In short
World Cup Round of Sixteen recap and debate, with heavy focus on officiating/politics, penalty shootouts, and standout matches (Germany vs Paraguay; Brazil vs Norway; Argentina vs Cape Verde; Portugal vs Croatia). The hosts also discuss how the US market influences FIFA and how teams’ identities show up in knockout football.
Guests
Joe (co-host/guest). Trevor Noah is the main host; Joe is the other recurring voice in the episode. No other guests are introduced by name in the transcript.
Key claims
FIFA’s handling of Florian Balogun’s red card shows political/market influence, undermining “referee sacrosanct” and “politics separate from football.” Penalty outcomes reflect team psychology and leadership (captains/strikers should step up). Germany’s penalty collapse is “un-German,” tied to planning and player mentality. Brazil’s midfield/wingback aging hurts them; Norway’s structured defense and dynamic front three can upset.
Notable examples
Balogun red-card reversal; Germany eliminated on penalties vs Paraguay (Kimmich/Goretzka begging); Norway beating Brazil (Nusa exposing Danilo; Oscar Bob/Sheldrapp impact); Cape Verde pushing Argentina with Messi’s orchestrated goal and Cape Verde’s long passing sequences; Portugal’s Ronaldo substitution and Gonzalo Ramos header vs Croatia.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExploring World Cup Knockout Phase
0:45 to 2:50
Discussion covers the latest developments in the World Cup knockout stage.
“We've got to talk about Belgium and the USA We've got to talk about who else?”
Controversial Referee Decisions
2:50 to 6:48
Trevor discusses the impact of controversial referee decisions during the tournament.
“because even people still say, actually, Holland or the Dutch, led by the famous Johan Cruyff, should have won that final.”
America's Influence in FIFA Politics
6:48 to 12:12
An analysis of the influence of the United States on FIFA and the World Cup.
“all this process, the Somali referee, the way they treated the Iranian delegation, the visas they kept denying funds from Africa or from smaller countries.”
Fan Culture and Team Dynamics
12:12 to 14:00
Exploration of fan culture and team dynamics during the World Cup.
“What does 4th of July have to do with Morocco at all?”
World Cup Hotel Shenanigans
14:00 to 14:44
Discussion about the challenges teams face in maintaining secrecy during the World Cup.
“They went like, we don't want them to know where we're staying.”
Germany's Shocking Exit
14:46 to 15:30
Analysis of Germany's unexpected knockout from the World Cup, emphasizing their penalty shootout performance.
“Germany, since we last recorded an episode, knocked out.”
The Evolution of Penalty Taking
15:31 to 16:45
Exploration of how the approach to taking penalties has changed in modern football.
“Maybe I don't know when the game changed this.”
The Psychological Impact of Missed Penalties
16:46 to 19:21
Discussion on the long-lasting effects of missed penalties on players' careers and reputations.
“But also, I grew up with a German team, I told you this, the current generation of German players are what I call, and you laughed, but I call them woke footballers.”
Ronaldo's Leadership and Penalty Philosophy
19:22 to 21:54
Insights into Cristiano Ronaldo's approach to penalty taking and motivating teammates.
“when you say Bajo, they're like, if they know him, they go, the guy who missed the penalty.”
The Dutch Dilemma with Penalties
21:55 to 24:13
Examining the Netherlands' historical struggles with penalty shootouts in major tournaments.
“I've seen him want to take the fifth penalty.”
Show all 23 chapters
The Dutch Dilemma with Penalties
25:28 to 27:19
Examining the Netherlands' historical struggles with penalty shootouts in major tournaments.
“is usually the last place you'd want to hang out.”
The Future of Brazilian Football
27:20 to 28:00
Discussion on Brazil's current team dynamics and prospects for future generations.
“Like in this moment in time, and the reason I ask the question is, and you can ask any if you have, but like...”
Brazil's Midfield and Wingback Challenges
28:00 to 29:55
Discussion about Brazil's weaknesses in midfield and wingbacks in the World Cup.
“I think if Esteval was in this World Cup, he would have added a dimension to the attack that they were missing.”
Norway's Surprising Performance
29:56 to 31:46
Analysis of Norway's unexpected strength and tactical advantage in their games.
“Yeah, but you know what we also got to talk about is the other side of the coin, Norway.”
The Spirit of Team Bonds: Norway and Cape Verde
31:47 to 34:05
Exploration of team cohesion in Norway and Cape Verde, comparing them to Greece's Euro 2004 team.
“And showed up, came on, created two goals.”
Cape Verde's Impressive Goals Against Argentina
34:06 to 37:46
Detailed analysis of Cape Verde's goals against Argentina, highlighting their skill and strategy.
