Tina Friml: Living in the Bonus Round

29:58I think like fog, people treat fog like, you know, to create a feeling. It's excessive. Yeah. Fog should never be the environment. Fog should really just, you know, play a role. Yes. In the environment Yeah you want Not become the environment Yeah you want to feel You know what it is It's like When the fog is right When the smoke machine's Been used correctly You don't even realize That it was there So if someone asked you To re-describe the scene You wouldn't I don't think that's the first thing You would bring up But to your point When it's like amateur hour Right You'll go like It was really foggy And then it's like No then it was too much It's just got to give you That feeling of like You know something Yes Yeah Yeah, yeah, exactly.

30:56Just, well, I know that there was an opera that my mom and dad worked on where there were, I forget the opera. It might come to me or come to you guys. Anything is possible. I don't know how much you know about the opera. I mean, us, I mean, we are old, old hands. We don't like to brag, but. Many have called us the phantoms of opera knowledge And when it doesn't go well we become Les Miserables

31:34I believe it I'm not looking so Was that too much fog? So Too much I'll say okay Too much fog You are foggy as hell My dad worked on one with A scene of witches Around the cauldron And the cauldron was supposed to bubble And smoke up And that cauldron was almost The death of him Because it had to roll out So it couldn't be attached To anything To the smoke machine But to your point I think it was like the first time he did it, it just, like, they put way too much, the station put way too much ice in it. The dry ice, yeah. It just created this curtain of, and again, they're singing opera, they're professional opera, so they couldn't, it was just, they would breathe in.

32:46They couldn't breathe. Yeah, yeah. No, no. The witch's brew was an effect from the cauldron. So to round it back to... I feel like that was the most realistic show someone watched. Yeah. Because I don't like it sometimes when the characters doing something don't react like humans. So if I was watching an opera where witches were gathered around a cauldron, they start making something, it bubbles up. It's not just something. No, but it's not... Is it always witch's brew? It is always Oh I didn't know They don't make kombucha I didn't know It's called witch's brew for a reason You know who doesn't make witch's brew?

33:25Who? Wizards So witches make witch's brew Okay That's all they make They don't make fermented malt You're telling me everything that's in that pot is witch's brew They make witch's brew Everything in that pot Yeah Huh Okay I didn't know this And you can't take it out without a cackle Because you can't just put the witch's brew in a vessel that's part of the oh you know I've never seen brew put in a actual chalice I've seen it like don't they stir it up and then and then like in a chalice it invokes malice so it's when someone is getting poisoned who is this guy but when it's in a vial oh then it's it exposes the potency of the brew because you must get that reveal that green liquid the green yes because that's the only time you ever see what's inside the witch's brew is inside the little vial in your head you're thinking all of that cauldron for this little vial it is worth it yes the calamity that will ensue after our main character consumes it's what makes it worth it it really is kombucha yeah I mean that's that's this is amazing This must have been amazing for you as a kid though, being in that environment.

34:47Because as kids, you want to stay in a world that's as imaginary for as long as possible. And now you're in that world with your parents. What were you like as a kid?

35:02You're right. Because I was in that environment, I held on to that child. like, I wanted to say wonder, but no, delusion. Oh, I like that. Telling delusion from a lot longer than I thought, you know. And maybe that's kind of what led to the entertainment industry was, I mean, I, it was a double-edged sort because I grew up thinking much more was possible in this life for me than reality. I got this kind of very obtuse version of the world. Wait, in what way? Well, I think that mainly, I think I thought that a lot of elements of life were much more dramatically poetic than they were.

36:24in good ways and bad ways. I learned much about the world from these shows that my mom and dad would do. I remember that one time they worked on the show Chicago, and I went up to my mom asking what the word murder meant. and she went on and told me that I was where a person would kill another person. But then because my head was so in line with main character essence and I got immediately, I understood that, oh, we live in a world where people are just going out doing that. They kill other people for no reason.

37:22And it was sort of, and here's where I got weird. It was instead, normally I would maybe be freaked out by that or not want to leave the house, but I sort of, it didn't scare me as much as I thought it would. And I kind of went around sort of embracing this ominous vibe of the world. And that's why where I was... The idea that people murdered people, you were like, it made the world more interesting? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did. Well, because it just like it played into this, oh, there really are villains. Bad actors, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. It turned it into like a play now. It made it more interesting.

38:19It made it... And I think that exactly. And if it was a play, that meant everything had a purpose. Everything had a reason and a story arc. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, one of the hardest things that I had to learn was that the world had nuance. You know? We're still dealing with that today. It was. And the bad guy sometimes does come out in the end. Yeah.

39:01It did evoke this kind of fearlessness that it did have, that everything would work out. And that's why I call it a bit of a delusion, was that it, I don't know, it, I kind of thought that once things just got so bad, someone would break into song and dance and everything would just... I know what you mean. You know, and the bad guy would go away and, again, just everything would happen on paper exactly as it was meant to happen, you know? Hmm. So then how does that journey take you into stand-up? because you're in theater, or I'm assuming this. Did you go from theater to theater? Did you? Well, so I gave up on theater.

40:08I wanted to kind of naturally be an actor, but I gave up on that because I have cerebral palsy. And that was, I was never, I never felt different. I was just told I was different. You know, I found out. At what age do you remember, like at what part of your life and what age do you remember going, oh, I am different because I'm being told I'm different so much? Well, I remember that the first time I ever kind of heard about this, I was a little kid, five years old. I'm in the car at night with my family. My brother, my older brother, suddenly just chimed in like, hey, mom and dad, so why does Tina talk weird?

41:11How old was this guy? Did he have a seatbelt on? Was the central locking? He was like seven, okay? Yo, man. And that kind of, and that kind of, like, like, like, socially random way that only kids can use. That's what kills me. Seven, eight. No, you know what I love? Because you're in a car. You're a family. So it's not even like an outsider thing. Yeah. But the fact that he says it, not to you, by the way, goes like, you're not there. Yo, mom and dad. Like, He's been holding this in for so long. For seven years. Yo, mom and dad. Yo. Yo, man. Okay, I got to ask now, bro. And you know this guy.

41:49It's not like he just met you. That's what I'm saying. He's known you for seven years. That's what I'm saying. And there wasn't even talking.

42:01It just came out. Oh, man. I know. And so that coming up, girl. But then I called my mom and dad off guard. And they just, in the moment, I think they panicked and sat on. And then my dad, he said, we're not going to talk about this. Oh, damn. And that's it. Oh, shame. Yeah, yeah. And so I learned right off the bat, or I thought I had learned, that, okay, well, A, something's wrong with me, and B, it's a bad thing. It's shameful, tragic. Right, yeah, yeah. It's something that we cannot say. It cannot be accepted. Damn. But it took me a while to learn about what was wrong with me, you know, because when you're a kid, I mean, having cerebral palsy, having brain damage, how do you describe that to a kid?

43:24And in hindsight, I'm actually very thankful that my mom and dad just, I mean, their approach was just let me be a kid. Yeah, yeah. Because going forward, I learned to separate my disability from me. And even though the world does not do that, like the world just is - Conflates the two. Yeah. But back then, when I think about being disabled, I really do remember it like I was a normal kid. And then one day, it just kind of landed on me. So I'm fascinated here. There's a few things I'm trying to understand. So the one is, I have the most rudimentary understanding of cerebral palsy. But help us understand, when you say brain damage and disability, it's not an acute incident, right?

44:34Yeah. Well, with cerebral palsy, it can be caused by a lot of things, but most likely it's oxygen deprivation. Yes. So for me, I had a hard, hard birth. world. So my mom had a C-section from my brother. Again, it's my brother's fault. Had a C-section. And then when I was in labor, she was in labor with me with each other. When we were in labor. I accidentally I accidentally Did you kill me? I punched out I punched my way out Of the old C-section Wait what? Yes Yeah Yeah Instead of the Yeah But Nikki is a true C-section minimum I know It was one of two Yeah Cause yeah I picked the one that was sealed up Yeah And well, I punched out of the womb, but I did not part.

45:54I didn't alien my way out. Like I was in, I was still in her. I was just among other organs. Yeah. That's a real thing that can really happen. Damn. Wait, I didn't know that that's a concept. Then you. And then what happens? And then. And then because of that, I got deprived of oxygen, the umbilical cord. I don't know what happened if it wrapped around my neck or it got strained. But I was dead for 20 minutes. No way. And thank God. So the doctor at the time was at home. that my mom's main doctor was at his home. Oh, I thought you were saying the doctor was at home. I was like, what world are you growing up in when you're like, I was being born and the doctor was at home.

