Is It Normal to Feel Jealous of Other Moms?

19:50Like, what would that look like? Right. And you're going to create that. The way to get out of that isn't stop feeling jealous. Stop. It's taking action on the thing that you wish you had that you don't have. Maybe you can get it. Agree.

20:01Amy Wilson:And I also think that sometimes the advice that revolves around this is very much like, you never know what's going on in other people's lives. And I'm like, I'm going to tell you what, if you have a child who is struggling, let's say with a disability, that takes a lot of your time, a lot of your bandwidth, and you don't have a lot of money, the person who is not dealing with that is probably having an easier time than you. It doesn't mean that person has a perfect life that has no problems. Maybe they hate their husband's dumb face. Maybe they are dead inside in ways you'll never understand.

20:40Amy Wilson:But I don't like that we try to go right to like everyone is equal because you don't really know. Certain things are heavier to carry than other things. And that's not fair. That's right. Focusing more on that other person. She seems happy, but I'm sure she's not. and let me like try to figure out the way she's not happy and like microscope like yeah but they might only be pretending that that's not going to give you the relaxation or the joy that you seek day to day in your own life is trying to figure out how everybody's secretly as unhappy as you I think it's kind of the version of everything happens for a reason like people have a very strong need to make things okay and sometimes what people really need is to look at the harsh realities.

21:24Amy Wilson:You have a child with a chronic illness that is taking maybe 60 % of the time you were given in a day to go to doctor's appointments. It's hard to get this child in and out of a car. Then you spend half your time waiting. You're very worried. That is objectively hard. And I think some people want to go straight to like, God only gives their specialist warriors the biggest problem. Just let it be hard. Say to people like, and say to yourself, this is really hard. We weren't expecting when we had kids for my husband to have to work two jobs and to have a high needs child. And it's summer and it's hot and our air conditioner isn't working and we can't afford to fix it.

22:09Amy Wilson:And I am home alone on Sundays every week. And I look at other families going to the farm, like, it's okay to just take a big like this stinks. It's totally fine, because it does stink. And there may not be any other profound reason for it than life stinks right now for you, you know? And yes, I'm sure you're finding certain joys in the way that your family is dealing with things, you should feel really proud that you're handling the things that are being thrown at you. But that doesn't mean you have to skip the step of this is really, really hard. And I don't feel good. And I'm feeling really beaten down by it.

22:55It's okay to feel that way and greater contentment. I think you're like, I'm jealous. And I don't want to be jealous. It's like I'm discontent. I don't want to be discontent. But greater contentment is not going to come by imagining how other people are secretly as unhappy as you. The comparison is never the way out, even if it's, but her life sucks too. It's probably not true.

23:17Amy Wilson:Right. You know, like there have been seasons of my life where I have been deep in bad trouble. And I am definitely a person who wants everyone to think I'm okay all the time. That is like a definite aspect of my personality. And, you know, from like, I want my exes to think that I'm the happiest person in the world, and I have the best marriage, and I have no cellulite ever. And like, I want to go to the party where I'm going to see them dressed in like, you know, Olivia Newton-John revenge outfit from, you know, Greece. Like, I want to be the person people are jealous of. I want that. It's part of my personality.

24:01Sure, we all, I will admit to that as well. I was gonna say, we all do that. Maybe we don't all do that. But I do that. Sure.

24:06Amy Wilson:Yeah, like putting up a front of I'm doing amazing is something that I work on. And I try to work on and I went out with friends and we've talked about it. I'm not having the greatest time of my life right now. And went out with friends and people said, How are you doing? And I was like, I'm not doing great. I'm really in a place where I'm not doing amazing. Of course, everyone was super supportive. And I will say that's because of external circumstances. I think I'm not doing well right now because something happened. I think I'm not doing well because I failed at something or my child is struggling, is much more vulnerable.

