Tracee Ellis Ross Isn’t Waiting to Be Chosen

27:02Samir is the editor-in-chief of Harper's Bazaar. Romy is a makeup artist. Karen is a designer that works, you know, for different brands and her own brand. Kevin works with Martha Stewart. My hero. So, but no, I mean, and then I think of my other best friends, Anna is the manager of

27:27vintage stores in Los Angeles. And my other friend Anna is a therapist. So yeah. This is sounding more like your friend group. Yeah. But I've, remember, I've always said this. Yeah. I have a, I don't want to say this in a way that sounds too judgmental, but I'm always suspicious of celebrities that only have celebrity friends. Me too. I just find it weird. I don't understand. You're telling me all your friends. I don't get it. All your friends. Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. It's different if like your friends or celebrities that you've worked with. Yeah. That I understand. You've been on a movie for six months.

28:00Yeah, yeah. You did a TV show for 10 years. But if all your friends. I'm saying all your friends. And then you get new ones as well, by the way. Yeah. I've seen people get new friends along the way. And then their new best friend is also a celebrity. And then they're at their wedding. And the celebrity is there. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The only thing I'll say is that some people that grew up in the business, like that's just who they know. one of my best friends is Kelvin Harrison who played my son in the high note is that the DJ? no oh sorry Harrison Jr oh sorry okay yes and he and I remained just best friends he's like a really close friend who's an actor I was trying to think that you have to think I'm talking about the all you've done good that's what I love about so for instance like Rihanna nope have you ever seen like her it's her peeps When she posts, now she posts more like Fenty stuff and everything.

28:52But when Rihanna used to post her travels. No way. Who's that? It's none of your business. That's who it is. Yeah, the only one we, there's one we know. Yeah. But other than that, and we know her through Rihanna. Yeah. No way. Oh, yeah. No, it's her friends from her friends. That's like one of, I think that's one of the most important things you should try and maintain or keep. Yeah. Is just like people from all walks of life. But it's also something that for me, like my – with my people that have known me forever, that know my family, that know my siblings, like they just know my people, my entire nervous system calms down.

29:29Like there's – you don't have to do anything. You're just yourself. You don't have to be someone. Yeah. You know, and we – when I'm here, go to dinner at their – you know, we cook dinner at someone's house or whatever. Like we're all going over to Kevin's on the 13th. And it's so nice. It's so nice to just be with your people. Kevin's the only guy in this group? He's one of the only guys. There's husbands and stuff. Husbands! Yeah. There's husbands and children. Like Monica, like my best friend Monica from college. Yeah. Monica from college, she had the first kid of the group. He's going to college.

30:04Like we met in college. Does that make you feel like now? It's crazy. I mean, I have so much pride, but also like, Like, we knew each other in college, and now her kid is college-age. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I remember when he came out. Do you know what I mean? Like, I remember the night we went to dinner before he gave— Like, there's, like, so many things like that that are just nutty to me. But then also I have a really big family, and I'm really close with my siblings. Seven. No, there's five of us, and then there's three step-siblings. But the five of us are really close, and all of their kids, we're really close.

30:35So I'm the only one that doesn't have kids in my family. So my older sister, Rhonda, her son is about to turn 17, Raif. He lives here in the city with her. My sister, Chudney, has two kids, Calloway and Everly, who were just here, came to see the play, and came over to the apartment the other day. And then Ross has two kids, Leaf and Indigo, beautiful names. And then Evan has two kids, Jagger and Ziggy. And so there's like— Yeah, it's like a full-on squad. The big squad of a family. That was another thing that blew up my phone is there was a post going around about you that said you were looking for a sperm donor or you had accepted one.

31:16That I was pregnant. That was the weirdest. By the way, I was like, was that a slow news day? Who out of nowhere decided to come up with, and they took a picture of a pregnancy test. My favorite thing was whoever was holding the pregnancy test, everyone underneath was like, those aren't Tracy's fingers. Those aren't her nails. That's not her. Uh-uh. That shit was nuts. I thought that was crazy. I was like, what are you guys talking about? What are you talking about? I never understand things like that. Like, out of nowhere. Was like, like, I, if there had been a picture of me with, like, a bloated tummy, I would have been like, okay.

31:49No, it just was a, just. So, so what I've learned in, in the weeks, you know, or months since that story came out is there are, I don't even know if you call them, like, companies. there's like a bunch of people online who generate fake content is that true? yeah yeah yeah and all they're trying to do is create engagement and they just that's all no they just create fake stories about everyone everywhere but what does that do for them? gets clicks views and clicks look at how much this story it's views and clicks we're talking about it now and it gets aggregated and it goes and it blows up and it blows up and it blows up and they're getting money from it oh really?

32:23yeah you get paid if your tweet gets viewed a certain amount of times you get paid if your Facebook posts get viewed a certain amount of times you get paid so now because we live in a world where clickbait is yeah you're rewarded for attention people now use any means to get attention so you find that's one of many stories about you oh just the one that got popular so you find they'll make up I've seen ones about me that range everywhere from I like retired with my family on an island somewhere you didn't? yeah with my wife and kids I'm like on an island you have a wife and kids? yeah apparently neat and then there's another one where does she seem nice?

33:03that's so nice there's another one my favorite one is like there's a series that does very well on Facebook where I like save people's lives and it does very well on Facebook I'm so done right now I save people's lives oh in what way like rescue them from the water like randomly it'll be like it'll be like let me tell you a story about Trevor Noah that no one else will one day my family and I were in our car and we had just been in an accident the car caught a flame and started burning we thought we were surely going to die I then heard a tapping sound on my window no I looked there was a man beckoning for me to move away he smashed the window then pulled me out then proceeded to pull out every single member of my family and it was Trevor Noah at the end I looked up it was Trevor Noah at first I thought and it's this whole story and then like people in the comments like yeah I knew it was a great guy wow this is so good this is beautiful and I'm just like this is weird that is crazy but you know what it doesn't sound very far fetched I could see you saving someone you are the kind of guy I wouldn't save I wouldn't save a person in America I would save someone everywhere in the world you know what let me explain why let me explain why before you judge me let me explain why I have judged you my lawyers have told me my lawyers have told me they've said in America don't save people if you make that mistake you can lose everything what do you mean?

34:23if you help somebody who is in an accident they can then Sue you And say that you are the reason That they are now Hurt or disabled Paralyzed Or paralyzed Really? Do you have to be famous To avoid that trap? Or just anybody? Anyone No no Really? Hey man I'm being It's something I hate But it's like Because the country's so litigious If you Let's say you Someone's in their car burning And you pull them out If they're injured And let's say they had a spinal injury Their skin peels off Whatever And most of it is in your hand There you go And then they just half Now they're like a zebra Listen You've gone too far Now they're like a zebra.

34:58We've gone into another story. This is, you're wonderful. You, you, you. But this is too far. Okay? Because, yeah, it's okay. And I really enjoy your company. I think he feels wounded. He's picking lint off his pants.

35:21But yeah, they can sue you. That's really interesting. Good to know. They can say you caused the injury. And then you'd have to disprove it. You'd have to go to court. It's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. Wow. Yeah. So you have to be very careful. It's sad, but it's a real thing. Huh. So I would try to save people in almost every country in the world. In America, I would be like, this is risky. It's a tough one. That's very interesting. I mean. Haven't you been told these things? I was told once, if I'm ever in a car that has an accident, I must jump out immediately and just walk away. Not me driving.

