What's the Mom Equivalent of Golf?

19:17Heidi Raykeil:Yeah. And kind of sit there. I like to kind of like scroll my phone a little bit, but then at some point you can't like after you soak your fingers in the water, then they're going to put the color on and then like you're just stuck looking at them or talking, I guess, to a stranger for a little while. Yeah. And it's We went to a beautiful golf resort for my husband's 40th. I don't like shopping. I don't like to do any of the like, quote unquote, wifely activities. I'll go to the spot once maybe and get a massage as a treat. But like even that, I don't really want to do that. I mean, I'm not interested in any of those things.

19:46Now, I'm very happy to sit by the pool and read a book for eight hours and that's fine. That's it. But the idea that there is an equivalent activity is not true. It's hard.

19:58Heidi Raykeil:So like this matching joy block, it kind of doesn't exist. And so then we always like to say like, but is that a problem? Who cares? Who cares that there's not a matching joy block for you? Me. I care. I believe you're asking rhetorical questions, but I do know the answers to all of them. I have one who would have a listening ear in you. I want to talk about something called the leisure time gender gap. This is fascinating to me, and I'm so glad you put this together. It's created by a golf. It's proved by golf. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Yes. So across all age groups, ages and stages, having kids, not having kids, men, when Pew Research asked them to do a time, what do they call it?

20:41Heidi Raykeil:A time you study. How are you using your time? Yeah. And they did this in 2013 and they did it again in 2021. Same results. Even amidst the pandemic. Men report having more leisure time than women. And the biggest gap between men and women is for men and women with kids under four at home. This is why I banned golf, guys. This is it. For employed husbands with children under five at home, they have almost 25 hours of leisure time per week, 24.6. That is bonkers. I had 1.2 if I was lucky. Yeah, it's north of three hours a day. It's like three and a half hours a day of leisure time. Children under five at home.

21:20employed wives with children under five at home 20 hours of leisure time per week i think this

21:25Heidi Raykeil:means lying on the couch looking at your phone like you know rotting or watching tv like okay right right you're not going out that's also true that like your real housewives time maybe leisure time but you're not going out and socializing you're not and sometimes a response to the like you know men golf and they take too much time away it's like well women watch real housewives or you know, 30 years ago is when women watch soap operas. But in a typical week, working husbands spend an average of 15 and a half hours watching TV and working wives report 13.2 hours. So they're also watching two and a half hours more of television than the women are.

22:02Heidi Raykeil:And I want to know how many of those 13.2 hours for women are like bluey and blues clothes. Co-watching. Yeah. Yeah. Right. No, I am watching Miss Rachel. No, no, I did see what she, yeah. That's a good point. I want to know. So it matters because this gap is sort of accepted and maintained. And the more hands on the parenting is, the bigger the gap. When kids, once your kids are teenagers, men are reporting about two hours a week more leisure time than their wives, probably because there's just less to do. There's less fewer diapers to change. Right. There's less places to drive. Leisure time now, I'm like, take whatever.

22:41I have no issue with leisure time. But here's another truth bomb that I'm going to lay on you, Amy, about golf. Culturally, I feel like golf is a throwback to men's jobs are to spend as little time with their annoying, naggy wives as possible. Yep. I feel like my husband and I are very, very good friends who really enjoy spending time together. And I've never doubted that about him. But the country club guys certainly as part of their conversation and definitely when I was resisting golf, it becomes a little bit like the old ball and chain wants him at home. I'm like, the old ball and chain does want him at home.

23:30And if he doesn't want to be at home with the old ball and chain, he can divorce me. But I'm not interested in how horrible it is for my husband to have to be around me. And that golf is the solution. Or your children. Or my children. And I mean, in some ways, I think we have a slightly overinflated view of like we're supposed to be besties and perfect romantic partners and lovers and all of these things that go into marriage that puts pressure on marriage. But I don't love the like, thank God we're away from those harpies. That's true. I'm not here for that, guys. I'm definitely not interested in participating in any kind of dialogue around, thank God, my husband gets away from my shrewish self.

24:19Heidi Raykeil:And that that would be the only reason that he's not there. In other words, like you won't let him or you're complaining or whatever. Not that like, I never see my kids during the week. I'm not going to miss them on a Saturday. Also, maybe when they're older, I feel like that was sort of the tack that my husband took at some point. He's like, yeah, I'm missing it. And I was like, I'm drowning. This isn't working. And he's like, yeah, it'll be there. And I want to underline what you said. Like, it is true. Like, there's a time in your life, in your parenting journey, when leisure time is a zero-sum game.