“because when you can trust the man on, like they say in 300, when you can trust the man on your left to never run.”
Reflections on Messi and Cape Verde's Journey
37:47 to 42:00
A conversation about the emotional impact of Cape Verde's performance and Messi's legacy.
“Coming up the field, moving the ball beautifully.”
Support for Messi and Love for the Game
42:00 to 42:40
Learn about the host's perspective on supporting Messi and the essence of football.
“When Liverpool beat us 4-0, when Liverpool beat Barcelona 4-0 and they came back from a 3-0 down, I went like, fair play.”
Ronaldo's Impact on Portugal's Performance
42:40 to 45:38
Discussion on Cristiano Ronaldo's performance and the tense match against Croatia.
“another player that you love talking about, Cristiano Ronaldo.”
Analyzing the Substitution of Ronaldo
45:38 to 48:26
Examination of the strategic decision to substitute Ronaldo and its implications.
“So when he brings on Ruben Neves, Ruben Neves goes in the middle, then Gonzalo Ramos plays as the nine, which is where he thrives.”
The Struggles of African Teams in Knockout Stages
48:26 to 56:00
Exploration of the psychological and structural challenges faced by African teams in World Cups.
“You made an active effort to play the ball Right?”
Analysis of Morocco's Performance
56:00 to 1:01:48
Discussion on Morocco's resilience and performance in the World Cup.
“They will win games and I think you saw them against the Netherlands.”
Analysis of Morocco's Performance
1:01:52 to 1:03:50
Discussion on Morocco's resilience and performance in the World Cup.
“Everybody talks about the stadiums, the fans, the television audiences, the stars coming over to play here, but nobody talks about the smell.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Febreze and we're coming to you from the official Febreze sponsored boot room, which if you know anything about soccer is usually the last place you want to hang out.
0:16This is What Now with Trevor Noah. In the infamous words of Erling Haaland, well, well, well. What a week. Welcome to the podcast, Joe. And welcome to a crazy week of Knockout Football We have so many things to get to in this episode We've got to talk about the results We've got to talk about Brazil We've got to talk about the Netherlands We've got to talk about Germany We've got to talk about Norway We've got to talk about France We've got to talk about Mexico and England We've got to talk about Belgium and the USA We've got to talk about who else? Who else do we have to talk about? We have to talk about the Argentina We're going to talk about Argentina and Cape Verde.
1:01And we have to talk about France and Paraguay. But let's kick things off with the freshest news. Oh, my God. You know, they say that football, what makes football such a beautiful game is that it can bring out sides of people we didn't know existed. Who would have thought Team USA would have Donald Trump fighting for a birthright citizen? Yes. Who would have thought? Who would have thought? I mean, we've seen some pretty crazy decisions in a World Cup. I don't think since, what was it, like Garincha, we've seen a decision overruled like this Team USA player getting a red card, Balogun. Florian.
1:47For Florian Balogun, which shouldn't have been a red card. We all agree on that. He was had done by. But the World Cup has never cared about what should have or shouldn't have been. the punishment is doled out you take it you you got to deal with the with the with the punishment you got to deal with the effects and it turns out if your president is donald trump and if your country's the united states and if infantino's in charge anything is possible the impossible is possible fifa is usually like an african parent once you've gotten the punishment you get the punishment oh yeah that's you can't go like oh but can i appeal but mom you see no no no you get and then we can talk afterwards.
2:24But yeah, what happened with Florida? So we all agreed, hard done by. But political interference into the judicial system of FIFA, FIFA normally comes and takes over your judiciary, not just footballing decisions, but everything from copyright and all this. And so this was, it's the thing you said, we haven't seen like a country, we haven't seen a host country lean on FIFA like this since 1978, when the dictatorship in Argentina hosted the World Cup, because even people still say, actually, Holland or the Dutch, led by the famous Johan Cruyff, should have won that final. But they didn't because, apparently, the dictatorship made sure they needed that win.
3:03And they leaned on everyone from FIFA down to the referee. That's why people say the first World Cup won by Argentina was very tainted. I wonder what this does for the conversation around the game. So, if you're a Team USA fan, It's great. Yes. Yeah. I'm happy because I think the red card itself was trash. Yes. You're saying justice has been served. Yeah. But then like the way that justice has been served isn't my favorite. You know what it feels like to me? It's almost in many ways like the real justice system where the rich, powerful kid got off with the crime. But if it was a kid from like a developing nation, a kid who was struggling, they wouldn't have gotten off with this crime.
