Alice Han: Chinamaxxing

24:30Yeah, exactly. And who's going to drive productivity when you have ever shrinking labor force and ever shrinking youth population? So that's the demographic challenge. And they're trying to subsidize it by giving people more money to have babies. But women, this is the thing that's understated, I think, in Western media. And this is why it's actually, if you watch videos on Chinese TikTok, there's a lot of... Is that Weibo? It's Douyin, like Douyin and Xiaohongshu, which is red note. That last part? Xiaohongshu. Xiaohongshu? Yeah. Because sometimes I feel like you like Xiaohongshu. Xiaohongshu.

25:09I can roll like that Thank you Eugene Thank you Oh my god You have such a good accent Oh Thank you very much Yeah no seriously Seriously You could go on To Chinese TV Okay Oh damn Damn Oh Eugene Excuse me A wise man once said Compliments are best When they are shared With others So please Alice please carry on Carry on

25:34What was I saying It was demography Yeah you're talking about demography And you're talking about Chinese oh okay so girl bossing is a it's a huge trend on chinese tiktok okay so women telling other women don't go and get married and have kids find a younger man and just enjoy your life and really this you know you you know this is the funny thing about like the world you know you're going to excited no it is you know why second system effects you know i love them yeah all right the concept that we we never know what the effect of something will be the second effect of something will be. Okay, so we know that we're going to make a computer.

26:13We don't know that the computer will lead to the internet. We know that we'll have the internet. We don't know that the internet will lead to e-commerce. We don't know that e-commerce will lead to, we don't know, we don't know, we don't. You can do anything in life, but you don't know what the second system effect will be. You can't always predict it. One of the things I think we've taken for granted with choice in general for men and women, contraception, all of these things that we've come up in society is people now can choose whether or not they want to have kids. And we're basically living in like the first sort of generation where that's a possibility.

26:45If you think about like the last maybe 100 years, maybe even less, it's the first time where people can like choose how they want to live their lives before life just happened to you. And now if people choose how they live their lives, it might not go well is what we are learning. But we don't know how it's going to end. Do you know what I mean? Thank you What? How do you say How do you say like I get it I get it I get it I get it I get it I get it I get it I get it So But You are part of the problem Or you could say That the men may be a part of it Take some ownership You're at your prime You're doing this incredible work Eugene was sent here By your parents By the way The thought of settling down here now, where are we at with it?

27:39Because I'm sure if they see someone who's in your position doing what you're doing, doing it, you can influence some people into having kids for$50 ,000. You mean be an Asian trad wife? Well. The Asian version of secret life of Mormons. But why is it not fashionable anymore for young women who are successful and professional in China to aspire to having a partner and having children? There's a couple of reasons. You see this as a global phenomenon. Once you get to a certain degree of per capita GDP or economic outcomes in a country, and that translates to education outcomes for women, they decide that the trade-off of having babies versus incremental growth in their career becomes not an attractive prospect.

28:25So they focus on their career as opposed to having more babies. But in the China context, I have the hypothesis, which is that the one-child policy, back to your point about unintended consequences, meant that you had, for the first time in Chinese history, because China is a country I'm sure you guys are familiar with, this concept of having many children is a fortuitous thing, especially boys. is a Chinese expression. The more boys you have, the more lucky the family is. They changed that with the one child policy, which is government intervention. And then I think, I don't think of any other country in history where you have mass concentration of parental time, energy, and resources on one kid.

29:10And if that's a girl, then you were expecting that girl to go out and conquer and get a PhD, run companies, do incredible things. She became the one child. Yeah, she's incentivized to be successful financially. Yes, she's the one child. All resources are pooled towards her. Towards her as opposed to a brother, you know. That's something we take for granted as well is when we live in a world where everything has become hyper-competitive, getting into a school, getting a job, etc., etc., etc., it means that it's safer for you to put all your resources into one child than to disperse your resources amongst many.

29:49Because if you have one child, you can afford their tutor, you can afford their extracurricular activities, you can afford their piano lessons. But if you have many children, you now risk having a wonderful Brady Bunch who just like plays with toys and has fun, but they may not be elite. You can't afford to make them all elite. I see it happening in South Africa. if you look at mostly female users of TikTok and Instagram and not Twitter that much, in South Africa, it's usually professional women in their late 20s or early 30s who do not have children, who maybe on weekends are running, doing some cooking content and decorating.

30:31And you think to yourself, this was a generation that was raised by two parents working government job or maybe sometimes even in retail in the township. And they mostly are the first generation to leave the township, be in the suburbs, become an accountant, a doctor. But it's so rare that they use five times of what their parents used to earn combined to just facilitate the lifestyle of hobbies. Oh, interesting. So I usually do this experiment. When my daughter was younger, I would look at race. I would go Afrikaans people versus black people. So black people in a private school, you'd see them driving one child in a fancy car.

31:07Afrikaans people, Afrikaans women, would drive four kids in a crappier car. So they would spend most of their money educating the kids that they have. And then the black people on the other end, you would see spending most of their money in a lifestyle for one child. So we're seeing that happening over and over again. There's more single affluent black women than there are in the other way around. And it's becoming more and more trendy for people to climb the corporate ladder instead of prioritizing families. And I find it weird in our country because I'm like, us in our early 40s, we are products of those women.

31:41Yeah, we are. Who are earning very little, but managed to have more than one child that went to a public school and managed to find their way in the world. And I'm thinking to myself, where did it all go wrong? Actually, what is the breakdown? While we're still talking about demographics in China, we're seeing this trend around the world. Is it the same in China where the men are now becoming less favored in the workplace or are finding themselves in a hyper-competitive world where they're actually losing a bit of the race. Is that also seen in China or is it different? Not to the same degree, and it's not talked about as much as it is in the West.

32:16Okay. And certainly not as much as Korea, where I know there is a right-wing incel movement that is anti-women because, to your point, they feel as though the deck is increasingly stacked against them. That hasn't quite happened as of yet. but i think more importantly is this kind of um you know consternation especially amongst men that they can't find women because one like one of the other unintended consequences although you could have easily predicted this based on human nature is we've got a massive um uh skewed towards the male population as opposed to female so there are way more men in my generation in china than there are women because of the one child policy because the one child policy and people favored they would rather have one son rather than a daughter.

33:03And as a result, dating is just really tough. The barrier to entry to date as a Chinese man historically, and still is present today, is you've got to have your own apartment, your own car, a really stable job. And that's really, really tough. And that's why we were talking about this earlier. There's been a trend on social media in terms of vloggers, but it's been happening really since Russia, Ukraine, of Chinese men going out and finding Ukrainian women and bringing them back to China. No ways. And the Ukrainian women have really popular vlogs saying how great China is compared to Russia or Ukraine and how great Chinese men are compared to Russian men because they're responsible financially.