24:48Heidi Raykeil:Either you're relaxing or I am, but we can't both be doing it at the same time. And the day is coming when you will both have a couple hours on a Saturday to do whatever because the kids don't need you. And even then, then you are left with this. But I don't know what to do. With my time. With my time. Because my friends aren't available or this. And it isn't as easy as like, I guess you could go take up golfing if you want to with other women who golf. It doesn't appeal to me. I think I have this sort of underlying resentment of the time that it takes. Right. Right. And that there is absolutely no equivalent.

25:21And I want to be clear that I did fundamentally forbid my husband from playing golf. But the conversation was not like, I'm going to tie you to the sofa so you can't go play golf. My husband grew up working in a golf shop. I mean, he really loves golf and he plays well and he loves it. But yeah, we did have exactly the conversation of like, there may be five years where you cannot play as much golf as you want. But obviously, if he was like, my mental health depends on playing golf, we would have maybe had a different conversation about like, okay, but that means you come home early one day from work or whatever, like to balance it.

26:02But I think being aware that this is a problem without it becoming the choice between like either you're the old ball and chain who's no fun or you do everything by yourself is not the conversation you want to be having about this. Despite the fact that all the guys are like, poor Dave, can't come out to golf

26:22Heidi Raykeil:because he's parenting his children. Oh, poor guy. But even less than like golf is bad. How can you let's say you have a supportive spouse, right? I'm going to quote Brunette Babe on Reddit. I don't know her, but I thought she put this question in a pretty funny way. She says, I want to leave the house for six hours and enjoy my life, but I don't want to spend money. And I would like to say, hey, babe, I'm going blank Sunday. Cool. And he can stay with the eight month old. Well, I'll have some fun. What would that be? Right. So what is that? Right. And so that's what we're really trying to get at.

26:51Heidi Raykeil:Not like how can we get them to stop golfing? But it's like, how can we find a block of leisure for ourselves that is satisfying in the same way golf is satisfying? And then go get it and then go get that for yourself. And you do have to be really deliberate about it because it's not going to be handed to you. Absolutely. And the way that we started this in my house was Saturday sleeping. Every Saturday, my husband was in charge of the kids until noon because I had a really hard week. He was gone basically Monday to Friday, maybe came home from like the end of bath time, tickles and bed. But basically, I was alone doing it all week long.

27:26But I always knew on Friday I could get into bed with a book at 8, read for three hours, and if I wanted to, sleep in as late as I wanted to on Saturday, and then get up and do whatever. Lay around on the couch, watch a movie, whatever it happened to be. And it's just free time that I think we need more than, like, putting an activity in there necessarily. early.

27:49Heidi Raykeil:Well, if putting an activity in there, if blocking it out in the way golf is blocked out, like every Saturday, if that helps, then do that. For you, you did. It was Saturday. It was on the, maybe it wasn't in the calendar, but it was in your head's calendars that this is Saturday and that's your time. And so doing that seems crucial. But then what do you do with that time? Our listeners had so many ideas for our listener with this leisure time question. All right, Let's take a break and lay those on. Got some good ideas. It's so important for our kids to be confident in the water because then our kids will be safe.

28:23Heidi Raykeil:But then you have to deal with cold pools, cranky adults swimming laps right next to them, and getting in the water with the kids. Yuck. Amy, you're giving me flashbacks, but not anymore. Now there's Goldfish Swim School. Goldfish Swim School is a premier parent-trusted Learn to Swim brand designed intentionally for both kids and parents with a focus on confidence, safety, and progress, not just swim skills. Every detail at Goldfish is thoughtfully designed to create a golden experience from shiver-free, warm indoor pools to comfy and separate viewing areas for parents to professionally trained lifeguards on deck.

29:00And they offer year-round swim lessons for children as young as four months up to 12 years old with flexible scheduling and easy makeups

29:10Heidi Raykeil:through the Goldfish Swim School app. If you've been thinking about swim lessons or just wondering where to start, this is a great opportunity. Right now, Goldfish Swim School is offering a waived membership, plus your child's first lesson free at participating locations. Just visit goldfishswimschool.com slash free and find a location near you and enroll using the promo code free. That's goldfishswimschool.com slash free promo code free. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's Name Your Price tool for years now. With the Name Your Price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they'll show you options that fit your budget.

29:50Heidi Raykeil:So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit Progressive.com. Find a rate that works for you with the Name Your Price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

30:12And now, who does your kid love more, mom or dad, from the What Fresh Hell podcast? Mom carried child for nine long months before enduring the lengthy pain of childbirth. Dad did not do any of those things. Daddy is the best. Mom carefully considers children's well-being and safety. Dad can throw the baby like 10 feet in the air. I love daddy. Mom spent 45 minutes last night carefully supervising homework and repeatedly explaining the concept of fractions. Dad spent four minutes last night singing in a hilarious voice. It's totally daddy. Mom lovingly crafts healthy meals made of organic ingredients.

