Meet Wil Sylvince - My Favorite People

31:43Was it easy to get out? No, because Papa Doc would not let people leave. Like, you could go visit, but you had to come back. you know like like in North Korea they're like oh see we see what other countries did they let them leave so now what North Korea don't let their people leave right yeah yeah so so I think places like North Korea learned from places like Haiti oh no just don't let them leave just don't let them go and then yeah so how wait how did they escape so the thing is if you leave and then your visa expired and the country sent you back then Haiti was like oh you oh did you try to leave this visa expired two years ago what were you Did you forget?

32:24And they're like, oh, you got to go to boot camp. The boot camp was jailed. Oh, man, I'm just picturing them at the board of office, just being like, oh, did you forget?

32:41But how did your parents get out, Rick? What did they do? So my dad and my mom got together because my dad was in the Haitian military. Yeah. And the reason why my dad, how they met, my mother's father, my grandfather, was always talking shit about François Duvalier. Oh, wow. Before he got elected. Right? Because he saw it before. Because François Duvalier was in politics. And my grandfather kind of said, like, look, once you have a taste of that, it's like once you have cocaine, you're always going to be coked up. Right? I never did cocaine. I'm just saying. Okay. For someone that told me. For those of us, Francois Duvalier is Papa Doc.

33:26Yes. You know what I'm saying? Just so. Yeah, yeah. Francois Duvalier, a.k.a. Papa Doc. So your grandfather was always talking smack about. He was always talking smack about. Saying, yo, don't, this guy is, you know, and people was against my grandfather saying, like, no, that's not true. So he was, like, publicly saying this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this was before he was elected. Before Papa Doc and Francois was elected. And so he was like, don't vote for him. You know, he didn't, And Friends of the Valley didn't have 100 % of the votes, but there were some people that was against them that said, no, vote for this person instead.

33:54And then Friends of the Valley was like, you know, no, I'm going to do all these things. And my grandfather did see through that, through the BS that he was spitting. And so when Papa Doc got elected, he just remembered all the people that was talking smack. Oh, damn. And he went and had them arrested. So my grandfather was one of those people that got arrested. and when my mother and my grandmother, the wife of my grandfather, went to prison to go out and try and see him, they wouldn't let them see him. For many months, weeks, they tried to see him and so they got the word that they killed my grandfather.

34:35That was one of the early killings where he didn't just come out and start killing people, he was just quietly killing people and so they started talking smack where they were living. I'm like, yo, they killed so-and-so. Can you believe that? They killed so-and-so. And so then the war got back to Papa. Papa's like, you know what? Go kill the whole village. I don't care about that. And they actually killed your grandfather? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They killed my grandfather. Oh, damn, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a long time ago. No, no, but still, I genuinely, I didn't know that. I don't know why I assumed he just, like, lived his life and then, wow.

35:08And so then he got. So this was a real thing for the family then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that was the, and so they got, he sent a group of soldiers to that village to go and kill him. Yeah. And my dad was one of the soldiers. And then when they got to that village, they just started killing anybody. But when my dad got to the house, my dad was like, no, you guys got to, my dad was not about that life. You know, another thing is like, when you vote for someone and you realize they're bad, you're like, oh, man, I messed up. You know, and then he got me too, you know. Yeah. And so it's not like he was a nice person and he became a dictator.

35:44And his father was like, yeah, we should dictate. You should be a dictator. No, they was like, oh, yeah, it was too late, you know. And so my dad allowed that family to escape. And then they met at a market in Haiti. And they recognized each other immediately. And, you know, they fell in love. But my mom was like, we can't really get together because, you know, it's a conflict of interest. You work for the man. Because also, if you was in the military, you were not allowed to leave the military. Because that's another thing that happened when he became president and became a dictator. So many people in the military wanted to, I'm not going to work for this guy.

36:27But then he wrote a law saying that, well, you can't leave the military. Otherwise, you'll get arrested and executed. I think most militaries in the world, you're not allowed to leave when you want to. Oh, yeah. AWOL? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. So it was like, so my dad was stuck. But then also, he wanted to go with my mother. And it was like a conflict of interest. Like, you know, you guys killed my dad. And then so, and at the time, my dad had five houses in Haiti. He was playing opening a mechanic shop where he's going to fix cars and stuff. He was a mechanical engineer, you know. Okay.

37:05In fact, my dad was, so while he was in the military, he would sabotage some of the trucks. So when they sent them out to a village to go and kill people, the trucks would break down. No. Not close enough to the village, to the base, where they could go get new trucks, but not close enough to the village where they could walk. So they had to like, oh, it's close to the walk back to the base. By the time they got back, they were tired. I'm like, we'll try tomorrow. And he would sabotage also some of the weapons. The guns would jam up. You know After a while It started looking back Who worked on this truck last?

37:42So he had to like He had to chill on Sabotaging the weapons And trucks Yeah So how long was he Was he in the military? How long was your dad Still in Haiti? So once he met my mother They started dating They started you know This is like Haitian Romeo and Juliet for real Yeah And they And then my dad decided to like So my dad told my mother, said, hey, you know, really, we have no future together. Right. Because you're working with this guy. What future do you see? He killed my dad. So my dad said, well, I'm just going to leave. And my mother, you can't leave. The rest of you leave. My dad said, no, I'm going to leave the country.

38:23My mother, like, leave the country? But you got your houses, your business, you know, and even if you leave successfully, your family's here. because another thing they'll come after your family if you leave so you know they'll teach you a lesson through your family oh yeah you can leave but your family that's what North Korea does apparently yeah yeah yeah so my dad got everybody out no ways his family my mother's family the cousins everybody out no ways yeah and he was like one of the last ones to leave you know because obviously you know and um this is like a this is like a Haitian action movie meets like club story I thought it was Roman and Gilead.

39:02I thought it was the Haitian moment. No, no, no, but you didn't tell me he was escaping. Now he's a Haitian Terminator? I be back. Or better, I be back, okay? What were your, what did your dad say that, because they came, did everyone come to the United States? Yes, yes. What did he say, he was, what did he tell the United States government? A refugee or was it? So at the time, the U.S. was actually giving visas. They was accepting people. It was not like how it is now. They were letting people in if you had a skill. Yeah. You know, my mother, she went to school to be a seamstress, you know, and she also went to culinary school.

39:42So she had those two skills, so it was easy for her to get a visa. You know, and my dad was a mechanical engineer, so it was easy for him to come in. And so you just had to have a skill. I can't remember what my cousins or what their story was, but once you had a skill, it was easy. You know, early 60s, they was accepting people like crazy here. Yes. You know? Damn. Yeah. So your parents come over to the U.S., settle in Brooklyn, and then - Before that, my dad interviewed people. Because the main places to go when you leave Haiti was Dominican Republic, Miami, Montreal, Boston, and New York. Those were the main places.

40:23You know, there was other places like Chicago, but those were the main places Haitians was fleeing to. Okay. You know, Dominican Republic was kind of like out of the question. Wait, you didn't mention New York in those, right? New York, yeah, yeah. Oh, you did, sorry. Dominican Republic. Okay, Dominican Republic. Montreal. Montreal, Miami. New York, Miami. Boston, okay, got it, got it. Yeah, right. Okay, cool. So, Dominican Republic was out the question for my dad because it's like, Dominicans was anti-Haitian. Okay, got it. You know, they was killing Haitians also. you know, in 1936, there was the, so there was a word that if you could say, they would come up to dark-skinned people in Dominican Republic and say, say, something where you can tongue roll.

41:02Haitians can't roll the tongue. They say, why you do this? I shouldn't be laughing. Okay, you are my, I'm going to run down the block. I'm not going to, I'm not going to run down, I'm going to run down the block. Okay? I'll be back. So you can't say that, that word. I'm not laughing at, please don't get me wrong. I'm going to laugh all you want No, it's the way you did it, please Because the situation you just laid out was terrible Very terrible But the way you did it The way you did it You know when someone is recounting a very tragic story Yeah, I mean But the way he said it made it seem very funny It is not funny at all I want you to know that the way I reacted Has nothing to do with the content of what you said As your friend, I hope you know that Alright, sorry So Dominican Republic was out of the question because they were anti-Haitian.

41:48Yeah. Okay. Miami? He interviewed someone from Boston and the person in Boston... This is your dad like asking other people? Asking people, yeah. Oh, could you say interview like... Interview. Well, you try to figure out where... Because also, you know, back in those days, people would just leave. Yeah. And just figure things out. You know, for Haitians, it was, you know, you want to leave, but let me figure it out. I don't want... My dad was like pretty like aware and smart about things. Let me just ask a few people, see which way. His main thing was education and jobs. Okay. Where can he go?

42:29Okay, so where are the opportunities? Opportunities, yeah. So education, opportunities for the kids, and then opportunities for the family. Yeah. All right, got it. And so Montreal was not good because he talked to someone where they were pretty mean to him. I can't remember the details of it. I'm getting the story from my aunt. Miami were just no real opportunities. Yeah, that makes sense back then. The weather was nice like Haiti, but it was, you know. Boston was pretty racist. He met a lady he talked to. Her and her sister and the sister's husband moved to Boston. You don't have to explain.

43:09Sorry, continue. Oh, there were doctors. You just said Boston in the 60s. A Haitian. Is Boston in the 60s welcoming to Haitians?

43:26So all three were doctors. When they went to Boston, they got reduced to nurses. So you had to take a test. You just can't be, just because you're a doctor in your country, you got to take a test. And so the test was expensive. But then she found out, the lady that my dad was talking to, how racist they were. with the way they was treating. So one time she said there was two patients that got hit by a car, right, on the corner. It was a black lady and a white lady. The black lady was in way more pain. The white lady had scrapes and stuff. And the white lady asked me, stay, can I stay in the hospital?

44:03I'm still not feeling well. While the black lady was really in pain, they discharged her early. The doctor was like, oh, you can't stay here. You got to leave. And she left. She went home. She was feeling bad again. She came back. Also, they didn't have ambulances back then. So the police would pick you up in a paddy wagon or in a police car. And the police took their time to take her back to the hospital, and she died on the way there. Oh, man. So she realized, oh, wow, they discriminated. Also, there was a lady who was a black lady. She was about to get burnt, and they made her fill out all these forms and stuff, and they made a walk to the room instead of putting her in a wheelchair and wheelchairs to the room.

44:42And when she got to the room, the doctor wouldn't give her pain medication saying these people are exaggerating. And she didn't realize she was black also and saying these people. But also Haitians, when they came to America, racism was not a thing because everybody was just human beings. Right, right. It's when they got to here, they realized, oh. And also another thing about Haitians, they thought like, oh, they talking about African-Americans. Well, I'm Haitian. That's so funny, man. So that's another thing she's thinking, oh, they must be talking that African-Americans don't feel pain when they're pregnant.

45:13That is so crazy. And then she realized after so many instances, and then when it happened to her, of course, she told the head nurse, I'm going to become a doctor. I'm going to take the test. The head nurse loved her. White lady loved her. Then when she realized that she's going to be a doctor, the nurse was like, well, what do you want to do that for? You're a great nurse. Why would you leave to be a doctor? there's no joy in that. You're doing so well here and I'm taking care of you. And then she said, well, so when she convinced the head nurse that, hey, I want to take the test, the nurse said, well, listen, you'll always be a nigger.

