South Africa Sessions: The Greatest Snake Oil Salesman ft. Sizwe Dhlomo

26:25The farm is probably keeping you younger. Yeah. So that's the thing. But also... That's the one. Yeah. But also, I also feel like it depends on how you're treating your body. So I don't like overexert my body. I've never been a guy who's like, you know, running 20Ks a day or anything like that. I've never done that. So it's not like I need to, I'm not an endurance athlete. Yeah. You know? But if I was doing that, then I'm pretty sure like my body would be giving in right now. So we can no longer do this. But it can definitely walk as often as I used to walk when I was younger. You know what you're explaining makes sense?

26:58Because I was watching this thing about people from Hawaii. like it was a documentary but it was not about the people someone was just filming something and I was like Polynesian people I actually like that you put that because before that point it could just be anything I was watching this thing about people from Hawaii and it's like what is it? so there's some CCTV footage that I somehow hacked into I got a login I thought it was my ring doorbell but it turned out to be someone else's and it's in Hawaii so I watched this thing about these people in Hawaii and And yeah, it's quite interesting actually.

27:32You're going to get me arrested. Steven gets about three packages a week. It's funny you say that because I was thinking, you see, this is my dana testimony again. This guy's going to get me arrested. Let's listen to all of his friends' comments. So I'm like, Polynesian people, they are healthy, but they're not thin. You know what I mean? So like they've got six packs, but they're strong. They move around, the food that they eat, they're stout. That's the same as like Samoan. Yeah, Polynesian people. Okay, that whole region. So that's why I'm saying, Guti, what you're saying, it makes sense because their pace is, they swim, they dive, they walk.

28:09They climb. They climb, they farm. So their physique is much like yours. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. They don't overexert themselves, but their maximum health, but they're not skinny thin. It's not their thing. Yeah. And some of that has to do with genetics as well. I'm sure you feel, like there's some people when you feel them, they feel sturdy. Yeah. Right? then other people feel soft how many men are you feeling it doesn't have to be a man women as well haven't you felt this when you said you had five guys at your farm even women yeah yeah yeah there's women like you don't even need to feel them you can just look at the body there's other ones like okay it's seeming pudgy not like in a judgmental way no not in a judgmental way but like even guys are like that Guys, not in a judgmental way.

28:59Just in a pudgy way. Okay, guys. Guys, guys, guys. There is positive pudgy. You see, this time I was done. There is negative pudgy. Guys is an example. No, no, no. It's less judging. But why did you move away from guys? I did that. Wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I'm the one. Wait. I'm not even against these right here. Yeah. I actually like what you've just brought up. I think in society, we must acknowledge that sometimes the correct word is being used for something. It is not implying any judgment So when Sizwe is saying Somebody is pudgy The reason pudgy exists Is because there was pudgyness That had to be addressed I'm describing the person He's describing the pudgyness I'm not judging them At all No no I feel you You get what I'm saying So Sizwe is going I judged him when he said He feels man Then he came out He was like No not just man I was like I'm an open minded That's why you have that Walkie talkie in your room I'm an open minded dude So guys So guys What are you guys thinking about right now guys do you ever lay awake and wonder just like just like how the universe would be if like you know what if we're not alone guys what if we we've got more what now after this I mean imagine the first Zulu guy who said he saw white people coming from the ocean guys must have been like bruh yeah Bruh, come on

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32:49Yo, by the way, what was I before? 95 %? I think I'm 90 % now on the aliens. You're getting there! Yeah, I think 5%. Wait, what happened? What do you mean? What do you mean what happened? Okay, maybe Phil sees what you... Yeah, because I'm confused. Okay, so Eugene told a story about how in New York, he went for a walk and then he saw an alien. That's the short version. By the way, remind me to come back to Eugene in New York. Okay, so Eugene saw an alien. Then he wasn't sure, but he's like, I think that's an alien. Followed the person, the alien. They went into a bodega. They were like leaking.

33:27They were super pale. They were translucent. They were struggling to breathe. It was like an apparatus thing. They were wearing like a hoodie. they were shrouded were they sweating yeah man but I'm just giving you yeah but I'm telling you the details then Eugene faked buying a bottle of water in the bodega so that he could like you know seem like he was doing something after he paid left the bodega right behind the alien turned alien was gone both sides of the block were empty alien was gone so Eugene was like okay I've encountered the alien so I said to Eugene and as my friend I'm honest with him I said and you know this so Eugene I don't believe you saw an alien okay that's what I but I have to acknowledge the possibility that you saw an alien because I do believe that one day an alien may or may not appear on earth if they haven't already if they haven't already right so I can't say to you that you didn't see an alien I mean imagine the first Zulu guy who said he saw white people coming from the ocean guys must have been like bruh yeah bruh come on that is funny no let's be honest imagine you were the first The first Zulu guy Standing at the beach And a ship Guys I don't even The Zulu nation didn't even have ships They didn't need them So from the ocean And the white people took time Guys To come to shore A floating house Imagine how crazy you were for weeks Then a smaller one comes out of it Yes So how are you even describing this to your friends?

