Fresh Take: Laura Clery on Codependency, Co-Parenting, and Starting Over

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0:32Hello, everyone, and welcome to Fresh Take. From what fresh hell, laughing in the face of motherhood. This is Margaret. And today I am talking to a woman I'm sure you know, Laura Clary. She is a mom, an actress, an influencer, and a comedian best known for posting comedy sketches and vlogs about her day-to-day life on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, where she has a combined following of nearly 26 million followers and uploads of 10 billion with a B views. She is the author of Idiot and Idiots, and she lives in Los Angeles with her son and daughter. Today, we are talking about her new memoir, What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Hotter.

1:14Welcome, Laura. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Girl, this book is a ride. I mean, you lived it. I don't have to tell you, but I always say my favorite genre is the page turner memoir. It's very hard to find a page turner memoir. This one fits the category perfectly. I mean, I want to say thank you. And I'm gonna say thank you, you know, because it's my story. And I'm and I'm owning it. I didn't know it was going to be a thriller. There's definitely some jokes in there, though. Oh, it's super funny. Lots of laughs. It's not although it deals with a lot of hard stuff. It's not a depressing read.

1:53It's not like that my grandmother died and then we were burying people left and right. It's not like it's not Angela's ashes. It's got a lot of humor in it. Thank you. But for people, I'm sure many people, most of our audience is familiar with you. Yeah. But they may not know the intricacies of your story. So we could be here for seven hours, but let's walk through this sort of beat version of this. You are a young actress model living in LA. You're sober, newly sober, and you meet your husband at a Halloween party. So start us from there. So I was, you know, 23 or 24 at the time. And I was, yeah, I was newly sober.

2:40I was 59 days sober. And I remember I just wasn't leaving my house. You know, I didn't want to be in social situations, didn't want to be tempted around alcohol and weed or whatever else. Can I say that? You can say weed. We know about weed. It's okay. Okay. Have the headphones at the ready. I told Laura we're a clean rated podcast, not totally her vibe. So moms have the headphones nearby for this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's good. It's good. But anyway, long story long, my sister invites me to a Halloween party. And at the time she would exclusively hang out with British people. Okay. It's a choice.

3:15There's a name. It's called an Anglophile when you're obsessed with British culture. Yeah. And that was file for French people. I got it. Yes. To the point where she acquired a periodic British accent, like she would call me like, do you want to get some tea? And I'm like, you're from Chicago. Love it. If it's good enough for Madonna, it's good enough for your sister. Hilarious. She's grown out of it. But she invites me to this party full of British musicians, and I meet my future husband, now ex-husband, at this party. I remember I walked into the garden, and I saw him from across the garden, and he had this beautiful suit on, and he was laughing with a friend.

3:55And I remember I just loved his smile and I wanted to know what he was laughing about. I was like, I wonder what he's laughing about. Just very drawn to him. And then I noticed he had a bottle of water and I was like, that's my in. So I walk up to him and I'm like, hey, where'd you get your water? And he's like, Paul, awesome pickup line. Thank you. Thank you. I nailed it. Clearly worked. It worked. No notes. Yeah. And I was like, and I just like was so nervous. I kept talking about water. I was like, yeah, I know. I love water. It's just so important to stay hydrated. It worked out. I mean, I'm not hearing anything that makes me think like I get it.

4:32But you guys ended up getting married and having two children. That's right. That's right. So we start talking about water. Then I tell him I'm leaving the party because everyone's getting wasted. And he's like, why are you leaving? And I said, because I'm the only sober person here. He says, I'm sober. He's British, by the way. And I said, you know, sober, sober. And he said, sober, sober. So we end up meeting at a recovery meeting the next day. We have this three-hour lunch, and he's a film composer. I'm a struggling, barely working comedy actress. And we just vibe, and we are engaged in six months and married in a year.

5:08And have a child how far in? Well, we met in 2012, and I had Alfie in 2019. Oh, so you were together for a long time before you started having kids. Okay. Yes, we were. We had separated once before, actually. We were married. A few years into our marriage, he had a relapse, and he became a totally different person. I didn't know what was going on. Then I discovered that he was back on drugs. And so I made my first escape then and moved out. We separated. And then he went to rehab, went to detox, worked all the steps. He even flew to Downers Grove, Illinois, where I'm from, to make amends to my parents for hurting me.