45:49Don't think you'll ever be above me. She didn't know what the word, the N word meant. You know, like, oh, I am, you know. I mean, that would get you to cross it off the list. Boston? No, thank you. So, so. You know, you know, as you're saying, these things there's the the the two thoughts that come to my mind one is how similar the stories of racism are around the world like i don't know what it was like like for your dad and stuff i don't know when like when he came to south africa but i think of my mom when my mom was um trying to be qualified she was she was doing like a typing course and she was doing just courses in and around like secretarial skills but then also things that required like managerial expertise i don't know what like what they were she was actually studying because i don't think it was like a fixed course you know and my mom went in and no joke she was being qualified to do certain things that were only for managers and the person who was her boss at the company or at this training institute said to her what is the point of studying what you're studying because at the end of the day you'll always be and then they use the word in south africa kafir he was like you're going to So what's the point?

47:01Oh, wow. But it's crazy that you're saying this. She's also a woman, remember? Yeah, she's a woman. I'm saying so double. Yeah, but that's what I mean. It's crazy that you're telling me about a story in Boston. Yeah. And then I'm going like, oh, yeah, my mom told me this story from South Africa. And then the compounded thing of it all is the pain and the... The time, you know who gets this kind of story is when you listen to like white... aspiring white rappers, they sort of tell the story as well. Which rapper? Do you know what I mean? Do you hear what this guy... Just name the rapper. There's only one who...

47:41Do you hear what this guy just said? Do you hear what this guy just said? They do have the same story.

47:53It's the same. Yes, I mean, in many ways, white rappers are the black women oh you said white rappers of rap oh I'm saying white rappers you don't belong here you're never gonna be nothing yes some of them rap well but we're like but you're white oh man oh wait wait wait can we pause my story real quick so wait that were people from Africa migrating to South Africa even though they knew how they were treating the blacks It's a complicated story But they were Because we didn't know how they were treating the blacks in America We didn't know that So Haitians would go to America But you guys knew how they were treating South Africans No but remember they had the number one of Because I didn't want You don't want to make it like a dictator off But Papa Doc versus Idi Amin It sounds like you're making a dictator off But he's not wrong Papa Doc versus Idi Amin Who's the real G here No one knows Papa Doc.

48:57I had to tell people, Francois Dubaye, Idi Amin, people know him. So if you're escaping Idi Amin, apartheid is... Racism is almost charming by comparison. In a way. It's play land. Yeah. You're just going to say bad things to me. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Does this interaction end with me still alive? Ah, ah, ah, ah. Wow. What a quaint form of hatred this is Ah okay Okay that makes sense My dad should have gone to South Africa then Yeah I mean could have And so once she realized How bad they was treating Like not just Haitian Haitian as well She moved back to Haiti She moved back to Haiti?

49:44My dad actually talked to her in Haiti Yo what? Because her thought was Well as long as I stay out of power The thing about Haiti As long as you stay out of politics, Papa Doc won't message you. Wow. People was going to the movies. Yo, do you know what an indictment this is of racism in Boston, that this person was like, I'm going back to Haiti. No offense to Haiti, but yo, Will, what? A number of people came back. You're saying Haiti's going through the worst period ever where thousands of people are being killed. And this person was like, goodbye, Boston. I am going back to Haiti. Yeah. She went back to Haiti, and she was actually selling things at a market.

50:17Wow. And that her sister was sending her to Haiti to sell, like products they didn't have in Haiti. So she just went back. She said, you know what? I'll just stay out of politics. I won't even talk about politics. Sorry, who is this again? Sorry, just follow up. Just a lady my dad interviewed about Boston. Should he go to Boston or not? Great. Damn. Yeah, so he actually talked to her. And Toto Makut, you know Toto Makut? No. What is that? So when Papa Doc became president, most of the presidents, they got ousted by a coup. Yeah, yeah. So he got smart. He's like, you know what? I'm going to get my own secret service.

50:54Okay. And they call them Totomacuts. And the thing about Totomacuts, they would blend with the people in the street. So you know who was the Totomacut. So they'd be listening, seeing if you're talking about Papa Doc or talking about, you know, and they'll shoot you right there in the street. So there was a time when my dad was talking to this lady in Boston at the market. And then he heard, they thought they saw someone, the Totomacut, And then the guy said, hey, don't move. Stay right there. And so he's talking to his lady like, oh, shit. Oh, shit. And then he went past my dad to someone else and then got him on the floor and said, hey, what do you think you're doing?

51:34What do you think you're doing? And then it wasn't my dad. So they learned not to talk in the streets anymore like that. This is a crazy time. I mean, I'm picturing your dad. I'm picturing your mom planning to leave. Totomacuz. Totomacuz. which again, it's really wild how every single authoritarian regime around the world has the same playbook. Yes. People in the community who listen to you, spies, spying, like family spying on family. Same in Russia, same, you know what I mean? Any place that there's been like an authoritarian regime, the same rules apply. The government finds ways to get the people to spy on each other on behalf of the government so that you don't trust each other.

52:17And if you don't trust each other, then the only thing that has absolute power is the government. Same way with America, house Negroes and field Negroes. Say more. So if you're a slave owner in America, right? You got your wife, you, maybe two kids and a dog, but you have 80 slaves. How do you get protection from 80 slaves from storming your house? What you do is you divide them. You reward. Oh, yeah, divide and conquer. Yeah. You reward the ones that tell you, hey, they planning on coming to your house tonight or leaving the field. And so, oh, good, good, you get to sleep in the house. Oh, thank you, man, I got to sleep in the house.

53:00You know? And so the same thing. So that was their Toto Makuts, the house Negroes. Damn. Dave, can you say the Latin word for me, please? Which word? House Negroes is? Oh, no. I was just thinking. You was thinking it? No, no, the way I was thinking, I was thinking that I would have been a... Oh, yeah, what would you have been a house? Yeah, I would have probably been house. A house? No, you wouldn't. He says that. No, no, the thing, you know why? Why? It's just at that, and I'm being genuine now. Like I don't know If you could have Convinced me To forego Like Comfort I don't think this is true I don't think you know Yourself well enough I think pressure Makes diamonds You are too You know This guy Did you just remember The quote now This guy just remembers The quotes Like deep in the conversation I think Pressure makes diamonds You've been waiting To say that Now that it came back Into your No so He says that But here's why I disagree with you I don't know anybody Who is more charitable Than you are I don't know anybody Who's more helpful Than you are I don't know anybody Who is like friends With more homeless people Than you are And look I don't know everybody But what I No no no But what I'm saying is You say that about yourself But I'm having a comfort time Yeah I hear you But I don't think I think you are more Like revolutionary Than you Than you paid yourself Out to be Maybe it would be this And I genuinely, I'm not even saying that to gas you up.

54:34I just, I don't think you'd be that guy. Okay, okay. I think you would be there helping formulate escape plans with people. Okay, but okay, okay. Maybe, because we don't know, but I'll say this, is when I was offered it, I'll say that, you know, When you were offered to be a house, Nico? When was this? What are you talking about? How old are you? What is happening here? You know what I'm saying? Because when they come to me and they say, can you spy on the rest? Okay, got it, got it. Cool. When I'm offered it, some people would be like, hell no. Others would be like, yes, definitely. Yeah. Okay, give me this much.

55:10Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear his ending. Yeah, I want to hear his ending. Wait, wait, wait. Let me just say the third. Yes, I'll be a spy, but actually I'm spying on you to tell them information. Okay. The double agent. The double agent, yes. I'll say, okay, I'll do this. Can I think about it? so you see what I'm saying it was you think they were like hey listen listen here you got two weeks to think about this offer I'm giving you can I come back you got two weeks Negro no that's so I'm because remember I'm minding my own business then I get called I get called wait you think picking cotton is minding your own business no don't do this I've been picking cotton minding my business no no no don't do this Because this is a very delicate subject.

55:59No, no, no, no. I'm saying, no, don't do that. I'm saying, don't do that. I'm saying that my own personality, I don't think that I would directly be this revolutionary that you think. And maybe, maybe, you know, I would. But what I'm saying is that certainly when you make the offer, I wouldn't I would I would have to think about it and then maybe to gather myself gather myself then I'll come back and say no I can't do this I have to be I can't so now because I'm not making light of the issue because because whenever I read about people who do these kind of things who go against the system the Totemacuts oh no no the people who go against the system yes Harriet Tubman Nelson Mandela these kind of people American plays no no because you genuinely go oh You know like If you're like Wow would I do it Yes And then if Cause would I do it If I had the offer Of not You see what I'm saying Yeah yeah yeah If I If I didn't have an option Yes If I was offered An easy life In exchange In exchange for the Hardness of my people Would I take it or not That's what I mean I don't think it's worded That way at the moment I think it's like Hey go clean my Go clean my bed No no no no And then they clean the bed Oh you did a good job Missy Well you know what Or maybe a slave saw another slave, you ain't supposed to be leaving?

57:26I'm going to tell master. And he went and told master. I'm like, oh, thank you for telling me, Rufus. You know what? You get to sleep in the house. Maybe it was an offer. Maybe it was another slave did it because they're like, you're going to get us all in trouble. I think all of those things are probably true. I think all of those things are probably true at the same time. You think slave masters came and offered them? No, no, no, no. I think all of them are true at the same time. I don't think there's one... A basketball deal? I don't think there's one fixed example. Does that make sense? Right.

57:53So I don't think there's one I'm sure there's some That were implicit I'm sure there were some That were explicit I'm sure there were some Does that make sense? Right, right And I think that's how these There's no rhyme or reason To what slave owners did No, the reason I think Is pretty obvious You know You become very rich And very powerful And you don't pay The people around you Right Well the main thing But what I mean is How you get 80 people From Washington Yeah, but what I'm saying is What I'm saying is I think it's a combination of things. When you terrorize people, one of the things about terror that makes it particularly powerful is you need very few acute acts to have a long-lasting effect on a group.

58:36Do you get what I'm saying? For the fear. Terror is fear. That's another reason authoritarian regimes have very public floggings, very public beheadings, very public... All of you have got to see what we do to somebody who steps out of line. And you just need to cut off a few people's heads or hang a few people or stone a few people for everyone to now be like, ah, man, we got to get in line. You get what I'm saying? When my parents used to whoop one of my brothers who didn't do their homework and be like, oh, I better do my homework. I mean, that's one way to think of it. Yes, that is. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

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1:01:53so wait wait but let's go back because i i want to get to like how we get to this will sylvins so your dad gets everyone out of haiti he's chosen he's chosen new york yeah because the job opportunities and he feel like is they very fair to everybody okay cool so your dad comes out your mom comes out now you guys are in brooklyn which where are you in the brothers how many brothers four brothers is i'm i'm third you're third yep okay and so were they were you all born in the u.s no two born in haiti damn so your mom had to come with kids as well wow how different are you from the like haitian brothers i'm not saying you're not haitian i'm just saying like from the like from the born in haiti haiti brothers i don't know i i felt like i i always thought out the box does that make sense kind of like because i was very close to my grandmother right because my dad used to always tell us like everybody's equal right there's no such thing as gender roles you're gonna you learn how to cook clean wash you know also you learn how to fix electrical appliances you learn how if a socket is broken you learn how what to do you know um um also my dad my dad used to do this thing where so you know you know the when the gas come into the house.

