In short
How parents should talk to children about tragic, scary events they may hear about (e.g., floods, school shootings, deaths), using “ages and stages,” answering only what kids ask, and helping kids process emotions through play and conversation rather than lessons or minimizing.
Guests
No named guests appear in the transcript. The hosts are Margaret and Amy. The episode references expert sources and interviews (e.g., Genevieve Kingston’s book Did I Ever Tell You?, and an episode with the hosts’ educator sister-in-law), but no additional on-air guests are clearly identified.
Key claims
There’s no way to fully shield kids; TV/news exposure means kids will learn anyway. Don’t dismiss or shut down fears; honor questions and “buy time” if you don’t know what to say. Kids process trauma via play and may express emotions unexpectedly. Avoid “lesson/what did we learn?” immediately after.
Notable examples
Kerrville, Texas July 4th floods; Newtown (2012); Uvalde; 9/11; Charlotte’s Web (Charlotte’s death); Lion King (Mufasa death) upsetting a toddler; Atlanta child murders; a child fearing a grandparent will die; a child’s classmate murdered; Travis Scott concert crush.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VONavigating Difficult Conversations with Kids
1:06 to 2:10
Discussing how to talk to children about distressing events.
“Hello, everyone, and welcome to What Fresh Hell?”
Personal Experiences with Tragedy
2:10 to 4:24
Sharing personal stories of dealing with tragedies around children.
“Although one of the articles that we're going to talk about is actually about talking to your kids about the floods.”
Foundational Conversations with Kids
4:24 to 6:10
Importance of having ongoing discussions with children about difficult topics.
“Because if mom isn't OK, then nobody's OK.”
The Role of the Parent in Crisis
6:10 to 8:16
Exploring how parents can guide children through distressing news.
“Like, of the things you could imagine happening, it was just so far off of it.”
Understanding Kids' Responses to Bad News
8:16 to 9:34
Understanding how children process distressing information and how parents can support them.
“This is different because I think when it involves children in jeopardy or bad things happening to kids like Uvalde, right, or Newtown or this, that it's more likely the kids are going to talk about it.”
Balancing Protection and Reality
13:58 to 14:20
The challenge of protecting children while also preparing them for the real world.
“Margaret, I have been loving my new tortoise shell Zenni glasses.”
Talking to Young Kids About Bad Events
15:43 to 16:49
How to approach discussing distressing events with young children.
“And so we're going to link to a couple of articles from some experts.”
Understanding Children's Emotional Responses
16:49 to 19:19
Exploring how children process emotions through stories and play.
“But if they're seeing the blaring news coverage of it, they're finding out anyway.”
Family Discussions on Tragedy
19:19 to 23:22
The importance of family conversations about difficult topics and emotions.
“You know, that's not something you force in the kid.”
Kids Expressing Grief and Humor
23:22 to 26:28
Recognizing and accepting children's varied responses to grief.
“Because especially with like, well, my friend broke his leg riding.”
Show all 16 chapters
Kids Expressing Grief and Humor
27:16 to 28:28
Recognizing and accepting children's varied responses to grief.
“Amy, let me tell you about a magical place that is so exactly designed to be enclosed space, year-round fun for the whole family, that I bet you already know what I'm going to say before I even say the name.”
Navigating Children's Fears
28:33 to 31:46
Discuss how to help children confront and express their fears about death and safety.
“I think that if kids are like, sit down, stop telling jokes.”
The Importance of Open Conversations
31:46 to 37:21
Explore why it's crucial to openly discuss difficult topics with children.
“There may be kids who are like, I cannot handle thinking about it.”
Collective Grief and Support
37:21 to 41:52
Learn about the importance of community support during difficult times.
“And you're like, what do I even say to this kid?”
Introduction to Episode Theme
42:00 to 42:45
Exploring how to communicate with kids during tough times.
“of their auto customers earn at least one discount.”
Introduction to Episode Theme
42:48 to 43:00
Exploring how to communicate with kids during tough times.
“Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans.
0:30Amy Wilson:Hi, everyone. It's Margaret. This week, we're talking about how to talk to our kids when we don't know what to say. And in the course of this conversation, which starts by talking about the Kerrville floods, we talk about a lot of events that we have been through that have been in the news that might be very upsetting for young kids, even older kids. And so this might be an episode that you don't want to listen to with your kids in the room, although hopefully it has some helpful information on how to deal with these issues. Thanks for listening.