46:54And then they're like, all right, maybe we should call him now. You mean the main, her main doctor. Okay, okay. That makes more sense. But the main, I guess. The college is obstetrician. Was at home. He speeds. The cops are literally following him. And he spins And Thank God Modern medicine But like I was Clinically dead For 20 minutes What do you remember? You can't remember anything Because your life can't flash Before your eyes Because you haven't been born yet You'd be very surprised What's going to flash I wish so hard That I had the answer for you I don't remember Shit Maybe I do But I'm not going to tell you for friends.

47:44Okay? Talk to her friends. Doesn't past life regression just kind of add into our friendship past? If you want to get the full story, check out Tina's Patreon. She'll be telling you the full story on her Patreon. If you want to know what happens life after death before life, then you can check out Tina's Patreon. Here's a turn on$5 and I will tell you what happened to your bodyless soul. That is insane. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go anywhere, because we got more What Now after this. The crispy chicken crunchwrap slider that you love is back at Taco Bell. And it's back with attitude, because now you can enjoy the all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunchwrap with Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch.

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49:46Dr. Cums resuscitates you? Yes, yes. But after that, so, funny thing, when you're deprived of oxygen for that long, there's permanent damage in your brain. And so it is quite miraculous that I had all that happened to me for that long and I came out less effective than I am. Right. It's a miracle. It really is. It is quite amazing that I'm here right now doing this. And yet, I wish so much that I could have this conversation with every person that I meet on the street, but I can't. Wait, what do you mean? Because, like... They don't want to pay your Patreon. I know! I put the QR code in their face!

50:47No, but that's the thing, and I know this is a universal problem, but I'm kind of, I mean, not to build myself up here, but I'm walking around as a very un, what would the word be, against a lot. and walking around. Defiant. Defiant, yes. But the people that I meet, they see my disability and it's a problem for them. You know, it's... Their problem. It's still kind of the judgment that I receive. Wait, judgment? I wouldn't have thought judgment. I would have thought pity. but I wouldn't have thought judgment. You know, it depends on how old you are. And the situation. Wow. Yes. Yes. As a kid, it was really interesting.

51:57As a kid, it was very much pity. Yeah. Into my young adult life, it was a sort of judgment, not judging me for being disabled, but particularly here in New York, there is judgment, and again, depending on the situation, but often for being out in the world and requesting or taking a little bit longer things. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Okay. People, you know, I think people often like to box, you know, put meat in a box. and that, well, if, you know, if you are effective, then why not just go about your little life somewhere among helpers and, you know, to coexist, I think, and to actually go into spaces where I'm not always expected.

53:14I think people, they don't want to be judgmental, but they do kind of, they're caught off guard by it. And so I think they're a little bit frustrated with this coexistence of it. I think I'm guilty of that sometimes. Like I've realized there's a thing I have to, because I fly a lot, I've realized there's a thing I have to do sometimes when disembarking a plane or even when boarding it. And I had to do this the other day. I had to say, old people are old. They're not doing anything to you. I literally had to say this to myself. Yeah. Because I was frustrated. There was an old couple in front of me just like leaving the plane and I was behind them.

54:11And I was like, like in my head, I was just like, and I had a feeling almost like, why are you doing this? Like, if you're going to be old, why not just wait in the plane while everyone else? But then I was like, yo, old people are just old. They're not doing anything to you. They're not. But I do think, I appreciate that you said New York. I do think, and this is just anecdotal, that it is probably more pervasive in the bigger cities. because one of the things a big city does is it robs you of everything personal. Yeah. Right? So we crossed the road. There's 100 people, but you don't know anyone and nobody knows you.

54:53And when you're in a store, it's like, come on, come on, come on, come on. Let's just do this thing. And then there's almost like an idea that people sometimes have where they go, if you're in this coffee shop, that means - You should know what you want. Yeah, but also that means you can get here. that mean, there's like this incongruency of, if you're able enough to get here, you should be able enough to speed this up or get out of my way or, do you know what I mean? There's this thing that happens in New York. And I noticed even with cars that get stuck in New York, the difference in, let's say South Africa, I've seen now that I'm back home more often is, Here, you'll never see people pushing the car out of the way.

55:37Never, never, never, never, never. It's just not a concept. A car's stuck. Everyone will be there behind it.

55:45Driving around it, trying to... But you will never see people get out their cars and be like, all right, let's get this car off the road. We'll help you push. In South Africa, that's still a thing that you'll see. You'll still see people go like, we acknowledge that you do not wish to be stuck. we know it's irritating for us but you don't want to be stuck so we're gonna help you and the people behind you have not to do with it yeah they won't get affected if we help so i can i can but i but it's amazing to hear from the person who's going you know what i mean why am i being made the in this situation yeah it was collective forgetting on a day-to-day basis that we're all living lives on top of each other and somehow again miraculously making it all happen at once we're constantly shifting puzzle pieces um and and so when well yeah one day there's stuck car when there's, God forbid, an old person.

56:53Those ones are so fun. Few in the few these days. Old people are just dying out. There is this. I mean, they are inconveniences. They are kind of like,

57:10I'm guilty of it too. Almost like, you know, a baby on a plane. that's my example a screaming baby a baby a screaming baby no no no for Tina it's just a baby on a plane she has beef with babies on planes not if they cry Tina just sees a baby on a plane and she's like look at you you didn't even pay for your ticket you piece of shit she's gonna sit here with those chunky cute thighs looking around I had to pay and you just get to fly on this for free I try to sit on someone's lap but they don't let me fly you dumbass baby and they're like ma 'am please ma 'am please She's like, okay, okay, okay.

57:46I see like an able-bodied, healthy baby. I'm like, you goddamn motherfucker. You birth canal bitch.

58:02You Southpaw, not a bitch. Oh, goodness. You stupid air breather. And the baby looks at you and goes, are you the last air breather?

58:18Oh, man. Well, actually, ironically, babies love me. People will think that kids are freaked out by me. No, kids love me. I'm like one of them, but bigger. But babies don't yet see a difference. You know who does? Yeah. Dogs. Ha! No. Dogs. You're lying. Dogs double take. No, you're lying. Yeah, they, not with the voice, but with the way that I walk. No, you're lying. Yeah, 100%. Small dogs in particular. I think they'll, I'll be coming up behind them and often like on, often in New York, especially with those small dogs. that are city dogs and maybe a little bit more fragile

59:19they'll if they're coming in one way and I'm coming in another they will they will look up and I swear they don't want to and then they swerve they swerve around me to the floor this is the wildest thing ever I swear, I swear. And I'm so offended. You never look at the verguns.

59:51Like, oh, yeah, that's, that one's bred differently. I'm sorry, whenever I see, like, a disabled dog, like a wheelchair using dog, I wonder, like, oh, my God. Like, I wonder if they are, like, ever just, like... I wonder what that could be. What do you think it is? Wait, so when you're coming opposite directions? Yeah. And then you do the... The dog goes, huh? Well, again, because... And then there's a part where you're walking behind them. The way that I walk, you know, I'm unstable. Yeah. Which, by the way, like, I didn't know that I walked differently until the age of 25. No. Yeah. You know how I learned?

1:00:43A roast battle. I was in a roast battle. Was it in the car? I was in a roast battle with a friend of mine. With another comedian. and who is ironically now one of my best friends. And he said something like, oh, Tina's an incredible person. Is there anything she cannot do other than walk in a straight line? And it got a laugh and the comics laughed. It's a roast. Yeah, but I was caught off guard because in my head I thought, Well, that's uncharacteristic of him to use this random something not even about me. No ways. You didn't think that. So we have a friend. He's been on the podcast. His name is Joseph Opio.

1:01:50He's from Uganda. He's got a pretty thick accent. and he we've talked about this his whole life because he's the most articulate person I know his vocabulary surpasses everyone that I've ever met right but he genuinely thought for like his whole life that he like sounds like Hugh Grant when he speaks and then like one day I forget what we were having a conversation and I said to him similar to this because we used we would work at The Daily Show together And I said to him, I would go, someone said I didn't understand you or something like that. And then he said to me, he's like, oh, Trevor, can I ask you a question?

1:02:30He's like, why do you always repeat what I'm saying to people? And I said, oh, because they don't hear what you're saying. Then he's like, no, how can they not hear me? And then he said the craziest thing. He was like, I think oftentimes my command of the English language is even superior to yours. Then I was like, yes, but they can't hear what you're saying because of your accent. And he went, what accent? I said Joe You're joking right And I genuinely I thought he was like I thought it was the greatest joke ever So I laughed And then he's like No no seriously What accent I said Joe Like the all of it accent What do you mean What What do you mean what accent Like you're gonna Like a slight And then He asked people But he had this This realization you're having He had this also As like a 30 something year old man And he said He's like I'm devastated He's like I can't believe it He was on the podcast Even now, he's still, in his head, sounds like Hugh Grant using the Queen's English.

