In short
A mailbag response on why people (especially midlife parents) feel nostalgia—missing the past while also feeling “stranger in a strange land” as life parameters become fixed. They discuss triggers (photos/videos, sensory memories like smells, social interactions like Zoom calls, and life transitions like aging parents, moving, and retirement), benefits (meaning, self-esteem, social connection, joy/dopamine), and downsides (rumination, anxiety/depression in some people, hindering growth).
Guests
Margaret Ables and Amy Wilson (hosts). No other guests appear in the transcript.
Key claims
Nostalgia is both positive and painful; it often increases with age and transition. Permanent life choices (marriage, children, roots) make the present feel less open than youth. Nostalgia can help parents “enjoy the first time through” and preserve moments intentionally.
Notable examples
Zoom look-through of a childhood home for Margaret’s family; college reunion anticipation; watching old Christmas home movies; iPhone photo/video sharing that kids don’t feel nostalgic about; mention of Leanne Morgan as an example of a “dream” that may not happen.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMailbag Response: Nostalgia in Mid-40s
0:45 to 1:20
Discussion on the feelings of nostalgia and reflection as one ages.
“I'm Team Crone coming out of the dark shadows of the supermarket being like, enjoy it and go so fast.”
Life Choices and Defining Moments
1:20 to 5:00
Exploration of significant life choices and their impact on future outlook.
“Back in my day, Peggy Sue got married the other night when her grandmother said, the things that happened to me 50 years ago are more on my mind than the things that happen today.”
The Transition of Life Stages
5:00 to 7:40
Understanding how transitions in life can bring about nostalgia and reflection.
“And I don't think it's 100 % age defined.”
Dreams and Realities in Adulthood
7:40 to 10:00
Discussing the realization of unfulfilled dreams and embracing reality.
“And I always feel like that's my job when I talk to people to say just like, just make a choice and then make another one and then make another one.”
Looking Back: Childhood Memories
10:00 to 14:03
Sharing childhood memories and how they shape our identity in adulthood.
“And I like the life I've built and I don't have regrets about life.”
Reflecting on Nostalgia
14:03 to 14:49
Exploring the feelings and memories tied to childhood homes and transitions in life.
Triggers of Nostalgia
18:07 to 22:22
Discussing the sensory experiences and memories that evoke nostalgia.
“So there are two things I think happening in Courtney's question.”
The Complexity of Nostalgia
22:22 to 26:38
Investigating the bittersweet nature of nostalgia and its impacts on perception.
“experiencing periods of change in our personal or professional lives, reflecting on the past helps us remain grounded in our beliefs and stay true to our values.”
Nostalgia's Role in Personal Growth
26:38 to 28:00
Examining how nostalgia can both hinder and promote personal growth.
“And I do think, I mean, if my husband and I stay together, which hopefully we will, and we live a long time, like, I'm never going to be like, is this guy going to kiss me?”
The Complexity of Nostalgia
28:00 to 30:52
Exploring why nostalgia can evoke both joy and sadness, especially in parenting.
“I mean, I guess it's also like Glory Days recording song lyrics today, because clearly this is a thing that artists have been thinking about that it's not even there as a kid.”
Show all 15 chapters
Looking Back on Parenting Moments
33:25 to 39:29
Discussing the importance of preserving memories and the bittersweet nature of nostalgia.
“And now, there are some things that change, and it's not so great.”
Reflecting on the Nature of Time
39:29 to 42:00
Analyzing how nostalgia affects our perception of time and parenting experiences.
“at the dinner table, my son had made a crazy mistake at a track meet and he had run off.”
Nostalgia and Its Impact on Parenting
42:00 to 45:50
Explore the complex feelings of nostalgia in parenting and its effects on family dynamics.
“You don't want to not be disappointed that they don't.”
Embracing Life's Performances
45:50 to 47:20
Learn how to appreciate life's moments without dwelling on their endings.
“And that's what Skylight Frames are for.”
Introduction to What Fresh Hell Plus
47:20 to 48:24
Discover the benefits of supporting the podcast through What Fresh Hell Plus.
“And Courtney said at the beginning, it's a rhetorical question, which is funny because we did a whole episode about it, but she's right.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01At DSW, we ask the important questions like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP. So own the moment. You've got big plans and we've got just the shoes. At the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today and let us surprise you.
0:32Heidi Raykeil:It's a highlight reel. What fresh hell. Laughing in the face of motherhood. It doesn't turn out well. It's not a great idea. With Margaret Ables and Amy Wilson. What a thrill it was. A podcast that solves today's parenting dilemmas so you don't have to. I'm Team Crone coming out of the dark shadows of the supermarket being like, enjoy it and go so fast.