3:46Yeah. They wouldn't have gotten away with it. Because I've always said I would love for FIFA to go over its rulings because the World Cup has so few games that they should be able to look at a ruling during the match and say, you know what, that decision actually, maybe that was a little harsh. Maybe that decision was wrong. Maybe that decision, I don't think that decisions should be set in stone like law. Yes. Okay, two things. So for me, I don't mind that they did it with Balogun, but I wish they would do it with other games as well. So for me, two things. One, first of all, FIFA has always insisted that the referee's decision is sacrosanct.
4:21It's sacrosanct. It can't be messed with. It stands as it stands. Because FIFA has always been very big at empowering the referees. The referees knowing that our decision is final. So that's disappointing from that end. Another reason is FIFA has always insisted that politics and football should be separate. Yeah. If actually, if you're, I think they recently banned one country. I can't quite remember. It wasn't Kuwait or one of the countries. If your government interferes with the FA of your country, FIFA bans you immediately, automatically. Because they want the government to not interfere in the running of football in any country.
4:58So again, disappointing on that front. But also third and most importantly, I went to law school. I didn't pick up much. But one thing I picked up was justice cannot just be served. Justice needs to be seen to be served. so you can't just make a decision that just it has to be seen so in this case if you're again as I said if you're maybe Ghana or if you're a small emerging African country or if you're Asia you're going like oh so just because we don't have the clout to lean on Gianni Fatino we can't get decisions with us it's very very disappointing you see the Belgian Belgian Football Federation put out a post online they responded but all they did was they responded with the rules because they It was very petty.
5:42Yeah. And also very Belgian. Very Belgian. Yes, very Belgian. All they did was respond and say, per the rules, regardless of whether FIFA suspends or does, one match ban has to be served for a red card minimum. The player has to miss the next match. Yes, yes, yes. That is the rule. And they cannot change that. And so like FIFA now, it almost feels like FIFA has invented a rule. Yes. Just for the scenario. They've gone, we haven't overridden the ref, but we've overridden we've overridden the effect of the ref's decision which is for all intents for all intents and purposes that is the punishment of the ref and I'll say this you know what I mean because football has a very cruel and twisted sense of humour Balogon is going to score in his next game he might score the winner against Belgium and now you're going you know when you watch games and the player we're supposed to have gotten a red card and we score as the winner and they stay in the game football has such a twisted sense of humour that might happen.
6:40Very disappointing, but not unexpected because we've seen throughout this process. Normally FIFA is very independent, but we've seen throughout all this process, the Somali referee, the way they treated the Iranian delegation, the visas they kept denying funds from Africa or from smaller countries. We've seen that the US has consistently, consistently thrown its weight around. It has consistently bullied FIFA into accepting its decisions. And so for me, when I watched Gianni Infantino at a press conference, when they asked him, until you're embarrassed by how much you've bent over backwards to accommodate the Trump administration, when I watched him go like, yeah, you know, FIFA really cannot be in charge of the immigration system.
7:23I wonder, Gianni, are you kidding me? You always take over the immigration system of the country that's hosting. You did it with Qatar when you invented the higher cards, where people would just come in if they had the higher card. You did it with Russia when you invented the fan pass, where fans, So long as they had the ticket, they could just march straight into Russia. So for me, it's been... People say FIFA is always disappointing. So the bar is on the sea floor, but they have managed to somehow dig under. And yeah, go under the bar. Very disappointing. Not unexpected, very surprising. But you know, as I told you, I see Barogon scoring against Belgium.
8:00And that's just going to add now fuel to the fire. It's really... Enough to leave you speechless. It really is. here's what it is for me I don't expect them to not make certain decisions I just would have hoped that they would find a way to make the ruling seem a little bit more equally distributed like I would have liked it if FIFA had just like put their thumb on the scale for a few more decisions in this World Cup then we would go there's a trend you know but look I mean all it seems like to me is we've realized that FIFA's real kryptonite or rather their weakness is not the power of the country that's hosting the tournament it's the power of the market that the country has.
8:51Oh interesting, okay. Because if you think about it you have FIFA will host its tournament anywhere, Brazil, France South Africa you name it there's only one nation in the world where football is like nowhere in terms of like market share, right? And it's the United States. The United States is one of the biggest markets in the world. Look at how much NFL players earn. Look at how much NBA stars earn. Baseball. They are shocked when they see the followings that football players have in the world. Like whenever an American athlete sees how popular and how big a footballer is worldwide, they're shocked when they realize sometimes they're earning three times their money.
9:41Not just sports players, not just sports or ball players. Everyone. I remember when there was the whole fight about who is bigger, Taylor Swift or Messi or Ronaldo. Who is bigger, Beyonce. Beyonce fans were shocked when people were posting Instagram followers for Ronaldo. They were like, oh my God. So it's that. But for me, the one thing I want to say though, for me, this even goes outside. So you're saying FIFA is trying to tap into, desperately trying to tap into the American market. I get that. But for me, this goes outside football. It's way bigger than football. Because if the US can throw its weight around at the UN and make the UN bend its rules in a way South Africa can't, in a way Uganda can't, in a way Kurosawa can't, then what's FIFA?
