In short
Whether and how moms should leave town (overnight or longer) and what to do about logistics, safety, guilt, and kids’ separation anxiety.
Guests
Amy and Margaret Ables (hosts of What Fresh Hell? Laughing in the Face of Motherhood). No outside guests appear in the transcript.
Guest backgrounds (from episode context)
Amy and Margaret are parenting educators/experienced caregivers who discuss age-based attachment, caregiving handoffs, and managing anxiety. One contributor mentioned is Michelle, a survival swimming lesson teacher (not a guest).
Key claims
Leaving can be “a strong yes,” especially for building kids’ confidence and other caregivers’ competence. Safety improves with trusted exposure to multiple caregivers (not “never out of the nest”). The “default parent” may need less rigid, shorter instructions than a 10-page binder if safety-critical items are covered.
Notable examples
A myth about waiting 30 minutes after swimming (Michelle’s lesson: kids under six should avoid lessons if they haven’t eaten 1–2 hours; watch for swallowed air/vagus nerve risks). Rituals like “wake-ups/sleeps” and blanket kisses. A story where FaceTime timing worsened a child’s day. A “mom leaves” comparison: kids may behave better with grandparents because mom is their safe space.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONavigating Mom's Absence
0:00 to 0:22
Discussion on the implications of mom leaving town and managing responsibilities.
“And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds.”
Navigating Mom's Absence
0:56 to 1:54
Discussion on the implications of mom leaving town and managing responsibilities.
“Your mom and brother-in-law leaves the place completely immaculate.”
Mailbag Insight: Swim Myth
1:56 to 4:19
A mailbag discussion about the myth of waiting to swim after eating.
“But before we get to that, Amy, we have a mailbag.”
Preparing for Mom's Trip
4:21 to 6:24
Tips on how to prepare when mom needs to leave town and managing logistics.
“And so I'm not leaving them unsupervised overnight.”
Thesis Statement: Should Mom Go Away?
6:26 to 11:42
Exploration of the benefits of moms taking time away from their children.
“I just was working and my sister-in-law and my brother were staying here.”
Building Trust Through Exposure
11:44 to 14:01
Discussion on the importance of children being exposed to different caregivers.
“you won't let your mom who lives half a mile away stay overnight with your kid?”
The Nest Metaphor
14:01 to 14:20
Discussing the implications of leaving town and its impact on parenting.
“Or letting you fly from the nest, right?”
Mom's Needs Matter
14:21 to 14:44
Emphasizing the importance of acknowledging moms' needs alongside family responsibilities.
“I have a sort of another thing I want to sort of put down as like a sort of thesis for what we're talking about here.”
Mom's Needs Matter
14:45 to 15:39
Emphasizing the importance of acknowledging moms' needs alongside family responsibilities.
“Rula provides in-network covered mental health care for most major insurance plans.”
When Mom Leaves Town
18:26 to 18:58
Exploring the dynamics when the primary caregiver steps away.
“And of course, it's like, well, we're not talking about when dad leaves town.”
Show all 18 chapters
The 10-Page Document
18:59 to 20:56
Discussing the logistics and emotional weight of preparing for a parent's absence.
“is different when I traveled than when my spouse traveled that isn't necessarily good or bad it's true.”
Lessons from Absence
20:57 to 23:04
Reflecting on how children behave differently when their primary caregiver is away.
“And she was checking on her kids, you know, in the kitchen at a time when they were supposed to be up and they were in the kitchen and the other parent wasn't up.”
Building Trust and Relationships
23:05 to 27:19
The importance of trusting partners with parenting duties and its positive effects.
“And I also babysat for my niece and nephew, I guess, last summer.”
Preparing Kids for Absence
27:20 to 28:04
Advice on how to prepare children emotionally for a parent's temporary absence.
“And I think the idea, I think when my kids were littler and I wasn't leaving the house, it was mommy can, only mommy can do it.”
Prepping Kids for Separation
28:04 to 30:40
Learn techniques for preparing children emotionally for a parent's absence.
“that other people can catch what you drop is very mentally healthy, both for you and for your kids.”
Managing Emotions During Absence
33:23 to 42:01
Explore strategies for managing both children's and parents' emotions during separation.
“I have a tip that I know from having hosted, you know, kids in my house for the first their first time away from home staying with us for an extended period of time that I learned the hard way.”
Navigating Absence: The Benefits for Kids
42:01 to 45:40
Learn how occasional absence can foster independence in children.
“You also have to remember that person is not you.”
Navigating Absence: The Benefits for Kids
45:44 to 46:49
Learn how occasional absence can foster independence in children.
“Even if you don't go on YouTube that often, next time you're on there, search for the podcast, subscribe to our channel.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Heidi Raykeil:Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc. Be like with every breath you take, remember your mommy loves you. What fresh hell. Laughing in the face of motherhood. If he wants to eat 30 ice cream sandwiches a day, I'm not there to control it.
0:44With Margaret Ables and Amy Wilson.
0:46Heidi Raykeil:Let your kids experience a slightly different way of doing things than if they miss you a little bit. Awesome. A podcast that solves today's parenting dilemmas. So you don't have to. Your mom and brother-in-law leaves the place completely immaculate.
