Best of 2025: Jessica N. Turner on Rising from Grief and Disappointment

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0:25Amy Wilson:While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Fresh Take. From what fresh hell laughing in the face of motherhood, this is Margaret. And this is Amy. Today, we are very happy to welcome back Jessica N. Turner. She is a content creator and tastemaker for busy moms looking for hacks to live life with more intention and less stress. That sounds like all of us. That's me. She's here today to tell us about her new book, I Thought It Would Be Better Than This, Rise From Disappointment, regain control, and rebuild a life you love. Welcome, Jessica.

1:04Thanks so much for having me back, y 'all. So you have an incredible story that brought you to this moment. And this book, it's more about what happens next, right, than the moment. But will you just share with our listeners a little bit about the life circumstances that brought you to write this book? Yeah. So in 2019, my husband came out to me. He first told me he was bi. Then after six months of going through marriage counseling and individual therapy for both of us, he told me that he was gay. And that was in September of 2019. We then really wrestled with could we do a mixed orientation marriage.

1:40I like to say like Matthew and I like genuinely loved each other. We had a full great marriage and all the ways that one would expect. But it was sort of like that genie was out of the bottle. So we circled the drain for a while in March of 2020, which you all might remember that month. I remember that month.

1:59Amy Wilson:Something happened. Yeah. Something happened. And about five days before that thing happened, he had found an apartment and we were going to separate. And so then pandemic happens. I'm home from my day job. We decide he's not going to move out. I'm thinking, oh, maybe things are going to turn out different. And he's going to like decide he wants to stay married and everything's going to like all of a sudden turn rosy. Well, that didn't happen. And so in June of 2020, he moved out. We announced our divorce in July of 2020. We both have really public platforms. We're both authors. And my whole life just shattered.

2:34He was all I ever knew. Being a wife and a mom was a huge, huge part of my identity. And so I like to tell people that I thought it would be better than this. It isn't a divorce book. It's not a My Husband Is Gay book. It's a book about when a great disappointment happens in our life, which is a universal life experience. What do you do? And how do you not put a period on that disappointment in your story, but put a comma and an and, and this thing happened to me and, and then what are you going to do? How are you going to hold that pen of your story of the lines you can only write for yourself and still have a beautiful life?

3:12And so I set out to do that. And so this is one part memoir and how I did that. And one part, a lot of just strategy and really thoughtful and strategic, good takeaway for people to apply to their stories, no matter what their disappointment or grief is.

3:28Amy Wilson:And we talk about that so much on the podcast. And it's kind of the purpose of the Fresh Takes is that we talk to people who have had a huge range of experience. Some of those experiences may feel really foreign to the people listening. But this community and this commonality of experience that lives at the heart of these very different experiences. And you talk a lot about that in the book, about this idea of community. And so talk a little bit about how this community that you had built, not knowing this was coming down the pike for you, how that community supported you and showed up for you during this experience.

4:10Yeah, I don't know where I would be. I certainly, I don't think would be here talking to you all, having written a book had I not had such an incredible support system of friends and family. Initially, we didn't invite our families into our story. I think something that's really important when you're going through something difficult is to recognize when you tell people that thing that they can carry that and that you aren't telling something and then you're having to carry the grief of the person you're telling that story to. So for us, telling our families, We just felt like it was actually going to be inviting more pain.

4:43And so we opened up to therapists first and then to some really close friends. And those people are who came alongside me, different friends for Matthew came alongside him and helped carry us when we felt like we couldn't walk and were such an incredible support and safe place to land during that really, really hard time. And then there was your online community, which you had also built. and how did you negotiate? How am I going to share this with my readers, my listeners? Do I have to at all? And in what way am I going to introduce this? How did that enter into your decision making? Well, for me, there was a long period of time where I couldn't talk about it online.