35:55Even if you're not driving. Yeah, especially if I'm not, if I'm driving, I have to stay at the scene. Trevor, who's telling you these things? If I'm driving at, Tracy, do you not get the celebrity Snapple that has the facts on the bottom that tells you what to do if you're a celebrity? I've never, I don't drink Snapple, maybe that's why. Does Snapple still exist? It does. It fully exists. No, but this is another thing. You've never been told this? No. Damn. Maybe my, maybe the people I've met in life have just been like ultra cautious or they've just been scamming me. I was told I'll go with ultra-cautious wait do you have more?

36:27no no that's the one I was told if I'm being driven you know like those SUVs come and pick you up yes that car gets into an accident yes get out get out walk away well now I know because otherwise the person will now make it about you not the driver in the car oh so how will they make it about they'll be like because they'll go Tracy Ellis Ross's car hit me and you're like it's not my car and they're like no we'll find a way to make it your thing because you You are the person who has the highest possibility of paying. Like you can pay a high amount of money. Yeah, wasn't there a story of someone who rescued someone from a building and then, or they caught them jumping.

37:06And then they broke their fall. And then that person sued them for breaking their fall. Yeah. I'm shocked you don't know these things. Because of breaking the fall. What's the craziest thing? Surely your mom taught you crazy things that you can and cannot do. First of all, Trevor, please don't use the word your mom. just right now. What must I say? Someone's mom is Diana Ross. No, no, but it is my mom. No, but, Trace, it's okay. I'll take this one. No, no, okay. I can't. I can't.

37:37Go. Okay, go. Oh, my God. Oh, yep. Okay, please. You can just say, oh, so, how must I say it? No, he said it right because we're - You can say, Miss Diana Ross, your mom. No, because - Oh, that's a nice way to say it. Okay, that's nice. Because also we mustn't pretend. No, no, but okay, that's a nice way to say it. That's just for me. I appreciate it. And everyone else who feels like I do. Okay, okay, okay. So Tracy, what were you taught by, were there any lessons you gleaned about the world of fame from Miss Diana Ross, your mom? Is that good? I thought that was good. That's very good. Thank you.

38:15Although I have to say, maybe for the podcast and for you, but like if we were at dinner and you did that, I would punch you. and then he'd have to walk away I would be like Trevor go to your room you'd punch him and then get away so he doesn't sue you exactly exactly and then I'd run so he doesn't sue me good circle back nicely done oh it's funny so not sure about that you see I don't I see the music I don't I did it but then I was like I don't I don't know if I liked it oh man um I don't know if there's some lessons. That's really interesting. I mean, I think there's so many things I learned that I don't know that I learned.

38:57You must have seen. I mean, there's tons. But, you know, because I grew up in this. So it's different than coming into it and then sort of someone giving you lessons. There's many things that I'm very aware of that I know other people are not aware of. Okay. I mean, I scan a room. I can feel and see and know what's happening in a room. I can tell people that are, you know, for example, so I'm doing this play right now. Yeah. Every brilliant thing. And in the beginning of it, in the pre-show, it's an interactive play. So there's... What does that mean? That means that I tell the story with the audience.

39:30No way. Yes. So there are... I'm telling a story and there's a list in the story. And when I say numbers in the list, we've given out cards and people throughout the audience, from balcony to on the stage, say the things that are on the card. And then we also cast five roles from the audience in the pre-show. And we bring, so in that moment, I'm scanning the room along with the three other associate directors. And we are looking for the right people who are willing, who are a little bit reluctant. A little bit reluctant. He would be a no. He lost you. You see how high your arm went. I mean, he didn't even let me finish.

40:11You said willing and your arm was up. Exactly. A little bit reluctant. Almost too high. Timing is too much. And we look for five people who are willing to do five of the roles that make that part of the story better if I do them with someone. Why do they have to be a little bit reluctant? Because the onus on me is to keep the story moving. Okay. And to sort of conduct the room and the energy in the room. If people are too eager and they try to perform or be funny or act, it pulls us into and away from the story. You get people who are going to come to the show to try and make this their audition.

40:49Yeah, ready to act. Yeah, yeah, okay. And it doesn't work. The main thing that we ask of people is to be kind. Everything works if you're kind and if you're open and you're honest and you listen. If you try to perform and be funny and pull the attention, even me, like my job is not, it's not about me. I'm there to be of service to the story. And so in those moments, this is back to the mom thing. Miss Diana Ross. So in the moment of scanning the room, I'm very aware, and this comes from my childhood, I'm very aware of which people are real fans, which people are pulling attention. Like, have you ever been in a room and you can tell people know that you're there and so they start laughing louder because they're being, they're conscious that you're there and they are trying to be comfortable?

41:41I've never caught the laughing one, but there's certain, mine is the opposite, silence. I know when the silence around me is artificial. Yeah. So people just quiet down because now they're listening to your conversation with your friends or whoever you're with. Or they're doing this. Yes. Very casually doing that. So I grew up. You also know because they've been cutting the same piece of steak for like five minutes. You know what happens in a weird way? no it's really strange like people turn into background extras they just oh because they're listening well people get also people just get uncomfortable you know if they haven't seen somebody famous that they you know know from a TV show or from yeah yeah yeah it's always malicious it's understandable yeah you know it's like it's like when you this is what I was liking it to like if there's a guy or someone that you're flirting with you like or whatever and all of a sudden you're like what do I do with my hands like all of a sudden hands are weird All of a sudden your hands become these things that are just like, hello.

42:46Oh, shame. You know, this happened to me yesterday. I was playing pickleball yesterday. And it was like a random session where no one knew anyone. Wait, what? It was a random session where nobody knew anybody. Okay. Do you guys find more ways to make this sport more awkward than it already is?

43:11So the place I was playing at has giant windows that look out onto the street. Have you been there before? Like the street. I know this. The street street. So if you're playing on one court in particular, people are just walking by you in New York. Not one way. Two-way glass. People are walking by you in New York. Someone caught your attention. No. A whole group of people gathered. Shut up. But they were really funny. It was like these kids, it was like, I want to say like eight, like 13-year-old white boys with like fluffy hair. Just like, they looked like they were having a lot of fun. And they came and stood by the window.

43:44And then they saw it was me. So first they were like, oh, it's Trevor. Then they made it like seem like they were watching the U.S. Open. Which made it so funny because it's pickleball. So they were like cheering. They were screaming. Then when a point would go wrong, they'd be like, no. But you can't hear them. That's actually amazing. It was amazing. They were doing the most like extreme version of it. But then the people who we were playing with, shame, there was one kid, because we were in like random rotations. One kid I was playing with, he didn't know what was happening. So he turned to me and he went, Like who are you?

44:15No, I played with. Because I played against him, but I also played with. You're going to get sued. Oh yeah, you're right. Sorry. There was a kid who was on the team that I was on. Thank you. Thank you, Eugene. Thanks, always looking out for me. I've got you. So the kid then, he just turned to me and he went, what is going on? He's like, why do these guys love pickleball so much? That's so cute Yeah but then he couldn't He couldn't play He's like I can't do this This is so distracting Why does that guy Have his shirt off And one of the guys Had his shirt off And was swinging it around And they were cheering That's amazing I wish people would be More like that Just like Just acknowledge it Or be obvious Yeah yeah Be like super super obvious As soon as Tracy Ellis Ross Sits down next to you Just be like Tracy Ellis Ross Just sat down next to me While my dinner Got more interesting They should just do that And then that's out of the way It's out of the way now Now it's out of the way.

