Fresh Take: Erin Cox on Navigating Family Drama, Guilt, and Stress at the Holidays

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0:27Erin Cox:hey everybody welcome to what fresh hell laughing in the face of motherhood this is amy today i am talking to aaron cox she is a licensed mental health practitioner who has been in the mental health field for 23 years she's an instructor at the university of nebraska at omaha in the graduate studies counseling department she is also mom to three she is also my cousin she can't come more highly recommended. Welcome, Erin. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So start by telling our listeners a little bit about your work as a counselor and the groups that you work with.

1:04So I have been in the mental health field for 23 years. I worked with couples and families and kiddos and adults and you name it. If it's mental health, I'm interested. I don't have a specialty where I only do this or I only do that. So that's left me with sort of like this mixed bag, right? Like if you bring something to me, I can probably figure it out. I've probably seen and done most everything. I love working with people. I'm fascinated by mental health, endlessly interested. And now I teach at the University of Nebraska Omaha, where I work with the counseling students, helping them prepare for their careers in the field of mental health.

1:40Erin Cox:So we're entering a time of year where, I don't know, it's just, it's the most everything time of the year. I wanted to ask you about that. It was, we're going to talk today about sort of sticky family situations at the holidays that our listeners have, that a lot of us have, how to approach them. Why is it that this time of year feels so much more fraught? I think the idea is we come into it with this expectation, right? That things are gonna be magical and perfect. And, you know, life just doesn't really play by those rules. We are humans. And with every experience we're gonna have, there's going to be wonderful things.

2:17There's going to be terrible things and there's going to be neutral things. I mean, that's just how it goes. But for some reason, when we collectively decide, no, no, no, it's only going to be the good things. I'm only accepting the good things. It's like it never comes to fruition. Right. And if we're left with a lot of hurt feelings or resentments or blaming, you know, it's her fault. It's his fault. Instead of just coming at it with like a, you know, managed expectations, like there's going to be good things and bad things and neutral things. And that's okay. That's actually life.

2:46Erin Cox:It reminds me of, I think you studied Buddhism a little bit and this idea of that the pain is in the gap between how you think things should be in the way things are. And you're existing in that gap of frustration instead of accepting your uncle, your sister, you know, for things where they are. A hundred percent. I think that's really such a benefit of mental health is just being like, okay, I can see things as they are, and then I can make decisions from there. And if it doesn't work out the way I want it to work out, well, there are billions of people on this planet. It is unrealistic to say the holiday season is going to be just how I want them.

3:23The weather is going to cooperate, the food will cooperate, the family will, like everyone's just going to do whatever. You are setting yourself up for nothing but heartache if you're going into it like that. At that point, you're sort of causing your own suffering, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Acknowledge like it's going to be messy.

3:38Erin Cox:We are humans. Humans are messy and it's going to be OK. And when you say that you're causing your own suffering, I think it's important to underline that it's not your feelings are imaginary or even optional, just that you are frustrated that your dad isn't different, you know, but choosing to stay there, I guess, is the part where we can maybe work on ourselves a little bit. Absolutely. That's an absolutely like, you know, the call is coming from inside the house kind of opportunity. You know, like, oh, actually, that was me, right? Like, I was just anticipating this time of year, things are going to be magically different.

4:11No, that's on me.

4:12Erin Cox:Got it. Yeah. All right. Well, we asked our listeners to send us their sort of sticky situations of things that they are dreading this holiday season, whether it's being the adult child and the things that come with that, or even, you know, in my case, I have an adult child who won't be home for Thanksgiving this year. And that's okay. I'm not turning this into like you've ruined Thanksgiving, but it is, I'm starting to enter the like, oh, other people's needs need to be included. And so I wanted to go through some of the things that our listeners sent in because they're extremely, I think, as you'll see, and as if you're listening, as you'll hear, these are very common things that a lot of us are dealing with and talk about how we might reframe them.

4:50Erin Cox:So the first person said, I'm not going to use people's names because this is sticky stuff today. So we're just going to say anonymous listeners. So one listener said that for her, sticking to her established boundaries with her family is so much harder around the holidays. She said, I've made a conscious effort to distance myself from the toxicity that I grew up with and to focus on my immediate family. And older generations in her family don't understand. And the guilt trips they lay on her are intense. So what would you say to somebody who's sort of on this path of trying to do things differently and is getting a lot of blowback?

5:26Well, I think that that's sort of the heartbeat of boundaries is that they're for you, right? Your boundaries aren't for the other people. So if other people aren't like, I sure love your boundaries, you know, that probably means you're doing it right. They were never for that other person. Just because everyone else isn't responding the way you want them to respond doesn't mean you're doing your boundaries incorrectly or that there's something wrong. It probably means like the people that have the most beef with you having boundaries are the people that benefited the most from you not having them, you know, in the past.

5:58Oh, if you have boundaries and other people aren't responding to them, like, okay, well, then that was probably a neat boundary.