5:24And that was very difficult. So from that spring 2019 through summer of 2020, I couldn't talk about this at all. And then when we made the announcement of our divorce, it was really important to me that Matthew come out at the same time that we share the why and kind of we have that like truth set us free moment. And that was something that he was really apprehensive of at first for a lot of reasons. And it was very, very important to me. And so he agreed to doing that. And so initially, even after he came out, I felt like I couldn't really talk a lot about my grief and suffering in it. Because if I did that, it would somehow look like I wasn't being supportive of him, even though that was not true, right?

6:07We can hold two different things. We can be very happy about one thing and be very sad about another. And in my case, that was it. I was happy for Matthew to speak his truth, live himself fully as he was created to be. And it wrecked me in every way possible and caused a lot of trauma. And it took a while. I don't even know that I've really started using the word trauma publicly until I've talked about this book, even though that is in fact what I went through. But I slowly did start talking about first the idea of not being with my kids 24-7 and being lonely and missing things, anniversaries, random Tuesdays where I was sad.

6:49I was really careful though to rarely write in the moment. I think it's dangerous, especially when you do have a following to talk about things right in the moment when you haven't processed them, when you haven't been able to step back. And so for me, I would write things. And then sometimes those same friends that walked me through my divorce, I'd say, hey, I want to put this online. How does this land? Is there anything I should tweak about this? Do you think that this rings true with what you've heard me saying and processing? Is this going to help people? I often looked at it through the lens of, can I help other people?

7:24I think to whom much is given, much is required. And so for me, having this platform and walking through this really hard thing, I thought over and over and over again, the whole reason why I wrote the book, if my story can help somebody else be vulnerable and live a more whole, healthy, happy life, then I'm willing to do that even at the sake of something being really hard for me to say publicly.

7:46Amy Wilson:And I think that universality comes as we talk mostly to moms that that experience that we've all had, that we're struggling with a child or a child is struggling with something that feels foreign to us or that feels different than the path that we were going to be on, that to talk about it feels like, well, you don't like your kid. You don't support your kid because you're being negative somehow about this fork in a road that you did not see coming. And walking that balance is an experience that I think all moms have had also with their children, whether it's I really wanted to be a ballet mom and have my kid do ballet and they hate dancing, or it's something where my child has special needs.

8:29Amy Wilson:And I'm struggling with that. That's different than the path I thought I was going to be on. And trying to hold both of those ideas in public can be specifically challenging because you don't want to invalidate. I still love my kid. I'm glad my child is the way they are, but it's a departure for me and that's hard for me and carrying both of those things. So what was the response like from your online community? Did you run into some of that feeling of, well, wait a minute, you're not allowed to be sad about this because this is who your husband really is and that's very valid and figuring out that line.

9:05I'm grateful that I really haven't experienced that in my online community. My biggest community is on Instagram. I'm Jessica N. Turner on there. And I think because people saw the history of how much I had supported Matthew and loved him, and that was very genuine. And then in his coming out process, supporting him, we've been divorced five years now. We still will travel once or twice a year together with our kids. We still do holidays together. And so they really saw that happening in real time, that groundwork was laid, that when I did become brave enough to share some of that hard stuff, I think that there was actually a sigh of relief from a lot of people because they were like, I was waiting for this because I know I would have felt this way if this happened to me.

9:52Or they felt grateful because they could find themselves in the sorrow. It's sort of like, I'll go first. I'll say, I thought it would be better than this. That is something that we all say to ourselves in the quietness of the night and the stillness of our souls, that there's something that we all feel like, man, I thought my marriage was going to be better. I thought parenting was going to be better. I thought my finances were going to be better. I thought my career, like we all have that thing. And it's scary to say out loud. And so I think when I just started saying things out loud of, I feel really lonely on the nights that my kids aren't here or dating is really hard and I didn't expect it to feel this way, or this is what I've learned from dating apps and just starting to share those things, people could find themselves in it.