1:03:12Yeah. Right? And there's a meter that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So my dad figured out how to beat the company. He would just unscrew the thing and turn it backwards. And so now the meters would run the other way. But he made sure they didn't go all the way down. I'm like, what? You guys didn't use any gas? You guys used anti-gas? Yeah. You guys used negative gas? Right. So he knew just the amount and the gas. Our gas bill was pretty low. and he knew how to also with the electric and the cheap and he used so these different fuses he'll get the ones with certain amount of resistance and you know no wonder the white people didn't want the black people doing these cars look at what they're doing with their engineering knowledge

1:04:03well look what they're doing to us now oh man there's all the people in Boston watching this podcast And they're just like, what'd I tell you about them Haitians? Now you see why we didn't want them here. But wait, look what they're doing now. The AI company was building these massive places, and they're charging the people for the electricity. You know about that, right? So your dad was getting revenge before the— He was getting future revenge on behalf of humanity. And so my dad was like, everybody got along everything. So I knew how to sew, I knew how to cook, I knew how to fix electrical stuff.

1:04:35And so my dad used to always say, you know, If you have a good woman in your life, whether she's a girlfriend or a relative or a friend, always pay. You know, always pay because the world treat women like shit. And they don't realize women are really the backbone of society. And so I was so close to my grandma because of this. You know, my grandma was also nice. So, you know, I was probably going to be close to it anyway. But my dad saying that and putting that into us about treat women, you know, treat women with respect and all that. As a kid, I respect. What does that mean? You know, like I'm not going to hit my grandmother.

1:05:21I'm not going to curse her out. You can't curse. You couldn't curse to, you know, you couldn't even curse to your friends when your parents was around. Yeah. You get your ass whooped, you know. So I just remembered that, you know. and I became close with my grandmother. So actually when my grandmother died, I was the only one at the funeral not crying because I was like, you guys didn't see this coming? She was old. Is that how your brain processed it? Yeah, I was like, yeah, guys, like, yeah, you guys, you know she was old, right? You know this is going to happen. How old was she when she passed away?

1:05:5265. All right. Well, yeah, I don't know how to put this to you, but that's not particularly old. For black people, that's like 95, 98. But that's really not that old. Yeah. Well, if you think that's bad, my mother died at 55. My dad died at 55. My grandfather got shot at 55. Well, allegedly. If Papa died, come back in power. Everyone at 55? Everybody died at 55. How did your mom and dad pass away? My dad had chest cancer, but he never smoked. So what happened was, you heard of Dristan to clear your nose? The spray? The spray. Yeah. So one day he had a cold, he took Dristan. But the thing with Dristan, when you take it, clear your nose.

1:06:51Yeah. You're actually breathing better than when you went out. Yeah, than before you got sick. Yeah. And the thing about Dristan After a while Your nose gets clogged up You gotta let it Clog up for a day And you get your breathing back But my dad kept taking Dristan Yeah they call it rebound Yeah so you know When they In the 80s They had the shirts With the pocket right here Yeah So he kept the Dristan In his pocket Oh man And he just kept taking it Oh man For many years That thing is Till even now Like all those nasal sprays If you're on it longer Than I think like 14 days Maybe even less You're in big trouble Well, talk about 10 years, maybe 7 to 10 years my dad was taking it.

1:07:32He just needed that to breathe at some point. Yeah, he just kept taking it every day. And then he developed a form of cancer in the chest. But the doctors never tell you, they just want to know if you got money. That's not funny? No, I mean, not in this moment. And then my dad, my mom died of, she had moved to Florida. She came back to New York and she got stung by a bee and she developed an allergic reaction. She had a stroke and yeah. Damn, I'm sorry, man. That's a crazy period to go through for you and your brothers. It's like, how far apart was it between your parents dying? Oh, like 10 years.

1:08:18Also, no, like 70 years. Also, when my mother died is when I realized the truth about hospitals. Because I used to always think hospitals and doctors and nurses, well, not nurses. Nurses are still amazing. But they were all about wanting to help and save people. So when my mother had a stroke and she was in a coma, she went in a coma. And she went without oxygen for like, I think like 8 to 13 minutes. You know, by the time they called the ambulance to the house. And they resuscitated her. But she was without. So they was not sure if she do come out of the coma, how much brain activity she'll have.

1:09:02So my brothers and I were at the hospital. And the doctor came out and said, hey, your mother's in a coma, but we're not sure how long she's going to be. We're not sure how much brain activity she has. But she cannot stay here. Oh, no, no. First he said, you guys have insurance? He said, no, we don't have insurance. He goes, she can't stay here. She got to leave. She can't stay here. And then he kept, this went on for like five minutes, about she can't stay here. Then we said, can we just find a place? So my brother-in-law went back to the house, went through my mother's paperwork, and we found she had insurance through a credit card.

1:09:36She had insurance. As long as she uses credit cards, she has, I think, a million dollars worth of insurance. Wow. So we went back to the hospital the next day. We said, yo, the doctor came. I said, did you find a place for your mother to stay? We said, yes. Also, we showed him the paperwork. Do you think this facility will take this insurance? He looked at the paper, and no lie, he goes, your mother can't leave. If she leaves here, there's a risk of her dying.

1:10:09Okay. Oh, man. Like, we knew what was happening, but at the same time, like, what if it's real? Right? because the first thing he said did you find a place for your mother yeah look at the paper she can't leave okay so she stayed at the hospital till like eight months and the doctor the money was running out your mother can't stay here no longer wow that's not funny man no I mean it's insane too soon so then we found a place for her to stay we moved her to this facility this home and then me and my brothers had a talk like man, yo, this happened to me. Dude, pull the plug. There's no brain activity.

1:10:52I don't want to come back. I can't say hello. I barely can blink. Dude, pull the plug. Let me leave. So once we all decided that, we just said, yo. So we unplugged. I think she passed away later that day or a day later. Damn. Yeah.

1:11:16no wonder you can't sleep this stuff you're telling us I mean that's not funny I thought it was funny it's very funny I'm still yeah I don't know yeah yeah I don't know I'm trying to put myself in your shoes in some of those moments and process it I can't imagine what a lot of that is like so after that experience with the hospital, I'm like, doctors are full of shit. Hospitals are full of shit. It's just all about money. It's all about business. But then I met some amazing nurses. Nurses really want to help. I'm not saying all doctors are like that, but that doctor, you know what I'm saying, he wasn't about that.

1:12:00Yeah, the thing that's tough from everything I've read, let's say specifically in American healthcare, it's funny because it depends on the country you live in. In South Africa, when my mom was shot and we were in the hospital, they said the similar thing to me. They said, does she have insurance? And I was like, I don't think she has insurance. And it was so crazy because my mom, she always had insurance. And then I want to say like six months before the incident, she was like, I don't need insurance. She's like, this makes no sense. I'm just paying for this thing and nothing happens. Then I said, that's what insurance is for.

1:12:43It's not, it's something, it's because something might happen, not because it does happen. Right. She's like, no, I don't need insurance. It's like my friend who gave up his fire extinguisher. He said, yo, I want to use this. You could, you want to hold on to it? We could, I'll have it for one month. You have it for one month. Like. So, so I'm in the hospital and they said the same thing. They said, yeah, it was the closest hospital to where it happened. And then they were like, oh, we've got to move her. And then the hospital they were going to move her to was going to be like 45 minutes to an hour away.

1:13:18Oh, damn. And I was lucky that I was like, I'll just, I'll pay. I was like, I've got a credit card. I'll just pay. And they were like, oh, it could cost a lot of money. I was like, yeah, it's my mom. I'll never forget that interaction with the doctor because I was just like, what? The way, you know what I mean? And the way he said it to me was very like, he's like, oh, it could cost a lot of money. It's like a leather jacket. You know how much a leather jacket costs? Yeah, I was like, yo, bro, it's my mom. Yeah. And he's like, okay. And he was still like, oh, I mean, all right. If your mother was white, would he have to say that?

1:13:52Yeah, I'll be honest with you. That's the one thing that I find has now united people across color lines. and that is that like the medical industry in many places in the world has become one that has allowed itself to become so controlled by money that it doesn't necessarily allow them to care about health first. And in America, it's interesting, right? So in America, how it works, not everywhere, but in a lot of America is there are companies that have bought out doctors' practices. So the doctors don't even sort of work for themselves anymore. Wow. And then there are also companies that own hospital groups.

1:14:39So the hospitals also are part of a company, right? Right. And then they need to make money. And then the doctors that are in as part of this thing, so they feed into the hospital. Their money is also going somewhere. So the doctor's working a lot, but they're not necessarily earning the money of working a lot, right? And then the hospital is in cahoots With certain providers for certain procedures Or certain medicines And it just becomes this weird world Where everyone seems like They're being held hostage by somebody else But they're also the hostage takers I don't know if I can explain this It's like a weird rabbit hole Where the hospitals themselves We're barely making a profit And the doctors will say We barely make any money And we work countless hours And then the people who are in the hospitals are like we don't have any money and we're treated like shit or we spend all our money.

1:15:31Who's making the money? And it's generally these big organizations that they've designed systems that put an undue pressure on the medical industry. And unfortunately, the stories are a lot like what you're saying. So there's got to be somebody up top, right? It's really like a company, right? There's a CEO. Yeah, but it's generally the big companies. Like there's a few I don't know them by name So I won't like say the wrong one And then you know Right Get into trouble or whatever I'm saying like No no but I know there's big So there's one like a Yeah Yeah No but there are actual big companies That own these groups And they're trying to consolidate more and more And that's what's leading To the systems being worse and worse And worse and worse But then there's also weird things In American medicine Like Like when it comes to prescription medications For instance You have these things called pharmacy benefit managers, I think it is.

1:16:27I think it's pharmacy, yeah. But basically what they do is they're like the middleman between you and your prescription. But they can also decide a price that your insurer pays, which also determines the price that you pay, which also determines the price of the medicine. And it determines the price of what the medicine maker is getting. It is as convoluted as I'm saying it right now. You know what I mean? It's not like - It's almost like if it's in demand. Like when you travel out, take it to a concert, right? you realize that they'll jack the price up oh yeah yeah it's very similar to that yeah it's very similar to that this is one of the reasons why I didn't get a BBL because what were the other reasons I'd like to know what the other reasons were beyond cost okay this is the main reason and then also because the cost of one this whole thing and then the cost of changing all of my pants wait BBL is big but lactose what's BBL again I think it's a Brazilian butt lift.

1:17:24Oh, Brazilian butt lift. Yeah. Yes. That's what it is. But I like that. Your guest was pretty. It was fantastic. Big butt lactose. Big butt lactose. Hey, you got that big butt lactose over there, man. So wait, you was going to get a BBL for real? No. Oh. I'm like, damn, how bad is it was in his country that the girls got... No, you see, Dave's dad told him when he was very young. He said, there are no gender roles in this house. men can get BBLs and women can get BBLs and Dave was very close to his grandmother so Dave was like I'm gonna get a BBL as well so there was a guy who invented insulin you know the story about the guy who invented the insulin for diabetic patients I think I know which story well he wanted it to be cheap for everybody I think a dollar or something some company bought it And he said, hey, you can buy it, but as long as you make it available for everybody and really cheap.