1:06Amy Wilson:Hello, everyone, and welcome to What Fresh Hell? Laughing in the Face of Motherhood. This is Margaret. This is Amy. Today, we're going to talk about what to say to our kids when we don't have a clue what the right thing is to say. So this conversation, you probably heard in our pre-roll, I was recently in Kerrville, Texas, my husband's hometown, for July 4th when the devastating floods hit that area. As we're recording this, they are continuing to search and doing recovery efforts there. I had my kids with me. We were staying in an area that was up in the hills, so we were very far removed from the floods themselves.
1:45Amy Wilson:but Kerrville is not a large town. It's probably 25 ,000 people. And like the area we were going to go for the fireworks and everything was impacted by the floods, just being in this town as this devastation came through. And my kids are now older, they're teenagers. So we're going to talk a lot about ages and stages, not just specific to the floods. Although one of the articles that we're going to talk about is actually about talking to your kids about the floods. But it just seemed like a good time to visit the topic of when we find ourselves in situations. And, you know, we've all been in these situations where something devastating happens, whether it's a school shooting or a weather event or a death within the family.
2:36Amy Wilson:Not to skip to part three right in the beginning, Amy, but I think we have to be having a lot of foundational conversations so that we're not only talking about bad things when they happen. And like, how are we building skills in our kids so that when unexpected, tragic, scary, and sad things happen, we feel able to be our kid's guide through those things. And I think it's especially difficult. And I mean, I dealt when my mom died, I had a lot of this feeling. It's happening to me and the kids. You know, if something happens to your kids, I think that being their guide maybe is a little bit easier.
3:19Amy Wilson:You're outside of it. But when things are happening to you that you have to guide your kids through, it's a whole different ballgame, right? The kids are watching you experience the thing to calibrate how concerned they should be. And I was not in Texas when these horrible events happened, but I was extremely invested for two reasons. One is my connection to you and your personal connection, but also because it involved children and missing children. And it was, I couldn't put my phone down, you know, for the whole 4th of July break with family visiting and whatever. I couldn't stop checking that was there going to be a bit of good news, right?
3:58Or have they found everybody? Or is it a little better now or whatever? And I could see some irritability from my family members, like, stop with that. And I just felt like I couldn't. And again, my kids are not five and seven. I didn't have to put on a brave face for them. But I remember that difficulty. Say in Newtown, for example, which was in 2012, my kids were pretty little then and me carrying around this like, holy cow, this absolutely horrible thing happened that I'm hiding in the bathroom to cry about and then have to come out and make dinner for the kids. Because if mom isn't OK, then nobody's OK.
4:30Amy Wilson:Well, and I think I mean, obviously, I've been thinking about this and talking about this a lot since the fourth that people have we've said this a lot. People have operating systems. You know, nobody is just doing life. You know, it's like a computer. It doesn't turn on. It needs an opera. I mean, you could turn it on and it's like code. You need an operating system that is Windows or Mac that lets you. That's how you actually present the data, you know, in the world, how you function. And I think when bad things happen, people's operating systems respond very differently. There are people who are like, breaking news.
5:10Amy Wilson:Here's what's going on. Like there's the reporter kind of person. Sometimes there's the person who's withdrawn, you know, and like maybe doesn't want to hear any of the news and is like, no, no, no, I need to turtle shell in and protect myself from this information. there might be people who respond by being like jovial or joking about it. And I think with kids, kids often respond in ways that are very unexpected, especially younger children who don't have language. So I've talked before about we had an incredible tragedy that happened in our town when my kids were in middle school. And I won't go into the details of it, but one of my children's classmates was murdered.
5:52Amy Wilson:And it was the kind of thing, much like this flood, where you're like, I have not prepared for this. Like, I may have prepared for like, well, one grandma died. That's very sad. And we know that old people die. But this was so off anyone's rubric. You know what I mean? Like, of the things you could imagine happening, it was just so far off of it. I mean, And I could not. And I kind of knew the rules, like say what really happened. And I've talked about it before on the podcast. I went to wake up my six or seven year old, whatever she was at the time and say it to her. And I could not get the words out of my mouth.
6:33Amy Wilson:And then I sent her to school, probably not as prepared as she should have been, because I think the key is that we've said this before. Kids will get their information from somewhere. And if you skirt the responsibility, you kind of have to ask yourself the hard question. Do I want to be the person to say this? Or do I want a seven-year-old to be the person who explains this to them? Because they're going to get better information from me, but it is really hard. Like I remember talking about 9-11 with my kids. 9-11 happened maybe, is it 25 years ago, 30 years ago? It's a long time ago. 24 years ago in September.
7:12How does that is for me to believe?