33:45They take care of the kids. They take care of their women. It's a fascinating thing. One last data point. I was in Shanghai a couple of weeks ago and in Tomorrow Square, which is right in the central of Shanghai, there are now these matchmakers that just sit out there and I literally saw hundreds of them in the square in the park I've seen this yes with posters of their children 170 man I like this I've seen this yeah but not even a picture of them it's just their just the data the data wait so they said I saw this it's like they're bartering that people are like yeah someone comes in and goes I've got it yeah I've got this guy it's sort of like an auction as well right like people are like I'll pay you this for this.

34:28No, I'll give you this much. I'll give you this much. And it's like a whole, I didn't know there was a real thing, but now you made me realize maybe the solution to the world's problems is we just need to figure out, yes, that, but also we just need to figure out where everybody's polar opposite answer lies. In arranged marriages. Maybe, but what I mean is this. Who would have thought the perfect companion for Ukrainian women was Chinese men? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. All along. So I'm saying wherever you are out there, you are a Chinese man or whatever you are. You are a Ukrainian woman or whatever you are.

35:07And you might be struggling in your market, as you say. Little do you know, there's a market out there that is pining for you and is more perfect for you. What a business opportunity. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, 100%. We could start this, the three of us. Where would South Africans go? I'll leave those ones. They've done enough. What we need to focus on is the auntie in the park auction. No, but you know what's actually funny is I actually think South Africans are lucky in this regard because we have such a melting pot. So if you look at South Africans now, I would argue our generation more than our parents' generation has intermingled.

35:45So like our parents' generation was more likely to be your mother, your father, your mother. And there were a few outliers here and there. But I think over the years It's become more common For people To cross pollinate And say Yes Oh I like those men From that culture Because they're actually More like this And I like those women From that culture Because they're more like that And so people will find themselves You know Zulu, Tswara, Tsonga Wherever They just find themselves Mixing in a different way But this weird phenomenon That happened when apartheid ended And the world opened up A little bit Is when South African white men Started traveling to Eastern Europe Like Bosnia and Chechnya After the war And then there would be in hotels and then this hot blonde would just come in and they were like wait wait wait wait you work here and the person would be like yeah that's what i do yeah they didn't they didn't know that was a thing you're coming home with me yeah they didn't know that was a thing and then they would be now most of them are the owners of these bnbs and these fancy neighborhoods that obviously got gentrified and acquired so much value yeah and when you ask most of them where they came from they're like i met my husband on a business trip when south africa opened up and they came to south africa and were like i appreciate all of what you're doing you work hard but a woman from here would have never seen your value.

36:53But I think that's what's happening now in China, right? When Chinese men go out there, they're like, yo, you don't know how hot I am in Ukraine. I'm changing all day long. Good for them. I love that actually. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Everything in one place to move your money forward. Banking, investing, borrowing, and more. Make your first move with SoFi Checking and Savings. Competitive APY, no account fees, and a direct deposit bonus. Terms apply. Get started today at SoFi.com slash smart money.

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38:46How easy is it to move to China? Because from what I've read, China's not necessarily like an immigration country. No, no. But I think Japan is less of it. Well, Japan's starting to change now. When I was in Japan, sorry to cut you off, when I was in Japan, there were newspaper articles. It was interesting because our tour guide was translating it for us. But there were whole newspapers. You made your tour guide translate newspaper articles? I didn't make, please. I didn't make anyone do anything, Eugene. He has the tour guide. I was just saying, what's in the news today? And then he was telling me some of the stories.

39:18And then he said, not much. No. And then he said, no, really? What's in the news today? Yeah, I was just asking because I'm curious. I wanted to know what's happening in Tokyo while we're there. Right. And one of the big stories in the newspaper was a continuing discussion where they would, essentially the headline was, should Japanese people be less xenophobic because they're fully like, we don't want anyone who's not Japanese here. Don't bring them into our country. We're not mixing cultures. But then the article is like, it was weird because the article was basically like, we agree we shouldn't let anyone in, but it's not working.

39:58But we agree we shouldn't let anyone in, but what are we going to do about this? Should we maybe bring, maybe we should start bringing people in who want to learn Japanese and want to learn Japanese culture and they want to become Japanese. Maybe we start with them. And then we were out having sushi at a, you know, those tiny, tiny, tiny little place, like beautiful sushi places, can only see six. And I was there with a Japanese man and his wife who had offered to take me with them. Wait. And while we were there. Wait. Wait, what? You were there in a six-seater Japanese restaurant in Japan. Yes.

40:32Because it's just a restaurant. It's not a Japanese restaurant. This is true. You're right, yes. And this couple wanted to take you out for dinner? Yes. And where did you meet this couple? I'd met the husband in San Francisco. And so he said, if you ever come to Japan, look me up. You did. I don't think he meant it, but I looked him up. And then he was like, wow, you're here. And I was like, yes, I would love to go and have sushi. So he took me. We went to this place. The chef is making the food. It's amazing. Some of the best sushi I've ever had. And then I think there were Americans. Yeah, but an American couple walked in, and then the chef was like, no, we're closed.

41:10And then they're like, oh, and they looked at us, and we're guilty with our chopsticks. You know when you're like mid, and they're like, we're closed. And they looked at us like, you can't be closed. And I was like, yo, I'm not trying to not get the sushi. I was like, yeah, I mean, whatever's happening here. they left and then the the chef said to them uh yeah i i don't allow non-japanese people into the restaurant but it was interesting why he said because i do not believe that i can provide the best level of service to people who do not understand me and i don't understand them yeah and so if i don't speak their language this is not going to be the the experience it needs to be and so they i don't allow them in here and there were many places like that in japan but then i asked us like yeah but how does that do for business and he said well we're actually struggling because of that because there are many sushi spots that are allowing foreigners in and i can only rely on the locals and and we're struggling and so it's interesting to see how this thing is like all over the world it's like how how much immigration do you allow because without it You can't replace your population.

42:16Maybe robots. But I think this is where cultures really... Maybe robots. Cultures are table robots in a second. We're definitely not going to forget robots. Especially not sex robots in Japan. Hey, hey, hey! Why don't you just lead with that? Geopolitical economist. Sex robot. Advocate. Nazo. Trevor, bring the loop. We're going to China, my friend. They produce the most robots in the world. Okay, so this is where culture is really important. So Japan, historically, you know, you had the Meiji Restoration, this closing off of Western influence because they feel very fearful of that and very strong and convicted, and they should in their traditions and culture.