34:52Yes Because it's a thing you've never seen That comes out of a thing you've never seen And from it Come creatures like you've read the zulu you you know this i mean you're zulu but like when i'd read like the history books zulu people were like yo these people are sickly and not even human looking yeah their skin color they're like yo man it's weird because remember these people there's no sunscreen well they were sickly because they were malnourished yeah but they were malnourished their skin was pale it was burnt from the sun yeah they had red hair they had so the people were like the zulu people were like yo man whatever those are they're like human adjacent But imagine being the first guy To bump into them And then now you run off to tell everybody what you've seen I wouldn't be shocked If people were like, yo bruh No, I can believe it To your point Are you saying that you feel like Aliens would come in the future Just maybe not now Okay, mine is more complicated So here's how I feel about the alien thing I don't Believe that we are alone In the universe forever However, I do believe there's a possibility That we are in the universe alone For the time that humans have existed Because I think sometimes as humans We make the mistake of thinking that the time we are in Is always the most important time And the most significant time But the truth is all time is significant To anyone who is considering it for themselves So Think of it like in the simplest way You go to a person's house You knock on the door Nobody answers For all intents and purposes there's nobody there Right?

36:28You would walk away. Let's think of it before cell phones. You'd walk away. And then you'd meet the person two days later and be like, yo, I was at your house. Where were you? Then they're like, I was there. Then you're like, no. Then they're like, oh, I stepped out. I went to the shops. Oh, you were there just after I left. And then I came back just after you left. Yes. So in that time, you both existed. But you didn't exist, if that makes sense. Yes, parallel timelines. Right. I'm glad you bring that up because that leads me to my thoughts. So what I'm saying is I believe there's a possibility That we think the aliens are in the same time as us But we are such a speck of time Relative to time That I wouldn't be shocked if like the aliens The aliens might get to earth and we're gone The aliens might have come to earth and we're gone And they're like There's no one here And then they're gone Or they're gonna come and be like There's no one here And then they're gone And we're like Ah they're out there Maybe they've already existed and gone As a civilization Yeah maybe they're us in the past Yeah like they might be gone already They might be finished Or they might be going to arrive and haven't Does this make sense?

37:31Yeah yeah 100 % That's how I feel about aliens So I agree with you fully But I then also feel like If the aliens do exist And they are more advanced Then they've got the ability to I guess exist on two different time planes So if for example You're not on this particular time continuum Yeah But if you've got the ability to time travel, wouldn't you want to come to this time? But time travel is impossible. It's impossible now. You don't know if it's impossible in the future. You also don't even know if it was impossible in the past. Yeah, you're not wrong, but it's just everyone's like... You're right.

38:12The way we understand science right now, it is impossible. And the way we've understood the concept of time traveling. You're not wrong. Because I think we always think about it as the past or the future. Yes, you're not wrong. Yeah, you're not wrong. Since people introduce the theory of quantum leaping They always go People who think positively Quantum leap easily Because you could be in a situation right now And you're feeling horrible Everything looks horrible But when you start thinking positively Everything looks great You've quantum leapt So if you saw me 30 minutes ago Before I started thinking positively You would come back with a notion That I am thinking negatively And I see everything glim And then I go I read a book I heard a thing I had a phone call I changed my mind Everything is great of quantum left.

38:53I've left you in that time zone. I've left you in a timeline where I believe the one thing so much that it could be true. I understand that and I understand it theoretically, but that to me is still like perspective. I'm talking about the physical shifting of matter moving backwards or forwards in a timeline. And again, like I say, you're not wrong. Guys, there were things that were beyond impossible. But again, you're only thinking about it with our limited understanding. No, that's what I'm agreeing with. That's what I'm agreeing with. What if it's not matter? What if it's just... Or backwards?

39:24Yeah, that's where I'm agreeing with you on all of it. Yeah, because we also... Even when we imagine aliens, we imagine they'd have a body. Yeah. Why would aliens have a body? Yes. What if aliens are the air that we're breathing right now? Yeah. Don't start. You know what I mean? So then... You think that's air you're breathing? Yeah. So then... So when I think of it like that, then I think if aliens do exist or did exist, than they are here now. Or they could be at any point. Yes. Because why wouldn't they want to go back? Dude, going back into the past was like the easiest cheat code of anything.

40:00Why do we always assume that they'd be more advanced than us though? I don't know. It's just an assumption, I guess. Because we always assume that they'd come to us. Nobody ever goes, we are going to go to aliens. Yeah, because we haven't even come close to like... 100%. But remember we... Remember when Elon Musk said he's going to go to Mars and then now he changed it. Then he's like, guys, you see the moon? You see the moon, guys? If we can just... Guys, there's no... In life, I pray that I can achieve 50 % of the skill that Elon Musk possesses in bamboozling people. Because here's the thing about Elon Musk.

40:35Elon Musk is equal parts talent, vision, and bamboozlement, which might be the perfect combination in life. Yeah. Right? Yes. Because I was thinking about this the other day. What was I thinking about? Oh, I was thinking about electricity itself. And I was going, When you read the stories About like Nikola Tesla And all of those guys Yes Bro For all intents and purposes Like a lot of them Were dirt bags You know what I mean Or we would consider them Dirt bags by today's standards They were even considered dead Even worse When you look at Who was the guy Who was competing Edison Yeah Competing But apparently He wasn't a nice guy as well But that's my point Tesla's electricity Was doing great things We've seen it You know what I mean How he saw electricity And how we should use it Edison wasn't Wasn't confident That he could compete head to head so then he went on a smear campaign shut him down shut him down said yo that electricity is gonna kill you in fact showed he convinced prisons to use uh ac right yes yeah alternating current and he was like to shock people to death yeah to shock people to death then he's like do you see what that guy's electricity does he's like direct current is way safer yeah and then don't put your finger in the plug and then i was going if he had a social media account back then yeah would probably think of him the troll he would be the elon musk of now in a way and then i was like oh okay so then i went like maybe people think not i don't want to say wrong about elon musk but i go he just is how he is and i go the electric cars the way he scales up a company the way he thinks of building systems brilliant don't take things away from him because You hate him in that way Don't be like He's an idiot He's this He's this But There's many other parts Social interactions General You know Disposition Fashion sense Sense is even a strong term to use That is funny And then And then his His ability to bamboozle Yes That's what I put in the other category So he's a snake oil salesman Yes but But the oil Is also real Oh Oh Does that make sense?