7:13Amy Wilson:Way before my children were born, way before I met their father. I mean, I'm like, what am I going to just on Tuesday bring up 9-11 and be like, by the way, like people hijacked passenger planes and killed all these people. And like, I think these very horrifying events are in a special category of like, you know, it reminds me of the poem Good Bones by Maggie Smith. And we'll put a link to that poem. And she says, like, for every bird, there is a stone thrown at a bird. But I keep this from my children. The whole poem is like, the world is a terrible place, but I keep that from my children. It's a beautiful poem.
7:53Amy Wilson:You should read it. We'll link to it. Yes. And I think that is partly our job. I mean, that's why this is hard. Like, it is supposed to be, you are not supposed to be sitting around the table with your children, as you say, now being like, now 75 are missing. Now 90 are missing. You are not there to share with them the worst of what happened. And that's more important the closer it is to your family, I think. Right. But on the other hand, you can't not tell them that that something happened that they need to know about. I guess, do they need to know? This is different because I think when it involves children in jeopardy or bad things happening to kids like Uvalde, right, or Newtown or this, that it's more likely the kids are going to talk about it.
8:31And it is just a special kind of horrible, like what happened in your town. Like this isn't supposed to happen. Kids are supposed to go to school and be fine. kids are supposed to go to camp and then come home.
8:40Amy Wilson:Yeah. And it's special, special kind of terrible. I think we have a very deeply, possibly biologically, I don't even understand the biology to understand it, but like protecting our children is so deeply ingrained in our bones, right? That like I keep my children safe in the world. My therapist sometimes uses the metaphor of castle walls that like, if we're all inside the castle walls, anything that happens outside the castle walls is okay because we are safe inside the castle walls, but people will fire arrows into the castle walls at some point. And so you really can't just keep making the walls higher and higher.
9:16Amy Wilson:Like it is an impossible feat to just be like, I will keep my little fivesome safe in the world. The world is going to come in at some point and in ways that you are completely unprepared for and in ways that you do not understand. And my sister-in-law, who's kind of my, she's an educator and extremely knowledgeable about child development and like has read all the books and runs a school. And she's kind of my North Star when I have like, okay, what should I do about this? I call her, we had her on the podcast. We can link to that episode as well. But I called her when this thing happened, when my daughter was in second grade and she was like, I got nothing.
9:57Amy Wilson:I don't even know where to begin to start with that. Like, there are certainly things that happen that, you know, why she doesn't have anything? Because there's no good way to tell something that tragic to a six or seven year old. It's just like, I think that part of what we start with is accepting that there is no way to keep the world away from your children fundamentally. And that hopefully you will not deal with something shocking and tragic that affects children in your life. Like, hopefully not. But I think the idea of the castle walls, it has its role to be like, yes, we are safe here in our hearth together and we protect each other.
10:42Amy Wilson:But we also have to be like, the world is out there and we have to think about it both because it's going to come in anyway. And I think also because we're part of a society and like, can we help the world? In the Rapunzel fairy tale, the witch is a bad guy because she's keeping Rapunzel locked up in the castle away from the world. Right. Safe. And you're not going to leave because nobody can have you and then your life will be perfect. But we're definitely not supposed to do that. But that's exactly right. Like Rapunzel is the version of that fairy tale is I'm going to lock you in a tower forever so that nothing bad ever happens.
11:17Amy Wilson:And as you said, that's not a like great job, mom. You did it. That's like the mom is a witch, literally. Right. Right. Don't you know what's out there in the world? And no, she doesn't because you've never let her outside. Right. And that's yeah, that's not the parent we're aiming for. But we're also don't want to. And again, like once my kids are teenagers, I think it's OK if they see me crying about the families in Texas and what they've lost. I think that's OK for them to see. But it's different when your kid is four and the TV was on a grandma's house and they heard that, you know, they saw the belongings in the mud and they're frightened now and they can't sleep.
11:51Like sometimes you can decide you're going to protect your kid from something. And then, as you say, like the arrows get in over the wall anyway. Yeah.
11:58Amy Wilson:And I think to a certain degree, and I mean, I'm an anxious person and I have a very specific kind of anxiety and I have worked on this in therapy. I think sometimes the more you just keep building the walls, the scarier it feels. It starts to feel like it's like the M. Night Shyamalan movie where they're like locked in the forest because something terrifying is out there. Right. And then I can't remember kind of what the punchline is, but basically like they're doing it to themselves. And I think that that is something that I've had to work on personally that like I can kind of get with my own anxiety, like never see bad news, never expose yourself to anything bad because then somehow it touches you and that's bad.