1:18:26They said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they actually jacked up the price to like$300,$400, even$1 ,000. Yeah. It's one of the most frustrating things about healthcare in general is that everyone gets frustrated by it. And really no one needs to be. But then the quote unquote bad guys are very good at obscuring their role in making the system worse. Does that make sense? Yeah So there's people who buy patents on drugs for instance Or they buy the companies who own the patents on the drugs And then they can just jack up the price So they'll know there's one medicine That treats a specific disease that's very niche Like they go, this disease You have to have the medication, it's not an option But then they'll buy the company That owns the patent And then they just jack up the price So where did that guy want to hold on to it?

1:19:14Oh I have a question for him Because he's Where Are you going to choke? No, no. It's a real question. I'm just trying to think of how to phrase it correctly. When did you start to think, sorry, it's a bit of a, when did you start to think that you were a funny person because of the electrical engineering? Actually, that is a good question. Do you know what I mean? When were you like, I am? When I was young, two things out there was amazing, was eating and laughing. I remember laughing my ass off. I'm like, there can be nothing better than this. Like I was just, you know, laughing and then you laugh so much.

1:19:57And then eating good foods, as I got older, it was eating healthier foods was better and laughing was still in the game. And so I always thought laughing was the best thing in life. But what I mean is because remember, you've just, your family has come from quite trying circumstances. Like you've sort of like, in terms of you didn't, we've spent a lot of time telling us not a funny story. So now was there any humor in your family because of all this kind of stuff was happening? Yes. Even in Haiti, people were still enjoying their lives. Not having is not your life. It's like you still laugh. You still have a good time.

1:20:38You still go to the movies. You still cook good foods. So being poor was not like, oh, we're poor. But no, people don't think like that. They just think like, hey, we do with the best that we have, but we still enjoy our lives. There was a lot of laughter in my house. My dad used to make jokes. As strict as my dad was, he would make jokes. My mother would make jokes. You know, there was, you know, laughter. You know, but at the same time, you got to do your homework. You got to go to church, you know. But, you know, laughter was a good, you know. We used to always have dinner together. And my dad would say a few jokes.

1:21:12Hardly say jokes, but we laugh. We'll laugh and stuff. So I just remember those were good times, you know? But my dad was also solid. Like, does that make sense? Like a hardcore. Strict disciplinarian guy. Like a man. Like he never really showed emotion. Oh, yeah, yeah. We know those guys. Yeah, yeah. Never showed emotion. They were like a very specific generation. Yeah, so my mother would go around the table. How was school today? Any stories happen? How was school? What happened? Then got to my dad. My dad said, yeah, I was in downtown. Someone came with a gun, put it in my face, asked me for my wallet.

1:21:47I gave it to him, and then he'd go away. And we're like, and my dad was like, anybody else have stories? And by the way, he pistoled with my dad. He hit him in the face with a gun. But he's telling this story like, oh, yeah, I went to the park, and I swung on the swings. That's how he told the story. But you're having a very, I don't want to say, you're having like a very well-grounded family life. You know, sitting at the table. No, I mean in the sense of your upbringing. Sitting at the table with the whole family, mother saying each person tell the story, you know, that kind of thing. So this is a very, like, almost like the family that TV has told us is a family.

1:22:32You had that childhood, in a way. Or a certain portion of it. Yeah, I guess, yeah. I mean eating together Was like a Was the norm I never I didn't even think I thought all families Eating together No no no That's not normal Or rather It is not as Ubiquitous as it may seem Not everyone is doing it We used to pray together also Yeah all these things Dave's right This is very wholesome So were you the funny kid In the family I was to my To my Brothers My dad You know You get your ass whooped But I was I used to do practice I used to like hide And scare them Or like I used to like Switch their plates You know Remove the burger And put like More lettuce in there And when they bite it And I'll be holding the burger Are you looking for this?

1:23:20You know What was the first thing You remember seeing That made you think I want to get into comedy Like specifically comedy Because I know Every comedian Has something they saw That made them think Two people Yeah Ronnie Dangerfield Okay And Joan Rivers interesting Cavani Dangerfield was the first one I saw he talked about himself and it was okay hey the girl said come on over Cavani come on over nobody's home I went on over nobody was home I get no respect I remember that I was laughing at Joan Babers how old were you when you were when you were listening to this for the first time oh I can't remember how old was too young but I just remember like those two was like so funny I didn't get into Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy till later yeah you know um because we were not allowed to but those two was on tv yeah yeah so i got to see those two a lot uh i think eddie murphy was not really on tv and and also he was on snl and that came out on too late so i was after the 10 p.m curfew yeah yeah exactly um and richard pryer was was in the movies and stuff so i didn't really get into those two like to later later on and stuff How did you start stand-up?

1:24:37I ran into a comedian named Dougie Doug up in Harlem. Dougie Doug was in the movie, the Jamaican bobsled movie. Oh, Cool Runnings. Cool Runnings, yeah. He was one of the, and then I said, yo, man, you're amazing, man. And he invited me to his club, the Uptown Comedy Club, and then I just went there, and that was it. Like a fan, you said you're amazing, then he said you must come and be a comedian. Oh, no, no, no, no. I asked him, I said, how did you, I was kind of like interviewing him. How did you get into it? How to do it? I was like, Ducky Ducky was having a tough time at his comedy club. People were like, hey man, can I get a selfie?

1:25:13He's like, yo, if you're going to do five minutes tonight, man, we need an act. No, but I was interviewing him and it seemed like all the questions about how did you get into comedy. I love that you say interviewing him. You said this about your dad as well. You said this like your definition of interview is very different. anytime Will sees one person asking another person any questions, Will's like, yeah, that's an interview right there. I bumped into Dougie Doug and I interviewed him. And my dad was interviewing my mom that one night about why the potatoes seemed a little less tasty than usual.

1:25:51So Dougie Doug was the one that got me... So he said, come through. He said, come through the comedy club. At what point in your life is this? Actually, my boss, I used to work at a company called International Robotics. We used to build robots. In fact, one of our robots was in the movie Rocky IV. Did you see the Rocky movies? Yeah. You saw the Rocky movies? Remember that robot came out with the cake for the birthday? No, I don't remember this. So you didn't see Rocky IV? No, I saw Rocky IV. I just don't remember the robot. Did you see Rocky III? Yes, I've seen all the Rockies. You don't remember a big robot that came out with a big round head?

1:26:23I don't. That's not like the thing. Did you see Rockies? I did. Do you remember the robot? I can say that... It's a yes or no question. It's a no. I do not remember it. I'm going to look this up right now. But I may remember the party. Do you know what I mean? I'm going to look this up right now. The robot's name is Cisco. Cisco spelled how? S-I-C-O. Is this when you're an engineer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was working at that company. Where did you go to school? I went to school in New York Tech and City College. And then you... And then... I got a job at... Oh, damn, here it is. Paulie and his robots Yeah Paulie Rocky's Robot comes out Brother-in-law See it?

1:27:07Where's the words? Happy birthday, Paulie Oh yeah, I don't remember This scene at all

1:27:17I don't remember this at all See? I would be lying If I said I remember this scene But you said you saw the movie though, right? I've definitely seen the movie This I don't remember Yeah So that was your robot? Yeah I worked on that robot No ways Will Yeah You were in Rocky? No No I worked on that robot after I came to that job after that Okay got it But that robot was still at the job I was working on And so my boss at that job He's the one that actually told me you should do stand up What is his way of soft firing you? No actually he allowed me Hey, Will, I've seen some of the work that you've done.

1:27:56You should think of comedy, man. You should... You should quit the day job. I saw the way you connected those cables. You would be a very funny guy. He actually said, quit the day job. So he said you should be a stand-up comic? He said, don't quit the day job. Yeah, he said quit your day job. So he was a stand-up comedian. So he gave me a CD, Robin Harris CD, and I listened to it every day for a year straight. I couldn't stop laughing. and I laughed almost every time I listened to that CD. I'm like, yo, is this happening somewhere? Where can I go see comedy like this? Then a few months later, that's when I ran to Dougie Doug in Harlem and he invited me to do it.

1:28:37What was it like the first time? So you get to Dougie Doug's club? I was just like a student-ish or a customer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they knew that I wanted to be a comic, you know, the people that was running the show. And one day they had no comedians because all the comics was playing some celebrity basketball game. And they say, hey, you want to be a comic, right? I'm like, yeah, but I'm not ready. Say, yo, you on tonight. And I went on that night and I bombed. What did you talk about? I think one of the jokes were, I don't necessarily, because my English is pretty bad now. I said I don't necessarily pronounce words properly.

1:29:16I made a list of all the words I don't pronounce. And I pulled out a dictionary. I threw it on the floor That's a funny joke actually Did you show that it was a dictionary? I just Yeah that's probably why it didn't work Because I think that's the kind of gag where Everyone has to see that it says dictionary And then you That joke can work very well And that's also more of like a comedy festival joke Than a comedy club joke I think Yes I didn't know any brother I'm just saying You go back in time and you tell Will that was a good joke you might have bombed but it was a good joke but yeah I bombed my ass off but I remember that night after that show no they didn't understand I gotta find a way to make them understand cause one thing that blew my mind I was watching Richard Pryor right I'm like man this guy's funny as hell then they show the audience it was an all white audience I'm like I just assumed the audience is black because he was telling blackish jokes and so when I saw I was like oh comedy is for everybody it shouldn't just be for a group or you know just your people yeah or your people you just gotta find a way to get it's all about language how do I interpretate this you know this is why how do I what it's funny that he said he just said this about language and then Will pulled a will and said did you say interpretate interpretate man Dave don't he's not I know what you're saying.

1:30:50I know what you're saying. Because you interpreted it in your head. I did interpret it in my head. Have you always done that, by the way? That's probably one of my favorite things about you as a human being. What's that? Is that like you've just substituted words in your head. Yeah, my brain look for the nearest word. That should be it. Yeah, but you like, you've done this with, you just say like the craziest word where I'm like, but it's always adjacent. Yeah, we know what you're saying. Yeah, like interpretate. I'm like, yeah, that's correct. I'm willing to accept. What's the word? If it was a game show, I would accept it.

1:31:20So what's interpretate? I don't think that's a thing at all. But what I love is I always understand it. Oh, okay. And that's a word. I do speak fluent well. That's what Patrice Amel used to say. That's a word. That's one of those words that should have been a word. Interpretate. It's not, you know, it's not so bizarre. Yeah, it's not. It's not a bizarre word. Like conversate. I heard conversate is not a real word. No, conversate is a word. Conversate is a word. or is it politicking? Politicking is now a word, I think. No, conversate wasn't a word. It became a word. I think it became... All words weren't words and they became words.

1:31:56No, no, but people, when they use their slang in a way and then it became... So you should just do interpretate more. Right, like, like, yo, I'll talk to this girl but politicking is... Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we used to converse. Yes. Not conversate. Converse is another one, right? No, I'm saying converse... Was the word. Then conversate is like a cool way of saying it. I imagine. I guess. And then it, then, you know, but I don't, if I had to bet like Webster's Dictionary or whatever for conversate, I would go. You're willing to bet on that? I would go. No, no, because I didn't hear conversate when I was growing up.