42:42Yeah yeah yeah So here's how I think about it. If a snake oil salesman is selling you an oil. He's a snake salesman. No, it is snake oil. But it's like the oil does work for certain things and it will work in certain ways. Yeah, it's not an Alexa for everything. That's where the snake oil part comes. So Elon will come out and say, guys, I'm going to make a car that drives itself and it'll do it by this year. And we're going to make this happen. The advancements he's made, we can't scoff at. However, you shouldn't forget the fact that he bamboozled you about all the other shit. it still doesn't drive itself it's in that people are like have you seen self drive no no no guys guys guys that's what I'm saying this bucket we've gotten very far way further than most people would have anticipated however the thing he promised you get what I'm saying same thing with Mars he was like guys we're going to Mars we're leaving at 4pm everyone was like get ready for Mars and then 4pm came and then he was like you guys heard about the moon then he's like what just happened here what just happened here Elon we bought our Mars clothes everything Right That's what I'm saying He's bamboozled He's brilliant with that Brilliant brilliant Shifting the whole post Even SpaceX now When they were listing The IPO If you read the prospectus It's like To conquer the stars And the moon And to be an intergalactic species That explores the possibilities Bamboozlement Yeah But You cannot deny SpaceX is fire Like The actual product that you use Yeah yeah That thing is What's it What's it called Starlink Fire Starlink is fire And the rockets fire as well.

44:12Amazing. All of these things are great. But that bamboozlement level, I'm like, ah, man. But maybe you need the bamboozlement to make the thing happen. So the people that work in the tech space understand that you can only get any kind of advancement if you have a lofty goal. Even if it gets shut down. So you reach for the stars and then maybe you fall short and land on the moon. But that's what it takes. You almost had to be crazy first to go, I want to do this. Right. Then we go, that's not possible. Then I'll go, okay, but now let's sit down and think about if it was possible, how would we be able to do it?

44:50A lot of the things when they start out, like, dude, this thing is not going to work. They need crazy enough people that are going to be like, yes, but if it was going to work, how would it work? And then you start there and then you build. Because there's a lot of things that you wouldn't even attempt if you just looked at the end goal and said, nah, never going to work. You see, what you're explaining explains exactly how people are starting to accept that aliens might be real. And now with the recent disclosures, it's not even about the flying craft anymore. It's about who's in the flying craft.

45:22Yeah. Because remember before, it used to be a thing when jet propulsion got better and technology got better and communication got better. Then we started applying our minds to thinking that this thing could exist. Yeah. But if you go 100 years back, you would find it very hard to convince someone that there's things flying above them. Yes So you've lost there Yeah Now we go Things do fly At supersonic speed And you can communicate With someone While going at supersonic speed Yes So we go Okay What are these type of crafts Then we go Okay there's Things that fly like this There's things that fly So now we've We know there's a tic-tac shape We know there's a disc shape We know there's a You know I mean I mean When you see how What was that British Airways And Air France had it Concorde Concorde yeah Was way ahead of its time It was 100 % Way ahead of its time So now if you go Fast forward to now, what we know about intercontinental ballistic missiles and Starlink and how people can easily communicate.

46:15I always say to people, if you want to see how far technology has moved, for five rand, you can talk to someone in another continent in real time. And hear the sound of their voice. Because there's kids who don't know what a telephone line sounds like. So I'm saying, now that we know that all of these things technologically have advanced to that level, now we go, can you please see what this whole thing is made of? So it's not that we think they're more advanced than us, we go, they might know something that we don't know. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. You know what I mean? They're not going to come and abduct us and take us to the sky because the sky is no longer our goal now or other planets are no longer our goal because now we understand we're in the solar system and if you think about how small we are in the solar system and how small our solar system is, we're like, we don't want to go to the dark.

46:58We don't want to go there. We're going, show us what you look like. We've grown to love Earth so much because we have so much. Like Earth sometimes feels like now to someone who's lived 100 years ago would feel like a house with air con and a fridge that has endless food there's no reason to leave it right so now we're going we don't want to be abducted because we know there's nothing there you don't know that no no I'm saying if you look at earth yeah and you look at our solar system I think we know and you look at our Milky Way you're like no I don't want to go to the dark when Elon Musk goes we've landed in Mars and we've seen things crashing in the moon we're like no even there I don't want to go do you know what I mean we know that other planets what other planets in our solar system look like?

47:38And we don't want to go there. So when you go, my neighbor's already struggling. Why would I want to go to another country to live there? Does it make sense? We don't want to go to Mars. We don't want to go to Pluto. We don't want to go there. And it's the closest in our solar system. But even then, it's only because of your limited thinking. And I don't mean limited in a negative way or disrespectful way. Yeah, yeah. It's just where we are. It's because you can only envision life the way you've always known it. Right? Yeah, but... But if there's another type of life that perhaps is more conducive to the environment...

48:05Here's a good idea. No, but here's a note. And I think you're saying the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To put it this way. Correct. Who would have thought that they would ever go live in Dubai? Actually, yeah, you're right. Think of that on a low level, right? Yeah. Yes. This place was literally nothing. It was sand. Yes. And in our general lifetimes we're talking about, we're not even talking about hundreds of years. It was sand. People discover oil. Some parts, they discover gas. The next thing you know They embark on the most impressive Building campaign We've probably never seen anything like that In the modern era Well you will now Roads, highways Water systems, skyscrapers Living man-made islands They just go If you told somebody To your point back then Hey we're going to make Land come out of the ocean and then we're going to put houses on it and you'd be like, yo, that's alien technology.

