In short
How much parents should share with kids about their personal history, family conflict, health issues, and major life events—balancing honesty with age-appropriate detail to avoid harm or “permission” to repeat risky behavior.
Guests
Amy and Margaret Ables (hosts of What Fresh Hell). They draw on their own parenting experiences and cite advice from sources including MetroParent.com and Harvard, plus references to guests like Janelle Hanchett (memoir about addiction) and Dr. Mary Martin (talking to teens about drugs).
Key claims
Share selectively and for the child’s benefit, not to vent, recruit, or unload guilt. Match details to developmental stage; answer only what the child asks. For serious illness, wait for concrete info when possible, but name conditions directly when kids are older. Avoid explicit details that are too heavy; reassure kids and keep routines steady.
Notable examples
“Danish babies” anecdote; a messy divorce explained without context to a child; how kids may blame themselves for a parent’s illness; discussing addiction/heredity; a motorcycle accident; cancer timing; children processing death via play; using “what we can change vs can’t change” and asking for help.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMailbag and Danish Babies
1:12 to 3:35
Amy shares a humorous experience from a wedding in Finland involving babies.
“I didn't write in, but I'm kind of verbally doing a mailbag because, as I mentioned, I was recently at a wedding in Finland.”
Childhood Family Dynamics
3:36 to 5:25
Discussion on how family information and conflicts were handled in their childhoods.
“What kind of house did you grow up in in terms of the information that was shared with you about what was going on?”
Navigating Family Secrets
5:26 to 7:35
Exploration of how much personal history and family drama should be shared with children.
“Nothing really about what was going on in the adults' lives.”
Sharing Personal Experiences
7:36 to 10:52
Discussion on the balance of sharing personal stories with children and potential risks.
“because I now, all of my wacky friends from my wacky days have teenagers now, basically.”
Guidelines for Sharing with Kids
10:53 to 13:45
Practical guidelines on what and how much to share with children regarding past experiences.
“But I think if we were sexually active at an age where we wouldn't want our kids to be sexually active, that's where I think it becomes an issue.”
Introduction to Discussing Family Secrets
14:37 to 15:06
Exploring the need to share family secrets with children.
The Importance of Sharing Past Mistakes
15:11 to 16:10
Discussing how and when to share past mistakes with children.
“Goodness knows genealogy.com or whatever, like you swab that cheek and some nuts are going to fall out of the family tree.”
Contextualizing Past Choices
16:11 to 19:46
How to frame discussions about past life choices and their consequences.
“who did have children in college or high school that they gave up for adoption.”
Discussing Fun vs. Problems
19:47 to 20:56
The balance between discussing the fun aspects of life and the problems that can arise.
“Share selectively when kids are mature enough.”
Handling Heavy Adult Issues with Kids
20:57 to 22:40
Navigating discussions about heavy adult issues with children.
“I think you said on an episode talking to kids like the people who I knew in high school who were using drugs heavily didn't get past it.”
Show all 22 chapters
When to Share Trauma with Children
22:41 to 24:49
Guidance on sharing traumatic experiences with children.
“My husband and I were in a very, very bad motorcycle accident early in our relationship.”
Managing Children's Perceptions
24:50 to 28:00
Understanding how children perceive information and stories related to them.
“I struggle with when to tell kids about things that might be developing.”
Understanding Kids' Perspectives
28:00 to 28:20
Explore how kids see themselves as the center of the universe.
“Like that is just the way that kids kids are like, I am the center of the universe.”
Understanding Kids' Perspectives
29:28 to 30:37
Explore how kids see themselves as the center of the universe.
“space, year-round fun for the whole family, that I bet you already know what I'm going to say before I even say the name.”
Connected or Too Connected?
30:49 to 31:56
Discuss the balance of connection and independence in parenting.
“And now, are you connected or too connected?”
Navigating Difficult Health Conversations
31:56 to 34:30
Strategies for discussing serious health issues with older kids.
“When there is distressing news about health and kids are a little older, I mean, I'm thinking about this wasn't my own health, but this was my parents' health.”
Children's Reactions to News
34:30 to 36:22
Understanding how children may react to distressing news and illness.
“With teenagers, share a more complete picture of the diagnosis, treatment plan, long-term outlook, and then checking on their emotional load.”
Managing Emotional Support and Routines
36:22 to 38:26
The importance of maintaining routines and asking for help.
“what's going on when mom gets fired from her job.”
Expressing Emotions in Front of Kids
38:26 to 41:12
How to show vulnerability and emotions without overwhelming children.
“I would call Amy and be like, you're my help coordinator person.”
Open Conversations with Kids
41:12 to 42:01
Creating a safe space for children to express feelings about serious topics.
“you shouldn't I'm not a super emotional person but I think I understand that and try then to give some words to like I feel really sad I feel really lost I feel really nervous not to my kids necessarily.”
Navigating Conversations About Difficult Topics
42:01 to 43:36
Learn how to approach sensitive discussions with kids in a supportive way.