1:01Heidi Raykeil:Hey, everybody. Welcome to What Fresh Tell? Laughing in the Face of Motherhood. This is Amy. And this is Margaret. And Amy, this week, we don't even have to remember mailbag. The whole episode is a response to a mailbag. Are you ready? I'm ready. Born ready. Courtney over email says, I just watched Oldie Locks Alert. Back in my day, Peggy Sue got married the other night when her grandmother said, the things that happened to me 50 years ago are more on my mind than the things that happen today. I felt it in my bones. What is it about your mid-40s that creates a strong ache of nostalgia? And what is it about this stage of life, what biological imperative makes my brain demand a reevaluation, a mid-career retrospective?
1:48Does anyone else relate to the talking head lyrics? And you may ask yourself, well, how did I get here? In a way they haven't before, it's a little bit of a rhetorical question because I know the answer. Parents aging and passing away, children growing older, and the window on this phase of parenting beginning to shut. The sudden realization that it is the life I've chosen. It's happening. It has happened. This is water. Anywho, what kind of research can you put around this? surely I'm not the only one gabsmacked by this phase of life.
2:26Heidi Raykeil:Wow, that's a lot. There's 10 episodes in there. It seems to me like it's kind of two things she's talking about, like fondness, nostalgia for times past. And you can remember those things better, which I know that there is a reason for that. And then also like a lack of familiarity, a little like deja vu, a jamais vu, I believe they call it. Like, where am I? How did I get here? What is this? That your present is unfamiliar. That's right. and that this is how your life turned out. Like that part I find all the time that when you're, you know, we have young kids, I mean, youngish teenagers, young adults, and their life could be anything.
3:06They don't know who they're going to marry. They don't really know what they're doing for a career. Your kids are kind of stepping into some of those places where their life is getting more defined. But if they wanted to like open a tiki bar in the Maldives, that could still happen for them. They could go to a fortune teller and that fortune teller could say, you are going to have 12 kids and you're going to live at the North Pole. You know, a fortune teller for us is like everyone around you will slowly get married and then lots of them will die. Like it's kind of over the discovery phase of life for many of us.
3:47Now, we're older than some of our listeners, but I would even argue my sisters-in-law were with me this weekend, and they're probably 15 and 16 years younger than I am. But we had kids around the same time because I had kids very late and they had kids early. And for all of us, our peerdom is very well defined. Although, I mean, it's funny because one of my sisters-in-law is the same age as my best friend's son. So really, I'm more the age of a mother than a sister to her. But functionally, we are more like peers because we're in the same phase of our lives. We've made a lot of the big decisions.
4:32We all know who our kids are going to be, how many of them there are going to be, who we're married to. You know, some of us get remarried and things change. It doesn't mean nothing will change. But there is a phase of life where many of the tent poles kind of get defined. Like the question of how is my life going to turn out is to some degree answered.
4:59Heidi Raykeil:It cannot be, but that there is probably greater road behind you than ahead of you. And I don't think it's 100 % age defined. No, but there's a lot in your rearview mirror that there isn't when they're 23. You're looking back at hundreds of choices made, and they haven't made any of those choices yet. And so they have an open country ahead of them. And you can see all the way back to where you started and all the paths. But I'm saying something different. I think that there are essential choices that you make that are very life-defining, that though we are very different ages, we have already made those choices.
5:37Anything could happen to any of us, right? Like, I could run off tomorrow and move to Paris and become the world's most renowned painter. That is not likely, but it could happen. But I think that marriage and children and putting down roots and where you're going to live are kind of definitive choices about your life, no matter what age you make them at. I made those choices in my late 30s and 40s. They made those choices in their late 20s and early 30s. But there is something about kind of setting up the parameters of your life that feels finite in some way.
6:23Heidi Raykeil:And you're saying that's why we love looking back, looking back to a time when things were less finite? Well, in this conversation, I'm just saying this is why my sisters-in-law and I feel more like peers, even though we're quite different ages. And I think people listening may be at all different phases of this, but in that we're talking to moms of kids who have probably chosen the person they think is their life partner and settled in a school district because that's where they want to raise their kids. I don't think it's 100 % age dependent. I think it's a little bit more about making permanent choices that they're not all permanent.
7:05We could pick up and move somewhere tomorrow. People who are listening who have family in the military may move six or seven more times. but the kind of big life decisions once you've made them I think it gives you that talking head song is this my beautiful life like how did I get to an age where I kind of know the parameters of
7:28Heidi Raykeil:my life it's a shocking feeling I always feel like it's my job I keep having the same conversation with parents because I have two kids now in their 20s and I will talk to parents who one wants their kid to be an actor one wants their kid to be a writer both things that i did and know about and they want me to tell them what job their kids should get like now at 22 in order to be a successful actor or writer and like they should probably if they really like writing in the mornings they should wait tables if they really like cook i'm like they should make money and write and act like no no but how do you get ahead and like you don't you get a job you don't care about that much that will pay some bills and then you just start doing stuff but they want to hear like the most right choice.