1:07Heidi Raykeil:Hey, everybody. Welcome to What Fresh Hell? Laughing in the Face of Motherhood, this is Amy. And this is Margaret. And today we're talking about when mom leaves town. Yes, please. Yes. Yes. But it's easy for us. I mean, we're on the side where it's like, see you guys later. Don't forget to take the garbage out. It doesn't require the front work that it used to. I feel like I'm not quite as far down that road as you are. Yes. But I'm closing in on you. I'm closing in on you. I still have to get a babysitter. It's better than the 10-page, like, single-spaced document that required. Believe me, it's much, much better.
1:42Heidi Raykeil:Right. Well, we'll talk about that today and, like, how much you need to do and how much, you know, how much you can let go and the opportunity that it might provide you to let things be done differently. and let everybody see just how much you do when you are around. Also extremely important. But before we get to that, Amy, we have a mailbag. This is like a news you can use mailbag. Oh, yes. Wait a minute. Time for mailbag. Wait, wait, yeah, yeah, yeah. Check the mailbag. This is news you can use. I mean, don't say you didn't learn anything from this podcast. This is from Michelle in our Facebook group.
2:17We were talking about the myth, quote unquote. Well, we thought it was a myth, Amy, of having to wait 30 minutes after you swim.
2:24Heidi Raykeil:Right. And we were so confused because we're like, that doesn't seem good for anybody that the kids can't go back in the water. Why do we all wait half an hour? And who was that really serving? We couldn't figure it out. Right. And it seems like it must be just a dumb thing, we believe. But instead, Michelle, who is a survival swimming lesson teacher, says that they require kids who have not eaten for at least an hour, preferably two before the lesson, because little kids who are still learning breath control can easily end up swallowing air as they're going in and out of the water over and over.
2:59When she's teaching, takes frequent breaks to give them a chance to burp. And also she looks carefully for signs of abdominal distention because all that air in their bellies can make them vomit or even pass out if it gets bad enough to put pressure on their vagus nerve. And passing out while swimming, super dangerous. This is what she's learned teaching young kids ages zero to six. It's probably less applicable for older kids and adults who have more bodily awareness. News you can use.
3:35Heidi Raykeil:I am really surprised. So okay, so once they're six, you can probably just let them swim again, I'm hearing, but I didn't know there was any reason. Well, I don't know if that's what Michelle is saying. She's saying she works with kids under six, but clearly there is a reason for this, which is that kids, when they're going in and out of the water, are gulping air, and it could make them sick and or possibly pass out. I'm laughing at the idea of Michelle teaching like, you know, a grown up to swim and watching your belly carefully for signs of abdominal distention. Would you like to burp? Margaret, I think you need to take a burp break.
4:09Heidi Raykeil:You need to burp before we continue. Yes, I guess in general, as you get older, like you just have more control over this. And so it's probably not as dangerous. But that's news you can use for Michelle. Thank you so much. Now, Amy, let us turn to our topic. Mom goes away. And I think you're right. So my youngest is 12. Oldest is 15. And so I'm not leaving them unsupervised overnight. But we also live in a we used to live in a house that had no neighbors. We now have the house next door was being constructed or whatever under renovations. Now we have neighbors. So but they're like, I would say maybe a football field from front door to front door.
4:51You know, they're not like right up against us neighbors. And I do think that matters a little bit in terms of like, especially when they were little, we didn't have neighbors and And it was about we have a long driveway. And so I really did feel like if something bad happened, I mean, they could call 911. But there wasn't like run next door and get Miss Smith and show her the burn on your hand and see if you should call, you know, 911. It just kind of felt like they were very much alone. And so I was wary of leaving them alone. So that was kind of the issue for me. And I think now if I go, I just am planning an overnight where I'm like, I think I got to still get someone to stay with them.
5:29Yeah. But when they were little, if I left, I had the binder of documents, right? Like when they were, when I had a zero, two and three year old, I had an encyclopedia set that went that I had to prepare every time I went out of the house.
5:44Heidi Raykeil:This is very interesting to me because I think like if you were writing the script for this episode, you would say an Amy's like never, you know, go away for 18 hours without leaving at least 18 pages of instructions. And you're like, it's fine. But when your kids are a certain age or they have special needs or both, I think we can sort of like, oh, here she goes again, leaving instructions. But there do need to be instructions. And the question is, how can you balance? I think that the kids need to have things a certain way and school starts at 815. And don't forget the EpiPen with letting things that don't matter go a slightly different way because you're not around and maybe that's okay.
6:21Yeah, for sure. I think it's like logistics need to be written down. And the temperature at which this person likes their food cooked probably can come and go a little bit. I just was working and my sister-in-law and my brother were staying here. And I still ended up writing out almost two pages, but it was, you know, this one gets picked up here, then drop there. While you're doing that, grab this for dinner before you pick up this one. A lot of it is logistics. And that, I mean, obviously a person has to know where to get them.
