this to promote myself.

1:24:34And the most horrific thing in my eyes that had ever happened to me, and not only was he torturing me by releasing it in the first place, but then he was trying to say that I was the one to release it and openly saying that. And that was why I went after him. Like, you are going to own what you have done to me. And you won? Yes. Okay. And he just simply admitted that it was him. that was it and that was it victory but but you know even you know you said that at that point you were the you were the uh you're the victim but yet it's the press says this is your problem this is your issue right you're you're the bad person even to this day you know we recently had uh megan barton hansen on and she was talking about uh an assault in essence it was a it was a physical assault that happened.

1:25:30And from her opinion, the perpetrator of the physical assault has had no retribution of, and I don't even know who the perpetrator is, right? But she's saying, the perpetrators had no retribution. This is a public figure. But she has had to deal with it as the victim that she's been penalized as a result of this. So at that time, I can't imagine how you were penalized for this. So how do you think your career was impacted as a result of the tape? Well, it was a strange one because I thought I would get sacked off the back of it. Some people would say, in a way, the most F can I swear on the show, in the most F'd up way possible, it made me a bigger star because of the amount of press that went with it.

1:26:25You had people like 50 Cent and Drake commenting on it. Do you know what I mean? It was something, a scandal that went so far across the board, which for me, I would have said, keep that. I don't want it if this is how I have to get it.

1:26:47but in ways I was no longer I was on the path of you know being a family friendly celebrity that could do certain things and you know be okay with certain endorsements and now I was back to the Camden girl who was just gonna have to own it it is what it is I'll be the bad guy and I really at that point that's when I just was like I'm I lost all f's given to be any version of myself for anyone but then on top of it I was an angry version of myself now and I was very very angry at all of it because this was the reason why if I wasn't this famous and I wasn't in this position and this predicament, this wouldn't be happening to me.

1:27:45I wouldn't feel what I'm feeling. And that's really where my conflict with fame and show business and the contrived energy, that's when that really started to kick in. Wow. Wow. Wow. What an incredible story. Now, by this point, I've already taken away so much from my conversation with Talisa. And it doesn't stop there because we have a whole second part to this interview, which we will be releasing in a few days' time. So make sure you subscribe to our channel and hit the notification bell to get notified for when this releases, as trust me, if you like this episode, you will not want to miss part two.

1:28:27Next time on We Need to Talk, I carry on my epic conversation with Talisa. You're once again. Have a career that you're concerned about because you have press attacking you. Still dealing with your mother. Yeah. And on top of that, you're one of the most bizarre, scary stories I ever heard. That could be a film. I was approached by a big, well-known movie media company. They flew me to Las Vegas, this class, the zines. When do you begin to find out this is not a movie role? I found out the day they dropped the story, which I was like, here we go. I literally began to fear my life. This was coordinated so tightly.

1:29:09So tightly. These people are trying to kill me. What are you planning to do? Something like that starts to happen. It felt like some Will Smith enemy in the state shit. Rarely am I speechless. Yeah, that happened. It was like... I'm a celebrity. What's that experience like for you? absolute roller coaster i was terrified like i'm one determined little bitch i don't even say anything more the question was where's talisa

1:29:40lived multiple lives i think with a knife under my bed most of my life now i know it sounds crazy quite honestly hearing that story yeah it's not

1:29:59Thank you.

From the publisher

This first episode in a two-part series explores Tulisa's inspiring journey, through a turbulent childhood with family mental health challenges, to achieving widespread fame through her career with N-Dubz and X-Factor.
This powerful conversation explores Tulisa's personal encounters with trauma and sexual assault, while highlighting her incredible resilience and self-belief, offering a path of empowerment and hope for those in similar situations.

Please be aware that this episode discusses sensitive topics, including sexual assault and self-harm.
If you or someone you know needs support, please see the charities below:
The Survivors Trust: https://g2ul0.app.link/sqvZqaAesPb
MIND: https://g2ul0.app.link/d72yzu7jJOb

Follow Tulisa Here:
Tulisa's Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/Cv7G7DkesPb

Follow me here:
https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk
https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod

Sections:
00:00 Introduction to the Series
02:22 Growing Up in Camden: A Personal Journey
05:20 Family Life in Camden: Tulisa’s Childhood Explored
07:14 The Complex Relationship Between Tulisa and Her Mother
10:34 Tulisa's Role as a Caregiver: Personal Stories
13:16 Mental Health Struggles in the Family: Tulisa's Insights
14:50 Advice to My Younger Self: Tulisa Reflects
16:47 Tulisa’s Father and Mungo Jerry: A Musical Legacy
21:35 Understanding Attachment Styles with Tulisa
25:27 First Love: Tulisa’s Early Romantic Experiences
26:58 Tulisa’s Initial Sexual Encounters: A Candid Discussion
29:09 Exploring Spirituality with Tulisa
32:22 Addressing Sexual Assault: Tulisa's Harrowing Experience
36:15 True Love in Relationships: Has Tulisa Experienced It?
39:16 Wishing for a Different First Time: Tulisa's Regrets
41:31 Adobe Express Advertisement
42:29 Tinder Advertisement
43:26 Paul’s Love for N-Dubz: A Fan’s Perspective
47:39 The Impact of Dappy on Tulisa’s Life
51:03 Coping with Uncle B’s Death: Tulisa’s Experience
55:07 Celebrating Platinum Records: Tulisa’s Achievements
57:47 Tulisa Discusses Her History with Self-Harm
01:01:54 Class and Music: How It Shaped N-Dubz's Reception
01:08:30 Starting on X-Factor: Tulisa's Initial Impressions
01:12:36 Reality TV Exposed: The Fakeness Behind the Scenes
01:14:12 Support Among X-Factor Judges: Tulisa’s Experience
01:16:42 The Controversial 'Tape' Incident: Tulisa's Story
01:27:57 Wrapping Up: Final Thoughts
01:28:26 Teaser for Episode 2: What's Next?

Sponsored by:
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Tulisa Exclusive: I Say When It's OVER! I'm Tired Of The Lies. I Am Ready To Share My Story - PART 1

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