8:10Heidi Raykeil:And I always feel like that's my job when I talk to people to say just like, just make a choice and then make another one and then make another one. Stop locking stuff down at 23. You've got time. That's my perspective. And then I think you can find yourself in your 40s, 50s, sometimes even you're in your 30s. You wanted to be and devoted some of your life to being an actress, right? And probably wanted to be a famous actress, win an Oscar, win a Tony, whatever you wanted to do. I started my life wanting to be a writer, right? I was very clear that I would win an Oscar and be famous. I wanted to be Tina Fey.
8:49That's the job I wanted in this life. And I wanted to be famous very badly. Like that was very important to me. And I wanted to be funny in public and be lauded for those things. At this phase of my life, those things are not going to happen. I am not going to become Tina Fey. I am not going to probably win an Emmy. I mean, listen, could I next year have the greatest idea in the world for a sitcom and it could launch you? Anything could happen. But the older I get, I no longer even know if I would. If there was a button on my desk that I could push that was like, you could push this button and become the next Tina Fey and get famous.
9:37And there's a comic now. I think her name is Leanne Morgan. I'm not sure if I'm getting that right. I like her. Yeah. But she's older. She's in her 50s for sure. And, you know, she's currently has a sitcom and is a comedian and doing very well and famous. And if I could push that button and it sat on my desk, I really don't think I would push it. That's how far away I am from it. And I like the life I've built and I don't have regrets about life. But I do think there is a reckoning that comes with this stage of life, which is like certain dreams didn't happen. Different dreams happened better than I could have ever imagined.
10:17And is this my beautiful life? Like, I can't believe I am a person. Sometimes it strikes me when my mom died eight years ago And it still strikes me sometimes that like my mother is no longer here. It blows my mind. Like I am so far through life that I have lived without my mom. My sister-in-law was just saying their father passed away when she was young. And she was saying that this will be the year that she's lived longer without her father than with her father. And it's like those kind of reckonings that come upon you, they're just deep and full of nostalgia. And I think that what we're going to learn is that they're not good or bad, but they're worth examining.
11:07Heidi Raykeil:I'm missing the nostalgia part, though, because to me, I can't believe that I have lived in New York for 30 years. That doesn't seem possible, as you say, that I'm old enough to have lost a parent. It doesn't seem possible, but it doesn't make me nostalgic for the past. It's more this, like, you've been dropped here, right? Like, you just woke up from a dream and like, what do you mean? What do you mean I'm old? And of course, it's never, I try to explain this to my kids and they never know what you're talking about. You know, I'm like, how is it possible that I went to college like this long ago?
11:38Heidi Raykeil:And they're just like, it seems very possible to them. They're talking to their old mom. You're old to us. Right. Yeah, yeah. And maybe that's why we want to go looking back because it's missing that. Wait a minute. What? You don't have any of that when you look back at who you were when you were 22. You didn't feel that way then. Amy, let me break it down for you. Nostalgic is a term coined in the late 17th century, originating from the Greek word nostros, meaning return, and algos, meaning pain. Initially used to describe the profound sorrow experienced by homesick soldiers, nostalgia has evolved over time into a more positive and complex term to describe an emotional state.
12:22And so, yes, I think we're talking about two different things. One is like Stranger in a Strange Land. Like, I didn't feel like I was making a million choices and suddenly I've lived in New York for 30 years. That's more Stranger in a Strange Land. But I think built into that is a sense of nostalgia. Today, nostalgia refers to the sentimental longing for the past, often triggered when a person reflects on cherished memories or even difficult experiences. It tends to emerge during periods of transition or when someone is facing challenges in the present. I do think there is a connection to like, how can my little baby who two days ago was saying Ambu Blance be going to college?
13:06Like, how am I writing his name on a duffel bag right now? It's both stranger in a strange land and periods of transition that bring up these intense feelings. And I am going through it right now with my whole family because the childhood home that I grew up in, I was not quite born there, but like from as early as I can remember until the end of my college experience is on sale. And they just posted photos online of all the rooms. And we got on a Zoom and we looked through all of the photos. And some of my nieces and nephews were on the call and we were dying laughing. We're like, remember that time you fell down the stairs that's the staircase we used to put each other in the suitcase and throw each other down the stairs oh my gosh that's the weird basement where we used to do laundry and it was like a joyful pain looking at these pictures like how could that experience have been 40 years ago like we are talking about it the four children and just my dad now because my mom's dead of like oh my gosh the soot that's in that fireplace remember how it used to get sooty and like it's still there like that that world and that home is still there but we are so far away from it the children we were in that house have become the adults we could have never predicted and it's blowing our minds so this moment of transition you're looking
14:40Heidi Raykeil:back to when things were certain and then now you've moved away from it and looking back at the past seems so certain and it seems so reassuring and sweet. Yes. So we're going to dig in to these feelings of nostalgia after this. It's way more fun to plan a summer vacation when you know exactly how you're going to afford it. That's why Margaret and I both love Monarch Core. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything, accounts, investments, savings goals, and spending. Right now, you can get your first year of Monarch Core for half off, just$50 with the promo code FRESH. Monarch Core takes the mental load of your finances way down.