45:00I mean, people get uncomfortable. I don't know. I mean, it's such a funny, it's a funny thing. And our culture and American culture is so obsessed with fame in a way that's odd. You know what I think it is? I think it's because America doesn't have royalty. Maybe. I was going to say, because I also think like I was, I took some time to figure out like with sports and professional athletes. Yeah. And I was like, they're modern day warriors. They are. So it's similar to, you know, it's like they're these, these gods that like do this thing. And then I guess celebrities, yes, it's, it's royalty in a way.

45:37It's this, you're, you're held up in this way that you are super. I think this country understands, or the reason why it loves celebrities so much is because it understands that fame is a, it could come to you at any time. So people believe that if they're really good at something. Now I think people believe that. I don't think that always is okay. Now I think they do. I mean, and it can, by the way. You can be that person now. It was, that people, that was unreachable. How did that happen? There's super famous kids that you and I don't know about. What do you mean? But in their world, on YouTube or whatever.

46:06Oh, for sure, for sure. They make a lot of money. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we don't know them. No, no, no. We don't even understand, I don't even understand some of that. I mean, there's people, there were these kids that became famous for like opening up toy boxes. Yeah, yeah, huge. Like massive, massive, massive. Huge following. Yeah, fascinating. Only in America? Ryan, I think is his name. Yeah. Is he still a kid? I actually don't. That's going to be interesting. Who? He opened gifts? Yeah, the kid, yeah. He was massive. Massive, massive, massive. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

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48:57Is this your first time on Broadway? No. My debut. I heard that the other day and I was like, that can't be true. And it's a one-person show. A Tony-nominated one-person show. No. Yeah. It's amazing. Give him the fist bump if you don't want to.

49:13Is this something you do with other people? How is this the first time? The finger touch forces us to engage. Yeah, it's very intimate. And also the attention that is required. Yeah, you have to take a lot of focus. Which is very random. Yeah, no, no. And it's like, you know. But the next level of it is locking in. eye contact. Wow. It's too much. Okay, you were telling us about this. We'll get there. We're not there yet. That's the we've gone too far. No, but congratulations. Thank you. It's been really exciting. Why has it taken you so long is maybe the first thought in my head. And I mean, I mean, I mean, this is a compliment because someone said this to me the other day.

49:51They said, this is Tracy's debut on Broadway. I was like, no, that's wrong. I confidently was like, nope, that's wrong. They were like, no, it is. I was like, nope, that's wrong. It can't be, but it is. I mean, it's interesting. It's felt like coming home in all honesty. That's what I mean. Yeah. I mean, and this play in particular is extraordinary because it uses every aspect of my skill and my ability. Like, there's improv. Okay. There's me telling the story. There's some singing in the middle of it. There's humor. It's a story about mental health and depression and suicide and removing the stigma around that.

50:30So there's that underneath it. Wait, the stigma around committing suicide? Yeah, it's a story about a person whose mother has made multiple attempts. Oh, wow. And in response to that, this seven-year-old comes up with this idea of making a list of everything brilliant about the world. And so it's both heavy, but it's told in this joyous, buoyant, life-affirming way. And it's a really beautiful piece of material. And it's like 75 minutes, 80 minutes. And it's, you know, house lights up. There's audience on the stage with me. It's participation with the entire room. and it's not stand-up because there's a script, but there's an element of that sort of energy and it's glorious.

51:28It's glorious. It seems like you're having fun. I'm having... How long have you been going now? I did a five-week run. I'm in my last week right now. And then it's done? Mm-hmm. Oh, no. Yeah, and... Yes, but oh, no. Yeah, I mean, it's been the perfect amount of time. It's been wonderful. I took about two weeks to learn the material I got to rehearsal pretty much off book and so I had three weeks of rehearsal and when I first started it genuinely felt like swallowing a whale like have you ever tried that? it's a lot I'm trying to understand what that analogy means too much exactly it was just like what is this?

52:07Trevor's like I can swallow a whale what's wrong with you? it's okay it's weird when you've been alive for more than 40 years and then you hear a phrase you've never heard before. Correct. I've never heard it's like swallowing a whale before. I was trying to figure out what it felt like and it felt like trying to swallow a whale and then mama bird it back to the audience like it wasn't a whale. Like it was just the thing that I was delivering. And even though I had learned the material, because of the improv, the novelty of every performance is different, choosing the people, like the whole thing was just like, what and so even in rehearsal you are sort of gaining your way it's so it was i don't even know how to explain it and then by the by the by the second week in rehearsal in the rehearsal space there's 25 people in the room that you don't know and you're all of a sudden doing the play bringing these people those people in and so it was just like i felt like every cylinder was firing and then you get into the theater at the end of your third week of rehearsal.

53:17And on Broadway, I didn't know this was a thing, but your dress rehearsals are called invited dress. And they invite other Broadway people who can't necessarily go to other shows because they're doing shows. And my dress rehearsals are at different times. Industry nights. But it's during the day, like they're weird times when there aren't shows. and the first dress rehearsal had 150 people. The second dress rehearsal had 400 people. Jeez. And then all of a sudden, it's the first night and the theater's full and you're like, here we go! And I felt like I was flying with my feet on the ground. Oh, damn, that was crazy.

54:00Where did that come from? Who was that? And then on a second, here we go! Oh, that was so brilliant. Yo, that was so good. It was like nuts. I was like, okay, and we're off. Have you done animation? Yes. Okay, thank God. Thank God. I was hoping, I was like, surely there's like every different platform, I would hope, has reached out to you. Which animation did you do? Huh? Which show? Oh, God. I did Rugrats at one point. No way. I did a fun, silly role on there. I did a series recently that I had so much fun doing. I don't know why I can't think of what it's called. I'm about to do another one right now, a really fun one.

54:46I think I've done about five things. The series I did, what was that series called? I loved it. What were you doing in it? I was playing like a blob. And it was, God, what was that called? Rachel, what was that called? Rachel, what was it called? Where's Rachel? Where's Rachel? Rachel is just what Tracy says when she can't think of an alter ego. Rachel's my alter ego. Rachel, what was the call? They challenge Tracy's AI. That series was so fun. And I played a... Yeah, it was like a blob. I also just did another one that isn't out yet about the planets. That was fantastic. That is all about the relationship of the solar system.

55:32The solar system, yeah. But we're, you know, humanized. And I played, I want to say I was Saturn. I don't know. And I had a really funny voice. You always seem like you're having fun. I enjoy what I do. No, genuinely. Like every time I... I mean, otherwise, what's the point? I've never asked you this, but like how do you keep finding the fun? How do you keep enjoying it? How do you keep... Some of it's gratitude. Yeah. I feel grateful to be able to do what I love. You know, I run a business. I have a beauty company and I'm a CEO and founder and I'm day to day in that business. But this is like a real company.

56:09No, no, no. Like a real. No, no. I'm just saying this because you know some people. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Are founders and CEOs. Yeah, yeah. Of nothing. Yes. And I say this with respect to them. Every time someone says that, there's no respect included. Because if it was respectful, we need to mention the respect. No, but sometimes. But a lot of people say CEO and founder. And the next thing it's not. But they are the only person in the business. Yeah, they're just an IP address and then... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, no, this is like a real thing. How many years has Patten been going now? We're about to be seven.