“And it's like, yeah, I feel like that, too.”
Encouraging Word of Mouth for the Podcast
43:36 to 44:11
Discover the importance of sharing episodes to grow the podcast audience.
“We now know exactly how much to share with our kids and when.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Heidi Sandys:Late night bites with friends? Already hard to beat.
0:05Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:That first too hot bite of fries you couldn't wait for, followed by ice cold Pepsi. Now that hits different. Suddenly, the energy kicks back in. The night goes longer, and the laughs don't stop.
0:17Heidi Sandys:Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today.
0:29Heidi Sandys:When do you bring up, oh, your dad had a different wife than me.
0:33Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:What fresh hell. Laughing in the face of motherhood. They're going to shoot the messenger. With Margaret Ables and Amy Wilson.
0:41Heidi Sandys:I don't even have normal emotions, so I can't show them. I'm dead inside. A podcast that solves today's parenting dilemmas so you don't have to.
0:50Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Don't make it sound too awesome that you stood in a cemetery with wine coolers every weekend.
0:58Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Hey, everybody. Welcome to What Fresh How.
1:00Heidi Sandys:This is Amy. And this is Margaret. And today we're talking about how much should we share with our kids about what's going on in our lives. But before that, Amy, I have a mailbag. Mailbag. From myself to the podcast. You wrote. I didn't write in, but I'm kind of verbally doing a mailbag because, as I mentioned, I was recently at a wedding in Finland. And I want to say that I witnessed Danish babies in real life person. They were Finnish babies. It's not just a thing on TikTok like it really happened. It was so crazy. I was like, these are Danish babies. It was maybe like 60, 70 people at the wedding, but a lot of them had babies, like five or six of them had babies.
1:51Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:As the Finns do. Lots of babies. Yeah.
1:54Heidi Sandys:And also, like, it was a younger couple. The couple was in their young 30s. So like lots of people with babies. We were sitting at a table with a couple with a baby. There was maybe a couple with a baby at almost every table. And then at a certain point of the night, I was like, where did all the babies go? Is there a babysitter? Like, where are the babies? Then one of the guys at our table was like, I got to go check on, you know, or whatever the baby's name was. And went outside. They were all in carriages outside, sleeping, doing their Danish baby thing. They were just all together outside sleeping.
2:28Heidi Sandys:Wow. And I was like, you guys, these are real live Danish babies. It was incredible.
2:33Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Was there any part of your brain that's like, where is the babysitter? Where is this? Like, bad things could happen. Like, did you have any?
2:39Heidi Sandys:No, I was like, I know about this. I mean, I'm familiar with this concept. These are the Danish babies. And it was summertime, but because it's Finland, it was, you know, in the 60s, maybe. And they were all bundled up and outside sleeping like six babies all together. And I was like, wow, my dreams have come true. I've seen a real life Danish baby, even though they're technically Finnish babies.
3:00Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I think I'd like to be a Finnish baby now if I could be like all bundled up by somebody. Like it'd have to be like a Tempur-Pedic mattress, all that.
3:07Heidi Sandys:If you haven't been listening to the podcast for a long time, we were talking a lot about the phenomenon of Danish babies and how Danish people leave their babies outside in the winter. And then we ourselves became Danish babies because it was during COVID and we were wrapping up and sitting outside, even though it was cold. Yeah, it was all we had. Go outside. Yeah. Let me tell you, it's still summertime here in the U.S., but when it becomes cold again, I'm going to outfit myself like a burrito and go sit outside like a Danish baby. Today, Amy, we are talking about how much we share with our kids in different categories.
3:43Heidi Sandys:What kind of house did you grow up in in terms of the information that was shared with you about what was going on?
3:53Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I didn't grow up in a household where if there was conflict, it was subterra. You know what I'm saying? Correct. It was not. So you could sense something was going on, but not what it was. And there wasn't a lot of like, I want to say overt conflict, but we didn't talk about what was going on with stuff. You don't kind of pick up on things. And we definitely did not talk about like what's going on in the world. And I remember meeting your sister as a college student and thinking she was so wise to have opinions on the Iraq war and things like that. And I know now from knowing you that that's because you talked about the larger world a lot in your house.
4:28Heidi Sandys:Yes, we talked a ton. My father was tangentially involved in politics, and we talked a ton about news and world events very openly from at the time the Cold War. And, you know, I was kind of like many kids in the 80s, obsessed and frightened of Russia. And we talked about what was going on in the world quite vividly. We did not talk a lot about what was going on. My mother had cancer twice when I was young. And my parents' choice, I think, was to involve us when the rubber hit the road kind of a little bit. Like she would have gotten a diagnosis, gotten a prognosis. And then it was only when she it was clear she was going to have to go to the hospital that they would sit us down and be like, OK, mom has cancer and she's going to go have this surgery.