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18:10So there are two things I think happening in Courtney's question. We're going to start with the nostalgic element of it.
18:18Heidi Raykeil:Okay. There are several common triggers for nostalgia. Sensory experiences, right? So we know this as actors. Inactoring, not a phrase. It's been too long since I was an actor. Inactoring, they talk a lot about sense memory. Like if you're trying to conjure something, you try to find a sense that is connected to it. Like the corduroy dress you were wearing when you found out you lost the spelling bee and then you bring that memory of that sense or the smell of that room into a situation where you have to pretend to be excited or sad or whatever it may be. So for me, like the scent, we still bake my mom's recipe apple pie.
18:57The smell of that, it's like we're getting ready for Thanksgiving. Mom is running around in the kitchen. It brings back like a very specific memory. A photo from a favorite family vacation and or several photos of the house you grew up in suddenly online. Very much like a wormhole through time. The five senses are a catalyst for memory recall. Smells, sights, sounds. There's this oil they use on the New Orleans streetcar. It's the only time I've ever smelled that. If you opened a bottle of that in front of me right now, my whole being would be transported to the year I lived in New Orleans. I've never smelled that anywhere else.
19:37It's the wormhole in time where you're like, how am I back in this place? And it also makes you think about where you are now. And then life transitions, which I think is a lot what Courtney is asking about. Retiring and moving, right? How this baby is so old. How my parent, who took care of me and held me my whole life, is now moving into a nursing home or needs a tremendous amount of care from me. It's a very jarring experience. It doesn't, my dad is about to turn 91 years old and he's like, you never do feel 91. Like he feels like a 30 year old or a 45 year old maybe. And that disconnection between the age you feel and the age you are, he's very jarring mentally.
20:26Heidi Raykeil:It's very jarring and it increases. And no wonder, I guess that's why I'm saying, no wonder nostalgia might get more interesting because there's more behind you. There's a lot behind you to look at if you get to be lucky enough to be 91 years old. And looking back at that is satisfying and reassuring and makes sense. And also, yes, I think if I am lucky enough to be 91, I will be deeply weirded out by the fact that I'm 91 years old. It doesn't seem possible. You will be. You absolutely will be. Social interactions can stir up nostalgia, right? Like this was what we were doing on the Zoom. Like, oh, my gosh, remember the time you fell down that stairs?
21:01that's the couch that you tripped on and cut your head on right like these things these memories they bring about feelings of shared remembrance and belonging so these are the benefits of
21:16Heidi Raykeil:nostalgia right there's a rose-colored glasses aspect that you're like remembering the fun times the fun times when you threw each other down the stairs in suitcases but like i'm not gonna lie they were the best of times. It was the best house. It was the best. We had the best time. And clearly, I'll speak for myself. If I'm looking at pictures of my childhood home, which we know is gone, it's sold now. You remember the highlights. It's a highlight reel. And you wish you could go back because it would be so great. And of course, like your real life was many days that were boring, bad, just fine.
21:50Heidi Raykeil:But nostalgia, you just see the Christmas mornings of it all. Yes. So the benefits of nostalgia, building self-esteem. Positive memories can reinforce a person's self-worth, allow them to feel more confident, help us find meaning. Nostalgia offers deeper understanding of our journeys in life, which can give us purpose and meaning in times of uncertainty. I think this is very true. Right. Like, how did I get here? Well, it all started at my beautiful home where we threw each other down the stairs and suitcases. that you're looking back, that gives you some certainty. Encouraging authenticity, experiencing periods of change in our personal or professional lives, reflecting on the past helps us remain grounded in our beliefs and stay true to our values.
22:33Like, you know that Miranda Lambert song, The House That Built Me?
22:37Heidi Raykeil:No. Oh, you gotta listen to it. We'll put it in the show notes. It's about her going back to her childhood home. She's like, I won't bother you. If I could just come in for a minute, it. I'll leave. I won't leave anything but my memories. Like, she's like, my dog is buried in the yard. This is the room where I learned to play guitar. The idea is like, can she recapture something in that home? Because that's the house that built me. That's the idea. And I think that's what this is getting to. Like, we were built in the places where we grew up. Then making us happy, which let me tell you on the Zoom, I was crying laughing so hard, just remembering all the stupid stuff we did in that house.
23:17Perhaps the most beneficial and simple aspect of nostalgia is the ability to bring joy to our lives. Reliving some of our favorite memories releases dopamine in our brains. Man, did I feel that. Like looking at this picture, I was feeling like waves of just laughter and joy and like the smell of my mom's perfume coming down the back stairs when she and my dad were going out, like, I lived. I was here. I was seen. Like, I existed. It's such an important human need. I think of this scene in Shawshank Redemption when the old man writes, Brooks was here. And it's like, he just carves it into the wood.