1:32:38You didn't hear conversate? I heard converse. Yeah, yeah, you're correct. Converse is a proper way. Yes. Yo, No, conversate goes back to the 19th century. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. No, no, no. Conversate's been a thing. Okay, cool. Conversate. Used for over 200 years. Okay, but you see conversate. Okay, this is actually, sorry, this is my point. Yeah. You see interpretate. Well, actually here, this actually is you, funny enough. Conversate, they say here, conversate is a valid word. So converse is the standard widely accepted verb for engaging in conversation. Conversate is a valid word But it is often viewed as a not real word By strict usage guides And is labeled non-standard That is one of the craziest things ever That's what I said It's a valid word But it is often viewed as a not real word Yes Wow Yeah I remember my teacher used to tell me Conversate is not a real word Kids would be like Yeah I was conversating with And the teacher would stop the whole class That's not a real word It's converse Yes But it is a real word Yeah Every word is sort of like a real word, but what I'm saying is that certain words sound like they could be a word.

1:33:49Yes. Interpretate is one of them. Interpretate, yes. Some are like wrong. I think he's just ahead of your time, Will. Also, a word that's misused for a number of periods of time, it becomes a word. Yes, that's true. Right? Except for Pacific or specific. Well, Pacific is because it's an ocean. Yeah, but Pacific, people use as specific. I was having a stroke. Versus, you know what I'm saying? But that never became. Yeah, because it's Pacific already. Oh. It's got to be a new word. We've already got Pacific. So you can't say Pacific? Are you in Pacific? I'm saying pacifically. That word won't work.

1:34:29That's what I'm saying. Say it again. Pacifically, that word. But you didn't say specifically. No, I'm saying pacifically. why you say it I won't say any of this stuff that you guys are saying but

1:34:45what

1:34:50because you're just butchering the Queen's English do you know what I mean we are indeed he's so colonized look at him the Queen's English that's why I told you that I wouldn't be saving people he would be a house negro yeah that's what I told you I told you so wait so you okay you get on stage you bomb how long did it take before you got like your first laugh? The next time I went on. Oh, so you went back? I waited six months. Yeah. It was September. Yeah. And I went up again in December, January. What did you change? I made sure that in the stew I was saying. And then I opened up with a different joke.

1:35:21And what was the new joke? The new joke was if I ever make it to the top, if I ever come across the money, no more ugly girls for me. Because I'm ugly too. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's a good joke. That's a great joke. Now, in between. That's a nice one. In between bombing and this whole thing, what happened? No, I mean, in the sense, did you, because you obviously did not go and stay. I kept replaying that moment, even though it was like trauma, getting booed. But I kept replaying in my head. Well, you got booed? The first time. Oh, I didn't. You said bombed. You didn't say booed. In the black neighborhood, you bomb, you booed.

1:36:06Okay, no. Bombing is, when I hear bombing, I think silence. Like when comedians be like, oh, I bombed hard, it means silence. Yeah? Yeah, when you get booed. Yeah, booed is different. Booed is like, whoo-wee. That's how you bomb in the black? Yes, that is true. No, I mean, that's true, but I'm saying you didn't say that before. This is now, I feel even more for you. So you thought I was at a white club in Harlem? No, I just thought. Because white people are the ones that, that's, in your definition, booed, bomb. Yeah, bombed is just silence. They just stay quiet. Yeah, they just... No, no, black people gotta let you know, yo, this ain't happening.

1:36:39You know, even like you talk about Japanese people, they will stay silent. No, no, no, I mean, because they're so respectful, stay silent when you're killing. Yeah, killing or dying, you won't know. Yeah, you'll be doing well. I'm just gonna make a connection with bombed and Japanese people. No, no, no. No, damn. God damn. I'm not trying to... No, well, I'm just saying that the respect, because they don't, well, now it's a bit different, but before culturally, because it's like, I don't want to, oh, this one I've heard at least. I don't want to interrupt your performance. No, it was like that.

1:37:12When I did shows in Japan, then there were a lot of Japanese people in the audience and I thought I was just not connecting with them at all. And then there were a lot of expats as well. So people from all over the world who live in Japan, they were having a good time. And then I remember after the show, I met a bunch of people in the streets. This was in Tokyo. And then a lot of Japanese people came up after the show And they're like, oh, you know, can I get a selfie? Can I get an autograph, et cetera? And then there were a few people. And you know how it is as a comedian. You remember the people.

1:37:37And I was like, yo, you didn't laugh once. And then he was like, oh, no. He's like, I couldn't laugh. He's like, I didn't want to laugh while you were there. It was very funny, but I didn't want to interrupt you. And I was like, man, that is the exact opposite reaction that we were looking for. This is the exact opposite reaction. You know, when I was in China, right? That's how amazing Chinese people are. I did shows in China. and there would be Chinese people sitting in the audience not laughing, right? And then they'll come, and then so there was this one Chinese guy, he followed me to all my shows.

1:38:09By the seventh show, I'm like, dude, you come to the shows, you're not laughing. He goes, I'm learning English. Oh, wow. They would just come to the show to learn English. That's how dope Chinese people are. They just, I just, and then he said, the first show he didn't speak any English. By the seventh show, he was having a fairly good conversation. He was going around saying your ex. No, basically. He said, they were just figuring out at my show. I'm like, oh. You know what I'm loving right now is the idea that there is a Chinese man somewhere, maybe still in China, who's walking around saying interpretate and Pacific.

1:38:50I was going to say, no more ugly girls for me. But sorry, so you're replaying this thing in your head, but you didn't go on stage. I didn't go on stage. No, no, no. So you were still back at the robotics firm? I worked at robotics for a long time. Yeah. You know. How many years? Because my boss allowed me to, oh, man. Maybe seven, ten years. Oh, yeah. This is a full leg job, John. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my boss allowed me to do shows. And because sometimes my shows will, you know, and he gave me the keys to the shop. He said, I'll just leave a work order. You come in. You come in 3 o 'clock in the morning.

1:39:29You just come after my shows, work on the robot, check off the list on things I did, and then leave. And so that made it easy. That's a great boss, man. It made it easy until someone told me, he said, man, you would never take comedy far. Because he asked me, comedy? I'm really loving comedy. He said, you'll never take comedy far as long as you have that safety net. Who said this to you? Some dude. Some dude? The same Chinese guy who learned to... Yo, what? Yeah, because you would never... And you believe this person? Yeah, so I quit my job. That is the worst advice anyone could ever give anyone.

1:40:10As long as you have a safe net, you won't take... I think the exact opposite is true. If you want to enjoy your comedy and you want to be a great comedian, just have it as your hobby. Do it as like... I think there's nothing worse for an audience than the smell of desperation. You know when a comedian gets on stage And the audience is like This person needs us to laugh at the jokes Or their rent won't be paid There's a different feeling in the room I thought only animals could smell No humans can as well No no no humans can as well trust me Trust me When a comedian gets on stage And they're doing it for the love of comedy Like really for the love Like when Dave and I started doing comedy shows in South Africa Like Dave would put this He put this room together It was weird it was hard at first It was this whole thing But there was no money and we did the room for the room.

1:40:59We did it for comedy and then we like had jobs and we'd get money from other things. But I've always felt the comedy that comedians make from passion is far superior to the comedy they make from survival. Yeah, that's true. There's just like a joy, man. There's a different type of, you know? Yeah, you go out because you want to go out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also the, you're not pandering to an audience because that's your livelihood. So you don't go, let me make this joke because this joke works. You're going, I like this joke. Let's figure it out. And I can afford to like this joke.

1:41:35That is true. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you're doing it because you had to survive, you do whatever thing you got to do to get for the last. Exactly. So you can keep getting work. Yeah. Versus like, hey, it didn't work. We'll try another time. Exactly. That's genuinely my opinion. Sorry, question. No, no. Now, while you're doing this kind of comedy and stuff, no, I mean work slash comedy, work slash comedy, how long is this work slash comedy going for? I don't know. No, I mean, you know, is it like from day one of working at the engineering or is it like towards the end?

1:42:13Do you know what I mean? No, no, no, no. Towards the middle-ish. Middle-ish. Okay, cool. And then are your family seeing you? no because my it was we were not allowed to do because comedy was like my my dad my mother was like no just make us laugh if that's the case you know throwing your future like you know you had to be engineer you had to be a doctor you had to be a lawyer you know and because because the thing was you know education good job then you get a family then you take over the house yeah you know only in America, where you, when you turn 18, you leave the house. In a Haitian household, well, at least when I was growing up, no, the family always stay together.

1:42:57When you become 18, then you get a job. Then when you get a good job, you get a wife. Then you, then the, all right, now you're the head of the house. Oh, you just take over the household. You just take over the household. I think that's, there's a version of that in sort of every culture. then they go, they take over that, their wife's household and vice versa, you know, but, but, you know, you don't leave the family ever it's like it's like fast and the furious it's all about family it's all about family yeah so um so family was a big thing i mean so you saying comedy is basically like saying i don't give a shit about family no we we could didn't see value in in doing stand-up you know where they come from a doctor or engineer or lawyer was the way because because one of the most important things is how you're going to support how you're going to make money.

1:43:51And the top things to make money was doctors, lawyers, engineers. What did they do when they discovered you were doing comedy, like you were moonlighting as a comedian? So one day I did a show that came on late at night. I didn't think it was going to, you know. My mother normally goes to bed by 10. And so my little brother came and she said, hey, Ma, I saw you on TV. Oh, man. I was who she say? You'll see when you get home. and then my mother's in the living room talking to her friends and I walk in we had the the living room with the beads as a door yeah yeah yeah so I walked in they all heard me coming through the beads and they just look and they all start talking and one of them go is that the comedian there?

1:44:33and they just started laughing I ain't say nothing they just started laughing and my mother that's my that's my favorite son

1:44:45come on ma and then and then it was acceptable I guess when they see there's a way to make money there's a living and then laughter also it brings people together so there's so many things happening I guess when my mother first saw me on TV for the first time first of all she's like is that is that weed you know I try to picture like what was going through her mind when she was you know first of all it's 1am what is she doing up at 1am you know you know that's number one number two she's just flipping through the channels look probably looking for the news that's wild and she bumps into you and then she she what do you remember what the show was uh some show about their part not the apollo yeah it's another show that apollo was producing and um and and and then my my brother told me because not my mother but she was flipping through channels and then she stopped and and well made her stop because because she is that will and she just you know watched it you know and then that's insane that's really amazing it is yeah just think of all all the variables that have to come together for that to happen yeah your mom has to be up past her bedtime yeah which she isn't normally yeah your mom is flipping through channels remember there's no tv guide when this is happening she's up she's making tea She's on the phone So now she's flipping channels She bumps into you I'm assuming you're not doing a long set on this show No, no, five minutes Five minutes So she has a five minute window to catch you Yeah A 30 minute show Yeah Within that five minutes And so she catches this five minutes of her son And he's not bombing You know what?

1:46:26Yeah You know what this is saying? You know what this is saying? Because you're an engineer at this point A Haitian engineer So it's like Why not just an engineer? What's a Haitian engineer? I'm trying to put it in No, no, I'm trying to put it in the sense of like, you're not a engineer from Long Island and your family's Jerry Seinfeld. And we talk about comedy all the time. And Ben Stiller, you know what I mean? People who are, or the priors or Murphys who are comedy could happen. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, no. Or LeBron and flipping and he sees one of his cousins or someone playing basketball.