43:02But I think if I compare it to China, which is by no means perfect, China has culturally more curiosity and open-mindedness towards the West. this is why it was able to invite a lot of foreign investment in the 80s and 90s obviously copycat it imitate it and then iterate on it and make it better um but you also see it at a um in terms of an anecdotal level like i go to a bookstore in china and i see elon musk and his mother's face everywhere may musk like she's a freaking star in china really they are obsessed with the family but that goes to show you the reason i cite that and he apparently he was offered a green card by the then premier a couple of years ago before COVID because they just loved him so much in China when he started building the Shanghai Gigafactory.

43:48Right, right. But that shows you that Chinese culturally have a very pragmatic utilitarian approach to foreigners, which is like, oh, you're going to bring me money and business? You can come. I'll serve you. And, oh, by the way, I'm going to try to make it better than you. Right, yeah. I'm going to learn from you, yeah. In a couple of years' time, I won't need you. But please come so we can learn from what you're doing and then build EVs. China now builds 70 % of the world's EV production. And this is only in the last five years, which is insane that they've really ramped up that level of production.

44:21So that was a wait. So I'm just trying to make sure we don't. It was the, so the, I think we're on the third D, right? This is the third D. And then the fourth D, actually really quickly before the fourth D is the robot question. Yes. Is whether or not robots can fill up some of the gaps in productivity that will be caused by aging. We can discuss that later, but that's a huge question. China is the biggest producer of robots in the world. 80 % of robotic installations are made in China. 80 %? 80%. That's bigger than the next four countries combined. Damn. So that's really dominating. And I just heard recently in China that they have over 100 ,000 robotics companies in China.

45:00That's, again, the misconception people have is that China's not super competitive. It is a super competitive ecosystem where companies are very cutthroat. They scale very quickly because there's a huge market. This is 1.4 trillion people compared to the 300 billion or so in, say, the US. It's like a huge market that they can service. So maybe robots, I'm a little bit doubtful, but that's another kind of - Oh, we'll get to the - Okay, we'll table robots. And then fourth D is destruction, which is the other challenge. It's related to Taiwan. Are we going to have in the next couple of years a big showdown?

45:35over Taiwan. How real is that though? Because it feels like that's been on everyone's lips for the longest time. It's in the same way and you know not to flatten these topics down but like in the same way the world has been warned about Iranian missiles like for decades. Iran's going to make a nuke. Iran's going to make a nuke. And it's like here we are decades later and they still haven't made a nuke. How real is the threat of China invading Taiwan? Because to me it seems imminent but I remember even when I was like on the daily show and we were covering it it felt like it was weeks away and then weeks later it felt like weeks away and then it was weeks and then I was like oh it's been years and still weeks away and then even now when I read the news they're like I think it's happening I think it's happening next week I think it's happening next week I think it's happening next week and then I remember watching videos of people who live in Taiwan and then they were just like chilled yeah but the media that I was consuming in America was going oh man it's very stressful it's about to happen it's about to happen so like how how real is the threat i certainly don't think it's real in the next two years there's a lot of internal politics that i can get into in just a bit in china years though in the next two years i think it's highly unlikely okay but fast forward 10 years or more i think the probabilities go up uh mainly because uh you know the chinese will start to have superiority in terms of military balance of power especially if the US doesn't do more to really invest in military defense capabilities.

47:03And certainly you've seen in the last couple of years that the spending on debt has outpaced the spending on the military. This is a law in history coined by my boss, Neil Ferguson, called Ferguson Law. So shout out to him, which is that he looked at empires through history. And whenever an empire was spending more on repaying its debt, its debt interest payment growth was outpacing how much it was spending on the military that was the number one signal red light uh red signal that they were in decline and this happened in the british empire the dutch empire the the spanish empire so you can go back and trace it back in time as soon as they're paying more on this repaying their debt than they are for their military they're in decline what is what is the correlation what why are they in decline because they are spending more on repaying how much they owe to their creditors instead of building up their military capabilities.

47:56Forgive me, I don't understand why the military is the key signifier. Why not like they're spending more on their debt versus more on, I don't know, infrastructure and manufacturing. Why military specifically? So in historical periods, and it's questionable whether or not it's relevant today, empires were overtaken by other powers through military campaigns. So seeing things like the the British win against the Spanish Armada in 1588. These military campaigns oftentimes spell a decline in the economic power of a country because if Britain has more ships and is more powerful than Spain, and Spain's not able to get more control of the seas, and trade goes down, they can't get the same amount of silver from Latin America.

48:48And meanwhile, Britain, because it has more ships out there, it can develop trade routes and control those trade routes via the British East India Company, for instance. So there you have the mix of both the military and the commerce, right? So the question is, is that relevant today? I do think it is because ultimately the Taiwan question is both a political and a military question. The military question is, will the balance of power shift in the region, in Asia Pacific, in favor of the Chinese? Right now, the Americans still have supremacy when it comes to naval equipment, nuclear submarines, air denial systems as well.

49:32China's massively catching up though, and the next couple of years may have more PLA ships than the Americans. uh but also related to that america has more operational experience doing combat it's been fighting it's been fighting america stays in the gym bro don't play with america it does don't play you know what i learned i saw this with russia ukraine russia has just been talking and then when it came down to it you're like ah ah you haven't been yo america stays match ready all the time you want to go to war america's fighting one right now where it doesn't matter ready baby yeah but then the guys we meet in the elevator going down always ready but it's like those guys on steroids yeah because then you question whether or not they have the will to keep fighting that's the big problem that's the big question that's why you're single you question too much the guy can fight that's the problem with the US I love your brain oh man that was so funny he has the will to keep fighting it's like it's like it's like wrestling where it's a lot of show.

50:35Yes, yes, yes. But then the question is, why did they lose Vietnam? Because they didn't have the political will to keep fighting. Oh, that's interesting. And that's the second domain, which is the politics. Like Taiwan is way more important to China than it is to the median US voter. Yeah, yeah. Most Americans don't know what it is or why it's important. In fact, they can't even separate. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, because to your point, you even see it like now with Iran, the appetite that the American, the average American person has for the war in Iran. First of all, even before it started, they didn't want it.

51:08But people are like, I don't know why we're doing this. And I don't want us to be doing this. All right. But to your point, they have more leverage in America's politics than the Chinese media would in China's expansion if they went into China, into Taiwan. Yeah. That's an interesting way to think about it. And then Xi Jinping, the president, has time on his side. He's 72 this year He's still a young man He's still relatively young Still a young man Compared to American presence A fresh young lotus That's what he is Living his dream Xi Jinping Are we saying it right When we say Xi Jinping Or is it backwards?