1:03:27Yeah. Well, and that's the thing. You don't know how heavy it will actually hit until you are the person. You think, like, oh, just, oh, my. Like, it's humorous to everyone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in your head, it really is a mind fuck because it kind of is what I can relate. actually, to that because when I talk, I sound normal. Like, I sound completely clear and hindered quick. I don't know what the science is behind that, but, like, that's why I say that, like, it always felt a bit like a conspiracy theory that I was, I didn't feel different. I didn't sound different, but everyone told me that I was and that I need to, like, articulate more.

1:04:33And when you actually do realize that, like, holy shit, like, people are not receiving what I'm pulling out there or what I'm hearing in my head it's a bit like when the tree falls in the forest and no one's hearing it, no one can hear it doesn't make a sound and it put me in a whole tailspin of well I mean I know I'm a person that has a disability and those two things are completely separate but my god like if if everyone else they're they're just seeing all all one then then what does it matter like you know what what actually what exists more is it how i appear to the world that I cannot change or is it this internal outlook that I have.

1:05:45Right. Yeah, it really became which one, not just which one is more important, which one exists. Yeah. So I know that when my friend said that joke about like, oh, she can't walk in a straight line. And at first I was so confused. I thought it was a stereotype. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You thought it wasn't a, because a good roast joke is a joke that is actually about you. And the person is saying something from a place of knowing. A bad roast joke Is a joke where somebody just uses a stereotype It's almost like Well it's almost like a cheap one Because you go like oh you didn't actually have a joke about me So you just made a joke About what could be about me but it's not about me Low hanging fruit Yes low hanging fruit And that's why I was shocked He was a great comic I was like Why did he do this Did you speak to him about it afterwards Yeah, so after we all piled in a car.

1:06:59Oh, we're back in the car again. We're back in the car. I knew there was a car involved. You were not wrong, Eugene. Back in the car. I've got a lot of cars. Isn't it funny, actually, I'm just realizing now that everything that I learned about myself and my cerebral palsy, I learned in a car. Yeah. Try being on Artemis.

1:07:25Oh my God, disability in space. The sequel. I can only imagine what no gravity will affect. Oh my God. Anyway, my brain wins. I was like, what would it be like? I actually get that a lot too. I get people to ask, like, yeah, well, never. I've never gotten that one. I've never gotten, oh, but would zero gravity help? But I have gotten, oh, does alcohol help? Does weed help? Does, you know. Mushrooms? Well, yeah. Every drug. Does kratom help? Even, like, meditation. Even, like, all the drugs. Wait, did someone really suggest meditation? That's a pretty gangster one. I'm not going to lie. That's a pretty gangster one.

1:08:22I would have expected hypnosis. I have a disability. Have you tried breathing for 10 minutes? In silence. Maybe you should just sit still for a bit and then maybe it'll go. You know, for someone, and I'm not even saying they're an asshole. It's just a funny thing for somebody to say to you. You know what I mean? I have a disability. Hmm. So if you repeat a word, do you have a mantra? You should try using a mantra and say that. Affirmation. Yeah, but meditation is what people offer when everything else has been taken. So they said, have you tried? Have you tried? Have you tried? No, but I get it as well.

1:08:54because I see where the person is coming from. They might be watching your movements. They might be, and they're like, shame. This person just needs to learn how to sit still and feel their body. And then they will emerge from this. I can see somebody thinking that. Because here's the thing that we also take for granted in life, right? Is, and I don't want us to forget the car part, by the way, with the friend. But here's the thing we forget in life is we as a society are also not taught things, right? so we're not taught about disabilities we're not taught about cerebral palsy we're not taught we're not taught most things so you go there's a person in a wheelchair there's a person who walks differently to you there's a person who speaks differently to you but because you do not know anything about it yeah that's all it is so you then have to use your dumb brain because you have no information to try and quote-unquote help the situation because you're like well i don't know what this is so you would suggest meditation because no school has ever taught you about I don't know anyone in school who learned about disabilities genuinely you know I'm sure there's like one or two I didn't I don't think you did I don't think you like in school are we actually learning what no but I can tell you about different rivers tributaries perennial and non-perennial rivers cumulonimbus stratus that's clouds I mean that's that's how I roll son but that has never served me in the world not once have I been in a coffee shop with a cloud that is having a tough day.

1:10:22And then I've gone, hold on, hold on, my friends. I know a few things about Stratus. Wait, let me ask you this. Nimbo Stratus. Sorry. I thought that was only your word to use. Wait, let me ask you this. Have you tried meditation?

1:10:42I love that concept. I'm like, oh, you were without oxygen for 20 minutes? You just had breathing. For 30 minutes Yeah just get it back Just get it back It's never too late Into the guy

1:11:01That's what started this whole thing It's almost like My brain is just Under an inflated balloon I just need to Yeah you just gotta puff it up Breathe into it Puff it back like a Pepsi can So wait so you're in the car Yes I was in the car It was a carpool Of all the Vermont Comedians Going back to That's like all That's all of them It is all of them Pretty much I feel like you can fit All the comedians of Vermont In a car Even if a car accident Took place there The whole industry Would be dead in Vermont And tonight in sad news Comedy is dead Vermont comedy Lost its life today In an unfortunate car accident involving a clown car we are clowns just to be honest it's food everywhere yeah so it was all of us in the car and we're all laughing and again like I in the moment I did not clock it as a real observation I thought it was a shitty joke And so I was benching with him, and I said, oh, I mean, the guy, my friend, he said something at me, and I bit back, and I said, oh, well, I mean, this guy down here is spreading rumors that I walk differently.

1:12:35Like, I don't walk. Do I walk differently? And the whole car went silent. Just imagine a car of six comedians just silent. And again, a lot of my parents reacted. They just, he just squeaked out. He just, I thought you knew. Oh, shame. He felt so terrible. Again, like, he's now, like, my best friend. But it really just is that sort of constant, like, I begin to realize that life is just It's kind of like life is eight decades of realizing things about yourself that people pick up on in eight minutes, you know? It really, that's the whole journey. And it sort of was, when you're at that age, it's no longer kind of, you pass the point of like oh my god what does this say about me but it really I mean don't get me wrong I did have that moment like oh my god but then everything made sense it all made sense the dogs made sense the um and um You know, because at that point in my early 20s, I dealt with a lot of instances at bars and clubs.

1:14:34And people were thinking that I was intoxicated when I was thinking. Oh, shit.

1:14:44Ma 'am, you've had enough. I just walked in. No, ma 'am. No, ma 'am. No, and it would be like I just walked in. They walk up to me like absolutely not. Jeez. This is equally terrible and funny. Well, I do. It's like. I do kind of want to counter it because I don't want to just say like, oh, I'm disabled. Here's a laundry list of all the bad things. There are perks. Okay. Like, one time I was in London. I walked into the Holly Arms, which is like Amy Winehouse's old haunt. Yeah. Legendary bar. And there were barons outside. They stopped me. They thought I was drunk. I began to say it. They realized.

1:15:38And suddenly it was all cleared up. They were like, oh, my gosh. you know they opened the doors the double doors I mean and um and there was this like long uh I mean it was peak time there were just layers of people trying to get a drink and and I was just kind of looking around I looked back at the bartender who was staring at me called me back over and once I got back to me, parted the seats straight up to the bar with me just stabbed his fingers. The bartender puts down the drink she's actively making and goes over and the bouncers get her a drink. She's lovely. She's just lovely. I think there is, of all the harmful things that happen to me being disabled, I'm so glad that I'm not forgettable.

1:16:59Damn, Tina. I just, that would be the worst, you know? I often talk so much in interviews and on stage about all the weight of having to, you know, constantly alleviate people's discomfort about me. Yeah, yeah. But my God, like, I am so, So I feel unbelievably seen by the world, for better and worse. What's funny is the other day we were having a conversation and then we were saying, if you listen to every critic in your life, you'd probably want to bury yourself and never come out again. And sometimes people do that. They go away for a little bit, you know. But while you are where you go, those people still exist.

1:17:58I still exist and I've just given them what they wanted then you come back and then you have a new lease on life and there are a few moments in life where you have this kind of a realization we had it when we were watching the Hulk Hogan documentary and afterwards there was this announcement that was done and I said to Trevor that announcement that was made sounds the way Hulk Hogan always announces himself when he's about to make a statement you can't ignore him let me tell you something brother then you pay attention and you can never forget that Like a lot of people live in this quiet, squeaky voice without expressing themselves properly.