56:39And, you know, we have 11 retail partners and... It's kind of huge now. Yeah, it's really, it's a, you know, a booming company and it takes a lot of work. So there's that part of my life and I'm very good at that. And I love it. And I love being a boss lady and I love going to the office. And I love that kind of solution work that I do. And the creativity that's in that. for me because the marketing and branding is really my, and storytelling and visual language, that is really my wheelhouse. And I love that. But every time I get to be an actor, every time I get to play, to have a sense of play, to use my imagination, to be this like, you know, just creature who is not afraid of anything and just has complete liberation within my body and my mind and all of that.

57:26And, and to just do that, I am lit up in a way that I cannot explain. And I'm so grateful. I mean, also, you know, I'm a black actress in Hollywood. It's not like they throw in parts at me. Do you know what I mean? It's, that's not the way this business works. And still, I mean, I get great work. Do you know what I mean? But it's still, it's a thing, you know, you got to figure it that it's a thing. And so when I, and, and I do say no to things now, Like, you know, it's wonderful. Some of it is pattern. Like I've been able to, I have, you know, an income and I have made good money and I don't have to do things to uphold my life.

58:02And that is wonderful. And I say thing, I say yes to things that either not for financial reasons all the time. Sometimes it's just that it like lights me up. You know what I mean? Like, it's just something I really want to do or try. and I just feel grateful. I love it. I love being a human. I love what being an artist and an actor allows me to do as a human to touch other people's humanity. I love being silly. You know what I mean? Like I always say to people, like when it comes to dating, one of the things I'm like, you can't think that I'm going to be the prize on your arm and be that thing where in my life I get to fly like an eagle every day and be as big as I want to be and as small as I want to be and as sexy as I want to be.

58:51Like, to do all this and then I'm just going to cook it. Like, you know, and don't get me wrong. Like, I'm a caretaker and I'm going to cook for you and all those kind of things. But not because you expect it, not because you want it. Just because that's part of who you are. You're not going to put me in a box and just be a little thing over here. Like, I'm a full planet. Does that make dating hard? You're a solar system. I don't know. Yeah, I'm a solar system. Yeah, I don't think you're a planet. I think I'm a solar system. Yeah. And I don't know that it makes dating hard. It does. You think it does?

59:19A hundred percent. Why? I think what you've just explained is what a potential partner sees. Can I tell you? What you've just explained is what you've just, no, but also what you've said. One of the greatest pieces of advice I got too late in my life, but I wish everyone got, was from Esther Perel. she was a guest on the podcast and she said the number one thing she would encourage people to do is date as friend groups and i was like what do you mean oh and she said one of the worst mistakes people make is they go on dates as individuals and when you're on that date you're only seeing one side of the person because it's it's a very natural thing it's not like you know it's not always like people are pretending or not pretending but it's very difficult to be all sides of yourself when you are with one person.

1:00:08But they said, like, if you go out as groups of friends, like, literally, she said, people should try their best to go, hey, me and my friends are going to do this. Would you like to bring some of your friends and we're going to hang out? She said, you'll be shocked at how quickly you get to know the person. Like, really, really quickly. That's actually sweet. Because the other person can't hide themselves when all their people are around. No, you can't. So you'll see them. Like, you might be shy with strangers, but when you're with your friends, you really come alive. you might be nice with strangers and with your friends the asshole you're an asshole yeah and that thing you know to what you're saying now it reminds me of that idea I get what Eugene is saying because if somebody meets you as Tracy in one dimension yeah yeah yeah in one planet of your solar system and they have met you yes I can see them I can see them going oh this is who she is all the time and then the boss lady comes up and they're like whoa I'm a little intimidated by that yeah Wait she can just go to Europe When she wants to Yeah Like I've always wondered that genuinely Especially when it comes to Ultra successful women Is how much harder it is to date But I think ultra Because men Men can be very insecure About being with an ultra successful woman Because what do I bring to the table?

1:01:23No but that I think that cuts across everyone I think what ultra successful And famous people take for granted Yeah Is the fact that Their potential partner wants what a normal partner would want. They want exclusivity. And so do I. Yeah, they want to be with... But also, if you're ultra-famous, people already know you. And they've already known you before you knew them. They can't pretend they've never seen you before. Interesting, yeah. So they want a side of you that has never been... The guy who played pickleball didn't know who Trevor was. But he was a 14-year-old kid. Don't date him. This is not appropriate, Trevor.

1:01:56For me or for you. Sorry. I don't know where that went from. I just, I'm sorry. I realized it was not what I thought. You see the comedian. I thought he was a grown person. So when you said that, I was like, oh, no. Don't, that is a no. You see what I mean now. This is what I mean. That was so funny. I had not pictured him as a 14-year-old. No. Oh, I'm sorry. That's so funny. I should have painted the. For some reason, when you were painting the picture, I didn't picture him that way. So when you said that, I was like, ah, no. Sorry. Okay. The exclusivity thing is, it's an interesting. That's interesting.

1:02:30It's an interesting, interesting idea. And also, you're loved by more. Like, I mean, you know, if you're dating me and then I put up a bathing suit picture and Trevor's getting text. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's interesting. Who do you think it's been easier for you to date? Civilians or fellow celebrities? I've not really dated fellow celebrities a couple of times. No, no, I have a little bit. But not so much. I don't know. I mean, I feel like right now there's a question. I'm like, should I be dating? like because I'm 53 I'm like should I be dating like a 62 year old man?

1:03:03No. He's so quick with his answers. No, no, no. He's already like because he believes he believes in. No, no, I know but so here's the question then. Make my profile like what are we doing? Like go. Maybe like at a stretch 45. At a stretch what? Yeah, if you like I'm dating someone who's old at your age and your looks and your ability but 62 is not and your effervescence I have effervescence. It will overwhelm any 61-year-old. Really? Yeah, you should be with someone who's a sprightly. This guy said sprightly. I know, I know, I have to move it away. This guy said sprightly. I moved it away like it was him.

1:03:45Sprightly, get the fuck out of here. I'm not dating. Oh, my God. I don't know. I mean, I've dated younger guys. There we go. And that's been interesting. And then sometimes it's not. I mean, it's individual. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's always individual. I, men my age often, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's individual. Every guy is different. I will tell you. Finish your sentence first. No. Men your age. No, I'm not doing it. I'm not going to do it. But what I will say is there are really great guys out there. I'm not going to, I'm not one of those women who's like, I don't know.

1:04:20Like, I don't agree with that. I think there's really great guys out there. I think my thing is, think of how many people I know like me. Not so many. So maybe it'll take some time for me to meet the person that's a match for me. I don't know. I mean, how many people are out in the world like you? You're pretty unique. I don't know you well enough to say that about you. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to leave you out, but I know Trevor decently well. You're a great guy. No, no, no. You're not the other hand. You're the other hand. I don't know you. You just discovered heirloom potatoes, man.