24:00It's like, it was real. I was here. I was a person in this place. And like, now I may feel lost as a 40 or 50-year-old, but like, I existed in this place. And reconnecting to that, I think, can feel painful, but it can also kind of be a positive in terms of like, those moments were real and this moment was real. My human brain cannot keep them connected throughout time and space. But like, I lived there. I was there. I was that kid.
24:32Heidi Raykeil:This is so well timed for me because I have a college reunion this weekend. Yes. And I I think that sometimes I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it because I'm driving up with my friend of mine who was my roommate right out of college and another friend. These two are the people who stayed friends. I really haven't seen this other woman in years and years and years and years. We're going to drive to the reunion together, stay at the same hotel. And I'm looking forward to it. But I'm also kind of like, because sometimes it's better to just remember it. Like, oh, my God, it was so amazing.
Read the full transcript
24:58Heidi Raykeil:And then you go back and you kind of remember all of it. Right. Like you don't really want to go back to the house. You want to wish you could go back to the old house. There's some like expression about that. Like the past is not everything that you think it is. You tend to have, like you said, those rose colored glasses about the past. Right. So if I have a moment at this reunion where I'm like bored or lonely or disenchanted with the experience, then that threatens to take down the whole like maybe it wasn't as good as I remember. You want it to be just good. I think that's maybe why sometimes people don't go back.
25:30I also think you're going to have the experience, which I did. I don't go to my own college reunions because I'm friends with the people I want to be friends with. I'm good. But I went to my husband's and it is hard to watch the like 19 and 20 year olds walking around and be like, they can be anything. And I can't. Right. Like that is a painful thing. And I think that that is a lot of what Courtney's talking about is like you do lose as you get older. That 19 year old is about to like fall in love. That person is going to break their heart. Then they're going to take a semester abroad and they're going to meet their best friend forever.
26:09and then their best friend is going to introduce him to their brother and they're going to fall in love and like those moments are intense and wonderful and painful and your life is not like that in your 40s and 50s you do not wake up every day being like the phone could ring and it could be that's right the person who's going to change my life that's right and it's always that's good Like, I don't want the phone to ring and change my life anymore. I don't crave that experience, but I do miss that experience. And I do think, I mean, if my husband and I stay together, which hopefully we will, and we live a long time, like, I'm never going to be like, is this guy going to kiss me?
26:54It's so exciting. Like stability is great, but it comes with a lot of loss, which is like, I'm probably not going to win an Oscar. When I was 19, that feeling where I would interview myself for Vanity Fair magazine in the mirror was so real to me. It was all going to happen. You know, looking back, I know some people that happened to and I wouldn't trade places with them, if I'm being honest. but the feeling that anything could happen just doesn't exist anymore. One part of nostalgia, which I'm not going to linger on because I don't think it's that interesting, hindering personal growth. Too attached to certain memories makes it hard to embrace the past.
27:37I do think that people have, like, I should have not broken up with Bob. I would have been happier with Bob than I am with Phil, who I'm currently married to. That's not my experience but like I do think that people who are like my football career didn't work out and so now I'm going to glue a football into my five-year-old's hands and make sure that he becomes the greatest football player because I never got to do it we've talked about it on other podcasts it doesn't go great I mean I have at least two kids who I think might be interested in performance and have some talents and I'm very wary of being like I didn't win an Oscar but they could and Maybe that would fulfill the God-shaped hole of not winning an Oscar.
28:19It doesn't turn out well. It's not a great idea.
28:21Heidi Raykeil:I mean, I guess it's also like Glory Days recording song lyrics today, because clearly this is a thing that artists have been thinking about that it's not even there as a kid. It's like, I just want to keep telling you about remember when I caught that pass. Remember when you did this? Right. That there's something about that that can feel a little bit like that's a little subpar. You don't want to go to the reunion and just talk about how great things used to be as opposed to now when your life isn't particularly exciting. Right. When you're old and boring. Yeah. I think this gets more to Courtney's question.
28:48A study published in the European Journal of Social Psychology determined that after being exposed to nostalgic stimuli, participants who exhibited a strong worry habit showed enhanced symptoms of anxiety and depression compared to those with the same predisposition in the control group. So people who experience stress regularly might feel more feelings of sadness and anxiety when they think of a fond memory rather than feeling feelings of joy. And so sometimes nostalgia plays the role for us of it's all moving too fast. I didn't enjoy my babies enough when they had them. I have a son who's graduating and I was looking through old photos and videos.