10:24The US can veto things. The US can do whatever it wants at the UN. But that is what the big countries do at the UN, not just the United States. Okay, no, you're right. You get what I'm saying? That's exactly what they do at the UN. You're right. At the UN, if you're not one of the major countries, you can veto any bill that another country or whatever motion another country wishes to pass. It's up to you. But you're saying when it comes to football, particularly. Yes. What I'm saying is we make it seem like FIFA, like the US leaned on FIFA. I think people are making it seem like FIFA bowed to the US.
10:56And I argue Donald Trump and Infantino, just quid pro quo, They've gone This works for both of us The interests are aligned Let's keep it going Trump is going Keep America and its fans happy Infantino's going Yeah I actually do want America to stay happy Because America Yes Has paid so much money How many ads is Christian Pulisic in? Oh my god Think about how much money I think it's between him and David Beckham I can't tan on the screen David Beckham Yo David Beckham Beckham is just David Beckham I was counting He's American by now I was counting his ads Oh my god It starts in the morning Yes With like coffee and breakfast He works you up And then in the middle of the day It's like Bank of America And Home Depot And then by the end of the day It was like Lenovo AI Yes And And Stella Artois He's in every block Yes Every block Has David You'd swear David Beckham's playing now By the way Yes With how popular it is Like I've never seen anything like it But Christian Pulisic is another one And Team USA is another one Like if you think of the value And like how much this is worth Not just in money now but like in value of the game think about the MLS like if we think of this in isolation I think we can miss the forest from the trees the longer Messi stays in the World Cup the better it is for the MLS that's true the longer the Mexican players stay in the World Cup the better it is for the MLS yes the longer any of these teams the longer Team USA stays in the World Cup although they have eight players from Europe they've also got other players but now they can say the world they went into the whatever stage the World Cup player it adds value to the MLS so that adds like it's that what is it rising tides lift all boats lift all boats yes so if you think of the value this is adding to the US I can see it from everybody's point of view Gianni Infantino's going I can't let this thing I can't let this thing cock block all the money I want to make it's insane to your point that you're saying because yesterday I was watching I was watching Morocco I made the mistake I made the mistake sorry I apologize I made the mistake of watching the Morocco vs Canada game on Fox and Morocco scored and the commenter went like Morocco takes the lead on this 4th of July holiday.
13:01And I went like, what? What does 4th of July have to do with Morocco at all? But it's the thing you're saying. It's the thing you're saying. It's more profitable to see everything through the prism of the US, yes. It's actually funny. If I was to bet, I would have said that Canada will get knocked out first of all the host nations. Oh, okay. It would have been so put on. They were the first ones. Because they just seemed like, I know it's a stereotype, but like the most polite host nation in a way. Because I don't know if you've seen, like, by the time this episode comes out, England will have played Mexico.
13:33But did you see what the... We were tapping it right before. Did you see what the Mexico fans were doing outside the England team hotel? Classic. Shooting fireworks. Classic. Playing music. Yes. Screaming at them in the lobby. Trying to ensure that they don't sleep the night before. Yeah, they're just like, we just don't want you to sleep. It was crazy because I've seen Eastern European clubs do that, club fans, but I've never seen a country do that, a host country. So what happened actually was England booked 15 hotels to throw them off. Which is pointless. To throw them off. They went like, we don't want them to know where we're staying.
14:03Yes. But then remember the hotel that they booked in, I feel like the hotel manager had a patriotic duty to snitch. But you don't even need to switch. Snitch. If you've been to a World Cup, you know, every single team moves around like a diplomatic delegation. Yes. It's hard to sneak around when you've got a giant bus written England on it. And also with lead cars. With like police cars. So then like, oh, I wonder which hotel they have. Is it the one that has a giant bus with police escort? Or is it the hotel where nobody's there? Where do you think England is staying? Yes, yes. No, the Mexican fans really brought it.
14:34Because they spent, I don't think any English player slept a wink. Unless you're one of those players who can sleep through like the apocalypse. Because it was insane outside the hotel. Yes, you should see the videos. And speaking of insane, if we look at some of the results. Germany, since we last recorded an episode, knocked out. And you know what? For me, it's the full sentence. Not just knocked out by Paraguay. Knocked out in penalties. Penalties. The most un-German-like way to go out. Yes. I'll say this. We both did favor Germany for that matchup. But we both also did say Germany was in transition.