5:27Heidi Sandys:the one thing we never talked about in our house was family drama like looking back I have a really different sense of the relationships that were going on between people my family but that was never discussed in front of the children like this couple is about to get divorced and this person doesn't really like this person and this person that blah blah so like no family gossip at all. Nothing really about what was going on in the adults' lives. Again, like there was a couple who came over a lot and at some point the husband stopped coming and it became like, yes, they have split up and they're getting a divorce.
6:10Heidi Sandys:But never, we would have no sense of that before. It was a need to know basis, I would say.
6:17Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:When I was in fourth grade, I had a girl in my class who was also my second cousin. And so it was, we were sort of encouraged to play together, like your cousins, you know, that kind of things. We didn't know each other that well, but I go over her house, over my house. I liked her. She, she liked, you know, ballet and jazz. And so did I, you know, to disagree about. And then all of a sudden I wasn't really allowed to play with her anymore. It was being like, and when that came up, it was a little like, no context. Anyway, There was an extremely messy divorce of the parents, which this was the 80s.
6:53Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:And so at least then it was like a little bit scandalous that there was a divorce. But her mom had cheated on the dad who was the reason that I was related to this girl. It was sad and messy estrangement. But I just remember as a fourth grader, like, why am I not all of a sudden not allowed to play with her? Not supposed to like talk to her anymore. Yeah, it was. I think she probably felt the same way. and we were not sat down and explained because it was all a little scandalous. But you don't miss it. You don't miss that something's happening. You just don't know what the details are. But yes, that's an example of something that maybe could have been ruled out to me in some way and it just was not.
7:25Heidi Sandys:So let's talk about our personal history and how much of that we want to share with our children. Okay. Personal history, obviously, it's interesting to me because I now, all of my wacky friends from my wacky days have teenagers now, basically. And this is a conversation about how much of our personal story and behavior are we sharing with our teenagers because we understand the benefits children could learn from our experience, learn from our mistakes. They can feel less alone in their struggles. They can feel like, oh, my mom really can relate to me about these things. things but when it comes to things like sex drugs or rock and roll the risk fear element is children will feel that they have permission to do whatever we did like this is what we worry about like I can never tell them I used to smoke in college because they'll think it's okay to vape they'll think I'm a hypocrite because I'm telling them not to do things that I did and the only reason as you're
8:37Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:saying this, it occurs to me, the only reason I say these things would be to be a cautionary tale, like, don't be like me, the mistake maker, instead of, oh, I remember I used to smoke all the time in college. Like, you're not, you're definitely not bringing it up casually to seem hip and relatable. You're doing it to be like, don't do this thing that I did. It seems usually.
8:53Heidi Sandys:Right. And I think because we had Janelle Hanchett on the podcast, who wrote a lovely memoir about her addiction. I'm just happy to be here. It's called. And I do think sometimes when your choices have gone catastrophically wrong, it's easier to be like, listen, I use drugs and I ended up disappeared for 10 years. So really, you shouldn't do it. But I think for a lot of people, their experience is more like I experimented with stuff and it turned out just fine. And so that I think is a harder needle to thread with kids sometimes where you kind of want to be like absolutely zero sex, drugs and rock and roll is what I want for you, because I know that those things can lead to really problematic outcomes.
9:43Heidi Sandys:Although for me, whichever of those things I happen to experiment with, it really wasn't that big a deal. You know what I'm saying? Like that middle ground can be really tricky.
9:53Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Every embarrassing story I have has been put into one of my two books at this point. And that's right. And they mostly are like, I let somebody you mistreat me? You know, like I had like relationships that went on too long, like no true cautionary tales. I feel like as they get older, as they're getting ready to leave the house, you do want them to know, like, I do know what it's like to drink too much. I have done that in my life. And here's this thing that happened.
10:16Heidi Sandys:Let me quote you, Laura Mikus from Grown and Flown. Minimizing or failing to share our struggles can create a false history that may give the impression that we didn't have similar challenges. This robs us of opportunities to engage in conversations and storytelling that might offer helpful insights or at the very least affirmation that our kids aren't alone in their struggles. We're fine with that, right? Yes. But on the fluke side, are we giving them permission to indulge? And so for moms who are listening with littles as we get into stuff, you might want to throw headphones on if you don't want to talk sex, drugs, and rock and roll right now with your kids.
10:54Heidi Sandys:But I think if we were sexually active at an age where we wouldn't want our kids to be sexually active, that's where I think it becomes an issue. How do you present your past without handing your kid keys? And I think the key is that it's not a one-to-one. You know, it's not like, well, I became sexually active at 13. I didn't. I'm using this as an example. So therefore, you can as well, or if I share that with you, And maybe the idea is you shouldn't share that at all. Here are some guidelines, which I thought were pretty helpful. MetroParent.com. Number one, is this information for them or for you?
11:35Heidi Sandys:That is such a great discernment right there. Are you using your children to vent or unload heavy emotional baggage or guilt? Yeah. Are you using your children to get them on your side in a conflict with another person? Don't do that. are you using them to get them on your side against your spouse or your mother-in-law or someone else in the family? Are you getting members of your team really, really watch that? Venting or unloading is, I think, no-go territory. If it's for them, hey, you came home drunk last night at 15. And I want to tell you that my experiences of drinking as a teenager hurt me in these ways.