12:41Amy Wilson:And I think that one of the important things is how are we exposing our kids? And I think one of the keys to that, which we'll talk about after this break is ages and stages. Let me tell you, summertime is when you realize just how dehydrated your skin really is. That's why Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum has been amazing for me to use this summer. Amy couldn't agree more. Right now, a gloppy lotion would feel way too heavy, but Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum absorbs into my skin instantly, leaving it feeling hydrated instead of, ew, sticky. Osea's Hyaluronic Body Serum delivers deep hydration for the body.
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15:42Amy Wilson:So crucially, I think what to say when you have no idea what to say to kids, which is what we're talking about is ages and stages. And so we're going to link to a couple of articles from some experts. And let's talk about young children, say four and under, maybe five and under, depending on where your kids are developmentally. okay to not introduce unless they are directly affected. And I think that that probably makes sense. Like, you don't need to be like, I want to talk to you about a tornado that happened in some state that we've never been to and how it affected those people. Like, you don't need to be talking to kids who really can't understand what's going on and introducing information.
16:32Yeah. And I would argue if your kids do spend time, your young kids spend time in households where the TV is always on in the background, that that's something worth revisiting. Because I agree, there's no reason for a four-year-old to know that something very upsetting happened 12 states away that doesn't affect them at all and couldn't. But if they're seeing the blaring news coverage of it, they're finding out anyway. I think that is okay to protect them from that stuff.
16:56Amy Wilson:Protect them from, you don't need to bring them information, but I also think at this age. And there's so many books and TV shows and episodes of Bluey or whatever they happen to be watching about sad things happening to people. I saw a TikTok the other day of a, I mean, a baby. This baby was maybe like 13, 14 months old, a little baby watching The Lion King, the scene where Mufasa dies, falls into the pit. And this baby's lips start shaking. It was the little Simba is that his name Simba finding Mufasa and crying over his body and this little baby was watching this and like the lip was shaking and like then they just started crying I mean historically fairy tales tales for children have been like extremely gruesomely violent like Cinderella which is like you can't fit your feet in the shoe in the original version the sisters are cutting pieces of their feet off and trying to shove them into the shoe.
18:03Amy Wilson:Right. And it's the trail of blood that gives them away. Right. And the little mermaid dies in this story. She turns into seafoam because the guy abandons her. And I think that instinctively we have had. And I also think that like life in many ways has gotten safer, you know, in my grandmother's generation. If you had 13 children, four or five of them died before the age of 10. Two or three of them died before the age of five. Like you were confronting. It's kind of like you used to live in a farm, so you didn't have to have the birds and the bees talk with kids because the farm animals were doing it for you, you know, like, oh, see, that's how a baby gets made.
18:44Amy Wilson:But as we disconnect a little bit from things, it's not always a great thing that kids aren't exposed to anything but like joyfulness. Well, I think like I'm thinking about when Charlotte dies in Charlotte's Web. Right. Beautiful book. The audio book is read by E.B. White himself. It's amazing. And the animated movie from the 70s is hilarious and beautiful. And I think that that is we don't need to make sure our kids never see the part where Charlotte dies in Charlotte's Web because it's helping them understand, safely experience these emotions from a safe distance. But I was going to say, if you have a kid who then that night can't sleep and then the next night is still talking about Charlotte died, then OK, then you don't have to now walk them through the 10 other great cartoon movie desks.
19:30You know, that's not something you force in the kid. No, but I do think it's OK if they're OK with it.
19:35Amy Wilson:I also think this is somewhere that family dinners can play a huge role. I grew up in a family that had family dinner every night. I mean, we were really expected at the table at night. That might not be realistic for everybody, but whether it's family car trips or if you have a pool, like you're all hanging out in the pool, like whatever times you find yourself as a family. My parents would sit at the table and discuss what was going on in the world, wars that were going on. It was just part of the dining room conversation, like what is going on in the world? And because what is going on in the world makes me very anxious, I find that I don't talk that much about my kids.
20:16Amy Wilson:And one of the stories, this was years ago, Travis Scott, who my kids are like, that's their generation musician, had a concert and people were crushed at the concert. I don't remember how many people, but a number of people were killed at this concert. And I heard my kids talking about it. And they were probably, I don't know, maybe say 11, 12, 13. They were older. They weren't little kids. But kids are hearing about things. Like, I think the concept that you are protecting your kids from the news is a short road. What am I trying to say? Like, it's a short-term solution. And that is going to come catch you at some point, I would say.