5:49He really did the work. And, you know, that's the thing, too. We're both recovering addicts. And so I empathize with the addict. I know it's a disease. So, right, I'm not judgmental around that stuff. So anyway, he worked the steps that time. I took him back. And we had, we call this, you chewed your leg out of the bear trap. And then you stepped right back in. but you know, it happens. Yeah. Back in again. I'm back in again, though. I got to say we had many great years. Oh, I mean, I chewed my leg out of the bear trap after having a kid and then had two more. Like, I don't know why, you know, sometimes you have a painful experience and you're like, I'm going back for more.

6:31I'm going back. Not done. No notes. Here I go again on my own. Yeah. So we had several great years. We were both sober doing, you know, making millions of people laugh around the world with comedy and music. Just I got to do what I loved with the person I loved. It was a dream. I mean, a dream for many years until it wasn't. Let's go back. You start during your early phase of your marriage to make comedy videos on the internet. You've been an actress. Amy and I, my partner on the podcast, we're both started in Hollywood. So we kind of lived that, you know, you're trying to get a job from someone else.

7:09and then you figure out, wait a minute, I could just make something on my own and not ask other people's permission. Exactly right. That's exactly. I flew out here at 17 years old from Chicago, slept on my friend's couch. I had nothing, got an agent, booked the first commercial I went in on, and I was like, this is easy. It's nothing more dangerous than that first taste. You're like, this isn't bad. Book the first thing. It was a Spanish cell phone commercial, and I didn't know what anyone was saying. I was just dancing around in a crop top with a cell phone. You're like, I've made it. I'm ready to buy the Malibu mansion.

7:43Literally nailed it. Yeah. But many, many years of spending my life auditioning, I would do some sitcoms and then they get canceled or I'd get fired for showing up to work on mushrooms. And you know, I mean, but shocking that you got fired for that in LA having been there for a long time. But you know, you were working on different shows than I was that was a requirement of the job. And then around the time that I met Steven, he could see me depressed because I had no control of my career. I was just waiting for a director to hire a lanky blonde girl. And he actually inspired me. He said, you know, just get a camera.

8:21You have so many great characters. You're such a great writer. Just post this stuff on the internet. And I did that and I became obsessive some could say addictive about it And I posted a video every single day for a year and six months in I had my first viral video And I truly never stopped i've been doing it ever since So you and steven your ex-husband are now linked on So many different levels you're linked in your sobriety you're linked in your Marriage and you're now business partners as well and then you go on to have two children together. Oh, yeah Did you have a feeling when that started like, wow, we're we're doing a lot of stuff together, you know?

9:01I loved it. You loved it. Oh, yeah. I'm codependent. I got some daddy issues. You were like, this is filling my cup, filling all the empty spaces. Oh, yeah. There were times where I almost felt like he was my higher power. It was it was so. So, but again, you know, there were times with that. Like if he was in a bad mood, I was in a bad mood. If he was angry, I was distraught. You know, it was very codependent, but it was never bad enough. And sometimes it was really great, but we did do everything together. We worked together, we were married and it worked for a time. And I always thought about couples where the man or the woman goes to the office nine to five and then they get home and they don't wanna talk to each other because they're exhausted from the day.

9:47and I'm like, that sucks for them. I get to laugh all day and create with my best friend and my partner. It's the best thing ever. Again, I loved it and it was so incredible until it wasn't. Him and I both came from very little, lots of love, but no money, no fame, obviously none of that. There was working class life. When we stepped into success, started making a lot of money, millions of views people recognizing on the street all that stuff i think it changed both of us a bit how could it not change i mean it's a i call it opening the door on the submarine like all of a sudden it's just overwhelming levels of stuff coming in good bad and ugly yeah and i think because we're both recovering addicts there was a bit of an addiction to it now i'm gonna say and i think he would agree with me when I say he was even more addicted than I was.

10:48If I didn't have a certain amount of views on my video or bring in a certain amount of money, I remember it was really tense in the house. I felt like I could never take a break. And when I would say like, hey, I just had a baby. I would really like to take a little bit of time. Successful people don't take time off, Laura. Successful people don't take time off. Look at your Google trends. you're becoming irrelevant. I was like, so scared to lose his love. And so I never stopped. And I think it's really strange because it's like, that's probably why I'm as successful as I am, because I never stopped.