29:31And I was like basically stabbing myself in the chest, like looking at my little kids on video being like saying adorable things and being like mommy look I was like okay why is that gone like why am I old I want mommy look again like I want these like fluffy duck-headed white curly haired adorable creatures looking to me for everything rather than like teenagers are slamming the door and calling me on thinking I'm dumb yeah and I just I did the thing that we always
30:06Heidi Raykeil:say you shouldn't do to parents here i was my mother's next-door neighbor is a young family so i met the mom and the kid is maybe like i'd say he's like 11 months old like just starting to walk and oh my god he is so cute oh you gave them the full crown didn't you did you say enjoy every moment didn't say enjoy every moment i just said like oh god it goes so fast i said we do you know i have kids in their 20s i'm like and it just goes so fast so fast i'm like and then as i'm saying i'm like why am i telling you this like it's true and the younger parent you're telling it to is like feeling some pressure to like, what am I supposed to do with this information?
30:37Heidi Raykeil:And there's nothing you can do about it. But you feel so like, I can't believe it's disbelief. It's not even that I want her to do anything. I am expressing this thing that I can't keep inside, which is this disbelief that somehow that was me not that long ago. I have insight for you. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back. It's so important for our kids to be confident in the water because then our kids will be safe. But then you have to deal with cold pools, cranky adults swimming laps right next to them, and getting in the water with the kids. Yuck. Amy, you're giving me flashbacks, but not anymore.
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33:25And now, there are some things that change, and it's not so great. From the What Fresh Elf podcast.
33:33Heidi Raykeil:Toddlers talk all the time. Teens don't talk at all, and it's somehow worse. We don't know why. Car seats. Good news, you don't have to buckle them in anymore. Bad news, they're in the front seat now with keys in their hand. Your tiny baby is driving the car. Getting babies to sleep versus getting teens to wake up. You know, that's a tie for terribleness. They are both really bad. Baby smells. Baby smells will be replaced by the smell of teenage feet. And all we can say is, you're not ready. Kids questions. As it turns out, who's your favorite member of the Paw Patrol is a lot easier than answering, why do good people die?
34:16Heidi Raykeil:We're sorry in advance. This has been There Are Some Things That Change and It's Not So Great. From the What Fresh Out podcast.
34:28At the University of Akron, Jennifer R. Turner and Jennifer Tahan Stanley explore in their paper published in Emotion that nostalgia is more common the older we get and tends to set off both positive and negative feelings.
34:47Heidi Raykeil:I guess that's it. And I think this makes a lot of sense. So age was a significant predictor of daily nostalgia. Young adults reported nostalgia 60 % less often than middle-aged adults. Older adults reported nostalgia three times more than middle-aged people. Gender was not a significant predictor of nostalgia. This is happening to all of us. Yeah, because the fun stuff is more and more fun stuff is piling up behind you. And there is a loss. Time is a loss. It's a gift and a loss. And we just have to be able to recognize that there is a sense of meaning in the past because you're experiencing that 11 month old as something you have lost.
35:29And you're trying to tell the mother of the 11 month old not to lose it, but she will lose it because time is the same for all of us. But I understand the instinct. I have become the enjoy every moment person, but nobody's going to enjoy every moment. But I have a lot more. I was talking about this recently and just saying like, I'm team crone coming out of the dark shadows of the supermarket being like, enjoy it and go so fast. But the fact is, time is good and bad. And nostalgia tends to focus the mind on what is most important for a good life, family, close friends, community, and the rituals and traditions that help preserve social and cultural fabric.
36:16And so you see the meaning of that much more as you get older. And across a number of studies, it has been observed that after engaging in nostalgic reflection, people feel more socially valued, loved, socially confident and optimistic about maintaining close relationships. That's my family and I on the Zoom being like, remember how we were then. But it also brings up negative feelings of reevaluation. Did I do it all correctly? Did I lose time? Why didn't I? I would give anything to spend a day with my two-year-old, three-year-old and five-year-old now. And at the time, I couldn't wait for them to go to bed.
37:01And both of those things are true. And you just have to hold them both at the same time.
37:06Heidi Raykeil:I'm trying to be a little more mindful in this Maycember craziness moment, right? That these are moments. This crazy time is a time that I will look back on with nostalgia. And so try to enjoy it the first time through and not just be annoyed that we're running late and doing this. And oh, my God, we have four things this week, four events we have to go to. Like someday I'll be like, remember when I used to have four events to go to? What a life. What a thrill it was. Just trying to hold a little bit of that in the now helps a little bit, I think. I think I have a solution for you. OK. The Boston Globe talks about the paradox of time.
37:42A common hurdle in parenting is the tension between being present and mourning the passage of time. Older generations often urge parents to cherish every second because it goes by in a flash. While it can be exhausting in the thick of it, many parents find themselves looking back on baby and toddler stages with intense longing. Facts already in evidence, right? Preserving these moments through photos, journals, or videos acts as a way to collect gems of the everydayness that might be forgotten over the years. So recording moments and then having time to look back at those moments, maybe with your kids, looking back through photo books.