1:47:02I'm saying you are firmly not comedy people. It's the same as like if she flipped and you were doing like the rocket launch. Or playing basketball for the Knicks. Yes. That would be. But he had no idea. Is that weird doing a slam dunk?

1:47:24This is just like. That's crazy. I'm really happy that that happened for you guys though. Because I wonder if you ever would have had the guts to tell her. But most cultures from these small countries or these whatever countries, in those days, information was not that readily available. No, no, no, no, no. And the thing that most of them knew is like, you know, you got to make money. What's the number one reason why people migrate to America in those days? Yeah, it's money. Opportunity. I would assume what Trevor's saying is that let's say you had a tape of that thing. Firstly, you were never going to tell it in a way.

1:48:01and if you had a tape of that and gave it to her, a tape is too, but you gave me the tape. That's exactly what I mean. You, not staged, but you gave me a tape. That's exactly what I mean. The fact that she saw it on live TV. Yeah. Yes. That must've been amazing for her. Like genuinely, genuinely amazing. And for you as well. Yeah. I was still absorbing the fact that she saw me on TV. Like what's going to happen? Like, you know. Yeah. Did that change your relationship afterwards? With my mother? Yeah. No I always like She was always on a high pedestal No but I mean like from her to you Did she like now be like Where's my comedian going Or what are you doing these days Comedy boy or you know In a good way She always viewed me as like The number one son somehow Oh that's beautiful Except for your bro I didn't realize until later I thought my older brother was the number one son For a long time Do you ever wonder if she just said this to all of you in a different way.

1:49:01Are you saying this? Because no other son is ever around when you say I'm a number one son. Yeah, because I feel like that's a great parent will just pull you aside and be like, you know you were always my favorite kid, but don't tell your brother. You know you were always my favorite, but don't tell your brother. You just tell every brother and then they just go like, man, I feel bad for my brothers. Because that was always the favorite. But I did have a connection with my mother because I was close to with her mother. And you were also her son. Yeah, because my grandmother... No, my grandmother was like very close.

1:49:29Yeah, yeah. We were like best of friends. Right. And so my mother was like, out of all of them, why him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my grandma was like, no, he's amazing and stuff. And so I think that, you know, when my grandmother died, my mother must have cried every day for a year straight. Oh, man. And then she looked to me like, you know, did she tell you anything? Any stories you could share? Like, no, just saying stories she shared with anybody else. Yeah, you were the connection. Yeah, yeah. So I think that's why she could start connecting with me more and more, you know. Don't press anything.

1:50:04We've got more What Now after this. Hey, everyone. It's Stavros Halakis, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavis World. Each week, we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes or grocery shopping or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating life and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner.

1:50:38No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back. Listen to Stavi's World wherever you get your podcasts. Feeling short on smiles? Does your frown need to be turned upside down? We got the perfect dose of comedy, 30 minutes of Scrubs. Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. It's just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases. Scrubs premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives.

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1:52:12When would you say comedy clicked in your life? Like, and I mean like click, because I mean, you know, already when I met you, you know, you were a regular hosting shows at the Comedy Cellar. And the Comedy Cellar is one of the most discerning comedy institutions in the world. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't matter if you have 10 million followers on social media, SD is not going to put you on stage at the Comedy Cellar. But you could have five followers and she'll put you on stage. Well, that's the thing about SD. A lot of people know the Comedy Cellar, one of the most successful comedy clubs happening right now.

1:52:51Yeah. And I blame Esty. You blame her? In a good way. Or you credit her? I credit her. Oh, okay. One of those words I'm using differently. Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah. So she's the reason why because she just don't put a lineup up. She actually watched the videotapes at all the shows. And then she determines, okay, I got to put this guy on first. I gotta put this person I can't follow this person she actually studies comedy yeah you can tell man and she puts an amazing lineup up which is why we get all these shows happening at the cellar and we get more work yeah and they care about comedy itself yeah and you see it in the product and then the people feel it when they come in but what I mean about clicking is then you have Liz the manager yeah who doing an amazing job because they was going to different managers and they couldn't get it together when they got Liz in it all clicked and amazing lineup and amazing management, you know?

1:53:45But then back to what my dad said about women good, having a good woman in your life. Oh, yeah. I think the owner, the seller, he has two great women in his life and they're doing amazing things. It's like, you know, people always, let me not say people, I don't know, but the world discredit women so much. They put women down, you know, and women got to work twice as hard. Twice as hard, but the thing is, women are way smarter than men, I feel like. But, you know, we got the guns in power. I don't have any guns. No, you know what I'm saying. No, I'm joking, Will. I'm joking. Yeah, but what I mean about the clicking, though, is like I go, when you look, I don't want to say back because it's not like your life is finished, but when you look at your career in comedy now, you have to admit it's pretty crazy that you've done shows with like, you know what I mean?

1:54:39You were touring with like the Wayans brothers. Yeah, Wayne's brothers Demi Wayans Wayne's brothers Yeah Cat Williams Cat Williams Cat Williams is amazing By the way, don't listen to none of the stuff about Cat Williams He's That dude is amazing Oh, that's the stuff I heard What do you mean? Oh, oh What's the other stuff? That he's He's nuts He's nuts He's nuts Cat Williams He's the only person that I know You might know someone like this He's the only one that I know When he gets to a town He'll get the local paper And read the whole paper And his first 10, 15 minutes or 20 minutes Will be on that town The crowd go crazy It's almost having Like a local Open Yeah yeah But it's Cat Williams But it's Cat Williams That's telling jokes About your people One of the One of the most fascinating People I ever met And he loves comedy man Oh yeah yeah That man loves Comedy Yeah yeah yeah Loves comedy One of my favorite things That ever happened in my life was I probably like Credit Cat With even giving me An opportunity In comedy In Los Angeles I used to try and get spots At the Commerce store No The Laugh Factory Couldn't get any spots They were always just like Yeah come back next week Yeah come back next week Yeah come back next week Now the funny thing was I was doing pretty well In South Africa But these guys didn't know Who I was And they didn't need to know There's no reason They should have known Who I was you know So I'd just show up every week And because South Africa's Comedy scene was so intimate You could just show up And say Hey can I perform And people would be like Alright get on It was like Dougie Doug's club It was like the black clubs in america also you just walk in yeah it's just like come on come on come on come on come on so i i get to um la go to these clubs man they just everyone and the thing about la is nobody says no in that town right because everybody in that town is not sure who you are or who you may end up becoming yeah so they never want to be the person who said no to you so it's just a town of people saying fake yeses and maybes yeah that keep you on a treadmill of hope yeah so something happens i discovered you yeah that's literally it so i'd go to the comedy store and i'd be like can i perform and they'd be like uh what are your credits kid and what have you done and what are you i was like oh you know south africa they're like no no we mean real credits what are you you know i'll go to another club and another club and anyway i just like your credit cards and i'll just go this is this is something i'm trying to do i'm trying well Whatever I didn't really mind And so one day I'm at the The Laugh Factory And The comedian The guy who was running it Actually Pookie Wigington You know Pookie?

1:57:11Yeah Yeah everybody knows Pookie Yeah yeah So Pookie would like Put on the show Called Chocolate Sundays And They go Hey The comedian who was supposed to go on Dropped out You're here like every week They're like You ready to go up? I was like yeah I'm ready So they go okay You're gonna go on before the host, before the opener. Oh, you had to warm up for the host. Yeah, but they didn't tell me that. They didn't explain that. Because I don't know if you know this, Dave. I didn't know this. In some clubs in America, they have a comedian who comes on before the show starts. I did not know this. But that's like the worst slot in all of comedy because they don't even play music for you when you walk out.

1:57:53Like you are, you exist before the show. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know this. Because the host is a prominent name. Not even, not even. It's just a like, you know those stories they would tell in war of certain soldiers who were chosen to be on the front lines just as Fada. Yes. Your job was to be killed in the front lines so that like the respected soldiers could actually survive the fight. Yes. That's what that position is in comedy. You're going to go up there. You're going to talk. No one's going to listen. But at least it sets in motion the idea that a show is going to start. Yes. And then the host comes up and the music plays.

1:58:31So anyway, I go on stage. I ask very naively. I say, is someone going to introduce me? And then the guy's like, he's like, no, man. He's like, you're up first. Get on stage. So I'm like, God damn, okay. So I walk on stage. No one is paying attention. They're getting food orders. Like it's the worst position you can ever be in. So I start doing like my sets. You know, I'm like telling the joke, but no one is listening. no one i had they gave me four minutes or three i even remember then i was like three minutes like what do you say in three minutes hello and you know so i start doing my sets and about like a minute in it's now just silence so the room is they've they're done taking orders but now it's just silent you got the attention yeah but the attention is just like what is this man what is happening here no one laughing no one doing anything i hit like a minute and a half and then all of a sudden you hear like i hit i hit a punchline land on a punchline and then you hear one person the back of the room top of the room you know that balcony yeah yeah yeah one person ah ah ah ah ah 15-20 seconds later, hit another line.

1:59:53Ah, ah, oh, that shit funny. 20-30 seconds later, now the room starts turning because they're like, the room has decided this is not funny. But there's somebody who's like laughing so loud that they're almost like offended by this. So the room turned, they keep turning. Everyone's trying to turn to see what's happening. And then eventually they look, and I don't know if he leaned or whatever. It's Cat Williams And he's in the balcony And it was all like empty up there So he's like by himself with his crew And he's laughing I mean this man was Like he was dying Like I had paid him Killing himself And the more he laughs The more the crowd But they're looking at him Not me And they're like They're like yeah I guess we laugh now I guess we laugh now And then by the end of the set Thankfully It wasn't a complete disaster and then Cat Williams came down and I'll never forget this, Cat comes down because I walk off stage and Cat comes up to me and then he says to me, he's like, are you really from where you say you're from, young man?

2:01:01And I was like, yeah. And he's like, well, welcome to America, brother. And I was like, thank you, Cat. Thank you very much. I was like, it's good meeting you and whatever. And we're chatting about comedy. He's like, come sit with me. Come sit and go sit with him. And then he, I think it was Esau McGraw was hosting that night. So Esau's hosting They do the thing Cat jumps onto headline He was not on the lineup He's just He's Cat So Cat jumps on at the end Does his thing But then Cat says to the audience He starts talking about comedy Then he's like You ungrateful sons of bitches Don't even understand The level of comedy You were experiencing here tonight This young man from South Africa Stood on stage And he regaled you With some of the finest humor But you ignorant people of Los Angeles were unable to comprehend what you were experiencing and this may never happen again in your lifetimes and then he looks at me in the balcony he's like my African brother I apologize for the ignorance of these who were gathered here in your midst and now I'm like yo bro you don't need to do but he just went on and he killed and he did like you know he did whatever he did you know current affairs his own material did his own stuff did whatever and then at the The way they treated me after that I will never Like they were like Yo so you coming back next week man Yo yo you And people were giving me cards Like yo I got a club You gotta come and do this thing man Yo Genuinely Cat Williams That guy loves comedy Yeah Loves comedians Loves the like He goes to what I'm saying about like Even when I see Cat Williams on stage I feel like Cat Williams Is doing comedy for the joy of the thing that he's doing Yes Does that make sense?