6:55Heidi Raykeil:And when they're little, it's the logistics of when he says green, that means green cup with, you know, half full with apple juice and half full with water. And then he wants to sit in his chair and watch Bluey. Like there's a lot. It carries a lot of water, that one utterance. And again, maybe maybe he doesn't get what he wants for a change when he says Gween, but you don't want a kid throwing a tantrum because nobody understands him either. Yes. And I do think that this takes us to our thesis statement. Should mom go away? Okay. Answer for me. Strong yes. Strong yes. So a couple years ago, this is probably five, 10 years ago, definitely before the pandemic.
7:32Heidi Raykeil:I have a friend from college, and we brought her to New York for the weekend. And roommates in college hadn't seen each other in a while, we get together for the weekend. And she tells us that she has never been away from her kids overnight before on the trip, which shocked us because at the time she had two kids in high school and one kid in college. And she had never taken a vacation away from her household overnight before leaving them behind. I think that's the majority of people I know. Just don't leave them. I was always really surprised in talking to friends of mine. We grew up like this.
8:06My parents vacationed, and they went on travel trips, and they did a bunch of stuff away from home. And we had Aunt Suze. Aunt Suze stayed with us generally when they were away. And Grandma, my grandma, and Aunt Suze sometimes were there tag teaming or coming in and out or whatever, staying with us different times. but my parents traveled all the time and we would just stay home with grandma or aunt so's
8:31Heidi Raykeil:yeah and then i guess that's it it's supposing when i think of the times that i've left my kids i've traveled overnight with my kids plenty but when my kids were younger at least one we had four able-bodied grandparents who didn't live that far away and one set of two or the other set of two could come be with them and that's something that you can really take for granted when you have it and not understand how crucial that is to be able to leave your kids behind with one somebody who loves them like you do, but two, you're somebody who just feels very comfortable. The comfort level is there. If you don't live near parents or sisters or aunts or uncles or people who can take care of the kids overnight, then it does become a lot more complicated.
9:07Heidi Raykeil:Who do you trust and how do they start from zero understanding what your kids need? For sure. And if you have a kid with special needs or even just high needs for whatever reason, I think even more complicated sometimes. But I have on occasion now often, especially if I'm only away for one night, I will do the farm out system where like I just grab a friend and every three kids, they all find a friend to stay at for the night. And we were just doing something logistically where one of the kids, it didn't make he had to go somewhere and we were going to be away and we wanted to leave and he was going to be here.
9:44And I just called a friend and said, you know, can he stay with you for three or four nights? No problem. I mean, they're early teenagers now. So it's they're not it's not like dropping a baby at someone's house. You know, it's like, hey, can you throw on three extra chicken fingers a night? And I take wayward kids all the time. But I think the thesis statement of going away from your kids, I think is important, because I have a big family. And I think there's so much value in my kids feeling like, you are safe and cared for by any one of these 20 people. Basically, my sister, Kate, who is our common link, Amy and I just took when my son was, I don't know, eight or nine, they're both wildlife enthusiasts.
10:33And they were talking about my son was absolutely obsessed with the platypus. And she said, probably half joking, if you're still this into platypuses, when you're 13, I will take you to Australia to see one in person. And they just spent 14 days together in Australia because she was a woman of her word. Well, because a year ago, he was like, I'm going to Australia this year. We were like, oh, I guess we better start saving money. So we had to wait almost 18 months so that we could actually make it happen. And I do think it's comfort level. It's many things that we talk about. I feel like I'm like, oh, yeah, I relate to that.
11:08I think it's just so in me to have kids here, there and everywhere and be away from my kids so often that the anxiety around this is a little bit hard for me to relate to, I would say.
11:20Heidi Raykeil:Right. I would agree with you completely that the gift of confidence that you're giving your child that they're going to be okay if somebody else is making their pasta tonight besides you, their primary caregiver, is worth it. It's not just okay for them to experience that, and feel the safety of other adults who love them. If that's something you have, right? Like, again, I want to be like, you won't let your mom who lives half a mile away stay overnight with your kid? Like, what's the matter with you? Well, maybe your mom doesn't live half a mile away. Maybe your whole family has been deployed somewhere completely unfamiliar and this isn't in the cards for you right now.
11:56Heidi Raykeil:So we're not saying like, get over it, meet some nice stranger and then, you know, go to the Bahamas for a week. And also like, maybe your mom was a horrible parent or is toxic in ways that like, you don't want your kids actually. I mean, we also have the default of like having awesome moms. So I mean, and great mothers in law in my case. And so I, I mean, I would stick my kids with I have one of my kids is traveling with friends of his down to Texas, where my husband's family is from. And you know, my sister in law will pick them up, then they'll spend a night at my brother in laws, then they'll go to this in laws.
12:32And I mean, one of those two of those kids are even related to any of those people, but that we just have those like deep, awesome family ties where, you know, we just have a tremendous amount of trust for people because we know them. But I do think that coming up in a healthy family, like trust is a default that maybe it's not as easy to default to for some people.