51:46Oh no it's right Xi Jinping It's the last name first Okay it is Xi Jinping Because I remember When we found out Shinzo Abe It was Abe Shinzo And we were saying We were basically saying His name backwards The whole time And then all of a sudden Someone was like No it's wrong no he he's got it he's got it right yeah exactly what what is what has made him so successful like it seems like every again when you read western media and this is something by the way that i think is interesting to your point i only realized the other day china is one of the few like major countries where its news is also being written in its language So if you cannot read Chinese Or Mandarin, Cantonese Whichever one is being written in You are missing out on a lot of the nuance And the actual reporting and storytelling That's happening in the country Does that make sense?

52:39So you're just going like Oh we're looking at numbers We're looking at data We're looking at numbers But we don't go there physically And we also don't read or listen To what the people are actually saying That's another thing that I was thinking about But again from what I read That is in English they'll say like Xi Jinping is he's just leagues ahead of his predecessors and he's he's got like a an iron grip on the country and a focus that no one has ever really had in the in the modern age at least how true is that and why is it that he's being so successful in implementing his vision of what the party is trying to do I well the fastest way to answer that is that he has elements of Mao and I don't see it as a form of criticism.

53:23If you look back in history, what Mao understood and part of the reason why he was successful, even though he had a wilderness period in the 50s where he was out of the party for a bit, or he's still in the party, but he was not in the elite party leadership. He came back because he understood that power lived not in the elite policymakers, the elite CCP apparatchiks, but in the people. So he had this concept of the mass line where it's like from the people to the people. Interesting. That if you, and this obviously led to some of the bad parts of history, like the Red Guard, the Cultural Revolution, because you want to stir up political fervor and nationalism.

54:04He understood that if the people love you and they see you as this charismatic leader, that's the only thing that matters. And part of what she has been successful in doing relative to his two previous successes is to build up this sort of cult of personality and to build up this nationalist fervor. He calls it the great Chinese dream. And he even said it in the summit, that state banquet when Trump was there, that he said, make America great again can coexist with his own slogan, which is the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. So he has these very patriotic, jingoistic language, which to some extent, other authoritarian leaders like Putin and Modi have as well.

54:49But he's been able to leverage that to have a mass appeal. And obviously what's helped him is that he has now this external aggressor, in traditional Chinese communist terms, this paper tiger or imperialist power, which is America. Right, okay. And only a strong man like Xi, who has the will of the people, who can see the future, he calls himself the great helmsman. He can help chart the course in these very choppy, difficult geopolitical waters. And then the last bit, which I think has made him successful, is that like Deng Xiaoping, he understands politics, the game of politics. And he has been leading these anti-corruption campaigns and promoting his own people in order to again consolidate his power through all arms, whether it's not just the party, it's also the PLA, it's the intelligence system.

55:48It's really all levels of the party. He has been raising a lot of loyalists and that again, consolidates his power within the party. So in some respects, he's a combination of both leaders, but I think he's been very successful in building himself up ultimately as a charismatic leader do you do i mean i wouldn't say do they see it because i guess they do but like it feels like america is withdrawing from the world and in that withdrawal it feels like china is filling in the void so many americans i think sometimes will take for granted that part of the reason america is as powerful as it is and has been as powerful as it has been is primarily because of its soft power america didn't go around the world blowing up the world to get the power it had.

56:35It went to Africa with things like USAID. It helped European governments build themselves up after World War II. It gave low interest loans. It really became the benefactor of the world. It helped with trade. It inspired people. Yeah, it was really the sugar daddy of the world. And that made the world like America and aspire to America. Over the past few years, we've seen America take a step back and go, hey, America is America. We don't want anything to do with the rest of the world, don't involve us, and that's that. And then you see it in Africa. China has gone in and has built ports and built roads and railways and airports and created these interesting agreements where the Chinese will never lose in the deal.

57:18So it's like either they get their money back or they now own infrastructure in Africa. We've seen the Chinese reach out to Brazil and create new deals that never existed for soy exports, etc. etc within china what do you think they are seeing with america pulling back and what do you think they're trying to do like is there a concerted effort to fill the gap or is it just them creating another version of a silk road yeah uh lots of people talk about policymakers in china as being majority engineers and in the way that uh is different from the u.s by the majority lawyers But the other thing that I think is interesting about policymakers is that they are very keen historians.

58:01A lot of them read history. And they have looked at American history and gone, actually, it's not that great to be everyone's enabler and sugar daddy. You know, there's just a lot of these commitments that you have to make. Obligations. On obligations. Expectations. You know, it's far better if, you know, actually, we have trade with all these different countries and we help them build infrastructure that actually accelerates trade. They buy more of our products and we can get more commodities like cobalt and lithium from Africa so that we don't have any supply chain problems like the Americans and Europeans have had.

58:35So we can really dominate across technologies and supply chains. That is the thinking, which is let's have more influence globally, but maybe more preeminence regionally in Asia where we're looked to as within a tributary system, we're looked to as the center. But I don't think policymakers have this view that it's worthwhile or worth their while to become the next global policeman, the next sugar daddy, because they've seen what that means, you know, costly battles, increasing deficit spending in the American context. And they increasingly look at the model in America and see a lot of problems.

59:11But one last thing I'll say, which I think is underappreciated. appreciated. So in the 1990s, the G7 countries comprised about 70 % of global GDP. Okay. Today, that's only 40 % G7 countries. And the global south now represents about 40 % of global GDP and rising, the global south. So countries like South Africa, Brazil, India, China. China and by the population is 85%, which is crazy. 85 % of the world lives in the global south. And China's big bet is the global south. Back to the demographic thing. Yeah, that's where growth lies. That is where there's a young labor force. That's where economies are still growing.

59:59And that's where you have markets that could still grow to buy your goods. So I don't think that's understood enough in the West where we have a very navel-gazing approach, which is like, The only game in town is a G7. It's increasingly not true. The balance of power is shifting. Don't press anything. We've got more What Now after this. This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Your money should work as hard as you do, but most of us leave it sitting and checking, doing nothing. SoFi checking and savings changes that. Competitive APY, no account fees, and a direct deposit bonus.