12:24Heidi Sandys:And this is why I want to talk to you about it. Connection versus unloading, venting, or recruiting. Are they old enough? This is obviously ages and stages. Match your words to their developmental stage and ability to comprehend. And answer the question they asked, Yes.
12:45Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Answer only the question they ask. The birds and the bees can be 20 conversations, not one. And don't avoid having it. On the other hand, don't start talking about condoms to a seven-year-old who's just beginning to ask one question.
12:59Heidi Sandys:And I also think that some of the fear about this is like children, it may come up, but I don't know a lot of children who are like, mom, I'm dying to know when you started becoming sexually active. Like, I don't know. I don't think it's going to come up. Will it help or harm? Does it teach them a valuable lesson or does it act as a stumbling block, an excuse for bad behavior?
13:22Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I feel like I have almost no stories in my past that would be like, OK, they need to know this one because that time that I got arrested, you know, and I had drugs in the car. I don't have a story that's so important. They need to know this for their future. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't share anything then.
13:39Heidi Sandys:But you bring up a really interesting point with that. So let's take a break and we'll be back and we'll talk about that. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends and now that's next level. Suddenly the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today.
14:36Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans.
15:06Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:information, visit jdpower.com slash awards. Awards based on 2026 model year. Newer models may be shown.
15:10Heidi Sandys:So you just mentioned like you don't have a story in your past that you think like, oh my God, scandal. It's 2026. So if you did have a secret child when you were in high school that you gave up for adoption, an arrest, if you got married when you were 23, this information is available to your children and they will find it at a certain point. Goodness knows genealogy.com or whatever, like you swab that cheek and some nuts are going to fall out of the family tree. And so I also think in a different way than before, and I think not for the positive, the amount of information about you, if you got a DUI, your child is going to find out about that at a certain point.
15:59Heidi Sandys:And so you might have to share that information with your children, not when they're four, but not when they're never either. Some stories are too important not to tell, I would think. Well, and even if you didn't want to tell them, I mean, I definitely know people back from my day who did have children in college or high school that they gave up for adoption. And at the time, it was arranged quite secretly with the idea that this could be a forgotten chapter in their lives that they would move on from. And literally, nobody knew about it except for the very small handful of people they told in college while talking about stuff.
Read the full transcript
16:40Heidi Sandys:And that has left the building, unfortunately. And I don't necessarily think for the better. I don't know that kids need to know about all of our, you know, mistakes and secrets, but it's an age where they're going to find out. So you kind of do have to find a way to talk about stuff.
16:57Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:When it comes to addiction, as an example, if you have addiction in your family, it's sensitive information. However, I do think there's an age at which kids need to understand that about themselves because addiction is hereditary, at least in some part, and you are more likely to become addicted if you have addicts in your family. And so that is something that that information that you've kept secret that maybe your kids need to know about at some point. How you roll that out is tough going, but it seems to me like that would be worth sharing.
17:26Heidi Sandys:I think you roll it out in the context of know better, do better, always. So I know in my family, the generation before me drove while intoxicated all the time. I mean, talks about it. And, you know, I would make the trip from here to there and not remember the next day. I would wake up in a bed and be like, which bed am I in? I can't remember if I'm in where my parents live or my apartment in the city or whatever. Then, of course, in the course of those stories, there is one friend or cousin who didn't make it home or who injured someone else coming home. And so I think you can contextualize and smoking is the same way.
18:08Heidi Sandys:I mean, when I look at pictures of my parents, every single person in every single picture is smoking a cigarette. They talk about, you know, at the time we didn't know cigarettes were this bad for us and we did enjoy smoking cigarettes and it was fun. And it was like these pictures look like something out of a movie, you know, like a hundred people, like in a beautiful, like fun fifties mad men looking cocktail party. And everybody has a cigarette in their hand. And being able to contextualize, I think some of my drinking, I think some of my, you know, either we didn't know better, or I realize now that I drank a lot in college because I felt insecure.
18:51Heidi Sandys:I thought I was drinking to have fun. But I realize now that I put myself in dangerous situations. And I drank because I didn't feel like I fit in in that environment. And drinking has different purposes, but it shouldn't be used for that reason. And I didn't realize until I was much older. And I wish I could go back and tell my younger self, you don't have to get drunk to go to a party. And in fact, when you get drunk to go to a party, you're putting yourself in a dangerous and bad situation. That seems to be like an extremely useful part of your past. I mean, the fact is sex, drugs and rock and roll are all really fun.