24:46Amy Wilson:You know what I'm saying? Yes. And being able to say like, I'm really worried about my kid, or I'm going to tell you that my child is not doing well. Those vulnerabilities can, I know for myself, I get very protective around that. And I don't lead with like, I'm quite worried about one of my kids that they're not gonna turn out. Okay, I'm actually not talking about one of my kids. And I don't have this feeling. But you know, like, I'm worried that my marriage is failing. Like, that's very different than I'm having a hard time because something tragic happened. And it's that internal vulnerability.

25:24We are afraid to share that. And that's also because of comparison, right? So when you're like, I'm unhappy because I never get a moment to myself. And my friend has a nanny 20 hours a week and she gets to go get her nails done and her life must be so perfect. And, you know, you convince yourself that your life sucks compared to hers. And then it also, I think, then gets in the way of when you have lunch with that friend or you go for a speed walk with that friend. So how are you? How are things going? That you think that you have to tell her everything's fine when it's not because you're comparing yourself to that other person and you want to show up well in that comparison that you're creating, you see what I'm saying?

26:00It also gets in the way of vulnerability. Absolutely.

26:01Amy Wilson:And so I think that the most important first step is radical honesty about what is going on with your own life. And this is from an article called I'm Jealous of My Perfect Mom Friends, anonymous, also interesting, these anonymous articles. And the author is talking about this kind of obsessive jealousy. And she comes to the realization, the root cause of my envy was surprisingly simple. I needed a break. I was bored and burnt out from parenting. I'd been stuck in my house for too long with a sick child. This is why I was becoming enraged when I saw my friends vacationing alone. Finally, I spoke up and asked for help, which I hadn't done before.

26:47Amy Wilson:I told my husband and my friends that I really, really needed a break. And while a Hawaiian vacation was out of the question, we found realistic solutions. For instance, some of my perfect friends were more than willing to babysit. One even shared her nanny with me so I could relax at her house during the afternoon. Jessel says, you know, being angry with herself for the way she looked, her career had stalled, looking longingly at this friend, decided again to turn my focus inward and work on those parts of my life that maybe I neglected. She's focusing inward. Like that's what it has to be. You have to start comparing yourself to other people and you have to start focusing on.

27:25I like this idea that like, yes, I can't go to Hawaii, but I can share a babysitter with a friend on Tuesdays. Yeah. You don't have to stay in that pit of unproductive comparison, comparing and despairing that you can. I don't know what's easy for me to say, But you can, in that position, figure out there's some small action you can take to make yourself feel better, which is worthy.

27:46Amy Wilson:And I would say even before the action, sitting down with a friend, a parent, a sister, a cousin, a spouse, and saying, I am feeling really envious of the people around me. And I am looking around and feeling like everyone has something that I don't have. And I'm feeling whatever I feel about that, depressed, anxious, obsessing, whatever it is, and really verbalizing it. And it's not that you have to put your name on it on the Facebook group, but just saying out loud, I am feeling envious because my child is not able to sit still. And I see all these other moms going to the library and their kids all sit there perfectly while the reading happens.

28:38Amy Wilson:And I have definitely been in the position of having a child who was an outlier and who was not at their age able to participate in, let's say, Mommy and Me music groups in LA with a bunch of very fit, gorgeous, model-looking, perfect moms whose kids behaved a very specific way. and I had a kid who was in the back examining the pattern on the curtains and not like making the choo-choo sounds at the right time and whatever rubric of insecurities that was bringing out in me being not as pretty as the other moms not having been the popular kid in middle school or high school and feeling like these were the popular kids and they were still winning and I was still losing and I was still the outcast and I was still the, like this stuff goes deep.

29:28Amy Wilson:But I think if we focus on the pretty model-y looking moms, we're kind of missing the only thing we can control, which is what is this bringing up for me? And is it real? Like, do I want to be a model mom in LA? And like, by the way, I'm 42 years old and it's not happening. So but just the first step is going to have to be turning the lens from look at all these perfect model moms with their perfect babies and expensive outfits who sit and do the choo choo noise. And here I am once again, the loser outsider chubby girl from eighth grade who nobody likes. And now my kid doesn't even fit in. And that, you know, it's bringing up for me.