15:11Germany was having an identity crisis. And for me, when I watched that game, especially the penalty shootout, I couldn't believe this was Germany. Because you saw the videos that came out afterwards. Joshua Kimmich trying and begging and pleading. Yeah, begging players to take the kick. With Leon Goretzka, who has won a Champions League, has almost 80 cups, begging him to take a penalty. He refused. Jonathan had to step up to take his first penalty. Okay, but here's my question. Maybe I don't know when the game changed this. When I first started watching football, penalty takers were decided before the game started.
15:43That's right. You're very right. You're very right. So the coach, long before the game started, like literally they knew coming into the game. The way I understand football, a coach knows who's going to kick. By the way, penalties even in the match, no one should discuss anything. They go, first kicker is this one, second kicker might be this one, third kicker. They know who takes corner kicks and free kicks and free kicks and free kicks. So if we get three penalties in a match, this is going to be the order. And then when we go to a shootout, this is the order. So to me, I couldn't believe that the German captain was begging his plate.
16:15The man looked like he was selling goods in a flea market. Oh my God, I thought you were going to say he looked like a guy. You know those activists handing out flyers at the subway? No, it was worse. Greenpeace? Yeah, but it was worse. No, but at least the people have the power. People can engage with you, yes. Yeah, my man, the man was begging people, said please buy the plea. I'll tell you what happened. I'll tell you what I think happened. So I think this is what happened. I think Germany were a bit like us. I think they thought this wouldn't go to penalties, which is very irresponsible and very un-German, because you have to plan.
16:44You have to plan for everything. It's a World Cup. You've got to plan for everything. But also, I grew up with a German team, I told you this, the current generation of German players are what I call, and you laughed, but I call them woke footballers. They are too soft and too pretty for their own good. So when I was growing up, you remember Klinsmann, Oliver Bierhoff, Rud Vohra. When I watched Euro 96 against England, the semifinal, they played at Wembley. And German penalty, stone-cold killers, they scored five out of five. Stefan Rauter Thomas Stranz Who are the others? You don't even have to go over that far back Christian Ziga Miroslav Klose Thomas Muller Mario Gomez You didn't have to ask those guys Who did you want to face with those?
17:39You know what I mean? No, but I'm saying back then Because again, I remember that team Christian Ziga, Andrea Smola So Andreas Moller scored the winning penalty against England at a packed Wembley when everyone was singing It's Coming Home. And you know what he did? He strutted around like a peacock. Packed Wembley. This guy had no fear. And so I'm saying back then, you didn't even have to ask the Germans who's going to take a penalty. All of them would be volunteering. All of them would be putting their hands up. What do you think has happened? I think what happened to German football is what's happening.
18:09Oh, no, no. In general, what has happened to penalty takers or penalty taking? Is it that, like, because I wrestle with this. I'm like, have players become, like, I was really trying to break this down. And I was like, is this like the Roberto Baggio effect? Is this like a second system effect? You and I grew up at a time when Roberto Baggio was widely considered the best footballer in the world when he was playing, right? Incredible player. He was the best. He was a number 10. He ruled the game. Every kid was trying to grow their hair into a ponytail. The divine ponytail, yes. Yeah, to try and match him.
18:47He goes to the final. Drags Italy. Kicking and screaming. Drags Italy to the final. To the final, yes. And in the final, it's a penalty shootout. And he has to kick. The final kick against Brazil. Fun enough, USA 94. Yeah. And he boots that ball, skies it. Into the sky. He misses that penalty so badly that his name is essentially forgotten. He became a byword. From the halls of fame. No one really speaks about him. If you talk to any footballer, any people today when you talk about football, when you say Bajo, they're like, if they know him, they go, the guy who missed the penalty. Or they don't talk about him at all.
19:29Which is pretty crazy. His career disappeared pretty much after that. He did redeem himself in 98 because he scored a penalty in 98. and then they used him in the John Walker ad. Oh, the making up for it. Yes, maybe that's a deep cut for a soccer player, but they're going to keep walking even if you miss that. But I think that's a deep cut. But yeah, but what I'm saying is though, like, I wonder if that moment lived in the heads of so many players that that generation when they got to an age where they were now playing the game, they went, the worst thing you can do is miss a penalty. Because for instance, let's even look recently.