1:04:54Helloom tomatoes. Yeah, and you use words like sprightly. And you make me do things like this. I don't know. I don't know you yet, okay? I don't know if you're going to end up with any more than that. I don't know you, okay? But I know him, and what he said was... Okay, so I'll tell you, this is what I've learned for myself and from my life. It's interesting. I was having a conversation. I was in Sweden. I was in Stockholm. I was at some random dinner. It was an event with business people, actors, blah, blah, blah. Just a real smorgasbord, as they say, of people, right? And I was sitting next to this woman who's just like, man, you want to talk about a boss lady?

1:05:40Like, has connected everyone in the world of business and she's run successful businesses. She's like killed it. You know, she's like vacations on yachts and like full on, full on. You can even tell how far I'm from her because I say yachts. Because rich people say boats. That's what I've learned. Yeah. If you've grown up with money, you say boats. To you, it's a boat. If you haven't grown up with money, you say yachts. I say yacht. That is correct. That exposes how I grew up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I haven't like internalized money. It is a tell. But when you've grown up around money, you say boat always.

1:06:11Do you want to join us on Gerald's boat? And the boat could be as big as a city. It will be as big as a city. But it's a boat. Yes. You always say boat when you have money. And you've grown up in money is the important thing. When you haven't, you'll say yacht. So anyway, as she would say, she's on boats. I was like, oh, she vacations on yachts. So we're talking, we're talking, we're talking. And then she said to me, it was really interesting because we were having this conversation. And then she said, I feel like I'm a failure in life. I was like, this is strange. You've just told me about the greatest list of accomplishments ever.

1:06:42What do you mean you think you're a failure? And she said, well, I'm 60, 62 years old. I, you know, my kids are amazing and they love me and we vacation all the time and they're great and they're doing well and my businesses are doing well. and like, you know, my friends and my ventures and everything I touch turns to gold. But I just, I can't find the person for me. And, you know, it feels like love is a story that I will never, you know, complete. And I feel like a failure. That's hard, hard perspective. Yeah, but it was interesting because I said to her, I said, maybe it's because it's so clear to me because you're saying it from the outside.

1:07:20But I found it interesting that she was willing to define her entire life. Through that. Through one lens alone. when every other metric, and I mean every other, she's in shape, she's healthy. But you know I've done speeches about this. Really? Oh, yeah. But that's societal. She's pushing up against a societal norm and a cultural and a patriarchal and misogynistic norm that is, even if you don't know that's what you're fighting against, that's what you're fighting against. The thing that defines your value as a woman. Yeah. Who wants you. Yeah. Oh, damn. And I won't subscribe to it. I don't. My life is wonderful.

1:08:03And I experience loneliness and all of it. And I want a partner. And I might not find one. I don't know. You know? And I'm not going to make that mean something about me. I'm not going to decide that because I – and, you know, and then the other thing is on Girlfriends, I talk about this all the time. But on Girlfriends, for eight years, 173 episodes, I was a successful woman who couldn't find a partner and was waiting to be chosen. And I didn't realize it, but when I left the show, I have spent years, and I talk publicly about it now because I didn't realize how much I had spent years waiting to be chosen.

1:08:42And I started to realize, I'm like, what the fuck? I'm the chooser. I can choose my partner. And I can choose. I don't have to sit around being a prize, making a life so that I get chosen. I'm also the person looking for a partner. And society tells women that that's our worth, that having children. And I mean, not everywhere, but that is. Yeah, yeah, for the most part. And finding a partner. I mean, and then it's the thing that people ask you all the time. And I'm like, oh, my God, why are we so interested in this? You know what I've noticed, though? It's similar to alcohol. people press you until you say you went too far and you've stopped but if you just say I'm not drinking so if you go people will press would you like a drink and you go I don't drink alcohol they go like why not why do you don't want to drink but if you say I stopped people are like oh oh oh oh same thing with your relationship status if people say are you single are you married you say no never married you've never been no but if you go like yeah divorce and then people go oh I understand I understand It's okay.

1:09:47Yeah. You have, okay, okay. Or here's my favorite. You know, I'm 53, but like for a while there, there was, have you ever thought about having children? No, never thought about it. I'm so glad you brought it up. Should we talk about it now, you and I? Should we talk about what? Well, let's get into it. What the fuck are you asking me? Never thought about it. I'm so glad you brought this up, sir. I'm so glad you brought this up. I never thought it. Do you think, what is, I mean, is it time? Do I do it now? What are we doing? Man, I would hate to meet you on the wrong day in the wrong setting. your brain because you see that's what I mean you're the perfect combination you're fine on all cylinders yeah but like she's too smart and too funny to not eviscerate you now imagine meeting this person randomly out of blind bags and stepping on the wrong landmine it's finished bro you're finished and you don't know what happened and I'm laughing I'm like can I tell you a really funny story about a famous a very famous comedian yes who came on I'm gonna make it as vague as I can so that no one feels called out who came on I was on a show that I, it was my show.

1:10:47Yeah. And came and was doing a funny bit and decided in front of everyone to try and viscerate me with his comedy. Hoo-wee. Tried to think that the pretty girl who was, this was back in the day. Nobody really knew what I was capable of or not. But, you know, when I get pushed into a corner, I. You have that. Yep. It's going to happen. and so I with humor on camera in front of everybody and it was my house you know what I mean I eviscerated him and I was like and then when I walked away I was like wow that was harsh but I was like he did it to me first yeah no no no that thing but you know when two standard comedians don't put us don't put us in the corner don't do that I've seen people do it with Eugene where I watch and I see Eugene's eyes like slowly like build and I'm like oh goodness oh goodness you'll get him on no I've seen you You'll get Eugene on like a chill day.

1:11:43And then you get like random people who are like, look at this. What's up with that shoe? And you look like a... And they start like... And you just see Eugene like sitting there like... You know what it reminds you of? A fighter. That's what I... Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying. These are lethal weapons. Yes. But like he's in the movie and he's that guy who like stopped fighting long ago. And he's just sitting there. And guys are like, hey man, you're going to get up? You're going to do something? And he's just there like... He's like, don't make me do it. Breathe. Breathe. And then when your gene starts, you're like, you have that.

1:12:12But I think we all have that. Yeah. If you have like a comedic, like real, it's not about being funny. No, no, no, no. I'm not a funny person. It's not that. You have this thing where it's like, oh man, don't put me in a corner. That version of Trevor, I call him the Shabin Queen. Yeah, he does. The Shabin Queen. Yeah. So in South Africa, we had Shabins, Taverns. I don't think. Speakeasy. Speakeasy vibes. Okay, okay, yeah. Like in America. But it's funny. In black America, you had it as well. where it was like the woman who ran the underground, the juke joint, I think it was called. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:12:45Yes. And they ran it. And they had a comeback for every drunk man in there. They had a line for the cops. They had a, like, they were ready all the time. Eugene calls me that. He calls me a Shabin Queen. He's like, you don't want Trevor Shabin Queen to come out. That's fantastic. Because I'll be very chill. And then at some point I'm like, all right, all right. But also, you know, what I love about you, Trevor, Which is similar to me Is that your humor is kind Yeah I don't try I'm not that person either I'm not mean at all Don't push me in a corner man You will lose Don't put baby in a corner Don't put baby in a corner I was yeah I mean And also they don't always expect it from a woman No never Don't press anything We've got more What Now after this.