2:02:43Yeah yeah yeah yeah He does not feel, he reminds me to do comedy for the joy of comedy, not for the business of comedy. And the thing is, the business of comedy is so powerful that it can pull you. But the joy of comedy is the thing that will sustain you. Yes, yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Cat Williams, amazing person. He actually, I feel like he does comedy at his level. That makes sense? It's almost like. Yeah, he just does his own. He doesn't care about what you think. It was his own, yeah. I remember when I did the show at the Laugh Factory, I went on, I had an amazing set, and Cat went on after me.

2:03:22And he goes, this nigga, I was going to come up here and just work out some jokes, but this nigga got me telling my old jokes. And the thing is, the way he was saying it, I'm like, is he really mad at me? Right? So after the show, I saw him say, hey, I need to talk to you, come here. I'm like, oh, shit, he was mad. He's like, listen, man. He went in his pocket. I'm like, oh, shit, oh, shit. He said, listen, man, these comedy clubs, they don't be paying what you work. They treat you like shit. And pulled out$400 bills. He said, here, take it. I'm like, thank you. I was so confused with what's happening.

2:04:05Yeah, yeah, yeah. The emotions are everywhere. I'm like, thanks. He said, yeah, take it. And I'm like, wow. No one ever treated me like that. Yeah, my cat. It's just like, you know, you need people like him in comedy. Yeah. Because they love comedy. But that's what I mean. He pulls people up, man. Yeah, look at your life and your career. The Cat Williams, Dave Chappelle, the Chris Rocks, you know what I mean? Dave Chappelle, Chris Bach. Aziz Ansari. Aziz Ansari, another one, yeah. Aziz Ansari put me in his movie. Oh, yeah, that was amazing, actually. Did you see Good Fortune? I will now. I loved Good Fortune.

2:04:37Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Can I tell you what I loved about it? is these days, I think it's becoming increasingly rare to see a movie that you haven't seen before. And I don't just mean that literally, like IP, like so many movies are reboots of other movies or stories, but it's rare to watch a movie where you just don't know what's going to happen because you haven't seen it before. Like he watches movies like that all the time. If Dave ever recommends a movie to you, be very careful. You should watch it, but don't expect anything normal. Like how Cat Williams watched you. Yeah, like Dave only watches movies that have endings.

2:05:18Not your typical ending. Yeah, that leave people, like you walk out of the cinema questioning yourself. Like Sixth Sense. Not even. That's like a chill version. Sixth Sense was not, no one expected. Yeah, that's just a twist. Okay. Dave would watch, okay, this is the kind of movie Dave would watch. It would be Sixth Sense, but everyone would be French. and then the child instead of seeing ghosts would say that like they see the pain that the world is in and then instead of bruce willis it would be a flower and then instead of instead of like a two-hour movie it would be like four and a half those are the kind of movies that dave watches that's a lot of reading no um the one of the reasons is it's a version of what you're saying Is that you I like the thing of Not knowing what's gonna happen That's what I credited you I'm not even slamming you No no no So I'm saying In an ideal world It would be Contained Almost like within Normal Yes I know what you mean Yeah like so Cause every now and then You'll see Let's say a rom-com Yeah Where you know You sort of like know What's gonna happen Yes You know exactly What's gonna happen But the things are so refreshing Within it That you're like Wow I was That's how I felt About Good Fortune And I'm not saying that Cause you were in it I'm not saying that Because of Aziz I genuinely enjoyed That somebody tried To make something And I think succeeded That upended A lot of the ideas That you would have Of how a plot And a story Are supposed to go Yes But still pulls it off Yeah yeah completely And I remember watching it And I was like Oh shit this is And then you walked in And I was like Oh shit Will I felt like such a It's such a weird feeling Because I know you And then you They're in the movie And I was like Oh shit Will You saw that dance routine I did?

2:06:58Yeah that was very good It took me four hours To get that dance routine Is that long? I still didn't get it after four hours oh that's that's what you should mention then you should say after four hours I still didn't have it down if you say I got it in four hours you seem like a good dancer if you say I didn't get it I didn't get it your dancing is very interesting you saw it I didn't see it

2:07:25are you on medication

2:07:29what does that mean aren't you supposed to be a good dancer though because you're a good boxer That's what I was going to say, is that you recently became a boxer. No, he didn't. He recently had his first professional fight. Oh, I thought you recently became a boxer. No, this guy's been boxing for like 50 years. Oh, really? Is that where the speech and pen can come from? Okay, how old are you? I started boxing 2007, no, 2010. Yeah. Yeah, and I got my first professional fight a month ago. Oh, no, I thought you started boxing. But I never had rhythm. When I jump rope, I skip a lot because my rhythm is always off.

2:08:01My rhythm always been off. I can't, you know, when I dance, people think like, you must be white down inside. You know, I never had rhythm. But that's what Haitian family, Haitians have rhythm. We have, yes, a lot of rhythm in Haiti. But since we're not in Haiti, we're in America. My dad made sure, focused on your schoolwork. So he's like, no rhythm for my kids. Your dad was a hard man. Your dad was a hard guy. Yeah, your dad was a really hard man. Is that rhythm right here in your room? Is that rhythm? Are you dancing to the beat wheel?

2:08:44That is crazy. So I never really developed. No one taught me how to dance. My parents didn't teach you how to dance. You know, we couldn't really be around girls and stuff because my mother said, if you hug a girl, she'll get pregnant, so make sure you don't hug no girls. Wow. I didn't get my first hug until I was 16. You were trying to get her pregnant? My first hug outside of my family. You know, when your mother give you a hug, my arms are always like, yeah, I love you too. I love you too. Yeah, because you don't want to get your mom pregnant.

2:09:13I mean, you can't leave a child with that information. You can't say to a child, if you hug a woman, she'll get pregnant. And then you're like, no, come give your mom a hug. So the thing is, my first hug, ironically, was from a priest. Oh, wow. I was very religious. Wow. I was born, raised Catholic. Should we get ready for another bum shell on this show? No, no, no, no. Okay, okay. So it was one of these Saturday classes, CCD. And then all the kids was greeting and hugging each other. And I was just on the side just watching, you know. And then Father Brennan, Father John, one of them, came up to me.

2:09:48He goes, why are you not greeting? I'm like, I never hugged anybody. I don't know what to do. He said, you never hug nobody. He said he had the big brown robe on with the big ass arms. He said, come here. He opened his arms. I just went in and he hugged me. I was like, holy shit, it felt so good. Oh, Will. But my penis didn't get hard. That's how I knew I was like, you know what I'm saying? No one thought your penis got hard. It was genuine. It was genuine. No one thought that. Huh? Nobody thought that. No, because this guy said, Can I have some popcorn? And we're not going to put gravy on top.

2:10:28We didn't think that popcorn came to do it. No, because the whole, you get someone pregnant. You just said, Wilson. That's how I knew it wasn't genuine. That's how I knew it was genuine. But he's a guy. Oh, man. Because I'm like, okay, no one's going to get pregnant. It happened to be a girl. It was just a hug. It was just a hug. It ain't got to do with sex. It was just a hug. It felt so good. And I'm like, I got to do this again. But it took me another until I got to 18 to do it again. who was the 18 hug my first girlfriend oh look at that my first girlfriend uh but i we did i avoided having sex with her because i was very religious that's good that's fine they didn't have sex i was 24 i was versioned i was 24.

2:11:09wow but i used to lie to girls like oh oh i gotta go i gotta go to work oh i gotta do some homework i gotta go back to class oh when we'd be butt naked oh no i forgot yeah and i get and i and i leave the place damn you were because you were so scared of sex because you were religious you're like i gotta get out of this situation yes resisting temptation essentially yes yeah yeah and then you were like my boss gave me the keys so i can i can clock in at any time there's a work order waiting for me i gotta yeah and then you'd run out i run out and girls like okay all right um all right yeah i wonder if one of your girlfriends thought you were like a superhero or because that's what like peter parker does think about it peter parker will be on a date oh yeah yeah and then out of nowhere will be like i gotta go and it's like what happened and it was his spidey sense yeah there's a crime somewhere yeah same batman will be the same thing superman same vibe so maybe one of them was like he's a superhero and then they're gonna watch this podcast and be like no he he thought he was gonna have It was religious.

2:12:10He just wanted to get to heaven. Religious from hate. So what happened at 24? 24, I met this girl, got her back to my place. We'll call her S. Okay. And we started making out. And you want to hear the story? No, no, no. You don't have to give me the details. I just want to know what changed, Robert. Because you were always like the escape artist. I was like, what am I doing? I got to, let me just, you know. Okay. Make it happen, you know. And, you know, we made it happen. Was this will pre, because there's a will that existed, like sort of pre the healthy, pre the boxing. Health was always in the back of my head.

2:12:58Yeah. Even when I was little, health was very, because actually when my grandmother passed away, I'm like, man, if she was living a healthier life, she probably would have been here longer you know and then you know then you know so health was always there always there but i never really took initiative until later on until you know what changed my life about health was two two things i did a show with a tank top on and i was dating this girl and i did a great show and i got off stage and she said Abel was saying good job, good job she said either do either wear a shirt or wear the tank top without the stomach I go what?

2:13:40what does that mean? I had a big stomach but nice arms what did you weigh at your heaviest? 220 have you seen Will's pictures at his heaviest? I've only ever seen this Will if you see Will's pictures at his heaviest it's a pretty amazing transformation? yeah I used that word correctly? yeah you used that word When did the transformation happen? 2007. I gave up. In fact, every year I was giving something up. That year I gave up poultry. All types of turkeys, chicken. I gave up poultry. I thought that was going to be very hard. And I gave up poultry. The next year I gave up fried things. Anything fried.

2:14:23Okay. Right? Then the year after that I gave up Ice cream And like you know Like a lot of sugary things Okay But I Sugar always kept coming back and forth Then the Sugar's the devil man Yeah Will sent me a DM This morning About sugar That's probably like the only thing Will sends me He just sent me like a random message Out of the blue Sugar is killing you Let me tell you what sugar does To the human body Dementia Yeah yeah yeah Information No, you sent me the video. I know, I know, I know. And then the hardest thing - It's almost like you know when I'm on my couch about to have ice cream, and then you DM me, and I'm like, huh, what's this?

2:15:03Sugar will destroy your life. Sugar will make cancer in your brain. And I'm like, oh, thank you, Will. And so the one year, this is the fourth or fifth year, I was getting up dairy. I'm like, oh, if I give a chicken, I give it, it's going to be easy. Dairy was so hard, because I love cheese. I used to put cheese on everything. If there was cheese, put extra cheese. It never had cheese? Well, let's try and see what happens. You know, and then I read up on why is it so hard? And that's when I first started doing research on health. And it's addicting. Dairy is probably the worst thing you could put in your body.