1:18:33And when they see someone who lives loudly like you do, or like a Hulk Hogan does, or like the president of this country does, we get taken aback because we're so not used to people just going, I'm here and I'm just going to do it and say what I want. Well, and to get back to what you were talking about a minute ago, that kind of why people, they judge or get a little bit disgruntled at me. And yeah, it's the inconvenience, but it is also this, like, I get this often online that like, oh man, well, I have this speech impairment. I'm disabled. Why the hell am I a comedian? Like, why take up that space?

1:19:28That's what people ask you? Mm-hmm. yeah kind of I can't believe that no but I okay I forget that I'm a comedian let me tell you something brother no I genuinely I forget that I'm a comedian it's almost like like how self-serving of you to to sort of um suscept to come what and I think the the worst take that I have heard, the most extreme take is, well, you know that we have to accept you if you're a comedian. So like, why, why are you, how is self-serving to do this? And... Can I tell you something interesting about that though? We experienced that in South Africa when comedy was burgeoning, there were many comedians who would say black comedians are only getting a laugh because they're black.

1:20:34Like there was literally a thing where they were just like, oh yeah, it's because they come here and they talk about their tough upbringing and growing up in a township and then people have to laugh because what are you going to do? And we're like, no, but these are funny things. But it's interesting how you can just, you can sort of like find the same people who will apply it to every non-default and just be like, well, you come in here. Because that's why I say, I take for granted that I am a comedian. When I first saw your comedy, like my friend Ryan put me onto it. And the thing we were just looking at was the gags.

1:21:16Like genuinely, genuinely, genuinely. It's like, you know, like with comedy, there's two different ways you watch comedy as a comedian. there's one part where sometimes you're just like watching and observing and then there's sometimes where you're like watching somebody with like a um what i would call like a complimentary jealousy where you're just like man the way this person is slicing apart their experience of the world regardless of where where it comes from so it could be a straight white man who's telling you about like how boring and tough his life is in that and you're going this is fun the way you're doing this is amazing.

1:21:51It could be somebody who's a refugee, somebody, a housewife, somebody who's, it doesn't matter. That was the main thing that I saw where I was just like, I was like, this is ridiculously funny because it felt like you were fully observing how you were observed and how people were thinking about you and not thinking about you. Do you get what I'm saying? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think when you're in that instance, you are so hyper-aware of how people are observing you. And the fact of the matter is, there are people in this world, if you're a minority, there are people that it does not matter what you do, how good you are at anything, what you say, how good of a person.

1:22:43They will see it as, you know an affront almost yes almost like a conspiracy like oh this doesn't belong this doesn't this shouldn't exist out here but again I always use this example of art you know paintings I wish I could remember the name of the artist, but there was an artist that would cover a whole canvas in one color, one red shade, all by just a paintbrush. There was a massive uprising of anger, like, why is this art? This is not art. even though for one, the ability to so evenly cover canvas with just the brushes, like incredible. But aside from that, there was such an anger that like, oh, this is not art, that then there became this second window of, But, oh, well, it evokes an emotion, so therefore it is art.

1:24:12It is art, yeah. It doesn't matter if it's a red square. It's angering people. And that... It's doing something. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, that's, I think how comedy is. You, I feel like you can see it a lot in the whole comedy industry of no matter what you do, just get a reaction. Just any kind of reaction is a good outcome as opposed to just kind of being out there and, you know, being like... I would so much rather get a visceral, angry reaction than like... Than nothing. Okay. That was cool. Yeah, but this is what I come back to is I've seen this present itself for every type of comedy and every comedian, regardless of their background.

1:25:20People just find the thing that they don't want. But what's more important for me and why I've always loved stand-up, you know, and Eugene and I have talked about this for years. I mean, we met through stand-up, now it's like 20 years ago. It's insane.

1:25:37I am a 19-year-old phenom.

1:25:45I wasn't doing that 20 years ago. Yeah, when you look at... One thing I've always loved about comedy is it's honest. And what I mean by that is, you know, we had SD from the Comedy Cellar on the podcast and we were talking about this. It's, you can fool like maybe one audience and then maybe one audience can feel bad for you and then maybe one, you can't do it with everyone. You can't do it nationwide. You can't do it internationally. At some point, all that's happening is people are coming to watch the show because you're funny and smart in processing the world in some way, shape or form. Not smart just like you know things but every funny comedian I think is smart in the way that they're dissecting words sentences ideas etc and making an audience have an involuntary response coming out of their bodies and that I think that's my favorite thing about comedy is it doesn't have a studio on the other side blocking you it doesn't have like there aren't like king makers there's no you know what people refer to as like industry plants or whatever whether you believe in it or not comedy just doesn't It's honest Do that You know Even audiences I judge them sometimes They'll be like Why did that comedian They were never funny Then I'm like No no no You people were laughing at them When you were Don't try disown them now They were of your time Don't now disown them And that time was 10 minutes 5 minutes Let me tell you It doesn't matter But people love acting like You know Sometimes people will play A clip of an old comedian Even from the 80s They'll be like I can't believe people were Who were Then you're like No We were a society Then Yeah I know you may not like it now maybe it's out of fashion but there is no comedian who can blow up apart from society it's just not a thing you can't you just can't whenever I get these comments online of like a viral video of mine and there'll be a comment like man the pity laughs do you know how hard it is to pity laugh these are people can i tell you something these are also people who don't actually go that's that's one of the things i hate about the internet and i hope you don't live in the comments i did i stopped that long ago tina it's just like when you don't go to comedy you don't understand how honest a room is yeah you want to talk about pity laughs i've seen some of the most famous people get on stage, movie stars, musicians, even comedians get on, audience, first three minutes, yeah, they say anything, yeah, and then at some point the audience is like, all right, we've run out of the - Pity ones.

1:28:37Yeah, the free ones are gone. We can't give you the fame laughs anymore. We can't give you the pity laughs anymore. We can't. And then you just, the audience just goes like, all right, we're done. A room is really, really honest. You know why? Because the room is dark And there's anonymity So no one in the crowd Feels personally responsible For a laugh happening Or not happening And there's also safety Because people come Come with other people Safety of companionship People can refer to The other person And go I'm not crazy Yeah the pity You know what I wish You could do Oh man this would be Such a great gag For those people I wish you could Do an impression Like change your voice And then sound Like you don't have Cerebral palsy Just for a moment just for those people.

1:29:20It would break, it would explode their brains. I saw you're my friend. That's what I was thinking. I have a joke like that where it really happened. There was a woman who came up to me one time and said that she loved it, but for the first 15 minutes, she thought I was faking it. And in the joke, I said, can you believe that? I worked so hard on this character. I hate you. That's a good one. I wish so much that I could somehow say it in a normal voice. Can I tell you? It would be a South African comedian, friend of ours, Riyad Musa. He had a joke like this. So he is from Cape Town in South Africa.

1:30:12So he has a particular accent and he's got like quite a thick one as well, right? but he's also a master of mimicry can just do any voice you name you know morgan freeman you name it he just he nails them all but it's jarring for people especially who aren't from south africa to hear him because he'll have an accent that's quite that like you know what i mean like his accents and so we were in montreal doing shows and when he was on on uh on one of the the lineups and he came out and he did like flawless flawless accents and then after one of the comedians came up to him and they were like hey man you uh he's like you you can you can sound like anyone you want to and he's like yeah no thank you very much then he's like yeah why don't you just talk like that all the time then at that point and i was just like oh yeah you know what i mean and riyadh tells that story on stage but it's so funny because you go wait what person's like yeah Why don't you just, if you, oh man.

1:31:13Well, it reminds me of Maria Bamford. Who's that? So Maria Bamford is this unbelievable comedian. And she talks, a lot of her comment is about her struggles with mental health. and she'll often pull out. She's got a very particular way of speaking where it's very, very dialed in and just almost like you're hearing the inside of her voice. And it really mimics this kind of chaotic anxiety and disalignment that she has with the outside world. But then she perfectly mimics a normal or suburban white woman voice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she'll dialogue back and forth with this normal-sounding woman.

1:32:29And then her. The inner voice. And, yeah, and it's so incredible. It's so just believable. I actually, where I first found her, I just have that thought, like, oh, I wonder if she ever just had that voice to kind of mask. Yeah, you could just, like, live masking the whole way. Yeah, it's unbelievable. But, I mean, honestly, like, even if I had the ability to talk normal, I kind of wonder, I think I'd be a bit of a bitch. I think I'd just turn into something I'd end up despising. I would become the monster. I would just be... I know. I have to go find this newfound power and I would just speak to more managers.