30:14Amy Wilson:just a horrible, horrible feeling. Yeah. Yeah. And did you in that moment, is it about like, I wish I looked more like them? I wish I was more like them? Or is it just it's the difference, I think, or the perceived difference that's causing the pain, right? Like if you could snap your fingers and have the same diaper bags as them and have the same kids as them, it's not that you do it. It's like you're feeling judged. I know what you mean. And I'm going to answer your question right after this break. Well, Amy, I'm about to head off for vacation. And even with those hotel hair dryers, I know my hair will be, as you like to say, bouncing and behaving thanks to Nutrafol.

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33:16And now some metrics you can actually use from the What Fresh Help podcast. You put 16 things you absolutely did not need in your cart at Target, but then you came to your senses and took out six of them. I'm going to give you a hearty thumbs up, mama.

33:32Amy Wilson:Your kid watched two times the recommended screens almost every day during the pandemic. But important flip side, you kept them exactly the recommended amount alive. Solid W in your column in my book. That pint of ice cream, you ate it right out of the container while standing in front of the open fridge. It's not like you put it in a bowl and actually enjoyed it. So let's not count it. You watched nine episodes of The Circle on Netflix when you should have been getting some much needed rest. On the one hand, a mistake. On the other hand, some hard-earned me time. Let's put this up as a tie and just move on.

34:12You were 15 minutes late to pick up. Unlike your own mom who forgot to come at all. Twice. That's a little thing we call improvement. High five.

34:23Amy Wilson:Good news. That person giving you unsolicited parenting advice? They have no children and have never spent any time around actual children. You are allowed and encouraged to completely ignore them. This has been some metrics you can actually use from the What Fresh Health podcast.

34:46Amy Wilson:The truth is, I had a child who was struggling and I was very anxious about that struggle and what it meant. And then on top of it, I was living in Los Angeles and because of boring reasons ended up being placed in a school where it was like a Beverly Hills, kind of like housewives thing. And I mean, I was for lots of reasons in a very messy phase of my life. And so I was showing up in like my husband's t-shirt and sweatpants because it was the only thing I could fit into with a child who I felt very vulnerable about their own abilities. And then here was this group of everyone looked exactly the same.

35:32Amy Wilson:Like to me, they look like a block of real housewives of Beverly Hills. Beautiful midriff bearing, legging wearing, giant sunglasses. is everything about them looked like they came from a perfect woman making factory. And I think if it had just been me, I would have been like, you're all shallow losers. I'm unique. But because I had this vulnerable child, it opened up vulnerability lane and it opened up vulnerability portal into my chest. And everything was like, I mean, believe me, there was no world in which I could have ever looked like these women. It's not interesting to me. I've never owned a handbag with a label on it in my life.

36:18Amy Wilson:I carry like a tote bag that says Trader Joe's on it. It's not even like anything about them that I wanted to be. It's just, I don't know, I'm a loser. And somehow my children are losers. Here we go again, middle school. This is it. This is it. I figured it out. It isn't that well, the difference with moms is that they spend more time with moms. No, that's not it. The difference once you become a mom and why you're more prone to this jealousy in comparison is because now you have the kid, you have the whole other vector. It's not just you to feel vulnerable and jealous. It's your kid. And when your kid is struggling, it's the mother's heart, right?

36:54There's struggles for your struggle. That's right. You get rejected. It's the same. So that's why it explodes because you had double the things

37:01Amy Wilson:to feel vulnerable and jealous about. It's that old expression, like having a child is putting your heart, your heart walks outside your body. And it's like walking into a middle school cafeteria with your heart outside your body. It's like, whoa, this is bad. Both of you, right. Now you're both chubby with your trays with nowhere to sit. I also want to say that sometimes people hurt your feelings because they just seem better than you. And sometimes people hurt your feelings because they're trying to hurt your feelings. And that's another thing to clock. I think if I'm going through the world being like I'm chubby and everyone else is thin and everyone's thinking about it, check with yourself.