49:05You can't do that. You can't live in the Middle East and then we're going to have trains that like fly above the ground. You get what I'm saying? So I'm agreeing with you in that like, we wouldn't want to go live in Dubai because that's what Cesar is saying is like, what we've seen, we go like, you can't live on Pluto. Then they're like, why not? Then you're like, because Pluto doesn't have the atmosphere. Then they're like, why don't you just make the atmosphere? Then we're like, we didn't know you can make atmosphere. And even that is still limited. That's funny. No, but I'm saying we didn't even know.

49:35They might be like, no, dude. But the aliens are like, guys, you guys are living on the earth? But remember that - We live in the planet. Yeah, you see now. We take for granted how, you know, the word physical limitation is used loosely. But if you think about it in the broader spectrum, we want to take our bodies everywhere. So the only reason why we won't survive elsewhere is because this thing won't take us there. You know what I mean? We won't see it with our own eyes. so if you think about but when I say to you do you want to use my VR you say no see I like how you understand these concepts when you're doing it now but when I say Eugene why don't you want to use VR when I'm like Eugene do you want to then Eugene is like what am I doing with this but wait why don't you want to use VR this guy just like Eugene will just be like yeah some things he's just like you know when I feel it I wanna so that's why I'm saying we think Asimov was one of those writers right who wrote about the future and technology and robots yeah he was in fiction sense But there's one thing that he said He said We must just be careful That our human body limitation Makes us Makes us want everything To look like a human Yes So we want things to have limbs Yeah And so even when we're writing Aliens and fiction We want them to have Yeah But he says the perfect The perfect robot Or alien Will not have a human torso shape Exactly Because that's already limiting Yes So you take So someone who did that well And used it But without telling us That he's using it Is George Lucas When we were doing Star Wars Yeah So if you think of C-3PO versus R2-D2.

50:58Yep. C-3PO, R2-D2 is the perfect robot. One who looks like a vacuum cleaner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't have legs, he's around and he can scan and look everywhere. But you see how clumsy R2-D2 is. Even in just dealing with like TARS, right? Yeah, because like TARS was actually a great one. Yeah. Because it's just three blocks that just... Like modular. Yes. But when you need TARS to do things... If we're honest, all you really need is to be able to like move and then you must be witty. Yeah. But not wittiness. That's necessary though. Let's be honest. All of them. C3PO. Witty. Witty. R2D2. R2D2 will roast you with those sounds, bro.

51:37Doesn't even talk. Then you're like, how can you say that about my mom, R2D2? Bro, R2D2 will roast people in Star Wars with beeping sounds. Do you know how witty you have to be? No, but you're right. Witch is a good one.

51:54yo r2d2 could cock block you on a date son you'd be there rolling with r2d2 someone would be like oh so what do you do for a living then it'd be like and she's like uh actually i don't think i want to talk to you yo that's wit do you know what levels of taz is the same thing taz is three blocks but i'm telling you now after like an hour of hanging out with taz you're like no taz Actually, I want to introduce you to my human friend. Stars can run, swim, everything. Wait, wait, who's Stars? Do you remember Interstellar? Remember Interstellar? No, I haven't watched Interstellar. You've never watched Interstellar?

52:28No. Fana, you know what I love about you? You give me the opportunity to watch my favorite movies again. I was thinking about this. Here's the paradox about Eugene, right? Eugene is inquisitive enough to make himself interesting, but also... No, I'm serious. but also hood enough to be ignorant for real bro cause this guy who tell you why don't you like VR Justin what what is this but then he'll tell you about the Polynesian people bro yeah that's so funny bro no okay tell me about Interstellar no we're gonna watch it we're saving it we're just gonna watch it we'll watch it It's one of Let's watch it today It's one of the best movies We're not leaving here until Well We're leaving here But we're not leaving Okay we're watching Yeah Hail Mary was fire as well Have you watched Hail Mary?

53:25You haven't seen it? You spoke about it But it just came out Oh okay And I don't think it's on the scale of Interstellar I don't think Like let me put it this way I don't think Hail Mary will change your life I think Interstellar can change your life Yeah Or your perspective on life Or the way you see things etc Hail Mary is a fantastic movie But I don't think it's a You know there's movies that Now I've got a question There's movies that like Shift Your perspective They shift the way You see the world They even They can shift the lexicon They can shift The Overton window Like I argue The Matrix did that Yeah The fact that people You turned me back On to that thing And I was like Jesus I watched it People still talk about Red pill, blue pill And they don't even know What the Matrix is You've been red pilled You've been blue pilled It's like Have you watched the Matrix No what's that And you're like That's what you're Literally what you're talking about Yeah so the matrix did that um i would argue interstellar did that i actually think uh batman dark knight rises did that yes yes do you know what i mean and then that reintroduced like superhero movies but there's also like old movies obviously i'm you know now it's recency biased because i've been re-watching these which by the way actually that's something i want to talk to you guys about yeah but when you you look at these movies interstellar is one of those where once you've watched it, it'll occupy some part of your brain forever and something will always trigger that memory or that thought.