19:33Heidi Sandys:That's why people do them. And I think when we tell our kids these things are dangerous and bad We're setting them up for failure because they're not going to find them bad. They're going to find them fun Laura clary when she was on the podcast said it starts as fun. Then it's fun with problems Then it's only problems and it's like you have to give them the fun part too Because like of course you feel more relaxed if you have three drinks before going out socially if you're socially anxious But let me tell you the end of that story and how suddenly you find yourself dependent on alcohol to go anywhere and really setting up, I think, not just like look at these fun pictures of us in the 80s with our crazy big hair and everybody's got a white and cooler in high school.
20:23Heidi Sandys:Let's talk about continuing our list. Past mistakes and failures. Share selectively when kids are mature enough. emphasize the consequences and what you learn. This is what we were just talking about. Rather than sounding boastful or casual about poor choices. And I think that's a good one.
20:42Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I was thinking about that when you were saying, I love this framing of fun, fun with problems, just problems. The fun part, you do need to set it up like that's act one of the movie, right? You do need to be like, it was fun to have wine coolers, but don't spend too much time there. Don't make it sound too awesome that you stood in a cemetery with wine coolers every weekend.
21:00Heidi Sandys:Right. And how is it working out? I think you said on an episode talking to kids like the people who I knew in high school who were using drugs heavily didn't get past it. You know, like they didn't end up just having fun. They went to problems like most of the people I know. And I've talked about friends of mine who dabbled in drugs in college and one person went down a rabbit hole from which they needed five years to come back from. Just talking about like how this actually works and what it actually looked like. And like, yeah, there were 15 people I knew who were casual drug users, but two of them ended up in really bad situations.
21:47Heidi Sandys:So what does that look like? I'm going to link to our episode with Dr. Mary Martin, who we just had on. She does an amazing, in the first half of the third section, she talks about talking to teens about drugs and how you lose control. And so you need to be in safe environments if you're going to experiment with drugs and alcohol. She talks about addiction issues and dependency. And it's like, right, you have to talk a little bit realistically about these things, but you have to give the full story. trauma and heavy adult issues. So this is right. Something really bad happened to you in your life.
22:27Heidi Sandys:At what point are you sharing that? Their advice, keep explicit details like intense marital conflict, severe past trauma, more private, provide simple reassuring concepts instead of full disclosure. I'll give you a great example of this. My husband and I were in a very, very bad motorcycle accident early in our relationship. And something came up and we started talking about it. Like, I don't think we've ever told you guys this, but we were in this really bad accident. And I think our kids were like, you know, seven, eight, 10 kind of ages. And oh, yeah. And we got hit by a guy. A dad broke all of these bones.
23:07Heidi Sandys:We were kind of like, oh, my God, it's crazy. We've never told you about this. And then we turned around and two of our kids were crying. And they were like, I'm sad that daddy was hurt. Like, you just forget sometimes that like their development is way behind yours. And the kind of like, I was in trauma is very hard for your kids to hold.
23:28Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I'm thinking about an example of a friend of mine who was sexually assaulted in the lobby of her apartment building. Important information to share, but how you share that and the details you do and don't provide in order for it to be a useful story instead of a traumatizing one.
23:44Heidi Sandys:I think that's this huge ages and stages thing. And sharing the details of our past, I think back in the day, it would have been like, you never mentioned that again to anyone. I mean, I know somebody who was at a friend's house and like major horrible crime occurred, and he got sent home and was never discussed again. Like, I think back in the day, like never talk, but I think be very cautious and careful about handing kids things that are too heavy for them to hold. And even things like this accident for us, I mean, my husband has, you know, metal parts all through his body, but it was okay.
24:30Heidi Sandys:It just, it's not funny and fun for them the first time they're hearing it, like it is for you. Also, my husband was married before, which was an interesting, another interesting bit of information. Like, when do you bring up? Oh, yeah. Dad had a different wife than me. You know, we brought it up so many times now that I don't think my kids would ever remember being told for the first time. And again, like they didn't have kids. They've never kept in touch. It was kind of a starter marriage. They were married for two years. It was it was more like an ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend, but you don't throw these things in in conversation because your kids will be like, I think we should talk about like if you do have something important
25:11Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:to say, like, so I was married before or dad has cancer or whatever, like the way you do have to present something big without traumatizing or upsetting the kids, like how you do walk around that for kids who are maybe a little bit too young to hear something that they need to hear.
25:27Heidi Sandys:Yeah, this is a tricky one. I struggle with when to tell kids about things that might be developing. You know what I mean? Like this could be, let's say like I found a lump. It could be breast cancer or could be nothing. I think I come down on wait until you know what it is. Like don't give them information that is worrisome that may turn out to be nothing. This is definitely how my family of origin operates. And we sometimes joke with each other. It's like, do you think one of our parents like has cancer and just isn't going to tell us until later? You know, I mean, we definitely were kept out of the my parents philosophy was very much will tell you when you need to know.
26:09Heidi Sandys:And I definitely find myself repeating that in my family. Here are some pieces of advice that I thought were youthful. They're from Harvard, so we know they're good. So we're talking about informing your kids about health issues.
26:23Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Okay.