12:55Heidi Raykeil:But if this is available to you, then this experience is worth having, of course, for you before your kids too. I think another thing, and people may disagree with me, I think the safety issue, you actually help your children's safety the more people they're exposed to. Now, this is a little bit not true. So like a million strangers in and out of the house, I think can be dangerous for kids or like, hey, any port in a storm, like, let me just drop them off. You know, I met this babysitter walking down the street, maybe not, although I did meet a very good babysitter once walking down the street.
13:29But I think the equation of keeping kids really close for their own safety can sometimes backfire in that I think that the confidence your kids get from being in a range of situations makes them feel more comfortable if something doesn't feel right in a situation for them to speak about. So I think sometimes we define the safety as like never letting them kind of out of the nest keeps them safe. But I think in the long term, letting them fly from the nest often keeps them safer. Agree or disagree, Amy? Or letting you fly from the nest, right?
14:04Heidi Raykeil:Because really, this is not this is about us leaving town and then yeah, we're leaving the nest and different people are taking over maybe the nest metaphor is not correct. But I mean, I think in general, just like trying new environments is a net positive for kids, I think. Yeah, for everybody. I think so. All right. I have a sort of another thing I want to sort of put down as like a sort of thesis for what we're talking about here. I feel like I need to say it, but I'm going to take a break, tell you what it is after this. Being a mom means putting other people's feelings and needs above your own pretty much 100 % of the time.
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18:30Heidi Raykeil:And by mom and dad here, I feel like we're using shorthand for what is really like default parent and non-default parent, right? Your mileage may vary as to who that is. and here's my thesis for this episode is I want to say like it is different when the default parent leaves town like it was a bigger deal when I left town than for my spouse who traveled a ton who still does I was the one who was home with the kids every night it was part of the agreement of our lives that my spouse traveled a lot for work and I didn't but then once in a while I did so it is different when I traveled than when my spouse traveled that isn't necessarily good or bad it's true.
19:07Heidi Raykeil:But it does mean that if you are the parent whose absence requires a 10 page document, that you can push back on what that means while you're at it. So meaning that you shouldn't have to repair the document? No, it's like, well, there shouldn't be a document that wouldn't nobody would even notice if you left like, yeah, all those things are true. And I'm so I'm saying, number one, it is different that you're leaving town if you're the one that runs the schedule and decides what's for dinner and does all the default parent invisible work deciding that we talk about all the time, right? If that is your work and it's invisible to people a lot of the time, I don't think it's a bad thing.
19:43Heidi Raykeil:And I don't think you're a bad person for thinking there needs to be a 10-page document and three people to replace what I do because nobody sees how much of it there is to do. Well, and let me say, I think very truly, if you're going away for work, you're there to concentrate on work. And if you're going away for relaxation, you're there to relax. relax and you can't work and you can't relax if you're getting calls every 10 seconds being like, why is he crying? Why is this wrong? Where are we supposed to be? Like the document makes your travel easier, right? Right. It would give me great peace of mind that you knew that the pink medicine should only take it if you put it in the milk.
20:22Heidi Raykeil:And yeah, like, and maybe they listened to you, maybe they didn't, but sometimes it matters. But then once that's done, then I do think you have to like none of this can possibly happen without me like you're right and it's about to and it's going to go down how it's going to go down but if your kid's safety if the epi pen is in the diaper bag then you do need to let those things happen without you a little bit if you see what i mean like if it's about safety you have to do it but you don't have to be like at three o 'clock every day we watch this and then we do right it's not gonna be done exactly the same Yeah.
20:55Heidi Raykeil:Notice that discomfort. I have a friend who was traveling and this was all, you know, after your kids and my kids were little, but there were like cameras in her house. Like, I think there were Nest cameras. I'm not sure what kind they were. And she was checking on her kids, you know, in the kitchen at a time when they were supposed to be up and they were in the kitchen and the other parent wasn't up. And she was like directing them like, you know, through a like a we call it a God mic in the theater. She was like talking to them with the voice of God to go get their other parent and tell them this and tell them that.
Read the full transcript
21:26Heidi Raykeil:And I thought, OK, this is kind of a missed opportunity here. I think I didn't say anything at the time because I wasn't being asked for my opinion. But I thought this is not really leaving town, so to speak, if you're watching. This is my I have a friend who has this for her dogs and will be at dinner. And she's like, get off the couch, get off the couch. She's like yelling at her dogs. Stop eating the pillow. And it's funny. They kind of look around like, wait, what? How does she know what we're doing? Right. It's an opportunity to disengage is what I'm saying that I think that we need to embrace sometimes more than our constant availability to check on each other allows.
22:01for sure and I mean we talk about this line a lot right how much it's like get over it mom you're so controlling and how much of it is listen if my kid doesn't sleep for six days I mean I have used the example that I have a kid who as a child loved ice cream who doesn't love ice cream it's great and they were being watched by someone at some point who was sort of like well there's no limits on ice cream at our house, which I'm basically fine with. It's one week of their lives. It doesn't matter. But this child ended up developing horrible stomach issues that caused a lot of sleeplessness and problems.