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1:01:51How do people on the ground feel in China? Because again, that's another one of those things where if you just like read the media, they'll always make it seem like, Western media makes it seem like people in China are clamoring to get out. Yeah, they're not having a good time. Clamoring. They're like, you thank your lucky stars that you don't live in China because, oh, they would dream to live in a country where there's 600 tv channels and 15 kinds of nut milk you don't understand how tough it is you don't understand already in china just that's hilarious but that's yeah there's more variety actually in certain foods in china it is just so you know you but this so so what is the average chinese and i know you're not speaking for everyone but like what is the average chinese person experiencing of china and what are they like do you know what i mean how are they viewing china so there's a good side and the bad side the good side is you know everyone everyone else is having a worse time look at they have this narrative okay there's just so much crime and guns in america and racism increasingly they don't want people like us you know and and you know trump has just put in this new um green card policy that makes it harder for people to stay while they're getting their green cards oh yes now you You have to go, you have to leave the country, which seems like a trap.

1:03:05Yeah, exactly. And then, but the flip side of it is, you know, people do feel like the economy is slowing down. There's this concept you always hear in the media in the West, this concept of lying flat, which is, you know, why would you be in the rat race and work super hard when you can only get so much money and, you know, deflation is happening in the economy and there's not as many jobs, you know, youth unemployment's still close to 20%. So young people in China feel a little bit depressed about the economy and where it's heading relative to their parents' generation, which was in the boom years.

1:03:41But they still look at the rest of the world and go, well, I'd rather this than unsafe, unstable systems where you don't know if you have a very right-wing government that comes in or a left-wing government that changes all the policies and trains don't run on time. You know, that's the social contract, which is they'd much rather an efficient, stable, safe system than, just to put it very simply, the kinds of democratic, liberal freedoms that people in the West say are, you know, of prime importance. I mean, yeah, look, a simple example is you look at California has been saying they're going to build a high speed rail system for more than a decade now.

1:04:22They still haven't gotten it done. Hyperloop. Yeah, not even Hyperloop. Hyperloop was Elon. Okay. They were saying they're going to build one. I guess it was going all the way up to San Francisco, so it was supposed to. And this project was supposed to happen, and it's just money and nothing's going on. And then in the meantime, China has interconnected all of its cities with insanely fast maglev rail. But again, is that an accurate, because I haven't been there? Is this an accurate depiction of it? Yeah, and the gigantic structures in Chongqing, they just had the world's biggest elevator. It's the longest elevator in the world.

1:04:58It takes, sorry, escalator, not elevator. Oh, escalator. It takes about 20, 25 minutes to go from bottom to the top. 25 minutes on an escalator. Yo, bro. Imagine you drop your bag on that escalator. Have you ever dropped a bag on an escalator? Drop yourself. Yo, Eugene. After 15 minutes, you're like, ah, ah, ah. Eugene, ah, Eugene. Because the escalator goes up and you go down and you go nowhere. You know, you fall in for so long. that people have time to process their grief. Eugene. I mean, we lived a good life with Eugene, if we're honest. I mean, it was a good one. He was a great guy. He was, yeah, man.

1:05:36It was 20 minutes on a man. 30, right? No, 20 to 25 minutes. I can't remember the exact distance, but you should look it up. It goes from the base to the top of the mountain.

1:05:53Oh, my God. It really does. Yeah, it feels like China's just doing impossible things most of the time. I was reading about BYD the other day. Oh, maybe this is... Yeah, you're the perfect person to ask this. Why? Why was I reading about BYD? No, why is she the perfect person to ask? Because she knows about China and she knows about economics. And you know none of these things. Even though I ask you about them every day. You don't try and learn shit out here telling me about beard oil. That's the real BYD. so beard your dream so um byd for a long time was considered the laughing stock of car manufacturers right there's like one video of elon musk in particular like laughing in an interview they go what about byd and he's like well have you seen their cars and then you you fast forward a few decades and byd you see not only do they have one of the most successful cars one of the best electric cars they've got superior battery technology in terms of range in terms of charging speed in terms of like how they use it in the car you then you see even the the pipeline they've created where they've got their own ships shipping the cars to brazil to canada etc etc and and then i was reading this really interesting story about like how they're saying oh it's not going to last.

1:07:16BYD is not going to last like this because right now they're being subsidized by the government. And the Chinese government is doing a good job of propping up many of its industries to make it seem like they're doing better than they actually are. Now, I'm not an economist, but the first thought that came to my mind was like, yeah, but many countries subsidize their industries. So I couldn't really understand what the issue was. But I wondered if there's any truth to the house of cards in China's economy or if this is being overblown. So to unpack that, you can't deny the fact that BYD is now the biggest producer and exporter of EVs.

1:07:52It's overtaken Tesla in the last couple of months. And if you've been in one, you understand why it's so appealing. It's cheaper. My first one was in Singapore. It's insane. It's a great user experience, both as a driver and a passenger. Yes, there are huge subsidies that have been put in place to support the EV sector. That has been part of the ability for the EV sector, and in particular BYD, to scale. so quickly. But they are starting to walk that back. So in the last couple of months in particular, they're trying to get rid of some of the subsidies, the export tax rebates. Again, trying to make it a bit more competitive domestically and globally because they now understand, hey, the Europeans and Brazilians don't like the fact that we're giving them cheap EVs.

1:08:37We would have thought they would like it because this is great for green technology. But now they're starting to understand it's not just about green technology and market competition. It's also about a lot of these countries fearing the flooding of Chinese goods. And so now you're starting to see them get unwind some of these subsidies for the sector. But in general, I think the problem is that the subsidies are so large. This is the subsidies that China puts on, whether it's solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles, batteries. much larger than say even the Europeans or other countries put on to support their sector, that it is no longer seen as fair competition by a lot of these other countries.

1:09:22And because China is still acting in the framework of a developing economy, even though in many respects, because of its technology boom, it's no longer a developing economy. It uses that as an excuse to have the massive subsidies that it has for the green technology sector. And that's the problem that the Europeans and Brussels have, I'll say the Brazilians or the G7 countries like Canada or Australia have about sort of the flood of cheap electric vehicles is that the government has historically done huge amounts of subsidies to support its local industry. it's a it's a it's such a fascinating time because China always seems to be looming but you never know when the threat will ever be realized or if it is even a threat because what you know sometimes people talk about China as if it is waiting to take over the world but then whenever I listen to what Chinese politicians will say publicly at least they're like China has no interest in taking over the world China's interest is in making China the best in China.

1:10:30And they'll always say like, we've been around for 5 ,000 years. We have no interest in going anywhere. Look at how big we are. Our goal is just to make this the shining beacon in the world. And it's interesting to see how different those two viewpoints are. The one viewpoint for most of the West is when a country is that big and that powerful, it's inevitable that it goes out. And then the Chinese leaders will be like, no, no, no, no, you go out. We don't go out. We are going in and we're trying to extend our tentacles to grow this thing as big as possible. Where does the truth lie as you see it?