10:40And so it's thankfully been a really positive experience, though there certainly is lots of judgment in other corners of the internet about us and our family. They thankfully aren't coming to my porch in my community. It's interesting that you say in the book, I'm going to quote you here that you had 18 years as a content creator, then this happened in your life, and that you had received heartbreaking messages from thousands of women who were longing for connection, who were longing for time, longing to be cherished and loved. And they were coming to you for advice. They're coming to one another for advice.

11:12And here you are, the person who is supposed to have everything together, coming to them and saying, I see you, I understand, me too. It must have been very powerful for your audience in a way to see like this person who has a rat together is also a fellow traveler in things that are hard, because of course she is. Right. I think that's so important. There's such a thing online of these like aspirational influencers. And I don't really think of myself as one of those. And so I think that relatability that I have kind of done for 18 years played out in a different way, you know, instead of showing craft projects or my latest deal find at Target or Amazon, I was saying, and also I cried myself to sleep last night.

11:55And I think that just caused people to lean in because they were really able to see themselves. And at what point did you realize I'm going to write a book in this? How far along in your own recovery did you have to be to say, I'm going to write a book about recovery from hard times? Yeah. So book writing is my least favorite part of my job. Interestingly, I think that's uncommon for most authors. I love this part of it. I love what happens after you've written a book and having conversations and speaking opportunities and media and like all of those things that come from writing a book. It's kind of just like every other job.

12:32There's things that you don't love about your job. And so I never I'm like, oh, now is the time to write a book with every book. And this is my third one. It's really felt like a deep calling in my gut. Like I can't run from this anymore. And it's been now about three years since I first started writing. And it was actually I was at another friend's book signing and her editor was there. And she said, I've been following your story. When are you going to write a book? I think you should be writing. And my agent had just let me go very unexpectedly, my literary agent. And honestly, it was a little bit of like, well, I'll show her.

13:10Maybe I will write a book. And so I started writing that night. There's a story in the book and it is my first kiss after my divorce. And that's the very first story that I wrote for this book. And it's almost in the book verbatim of what I wrote three years ago and just started thinking about like, what are the things that I would want to tell? And then went away with a friend who is a prolific writer and she workshops with authors a lot. And she said, let's go to my beach house and let's talk about a book for you. Let's see what we've got there. And we were just sitting on the couch talking and I was saying all these different things of what I thought I could write.

13:50And I just said, you know, I just thought it would be better than this. And she was like, and there it was, there it is, there it is. And it really felt like one of those lightning moments, right to my core that I was like, okay. And then I wrote the proposal and wanted to live life. It was still another year from the time the book was signed. I really wrote the bulk of the book because I really wanted to feel fully whole and confident and competent to be able to write this. And you know this from writing books. It's a long time from when you write the book to when you record the audio book. And so I just recorded the audio book in January.

14:25When I read the whole thing aloud, I felt, oh, wow, I feel all of this is still true. And so that felt really good to me that even another year after all of that writing, I still could really stand proudly with the words that are in the book. We're talking to Jessica N. Turner, who new book is, I Thought It Would Be Better Than This. We're going to talk about what this means when we get back. It's way more fun to plan a summer vacation when you know exactly how you're going to afford it. That's why Margaret and I both love Monarch Core. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything, accounts, investments, savings goals, and spending.

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18:08And the first thing you need to do is to name your this. So tell us what that means. You know, I think that the whole idea, it sounds so basic, but when you say to yourself, I thought it would be better than this, what is your this? And get really, really specific. There's an exercise in the book related to this where I have folks draw a bike wheel, essentially, and your this is in the center. So it might be, you know, I thought my marriage was going to be better than this. But then there's lots of other things related to that. Like if we were doing marriage, it might be, I thought intimacy would be better.

18:42I thought our conversations would be better. Lots of things that are related to that major this. And the more that you can articulate what your longing is, what your ache is, what your disappointment is, the better path you're going to have to move forward toward healing. And to get specific, right? Because that's what happens in therapy. I think you start with like, I'm just not happy in my marriage. Why? well, everything my husband does is annoying. Okay, why? And you need to dig. You can't just be like, well, I don't know. Well, let's know. Let's figure it out. Because naming it, and you say the second part then is like, okay, these are your unmet expectations.