20:06Gabriel Martinelli he has not lived that penalty down not him personally but what I mean is if you go online the amount of like memes and jokes that have come out Magaris Magaris of Arsenal Gabriel not Martinelli Gabriel of Arsenal yes not Martinelli Gabriel from Arsenal he misses that that penalty in the Champions League final against PSG against PSG right skies it if you go online now there's still those jumps you know those jump memes where they make it seem like it's something else and then all of a sudden sudden it's him missing it he's become the missing guy in that way you know what i mean i i almost feel like players would rather let the goalkeeper take the trophy than to be the player who missed it because if you because if you let the goalkeeper save it no one remembers you as the kicker but if you miss it oh yeah no one forgets no no but i'll say this i don't understand why players don't step up personally because when i played and i didn't play to that level but when i played i used to have this mentality of if someone is going to make the team sad by missing it would rather be me uh ronaldo has that attitude it would rather be me because do you remember that penalty shootout um when he when he did Portugal when he went and fetched guys off the bench not off the bench but off the sideline and he said come and kick and he chose i think it was Neves i think it was Ruben Neves he chose him to take the first kick like the first kick and he said Ruben come kick and Ruben said no.
21:34And Ronaldo said, hey. And then he looked at him and said, hey, you kick really amazingly. He said this all in Portuguese. You're an amazing kicker. Come and kick that ball. He said, if you miss, you miss. It doesn't matter. But go out there. Be brave. Kick the ball. And I was really, it was amazing to see that Cristiano Ronaldo said this. Because you saw that attitude. I think he has learned from his lesson. Because Ronaldo, I think three times in his career now, I've seen him want to take the fifth penalty. And he didn't reach there. And his team lost because he was waiting. Messi always takes the first penalty.
22:04Miss or not miss, he always takes the first penalty. Oh, that's interesting. Because you need to set the tone. So me, when I was playing, and again, I didn't play at a high level, I used to go like, I would rather miss than Trevor misses. And then I spent the whole night going like, oh, maybe if I take him. Yeah, they do great things. So for me, I would rather you step up. Because now Leon Goretzka will keep asking himself, maybe if I take him instead of Jonathan Tarr, instead of Jonathan Tarr, maybe. So I don't like maybes. Step up, take the penalty. Here's another question I have. like staying in the world of penalties why are the dutch so bad at penalties and what i mean by this is like this is not the first world cup where the netherlands has gotten knocked out in penalties like what is it about penalties that the dutch are they just unlucky are they are they is it not something that is i don't get it like we can go back in time yes to the greatest 98 against brazil they lost in 2000 and yeah they lost yeah qatar against argentina there is i think it's a national For me, and that's why I was surprised by Germany, because I think penalties have a national character attached to them.
23:07They are teams who are killers when it comes to penalties. For the longest time, Germany were, and England sucked at penalties for the longest time. So I don't know whether that... I was surprised that Van Dijk didn't step up. Everyone was. He has missed penalties, yes. Messi has missed more. You always joke about this. You always tell me Messi needs to work on penalties. But Messi still steps up every time. He does, he does. Van Dijk as a leader, you need to step up. Why is Bruno Gimaraes taking a penalty? I still don't get that, man. Why? I don't know what Brazil... Vinny, you're on the pitch.
23:39You're the leader. Step up, take a penalty. Yeah, man, Brazil... Zidane always stepped up. As a leader, you need to step up. But now, we were watching this game together. Brazil versus Norway. I didn't see a moment where there was confusion. It didn't seem like Vinny didn't step up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like he was there holding the ball. You're right. It almost seems like Bruno Gimaraes was like, no I'm supposed to kick this he was a designated yeah you're right and then again maybe I don't know things but in my head I don't I just don't understand why your striker is not kicking the penalty you're right like for me I just feel like a player a forward who spends more time kicking a ball in a box into the net into yes is the player I would choose to kick it you're very right that's why with Belgium you could even see there was like so much tension when Thielmans took the ball yes and said I'm kicking it People around him are like, what are you doing?
24:31And he's a great technique. So when I was playing, and this is how we used to look at it, and I agree with you. When I was playing, the most technical players, the technicians are the ones who should take penalties first. So the strikers, then you come down to the midfielders, and then defenders, and then keeper last. Keeper last. So when you see so many defenders stepping up, there's a problem with that team. Because technicians can pass the ball into the neck. Technicians spend the whole time trying to pass the ball into the neck. A defender, what do they spend most of the time doing? Yeah, they kick the ball as far as they can and as high as they can.
25:02Trying to not put the ball in the net. We saw the Australian kid do that, the 18-year-old. He stepped up. No, but we even saw the first guy do that as well. I was sat down. Yeah, we saw him. Had a great game. He was a man. He also booted it out. I don't understand why. Gabriel Magueres did. That's what we call it these days. You see, he's Gabriel did.
25:24We're coming to you from a boot room sponsored by Febreze, which if you know anything about soccer is usually the last place you'd want to hang out. Because this is where all the gear lives. The cleats, the jerseys, the socks, the bags, everything that probably never sees a washing machine until it's too late. But right now, it actually smells fresh in here. That's because Febreze fabric is built for exactly this kind of odor. The stuff trapped in fabrics that you can't just throw in the wash. It doesn't just cover it up. It actually fights the odor. And I have to say, this is one of the more confident sponsorships I've ever seen.