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1:15:12Girlfriends. Yeah. Why didn't Girlfriends get the mainstream acclaim it deserves? You think of the time period. Think of what was happening then. So it was 90s, and it was very segregated television at the time. Was it really? Oh, yeah. So I'll give you my perspective, just so you understand why I'm so confused by this. In South Africa, Girlfriends was one of the biggest sitcoms on television. Really? So in our world, in my world, in fact, when I hear people talk about shows like Friends, I don't say this with any disrespect. Not disparagingly. I'm not just saying this disparagingly. But I go, what bullshit are you coming with telling me that this is the greatest sitcom of all time?

1:15:49I like him. He means no disrespect. No, no. Yo, I grew up with Friends and girlfriends and all of these came on around a similar time. So I was watching them back to back. Granted, I was much younger, but still on the same level. Yeah, and we didn't have the hierarchy that American TV had. So Family Matters and Full House were like, let's go, baby. Back to back. Back to back. Same channel. Really? Yeah, so there was no like, oh, this is, there was no indicator. That's so interesting. Which is a mixed bag of similar sitcoms. So there was no indicator that one should be perceived in a way differently to the other.

1:16:25So for me, I remember watching Girlfriends going, the comedy, the situation, the elements of the story, what is being defined here. That to me was revolutionary. But it was never credited with the revolution, which was weird to me. No. And it's been given that in hindsight. Oh, it has? A little bit. Okay, good. But we certainly didn't have it back then. No. I mean, never had gotten, no talk shows, no Tonight Show, no David Letterman, no Emmys, had never been to the Emmys. You are lying. Had never been to any. You were never asked on a late night show? No, as a matter of fact, I have a story. It was Jay Leno and I had girlfriends and the comment was, we love Tracy.

1:17:13Call us when she gets something. While on girlfriends? Oh, yeah. And I was like, I remember thinking, get what? Like, what else do you have to get? I don't know. And it just was not, we love her, but it was not considered. And the other thing was, I remember, this I remember specifically, the show Monk. Do you remember that show with Tony Shalhoub? that show had a quarter of our viewership a quarter of our viewership and I remember seeing him on the show and I was so confused and I was like I don't understand is it viewership and the only thing you can boil it down to you're like is it just racism like I don't like I'm not sure how to like how do you categorize it like I don't know what it is um never went to the Emmys the first time I went to the Emmys was on Black-ish yo this is crazy yeah this is like this is to me this is mind-blowing so yeah because they all existed in the same yeah and and ignorantly because we're in south africa we're just watching this going these are all the same that's really they all occupy the same level so interesting i've never heard that before that thank you for sharing quality um the show was great prestige all of it so we didn't we at no point watched any of these shows and thought that they were not of the same caliber whatsoever it was really interesting to me when i came to america and wait why girlfriend and then it was like almost only black people knew about girlfriends and by the way when i first did blackish i remember i first went in to do my uh looping session like you know for voiceover or whatever with the stuff the lines that weren't working and i remember the team was like an old school like um tv like um veterans okay yeah and the guy was like, my God, I mean, it's like, it's like you've done this before.

1:19:02Oh, God. And I said. Eugene and I talk about that all the time. And I said, I said, no, but, but, but I have. And he was like, I mean, but it's not like you were on a comedy. And I said, no, I was on a comedy. He's like, I know, but it's not like you were a lead. And I was like, no, but I was. He's like, well, it's not like it was network. And I swear to God. Who is this guy? Exactly. And I said, no, but it was. And he was like, but it wasn't primetime. I mean, he kept going. It was like a cum. Exactly. And I was like, but it was. And he was like, oh, I see. What was it called? Oh, wow. And I was like, girlfriends.

1:19:36And he was like, I'll have to look that up. Wow. And I remember thinking, wow, it's like we were just not even, it didn't even exist. But, you know, again, back to my gratitude. I'm like, but I had eight years. I started on girlfriends. I was pretty talented. You know what I mean? I thought I was pretty whatever. But I became a seasoned actress. I became a, you know, 173 episodes. Yeah, you're okay. You learn how to do it. And it's different than movies, but it's a real thing. You learn, you become a veteran. I had an opportunity to do 173 episodes of a show. It's no joke. And then I did 170 some odd episodes of Black-ish.

1:20:2216 years of my life on shows. 16 years. I'm like, girl, that's okay career. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, for real. Like that blows my mind. And I remember after Girlfriends, I remember Christina Applegate. She had her third, so it was Married with Children. And then there was the third show. Her and Julia Louis-Dreyfus were two actresses that I was like, I want that career. I want that. I wonder if a black woman could get that. I wonder if I could do that. I've done it. That's. I mean, it's pretty, it blows my mind. Like at 53, you know, you take stock, you look at things and you're like, okay.

1:21:01Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can imagine. And I just go, wow. And then even with this Broadway show, you know, it came to me. It just felt like a divine moment. And I'm like, I didn't go looking for it. And it came to me and I thought, wow, in this chapter of my life, which is such a beautiful chapter at 53 years old, to experience something that like is a dream. A dream. My first time on Broadway, a one-person show, a Tony-nominated show that I didn't ask for. And I came in here and I'm like, what a treat. Like, look at this. I'm still working. This is great. This explains it now. You sound like how I sound inside whenever I'm doing something.

1:21:41Just like, what? No, no, no. Can I tell you? You know what's funny is you have that. one of the greatest gifts in my life is how Eugene reminds me to do that about like the world. I'm good at doing that for like work things. Strangely enough, I've struggled to do that with the world. I understand that. So Eugene is the person who'll go, man, do you ever appreciate all these trees that we get on our walk? Oh. And I'm genuinely like, I'm never actually, yeah, I'm in the trees. And it's like, Eugene's like, no, man, look. yo, look at these trees. That's really. And I'm like, okay. He's like, yo, look at, I mean, look at the, wow.

1:22:22Look at that river there. I can't believe that river just flows like this. I am very much that person. Yeah, so, but you have, I would argue, the super combination of us. Because I can do it with like work things. I always appreciate. He's around the corner very quickly. I have to remind him on the work things. And then he has to remind me on the life things. But even when I've been with you, when we're in an art gallery, a museum, at dinner you have that's a really now it it actually explains it to me now I've always wondered how you are so not just normal but radiant but I I wonder where you get where do you think you got it from I think I was born with it I do I think I came out with a I mean my middle name is Joy and my mom said no way you want to know what my middle name is what Which means?

1:23:16Joy. There you have it, folks. I want you to know I a little bit feel like E.T. when we do it. That's exactly what it comes from. From one species to another.

1:23:32Fantastic. Oh, joy. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, you know, I also know that for me, the capacity I have for joy is matched on the spectrum with the capacity I have for darkness. Oh, interesting. You know, I... Say more. I just, that full spectrum of who I am. Yeah. But the truth is my genuine temperament is joy. That is... Okay, that's your... It's my default. The way I think of it is, like I always think of like people like coins when we're spinning. There are two ways the coin can spin. It can be spinning almost silently and balanced. And then it can be spinning like in a wobbly. And I go like, you want to be your ideal spin.

1:24:19But there's also the other side of your spin, which is like, it's still going, but it's like, roll, roll, roll, roll. Okay, I hear what you're saying. So your default. Yeah, my default is joy. I ran at a pace of anxiety for many, many years of my life. And I don't anymore. I mean. When did it stop and what changed it? I've said this to him the other day. About you or about him? About myself, yeah. Yeah, you've settled. Yeah, there was a time. How old are you? 45 this year. Yeah. Wait, what changed? 100%. All the work I've done. Yeah, but something must have changed. I want to dig and understand this because I think it's valuable selfishly to me, but to anyone else.