11:30But then at what cost? You know, I was in a diaper postpartum, writing my second book, filming my videos. Truly, I even vlogged my birth. Right. I did not take time ever. And when you have a partner who, if, for example, you had a partner who was like an accountant or something, they might be saying, it seems to me you're working too hard. You don't have anybody off the highway. So like you're both on the highway driving at full speed. Yes. And nobody's saying this feels too fast. You really need a break because you're both kind of addicted to the hit and the serotonin of, oh, my God, the video did well.

12:11And nobody's putting the brakes on. Yep. I've heard you say both about addiction and about your partnership. This phrase really stuck with me. It's fun. And then it's fun with problems. And then it's problems. Yes. And I have used that phrase with my kids because I think it really captures for kids like it's not that it's not fun. If it wasn't fun, you wouldn't do it. Drugs are fun fundamentally. Yeah. But this pattern always plays out. It's fun and then it's fun with problems and then it's only problems. And I think sometimes people try to explain to their kids like drugs are bad. They're evil.

12:56They're problems. and kids are like, at the party though, they look really fun. So I love that framing. I think it's really useful. Absolutely. And it's so true. And it's really interesting. I always talk about that around the drug and alcohol use. I'll have 15 years sober October 29th. Congratulations. Thank you. But it really works with cross addictions too. It's the same premise. So it's not just drugs and alcohol. It's like shopping. Yeah, it's fun. And then it's fun with problems because, oh shoot, can I pay my rent? And then it's just problems with shopping addiction or with any sex and love addiction.

13:37Or in this case, it was maybe work addiction. And so it was fun and then fun with problems. We would be laying in bed. I remember we had a couple's therapist and I was like, you know, I feel like all we do is talk about work, talk about how to grow, how to build. And I just want my husband back. I just want to be able to go on a date and admire the flowers and flirt and not think about making money or monetizing our relationship. I don't want this, you know, because for many years before we were just a couple, it happened so that they were comedy videos. And then we started vlogging. I remember one time we got in a bad argument.

14:19I pulled out the camera. I started vlogging. Right. Because this is what we do. I started filming him. And I think partially because I felt like he was gaslighting me. And I was like, I want to know if I'm going crazy. And the only way to know is to film it. And I just started filming it right when I did. He like changed. But it's very toxic. You know, looking back. I'm talking to Laura Clary. She is the author of the new memoir, What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Hotter. And we will be right back. Summer is definitely a time when you want to be able to throw something on just before running out the door while also somehow looking like you definitely didn't just do that.

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19:28And I just didn't know what was going on, why we were so distant, why there was no love or connection. It was like we were in the same room, but a hundred miles apart. And you also have a son who had been diagnosed with autism. And I have a child on the spectrum as well. And knowing that the diagnosis phase, and we've talked a lot about it on the podcast and with people who've been through it, It's not like some other medical diagnosis where it's like, okay, your child has this tumor and we're going to do this operation and we're expecting one of these three outcomes. When you have an autism diagnosis, it's often like the worst case scenario, your child will never speak or walk or live independently, but also it could go 40 other ways.

20:14It's a very soupy and complicated diagnosis. Absolutely. I agree. Though when we, when Alfie was diagnosed just under two, they said he was diagnosed with level three severe autism that he may never speak, may never become independent. It was very much, oh, he's severe. So they gave you only the worst case scenario. Oh yeah. And at the time autism wasn't trending like it is now. Right. So like it's literally, you know, I mean, I love that there's so much information about it people are talking about it. But I also hear Gen Z say things like, I'm going nonverbal today. And I'm like, okay, not cute.

20:52We need to calm down. We're not doing that. But at the time when Alfie was diagnosed, I felt like I could only, I was only seeing these horror stories online of like, he will be aggressive and violent and never show love is a big one, which, you know, is a heartbreaker for moms. Never show love. I could not be further from the truth. My son just turns seven, he spends half his day on me, snuggling me, holding me, and staring into my soul. He'll just stare into my soul for like 20 minutes at a time, just smiling and he like just deep, deep connection. I swear he's connected to God, higher power, source, whatever, in a way that typical people cannot even understand.