22:43And it's funny. In some ways, it's a very mild example. But I mean, yeah, if he wants to eat 30 ice cream sandwiches a day, I'm not there to control it. But there are reasons beyond me being uptight that makes that not a great idea. And so I guess you will learn some of the lessons on your own, you know. And I also babysat for my niece and nephew, I guess, last summer. Yeah. And I'm like, tell me everything you can, because I don't want to deal with screaming kids. Like, I don't want unhappy kids. So if it's bluey time, and I miss it and then I'm going to have a tantrum. I'd rather have a list.
23:23And I found when I used to babysit for my nieces and nephews who are now like grown, one of them just got married, that they were four under five and it was a big job. And I would find that generally, if it was total chaos in the house, I would look at the schedule and I would have missed like a nap time or a feeding time. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that does actually help me to like, know that the schedule and I've done it with other people's kids. I took, you know, kids to the water park one day and I was like, yeah, everyone's having fun. I'm not going to worry about lunch until later. And then I got a bunch of little kids onto the snack line that was now 45 minutes long and it was 1.30 instead of 11.30.
24:05And I had kids melting down in every direction. And it's like, okay, I could have saved myself if someone had given me a piece paper that was like, just feed them at 1130. It would have been better for me, you know, right.
24:17Heidi Raykeil:And then there's the flip side of this, which is you come back from being away. And you hear that they were better for grandma and grandpa or Aunt Sue's or, you know, the boy lives down the street than they are for you. The thing that is usually a huge sticking point bath time, whatever I'm making this up. There's also screaming when it's time to go in the bath, and you have to make sure you put on Bluey first and then, you know, gently walk him down the hall. None of that had to happen. And they were completely different when you weren't there. And that can happen, too. And then there's this sort of like, well, what the heck, right?
24:49Heidi Raykeil:What am I doing wrong? But they are being different for other people than they are for you, because you, their primary caregiver, are their safe space where they can collapse all the restraints, right? And so that's good news if the kid held it together a little more than they do for you sometimes. Oh, and also, when I babysat for my niece and nephew, I remember, you know, we were sending them a lot of pictures just to be like, hope you're enjoying your vacation. Look at how much fun we're having. And, you know, we're at the museum and then we're painting rocks and we did a whole, you know, arts and crafts project and we made, we got bluey stickers and we made this huge living bluey environment because I'm babysitting for one week.
25:28Like I don't treat my kids like this. I don't run camp when it's my kids. I'm like, go look at your screens. Mommy's, you know, playing Candy Crush. Like that's how I actually parent. But when I'm babysitting, it's like, okay, we don't know these kids that well. And so let's keep it real busy so that they sleep well at night. And like, we basically got up in the morning and like did a craft and made a fun meal. And then we made cookies together. Like I had the whole day planned out all day every day because I'm babysitting. So I'm not, I don't want my eyes off of them. I want them with me all day because they're not my kids.
26:00I never watch my own kids that carefully.
26:02Heidi Raykeil:That's a really good point. So if your kids are kind of on their better behavior, all of a sudden, so was the caregiver probably like, right? How many scoops of ice cream would you like now that it is a little bit of a special separate environment that isn't like usual? Anyway, if you come back to hearing how good the kids were and how they didn't need to do this stuff that you said, because it all went fine, actually, that's very, very good news. And it doesn't mean that like somehow you're doing something wrong most of the time. This is all great news that it went well. And this is the thing, you know, we travel a lot for work.
26:31I've always traveled a lot for work. And we travel a lot to see family. And then my husband and I generally tried every year to take a vacation away from our kids. And that involves some discretionary income. You know, we weren't, believe me, we weren't jetting to Cannes or something to go to Lake Como. We were like, you know, driving away to stay at a Best Western. But it still implies like, you know, having money to take vacations on some level. But I do think that going away from your kids and trusting other people with your kids, even if it's on a short term, even if it's for a night. When I'm not on the podcast, I teach at night.
27:08And so I'm often gone from like five at night till 10 at night, like after the kids are in bed. And even that I think has helped my husband's relationship with the kids because he's, you know, there are occasionally nights where I'm teaching four or five nights a week. And he had to figure it out. There wasn't another option. And I think the idea, I think when my kids were littler and I wasn't leaving the house, it was mommy can, only mommy can do it. And then as we develop more of rapport where I was doing my own thing, sometimes he was doing his own thing. Sometimes I really value how much it has fostered a relationship between like my husband and the kids.
27:51And he's learned to cook a couple of things that they really like. And I think there is such a value in leaving room for the other person to figure it out. Even if it's just like, hey, once a week, I'm off duty, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to sit outside and read my book, like whatever it is, that trusting that and seeing that other people can catch what you drop is very mentally healthy, both for you and for your kids.
28:15Heidi Raykeil:Yeah, well said. And then okay, so then let's talk about the whole part of prepping your kids, and how much you prep your kids. Of course, this is very ages and stages, we can talk about the And I think there's a balance to find, right? You don't want to get overly tweet, tweet about it and be like, with every breath you take, remember your mommy loves you. And you don't want to do that. Okay, don't do that. But don't like walk out without saying goodbye either. And so how do you find the balance about making it clear to them and tangible and not scary? And the first tip I'll give here is that my father in law, my husband's dad, always talks about how many wake ups until something or maybe doesn't anymore, but they still sit that he did.