1:11:01Historically, it's control the home base. Now more in the last couple of decades, it's about having influence globally. We talked about commodity supply chains, even to some extent geopolitics. But I look to history. So the last time China went out to Africa in imperial history was in the Ming Dynasty in the 1500s. There was this Muslim eunuch captain who was an amazing figure in Chinese history who went out all the way to Africa and brought back a giraffe to the emperor's court. And that was the last time. After that, they decided, hey, why are we going to Africa? It's too expensive. We should just focus on our own great culture and economy and system.

1:11:48And the other thing that I would say is that I don't think this is understood enough. Historically, China has been controlled, if you go to imperial history, by non-Han people. So the Han Chinese are the majority of the Chinese. Okay. I think close to 90 % of the population. But if you look at the Qing Empire, which was the last empire in China, that was the Manchurians, that area that is the Korean Peninsula and northeast China. They are not ethnically the same as the Han people. They were basically foreigners who invaded and took over the country and imposed things like the Q. You know that in Chinese, you've got the shaved head and the long braid.

1:12:32That is not a Han Chinese. That is a complete Qing Manchurian import. Your hand is still doing the braid. Import. And then you also know that the Mongols took over centuries before that and founded their own dynasty. So China doesn't have that same historical legacy of going out and wanting to invade other countries and have an empire. In fact, it has more of a historical experience of other countries wanting to try to take it over. The British tried, obviously, and to some extent failed in the 1800s. But they did manage to take Hong Kong, for instance. So it's just a different frameworking, a different historical legacy.

1:13:12but I think in the last two decades the Chinese understand and I think this has really been borne out by the Iran crisis yeah is that you need to have influence a little bit everywhere yeah like with the Gulfies with the Africans with the Russians you know have negotiations and deals everywhere so that if like there's a straight of home use crisis and 50 percent of hydrocarbons gets taken off the table for a period of time, then you can find resources to replenish your stockpiles and import from other places around the world. So that's the way that I look at it is it's less of an empire and it's more of a network of influence on trade, on geopolitics, on supply chains.

1:13:56So do you think China is going to look to the robots? Is that a conversation that they're having? Oh yeah, for sure. Is that robots are going to help with the demographic challenge and robots are going to be the next major export. Like EVs and solar panels and batteries were a decade ago. But help me understand what solutions or what problems the robots are actually going to be fixing. Because I understand, okay, there's the decline in terms of people's age and their ability to do things. So I guess robots taking care of people, is that one aspect of it? Taking care of elderly people. Okay, so robots taking care of elderly people.

1:14:35Yeah. And then you have more task specific, you know, robotic installations and already happening in factories. So dark factories that are completely devoid of humans, basically, and it's just machines, robotic machines. Then you have certain hospitals and pharmaceutical companies that use, again, robotic arms to pick, you know, pick out somebody's orders or prescriptions without a human as well. That's happening. And then some really interesting stuff that is more in the brain chip interface that's happening, both invasively and non-invasively. So on the non-invasively front, they have this device that sits on the skin that basically is able to control the brain so that you can control an arm, a robotic arm, an external arm.

1:15:28So if you have an amputee, there's a company called BrainCo that's doing it. if you're an amputee, then your brain is able to, it's able to pick up an electric signals from your brain, this chip device that sits on the skin. And infer intention. And then move your fingers and infer intention. And there's another one that's more invasive, which is the chip interbed into the brain that is helping people who have spine injuries can't walk to walk again. That's more in the kind of blended environment, not purely robotics. but I suspect that we're going to see not just the humanoid robots that Elon wants to see, but different task-specific robotic installations, the stuff that I mentioned, the arms that are picking up orders.

1:16:14Right, right, right. Just doing one specific task and just moving forward with that. Yeah. So for instance, I was just in Beijing. I don't know if you guys have it here, Heidi Lau, which is the hot pot. It's the Chinese hot pot chain. No, I don't know Heidi Lau. Okay. I highly recommend it if you guys go. Really, really great hot pot chain, the most successful hot pot chain in the world. And run by a Chinese woman as well. So it's, you know, it's a great story. Is she single? Sorry, sorry. Asking for a friend. She might be too old for you. I can eat. Eugene, this is not your Ukraine. Relax, Eugene.

1:16:52Ukraine is Ukraine. is they have these robots that are picking up on people's orders. So whatever, they know exactly what people's orders are and then they will put it on a tray and deliver it. And then I was just touring Alibaba last year and they have this sort of logistics wing of their company because they started off as e-commerce. Right. Where the robot is already able to sense the optimal, and I wish I had the skill, the optimal way to arrange packing so that you use the least amount of paper, you use the least amount of product. So like the robot is already figured out the machine and then the robot have figured out how do I like kind of like.

1:17:31So you can optimize your wastage, minimize wastage essentially. Exactly. Because they can like 3D optimize space and figure out, okay, so this is how I put it all. And this is the smallest box that I can use for this order. So you see everything you're saying there is what's terrifying most people around the world because they go, I work in a factory. I should be doing that. And I work in a pharmacy where I get people's medication. And I work in a logistics company. And I and I and I. And in America, what they're being told is, well, look, we'll figure it out in the future. And the truth is, the robots are taking your jobs and AI is taking your job and there's nothing you can do about it.

1:18:11But hey, man, we'll figure it out. Let's do it and we'll figure it out. the other day i i read an article where they said the chinese government put forward a law saying that companies cannot fire people only to replace them with ai which again now you want to talk about like the the the perspectives that people have or um perceptions that they have of other i saw many americans british people were going like oh my god yeah why is the chinese government doing this for its people but our governments you can do this you can just make a law and the Chinese government was just like, yeah, you cannot replace people.

1:18:46You cannot fire them just because of AI. Yeah, because they know that they're going to be dead in 30 years anyway. Yeah, but what I'm saying is though, like... They're not trying to depress them while they're going up a 25-minute escalator to the great beyond. It would be crazy if the escalator just went to heaven. And then you get there and you're like, ah. It's like, ah. There are robots everywhere. Escalator is like, I am the robot. I took you there. Yeah, but you see, that again to me seems like the Chinese government again pragmatically looking at a situation saying, on the one hand, we have to modernize.