21:40He's like on a different plane. It's incredible. And he is speaking. He's not conversational. If you say, what's your name? He'll just stare at you. But he can form sentences. But at the time, Alfie was diagnosed. My daughter was just born. We were renovating our dream house and the contractors ran away with a bunch of the money and filed for bankruptcy. It was a lot of s*** happening. And around that time, I believe, is when he got back on drugs. And I was unaware until it got so bad and so scary. And that is where I start this third book, was the day when everything changed and there was no going back.

22:22and you're dealing with all of this and you are to the internet, Stephen and Laura. It's different than being, you know, if your marriage falls in a forest and nobody hears it, like you're on everybody's radar as this couple that people are probably, what's the word? They have a parasocial relationship, right? But Stephen and Laura are like my favorite couple. And then pretty immediately you have to start dealing with this online. And I think Steven makes a video that you're not expecting saying you're separated. And you're in not only a relationship disillusion, but you're kind of like on TV doing it.

23:09I mean, I'm old, so I'm saying on TV, but you're just on the stage acting this out for millions of people. So tell me about that phase. I mean, it was bizarre. He had done something that was so terrifying and scary that I asked him for a separation. He said he understood. I begged him to get help. But, you know, everyone knows you cannot force an addict to get help. And at the time, I actually just thought it was like some sort of mental breakdown. I didn't know that it was drugs. Looking back, it seems so obvious, but I just didn't. I just thought he had some mental health issues going on that were manifesting in a really scary way.

23:53So I asked for a separation. I wake up the next morning to all these texts and calls. Oh, my gosh, are you okay? Are you okay? Is everything okay? And I'm like, what's going on? Why is my nanny's second cousin texting me if I'm okay? What? I haven't even told my mom. And then I look on YouTube and there's a video that pops up from him titled, I separated from my wife. Like and subscribe. And that was shocking. And I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you posting this private information on the internet? We haven't had time to process. I'm still completely traumatized from the events that just happened.

24:28And it's not just people texting me. It's all on my comments, what's going on. Everyone knows. The whole world knows. And he goes, well, this is what we do. we post our lives to the internet you know you posted your birth video 13 million people saw your whisker biscuit you know so were you like i see your point by or you were like whoa whoa whoa i mean you do say in the book we always approved what we were doing it was there was some choice involved and this you had no choice in we always talked about it even in my second book i wanted to write about he had an affair on his first relapse and I asked him if I could write about the affair and he was like yeah that's your truth write about it it happened that was one thing I loved about him was he never was like no image no he was like write the truth right the truth the truth the truth right but he kind of forgot about the consent piece of that which was let me ask first.

25:27Well, yeah, exactly. You got a little too truthy. You got a little too truthy. And that's the addiction, isn't it? It's like it's spiraling into this world. He doesn't care now. Maybe a year ago, he would have said, Laura, should we make a video talking about our separation? But now the addiction, he's spiraling so hard in it that anything for the likes and the views and the monetization, he knows this is going to go viral. Social media is designed to be so addictive. You have to be careful. So yeah, it went out there to the world and it just kept happening. It's not like that was the bottom, girl.

26:05This was just the beginning. Guys, get the book. We're not going to go through every step because I don't even want to ruin your read. It's such a wild ride. It's wild. But it reminded me reading it of an experience that I had where I found old journals and I started reading them. And I was with a person for a long time, maybe three years. And it was years worth of journals. And I started rereading them. And it was just basically every three pages was a repetition of the same story. Like I am trying to make something I feel it's we were in a creative partnership. It was smaller scale, but not unlike your story.

26:41Yeah. And like, I feel like he's undercutting me and I really want to support what his vision is. Anyway, it just like every six pages was me writing the same thing for 500 pages. And I never realized while I was writing it that that's what I was doing. But it fascinated me looking back 20 years, pulling out these dusty journals, like how did I write the same thing every day for three years and never realized that I was on a loop. I was on a merry-go-round. And then looking back as 20 years later, I'm like, what idiot was doing this and not realizing that they were just going around and around?

27:25Round and around. I don't mean this in a bad way, but it reminded me of that reading the book a little bit in terms of it does seem like you two get on this merry-go-round that just keeps ending up in the same place again and again and again but with like crazy escalations every time it rotates nailed it nailed it and it's also i had a therapist say to me a long time ago like my job is to stand on the side because you can't tell how fast you're going in the car and so my job is to stand on the side and be like you're going too fast but you guys are both in the car together and like there's nobody on the sideline saying you're going in a crazy fast circle.