38:21Your kids enjoy this too. We had a tradition that every Christmas Eve, we watched our old family movies every Christmas Eve. And watching my sister do her ridiculous ballerina routine while my brother picked her up and spent her around, it was a very joyful thing. So, like, you can lean into the joy of some of this nostalgia. And I'm going to give also the advice that someone gave at my wedding that I try to use. friends of ours who'd been married a long time when my husband and I were getting married said try to pick three moments in the day that you're like this is where we're focusing on each other we're not in the crowd we're not letting it fly by and we wrote down like first seeing each other as we came in first dance and like the moment we left I don't remember what the moments were we chose.
39:11The holy matrimony, the moment when. Oh gosh, the communion ceremony. That's right, the holiest moment. But basically saying to yourself at certain points, this is a moment I'm going to remember. Look at how much I'm enjoying this moment. And it might be one night at the dinner table, my son had made a crazy mistake at a track meet and he had run off. Basically a gun went off for a different race and he started running. And then when his gun went off he didn't run at all and he just had us in stitches talking about like okay so it's ready set go he's like nailed it ready I was ready set 100 % I got set it was go where I had the problem he was just telling us the story of this race and the five of us were just in stitches I don't remember what we were eating I remember anything and I was just like put this in the memory bank like just stop and enjoy the wonder of this moment because tomorrow we're going to be back to like did you fill out the camp form and did you this?
40:12And then I do think that like, please don't tape the entire second grade play on your iPad. You're never going to watch it again. But like just taking videos of them and taking pictures and then finding a way to like watch them together, you know, like, hey, let's go back. We just realized that my niece is doing the same play that my son did in second grade. And we're like, let's watch pieces of that show and how cute you were and how little you were. I'm a senior. We're making a lot of like reflective go back moments. We've done these for my dad's 90th. We had a slideshow playing in the background and my dad loved it so much.
40:51He's like, I just want to get drinks one night and watch it again so we can talk through it. We have a sponsor Skylight Frames. I have their frame. Sometimes at night, we just get cocktails and we just watch. I've loaded 4 ,000 pictures on it. Maybe we just watch it go by and we talk about it like letting ourselves enjoy the nostalgia and taking out the piece that is oh I wish it could be that way again it can't but like trying to enjoy the nostalgia and separating the pain away from it I think is a useful exercise we unfortunately have
41:24Heidi Raykeil:lost a lot of videos of when our kids were little like you know some computers switch over like I have almost none which makes me sad but you know oh well then then I don't can't feel bad we're not watch them enough. I find with pictures, the nostalgia works better with your kids. If I send my kids, I have an app on my phone that just pulls a different random video from my library every hour. It's not even an app. It's a setting and iPhone. Love it. I'm constantly being like, oh my God. And sending this like two-year-old photo of one of my kids to the kid. They don't have nostalgia for it. They don't remember it.
41:55Heidi Raykeil:Right. And they're like, oh yeah, it's a cute photo. Like they do not have the same relationship to that photo that I do. And that's okay. But I've learned over a time. You don't want to not be disappointed that they don't. They're not really into the photo of them dressed as a chicken when they were one and a half. It's just like it's not for them. The nostalgia that I feel is mine because I remember that I was there. They lived it, but they don't remember it. Their nostalgia comes when it's like your son. It's like, remember when I did this stuff that he does remember. That's what they like looking back on.
42:24I am glad you mentioned that. We used to watch our home videos. They had no sound. When we watch videos now, I'm just such an annoying person. And I'm always like, shall we do that again? Come on. Like my annoying voice being like, sing the song for grandma. It takes me out of it a little bit. Like I'm very for silent. And I think photos relieve you of that. Before we exit and we wrap nostalgia, I do want to say, I think there's something else that Courtney is getting at here. I'm going to link to the article because we're not going to discuss it at length. It's a New York Times article that talks about the MMMC.
43:02Do you know what it stands for, Amy?
43:03Heidi Raykeil:No. It's the Millennial Mom Midlife Crisis. Dr. Whitney Casares, the author of, and we'll maybe try to have her on the podcast, Doing It All, Stop Over-Functioning and Become the Mom and Person You're Meant to Be. Sounds exactly like my book. We could have traded titles. Yeah, exactly. Amy also wrote this book. But she related it to the Taylor Swift lyric, I did all the extra credit, then got graded on a curve. But the idea that women are graduating at much higher rates, young women are accomplishing many things and then being stuck with a lot of extra work. And this article quotes our friend and friend of the pod, Dr.
43:44Jean Twenge, who says there is a stinging realization that can plant the seeds for a millennial mom midlife crisis. while millennial women might have expected a more equitable home life they still in most cases do a larger share of the domestic work and household worrying and so i think the expectations of modern parents have grown along with the pressure for women to have careers and that may be part of people's feelings of i thought i was signing up for something that's a little different than I'm signing up for? And is this my beautiful life? So I'm going to link to that article as well.