30:59Dad invented ice cream for breakfast. Oh, for God's sakes, this is totally unfair. Mom provides unconditional love. Dad provides unconditional love and makes fart noises on command. Daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy.

31:19Heidi Raykeil:So our listeners came in hot for the listener in our Facebook group who said like, what can I do? I'm having a hard time finding this leisure time that I hear about. Why can't I find this thing? There must be something wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you, but we're going to help you find it. Now, we don't like to yuck yums on this podcast, but we might goof on some of these because none of them are golf. As I think we have already demonstrated, golf has a unique way to extend its tentacles into everywhere you go and everything you do. And it's completely non-negotiable. So some of these aren't quite that.

31:48Heidi Raykeil:Love it. But let's try. The me time category, mani-pedis. I think I've rejected that. I think that that's like a tight 90 minutes that's grooming. I mean, go if you want, but that doesn't count. Haircuts, mani-pedis to me don't count. I agree. It's kind of work. Right. All right. Well, let's move on to sports because there were a lot of sports suggestions. I'm not particularly sporty, but that doesn't mean that this wouldn't be a good thing for me to try. Allison says pickleball. I play a little pickleball. You're good. I'm way into pickleball. I'm a big pickler. I will say I play a lot with my husband.

32:19And when we go on vacation, it's a fun activity for us to do together. Now my kids are getting into it. I like pickleball. It's at least three hours if you like drive their pickle for an hour. Is that what you kids call it? You pickle? Yeah. I like a little pickleball. I would not have had energy for pickleball when my kids were under five. I would I just there is no way I wanted to do anything sporty when my kids were under five.

32:43Heidi Raykeil:I am not athletic at all. What I like about pickleball is that you can kind of play it like, you know, it's so much easier than tennis. Right. It's like it's ping pong with a wiffle ball is basically what you're doing. And so like you can take a stab at it and get it across the net after 10 minutes. Now your kids might yell at you that you're terrible like they do for me. So it quickly became like not fun. It was fun for me for that moment when everybody was trying something new and now it's become totally serious with leads. They've moved on without you. Yeah, they're like, yeah, yes. I'm like smashing the ball in your face.

33:13Goodbye. But it is possible to learn it as an adult. I will say that for me, pickleball, very enjoyable now. Exercise classes. I didn't want to do any of that. I was so tired all the time when I had three little kids. There was nothing appealing to me. I think I had a gym membership and I would occasionally go and just take a long shower and then like sit in the sauna and go in the steam room and then wait. And like, I kind of like mini spot it sometimes, which I liked.

33:40Heidi Raykeil:And Alicia does jujitsu. She started a jujitsu class with five other moms. She says, our side of the mat is only women and we only roll with each other. What I like about this is that because I want it to be social too. Like getting a mini pedi is not social. I'm like, you could go with a friend, I guess. But you know. Pickleball is not terribly social. Like you're hitting a ball most of the time. It's not like golf where you're sitting and chatting. That's true. There's not as much waiting around for somebody else to have a turn or whatever. But jujitsu and Alicia got into this because she was taking her kids.

34:10Heidi Raykeil:And then some of the moms were like, maybe we should do this. And so I feel like you're really like niching down in a good way. Like if you're doing jujitsu, you're already kind of finding your people. Yeah, I feel like that's fun. I did a tap dancing class. Adult tap dancing. Loved it. I feel like classes are a good category. Danielle says art classes, any classes, structured, reliable. They have a start time. They're not totally inexpensive, depending on what you're doing. Right. They don't have to be hugely expensive, but you paid for it. And Spanish class, crafting class. I will say crafting, I feel like, tends to involve, like, I'm making a blanket for the baby.

34:47Or I'm, like, learning to decorate cakes for the birthday. Like, it still ties into the family a little bit.

34:53Heidi Raykeil:It's kin keeping. Right. You're learning to kin keep better. I don't want it to be that. But Abby says you can build relationships around a shared interest. There's lots of opportunity for conversation. Unlike pickleball, you're sitting there, you know, learning a needlepoint and you can talk and people will be consistent. Emily says she took a knitting class on how to make a sweater once a week for six weeks. Many people chatted, but there were people who didn't. You could choose your own social adventure. I really like that. So maybe knitting. And Gina says adult dance classes. That's a fun one.