26:24Heidi Sandys:Little kids use short sentences. Say you are sick or hurting. Explain what the doctors are doing to help and stress that your illness is not caused by anything they did. This is a fascinating thing that I unfortunately have firsthand experience with. My children knew a child who was killed by their parent, a really horrendous and horrible event. We went for counseling about it. And the first thing the counselors told us is your child's number one fear is going to be that you are going to kill them. And I was stunned. That would have never in a million years occurred to me. But children center themselves in stories.
27:09Heidi Sandys:And so when you say mom has breast cancer, a child is going to think, what did I do to cause mom to get sick? And that piece I feel like people don't know about and they can skip past. And it so stunned me to learn that information that like children see themselves in the center of stories. And that's something you have to work hard against.
27:37Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Yeah, that you didn't do anything to make mom sick, that you're not, this doesn't mean you're going to get sick. Really lean into like, how is this about me? That's just how their brain is working.
27:47Heidi Sandys:It reminds me of like your funny story about your daughter being the flower girl. And everyone's like, the bride looks beautiful. And she's like, um, I also look beautiful. And it's that's like a funny version. Yeah. But like your friend's mom just died. You're thinking my mom now dies next. Like that is just the way that kids kids are like, I am the center of the universe. And everything that happens is directly related to me and my experiences. So it's really important to get ahead of that. Let's go through when kids get a little bit older right after this.
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28:32Heidi Sandys:Right now, a gloppy lotion would feel way too heavy, but Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum absorbs into my skin instantly, leaving it feeling hydrated instead of, ew, sticky.
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29:07Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum is multi-layer, hyaluronic-powered hydration for the entire body. And right now, we have a special discount just for you. Get 10 % off your first order site-wide with code FRESH at oseamalibu.com.
29:21Heidi Sandys:That's code FRESH at oseamalibu.com. Amy, let me tell you about a magical place that is so exactly designed to be in closed space, year-round fun for the whole family, that I bet you already know what I'm going to say before I even say the name. Let's say it together on three. One, two, three. Great Wolf Lodge. You got it, Amy.
29:47Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:My kids loved Great Wolf Lodge when we went. You probably already know that it has a huge indoor water park with a wave pool, lazy river, a bunch of massive water slides. But then your pack can hit the other attractions because wait, there's more.
30:02Heidi Sandys:Great Wolf Lodge has adventure packed attractions like Magi Quest, a live action game kids can play throughout the lodge, plus the Northern Lights Arcade spent some quality time there. So your kid who loves the Lazy River and your kid who loves fantasy games will both have a great time.
30:18Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Great Wolf Lodge also offers great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties. All under one roof. Unpack the car once and you're settled in to have fun. And with 22 lodges across the country, you're always a short drive away from adventure.
30:32Heidi Sandys:We've both had such great times at Great Wolf Lodge. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more at greatwolf.com and strengthen the pack.
30:49Heidi Sandys:And now, are you connected or too connected?
30:53Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:From the What Fresh Hell podcast. Connected. I know you studied hard and I hope you did well on your math test. Too connected. Just remember, matrix is a rectangular array of number or symbols arranged in rows or columns. This could make or break your chance at Princeton, which is mom's alma mater and our shared dream. Connected. Okay, you and your friends go have fun. Just make sure you make good choices. Be home by ten.
31:20Heidi Sandys:Too connected.
31:21Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:What do you mean you're going out with your friends? I made your favorite dinner. Do you love your friends more than your mommy? Connected. Your girlfriend is adorable. She seems really smart and kind. too connected. You know what? You don't need Lindsay. No one will ever love you like I do. My special boy.
31:45Heidi Sandys:This has been Are You Connected or Too Connected from the What Fresh All Podcast.
31:56Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:When there is distressing news about health and kids are a little older, I mean, I'm thinking about this wasn't my own health, but this was my parents' health. And I know you've had to walk your kids through this too, that a grandparent is very sick and might die. And we were just saying like, you need to wait until you have concrete information you can provide. But in this case, for myself, it was like, things seem really bad. We don't know what's going on yet. I'm out. I'm going to leave. You won't see me for the next two weeks. I don't know. I'm incredibly stressed. Treat me like a tiny baby bird.
32:29Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Your mom needs some support right now because we don't know what's going on and it's an incredibly stressful time for me. And that was all the detail I provided. My kids were teenagers and I felt like they needed to hear that. Like, I might be short tempered with you. I might not know where your cleats are and you got to give me a break for the foreseeable future because here's what we're dealing with.
32:50Heidi Sandys:And I want to underline how hard this is because I know people who've been through it and it is so hard. And you are dealing with, if it's your parent, God forbid it's your spouse, God forbid it's another one of your children, you are not ready to face the fact that this diagnosis is so bad that it might lead to death. And so saying that out loud to someone else is very hard to do. And so their advice is older kids name the condition directly. Not like mom has a boo-boo. It's like mom has breast cancer and that is the disease that can, you know, maybe not. Just mom has breast cancer. This is what we're going to do.