1:19:26But on the other hand, if the people are completely left behind, then this thing falls apart. Is that like how they think about everything? Is that even how they think about this situation? Exactly. And there were two court rulings, which you're also referencing in the last year or so, one in Beijing and one in Hangzhou, in which the court ruled on both accounts it was illegal to fire someone on the basis of AI. You're right. And China in the last couple of years has been at the forefront of AI regulation in terms of data protection, but also in terms of deepfake technologies where I don't think we're getting enough attention.

1:19:59like you can't just copy somebody else's voice or or use somebody else's image and impersonate them uh and monetize off of that there's regulations against that and i don't know if that's the case in the u.s as of yet but there's a few states that have imposed a few laws but they they obviously they apply to pornography and then other but they but it's not like a federal thing yet yeah so the the Chinese government look at technology with a kind of, I would say, more balanced approach, but also they have the power to do that in the way that, as I understand it, in America they don't because there's a lot of vested interests.

1:20:39Pacts get funded. There's lobbying. Is that not a thing in China? No, if you lobby the government, if you're lobbying an official, that official will probably be ousted for anti-corruption. Oh, yeah. Because in most of the world, what we call, they call lobbying in America. We call it bribery. Here it's legal. You can lobby people with gifts and trips and everything. And that's just normal. And it's so funny because when I was growing up, I always used to think Africa was the most corrupt continent because that's what we were told. They'd be like, Africa, so much corruption, so much corruption.

1:21:14And then when I moved to America, I was like, ah, yes, you are right. There is way more corruption in Africa because we didn't think of calling it lobbying. you are completely correct you got us on that one you got us you know how you get rid of crime you just stop saying it's a crime that's the number one way to get rid of crime you just say it's not a crime and then now your crime has gone down I'm more interested in the future use of robots to fill in the gaps we've spoken about industry we've spoken about how they can be useful in healthcare when one shoulder of Eugene goes up it means sex is on his mind that's a tip I'll teach you about my friend As soon as one shoulder goes up like this You're like Oh yeah Eugene is stepping into the romantic sphere Oh yeah Here's Eugene Sorry my friend Maybe I was wrong Please ask your question Ask your question Eugene

1:22:11Let me not Let me not Let me not tarnish you You know what Trevor's like He's like that friend at the bar You're talking to a girl And he's like Oh your wife Tried to call you he's the opposite of a wingman the opposite he's a tumor man

1:22:33you're gonna tell us about relationship robots is that a big it's not big Japan is more big right Yeah, Japan is also AI boyfriends. Companions, yeah, the AI companions. Companions is a big thing. It's happening in China. So this is another thing that's stopping women from both sides, but women in particular, because now they have these amazing AI, thoughtful AI boyfriends. Damn it. We're being replaced. Yeah, replaced by AI boyfriends that will check in with you and know exactly what to say. Damn. And make you feel good about yourself. That's already happening in China. Yeah. You know what? I will say this.

1:23:17We are quick to say that it's a bad thing. But maybe this is the future that we should be living in. A world where everyone has their AI perfect partner. Men don't want an AI perfect partner. You speak for yourself. And then all we do is we'll just create like sperm banks and like embryo banks. And then people can just have kids. But your AI perfect partner is just there with you. Men don't want an AI perfect partner. Why don't men want an AI perfect partner? You think we want to talk some more? You think that's what we want to be doing? Yeah, but your AI partner won't make you talk more. Because it's a perfect partner.

1:23:50It'll do whatever you want it to do. Then it's not a partner. No, it will be the partner you want it to be. Picture your perfect partner. That's how the AI will be. Yeah, but men want companionship, not partnership. It will also be... Partnership means we have an equal say in what we're doing, in what we're thinking, in what we're not doing. It can be that as well. Companionship means there's something or someone next to you. So I'm glad you said a something, because Alice and I will like to introduce you to a little robot that we call Companion Bot. We'll be shipping it to your house, Eugene.

1:24:23And it's got a great host of features. It's got a soft outer shell. One. Right. It's got all the knowledge of you that you need. Two. And most importantly, it knows how to read your shoulder cues.

1:24:39Let me ask you a question. Because, you know, I realize this when talking to an expert like yourself. Sometimes we don't know what questions we should be asking because we don't have the expertise to know what the questions are. What are the questions you think people should be asking about China that they're not asking? I love that question. I think that people should do that more in general. I would say, especially in the AI realm, talent flows really matter. and I don't think people, because they're in such a haste to focus, this is my other pet peeve on compute. Everyone's saying, oh, US compute is the biggest in the world.

1:25:18We have an advantage in the frontier models. But at the end of the day, what really matters is having top tier AI talent. And the fact that the plurality, and actually in some respects, the majority of top tier AI talent is Chinese nationals in the US is astounding. So 39 % of top-tier AI talent in Silicon Valley is Chinese nationals. They're not even American-born Chinese. There's Chinese nationals. And 38 % are American-born engineers. And then there's the rest of the world. So if you think about that alone, and then you couple that with the fact that China has 40 % of graduates every year in STEM, as opposed to in the US, it's 20 % of graduates every year is in STEM.

1:26:035 million of STEM graduates graduate almost every year in China. and enter the workforce. I don't think people understand enough how important that just scale, but also the talent of these top tier researchers for AI development, for technological development. I think that's really understated and does not really captured in economic models, but super important when we think about innovation in the next frontier. And what do you think some of the questions are that we're not asking about like China's vision and its demographics and its sort of future plans as a whole beyond the space of AI and technology?

1:26:40So beyond AI and technology, I think the big question is what is going to happen to, and again, it's tied to youths, is like what is going to happen to the Gen Z in China? Because the boomers and the millennials kind of really got to write the coattails of China's economic rise. And in the next couple of years, I believe there'll be upwards to 5 trillion US dollars of intergenerational wealth transfer from the boomers to Gen Z in China. So that's a lot of change that is going to be transferred over. And the question is, how are they going to invest it? What are they going to do with the money?

1:27:17Are they going to decide to work as hard as their parents? Yeah, what does it affect their work ethic? Yeah. Are they going to be motivated to get married or not? How are they going to think about their economic development in a slowing China? I think that is the big question. We haven't figured it out yet because both narratives of the youth are checked out and mailing it in, but also the youth are really hardworking and excited about AI. Both realities coexist. And then the big question is, which pathway do we take? Will Chinese youth and the industry get super excited about AI and will China be not just a near peer competitor with the US, but a leader?

1:27:58Because maybe it's not just LLMs that matter. And maybe there are other innovations that young Chinese people can design. Because they've already shown, Chinese companies have already shown that they're not just good at iteration, but also good at innovation and making very viral stuff. Like who would have thought a couple of years ago that the most viral videos and content AI generated would come out of China from TikTok? No one would have thought that. And that gave birth to a whole rise of content creators and influencers. Damn, it really is going to be exciting. Very exciting. It's like, yeah, I mean, to see the China that we grew up with, the China that we're living with now.