35:23It's a lot of time. And like being in community theater is a great one. It's fun. It's a lot of time. Big time commitment. And talk about non-negotiable. Got to be at rehearsal.

35:32Heidi Raykeil:Right. The director will show up at your house and drag you there. Talking about the gym. Tina said she does gym group fitness classes. I do this. Like I go to the same yoga class and I like sort of wave high to people as I roll up my mat. And one time we went out to lunch for somebody's birthday. but I guess it's like you got to lean in a little bit like Nicholas Epley was saying on the fresh take we did with him and you can create lunch dinner let's do this after that kind of thing yeah my fitness class that I go to is the same group of people and they're waiting for you know when I don't show up for a week oh where were you like it's nice to have it also keeps me fitter because I have to go because otherwise they're like where have you been Becca says it's good because you can go out to lunch yourself afterwards if you don't have friends in the class, just go out to lunch by yourself.

36:16Heidi Raykeil:As you were saying, tech on the time, a little steam, a little sauna, a little shower. I'm searching for this thing that's going to keep you out of the house for a nice long leisure block that is not just stressful. Here's my true suggestion. I don't know if it's on the list. Lunch with friends followed by a three hour nap. That is my idea of like the perfect outing for a tired mom. Like I will go out to lunch. I can have a glass of wine with lunch if I want. We have a two hour lunch and then there's three hours afterwards reserved for me to take a nap. That's a great six hour activity for me.

36:48Heidi Raykeil:That lunchtime glass of wine is going to come in handy, right? When you hit the pillow. This brings me to this whole group that people came up with. There's a lot of versions of friend rituals. And this one really appealed to me because it's like the mani-pedi is for your nails and the knitting class is to make a sweater for somebody else. And I'm not social and I'm not out. And so, and if you'd make plans with somebody, they flake half the time because they're a mom too. And somebody's sick. Golf is non-negotiable, but like let's have coffee today feels extremely negotiable, unfortunately. But if you create rituals, so we had some great ideas around this.

37:20Heidi Raykeil:Jane says chit chat night. It's literally just sitting around with a beverage and talking. Yes, it doesn't happen for five, six hours in the middle of a Saturday. Every other Friday night, we'll get together. This is moms. Sometimes it's just two of us. Sometimes it's four or five of us. Once a month or so, we'll do a dinner and the husbands and kids are invited too. But it's chit chat night and it's every Friday. Love it. I like to have parameters though. we're not allowed to talk about school the kids like I don't want to go out with a group of moms and be like did you think that Mrs. Harrison's assignment was okay for seventh grade oh I would have rather stayed home like I like to go out and be like we're not talking about the kids book club sometimes does that if you've got a book but I do find sometimes chit chat night gets a little like Mikey has a strange rash let me show you a picture of it and I'm like no I don't want to leave the house for this experience that's harder work and I think you're right because otherwise the thing that you had in common, you know, I'll make a mom friend with somebody that one of my kids went to school with along the way and they don't go to the same school anymore.

38:17Heidi Raykeil:And then you get together for coffee and like, you find like you don't really have anything to talk about because what you had to talk about was soccer or ballet or, you know, the thing, the thing that your kids had in common or the common experience they were having. And you don't really know. It's not that something you don't like them. It's that you don't really know if you like them because it was all about the kids. So you're right. Yeah. Like, I'm very happy to go out and kiki with friends, but I don't want to go out and be like, my kid got into a better college than yours. Like that. And sometimes I just have to give voice to it.

38:48Anything but our children.

38:50Heidi Raykeil:Yeah. Daylan says, schedule Fika with friends. You want to know what Fika is? I'm going to tell you. Fika with friends monthly is a good place to start, says Daylan. And then sometimes you have to work up to weekly with certain friends. So she finds that it's ideal. Sometimes you need a weekly fika, monthly. Did you know what fika was? No, never heard it before. It's very important that you know what this is because I'm going to totally put this ritual in. It is a Swedish word. Fika means to have something sweet to eat and something hot to drink. So you're having coffee and tea and a little something.

39:22Heidi Raykeil:That's a dessert. A little nosh, as we say. A little nosh, but you can't, you would never say, let's have a fika and then you just get coffee. Like you can't do that. That would be rude. You have to have a little something that you sit together with, and that's fika. I like this. I do a lot of coffee and walking in New York City with friends, so I don't know if I could call that a fika, but I might get a fika in the back. I get a fika to go. But I love the idea that we have a monthly fika, and it sounds more ritualistic when you give it a Swedish name. This is something that we do. I have lots of friends that I like, hey, I haven't talked to you in a while.