28:56Heidi Raykeil:My sister-in-law says how many sleeps until? How many sleeps. And so, so my father-in-law would always say how many more wake ups until, you know, we go to Disney or whatever. How many more wake ups until Christmas morning? How many wake ups until mommy comes back? Or if you're saying goodbye to them, it's just two more wake ups. And then I'm going to be coming back from the airport and I'm going to send you a picture of the plane or whatever that you, that wake ups is something that's very concrete that even the, you know, even a preschooler can sort of understand what that is. And my daughter was very attached to me when she was little.
29:26Heidi Raykeil:And she had a blankie that she slept with. And I would give it kisses. Like, I'd give it a kiss for each morning and each night. So when she woke up, she could get to have a kiss from the blanket. And each night, she could have a kiss from the blanket. And it'd be six kisses if it was three days. And that was, for some kids, that would be tweet tweet. For some kids, it wouldn't make any sense. Like she clung to this, like how many kisses she had left was how long until she was going to see me. And it seemed to make her feel a lot better. So that was a ritual. I guess what I'm coming around to saying is that you need to pitch the ritual to the kid and how much they need it.
29:56Absolutely. And I think from both ends, like, I mean, I've taken care of a lot of kids. And I remember taking care of my nieces and nephews way before there was FaceTime and stuff and figuring out like what any given kid's attachment style is like I've taken care of kids where FaceTime goes horribly wrong. Like it's like the day is going fine that we FaceTime with mom and then the rest of the day is a nightmare. And for some kids, it's like, okay, we're going to FaceTime every day at four o 'clock and check in and see what mom's doing and how she's and what she's doing and if it's fun. And I think you have to figure out what works for your kid.
30:33But Amy, I think you also have to figure out what works for you. Can we talk about that when we get back?
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32:13Heidi Raykeil:And then fields all calls and texts on your behalf. Uh, wait, does Janie have ballet on Tuesdays? If you'll reference page 42 in the manual, you'll see that Janie has hip-hop on Tuesdays. And don't forget you need to drop Marcus a violin on the way. Uh, right, right, right. Does a spa treatment sound good while you're waiting for your next conference panel to start? Mom Away has got you covered. And for a small extra fee, Mom Away representatives will perform spot home inspections to make sure Grandma isn't letting the kids have cookies for breakfast and Dad isn't sending them to school without their gym shoes.
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33:23Heidi Raykeil:I have a tip that I know from having hosted, you know, kids in my house for the first their first time away from home staying with us for an extended period of time that I learned the hard way. The calls with the absent parent that they're missing need to be early in the day, not late in the day. That's a good ground rule. That's really smart. Like not within an hour of bedtime. No, because then we had the sobbing and they're falling apart that they miss their mommy. And now it's bedtime. And now it's past their bedtime that when they wake up and the whole day is ahead of them. And also, I mean, do it five or 10 minutes before your kids have to leave for school anyway, so that there's a built in end time.
33:59Heidi Raykeil:And then they're leaving. They have to leave. You have to hang up because, oh, it's time to go see Miss Becky. Bye. I hope you have a great day that they have the whole day ahead of them. And they're in charge of when the call ends. Those are good ground rules for that. Yeah. And I think the leaving can also be very, I remember once I babysat for my nephew, who's now getting a PhD. He's a grown man. But the idea was, oh, when you wake up, he was going down for a nap. Bye bye. When you wake up, Aunt Meg's going to be here. She's going to be taking care of you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he woke up and his little sleepy face was like, ah, he was kind of snuggly and snuggling with me.
34:36And then it was like, I could see in his eyes, he kind of looked at me and he looked around and he thought, I remember something about this. And it dawned on him like, oh no, it's just, and then he screamed at me, go out for like an hour while sobbing. And I was like, okay, we can go out. We can go out. And I finally got us up. It was Chicago. So I was like, let's get our boots on. Let's get our coats on. And I got us to the door and I was like, you're right. Let's go out. And then he yelled at me when we got to the door. No, you go out. And it was hilarious. I was like, wow, tough, tough kid.
35:08But sometimes, I think especially if there's family around and stuff, sometimes the leaving becomes like, let's all wave goodbye. Oh, goodbye. That's not always the best choice for every kid. And I think also you have to acknowledge that one thing we haven't really talked about is a lot of parents feel a tremendous amount of guilt leaving their kids behind. Again, not something I really relate to. I remember my bachelorette when I got married, but I was very late to getting married. All my friends had kids. And one of my friends arrived and it's like, freedom. She was like, so happy, like, pour me a margarita.
35:45Let's let it begin. And this other mom, my another friend walked in. Oh, it was so hard to leave my kids. And I, you know, I just I'm sorry, I'm a little late. I had to go back and say goodbye three times. She was so upset. My first friend was like, oh, no, there was a me shaped hole in the door running away from those children. And I think it is. I am me shaped hole in the door running away from the children. And I don't always give enough. I'm kind of dismissive sometimes of like, oh, look at you loving your kids. You're going to miss them. Like, I do think there are people for whom this is a struggle.