19:16Now, why did you have these expectations? You talk about, for example, you were raised with the belief that marriage is forever or else you have failed. And that that's an expectation that is optional, even though it doesn't feel that way, maybe. And you brought that to the situation. So that's what you're contributing to the disappointment. Do I have that right? Yeah, you absolutely have that right. We have to get really specific of what those unmet expectations are, how they make us feel, really dig in. And I think the book is almost like if you're having a therapy session with yourself in some ways.

19:53We actually did focus groups for the book because I really wanted to make sure that it did land as a book that was for any disappointment, not just divorce. And so I had people ranging from health issues to marriage to parenting to just a whole host of things. And they were like, I felt like I needed really big margins where I could be making these lists as I was reading and kind of considering what that would be for my story. Because when you start to dig into that, you realize, gosh, there's a lot that I've been living with that I've not unpacked. At least that was true for me and for a lot of people that I've talked to that We go through life just kind of living day to day, doing the things that are required of us in that day.

20:38And we don't often, I think, pause unless there is a major trauma to face what these things are in your body of what you want, what you wish life look like. And so I'm hoping that these types of prompts really help people to explore those things.

20:54Amy Wilson:And you talk about the idea of perfection, imperfect choices. choices. I think a lot of us have this experience as mothers, as spouses, that there is perfection or failure and that those are only two paths. But there really is a huge array in between those two choices. Yeah, I was so grateful to a friend who, when I was grappling with the idea of, do I stay in a mixed orientation marriage with a spouse who says he's gay, obviously is not attracted to me or keep my family unit intact and do the thing that I feel like society expects us to do. And I think that the optics of Matthews in my marriage was that we kind of had the perfect marriage and great careers and supporting one another and all of these things.

21:40But that felt hard and not really what either of us wanted, right? Or do we get divorced and then like, I don't have my kids 100 % of the time and my kids have parents living in two different houses. And what is that going to look like? So much of it for me was around my kids, even more than just being alone. But also, I love being married. I love having a partner. I'm going to have to start to date again. And that feels really scary. And what if I never find a partner? All of those things. Neither of those paths sounded great to me. Listening to them, they probably don't sound great to you either, right?

22:11They were very imperfect choices. And my friend was like, sometimes, Jess, you just have to make the best imperfect choice. And that very simple statement really transformed my healing. It was like, none of these things are going to be good. What one feels like the best option to do? And it's like a choose your own adventure where you only know kind of your next couple steps. You don't know what's going to be around the bend of either of those things. And now looking back, I'm so thankful we got divorced. Matthew is so much healthier and happier. I'm so much happier. I feel like there's abundance that I've experienced in my life that I don't think I would have experienced if I had stayed married.

22:52I'm so much more aware of myself in ways that I never would have been if I had stayed married, I don't think. And though this isn't in the book, after I finished the book, I met an incredible partner and have been dating him for almost a year now. And that has just transformed so many things for me in my life that I'm so glad I made that imperfect choice of getting divorced. And I think all of those imperfect choices led to me being a better mom, a better creator, and frankly, a better human being walking around in the world. So yeah, looking at life through, okay, what's the best imperfect choice I can make right now, instead of what's the best perfect choice I can make is really freeing.

23:33And bringing that horizon way closer to you. You also talk about, I forget if it was a therapist or a friend, a kind listener who said back to you, you don't have to worry about that yet. So don't worry about it. Here are the things you don't have to worry about yet. We're going to put them over here. We're just going to look at what's the next and perfect choice. I love you saying like bringing that horizon closer like that's so true and yes I was like okay well if we get divorced well what is it going to look like if I get married in five years she was like just like we don't have to worry about that right now let's just talk about like what do you need today as you sit with the idea of we're probably getting divorced what do you need right now and staying really really present I think that's the most consistent advice I've given to people walking through divorce or any hard situation is what do you need today?