6:06Erin Cox:We have one listener. This is a very common thing. I think that you drive, you do these long drives, and then you have kids, right? So she said, my husband and I used to travel every other holiday. to either his parents or my parents. It's a seven and a half hour drive to one side of the family, four hour drive to the other side of the family. Everybody else, you know, in both sides of the family are local and don't really get that it's hard to drive. She says, no one seemed to appreciate the time or effort it took to travel in winter in blizzards along Lake Erie, things like that. And she decided that what's right for their family, she and her partner, I guess, decided that, okay, we can't do this because now we also have two young kids.

6:45Erin Cox:We've been doing this for 10 years. we're not doing this now. I'm making part of this up now. But you know, and now these people's parents are saying, thank you for ruining Christmas. Thank you for like, how could you be so selfish? And you don't get you don't get any credit for the decade you spent driving in the blizzard. Right, right. And I think that's part of the you know, what we were going back to earlier of like, there's good things and bad things and neutral things that come with that, you know, there was probably some great benefit to driving and spending time together and enjoying that and then spending time with family, but there's probably also a great benefit to being at home and to say maybe next year.

7:20What your listeners are kind of highlighting is that there's no like one right way. And I think we kind of have this idea like there's this magical right answer. I just have to get it. I just have to like find it. I just have to do that thing. And then everyone will be happy and the holidays will be magical. And my friends and family will adore me. And my children will say, mom, this is the best Christmas or the best Kwanzaa we've ever had. It's just not always like that. It's never like that. But just to say like this year, I want to do this next year, maybe I'll try that. And on we go. But if there's family strife, like who's going where, and we're traveling to have maybe that family meeting, you know, so to speak, and just say, I love you.

8:01I care about you. I want us all to be happy. Can we negotiate holiday times? Could you come to see me? Could you drive the seven and a half hours along Lake Erie and come see me sometimes. To not approach it with the fury or electric fence, but to approach it with like, I love you and I want to spend time with you. How can we do this in a way that works for all of us? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I don't want to set you up like...

8:27Erin Cox:Right. Just say that and then it'll be perfect. That might not be it, but certainly that would give you... We can't control what other people say, do, think, feel, right? So the idea is just... Say that again. Give me that again. We can't control anyone else on the planet's thoughts, feelings, ideas, opinions, behaviors, experiences, none of it, right? We just have mastery over ourselves. Like self-mastery is where it's at. So to go, okay, can I behave in a way that at the end of this day, conversation, holiday, you know, Thanksgiving, whatever it is, say, I couldn't control anybody else today.

9:00I couldn't control their behavior or their feelings, but I'm super proud of the way I handled myself today. Can we just get to that point where we're really proud of how we handle ourselves? can I approach every conversation with that idea? Like I can't control what the other person's going to say or do or think or feel, but I'm really proud of the way I handled me. That's all we got.

9:18Erin Cox:Yeah. And it lowers the bar a little bit. If it felt good for yourself and you conducted yourself during the conversation the way that you wanted to, the difficult conversation, then that is an achievement. That's a win. And you don't have to keep going until everybody agrees with you or feels fine about it. Right. It's compromising and everybody kind of saying what they need to say, but then saying, can we all meet in the middle on this? What's an idea? It's not going to be my way. It's not going to be your way. It's going to be this third way where everybody gets a little needs met and loses a little.

9:48And you know what I mean? Can we get there?

9:51Erin Cox:That's a good way of thinking of it. There's another thing that occurs to me as I'm thinking about this listener doing the long drive, because I think part of what she's frustrated about is the lack of reciprocation, like speaking as a recovering over deliverer. Again, this is not something listeners saying, but I imagine that this is part of it. That's like I drove seven and a half hours for nine years. And now I'm saying you're going to stay, I'm gonna stay home. And everybody's mad at me and not reciprocating that you don't get back anything like the effort you put in yourself that might happen.

10:20Erin Cox:So how do you feel okay about that part of it? Everybody on the planet sort of has three possible choices here. You either change situation, change your thoughts and feelings about the situation or status quo, like do nothing. So in this example, change a situation might be like, look, I'm not going anymore, right? Like if you want to see me, come on out to me, but I'm pulling the plug on this, right? I'm not traveling anymore. Change thoughts and feelings might be like, I am going, but I'm working with my thoughts and feelings of like, look, I only have a limited number of holiday seasons left with family member XYZ.

10:53It's important to me. I want to make the most of it. I want to continue to make this effort. And I'm going to go knowing that's why I'm doing it and knowing that it's not always reciprocated, but this is a choice that I'm making for me. It's important to me, right? Maybe it'd be like an example of a change thoughts and feelings. A status quo would be like, I don't change my thoughts. I don't change my feelings. I don't change a situation. I just keep doing what I've always done. I'm an autopilot. I just do the devil, you know. So you have those choices every time.

11:20Erin Cox:And maybe the issue is like, you've chosen to change your behavior and somebody else is still doing status quo. You've changed your thoughts and feelings and somebody else hasn't. Excellent point. You're doing that for you. You're not changing anybody else's stuff. So do you change a situation might be like, I'm not going, that doesn't mean a guarantee that other people are going to be like, wait, I'm upset. You can't control them. But you know, you're saying, okay, I've had enough, or I'm taking a year off. I think that we tend to think of holidays as like, you do it once that's always going to be this way, right?