26:07Usually brands want to put their names on the nicest room in the building, the VIP lounge, the luxury suite, the hospitality area. Febreze looked at the boot room and said, no, no, no, put us in there. And honestly, I respect that because this room contains decades of bad decisions. Wet cleats. Forgotten gym bags. Socks that should have retired years ago. The kind of smells that don't just enter a room. They sign a long-term lease. And yet somehow it smells fresh. Yeah. Can you smell that, Joe? Smell what? Exactly! That's what is so impressive about this. Because a lot of the things in here are exactly the things that you can't throw in the wash.
26:52None of it. The cleats, the bag, the car seat, after practice. That's the whole point. Febreze fabric is for the things the game touches that the washing machine can't. And it's made with no dyes, no formaldehydes, and uses a 100 % natural nitrogen propellant. If your soccer gear is starting to smell like its own locker room, it's time for Febreze fabric. It doesn't just mask the odors. It fights them. Find Febreze fabric at Walmart.
27:25Let's talk about Brazil. Is it over for Brazil? I think Brazil... Like in this moment in time, and the reason I ask the question is, and you can ask any if you have, but like... Why do you think it's over? No, no, I'm asking. I'm not saying it's over. What I'm saying is, this is the first time I've seen Brazil where I don't know who's next. I don't know who's in the pipeline. I don't have an obvious idea of where Brazil's next generation is going to come from. I'm not worried about the next generation. Yeah? I'm not worried. They have Hendrik, they have Esteval. I think if Esteval was in this World Cup, he would have added a dimension to the attack that they were missing.
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28:06Yeah, but what about the midfield? The midfield is aging. The midfield is killing them. It's killing, killing them. Where's the new midfield? It's killing them. Brazil has never though had... What about the wingbacks? I'll say this. Okay, I'll say this. I think you know what you're doing right now. I'll say Brazil has never really relied on having the flashiest defensive midfielders. Cleberson and Globetto Silva, Helped Brazil win the 2002 World Cup because they had Ronaldinho. So what they need is that guy in the hall. Paqueta can't be your guy. And today, because Paqueta was out, who did they play there?
28:35You can't play Martineri in the hall. He doesn't have the vision. He doesn't have the balance. Martineri is a wing guy. He can't play in the hall. In the hall, you need a certain finesse, a certain vision, special awareness. He doesn't have that. So they're missing that player there. They were able to win the World Cup in 2002 because they had Cleberson, who was good but not spectacular. they had Gilberto Silva but ahead of them they had Ronaldinho Rivaldo and R9 or Phenomeno so they need a guy in the hole but who did they have as their wingbacks they're also missing because they produced Carlos and Cafu but that's what I'm trying to say that's what I'm saying if we look at Brazil's game if we look at Brazil as we know it as a team yes they've not focused on defense but the wingbacks they've created the most legendary wingbacks they'll kill you they've created the most legendary wingers and they've created the most legendary forwards or attackers.
29:27That's how they have won the five. Yes, the five stars on their show. Now, I don't know any Brazilian wingbacks who are special. The fact that they're playing Danilo, 600-year-old Danilo at this point in time. 600-year-old. It should be in a nursing home. Oh, man. You're very right. 600-year-old Danilo. A country that gave us Macon, that gave us Dani Alves, that gave us Cafu, that gave us Roberto Carlos to go back in time that gave us Carlos Alberto is now playing Danilo. So it's a damning indictment on Brazil. Yeah, but you know what we also got to talk about is the other side of the coin, Norway.
30:01Frankly, I called it, and I know it sounded crazy when I said Norway would win. But I knew Norway would win because, one... No, it didn't sound crazy, though. No, but let's be honest. It didn't sound crazy. Okay. If anyone who knew football, it didn't sound crazy. But what sounded crazy was the idea that, like, Brazil wouldn't... even in the game, let's say Norway won, like when we were talking about it, I said 2-2. I didn't even say that. You said that would be good. The fact that you said 2-1, the fact that I said 2-2, tells us that we both didn't assume that Brazil was going to win the game in that way, right?
30:39But I don't think anyone thought Brazil was going to fold the way they did. But on the other side, Norway is playing a type of football that almost feels deceivingly good if there's such a thing. Deceptively good. You're right. You know what I mean? Yeah, deceptively good. You know what I mean? I'll say this. I'll say this. So part of the reason I fancied Norway is Norway has a very good front three. Nusa, Haaland, and Soloth. I don't know about Soloth. You can't. No, no, no. No, no. No, man. But when I saw, my point was Nusa, I knew Nusa was going to expose Danilo. And I knew that... You didn't call that, yes.