1:33:45I don't know. I need to be humble. I think that's why God did this to me. Absolutely. that oh man oh my god oh wow can i ask you a question you're you're one of the things that's that's always amazed me about your comedy is your timing and i've always wondered how much of your timing plays into the idea of what we think cerebral palsy may or may not be and how you are actually experiencing it because like like your body is not fully in your control but you've learned how to live in yourself or so but i want to know how you work out the timing that's because Because comedy is all the timing. How do you do that?

1:34:29Well, thank God for comedy because timing is one thing that I can control. I learned that the power does come in the policies. And a bit like singing, I speak very slowly. and comedy is one of the very few instances where that can be used as an advantage. Oh, I love that. Okay. And I mean, that's why, you know, I can... Even before stand-up, I would use that to my advantage of sort of deferring the sentence I was saying right at the end almost just to make sure people were listening to me and not zoning out.

1:35:29You know, I don't know. Because I get talked to about my timing in comedy all the time. And really, like, I don't know. It's been one of those things that I've always had it. And I mean, I use common in as a kid as a language, quite literally, to show other people, kids and adults, that I was cognitively all here. It's amazing. It's amazing that that is like one of the measures that we have, right? Yeah. No, really. It's truly amazing how... Humor? Yeah. As soon as somebody does that, you go, oh, oh, shit. Like, you know, I've seen that happen to some people who don't speak a language well. Oftentimes, I'll see it in English, obviously.

1:36:26Someone who doesn't speak English well. And you can see people around them treat them like they aren't intelligent. And then when they just drop one joke or one, like, you see the people go like, oh, you're here. Oh, like, you're fully here. there's like a even like a person who's like bedridden or let's say an old person you know like literally on their deathbed type thing and everyone's talking about them in the third person let them drop a joke and everyone's like grandpa's still with us sorry grandpa we thought you were it's amazing how that happens actually exactly I like the way that you put that like it brings it to third person back to oh shit oh you're here like you're hi Yeah, you know, it really just is a bit of a life hack, you know?

1:37:21Just, and especially now, 32, how old am I? 32 years into my life, I know so much more about how you're going to react to my cerebral palsy than you do. So it's like I can see, I can almost see where you're, a bit like the algorithm, I can see where your mind's about to go. Ah, okay, yeah. And that really helps, like, in terms of being on stage and timing. and, well, funny about Esty at the comedy cellar because one story that I have from my time there was I was doing the cellar. She was in the back of the room watching, so obviously pressure is high. And I'm about to go up on stage. The host leans into me, and, oh, Tina, hang on, Dave Chappelle just walked in and he'll go up there and do 20 minutes.

1:38:43But only, only 20 minutes he has to run after. So you'll go up after him. And, you know, I kind of, I've seen this play out before that, like, a big name goes up there, crushes it. And then some guy gets up after it. It's such a painful position to be in. Trying to, like, pedal their, like, jokes about their dog. But the whole movement is just, like, electrified. And, like, you know, and they bomb. But I was, all this happening all the while Esty, the booger, is watching. I think oh this is how it ends this is how oh my god so I think okay well I think to myself the only possible thing that I can do is listen to what Chappelle is saying on stage and then come up with a callback joke and then I can get up there and somehow say that and then and they can write that on my epitaph.

1:40:08And so he's about getting so bad. He's incredible, brings his own piano player, and is just commenting on the world, and it is so profound. And then, by the way, I can say this, because he actually did also say this in his special after. But about 10 minutes in, he just says, you know, I know I get a lot of heat for a lot of kinds of jokes that I make about minorities. So today I'm only doing handicap jokes. I bet there is one handicapped person In this room right now Just probably in the back That's where they keep them Probably just sitting there Like And the whole room Like Laughed And he said Probably not Too many stairs To get down here Jesus Dave And every comic lined up in the back just looked at me.

1:41:30And I thought, they were horrified. But I was just like, yes. All praise to the handicapped God. Yes. Yes. God has some love for me. Have his day. Hallelujah. I was like, oh my God. Shabelle had given me the best possible thing he could ever give me, which really was that I now had a bullet. I could get up there and not say a thing. And again, timing, like in the moment, the timing just came up. but I knew exactly I knew exactly I can see it before it happened it's a bit like shooting a ball like I got up there just you know and I just said lucky guest Dave and I just not enough fucking stairs and the whole room just like erupts and yeah it's just I mean and that's all it is just like to be the walking personification of a joke those are the as you say it's like the greatest gifts you will ever receive in comedy in those those are the moments where you're just like ah there's a higher power looking out for me and they're a fan of my shows and yeah well and also the way the comedy works it really it works a lot like music it really is that comedy that might be a little bit more provocative like Chappelle he can you know it's a very particular kind of laughter when you're laughing at something you should not be laughing at it's this almost like minor chord but it's so good and it's like And you talk about the anonymity of the dark room.

1:43:50Yeah. And they're all collectively just having this devious moment. And it's so good. And then, you know, I can see just the timing of that. And then I come in and I almost resolve the situation. Completely. and it just it layers on just a whole another level of humor to it it kind of was the perfect moment and yeah I go back to Esty the booker and she I'm just like crying I'm like I can't believe it worked and she does she did not was not aware of the play that I made in my own head about it. She just said, oh, isn't it so fun to follow a really big comedian? I was like, yeah, yeah. Sure. You know, I mean, that's why I love comedy.

1:45:07Do you feel most normal in comedy? Like of all the things in the world, I wonder where you feel the least like you are not part of a club and the most like you're part of a club. Oh, my God. Sorry. I mean, yes. Not to step on you. But yes. I mean, I feel a bit more comfortable talking to 250 people than I do talking to two people right now. Well, thanks. You didn't have to say two people. There's only two people here, Tina. You could have said like a metaphorical number like one or five. You didn't have to say, I feel more comfortable talking to 250 people than you two losers. I feel way more comfortable talking to two people than two South Africans.

1:45:55I feel way more comfortable. I'm mad uncomfortable right now. I'm working at the cross, guys. You've been out there an hour 40. I'm sorry. I don't know about you guys. I don't know.

1:46:14But I mean, like, I just, I think I, there is this, like, level of control that you have when you're on the stage of it's the most you'll ever be able to control how you're perceived. Oh, yeah. And that's huge. Also, a lot of the comedy, you know, as much as I absolutely adore touring and performing for my fans, And I love going to the comedy summer and performing for people that have no idea who I am. It is the best. It really, like, because fresh meat, you know, like, I just... You've lived around student campuses for too long.

1:47:20And there's no perceived notion of me, and for better and for worse, I... And I know that I said earlier that I wish I could just, every person that I meet, I wish I could just have this whole conversation with them. Right, yeah. The context of it. But that's all that my comedy is. I'm not kidding about anything. All I'm doing is just saying what I wish it would be okay to say in real life on the street across the hot dog cart, you know? So, yeah, I mean, stand-up comedy, it's miraculous that I got into it because it kind of found me. It finds all of us. That's what it does. Actually, I feel like there is a cop-out thing to say.

1:48:34No, no, no, it does, but it finds all of us. The one thing I'll say to you is, I hope this proves to be true, is don't take for granted the moment that you're in because there's a weird thing that happens with comedy where like at some point as Tina, everyone, that's what I'm saying, I hope it does come to be true. Everyone will have heard you And everyone will know you And I genuinely know for a fact There'll be a part of you that goes like Damn, I wish you guys hadn't heard of me Because now, do you know what I mean? It's this weird dichotomy that we have in comedy Where as a comedian You'll spend your whole career Wishing everyone knows you And then you'll spend the remainder of it Wishing nobody knew you Because the surprise that you possess And the ability that you have to completely construct an artificial idea of you on any given night is a superpower that nobody appreciates until they don't have it.

1:49:38And then you hit it, and then immediately you walk on stage and then people go, ah, okay, it's Dave Chappelle. Ergo, he has to do this or not do this, or there's a preconceived notion. It's like, ah, there this person is. They have to do it. You know what I mean? it's this weird you know it's like you want to wish to get to the top of the mountain but on the other side you only can go down not down as in bad but it's like you can't go up from the up it becomes a different journey now yeah yeah you can't exceed expectations yes that's a perfect way to put it yeah Louis C.K. said it to me in the most beautiful way one day he was talking to me right before I started the Daily Show and he said at the Comedy Cellar he said don't take for granted he said what did he say he said enjoy the moments that you are not known because you can only be not known for a certain amount of time and he says and when that goes away you're just known i was like oh that's a weird thing what are you telling you know what i mean it's just like a random thing someone's telling you Some advice really doesn't land until you've experienced it.