37:42Amy Wilson:Because I think that this goes to my ex's advice that I always cite as the best advice I ever got. You would be so much calmer if you realized how little anyone else ever thought of you. If you seem happy to people, no one cares what you look like or anything else. But there is a lot of cliquishness in mom groups, too. And so there are times where you're going to the pool and you can see people be like, oh, look at her. What a little bit. Like that is going on. And so I think that's a good thing to clock to. Is this hurting my feelings because I'm projecting something? Or maybe this is hurting my feelings because the cool moms are being mean to me.

38:15Yeah.

38:16Amy Wilson:And those are two different things. By the way, the cool moms who are being mean to you stink. We hate them. But it still hurts your feelings because it is a system designed to hurt your feelings. It exists to hurt your feelings. I always say this to my kids. I'm like, those kids are hurting your feelings because they're trying to hurt your feelings. And like one, two, it's totally fine. It works because why they're trying to hurt your feelings. Yeah. But sometimes you're going in and hurting your own feelings because you're like, oh, everyone else seems happy and I'm not. Are you hurting your own feelings or is someone hurting your feelings?

38:48Amy Wilson:That's the second arrow. Right. The second arrow is you going like and grabbing it and sticking it in your own abdomen when And you either, and I just, I'm like, stop feeling jealous. It isn't that. It's like, feel the jealousy and then don't feel bad that you feel the jealousy. Or then don't feel bad that that mom definitely pretended she didn't see you coming. Like, that's not in your imagination. And I'm not sure that reframing that and wondering why their life sucks too is going to fix it. But taking a tiny, tiny, small step to create a life that gives you more joy is the only way out of this.

39:20Tiny. Yeah. Yeah.

39:20Amy Wilson:And once you recognize what's going on, then you can think about what the fix is. And probably the fix might be like, if it's a tough situation, I've got a child with a chronic disease. I've got a child or myself who's battling cancer. That might be like, I need the tribe. I need to ask for more help. Sometimes it is an issue of perspective. And I think the best writer on this topic on earth is Glennon Doyle, who writes a lot about perspective. And she's very funny. And her writing is very good. I don't think this is always as easy as this. But we've understood that you may need to ask for help, you may need to get more support, you may need to work on this maybe with a therapist.

40:06Amy Wilson:But she talks a lot about perspective in her writing. And I think it can be very helpful and very funny. And she talks about, I read a bunch of her pieces when I was preparing for this. And one of them says, this reminds me of my friend Angela talking about this idea of mom jealousy. She was 20 pounds overweight, but didn't care much. She always wore a bikini to our neighborhood pool. And one day she said, listen, I'm a little fat. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about that because I've got stuff to do. As a matter of fact, with these 7 million kids and a husband and a job, I've got no time for charity work.

40:40Amy Wilson:So to make the world a better place. I wear a bikini to the pool, you know, so other women who do worry about their weight will feel awesome in comparison. No skin off my nose. That's my good deed. Done. Check. And I do think that shifting your perspective and owning a little bit of the thing you're most afraid of can turn some of this around. It cannot turn around not having enough money, a husband who works two jobs and a child with a chronic illness. You cannot perspective your way out of that. You need to try to find solutions to that. And then Glennon Doyle wrote a famous piece, which I think maybe is one of the pieces that really catapulted her to fame about having perspecticals.

41:31Amy Wilson:She talks about putting on your perspecticals, having perspective. And she says, As I lay down to sleep, I remembered this passage from Thoreau's Walden. I say beware of all enterprises that require new clothes and not a new wearer of the clothes. Walden reminds me that when I feel lacking, I don't need new things. I need new eyes with which to see the things I already have. And I think that's true for some situations. There are situations where your perspective change can change everything. I need new eyes with which to see the things I already have, or the things I need, or the things I don't have, but need to create.

42:16Perspectacles can give you that. Yes. Clarity, right? Instead of just, oh, I'll just be grateful the sun came up this morning. That might be cold comfort to you. But being like, okay, I'm gonna stop feeling bad that I feel jealous that other people have more free time than I do. And be grateful that I get to be a mom. Okay, that's step one. And then maybe step two is you figure out how to have some more free time. There's ways out of this besides stop having bad feelings and start having only good vibes.