1:28:38The China that we've been told about. Yeah, the China we've been told about and the China that is. If we go to China, where should we go first? I'm super biased because I'm from Shanghai. Okay. So you have to go there. It's like the Paris of China. Oh, Shanghai is like the Paris of China. It's really. People are irritated that you're there when you're not. Well, they're kind of arrogant. They think they're the best people in China. Okay, I like that. Yeah, they look down on everyone else. Yeah, that's a pair of people are just like, what are you doing in your car? They dress better. They look down on everyone else in China.

1:29:06Okay. And they just think that they're culturally superior. Okay, cool. But I think you get some of the best restaurants. It's super cosmopolitan for a mainland city in China. And there are some areas historically where there's beautiful Art Deco, Spanish Revival buildings. Because remember, in the Republican era, so the early 1900s in China, there were a lot of Westerners who were living there. They had different concession areas or zones. So there's a French concession zone. Oh, so they could like build their own architecture and they did their own thing. It's the opposite of Chinatown, ironically.

1:29:35Yeah, French town. French town. French town, American town, British town. That's wild. That one would go there. And where they had their own laws. They had their own laws. So the Chinese government couldn't interfere with them. Damn. In the early 1900s. In Hanoi, it's more French influence, right? In Vietnam, yeah. Yeah, that was the French. So it's all these like places in the world where. Huh, okay. Own laws. Yeah, with extraterritorial laws in the 1900s, which is crazy, yeah. And then the other place I would definitely go, Do you like spicy food? Do I like spicy food? Finish with your list.

1:30:06I've got my list for Alice. Do I like spicy food? Does he like spicy food? Cosmopolitan snobs, yes. He doesn't like spicy food. No, he does. He does? Does he? I can't tell. You think you got those pink ears by mistake? It's chilly. Let me tell you something. If you can find me. Yes. Eugene will always tell me not to call it this, but pig feet. I just call them pig feet. Pig trotters. And Eugene is going to say pork trotters. I call them Pig feet Pig feet Yeah Like Is it Am I pronouncing it correct Is it Huananese Huananese cuisine Yeah Huananese Yeah yeah It's very spicy Very spicy The pepper that like Makes your mouth feel like It's flipped upside down Yeah that's a good way Of describing mala That's That's like The Sichuan peppercorns Yeah the Sichuanese peppercorn Where it like flips everything And then you Hot is cold And cold is hot And sweet is sour And like Have you ever had it?

1:30:57Your mouth Your dating history As you can see, I love spicy You know in Chinese, to describe a sexy woman, she's spicy Oh, look at that And women in Sichuan are particularly spicy Oh, okay But I used to go to panda If you're not into women, you've got pandas there Eugene, I guess your list is now being dealt with As you see, my list with women was done Alice moved on to You see what you've done now Alice moved on to the panda bears So sorry Eugene You can go with your list I'm more of a koala guy myself Furry is furry Oh man Okay wait wait No no But my cities Okay Shanghai And then where else should I go Chongqing Which is in Sichuan Okay There I'm going to get All my spicy food And then if you go Very close to that Is Chengdu which is also in the same province.

1:31:57That's where the pandas are. Okay. I do love pandas. I can't front. Amazing. And then I think that... All pandas in the world are owned by China. Did you know that? All of them. All of them. There's no panda in the world that is not owned by China. No way. They don't allow anyone to own a panda bear. You can have it and look after it, sort of lease it from them. But the Chinese government goes, this thing represents us and it is our animal. We're not going to let you... You're not allowed to breed it anyway. You're not allowed... Not that you sort of can because you know they're notorious for not wanting to smash.

1:32:27but panda bears are all owned by the Chinese government just a fun fact, I love panda bears that's crazy xenophobia I love panda bears I really, really love panda bears I'll show you my WhatsApp is it a panda bear? that's my, see my WhatsApp profile picture that's cute I love panda bears and then one other city? well, this might be underrated because most people go to Xi 'an, Beijing but I love Yunnan which is the one I mentioned Yes Where they wear linen pants Where they wear linen pants And they're super hippie They have amazing cafes It's like the hippie cafe Central part of China Where people People love just sitting out And having coffee How long does it take you To get around when you're in China Like if you're in Shanghai How quick is it to go somewhere else Are we taking the train Get at the high speed So Shanghai to Beijing High speed is around Four and a half hours Man that's amazing And that's with a high speed It's a high speed train Yeah but what is that distance though That's huge How far was it before the high speed Days my brother No wonder Genghis Khan gave up No it's days my man But what is the distance It's Yeah It's huge I think I want to butcher it But it's like It's definitely bigger than New York to Boston Yeah it's way way further It's way more I think it's more like I need to look it up I'm not really sure Okay That's me That's your list Yeah any questions you have Alice if you could For an intrepid traveller such as myself And a humanitarian at most.

1:33:58Where I could assist the Chinese population the most, given my, you know, acquired skills over time. Where would you? What are the acquired skills? Eugene wants to know where he can earn$50 ,000. That's what Eugene wants to know. Oh, you could be, like there are a lot of African influences in China. are doing really, really well. No, no, no. Eugene specifically, remember you said someone pays$50 ,000 for a specific act. Go and work for C-Trip. He'll pay you$50 ,000 per baby. My resignation has now officially been tendered. See you. Alice, this was amazing. Thank you very much. Thank you. I think one of the biggest things you've left us with and I hope everyone will walk away with this is take everything you get not with a grain of salt but with the understanding that it is limited by the fact that it's not made from the place or by the place it's not the language of the country it is not the news of the country it's not the people of the country and you've never been there i even say this as a south african the amount of times i've had to like correct people's perceptions on south africa because they have an idea from the media which most people will have So you know I'm not saying it's a A sinister thing That people form Is a good reminder But man We've got to go to China And just see this for ourselves Escalators Spicy food And robots And the fact that you'll be walking the talk By being there Yeah no for sure And living there now For sure Oh man all the best You guys really should go Do a comedy show It's getting popular again in China You spoke to the wrong guys We're there We're there like a panda bear Now underwear I thought you forgot that rhyme My friend, there's nothing panda bear related I've ever forgotten, Eugene Ever But the one with us is me Alice, this was so much fun, thank you It was so fun to be here, thanks guys No, this was great, man, thank you very much What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions In partnership with SiriusXM The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackl Rebecca Chain is our producer Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu.

1:36:18Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?

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