1:50:52Yeah. But from a performer's point of view, I got it. Even if you're a musician, think about it. You know, it's that old adage they say for musicians, you have your whole life to write your first album. And we get the album and we go, what amazing music. Who are you? Yeah. Wow, this is so beautiful. Then the second album comes out. Then we're like, okay, it's not, look, your first album is still my favorite, but this is great. And the third album is like, oh, are you still singing about heartbreak? Oh, my God. Or fourth album, you don't sing about heartbreak anymore. You know, their voice is a little like that thing they do.

1:51:24It's amazing how quickly you can go from being a breath of fresh air to just being bad breath. Huh. Damn. Wow. So I hope you just hold this moment for yourself for as long as it will be. Because it won't be at some point. And then you'll look back and go, damn. You know You'll turn to someone And be like They're like Oh I know everything about you Tina I love your vibe I love your vibe You're not throwing me off at all Tina And then you're like Damn Even the dogs in the street Be like Tina What's up Tina Tina Tina

1:52:02You can't touch me They'll just Start humping my way

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1:53:44You are arguably the most incredibly lucky person ever, luckiest person I've ever met, because what could have ended your life set you on a course, brought you into a world with parents who played for a living, who took you to go play with them for a living, and you met people who play for a living in the theatre, then you went and played for a living. So everything that has happened to you that is monumental, that is sort of a discovery of what the disability brought out of you. Because I don't think you are the disability. It just brings out stuff out of you. Was your seven-year-old brother and obviously the car ride going home when you made the realization after the roast.

1:54:24And after that, it was smooth sailing for you because those two truths were enough and they were fact. But the fact that the doctor was able to get to the hospital on time, resuscitate you, and your parents had you for the rest of their lives trying to shelter you from not losing yourself is a gift that you can give to everyone else when you live loudly and get on stage. And that's incredible. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, people, you know, I get painted inspiration a lot. And, you know, I have a very complicated relationship without inspiration. I think I'm sure that you both get that too. And it doesn't land in the way that I think people want, expect it to land in you.

1:55:19Because, like, you know, oftentimes, like, if I'm doing an article or talking to a fan, they'll ask kind of, why are you doing this? What's the goal? How are you looking to get to imprint on everyone? And, you know, now I kind of have developed this media train. And I think that even though disability is only relative to a certain section, I think that the need for acceptance is universal. That's the immediate trade. In reality, I don't have a goal. Like, I, you know, I talk about myself in that I'm living in the bonus round, you know, because I, it was game over. From the onset. Yes. And then the doctor put a few quarters in.

1:56:40And I do have a joke about this, really, that, like, I'm now on free play. and, like, I'm above the law and nothing matters anymore. And, I mean, just, like, a lot of my jokes is a joke, but I'm hiding in plain sight, and it really is 100 % true that in any given moment, I never lose sight of the fact that I'm not really supposed to be here. How many times have I told you this? Yeah, Eugene says that all the time. Yeah. And how unbelievably disruptive it is that the odds have fallen in this direction.

1:57:41and not only that, you know, it sort of led me to this career where I am impacting so many people, but And again, to get back to kind of growing up in a theater with this kind of delusion of fiction, you know, and well, of course this can happen. And this, no, I think I do owe a lot of where I got to because somewhat along the lines, along with motor function, I also lost this kind of voice in my head that, like, I need to curb my expectations on reality. And that almost, I mean, it does feel a little bit like a simulation. a bit. Not to get a little bit too meta about it, but I mean there is this constant voice in my head of, well yeah, of course.

1:59:12Of course this happened. Of course comedy happened and I'm sitting with you guys because I'm supposed to be dead. and for some reason that didn't happen. My life feels kind of like a sequel. Damn. I keep telling you this. That's an amazing way to think about it. Mm-hmm. Let me tell you something. You know, the thing you're saying about not knowing how to, or rather the term you're such an inspiration not landing, Atsuko was on the podcast And we were chatting about this And we were joking about it She was saying She learned very early on When people are like You're so brave That means they don't see you In like a good light They're like Man your shit is When they're like You're such an inspiration They're like I do not wish I had your life That's what people are essentially saying I wouldn't rather die Yeah that's what people But there's also There's also another layer to it That I think we shouldn't take for granted Right In life we are living as us, technically for ourselves.

2:00:21I'm not saying you can't live for others and do things, but we are living as us for ourselves. What we take for granted is the fact that we are affecting others around us, whether we want to or not. And so you don't need to choose to be an inspiration to be one. You just are one. And it's a strange paradigm for people to accept because we sometimes think it comes with a responsibility or an obligation or an idea of how we should be moving through the world. But it's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not that. And I mean it on every level, not just in the world of like fame and fortune. I think of how many parents were an inspiration to their kid without them knowing genuinely.

2:01:08You know, you'll talk to people who go like, who's your biggest inspiration? They go like, oh man, my mom, she worked three jobs and she'd come home and she'd still make time to love us. And, you know, it was so amazing to see how she would. But then when you talk to the mom, the mom's like, huh? She's like, what other option did I have? Well, what do you mean? You can't not love your kids and you can't not work for them. And they'd be like, yeah, but that inspired us. Mom's like, inspire. Get out of here with your inspiration. I was just living the life that I was meant to live and I had to live.

2:01:36But I think both things can be true at the same time. And I don't think we have to take it for granted. It's somebody just observing you from the outside going, what you naturally do or how you are makes me feel a certain way and i appreciate that and then if you are the person who's receiving that almost just go like oh good for you do you know what i mean it's like good good for you i'm happy that that is because i often think of it this way is like i don't know what the opposite is it a desperation what is the opposite of inspiration i don't know what the opposite of that would be what's the antonym i mean i guess uninspired but i'm gonna say desperation you know what i mean but imagine if somebody walked up to you and they were like hey i just want you to know that you were uh you're the most uninspiring person i've ever met in my life and we we take for granted don't take it selfishly but if you can inspire anyone what a cool thing in life man you were just doing your own thing yeah and somebody else got the benefit of that like you were the shark just eating something and then there was a fish swimming next to you like yeah thank you so much shark i wasn't gonna get that if it weren't for you and you're like what shut up i'm i'm just being me and the person's like yeah but i live because of you there's i think there's a there's a beautiful non-zero-sum part of life that exists in that.

2:03:03You just get to be you. And because of that, I feel like there's something better and greater. It makes me see more in the world. But just be you. You just continue being you. It's one of the few things that you can achieve without putting any extra effort. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. It's like being an inspiration and being a crush. Like those. Yeah, nothing to do. It's two things. and being a crush you have nothing to do with any other it just happens without you like 10 moments I didn't do shit like but yeah yeah

2:03:48maybe actually that's why it feels so weird to be called into your face it is like being like I have a crush on you and yeah you don't know how to respond to it yeah it's like well like can you be glad to you say I don't have a response now you just like this is the intrusive thoughts in my head when you say certain things I'm so glad you have those I mean he is my intrusive thoughts so normally no but like do you ever encounter guys who have a crush on you but because they're fetishizing you in some way all the time yeah oh So, yes, it really began to happen with my comedy. I never had it. I think stepping into the public eye made it much more apparent for me.

2:04:47But that's why when I was on the apps, I would always struggle. of when in this whole process do I say that I am disabled? Because I did learn that I was balancing this precarious world of lots of guys where they were not attracted to me because I'm disabled. And then the subsect of other guys. Polish professors. Yeah. and then there's this guy a pseudoscientist and you know and the tricky thing is I think you know people that might fetishize disability they don't know it's not like them fetishizing anime girls or something Like it really, because when you're fantasizing disability, what you're really fantasizing is the need for help.

2:06:09That's the sub layer. That's the, yeah. Yeah, the weakness or dependency. Dependency. And I, yeah, I do often. I get that, but it creeps in, you know. It's hard to sort of, I'm still on a journey, I think, of discerning. I mean, I'm single still. So this is like an ongoing. I think a person, you in particular, you'd be, you'd find it difficult to date someone who fetishizes you or your disability because you are everything. You're the opposite of what they think you'd be. You're immensely popular. You are very confident. You're outspoken. You're independent. Well, funny enough, I think that's almost why people that might fetish as disability are actually more attracted to me because there is this sort of, you know, I have data guys that were very open about the feeling that really tickled them in a good way.

2:07:37that I was this powerhouse that I was confident and successful and worked upon and yet I was reliant to rely on them. Wow. That's so many levels deep. Yes. I actually have had Full discussions with An ex Partner of mine who About whether or not Fetishizing disability Is actually Right or wrong I love those exit interviews With an ex that's when you get to know Who you could have been dating Because I've never been that honest It did make me question A few Exactly. Like, why are you arguing for this? But it's, like, interesting you devil's advocate. Yeah, exactly.

2:08:47Maybe they're just into spitting. I don't know.