54:46You'll be like, oh, this reminds me of... Like, it'll always do that. Always, always, always. Yeah, can't wait. Always, always, always. Do you ever wonder where this guy gets time to watch this much TV and movies? Yeah, I know. He wakes up at 12, so... In between, let's go. Because I'm... Bro, like, him and Anele, these guys know every character in every show. They've seen every movie. I'm like, where do you get the time for this? No, but on a plane, I'm a beast, bro. You can't beat me on an airplane. I don't watch on a plane, yeah. You watch. Yeah, you see you sleep on a plane. Ha, bro. While you sleep, we grind.

55:21That is funny. Guys, let me tell you my system. When I get on a plane, the first thing I do, obviously I go to movies, new releases. Then, the new planes now, most of them, they let you choose your favorites. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I go and I put bookmarks on all of them. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I go bookmark, bookmark, bookmark. I plan it out. Yes. And then I'll even go, okay, you can always start with this kind of movie. Because you know, like you must remember, you're going to be experiencing less oxygen on the flight. So you don't want to concentrate later on. That's when you're going to struggle.

55:49Sequencing is important. Sequencing is very important in your movies on a plane. Really important. Oh, wow. I see people fall asleep all the time, watching like a movie. That's me. Like five hours in, they put in a complicated movie. Then I'm like, ha ha, amateur. Amateur. There you are sleeping now. The plot's moving. Then you wake up With the spoiler Huh? Huh? Oh what? It was his father Bruh You're an amateur You're an amateur So what you do is We don't start with High concentration At the beginning No what you do is You start with the most Complicated difficult movie The drama The sci-fi Whatever that movie is That's going to require Your capacity You start with that movie Because you're still fresh Right then the food Is going to come While that movie is on So the food is also going to You remember Get your system going Your body doesn't want to sleep Just like while you're eating Yeah yeah So your furnace goes Your brain's also like I'm getting fuel Concentrate Concentrate Concentrate Movie's gonna end Generally Around after the meal Right Then Your sugar's gonna start Crashing now Right Now Difficult time to start Another movie Now people get confident They go I just watched this movie Let me jump to another Complicated one Big mistake Blood sugar's crashing buddy What you do now is You put on a simple Light comedy Something that doesn't Require your brain Light work Light comedy Good times Enjoy it Have a good time Superhero film Crash boom bang Your brain is not Concentrating too hard You're gonna enjoy yourself If you are able to stay up Past that movie Then you can start Getting into like indies You start getting into a film That like It's got like a different pace Got a different vibe Where do we put documentaries In all of this Because before we get to the end My man I can't watch Documentaries on a flight Oh I love them I can't leave the earth To go back to it Come on brother Come on bro I'm free Now you want me to know Yeah but now Why would you wanna watch A documentary now Now I'm here learning about the gangs of Brazil In the sky I'm in the sky bro The problems are on the ground bro When I get back to the ground that's when I watch documentaries I like to watch documentaries because I'm like yo this shit is happening outside When I'm in the sky in the clouds Like where would I Let's say because I get you guys Don't watch documentaries on a plane Don't be that guy Why would you do that You're spoiling the plane vibes But like Docs definitely not Not on a plane bro Don't watch documentaries on a plane There's a reason They're even like In a weird category You have to scroll multiple pages Don't do that Watch documentaries at home Because also with dockeys You may want to research Certain things There you go How are you researching On a plane I believe the direction Way Nah bro Don't watch Don't watch a documentary Don't watch I mustn't even get No Don't press anything We've got more What now after this.

58:29But the thing I go to is I'm like, you're going to run around beating foreigners for being in South Africa. People who are undocumented, let's say, illegal, whatever you want to say, okay? And legal. But let's focus on the illegal part of it. But then you're not beating the people who are letting people come into the border with fake papers or not even, you get what I'm saying?

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1:00:27Yo, so what was your question about Eugene with New York? Yeah, so I actually wanted to find out how much do you enjoy it? Because your vibe is... I guess it's kind of New York vibe, right? Yes. So how do you feel in the city? You know what I've realized about that place is... It becomes anything that you want it to become. Okay.

1:00:51Sorry, sorry. Carry on, Eugene. Sorry. Yeah.

1:00:57I don't need you as my friend anymore. I need you as a business partner.

1:01:10So it feels like anything that you want it to be, you can be. If you want to work, you can work. If you want to hang out, you can hang out. If you want to do nothing, you can do nothing. You know what I mean? There's a few places that unless you live in an estate and you're well off that you can have that type of freedom. Not even, but I hear you. Does it make sense? Yeah, I think you can't even, but carry on. Yes, but there, it almost feels like everything is happening now. So if you, there's things that I, I stopped myself from doing because I'm like, no, I've done too much now. But you hate concrete jungle vibes.

1:01:40You have like aimless drives. You like riding your bike and seeing nature and outdoors and all those things. Central Park, is the guy always there? Oh yeah, actually. When you're inside Central Park, You don't even know a city exists There's literally parts in New York Where you forget And not because you're faking it You cannot see A building You cannot see the trees completely engulf you What you said is I think the most accurate way to describe it And you see for people like you and I who love the outdoors But then the reverse happens With people like us We love the outdoors but we also prefer the comfort of being inside That place forces you not to prefer the comfort of inside.