11:48We have this nostalgia thing where it's like, and how we did that last year, we have to do every year can be different. Every year could be a different location or a different tradition or a different, right? Like you don't have to do it the same every time. I think families kind of get locked in where it's like, Thanksgiving is at so-and-so's house. Does it have to be? Like, could we also go to this location? I don't know, but tread lightly. People tend to cling to some of those things, but offer an idea. Maybe we could meet here. Or maybe if it's people from too far away locations, could we literally meet in the middle.

12:22Erin Cox:Go to the Holiday Inn. Yeah, yeah. Airbnb and I'll be under one roof and could we do that? Like, I don't know. Like brainstorm. I'm talking to Erin Cox. And when we come back, we're going to talk more about this. How do you gradually hand over something to somebody else, which can be very fraught? We'll be right back. After an afternoon at the pool, my mom's skin needs a hydration reset. The perfect solution, Osea's Undaria Algae Body Oil. It has an amazing citrus scent and a non-greasy texture, so my skin feels silky smooth and stays that way. Osea is clean, clinically tested skincare from the sea, so you can see and feel the difference from just one use.

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15:45Erin Cox:Okay, so before the break, we were talking about how, like, can you gently sort of walk something away from somebody? And this can be very fraught that maybe your parents who generally host Christmas are just getting too old to do it. And And you do it, but you live really far away. Nobody wants to drive. And the person who lives in town doesn't seem to be taking the hint. Or the parent doesn't really want to hand it over, even though they can't get up and downstairs very well anymore, let alone cook for 18. I'm wondering, and this is where I think my over-deliverer things is like, I'm here to fix it, everyone, right?

16:19Erin Cox:I see a problem. Nobody asked me to fix it, but I'm going to. And I'm going to tell everybody what to do, which doesn't always go well. And so I guess, as I'm saying, like, so what do you do when this happens? like maybe you do nothing, but what would you say to the listeners who are feeling that pressure of like, oh my God, it's really time for this to be different, but nobody sees it that way. Well, I think that's part of the messiness that we were talking about earlier, like the human messiness of these equations. The handoff is a big one. I've heard it all the way around that. Like sometimes it's the older generation being like, they won't take it, you know, like very clear, like, please, someone else take this over or vice versa, where it's like, they won't let it go.

17:00It could go either way. But I think the idea is to really have that soft startup, have that like gentle conversation, where you might start off by like thanking that person, like, thank you so much for the years and years and years of generational holidays that we have had here. And I'm so grateful. And I'm so thankful. And I'm just wondering if you'd like to take a break this year or have me do it this year or have it at someone's house this year to just do it gently, you know, do a little role reversal, like put yourself in that person's shoes and look at how they're maybe looking at it and then have the conversation.

17:40So you kind of know your audience. What would that be like to have Thanksgiving at your house for 40 years? And then someone else says, you're, you know, tagging out. It's my turn.

17:49Erin Cox:Right. I don't know. Right. Like some would be like, thank goodness, it's all yours. Finally, then some are going to be like, how dare you? You know, this is my thing. This is my holiday. But you know that person pretty well. I'm guessing if you've had Thanksgiving there for 40 years, you know that person pretty well. So can you kind of put yourself in their shoes? And how can they best hear that message? It occurs to me in these moments too, there tends to be a lot of triangulation, like you and I saying that Aunt Bertha really shouldn't be doing this and her daughter. And And yes, I am being gendered.

18:22Erin Cox:This is a gendered stuff we're dealing with, all this kin keeping of the holidays. She really needs to do something about that, don't you think? And we're like, yes, like really something must be done. We're not in it. Maybe we're not in it or maybe we are in it and bringing in a third person. Like, don't you think I'm right that Jim should go to my house this year instead of having the direct conversations? So can you explain a little bit about like that tendency? Well, I think that circles back to exactly what you're talking about earlier. Like, why does this stuff just get amped up around holiday stuff?

18:51And I think it's because it matters. It matters to everyone, like, at the same time. It's not like a birthday. It's like each person's birthday is on a separate day. This is like it's all on the same day. And so how do you navigate that really gently, being really considerate, being very empathetic, being able to put yourself in their shoes and look at it through their eyes? But what you're describing kind of is that triangulation where it's like, okay, now so-and-so is involved, and then we've got so-and-so. And the main things we're trying to avoid is any sort of toxic situation where you're bringing up things like fear, obligation, and guilt.

19:24You know, we call it fog. Oh, all right. We want to avoid those things. So if you're using those things, you're being toxic. Or if other people are using those things, you know, that's kind of like a toxic mix. So try to avoid any time you're saying yes out of fear or you're saying no out of fear or obligation or guilt. Try to do it from this healthy place. of like, no, I love my family or I love my friends and I want to spend time with them and this is important to me and so I'm going to participate. Rather than the like, oh, I have to, you know? Right. That's an obligation where someone's laying a guilt trip on you for doing it or not doing it or coming or not coming, right?

20:02Like try to avoid the fog. Fear, obligation, guilt.