44:29Heidi Raykeil:There's a special millennial mom's version of this, right, that we're kind of like in the next generation up. Yeah. And it talks about Gen X kind of fighting to change the expectations and then it didn't totally work out. But I think for all people, a midlife crisis is about the idea of like, this is how your life turned out. And that's a very shocking thing to reckon with. And your life is never finished until you're dead. Like things can change. And as I deal with older relatives, you know, some have regrets, some have a lot of joy looking back on how they live their lives. But everybody's life turns out differently than their plan for their life.
45:13And so I think it is very natural and you I guarantee will experience it at your reunion of looking at the young people and being like anything could happen to them. Anything could happen to them. And you don't want anything to happen to you anymore, right? Like, you really don't want your husband to run off and decide to be a painter in Paris with his new girlfriend, Emmanuel Leak, you know? But when you lose the feeling that anything can happen, you end up a little bit with David Byrne singing, is this my beautiful life? I guess it's universal and so it's okay.
45:49Heidi Raykeil:Yeah. And that's what Skylight Frames are for. And that's what Skylight Frames are for. A little nostalgia dopamine hit whenever you need one. And yes, Courtney, you are not alone in hitting a phase of life where you are finding yourself both nostalgic and children growing older, parents aging, and the window of this phase of parenting beginning to shut. You are having all the feels, and that is a universal feeling, and it has been studied. Can I give you a bit of advice that is actually very applicable here, I think? pleased to. I did a Broadway play. Still was like the highlight of my career.
46:29Heidi Raykeil:And I was very worried while I was doing it that once it was over, I would never have a job that good again. Guess what? I didn't. It was the it was the highlight of my acting career. I did other things, but nothing that was as like completely thrilling as this. We did 200 performances. Our last performance was like the 205th. And I was so sad that it was our last performance. Kelly Bishop was in it with me, who was the mom in Dirty Dancing. And then she went on to be the grandmother in Gilmore Girls. She was in it with me and she looked at me right before the last performance started and she said it's our last show don't say goodbye to every line don't go through it you know being sad and saying goodbye to each line just do the last performance because it would be indulgent I think to say goodbye to every line but also because then you miss last performance where you're so sad that it's the last performance.
47:10Heidi Raykeil:So I think it's like you just go you do this stuff you face this stuff your kid senior year whatever and you're in it don't miss it thinking about how sad it is that it's almost over just enjoy the last performance. Yeah. And Courtney said at the beginning, it's a rhetorical question, which is funny because we did a whole episode about it, but she's right. Like, this is how your career turned out. This is the man or woman you've chosen. These are the kids you gave birth to. And that has a lot of meaning. Yeah. Good, bad, happy, and sad. I love it. We didn't solve it, but at least we're like, yeah, yeah, that's a thing.
47:43Heidi Raykeil:That's a thing. And we all feel it. Absolutely. Unsolvable, but still a very useful conversation. You know, we talk a little bit about What Fresh Health Plus. Sometimes people don't know what this is. It is a very special way that you can support the show and get access not only to a completely ad-free feed of our entire archive, plus monthly bonus episodes where we talk about sort of non-parenting things, sometimes pretty silly, and give our What Fresh Health Plus listeners a little extra episode every month. So I'm going to put the link in the show notes for this episode. It's just a couple of taps.
48:17Heidi Raykeil:You can start listening where you already listen. You don't have to sign up for anything new. And it's a great way to support the show. I love those conversations. Check us out. I think you'll enjoy them. And with that, thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next time. Thanks, everybody.
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From the publisher
Sign up for WFH Plus at http://whatfreshhell.supportingcast.fm/!
How does the powerful emotional pull of nostalgia connect to that midlife feeling of "how did I get here?" Why do we love looking back?
In this episode, we discuss:
Why nostalgia increases during periods of transition and uncertainty (aging parents, growing children, career reckonings)
The psychology and science behind nostalgia and memory
Why parents often romanticize the baby and toddler years
How nostalgia can deepen meaning, connection, and self-understanding
Healthy ways to honor memories without getting stuck in the past
Here are links to some of the resources mentioned in the episode:
University of Florida Medical Physiology Online: The Psychology of Nostalgia
Emily Reynolds for The British Psychological Society: We feel more nostalgic as we get older
Clay Routledge for the Institute for Family Studies: Nostalgia Reveals the Importance of Family and Close Relationships
Joe Keohane for the Boston Globe: Why Does Parenthood Make Us Nostalgic?
Hannah Seligson for the NYT: Being a Mother Is Hard Work. Is It Actually Harder on Millennial Moms?
"The House That Built Me" by Miranda Lambert
What Fresh Hell is co-hosted by Amy Wilson and Margaret Ables.
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website:
https://www.whatfreshhellpodcast.com/p/promo-codes/
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