33:31Heidi Sandys:She's going to be in the hospital every third Tuesday. And then for the next three days, she's going to be feeling quite sick and probably sleeping a lot and knowing what to expect, maybe even putting that on the calendar. So it's like our new routine looks like this, meaning whatever information affects them, I think is where you should put your focus. And then in terms of prognosis, keeping them in the loop in terms of the treatment is going very well. This treatment isn't working very well. There's something else they're going to try. And really trying to keep kids in an age-appropriate way looped into what's going on.
34:16Heidi Sandys:And pointing to helpers always. But like Aunt Jane is going to be here the whole time that mom isn't feeling well and she'll be helping you with everything you need. Listen, are we going to get to like nobody cries ever? No, these are terrible things that are developing. With teenagers, share a more complete picture of the diagnosis, treatment plan, long-term outlook, and then checking on their emotional load. And also look for silence. Look for behavior that is communication. after the tragedy that I was talking about, it was really interesting to see the behaviors that came out of that. And a lot of them weren't what you would expect.
35:00Heidi Sandys:I think this is something when you talk about serious illness, be prepared for any reaction. Children may be upset. They may be angry, they may laugh. They may not react at all. They may start playing doctor. They may start playing. I've said this before. When after my mom's funeral, my kids started playing, let's bury each other. It wasn't amazing for me. I'm not going to lie, but it was the way they were processing it. And after the tragedy that I was discussing happened, a lot of kids started playing, let's chase each other around and try to murder each other. And it's hard to watch and it's really disturbing.
35:42Heidi Sandys:They are processing though. And so you don't have to allow things that seem inappropriate or disrespectful. And you can talk about like the kind of reverence we want to observe around certain things, but reactions are going to come out in really weird ways to bad news.
36:01Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:They are. Don't expect your kids to heal you with their completely emotionally reasonable reactions to the stuff that you're trying to manage. Yeah. No, they can respond in strange ways. And I think all you can do, as you said, be curious, like, oh, that's a very interesting
36:19Heidi Sandys:behavior. I think reassuring. And this can also be for what's going on in your marriage, what's going on when mom gets fired from her job. Reassurance always that they're going to be taken care of. And one thing that I find really useful in these situations, this is what we can change and this is what we can't change. So we can't change the fact that mom is sick or we can't change the fact that papa is dying. What we can do is visit once a week with him. What we can do is put together a book of memories. Like what are things we can do and what are things we can't do? Even when people in my life have been ill, it's like, okay, let's make a list.
37:07Heidi Sandys:I know when my mom was sick, you know, well, this is what I want and this is what I don't want. And I'm like, well, let's make a list of what we can change and what we can't change. And I think sometimes that's really helpful to say, we're gonna stare down the realities, but we're not gonna go down a rabbit hole of despair. Like we're going to really say, we can't change the fact that dad lost his job and it's a disaster, but we can keep having dinner every night as a family, no matter what that dinner starts to look like. We can. Can control, can't control. Another thing always in these situations is really ask for help.
37:48Heidi Sandys:This might be a time to get a child psychologist involved, a pediatrician involved, social worker, mental health provider, faith community. This is a time to say if people are coming, you know, when your parent is in hospice and saying, what can I do to help? Maybe come over and just sit with the kids while I take a shower and cry. What are the things that you need help with? We've talked about not putting the onus of help on the person who needs help. which I think is a good idea. I like a designate a friend. Like if I was in this situation, I would call Amy and be like, you're my help coordinator person.
38:29Heidi Sandys:You get your spreadsheets out and be like, here are the things I'm just going to talk to you. You talk to everyone else. I don't want 400 lasagnas dropped off at my door that I then have to figure out whose dishes they are. But I do want twice a week someone to come clean my house. I do want twice a week someone to come take my kids out.
38:46Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I think it's a really good point. There's this notion of grief that one must always comfort in and dump out. Yes. You don't walk into the funeral home and say to your sister-in-law how annoying it was you couldn't find a parking spot outside when it turned out. You know what I mean? A lot of people do. But no, please don't. That's dumping in. You want to comfort in. You can go complain to the, you know, the person outside that you just mad about how there's no parking, whatever you comfort in. Unfortunately, kids, if you're trying to see them, so I have to tell you some very sad news. This is happening or like we're getting divorced or we don't have enough money for you to go to this school this fall or whatever, they're going to shoot the messenger for sure.
39:23Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Even if it's your problem you're bringing to them, they are going to dump out back at you. And so you're right. That is a good time to bring in another adult to help draw fire in some of those times.
39:33Heidi Sandys:Also reaching out to people who've been in similar situations, I think can be really helpful, right? Like whatever that looks like. There are other people who have survived this, whether that's divorce, whether that's whatever bad thing might be going on. A couple of big key rules, Amy, before we depart. Keep routines steady. I think this is really important. And whatever it is, whether it's divorce, the finances are falling apart. Everybody's lost their jobs. Someone has an illness. As much normalcy as you can place around the situation. and then sometimes expressing I know when your dad was dying when my mom was dying it's like guys I'm out like for the next month I don't know when I'm going to be around but then I would ask in my case my husband keep mealtime routine I don't want the kids to feel like when mom comes out of the picture all is lost right it's suddenly like 9 p.m.