2:15:42It causes so much inflammation. No, but which dairy? You always say this and I always fight against this. Which dairy? You got to be specific. Because, like, it can't just be dairy. Milk. They use milk for so many things Yeah but what I mean is this right This is like Except for eggs Sorry to bring like the listeners slash you Into like these conversations That I have with Will So my thing with Will is this I think sometimes you are so obsessed With the pursuit of health That you will make like the unhealthy decision Or the you know what I mean Or a decision that isn't necessarily backed By like the People have eaten dairy since forever yes there are unhealthy ways to eat things and there are healthy ways to eat things right there are there are healthier cheeses than other cheeses there are good things you can get from cheeses that you know what i mean they're like i okay here's what i'll say i think if you you could eat a little more cheese and sleep more and your health would be better that's what i'm saying i'm saying three hours of sleep is worse for your health than cheese oh yeah i mean look everything for a healthy lifestyle good sleep eating healthy exercising yeah all that you know you can't settle to one you can't say oh i eat more cheese but sleep more or yeah everything contributes to your health in a different form or pattern but no cheese no because so what do you eat now okay what do you eat now you know why i gave up chicken and people always say won't get what's the healthy chicken?

2:17:21What's the healthy chicken? Organic chicken? Organic chicken. Yeah, yeah. And the reason why I gave it up is because if I go someplace, right, and they don't have organic chicken, they just got the drug-infested chicken. Like free range. Drug-infested chicken. This man just said drug-infested chicken. Right? Oh, man. The chicken they put all the drugs into. No, I know. But I've never heard anyone call it drug-infested chicken. the crackhead just rocked up man i'm just picturing like chicken this is like on the farm oh man come on man okay so yeah so if i go there they don't have yeah the healthy chicken if i got the craving for it i'm just gonna eat the bad chicken because you're already eating so i just like if i give up entirely then i won't have the i the cravings will eventually leave my body yeah and so i won't i won't care if i had you know that makes sense yeah yeah so But what do you eat now?

2:18:12Basically, I'm a pescatarian. Fish, veggies, foods, and nuts. Are you worried now that fish is being farmed and is becoming sick now and it's not - Well, I try not to get farm-based fish. I get my fish from a place that they catch the fish fresh. Yeah. And they ship it to your house real quick. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't know that that's a thing. Yeah. A place called, okay, shout out someplace. Yeah, you can say it's a real thing. From sea to table. From sea to table. Yeah. Oh, it's like a digital service and then you order the fish. You order the fish. They should have gone with like Netfish. That would have been a better one.

2:18:46Oh, yeah. That would have been a cool name. There's a few companies, but Seas Table is one I use a lot of. Okay. Do you get to like pick the fish itself? They have different fishes. They show you the picture of the fish. And you can pick the fish you want. And they send it to your house. They send it to your house immediately with that hot ice. The styrofoam packing. Yeah. And then you put it in. Yeah. So I really cook most of my foods and stuff. So fish, veggies, you can't really go wrong with veggies, even though they have been making bad veggies. Drug-infested veggies. Drug-infested veggies.

2:19:23Fruits, man, one summer I decided to try a different food I never had. And I got into dragon fruit. I can't even name the food. So many different types of fruits. You are that guy. I will say that. We tend to eat. If you think about it, people tend to eat the same five things, whatever the five things are, for their life. Yeah. For the most part. Huh? Yeah, for the most part. For the most part. And I tried different foods. Some was good, some was bad, according to the taste. And then nuts. And, you know, most of your almonds, cashews. What's the one that looked like your brain? what's the one that looks like a brain walnuts walnuts walnuts yeah walnuts are actually good for your brain ironically because they look like your brain are you going to act more yeah yeah yeah yeah I wrote a movie I Am Maurice you know about it that's the one about the Haitian boxer yeah come from Haiti to America to pursue his boxing career oh I like that you should make him fight Rocky you should The winner gets the robot.

2:20:35The winner gets the robot. And then you... What did you like about acting that you didn't get from stand-up? What is it about... Like when you're doing the movie with Aziz? It's just your creativity. So these are lines, but you be creative with how you want to present these lines. Your scene is really funny, man. Yeah? Yeah, it's properly funny. Oh, thanks. Yeah, Aziz is a great writer because those are his words. Yeah, but it's fantastic. But there's some of the words I did change. Yeah, there were some wills in there. I could tell. I could tell. When we was on the balcony and you got me eating things I can't even pronounce.

2:21:09I couldn't pronounce that special dish. Yeah, no, it was good. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm excited for you, man. I'm excited for this next phase of your... No more professional boxing. I don't think it's necessary. But that's just me. I mean, I'm happy you had a... No, I just wanted to get out of my system. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you win? I won unanimously. That's what I'm talking about, man. fist bump was that um pun intended no pun intended no no pun intended no pun intended this is great dave do you have any questions before i let will go are you doing a set tonight you do set every single night every night at the comedy cellar how many nights off do you take a year i don't take any nights off yeah almost nothing right yeah unless if i gotta travel that like when i go to australia because you miss a day when you travel to australia i can't perform on the plane.

2:21:59Oh, not yet. I can ask one question, but you have to answer it in the shortest possible way. Okay. What do you like about boxing?

2:22:11That it allows me to defend myself, allow me to get aggression out when I hit the bag. Okay, great. Love boxing. Huh. It's not the question I thought you would ask, and that's not the answer that I thought you would give. That's who you are, Will, an international man of mystery. this has been fun my friend thank you very much thanks for having me man yeah man this has been dope you're cancelled why are you gonna say that why would you say that why would you say that you want me what do you mean man of course I want you you're one of my favorite people you know this though you know this come on we've been around the world together we've had meals together we've watched sporting events together we've done stand up comedy together for years we've eaten countless meals we've almost well I mean got killed together Remember that bus driver.

2:23:10Oh, man. Every time I see a sprinter van, I think of you now. Every single time. That journey started with you saying, this is how you should travel. and then I'll never forget in the middle of it Dave stopped because to give context to anyone who's listening or watching this Will is a big fan of sprinter vans for long distance travel I was calling them splinters for some reason yeah you were calling them splinters like the ninja turtles so you were like you gotta get a splinter then I was like what? then you're like a splinter van and I was like oh sprinter van so we decided let's get a sprinter because Will genuinely believes that sprinters are the best way to travel to and from a comedy show voices wait wait Tom Voices?

2:23:57Versus what? Versus an SUV. Yeah. Three hours. Yeah, like a car. Yeah, that's fine. I just go in a normal car. You were like, no, got to get a Sprinter van. But he gave you the picture. He did. In his defense, Will gave me a picture of the Sprinter van that he was talking about. This was a very luxurious It was a very luxurious Sprinter van. It was like, wow, this is great. But then the Sprinter van that turned up for us that you hired looked like a shuttle. Yeah, if you were taking people to... It looked like the shuttle at the airport that now, you know how they've kicked ride share services, now they can't pick you up at most airports?

2:24:32Yes. You've got to get in a shuttle bus, the small ones, that take you to a parking lot in a field. In my memory, it doesn't look like that. In my memory, it looks like if you were no longer... How can I put it? If you were no longer... If you had overstayed your visit in the country and they needed to take you to the border, they would use this. I was going to say the prison, the one they transformed the prisoners. from one place to another. Yeah, it did have that vibe. It did have that vibe. Except they also had, it also had depressing like stripper lighting. Oh yeah. If you remember that. Yeah.

2:25:06So it felt like we were all on a bachelor party but of someone who's been like divorced four times and now the money's run out and things are really bad. And we're in the car and we're driving. And my favorite memory of this drive is we're two hours into a four hour drive and Dave turned to you mid-conversation and he said, Will, because the wind was blowing so hard that the van kept on tilting over and then the driver would have to stop suddenly in the middle of the highway and then he'd be like, sorry guys, the wind is really bad. And then he'd start driving again and then the bus would tilt over and he'd be like, sorry guys, the wind is really bad.

2:25:45And then Dave turned to you, we were having a regular conversation and Dave turned to you and he said, Will, I'm not going to lie, our friendship is on a thread right now. He said, you and your vehicle have put our friendship on a thread. And I don't know if we're going to be friends after this ride. But let's be honest. The driver was a bad driver. I can't say that about him because it was really windy. Do you remember the truck that was... You don't remember the truck he showed us? One little truck. The FedEx truck. That was a massive truck. One truck. Well, I mean, like one truck blowing in the wind.

2:26:15But every car was... You know what I'm saying? Hey, man. I'm not going to judge the driver. I'm going to judge the person who told us to get the splinter van. because you were very specific about that. Specific. Specific. Will, this was fun, man. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much, man. We'll see you at the show. Yes.

2:26:38Apple Card is designed to support your financial well-being. With unlimited daily cash back on every purchase and the ability to track your spending on your iPhone, Apple Card helps you lead a healthier financial life. So that way you can stress less about money and focus more on enjoying your life. Because you know what I've realized about financial health, Eugene? Here we go No, no, no Are you going to give me some money? I'm going to do something better I'm going to teach you how to keep and manage your money Okay That maybe I'll give you Financial health is a feeling, right? And like most feelings, you don't notice it when you don't have it But you notice it when you finally do That's true, because feelings are fleeting Exactly So when you've got like your financial health It's like It's that moment when you spend money And then you just don't think about it again Do you know what I mean?

2:27:34Beautiful feeling Exactly So you spend money And then you're not second guessing There's no mental math later Oh did I go over? Did I go under? No replaying the decision in your head You just spend it because you know you can And then you're done You can never be done spending Trevor Yes but you can be done Thinking about the spending Eugene And I used to think financial health was about big milestones. Like I thought, financial health will be achieved when I earn more, when I save more, when I do everything right. Yeah, but that's what everyone thinks. That's what everyone thinks. That's the trap.

2:28:06Financial health can happen at any level if you are lucky enough to have finances. Because in real life, it shows up in much smaller ways. It's in the clarity. You know? You know what's coming in. You actually know what's going out. And you're not surprised by your own life. Like, wow, I spent that much on car rides. I spent this much on movie tickets. What am I doing with my life? Or you just know that you're in your budget. Because when you don't know, every decision becomes heavier. You're guessing with your life and your money. Do you know what I mean? But you know what they say? Budgets are like promises.

2:28:42They're meant to be broken. I don't think that's correct. I made it up. Yeah, I totally made it up. You know what? It had a nice feeling. I think let's go with Budgets are like Your face in a mirror When you can actually see it You know what you're dealing with I'm gonna work on this The point is It's gotta be a choice And the more you know, the better your choices can be Does this make sense? Makes absolute sense Exactly, so if people understood that they can make a choice Because they know what's happening And then when you understand it, it changes how you move You decide differently You pause differently You feel more in control Well, not of everything, right?

2:29:24But enough That's financial health to me And over time, those small consistent things Are what make your financial life feel steady Not perfect, just steady You know what? I'll take steady any day Oh, Eugene I like that It wasn't a proposal Oh, I thought you were saying we should go steady Steady fees, steady funds steady money. Oh, okay. Well, regardless of that, remember, Apple Card is good for your wallet. It's designed to support your financial well-being. It's a no-fee credit card that lets you track your spending on your iPhone. Plus, you can get unlimited daily cash back on every purchase, stress less about money, and focus more on enjoying life.

2:30:12Apply for Apple Card in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.49 % to 27.74 % based on credit worthiness. Rates as of January 1, 2026. Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet app or card.apple.com. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackl. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.

2:30:57Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?

2:31:19Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest of the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love, like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other?

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