20:55So by the time the kids are school age, you do want to be having these conversations with them. You do want to see if they have questions. You might want to bring up an event. Had they heard about it at school? Is anybody talking about it and what had they heard and see what they've heard and ask them? I mean, bring it to them.
21:11Amy Wilson:Yeah. And I think if it's a big enough news story, you can bring it up. Our kids talking about what happens, you know, here or there. And sometimes they'll say no and move on and they're not interested. And sometimes they'll say, oh, yeah, I heard about it. And they're not super affected. I think it's very hard to know how your kids are being affected by certain things. And I find that I sometimes have a little bit of an instinct to be like, are you still thinking about that? Remember this terrible thing that happened? Are you still thinking about like that doesn't seem right? The other thing I want to say about young kids, which I saw very clearly when my young children faced this very unique tragedy, kids express themselves through play.
21:55Amy Wilson:And sometimes that play can be very disturbing. So, for example, when a parent dies or something, let's say your parent dies, their grandmother dies. you may find young kids being like you be grandma and you lay down and I'm going to put the dirt on top of you or I'm going to put a pillow over you or when this tragedy happened with my young children the kids on the playground were often playing like I'm going to murder you I'm going to chase you around and our instinct very strongly is to be like stop doing that it's inappropriate It's disrespectful. But this is often how kids process trauma. And I remember knowing young kids during 9-11.
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22:37Amy Wilson:And I had a young person in my life who was quite young at the time. And she called me on the day. And she was like, ha ha. Can you believe how stupid those hijackers were? Like they thought they were going to get off those planes. And now they're dead. Like, ha ha. And I was like, okay. okay somehow her brain was like it's not really that bad because the hijackers got theirs in the end you know like they thought they were going to be safe but they weren't somehow that's how her brain was processing it and i think allowing kids to talk and allowing them to process through play or out loud and for me i know a big thing is not moving right to like what's the lesson here What have we learned?
23:23Amy Wilson:Because especially with like, well, my friend broke his leg riding. It's like, did we learn like not to ride too fast on your bike? Like, just let kids process. Like, don't jump to the lesson. Don't jump to the correction. Like, don't correct. Yeah. No, it's not weird. Let it. Amy, you just said it. Hashtag let it be weird. I interviewed Genevieve Kingston for a fresh take recently. Her book is called Did I Ever Tell You? And it's about growing up without her mom. And we talked about in the fresh take that when her parents sat them down, as they did a few times during her childhood, her and her brother to say, so listen, we need to talk about mom's cancer.
24:02It's back. It's progressed. And she tells one story in the book about how her parents were like, so we need to sit down. And she knew what it was as a five, six year old. She knew like, oh, this is one of those talks that I don't like. And she wouldn't stop telling jokes like she was telling knock knock jokes. And right. She said my brother would kind of fall asleep usually. And I would get like woo and get really wound up and start running around the house. And she said that her parents understood that. Like she looks back and I'm like, I can't believe I did that. But that her parents let her do it because she was processing.
24:33Amy Wilson:I had a friend when I was very young, probably fifth or sixth grade, whose father died of cancer. and he was very sick and we spent a lot of time together. And at one point we were doing something and we started kind of making jokes about the fact that her dad had cancer and was bald. And like, we started laughing hysterically. Like we were in tears. We were laughing so hard about it. And maybe I'm conflating things, but I feel like after that, we never really spoke to each other again. Like we, it was like we had done something bad and secret And I think that letting kids know that like any emotion that comes up is OK.
25:14Amy Wilson:We were at a funeral for a person who had died very, very young and they had young children at the funeral and it was outside. And the youngest child was with her friends kind of off to the side, like playing. There was a lot of music and they were like dancing to the music and kind of playing and climbing up and down a tree. And then the kind of active part of the funeral was, you know, far enough away. They weren't being distracting, but they were just playing on the side. They were young kids. And someone, I think the mom posted a picture later and it just said underneath the adults cried and the children danced.
25:53Amy Wilson:And it's that's what the funeral was. You know, that's what it was. And I think that sometimes we have this instinct of you have to sit here in your tie in that kind of like Princess Diana funeral way of making those two young boys walk for a mile in black ties behind the coffin. Like, whatever. I don't have any opinion. Royal family, you do you. But letting kids express and accept tragedy and sadness in whatever way they do. it can be really, really hard. I understand why it's hard. Like, why are you telling knock-knock jokes when dad is dying? It's like trying to meet kids where they are with this knowledge is, I understand why it's really hard, but I think it's really, really valuable.
26:40There's another way we need to meet kids where they are. And we'll take a break and we'll talk about that. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.