36:20And I do think I have trouble relating to that struggle.
36:24Heidi Raykeil:Yeah, I do, too. But it's so good. But you're gonna enjoy yourself. You're gonna have a great time that gets you're not a bad person if you're feeling a little more anxious about the separation. But then I think it is even more important that you have a ritual or a structure or something that you give the kids so that you're not, you know, you're not like displaying that anxiety, they're not picking up on it as much. And I think that depending on the trip, if I'm going, let's say, I mean, if I'm going to like Puerto Vallarta to like take the love boat for 10 days, like miss me with anything, I don't want calls or anything.
36:53But if I'm going to like take care of a sick relative or going into some difficult situation, I often find myself saying to my husband, like send me pics of the kids all the time. Like it just comforts me to know that like while I'm in a difficult situation, everybody is okay. And so I think it's smart to sit down with yourself if you are struggling with it more and say, what's making this hard? and really dial down a little bit on, is this anxiety true or not true? And if it is true, like what would help alleviate the anxiety? And so is this anxiety true or not true? My kids will forget me while I'm gone.
37:33Not true. So like that, you got to just think that's not a true thought. You have to just work with yourself on that. I'm afraid that mom is going to forget to take him to the big soccer game that's so important, then you make the schedule, you underline it, and you make a call that morning and say, just making sure that this is going to happen. And people may roll their eyes, even say like, oh, what a nut. She reminded us 60 times. But if it's about your own anxiety, that's okay. Like it's okay to feel that anxiety and do something about it.
38:01Heidi Raykeil:Mm-hmm. You know, and you're going to get the guilt from outside too. I think well-meaning loved ones can place a different value system on a mom being away than a male parent, whether or not that's necessarily totally accurate for your family and the way you do things. You know what I mean? I do think like the world thinks it's different when mom travels than when a male parent travels. And so you're not also like crazy or a bad person for feeling that pressure that this is a bigger deal because kind of the world thinks it's a bigger deal. Yeah, for sure. And like being away from your kids. And I do think maybe this is changing.
38:39I mean, I look at the way the youngs live now. And I mean, people are all have nieces who like they're working from Thailand. I mean, it just feels like people are their lives are bigger. And I have a lot of family in the military. And like there's one or the other spouse is deployed or traveling. There's a lot going on out there. And I think the expectation of like mom is just sitting and, you know, rocking a child 24 hours a day, or she's a failure. I think that's changing a little bit. But I do think that like being away from your kid, I mean, this is the classic thing of no one ever said to Obama, like, hey, are you worried that being president is going to take you away from your kids a lot?
39:21And he had really young kids when he was president, you know? Yeah. But believe me, they would say it to the female candidate, right? Like, But what about your who's going to raise your kids while you're running the country?
39:32Heidi Raykeil:Right. And then there's the coming home part where have you ever come home from a trip? And there's it's such a like a blast site at your house. Like, why did I leave? Now there's more work to do on the other side. That's the part that I think you need to do sometimes a little bit of front work for less. Not when my mom or mother-in-law just like, not you guys, you're great. No, your mom and mother-in-law leaves the place completely immaculate. Yeah, better than I left it. Some other people maybe are just like, it's that whole like ice cream whenever you want. Like, just let it all hang out. Right.
40:03And everybody's sick and bloated and tired. And there's 9000 dishes in the sink.
40:08Heidi Raykeil:Right. And the rug is stained because the dog threw up and nobody cleaned it up. And right. And then you're coming back to sort of more work. That's annoying. And I don't know how fixable that is other than getting buy in. I'm like, OK, looks like you guys had a lost weekend here and we have to kind of get it back to one. Right. let's all work together on. Let's all work together. Or maybe part of it is including that in like the exit instructions, especially if it's kind of with your spouse. Like, oh, by the way, then it's, and I will say when I, we did a whole episode about it and we'll link to it, but I did babysit for two kids last year who were like two and five.
40:49And I'll tell you what, at the end of the day, I was so tired. I could not believe it. And again, we were running like camp fun times. But the idea of doing dishes at the end of the night was horrible to me. I was so tired. And I was at my in-laws house. I was like, I feel kind of obligated to keep it clean. Like, I actually cannot have them come home to a blast site. But it might be part of it to actually explicitly say on your instructions, like, and that's when we do the dishes or in the morning, You know, so that it is kind of part of the expectation that you don't come home to an absolute disaster because that's depressing.
41:28Heidi Raykeil:Yes. And not relaxing. Although I'm sitting here, it's occurring to me that it is proof that this is all as hard as you think it is. You know what I mean? Like if you come home and everything isn't done the way you usually do it and there's a mass and the laundry's piled up, it's like, yeah, because it's a lot. It's a lot and you do it really well. And the people who also love your kids and who have also taken care of them in your absence very well, just found out how hard you work a lot of the time. or also I think there's a version of this where your house is always a little bit messy and then when you come home everything is put away and spit shined and perfect and there's a little bit of an implication of like I am actually not speaking from personal experiences has literally never happened to me but I know people it has like you come home and everything's like the laundry's all folded and everything's perfectly done and whoever's been taking care of the kids is sort of like, see, it's not so hard to keep a nice house, blah, blah, blah.