40:32Heidi Sandys:Chipotle because dad doesn't know how to make dinner. Like step up. You keep the routines. You get them up in the morning. You get them dressed for school. And if you have a spouse for some reason can't handle that, ask somebody else to help you with it. Keeping your routines. This one's a hard one for us as Irish Catholic ladies, Amy. Show normal emotions. I mean, I don't even have normal emotions, so I can't show them. I'm dead inside.
40:57Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Speaking from experience, if you cry or look sad, your kids may dump out. They may say it's not that big a deal. I don't know what you're so upset about like they might say things that are not helpful when you're expressing vulnerability because they're freaked out by you showing normal emotion but that's okay I don't think that means you shouldn't I'm not a super emotional person but I think I understand that and try then to
41:20Heidi Sandys:give some words to like I feel really sad I feel really lost I feel really nervous not to my kids necessarily. This is a great like family dinner thing where you can talk about this to your husband or spouse in front of your kids. Like, wow, this was really hard. I know somebody who lost their job in a very shocking way. You know, we're kind of fired on a Tuesday and we're just gobsmacked and talked about it at dinner with mostly with her husband. Her kids were quite upset. Like, I've never seen my mom weak, you know, and our kids were like, I'm going to go punch that boss in the face. And it's like, yeah, I feel like that, too.
42:03Heidi Sandys:I feel like that myself. But we have to find other ways to deal with it because that's against the law. No. And then I would say keep the topic open and try not to put kids on the spot. These might be good. What do you call them? Like conversations where you're not making eye contact, like driving conversations or I'm cooking conversations. Yeah.
42:25Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:And the door open.
42:26Heidi Sandys:Right. Leave the door open. But I don't think cornering kids and being like, how do you feel about the fact that Bubby is dying? Like that. It's you're not going to get a great reaction by immediately putting them in when you put them on the spot like that. Their only instinct is like, what does she want me to say? They're not actually accessing like emotions around it.
42:48Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:Yeah. And various. I mean, maybe more when they're three, but not so when they're 20 of like, how does this affect me? Like, where am I in this? And they might not know that right away.
42:58Heidi Sandys:And their reactions really may be bizarre, which I think is something I have been often surprised by. Like, oh, I thought this was going to go to tears and we're running around giggling and punching each other. Taking as much of your own emotionality out of that as possible. And let Let me tell you, it's not easy. Save that for your walk with your friends. Yes. Go walking with your friends. That's the best. Keep those friend walks going, man, because you're going to need them. Amy, I think we solved it. We now know exactly how much to share with our kids and when. I know exactly. Exactly. I'm so glad to have this perfect barometer that I'll consult daily.
43:44Heidi Sandys:Do you know someone who's going through something hard and trying to figure out how to talk to their kids about it? You can share this episode with them. in any app you're listening on, there's a share button on there. Just hit share and send it around. Send it to some friends. That's how we grow our audience.
43:58Evelyn K. K. O'Brien:I mean, word of mouth is the number one way that podcasts find new listeners. You can spend money on all kinds of things, but word of mouth is what grows a show. So thanks for helping us spread the word.
44:08Heidi Sandys:And you have a mouth and you know some words. So let's get to it, people. And with that, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you next time. Thanks, everybody.
44:24Heidi Sandys:Thank you to Osea for sponsoring the show. Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum is multi-layer, hyaluronic-powered hydration for the entire body. And right now, we have a special discount just for you. Get 10 % off your first order site-wide with code FRESH at oseamalibu.com. That's code FRESH at O-S-E-A, Malibu.com.
From the publisher
When is it useful for our kids to hear about our own life experiences—including situations caused by our own bad decision-making?
When does it become oversharing, or get too personal or inappropriate?
We discuss how to know how much to tell our kids, and how to have useful difficult conversations, including:
our own past choices around drinking, drugs, and sexual activity
the family secrets that may be part of our history
traumatic and difficult experiences: how do you get across what's important without giving a child information too heavy for them to hold?
divorce and family conflict: how not to recruit kids into taking sides of adult disagreements
serious illness of a parent, grandparent, or another loved one
Here are links to some of the resources mentioned in the episode:
Our Fresh Take with Dr. Mary Martin
Lori Michas for Grown and Flown: How Much of Your Past Should You Share With Your Teen?
iMom Blog: How Much of Your Past Should You Share With Your Kids?
Lynne Meredith Golodner for MetroParent: Should Parents Tell Kids About Their Past?
Claire McCarthy for Harvard Medical School Blog: How to talk to children about the serious illness of a loved one
What Fresh Hell is co-hosted by Amy Wilson and Margaret Ables.
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website:
https://www.whatfreshhellpodcast.com/p/promo-codes/
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