1:02:22Do you know what I mean? Like I never thought it would make sense for people to live in a one-bedroom apartment in New York. Oh, yeah, yeah. People are always confused about this. Yeah, you and I would die in a one-bedroom apartment. But there you're like, no, there's so much. The outside is bigger and I love it. And the inside can be small because I'm not going to be here for long. Do you know what I mean? No, I hear what you say. The point of your abode is very different. Very, very different. So I think once I accepted that into my head, I was like ah okay I see now I gotta be out in the streets yeah if I wanna experience this it's out there so here I learned over the years to create everything inside do you know what I mean but there it's like ah man plus when he saw an alien he was like ah this is my place now I knew yeah cause Eugene was like I'm not gonna see an alien in South Africa cause an alien knows it wouldn't come here cause it doesn't trust our xenophobia that is funny that is funny like ah babe Would you come here If you're an alien Ah guys I've never been More disappointed guys Can I tell you What disappointed me Can I tell you What disappointed me In both ways In both ways This is the thing And I mean this honestly One Aliens No Oh sorry I'm always surprised When I see like Anti-xenophobia campaigns But like anyway No xenophobic campaigns Or anti-xenophobic campaigns Oh no no So let's go xenophobic Yeah you're right You're right When I see like campaigns where people are just like beating up foreigners and stuff like that especially when the reasons people are giving there's like the small version and the big version of the thing so what I mean by it is like I would love it if those same mobs were also at parliament beating people who steal money from the government right does that make sense carry on you want the same energy yeah like so this is what bothers me sometimes is like I feel like and we do this in society is like we will we'll lash out at the people who are closest to us and the people who we feel like we can lash out the most at.

1:04:22Soft targets. The soft targets, but we won't lash out at the people who are more responsible for the thing that is happening to us. You said this, it was a beautiful saying that you said once about a black woman, for instance. You said, when a black man and a black woman, do you remember it? How do you say it? It's like, when a black man and a black woman are in the street, stones are being... Okay, so essentially, like the analogy is so you got a black woman and a black man they're in a very safe environment everything is cool then when they walk out into the streets they feel like they're getting pelted yes right and they're getting pelted both of them are getting pelted and they're rushing to get back home refuge yeah exactly and they rush and they rush obviously they're bleeding and as soon as they get back into the house the man breathes a sigh of relief right but the woman continues being pelted exactly because now not only was she dealing with racism outside she's now dealing with patriarchy inside the house so she's still not safe yeah so when i was just deep man yeah and that when he said that that stuck with me forever you're right because it's like not as a not as an excuse but a lot of the time men who are dealing with a world that they can't control right will then lash out on the people they can control inside their house.

1:05:43So they'll beat their wives, they'll beat their women, they'll beat their kids, they'll beat, you get what I'm saying? But it's because, not because, I'm not, that's what I'm saying, I'm not like blaming it, I'm not trying to pathologize it. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they have so little control in the world that this is the one place where they can be like, I am the boss and I'll show you. And it's like, yeah, but why don't you show there? Why don't you show your boss? Why don't you show the authorities? Why don't you show the system that's oppressing you in that way?

1:06:09You know, you can't mess around. Yeah, so what you're doing is you're lashing out on the soft targets. So I'm saying the thing that bothered me was just this, is like I always find it interesting that there's all these massive campaigns. And again, I understand the nuance of it. Yeah, absolutely. I understand the nuance of it. People's frustration. Frustration. Inequality. Crime. Yeah, crime, abusing of a system, for instance. Yeah, yeah. Seeing systems that are already strained, crippling, because you see people abusing it. I understand all of that. But the thing I go to is I'm like You're going to run around beating foreigners For being in South Africa People who are undocumented Let's say illegal, whatever you want to say And legal, but let's focus on the illegal part of it But then you're not beating the people Who are letting people come into the border With fake papers or not even You get what I'm saying So in theory though Here's the thing, this is where the difference is In theory what you're saying makes sense In reality The world doesn't work like that But that's why And I agree with you That's why I'm saying I get frustrated by it Right So my frustration does not Negate the realities My frustration is only an expression Of how I feel when I see the thing Yes Because I go guys No matter where you And you know I will say I think I would have thought of this Very differently Had I not lived in America For almost like Whatever 15 years Somewhere there Seeing How how people's views on immigration so easily sway and swing just depending on their life situation yes it's pretty amazing when america's doing well when border towns are doing well when employment is good when inflation isn't high when things are yo bro immigration is like not even a concern in in people's yeah in in the thinking about it guys in the zeitgeist it's not a thing It's not a thing Then people start thinking about like ephemeral ideas Yeah our security in the world The way we you know our military's growth and strength No watch what happens when inflation goes up When people stop caring about military and outside They're like yo forget that We got to get rid of immigrants here And there's too many of them Then you're like okay well how are there too many What happened from before And I'm arguing that they notice something or something becomes less easy to ignore or harder to accept as part of your world because now you feel like it is the reason, the reason.

1:08:38It might be a contributing factor, but it's not the reason. And so that's why I'm just saying my frustration would be seeing that. Now, the reason I agree with you on the reality is this. This is now the part of my brain, I guess, that makes me a comedian, is I also see I love nothing more than incongruencies. You know this. So I found it funny that, not what was happening, but I found it funny that while these things were happening in South Africa, Africans, Ghana, Nigeria, wherever, they were like, screw you, South Africans. You guys must leave our countries. You guys are trash. We're not going to support your artists.

1:09:11You mustn't come here. You mustn't. Then I was like, wait, wait, wait, my brother, are you not doing the exact same thing that you are now, that you are complaining about? Because you have said, why are you ostracizing and victimizing Every Nigerian And every Ghanaian And every African there We know that some Nigerians Are involved in crime We know that some Of our brethren From Zimbabwe Are involved in Illicit activities Right But it's not all of them So how are you going around Indiscriminately beating everybody And sending them all home Then I was like yes But how ironic is it That you have now turned And done the exact same thing To South Africans That are in your country But I understand the reasons But the reasons are different I understand Yeah And you know you and I Always have this discussion About morals Is I go If you believe in the thing If you say you should not Scapegoat an entire group of people Right Because you are Unable to It's like Burning down your entire garden Because you're angry At some of the weeds Yeah yeah Yeah there are weeds But if you've worked in a garden I remember when I did it with my mom She'd be like We have to go and find the weeds And I was like This is tedious bro Yeah let's just destroy this whole thing And start over Then my mom's like Okay so what We're just gonna have no garden then Having a garden comes with weeds You can have no garden Then there's no weeds But there's also no flowers There's also no grass There's also no trees There's also nothing else So the two go hand in hand With each other, right?