2:08:54But I think, you know, generally, like, the debate would be, well, you know, yeah, it is easy to say, of course I don't want someone who fetishizes my disability. they want. But then, I mean, I do want someone who's attracted to me, and that means all of me. So, and, you know, disability, I've had a whole other conversation that I love having is disability and attraction and how those two things, you know, disability biologically being something that human beings perhaps should not be attracted to and how despite that we make it happen. and whether that's a conscious effort based on society now or if that really is a biological adaptability but I'm just trying to find a boyfriend man is that too much to ask?

2:10:21I'm just a girl well you know what's interesting about it is I like what you just said because we forget that these things exist everywhere in every shape in every form it's just some are sort of more unique than others because of how infrequently they occur so there's people who fetishize like some will be like ah big boobs and the guy's in that's all they fetishize big butt I'm in and then there's women who fetishize tall guys ah tall tall the taller the better oh he's so tall and you're like what is it about him? Just like he looks like he could just like pick me up and he kisses me on my forehead and you're like what?

2:11:02But there's people who fetishize things about other people all the time. Beards. They have a type. Yeah, it's true. They have a type. But because it is not something that we commonly encounter, we then might have a more negative reaction towards it. But we wouldn't the other way. I've met couples who go, oh yeah, he knows I'm into da da da. That's why I was, that's why I'm with him. he knows I've got a thing for she knows that I'm into and he happens to be that thing so he's safe there's also the person I get you but the thing that I fetishize about them as a partner they have it and so you're like you're in this world where it's like I've had a discussion about friends with this where I go sometimes I think if we're not careful the I mean I wouldn't want to use the word like woke in that way because not like not like the way people use it in political discourse, but more just like, sometimes you can be so woke that you're unwoke.

2:12:03Yes. You know what I mean? So now you're almost going like, hey, do not perv my friend Tina. She does not deserve that. You do not think about taking her to your bedroom. Tina's like, Tina's like, please take me. I was just kidding. I was just kidding.

2:12:31No but that's what I mean If you're not careful You can become so considerate That you're inconsiderate You're so like overly You're overly woke You restrict the person From having a full human experience Because you In your infinite niceness Slash considerateness Have now been inconsiderate And go this person cannot have that or I must protect them from it. They might even want to overly protect you. That guy's no good for you. No, no, no. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your boyfriend's also not good for you. It's okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's keep this thing. You know what I mean? Well, that is exactly what I'm talking about, that it's so easy to rock off that notion of like, oh, of course I wouldn't want to date a person who fetishizes disability.

2:13:21And yet, the more that I think about it, I'm like, well, but also, like, I wouldn't want to be loved despite being disabled. Oh, damn. I want to be loved and disabled. Like, I don't want there to be a pretty honestly large part about me that is tolerated. Yeah, that the person looks at you and goes, if this wasn't there, this would be perfect. Or not even that sometimes. It could be the other thing. It's not even them saying that. It's them in a way treating it like it is the one part of you that sort of shouldn't be there. But they're in the, you know what I mean? So not even tolerating you or not even thinking about you should be perfect.

2:14:10It's almost like pity and love. Pity and love don't mix. Oh, God. You don't ever want to be pitied in love. You just want someone to love you. Yeah So you would rather I think I would rather be fetishized And loved Than to be pitied and loved Yeah Unless you're an orphan Because you know That pity comes with that love And that's why you live home In the first place Oh I thought you were like Like a couple in the bedroom And Yeah that's what I was thinking I thought you were talking about Fetishes with orphans I was like damn bro Oh and you're an orphan Describe your friend Tina Oh my god So who is your daddy Who is Who is Who is your dad?

2:14:49You don't know who your daddy is, do you? Dad? You don't know who your daddy is at all. That's why this works. I'm loving this. Oh, man. Tina, this has been too much fun. We could do this forever with you. I know. We've got to do this again. I mean, it's a pity and also a joy that you live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. No, but I'm just up the road. We should definitely, we should just hang again. This is like so much fun. Can we? Yeah, of course. No, because just like comedian vibe. Eugene and I talk about this all, play, as you're saying. You know, I was just thinking about something, again, crazy thoughts.

2:15:26A lot of people, I mean, myself included, will watch podcast videos, et cetera, whatever. And then I'll, in parts of it, I'll play at double speed. Someone's going to play a part of this conversation double speed. Oh, yeah. And then your voice is going to sound different, maybe even more normal, funny enough. that's I actually fully expect all people with all my podcasts to be watching sped up yeah but think about how crazy that is because then they're going to go wait wait wait let me go normal speed and then they're going to think something broke on their YouTube yeah this is like only you know we're going to get comments only your guest is in.25 something is wrong with your video please check your video is stuck your guest is in.5 and you what's happening on this video?

2:16:20You better fire some and there's going to be someone else who goes what's wrong with the subtitle? Oh man no for real just like just selfishly for me as a comedian I was just like when Ryan put me on because we have such we have similar tastes in comedy and when he put me on I was like this is one of the funniest things I have ever experienced and it's been a joy watching you like on your journey go from like clubs to theaters to nationwide tours. But as Eugene says, like selfishly for comedy, like vibes, man. You know what I mean? We're always looking for like more vibes, like in comedy and, you know what I mean?

2:17:02Oh, and I know, I feel like nowadays comedy is more individual, it's more isolated. Yeah, it is. No, it is. It is. Just social media, promotion, touring. And so like being able to sit down. We hang with each other less than ever. Yeah. Yeah. Less than ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. You look back at the history of the comedy store and seller and you realize how much comedy was just a hang. It was a hang. The sets were extensions of the hang They were In fact that's what I feel You know that's one of the things that always used to break my heart around comedy Was every time I would hear about a comedian who had committed suicide It was always on the road Alone In a hotel room It was never at home in the city where they lived in Or at a club No it was never that Or on an ensemble show Where there was a line up It was never that It was always alone On tour in a hotel room.

2:18:12But it's safe to say our thing doesn't exist in isolation. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. No, you have to. And that's what I always do point to every comedian has an airplane joke. They have a hotel room joke. And I mean, it's a sign of like you're being taken away from the very thing that made you who you are. So, So I'm going to get some heat for saying this. Say it, Tina. But I cannot wait for this rise of comedy in social media to die. Damn. Say more. Yes. I think for so many reasons, and I say this as a comedian who owes her career to social media. Oh, so you want to pull the ladder up. I see what Tina's saying.

2:19:12Now that I'm in, it's time to shut this shit down. No more comedy for you losers from the internet. I was the last one. We thought there was for two of a kind. It's not an arc. It's Adamus 5. We've had enough. All those. No way. Yeah, enough comedians. No, but like, you know, for a variety of reasons, I think that, I mean, watching comedy 60 seconds at a time, when I began to get back into making an actual effort to watch stand-up hours on Netflix, Hulu, wherever it was, I realized that so many comedians that I follow and know personally, I had no idea what their voice was. Oh, interesting. I had no clue what their, because I would see crowd work.

2:20:20I would see just viral minutes. And for one, my whole list of top ten comedians totally rearranged itself in a way I didn't expect. And so the way that I view putting my comedy online, it's not like putting your art in a gallery. It's like viewing someone's art from outside the gallery in a parking lot. That's also a parking lot to like a convention center and a stadium and a strip club. Altogether. The Herbalife Convention. it's just like I don't know it does make it accessible and that's good but I I think it's great for discovering that you actually like stand up but now I think it's just gone on for too long So if I may, this is the way I see it.

2:21:50So I agree with what you're saying. If there was one part of it where I would sort of, you know, deviate from how you feel about it. I came to realize a while ago that in every art, in every medium, you have to accept the reality that you have to meet people where they are and no medium no art form no platform no no space has ever enjoyed seeing itself shift or see itself viewed in a different way or from a different place I'm sure there was a world where people were really pissed off when people started making prints of art i'm sure there was a world people like no you can't make a print of the mona lisa you go and and i i genuinely know that i used to be like one of those people in in many ways but then i then i realized one day i went some people are never going to see the mona lisa most people are never going to see the mona lisa ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever in person ever ever ever ever ever in person they just won't i have to suspend the purity that i have for this you know my my awe and my and my admiration for this art form and think of the people first because i've seen comedy go through booms and busts you know when i started doing comedy and when i first came to the u.s it was sort of like bust phase comedians weren't really doing well clubs weren't doing that great and it goes in waves by the way it keeps you know so your your wish is going to come true at some point but it's weird how it happened there was a point where like every comedian got a sitcom you did like a tight 10 at montreal and you had a sitcom you did a good late night spot and you got a sitcom that's how it like worked for a while you you just got a deal and then that's boom yeah yeah that died and then it just died and then it was like all right people are on the road and you're just grinding and you're doing comedy and you're grinding and you're doing comedy and there were a few outliers who were stars but people were just like doing comedy doing comedy doing comedy and then comedy started making you know it started making waves again i think around like the netflix era it started like doing something again it became you you sort of saw it in the in the public domain it wasn't just comedy fans who consumed comedy yeah and then that that just as that wave you thought it was dipping down social media came in in a new way and i've had this conversation with a bunch of comedians and i i genuinely don't say this as somebody who hasn't held the opinion i say this as somebody who's now changed my opinion at first i would go ah i don't know this crowd work and these videos but then i went those people are way more likely to watch an hour and are way more likely to come to a comedy club than if they never got that 60 second clip and because i love stand-up comedy as a medium and as an art form and as a space this is and that's why i hate like fractions factions and fractures in comedy like i hate it when comedians even act like they know what i'm like guys this is the we must never forget that we were the misfits we were the misfits when i see comedians becoming the jocks, I'm like, ah, you forget.