42:24You also have to remember that person is not you. They're not doing your job. They're not living there. They have a different constitutional makeup. Like there's nothing also threatening about someone making it look like they do it better than you. They just do it differently than you, which is kind of
42:38Heidi Raykeil:a different thing. Which is part of the whole point, right? Is like, let your kids experience a slightly different way of doing things. And if they miss you a little bit, awesome. And I will say, I always traveled at least one week a year without my kids. I mean, with a breast pump. So I'm talking about like babies for the entire time I have had kids. And I will say, from the future, this is something that gets so much better. I would say, by the time all your kids are in elementary school, I mean, traveling without them is not that hard. And they can express themselves. I mean, I now say to my Aunt Suze still babysits my kids.
43:19She was our babysitter. She still will come over. And I'm like, they'll tell you anything they need. They'll tell you anywhere they need to go. But I mean, that's been for 10 years now, probably, you know? No, it hasn't been because my oldest is only 12. That's probably been for five or six years solidly. I don't need a binder. I'm just like, they can speak. They can reason. You tell them that bedtime is this time. here's some lists of foods and places we like to get food from and otherwise they're going to tell you what they need and don't need and I again I emphasize that I think that for people who have anxiety around keeping them safe by never going away from them to maybe challenge that thinking because I truly believe that the more people children feel safe with the less anxiety they have because it's like, okay, you know, Aunt Kate could take care of me.
44:13Aunt Suze could take care of me. Uncle Bob could take care of me. There's all these people, you know, my sister and I basically have interchangeable children at this point. I'm like, you're staying with them. They'll stay with you. I have my daughter has a friend who we always joke. She's my bonus daughter. And my daughter is her mom's bonus daughter. I'm like, I'll come in and she's at the house. And I'm like, hey, how you doing? Like, and the same thing, like she goes over to their house in the same way. And I think it's such a net positive for your kids to have to figure out how to really survive without you from an early age.
44:48Heidi Raykeil:Absence makes the heart grow fonder, a wise person once said. And it kind of makes the constitution stronger, I think. I don't know that your kids can love you more than they do, but I think that they can feel stronger by knowing that you're not always there. It's worth it. And it does get better. Well, you know, last point on that is like the anxiety that your kid has. Actually, it isn't like, you know, a one-year-old, a two-year-old is like, where'd mommy go? Oh, well, right. And then the peak anxiety for kids is like seven, eight, nine. So again, like pitch it to the age of your kid and the anxiety of your kid and how long you'll be gone and all of that.
45:25Heidi Raykeil:But it doesn't necessarily like start hard and get easy in terms of how much your kid will care. But even that, even if it feels like they're getting more upset when you leave, that too will turn around at some point. That too will change. Like everything in this life, friends. Yeah. Hey, friends, we have a YouTube channel. If you go to youtube.com and you just type in What Fresh Help Podcast, you'll find our channel. Even if you don't go on YouTube that often, next time you're on there, search for the podcast, subscribe to our channel. So we show them like we have listeners out there. And you can also look at our vast, now vast Margaret library of video content of some of these episodes, interviews we've done, all kinds of stuff.
46:02Heidi Raykeil:It is vast indeed. Vast, people. Get a babysitter for your kid and just watch our YouTube for three days. Maybe that's what you can do. Take a vacation in your mind. Take a YouTube vacation. With that, friends, thanks so much for listening. We will talk to you next time. So long.
46:29Thank you to Osea for sponsoring the show. Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum is multi-layer, hyaluronic-powered hydration for the entire body. And right now, we have a special discount just for you. Get 10 % off your first order site-wide with code FRESH at oseamalibu.com. That's code FRESH at O-S-E-A Malibu dot com.
From the publisher
This Deep Dive series is all about tips to stay sane while traveling with family —immediate or extended, kids younger or older in tow, across the state or across the globe!
Does it seem like just as much work to leave your kids behind for a couple of days as not to go in the first place? Do your instructions for family operational procedures during your absence run more than five pages?
Getting away from our kids—for work, for the weekend, for a friend’s 40th—isn’t just good for us. It’s also an opportunity for our kids to realize that “only Mommy” stuff they pull when we’re around is not as necessary as they might have thought.
Margaret and Amy discuss:
Why our kids may behave better when we aren’t around (and why it's not a bad thing)
Why the best time to call your kids when you travel is in the morning
How the instructions you leave behind can change as your kids grow
Here are links to some of the resources mentioned in the episode:
Kari Bodnarchuk for The Boston Globe: Preparing Kids for When a Parent Travels
Smart Women Travelers: Keeping Mom’s Business Trip from Being Mom’s Guilt Trip
Our episode "We Forgot What Little Kids Were Like"
Kara Williams has great advice for vacationing with kids of all ages
What Fresh Hell is co-hosted by Amy Wilson and Margaret Ables.
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website:
https://www.whatfreshhellpodcast.com/p/promo-codes/
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