1:25:03What clicks? Some people won't hit that until 70. Some people don't hit that until their deathbed. Some people never hit it. So my question is, what changed? Because you had, like you just said, eight years on a primetime show, eight years on another massive show. I was terrified and anxious through Girlfriends. Okay. Not comfortable in my skin. Yeah. I've done a lot of work that has felt like chewing on ground glass in the attempt to get comfortable being where I am and trusting that I'm okay. And that has been hard earned. And it's something, it's a daily reprieve, you know. Yeah. And then blackish, I started to settle.

1:25:53I think I became a woman during Girlfriends, but I didn't have time to integrate who I had become. And then I spent years, you know, thinking the pearly gates of Hollywood were going to open. They didn't. And having to self-generate my own sense of creativity and ambition and make my own way. I spent my childhood tangled in the rainbow of my mother's extraordinary light. Yeah, right. Also in her embrace, not in her shadow, in her embrace. I've never felt, but it fanned a flame for me to figure out who I am. I felt like a fraud if I just enjoyed her attention. Okay, that's interesting. I needed to know who I was.

1:26:45and fill up my own light and my own planet and my own system, you know? And then Black-ish has been extraordinary. It was an extraordinary experience for me, and that partnership with Anthony was something. I found a sense of safety and an ability to explore my gifts and my talents in a way that I hadn't before. Pattern occupied something for me. I felt like I built something that meant something that had purpose. Pattern was the first thing that I made that was just absolutely mine.

1:27:26What was that? What do you want to do? There's a thing that you want to do? No, I was saying this to Eugene literally in the car on the way here. I said to Eugene, one of the things we take for granted in life is that we very seldom have been asked the question, what do you want to do what do you want to do and people be like no people also hey what do you want no no not casually i mean like in in the in the meaningful moments of your life how many times we take it for granted literally from the beginning of our lives when you're a child you are very lucky if your parents or carers whoever caregivers say what do you want to do and really mean it.

1:28:07What would you like, if you have all your agency, what would you like to do? And then facilitate it, not a platitude. And then you look at it like when you're older, what would you, and then you become an adult. Your work doesn't ask you what would you like to do. The things you do in life don't ask you what would you like to do. And it's interesting, as you keep moving through life, when you stumble upon it, you go, oh, this is the first time it was what I wanted to do. Not where I was pulled, not what I was offered. Not what I'm good at. Yeah. What do you want to do? Talent can be a trap. Yeah, absolutely.

1:28:48That's really interesting. Yeah, then people assume that just because you have it, you must use it. Then they give you what they think is good for you. And then you start feeling ungrateful for not taking what they think is good for you. It is, especially, I think, I don't know if it's the same as a man, as an African man, but as a woman, to not take what you're offered. Same. And as a black woman, it's like, it takes a lot to learn how to do that. It's the same? Yeah. Same, same, same. I think it's layered for us because it's like, one, you've got the color side of things. So remember in South Africa, we saw the first generation of non-white TV or public anything, right?

1:29:31Wow. Comedy wasn't legal in the country before 1994. So there wasn't even like a comedian that you could like look up to. That wasn't a concept as a child. So that's why the American TV we saw was so formative because it was like, oh, that's a thing. And then people laugh. That's profound. You know? But when we entered those spaces for the first time, the custodians were still generally white people who, without realizing it at times, still approached you with an attitude of, Hi. Wow, well, you're lucky to be here. There was that feeling. And so I think that still has. And then, I mean, I know for us sharing this, like coming from very modest backgrounds, there's also that element where it's like you should be grateful for everything even if you do not wish for it to be.

1:30:27Oh, yeah. I mean, the politics of gratitude are intense as a black person. Intense. So you just have to be, you have to, have to, have to, have to, have to, have to. But then what people don't realize is gratitude isn't gratitude when it's forced. No. It's very different. Then that's a compliance. Yeah, that's acknowledgement. I can acknowledge what I have. to be grateful for it is different yeah it's very different so people will say like i'm grateful for everything you must work no no i get that but then you i genuinely believe sometimes you're just acknowledging that you have it being grateful for it is is the difference it's like it's the difference between eating something and being full and tasting and savoring something going to be in the actual that to me is gratitude is to go wow what a delicious i'm sorry where's this from you know it's like it's that you just said the word compliance which is really interesting in that context gratitude as i think that's in the politics of gratitude is there's a sense of compliance it's like it is a um a way to be deferential and to say yes i'm grateful for what you've given me as opposed to this sense of being of this is what is mine yes yeah this is what I'm, this is what I'm worth.

1:31:40This is me as a human being. You can, whatever you're doing out there, but this is, and I think that is what shifted for me, a sense of belonging to myself, a sense of belonging to myself and, and also to my humanity, which I think is something that I've grown into and discovered. And having a sense of that for myself has allowed me, not every moment, I mean, you know, I'm human, but it really has allowed me to be inside my life in a different way that I'm deeply grateful for. Yeah. See, that's beautiful. That's the way it is. That to me is Tracy. Now your friendship makes sense to me. These two?

1:32:35You two. Yeah, these two. It makes so much sense. Yeah. It's so complimentary. I mean, it's so funny. Trevor, I think you know this. I don't know. But like, I don't, you know, I've gone to your house for dinner. Yeah. And like, that's not something I do. Like, I don't, I'm not. I don't have people over. Yeah. No, you know what I mean? He will tell you this. Yeah. Even you saying you've been to my house for dinner is like a, some people who know me will be like, what? By the way, same thing with me. The people that have been to my house for dinner, I'm like, people are like, oh, so and so, maybe I can come over.

1:33:05I was like, no. No. No. No, maybe I can join dinner. I don't think so. I'm so, like, I just don't, you know, I don't do that. And there are certain people that you go, oh, that feels safe. That'll be good. This is a real person. Like, it's always your same friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And by the way, the guy, like, we share now makes the food, you know? So, and those are things that, like, I don't take for granted. In this industry that we're in, you know, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of bells and whistles. There's a lot of fun. It's nice. It's fun. I love to enjoy it and all that kind of stuff.

1:33:44But then there's something different, you know. And I'm grateful for those touchstones that do exist that you see. You know, we see each other at events. You're like, I know him. You know, that's a good one. But, you know, the business is funny. Yes. And it will take what it can from you. I think life is like that the business is an amplified version of it but I think life is like that that's true and in life I'll often say this you know like now I'll be asked to like talk to high school kids or whatever go and do these things I'm like what am I doing because I still feel like a high school kid keep that forever but genuinely one of the only pieces of advice I'll give them is something I wish I had when I was younger and that is I go choose your friends by how they make you feel.

1:34:34Yes, Trevor. That's like the big one. Trevor, you want to do it? No, that's his thing. There's rock, paper, scissors.

1:34:44No, like choose your friends. But it's true. By the way, this is also what I say about dating. I always say to people, when you leave that date, ask yourself how you feel. Yeah, even when you're on it. Ask yourself how you feel. Not what you're doing, not what he looks like. No. No. How do you feel? Did you feel small? Did you feel like yourself? Exactly. Did you feel like all those things? Because people forget to ask themselves those questions and they don't check in. Yeah. And then you're like in a relationship and you're like, yeah, well, how did he make you feel on the first date? Yeah. The thing I say to people is you should never take for granted that every part of you is you.