2:25:18How quickly you forget where you came from. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not talking about like punching up or punching down. Forget that. I'm just saying how quickly you forget that you came from not being the mainstream in your life. You were not the popular one. Your views were not popular. Your friends were not popular. Your vibe was not popular. That's how you got into comedy. And then as comedy has blown up, you have now become the jock. The jock. and I'm like yo man don't ever forget why you got into it don't forget how it freed you don't forget and so for the people I genuinely selfishly for comedy go there are going to be many moments where you know it's like like my younger brother he's 20 21 I always lose track he's 21 22 maybe barely he like never watches movies when he does watch a movie he watches it on TikTok really yeah like full-on full-on full-on watch it so i would say have you watched arrival and he'd be like no and be like oh it's this movie where aliens arrive and they they they speak through time and they see time differently and they and he's like oh yeah no no oh and then he'll talk he's like oh yeah i've seen i saw that on tiktok then i'm like no no the movie and he's like yeah i saw it on tiktok then i'm like you saw the trailer and he goes no i watched the movie on tiktok then i'm like my friend you cannot watch a movie on tiktok and he's like no you can and then he showed me how on tiktok people will take a movie splice it up into little like six minutes or 10 minute chunks and then you just go like part one part two but the main thing is they cut out everything that you as a old school movie viewer would consider like the fidelity of like the the opening scene so they get to the point establishing shots and just yeah they just go like let's go plot plot let's keep this thing moving let's go i hate that that's how i felt but then I went when was he going to watch this movie?

2:27:17And here you are talking about the same movie. Yes and I was going which do I prefer? There are many movies that I've never watched in my life from before my time and people will tell me you gotta go back you haven't seen Hitchcock's film about you don't oh my god you don't know cinema. Ah man Trevor Hensler too much at synagogues. good luck catching good luck getting me to go back and watch that yeah but I go yeah but at least there are kids who may not have what we consider the you know the taste the real bona fide experience of the film but they are closer to it than nothing yeah and so please trust me I'm completely with you in the feeling but I then go like nah you know what how they come in is how they come you know who used to do well I guess they still sort of do churches they're like how you come to Jesus we're not worried about come as you are no no and what brings you we don't worry it could be that you hit rock bottom it could be that you brought a friend it could be that and that that like welcoming inclusive feeling is one that I've tried to adopt in comedies where I go what brought you here you know where where mine would go the first time I had to deal with this was when somebody said that they liked me because they had watched some other clippy comedian who wasn't even a stand-up.

2:28:42That's the one that got me. There were people who were making, have I told you about this? People would make fake stand-up shows. Of you? No, no, no, of themselves online. They would stand up in front of a green screen. No. And then they would use editing software to make it seem like they were in a comedy club. and they would put laughter in. Oh, yes. And they would, you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, and people would watch this. And if you watch it as a comedian, it's uncanny valley. You'll find yourself going, something's weird here. That joke doesn't sound as funny as that laugh. And then at first you go, am I being a hater?

2:29:24Am I? But then you go, no, no, no. There's a craft of comedy that I understand. That timing doesn't match that. That pause. And then you go, oh. And then I found out there were a bunch of people doing this. really blew up during COVID. So they weren't comedians like stand-ups and they'd make these shows and they would do quite well. And someone said to me one day, oh, I love your show. So I actually, I was a big fan of this thing and then I saw you and then I loved yours and then I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How dare you like that and like me? How dare you? Do you understand that I am a comedian?

2:30:02I was like yo man how they come is how they come Yeah How they come is how they come You know how I started liking sushi First I just ate fish fingers I was not a sushi I hated sushi most of my life Really Yo the first time Was a girlfriend at the time She gave me sushi I was like this is disgusting It is unnecessary And most importantly is un-African This here I can never eat this I was like this is madness here you are giving me raw fish to eat i don't understand how we even paid this how is this restaurant still in business this is a scam they gave us raw fish and we paid them for it and now when you see me today i mean but how did i start fish fingers got me and fish fingers are the gateway drug from fish fingers to nigiri so what i'm saying is tina like we maybe we we shouldn't judge the fish fingers because they because they could bring it you know bring us more people towards sushi.

2:30:57Yeah, I mean, it's true that, yeah, there's, you know, the ego of it that I'm coming from, and then there's the logic of it that you are coming from. That, like, I think the ego in me says, like, I work so hard to be perceived in 60-second fish finger bites. Like, this is my art. This is not Dino Nuggets.

2:31:34But you're right. Like, you know, it needs, I can agree that the accessibility of it, we rely on that, I think, maybe more than we like to admit. Yeah. Yeah. I know that before comedy, sorry, before social media, I had a whole opposing gripe that I found that comedy, when people would come to a comedy show, and maybe it's a bit of an amateur show, and they do not love it, they think, oh, I guess I'm just not a comedy person. Yeah, I would hate that. When people are like, I'm not a fan of comedy. I was like, no, that's not possible. You just haven't found your comedian. Is that a real thing? Yeah.

2:32:28Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, no. Sorry. This brings an interesting point. It almost feels like social media, the internet is consuming, is cannibalizing every industry. It is. At some point, filmmakers hate the kids that make TikTok videos. Yeah, they do. Musicians hate AI music. Yeah, they do. Comedians, obviously. we know who we hate we're not gonna tell them because now they'll know journalists yeah financial advisors because there's people who with their shirts off and six packs and selling Forex and driving a Lamborghini in Miami and giving financial advice so I guess yeah it is consuming everyone but I think the true artists of every trade whether it's financial services movies or acting they'll always emerge because I feel like the true thoroughbreds of any industry will always win yeah maybe maybe all that I'm feeling is I just hope and maybe it will never happen but but I'm hoping that that there is still this funnel this filter um from social media consumption into the bigger art form the yeah that's what we all hope yeah no that's what we all hope I don't even think it's gonna happen I think it is happening I think it's always happened there is zero chance I would have ever gone to a baseball game had I not seen baseball highlights growing up in South Africa on Gillette World Sports Special.

2:33:55There was no world. And I'm sure someone would say you can't distill baseball down into highlights, but that's how I got it. That's how I got basketball. That's how I got all the sports that I never would have gotten. And so to sort of go back to the thing we were saying just a while ago,

2:34:14the people are being inspired by something. we may not wish for that to be there someone might go you go like no this 60 seconds is not me and it's like that is true but it's the beginning of you and it's a piece of you and it's better than none of you and so for me I go like yeah you know that'll be it yeah I mean it is a bit of an ego of death I think we all have no matter who we are in our life that we realize we're never going to fully be able to be perceived 100 % authentically as we are. So we may as well let that go. Let all this, yeah, the inspiration and how I used to feel. I'm like, no, you don't know the whole story.

2:35:09I'm like, oh, they're never going to know the whole story. I love that. and maybe that's what inspiration is it's taking what they take from from you you know that's how that's exactly no that's that's the most amazing thing that's exactly how I feel every time I'm in business class I'm like no you don't know the whole story but as they pass to go to coach I'm like take this inspiration take this as only Eugene could take a meaningful moment Yo, Tina This was too much fun Thank you It was For real, for real This was just like Too much, too much, too much fun I hope we catch you Backstage on the road Somewhere in a thing But either way Let's just do this again Are you on the tour?

2:35:59I'm sporadically Sporadically Yes, I go where the road takes me Forever there's a road I found myself about to go I like that Are you New York and LA or just? South Africa. You know what's interesting? Maybe I give off this vibe. I have never been LA. People always think I lived there. They think, no. I've been New York, but most of the time, South Africa. Living down in South Africa, just living my life. Crooked politicians in the elephants industry. Thanks, yo. This was fun. This is so fun. You are so good. Yes. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM.

2:36:52The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?

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