27:16Amy Wilson:Amy, let me tell you about a magical place that is so exactly designed to be enclosed space, year-round fun for the whole family, that I bet you already know what I'm going to say before I even say the name. Let's say it together on three. One, two, three. Great Wolf Lodge. You got it, Amy. My kids loved Great Wolf Lodge when we went. You probably already know that it has a huge indoor water park with a wave pool, Lazy River, a bunch of massive water slides. But then your pack can hit the other attractions because, wait, there's more. Great Wolf Lodge has adventure-packed attractions like MagiQuest, a live-action game kids can play throughout the lodge.
27:58Amy Wilson:Plus, the Northern Lights Arcade spent some quality time there. So your kid who loves the Lazy River and your kid who loves fantasy games will both have a great time. Great Wolf Lodge also offers great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties. All under one roof. Unpack the car once and you're settled in to have fun. And with 22 lodges across the country, you're always a short drive away from adventure. We've both had such great times at Great Wolf Lodge. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more at greatwolf.com and strengthen the pack. The pendulum can swing the other way, too.
28:35I think that if kids are like, sit down, stop telling jokes. And I'm trying to tell you this very serious and sad thing. There can also be kids. I'm thinking of one of my many, many, many nieces and nephews who has been expressing fears recently that a grandparent will die. And it's because other grandparents have died. So now this kid is getting fixated. And what if you die next? And, you know, my relatives who are involved with this are very invested in the right way to help this kid feel better. and experts would say the not right way to make this kid feel better is to say, why are you worrying about that?
29:09Stop worrying about it. Don't worry about it. Right. I'll never, I'll never die. It's fine. Right. That this is not something you should be worried about. You're okay. You know, I don't want to hear that from you. That shutting down a kid trying to express appropriate or inappropriate fears and anxieties, not inappropriate, I mean, inappropriately applied fears and anxieties. We shouldn't shut them down. Such a good point.
29:29Amy Wilson:When I was young, I mean, very, very young, there was this event, the Atlanta child murder. Someone was killing children in Atlanta. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I was obsessed with it. Obsessed, frightened, scared to death. Because if you were alive during then, it was like, is your back door unlocked right now? Because you might be next, even though you didn't live in Atlanta. It was truly like the worst case scenario. like and then at night you know god bless it it was the 80s and they would be like the atlanta child murders and you're like what the hell is an atlanta child murder but what i don't like it and i'm terrified i was obsessively terrified about it and i can clearly remember my parents at some point sitting me down and being like we want to talk to you about this and i'm like i don't want to talk about i don't want to talk about it because of course talking about it somehow meant I was going to be next.
30:20Amy Wilson:And they were like, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid of what's going that this is going to happen to you? And I didn't really know the answer. And then they were sort of like, this is scary because it's a scary idea that could happen to anyone, that there's anyone out there who would ever hurt a child is a scary idea. But let's get out the map and show you where Atlanta was and here. But don't be afraid to really talk about it. And this is something that I still work on with my therapist all the time. Let's talk about what would happen if that does happen. And that can feel very counterintuitive.
30:58Amy Wilson:You're afraid your grandparent is gonna die. Let's talk about that. Okay, which grandparent are you worried about? Let's talk about what would happen if Nana died, if Bubby died. Let's say it out loud because I think partly it's not as scary if we talk about it really. What is it that you're afraid of? And then let's walk through it. It probably also makes you scared to think about what if I died? I don't think that's going to happen. I'm healthy. I don't think there's, you know, statistically the likelihood of me dying is low. But also your friend's mom died three years ago and they didn't expect that to happen.
31:34Amy Wilson:Let's talk about what it would look like if I died. We would have dad to take care of you. We would have all these other people to take care of you. We could read some books about it. And I think the instinct to lean out is probably not right. And you know your kid. There may be kids who are like, I cannot handle thinking about it. But I am a big believer that this is very true for me, that the idea of the wolf outside the door is much scarier than opening the door and being like, let's look at the wolf. It has sharp teeth. It's extremely scary. It's mangy. But if we look at it and stare at it, we won't be as scared of it.
32:13So the lesson there is if the kid comes to you with something, right, we're no longer talking as much about these examples about, oh, no, I hope I didn't hear on the news about the tornado. Right. This is like the kid coming to you. What if this happens to me or the Atlanta child murderer might come and get me, even though we live time zones away. Right. There's one form of answer that's pretty easy. It's not dismissing. Your parents weren't dismissing your concerns. They were honoring your concerns while also showing you it is pretty far from here. And it's right in the name. I think they're going to stick to the Atlanta area.