1:35:23Right? I've always, like I shouldn't have, but I've like, I fought with a few like gurus and monks. I have, man. He just said I fought with, maybe that's what's going on. I have, I have. No, I have. I'm dead. You know me, bro. You know me too well. Because there's something I don't agree with or I don't understand or I think it could be like clarified. I'll say it. There's like a few gurus and monks who'll be like, you know, there's one who was like, you are not nervous. That is not a part of you. That nerves is an external one. And I was like, yo, man. I was like, yo, I don't agree with you. I was like, no, you are nervous.

1:36:03All of these things are a part of you. The difference is there's a state that you are most, not comfortable, but you're sort of vibrating at your best frequency. I call it my favorite part of me. Yeah, that's the best way to put it. Your favorite part of you. and so when I'm when I think about my life Outside Eugene? Yeah, you're going who are the people in my life who in some way, shape or form remind me of that person so even when I'm not them they sort of go like Hey, hey Hey, where are you? Then you're like, oh yeah Okay, that's a nice thank you without judging you without pushing you without pressuring you and there's even like work that you will do or activities that you will do that will remind you of that part of you and those things, like everything you've said, clicks.

1:36:53It's funny you say this. I haven't asked her about this because I mean, it's not like we're like friends and speak. But from the few conversations I've had with Rihanna, she had like that like, and I don't say this in a familiar way, honestly, but she just like, She's real. She may have always had it, but man, you cannot deny that Fenty like, it just, because what it does is, it's exactly what you said about Patton. depending on who you are in life, depending on where you are in life, you may feel like you are always in a position where you are waiting on. So you're waiting for a train to stop and pick you up.

1:37:31You're waiting for the bus to stop and pick you up. You're always waiting for the thing. You're always on the platform. And then if you're lucky enough, you get to build your own station and you're the one now. You're the conductor. You're the conductor. Yeah. You know what's interesting about Rihanna? I mean, I really enjoy her. not necessarily personally but I remember when she did the halftime show I saw something I'd never seen that's what I'm saying yes she was like we had never seen it a black woman who at the height that she's at and who she is do it in this way of like I'm not giving you guys all of me I'm going to give you what I want to give you and I'm doing this I don't even know how to describe it Here's what it felt like to me.

1:38:18It felt like Rihanna was saying, I'm happy to be here, but you are also happy to have me here. Yes. So the halftime show is not me coming to peddle my wares. It's not me coming to. It's so beautiful. It's a showcase. And I'm enjoying this showcase. And I'm having fun. Yeah. And I'm like hitting my little, you know what I mean? It's like, and she had, you're not wrong. It wasn't like a, please go out and buy my records. And this is why you should love me as a performer. This is why there was none of it. Oh, she was like, ah, ah, ah, ah. And then she whipped open that Fenty mirror. And I was like, girl.

1:38:50Come on, man. It was so beautiful. Watching her is so beautiful in a way that we don't talk about it enough. No, it really is. But I really, it's really beautiful. And it teaches us something when we see it. You can even see it in her interviews. Look at her interviews when, before she has Fenty and people are asking her about when the new music is coming out. Look at how she responds. and then look at her interviews when Fenty's come out and they ask her, where's the new music? Previously, she would have like a slightly like apologetic, like, oh yeah, you know, I'm working on it and we're trying to find, yeah, you know, the album and we're getting the, you know.

1:39:27And then after Fenty, people ask her, yo, the music? She's like, yo, bro, relax with that question. The music will come when it comes. She's just got like a, not an asshole, but she's like, no, man, why are you doing this? The music will come when it comes. The same way we can't ask Sade, when's the music coming out? if Sade comes back she comes back if she doesn't she doesn't but it's it's something I wish for everyone in life in any part of your life I agree it's just the ability you said it you said it articulately to feel like you belong in yourself that's it you see it in her and it's beautiful I really love it yeah I really it's that Super Bowl moment was something very special for everybody no man but crazy Especially from a black woman.

1:40:14This is lovely. This is you. You are lovely. Come on, one more. Also, when he does it, he goes. Yeah. It's really good. I'm channeling all the energy. Oh, is that what you're doing? He like focuses it. Do you have a show tonight? I do. Yeah, I have a show tonight. I don't want to let you. What's your pre-show routine? I don't want to like. I usually, I like to be there an hour and a half before we open the doors because I'm in the audience for the door opening. And I do vocal exercises. What do you do? Lip trills? I do trills. I do hums. I do ha-ha-has. Do you do the blowing straw? No. Okay. I do ha-ha-has.

1:40:54I had two weeks, about 10 days where I was sick as a dog. You're lying in the middle of the run. And I had to keep going. No. Let me tell you something. No understudy. No. It's just me. No. First of all. I could have come on and I could have done it. You could have, by the way. I could have come and done Tracy. No one would have known. I could have come and done Tracy. I would have been like, you guys haven't seen me in person. You don't know. That's what I look like. I look like Trevor Shaw. I do. But I will tell you, it's fascinating what your body can do when it's sick. You can still do it.

1:41:20Yeah. But what is crazy is the show I did with a fever, it felt like a fever dream. Yeah, you have no memory of it. I was like, wow. But my body knows what it's doing. It's done the show enough. Yeah. It does it. And it was still a great show. But boy, did it feel fucking wonky. Oh, yeah. And then for a minute there, I couldn't hear out of my right ear. and thank god I didn't have anything contagious I had no you know I tested for everything so I was sure that I wasn't like spreading it around everybody and then there was that one show that I was just like you just hit like the you know what it was that made me feel like I was so out of it that night I hadn't slept I couldn't sleep and I you know I'm a sleeper so if I get my sleep then I can do all these things then I can really be present you gotta sleep right gotta sleep gotta sleep gotta sleep and my sleep yeah and my sleep etiquette is like no joke to sleep i don't fuck around with my sleep now you have good sleep etiquette i just focus on my sleep but your etiquette is impeccable i do i have very good you have sleep etiquette yes i do i the wind down yes the like is a ga when it comes to this otherwise there's a wind down there's a wind down there's a you know no sugar like before bed and stuff like that like i just and the screen goes away.

1:42:40How long before? At least a half an hour, if not more. Because the audience is coming in and then she has to...

1:42:52The Shabin Queen is out. The Shabin Queen. Yep, yep. Is it the Shabin's time? Yeah, there's a 12 o 'clock spike. Oh my God, I'm dead. And then there's a 3 p.m. spike. And then from 6 p.m., I'm always like, guys, you're in God's hands. Oh my god, that's so funny. So now the time is 2 o 'clock. 2 o 'clock. So we're in between two time zones. I'm going to try and get myself some lunch. This was so beautiful. This was so nice. Let's not make it two years. That is stupid. I will say this though. When you have that feeling with people, that's when I feel like you guys vibe. You like them. Yeah. It's normal whenever you...

1:43:35But I also think that becomes the downside is that you genuinely, until you said it, I did not. Like now when you're like two years. That's what I said. I was like, what? No, not two years. Two years seems crazy. It is crazy. But I am in the city for the next two or three weeks. So maybe we'll go to dinner or something. You let me know. Okay, great. You let me know. All right. This was great. Fantastic. You are amazing. Fantastic. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackle.

1:44:11Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

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