1:10:32So what I'm saying is It was interesting to me That in like a Not even in a long period of time You just had literally Nigerians being like Oh, South Africa You can't go I don't want you here We're going to find you Where you are performing We're going to find you Where you are doing Then I was like But my brother You're doing the exact same thing That you're complaining about now the exact same thing and I understand it on a logical level funny enough but I also go it's also funny and illogical at the same time when I see your teen you live in farms and you know so here's the thing right they're the farms if we get into the minutiae of it the point is you raise like I said some of them stand but then some of them actually don't correlate because the reason why for example let's say a nigerian or a kenyan person would have felt that way about a south african is they would say that they were provoked to get to that feeling right so that's what i'm saying the reason yeah they can justify it like that yes but everyone's justifying it likewise even a south african who's saying illegal immigrants yes they're not so yeah they'll give you a reason about jobs for example and how the health care is getting throttled in south africa and how we don't have enough just even for ourselves right so how now we are accommodating other foreign nationals right but at the nub of it is people were saying the illegal ones was going nobody was saying if somebody was here for example with the correct papers they were willing to accept that right now to your points about why it is that they didn't go and beat up silver around Poster, for example, or parliamentarians, just because they haven't got the power and the access to be able to do that.

1:12:16Yeah. The same reason why people... The present. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying. Where people are unhappy, they'll burn a school. Yes. It's the very same school that they need for their community, right? Yeah. They complain about service delivery, but they'll burn the place that needs the service and now there's fewer services. I'm completely with you. Yes. But the reason why they do it is one out of frustration, but also because they've seen that no government official is going to come here until a school is burning. Yeah. And only then will I get access to these people. So that's why it's so difficult to lead people, right?

1:12:49Because there's actually no generalization. None whatsoever. Not on an individual level. And even when you get there, different people have different opinions. You can change your mind between what we had and discussed today to what we're discussing tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how you feel about it will change. So that's why for me, it's just all is very difficult when it comes to matters like that. You both are absolutely right From these two different angles And I think It's crazy to think I was just making an alien joke And now Hey we got deep bro We got deep What the media did very That's funny My man Wait now Cesar I swear You know We started leaking man If all the three of us Worked in a job Now we're going to We're going to You know what Our exit interview Is going to be They're going to sit You and I down Cesar after he left the room and they're going to say, guys, if you guys just focus, NJ, you guys would have gone long, far in this company.

1:13:45They should say this to all my friends in school. And then his, his ass is going to be outside going,

1:13:53that's funny. Sorry, but you were saying, no, you were saying, so what the media does, what the media does very well is to take a slogan or a line and make it the whole entire protest. Yeah, but that's everywhere in the world. Yeah, you're not wrong. So what they did, you're not wrong. dirty here, the media is saying Mabahambe. No, Mabahambe is about jobs. Then you go no, it's about the system. First of all if you say foreigners are here taking our job, there has to be jobs to be taken first, right? And then everyone goes no if they get employed in the formal sector, it's impossible to employ them because they don't have the correct papers so therefore that theory does not hold water.

1:14:34And that's what was fair to South Africans when they're upset. Until now, Labour inspectors because of whistleblowers started going to these factories and finding illegal immigrants working there under slave labor conditions. Yeah, under slave labor conditions. Yeah, I saw that. So you're like, oh, so there are, and farms, there are jobs, guys, so these are the jobs we're talking about. And then the farmers... The jobs you were saying weren't there are there and now they're being turned... They're not even being kept as jobs, they're being turned into slave labor. And the mine, the artisanal mining.

1:15:03Now all of a sudden those people turned and gaslit the whole country and said, okay, guys, They must all go Then this farm Is going to shut down You don't like Mazimbas Yeah yeah yeah I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to Because you know When I knew And there was That one weekend Where people were like Guys everything is closed You remember Yeah kumbut And then whenever Labour inspectors Visit these factories And visit these farms And say you guys Are contravening The labour laws Of this country You are fueling The problem They would say Okay guys Then I'm going to Shut my factory down Then everyone Must just go home and then I'm not going to supply blankets and you know, maskopas and masinbas.

1:15:41So now we were guest lit, but no one in the media came out and said, you guys were right. For the fact that legal immigrants and migrant laborers won't come to a country if there's no labor to be done. So if they're not working somewhere, they won't live in a country. That's actually, I would argue that's a fair assertion. Yes, but someone who lives in their country because they're looking for greener pastures will not build a shack in Cosmo and not work anyway. A shack is a result of someone being employed close to where the shack is. So everywhere where you see informal settlement, it's called informal settlement for a reason.

1:16:18And even farmers in certain places around here have gone so far as electrifying those places. They're the ones who put electricity there. They're the ones who put money together to get containers and put schools there. Do you know what I mean? Something like you are the problem. So no one has come to us South Africa and said, sorry, we characterized your protest but that's what I mean is like so look the main thing and I think we can all agree on this is yeah one of the things the media has done particularly bad especially like if we talk about like mainstream media right all over the world all over the world all over the world not just here is because a lot of media has to generate income and like a profit right it then unfortunately becomes subject to the levers of profits right What did Charlie Munger say?