32:43Right. You're probably, strictly speaking, safe without minimizing it or laughing at you. But then that's not really available to you when the child is like, well, grandpa died and what if grandma dies now, too? You need to answer that question. And it seems to me, as you're saying this, if they see you hold that responsibility calmly, not dismissively, but also not upset, how could you say such a thing? That's terrible to even talk about such things. You're holding that question calmly. It will help them feel more calm, too, that this is a thing that can be breathed into existence and will all still exist.
33:14Amy Wilson:I'm going to quote Danielle S. McLaughlin to you from her article, Having Difficult Conversations with Our Kids, which we will link to. In order to actually engage our children, we need to find out what it is they already know and what they are seeking to understand. And I think that that is super important. My sister-in-law always says, only answer the questions you're asked. The example is, what is AIDS? I just heard that word. It's like, it's a disease. It was in the 1980s. It killed a lot of people. And now they have a lot more treatments for it. And answer the questions that ask. Do you have any more questions about that?
33:53Amy Wilson:What brings that up for you? What did you see? Get really curious about what it is. And then I also think it's interesting to me always what kids aren't processing. I put my daughter on a bus to camp yesterday after having come home from Texas and got in my car and was hysterically crying just for an hour. Like I could not write the ship for myself thinking about Texas and, you know, the kids who are lost and the idea of sending your kids somewhere and something terrible happening to them. And I probed a little bit for my daughter and I don't think that was there for her. I mean, I didn't introduce, are you worried about going to camp?
34:34Amy Wilson:So I think that you do have to be a kind of a good detective here. I definitely don't want to introduce to her, aren't you scared to go to camp because something terrible happened at a camp? I don't want her to take that on if she's not thinking about it. But I don't want to leave things unsaid if I think she is worrying about it. And so I do think that you have to you really have to kind of probe around this and open up conversations and kind of see where they go. And I think it's also very important to remember that kids often put themselves in the center of the story. So like the Atlanta child murders was happening to me.
35:13Amy Wilson:It was a story about me. I mean, maybe some people would argue I still do this in my midlife, but especially children. And they are thinking things. I was talking to somebody once about a murder that had happened in his town where the father killed his children. This was probably in like the 1980s. You know, he was a young kid. And back then, literally, they sent him to school the next day and nobody discussed it. It was like a very, very close friend of his. And he got a knife from the kitchen and slept with it under his bed for the next three years because as a very young child, he then thought, well, my father is going to kill me next.
35:52Amy Wilson:That is the story of this for him. And I think most of us could never imagine that our kids would be afraid of us. But if something happens that alters their understanding of the universe, it is very, very important to remember that kids are like, yesterday, I didn't imagine this, but now I think that parents kill children, you know, or now I think that people who go swimming in a pool drowned. Like whatever bad story they hear, especially younger kids, it's good to leave very open ended conversations because what is scaring them about it might really surprise you. Because I'm sure this person's father would have been like, what are you talking about?
36:37Amy Wilson:I've only ever hugged you and done nice things to you. Why would you ever think that I would or that person's dad left their family, you know, for another lady? My dad might do that. It's like, well, that's fine. Like, dad doesn't even go anywhere. Like, where's he going to meet someone? Like, it feels very foreign to you. But that's another important thing to remember. Kids put themselves in the story. And that can feel really, really scary to feel like what happens if and we're out of control of these things. And sometimes you are out of control. Like, what happens if something really bad and out of control happens?
37:15Amy Wilson:I don't know. How am I supposed to help you know? Right. Well, in that moment, I wanted to make sure we got to this bit of advice because I think it's sort of the best advice for all of these situations is say, let's continue this example. Is dad going to kill me right now? And you're like, what do I even say to this kid? It's okay to pause. It's okay to say, tell me more about that. It's okay to say, well, let me think about that for a second. It's okay to say all of those things and buy yourself time because what you're not doing is minimizing the kid's concern or dismissing it and you're not ramping up either.
37:47You're scrambling for purchase. What am I going to say in response to this kid? And maybe you don't know, but even just saying, hmm, that's a really hard question. Let me think about the best way to answer that. Even that is helping your kid by being with them, meeting them in that moment.
38:02Amy Wilson:And I think another part of that is, which I think I'm bad at, and I have thought, a lot about is there's nothing too scary to say out loud. There's nothing too scary to say. I struggle with that. You know what I mean? Like when my mom was sick, it's like one of my kids was like very little. And so they were like, Mom, I think grandma might be a goner. Oh, God, what a thing to say. But in some ways. Yeah, that's right. That's what's going to happen. Grandma is going to die. That's right. That's how that kid was walking towards this big, scary thing that they were feeling, right? Like, I'm going to kind of make this weird joke about it, because that's how I know how to process it.