42:41Amy Wilson:Oh, yeah, it's definitely not good vibes only. It's definitely not. They're not as happy as they seem. Right. Here's the thing, guys, they might be as happy as they seem. They're rich and pretty and have well behaved kids like they probably are happier than you and me and us. But the question is not how do I become more like them? The question is how do I solve the problem that is making me feel bad? And I think that that is where jealousy is completely normal. And comparing yourself to other people is completely normal. And I'm going to tell you comparing yourself to people who have been mean to you is the most normal thing in the world.

43:24Amy Wilson:That thing of I'll show Kim from the second grade that I was never a loser. We all do that because it's completely normal. But Kim from second grade, you're never going to see her again. She doesn't care. Kim from second grade might have genetically been born with a model figure that is conventionally attractive by the standards of the United States. And you may have been born without that. or speaking for someone very close to me, who is me, you might just really like eating a lot of food. You know, like, I don't think there's a world in which looking like a supermodel is available to me. So I better find some other way to achieve happiness, because it's not going to be bikini model.

44:11Compare despair, look within. I need to run. I need something to close this up.

44:16Amy Wilson:Yeah, you compare and despair is good. But also, don't beat yourself up for comparing despair. Like I think that it's Oh, there I go comparing again, the most natural thing in the world. There it goes. Yeah. And I think that sometimes giving voice to this is good. Like, God, I feel really jealous of her. I feel really jealous of her just saying that out loud. And people may say to you, like, that's ridiculous. You're just as pretty as her. You're I bet she's miserable. I bet her husband hates her guts. No, I just really feel jealous of her. I feel jealous of people whose lives seem easier. And also like, I feel jealous of people who have money because I spend a lot of time worrying about money or I feel jealous of people whose kids aren't sick because having a sick kid is wearing me down to the bone.

45:05Amy Wilson:Like, of course you do. It's okay. I know you were looking for a rhyme, but I don't think comparing despair is it. I think like comparing is fair. Is it, you know, like this feeling isn't scary and it isn't wrong and it isn't bad. And the answer is not just put on your perspecticals, although it's funny and good sometimes. And it's not no one is really as happy as they seem. It's just what's wrong. What's making me feel this way? Is it fixable? If it's not fixable, is it a season? And if it's not fixable, can I find? Class is now in session. And the UPS Store is here to help you ace arriving on campus.

45:48Amy Wilson:Our certified packing experts can pack everything you need, from desktops to decor. Plus, when you pack and ship with us, you get our exclusive pack and ship guarantee. Your items arrive safe or your money back. Restrictions and limitations apply. To get a 20 % off packing coupon and for full details, visit the upsstore.com slash packing. find some people to help me carry it i think is the right thing to feel yeah and also maybe because i definitely because we host a parenting podcast sometimes have people be like how do you have all the answers your kids must be so happy oh you're a parenting expert and first of all we never claim to be parent experts we're not parenting experts but i definitely have had people vocalize that to me and i'm like yeah that is the farthest thing from the truth talk to my kids for two seconds while I just fed them Froot Loops for dinner.

46:39Amy Wilson:So like, maybe you are projecting some of this. Some of it may not be true. Awesome. Well said. Well, we solved it. Nobody ever has to feel jealous of anybody ever again. Solved it, guys. All, all set. And as we said at the beginning, please rate and review the podcast if you haven't already. We are climbing towards a thousand reviews on Apple Podcasts, aren't we, Amy? Yeah, we are like 991 or something. We're so close. And a magic thing happens. A magic thing happens when you get to a thousand. Yeah. Come on, guys. Eight people review the podcast. Yeah. Don't be jealous. And basically... Don't be jealous of us.

47:17We have almost a thousand reviews.

47:19Amy Wilson:When you get to a thousand reviews, you never have another problem again. And I become a swimsuit model. So please do it. Thanks, everybody. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks for listening.

47:36Thank you.