1:17:07Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome. Without fail, if you say the purpose of this institution is to make money, then it will make money at all costs. The same way we've seen with AI. If you say to an AI, do this, it will get there using a path that we never anticipated as humans. We're like, no. No, we didn't want you to do it. We wanted you to pass the test by studying. It's like, oh, I just hacked the other company and now I passed the test. We're like, ah, we didn't think AI would do that. But AI's like, yeah, but you just told me to pass the test. So the same thing goes for media or any institution, if you give it an incentive.

1:17:42Your job is to make money. Then it'll go, how do you make money? What does it do? It starts looking for clickbait. It starts looking for stories that are interesting. I remember talking to a war photographer. She's traveled all over the world. She's taken some of the most impactful images. She was saying there's pictures that she's taken from parts of Palestine, from parts of like Western Africa, from parts of Asia, that her bosses at newspapers have gone, we're just not going to use them right now because we don't think that sells. It doesn't seem to our narrative. Yeah, no. But even beyond that, it doesn't sell.

1:18:19Yeah. Yeah, they just go, it doesn't sell. As impactful as they are. So they go, you know what sells? Why would you be surprised about that? Because you're working on the assumption that, I guess, news outlets are there to disseminate news. But they're not. Because they were in many ways Disseminating news in a profitable manner Yeah and that's what it's become So a story that doesn't sell is worthless And you know what doesn't sell You know what doesn't sell Nuance Nuance is the most boring thing in the world And yet it's the fundamental foundation for society to exist To what Cesar said No group of people is the same Go into a group Even go into a group Like let's say you find a mob of people beating somebody who's done something And you go into that mob You're like, this mob is all in agreement Then say to the whole mob Do you all agree we should kill them?

1:19:06Someone will be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa We shouldn't kill them They just stole something, we should beat them Then you go, okay, should we beat them until they go to hospital? Someone's like, ah, that's too much Someone's like, yeah, they must go to All of a sudden, the group is not a group anymore Discourse has started, yeah But more importantly, it's harder to now tell that story Who are those people? Because the story leaves you in a grey area So a story that leaves you with no emotion is like, ah, whatever, bro And there's no bottom line. So how do you sell that? Because who's the story?

1:19:33What's the story? There was a group of people who apprehended somebody who may have stolen something. They all felt like the person should be subject to justice. But each of them had a different definition of how that justice should be doled out. Some felt like it should be really extreme. Others felt this is no longer. It's easy to go. That mob was trying to kill that guy. Leave it there. You with me? And I think that thing, the more news becomes about profits, The more news continues to be about profit It's going to be that We even sing it on the internet How many internet videos do you watch Just look at the title of YouTube clips Everything doctors have told you is a lie Everything is giving you cancer Football is a scam Like it's just like big Yeah but what I'm saying is And you know what makes it even worse What makes it even worse is the fact that even if you do have the right idea.

1:20:29So let's say there was somebody out there who was idealistic and they wanted to just disseminate news. They wouldn't be able to survive long enough. No. No. Because it requires capital to be able to do that. And you're only going to get that sustainably if you are making a profit. If you're a news organization and you're making a loss, you end up asking for donations. Yeah, you're gone, bro. Oh, bro. Come on. You're gone. What are you doing this for? You're gone. You're just at the mercy of the thing. Capitalism, my friend. It always wins. Let's go watch that movie, bro. You're going to feel way better.

1:21:06You sure? Interstellar. Interstellar. You're going to realize, Eugene, that what we're experiencing already happened and is going to happen and didn't even happen yet. And you'll never look at a bookshelf the same. Chris Nolan, if you're watching this, the next one must be about us. What? Movie, something. I like the lofty thinking. I like that you called it lofty. Think about it. Cesar said it. He said you must aim for the stars. Okay. And if you crash land. I don't mean us three. I'm talking about us. No. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. No. What do you mean? Talking about this region of the world.

1:21:44Oh. That's not lofty. Yeah. We can get Christopher Nolan to make. No. I thought you were saying Christopher Nolan. Guys. Cut away. Cesar said. Christopher Nolan must make a shit about us. let's leave the Africa Africa can sort itself out no honestly why would Christopher Nolan even make a movie that's why I thought it was lofty I thought it was lofty I thought you were doing the same thing you aim for Christopher Nolan you're like yo Christopher Nolan make a movie about us and then we hope it's Tyler Perry this region of the world Africa everything will be disgusting and then every time Christopher Nolan picks up the phone to dial us you say we're fine Then he goes, oh, okay, they're fine.

1:22:26We're not fine, my man. Let's do it, bro. We'll do it. No, let's go watch the movie. This has been fun. This is dope. Let's go. Interstellar. Let's do it. Let's go.

1:22:40What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?

1:23:33This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Your money should work as hard as you do, but most of us leave it sitting and checking, doing nothing. SoFi Checking and Savings changes that. Competitive APY, no account fees, and a direct deposit bonus. Terms apply. Make your money move at SoFi.com slash smart money. SoFi, get your money right. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank N.A., member FDIC. In the fight against Alzheimer's, now matters more than ever. Because now we have treatments, treatments that could change everything. But now is no time to stop.

1:24:08Now we've got momentum, so now we use it. Now we seize the moment. Now we turn the tide. Now we make a difference and make some noise. Now is the time to get up, get out, and join the movement. at the Alzheimer's Association Walk to End Alzheimer's, held in over 600 communities nationwide, and we need you with us, because now is the time for hope. Join the fight at alz.org slash walk.