39:56Heidi Raykeil:Let's meet for coffee, but I don't have the ritual, and that's what golf provides for men and their friends. Two things. One, I've often tried to be like first Monday of the month. We're all going to go for cocktails. Here's 20 people. Whoever can show up. Might be three, might be 20. We're going to just go to a local place and have a drink or a beverage of some sort. The other thing I like is can you do something tonight or tomorrow? Because I find sometimes the scheduling is 90 % of the conversation and then it kind of feels like it's not worth it. You'd be surprised who's available. Like, are you available tonight?

40:29night yeah we you and i recently met up with our husbands and wasn't it kind of like hey are you free friday on a tuesday and we were like yep we are and there we were at dinner and i feel like we could have spent three months being like we should plan that right i feel like i'm a little

40:43Heidi Raykeil:shy to do this but why not you know this is what i've learned from that nicholas epley thing that should be the one i'd be like we're all meeting for cocktails emily has a standing coffee date every friday meet at a bakery little fika everybody knows it's every friday so you don't have to like tell people if you're not coming or you just come or don't, but there's a thing, a standing thing every Friday. And she says, everybody knows to bring a book in case you show up and you're the only one. Nobody else comes. Then you're at the bakery and you have a time at the bakery reading your book that you're out of the house, that that is a standing thing.

41:10Heidi Raykeil:I don't know if that's harder or easier, but I'm attracted to that idea. Like every Friday I'm going to do this. I feel like I've tried to do it a lot of times, but what happens is then it's like, okay, but not in the spring because it's softball season. So Tuesdays are no good because that's game night. It just, It's hard to keep it going because then it's like, well, we're not going to do it in June when everyone's graduating. We're not going to do it in May when everyone's going to prom. We're not going to do it. It's hard to keep these going. That's right. Emily said Bunko. Set up a Bunko club.

41:40Heidi Raykeil:Have you ever played Bunko? I had to look up what Bunko was. It's a dice game with 12 more players using three dice. It's super fun and easy. I don't know if Bunko and Left, Right, Center are the same game, but I've played them both. Okay. It's fun. I mean, it's fun. You have to have an organizer. I do feel like people have gotten out of the habit of like having 12 people over to their houses. Bunko is super fun. I mean, we're moving seriously into the category of suburban mom slash old lady activities. Old lady activities. Mahjong. Mahjong is now hip. It's hip for the youngs. It's hip. And I am kind of like the universe keeps telling me I have to learn to play Mahjong.

42:18Heidi Raykeil:You're Mahjong curious. I can tell. You've mentioned it several times. But I'm like this, like with my fingernails, like, please, no, I don't want to play Mahjong. But everybody, I please know it's like separate wives. Everybody I talk to is like, do you play Mahjong? Like, no, I don't. But you're going to. But I'm going to have to. You're going to. Stop resisting. I mean, I if I could find a standing card game, I love to play cards. I hate board games with a passion. I would rather do anything than play like Monopoly or God forbid settlers of Catan and sit there trading wheat with people. like miss me forever.

42:52It's a good way to get yelled at by your kids. But I love going to a bar and playing cards for a couple hours is my idea of a great time.

42:57Heidi Raykeil:I did bar trivia. Love bar trivia. And that's really fun. And that's very like zero entry too. You don't really show up by yourself. You show up with one other person, you're fine. If you can get three or four people to go, you'll do better because you all get to be on the same team. You can have a Diet Coke or you can eat. It doesn't have to be very expensive and it's fun and it's every Tuesday and that would be something you could kind of get going that would get you out of the house. But it's not hard. You don't have to buy anything and you don't have to learn how to play first. It's just bar trivia.

43:25I think we're just coming down on Amy. Check out the thread. There's lots of ideas.

43:30Heidi Raykeil:Lots of good ideas. Carve out your time. And if you are having trouble saying no to golf, call me and I will call the people in your life and tell them that no one is allowed to play golf because you have children under five. Yes, we haven't been socially conditioned to make sure that mothers get to disappear for eight hours at a time. No. But you can start smaller and find stuff with friends. And if it can make it a little bit of a standing schedule, non-negotiable, so much the better. Make it work, as Tim Gunn used to say. Make it work. Are you signed up for our newsletter? You should be. It's full of fun tips, favorite episodes, lots of just cool, fun information.

44:06Heidi Raykeil:Sign up for it at the link in our show notes or just go to our website, whatfashoutpodcast.com. It's right there in the top right. Sign up for the newsletter once a month. Cool stuff. A lot of which hasn't been on the show. So come check it out. Check it out. And with that, we will talk to you next time. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks, everybody.

44:45Heidi Raykeil:And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com.