38:40Yeah. And that you weren't like, how dare you say something like that?
38:43Amy Wilson:You were like, yeah, and there's nothing. I mean, I literally can feel it in my shoulders. Having had this conversation, I have a really kind of gross feeling in my neck and shoulders. Just I don't want to think about, you know, bad things and people killing kids. And I don't want to think about any of these things. It's awful. Like, I literally have that physical feeling in my bones right now. But I think it is really important not to every day be like, let's check the news. Okay. Two people died here and six people died here. And this is terrible processing. Yeah. Like it's not about someone said, think of it as a suitcase.
39:21Amy Wilson:Don't hand your kids a bag that's too heavy for them to carry. I like that metaphor. So it's not about like the more you expose your kids to the horrors of the world, the better they'll do. But on the flip side, it is very important to tell your kids that there is nothing so bad that can happen that we can't talk about it and help each other carry it. And I go to an arts class and I was struggling to go yesterday. I had dropped my kid at camp. I was really like sobbing and just having a really hard time emotionally and I teach this class so I was sort of like I don't know I can go and I called my co-teacher and he was ill and I'm like I can't I don't think I can go and I went and I said we start by sitting in a circle and sort of checking in how's everybody doing and I started and I started bawling I was like I'm doing terribly I'm really having trouble with this I it feels so overwhelming you know this thing that happened in Texas and as we run around the circle people We're like, I'm really sorry this is happening.
40:23Amy Wilson:And somebody was like, I'm glad you came and let us help you hold this. And I was like, you know, that's it. I think the best thing you can say to your kids is let's all hold this together. It's too big for any one of us. But as a family or as an arts class or as a group of friends or as an extended family or as a community, and you're going to see this happening in Kerrville, like people are coming out together to search. and help. This is way too big for any of us to handle. But I think the best thing you can tell your kids is let's all hold this together and it will be easier for us. I wanted to mention this article that was on the conversation about sustained mental health support and how important that is for recovery.
41:09It pertains to Kerrville in particular and the different resources that are and will be available there, but it's also for all situations. And the very excellent point it makes is that people tend to think this sort of support is for other people. I don't really need it. I'm just a little bit upset. This is really for other people. No, this is for you. And that there is support available if you are in a situation where you have to walk your kids through it and you need support yourself, that these things are available and you are exactly who they're for, even weeks or months later that these are available.
41:41So I'm going to link to this article, which talks about the disaster distress helpline and other resources that are available when you need to get yourself together so you can talk to your kids.
41:52Amy Wilson:And with that, thanks so much for listening, everyone, and we will talk to you next week. Thanks, everybody.
42:12Thank you.
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From the publisher
In light of the recent floods in Kerrville, Texas, Margaret and Amy discuss how we can talk to kids about scary, sad, or tragic events—especially when we don’t know what to say.
Topics include:
🧠 How children process grief, tragedy, and fear at different ages
🛡️ The limits of “protecting” kids from the world—and when it's important
💬 Letting kids lead the conversation and avoiding over-explaining
😢 Why it’s okay for kids to see you upset—and how to model healthy emotion regulation
🎭 Understanding kids’ “weird” responses to trauma (jokes, play, denial) as coping
📺 The unintended impact of news media exposure on young children
Here are links to some of the resources mentioned in the episode:
Free and confidential support is offered through resources like the Disaster Distress Helpline (1-800-985-5990 or text TalkWithUs to 66746), which connects you to trained counselors 24/7.
Here's Margaret's preferred donation site for Kerrville:
https://cftexashillcountry.fcsuite.com/erp/donate/create/fund?funit_id=4201
Zachary Suri for the Texas Standard: "How to talk to your kids about the Hill Country floods"
Lee Ann Rawlins Williams for The Conversation: "When disasters fall out of the public eye, survivors continue to suffer – a rehabilitation professional explains how sustained mental health support is critical to recovery"
Danielle S. McLaughlin for the Huffington Post:
“Having Difficult Conversations with Kids”
PBS NOVA: What Next: Talking to children and finding a path to healing after the Newtown shooting tragedy.
The poem "Good Bones" by Maggie Smith
Our Fresh Take with Margaret's sister-in-law Christina Martin on How Children Learn Through Play
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website:
https://www.whatfreshhellpodcast.com/p/promo-codes/
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