31:21Nusa's dynamic, man. But the thing that made me fancy no way even more is I knew that when Soloth eventually comes off, Oscar Bob is coming on. Oscar Bob is your boy. You love him. Then I knew that on the left, when Nusa comes on, comes off, they're bringing on Andreas Sheldrapp. I've seen Sheldrapp kill teams in the Champions League. He's a 23-year-old kid, but he plays for Benfica and he's incredible. And so I knew that when Sheldrapp comes up against Danilo, after Nusa has run, him ragged. He's going to kill them. And showed up, came on, created two goals. So for me, when I looked at the benches, I said, Brazil, who do you have coming off the bench?
31:55Henrik and Neymar. I said, Noe, who do you have? I went, Noe has two killers coming off the bench. That's why I fancied, plus the midfield battle, but that's why I fancied. You know what they also really have that gets overlooked? They have a structurally solid defensive line. Like, Noe's defense is focused, is together. No names, by the way. All of them, no names. Yeah, all no names. No names, yeah. You can't pick them out of a police lineup. Yeah. Yeah. But... Also because there can never be in a police lineup because they are white. But... They are white, blonde men. They will never be in a police lineup.
32:30But they play like a solid, boring, good football at the back. Okay, so I'm going to tell you something about Norway that also is... And I know we're getting into this later, or maybe it's a good segue. I'm going to tell you something about Norway that reminds me so much of Cape Verde. Yeah. They're a team who are like brothers. They will lay their body on the line. That's true. For themselves. So for me, they remind me of Greece in Euro 2004. Greece was unfancied coming to the tournament. Otto Reha got the iconic German manager, got this Greek team of dreamers. Yeah. And they were fighting. Like, you posted the Sparta meme.
33:10Yeah. But this was real Sparta. Theo Zagorakis, Therios, Angelo Caisteas. This was a team of like dreamers who hadn't had like great footballing careers at their clubs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my friend, they came in, beat Portugal in the opening game, beat France in the quarterfinals. They were winning 1-0, 1-0. Met Portugal again. Portugal was hosting. Beat them again in the final. And they were just fighting for each other. When you saw that Cape Verde team, they don't have a star. They don't have a star name. Their only star name is, I think, Vosinha, who is a goalkeeper. and maybe Pico Lopez.
33:43Yeah, but that's not even that, to your point, they're not stars. They fight for each other. These are guys who are, so no way, when you look at that Greek team of Europe 2004 and when you look at Cape Verde, these are guys who are bonded. These are guys who are going to be brothers 80 years from now. They'll be meeting. They'll be in the same WhatsApp group. You know when you're going to have a WhatsApp group for forever? These are guys who are bonded and teams like that in a tournament are a menace because when you can trust the man on, like they say in 300, when you can trust the man on your left to never run.
34:14Then you, or when you know, like if the flank collapses, the whole team collapses, these guys fight for every ball. Cape Verde made Argentina earn every goal. Every goal. There were no gifts. Every goal that Argentina scored, except the last one, which was, that's where it's like football and it's luck. That header was going out by the way. It was going out. Messi's goal. It had to be perfect. Was so good. It was so good for so many reasons. First of all, it's good because you watch Messi start the play. He's facing his team. He's standing on the edge of the box. He's walking with the back line.
34:48He starts orchestrating his players and starts moving the ball around from his position. He's not on the ball. He's not on the ball, yes. He's just pointing, telling people what to do. Very Pedri-esque. Yeah, very yes, yes. You know, he's just telling people what to do, where to move, how to play. And then, in a split second, the centre-back takes his eye off Messi. Runs back onside. Messi runs back onside, then runs to get the ball, traps that ball on a half volley. The first touch had to be perfect. That was beyond perfect. Oh my God. And then flicks it at the goalie's head. Because the keeper has to, they flinch every time.
35:23At an angle where you just don't think that's going to happen, gets the goal. Now you're like, oh, okay, this is now Argentina. Before you go on, you know Zlatan said that and I think they teach it everywhere. If you're a striker, smash that ball at the keeper or just put it, because naturally, they have to flinch no keeper is going the natural body reaction when something is coming at it is to do this so I have a different opinion on that funny enough okay but first go I don't think goalkeepers are necessarily flinching I think goalkeepers spend so much time practicing choosing a side okay they never think up is the side so if you when you when you shoot a ball they they're like they're always left or right but very seldom are they thinking it's coming like straight here Do you know what I mean?
36:10Okay, but I interrupted you. I was going like, okay, so after Messi scores? We now think. It's done. The layman would now think. It's done. Oh, okay. The game's done. Yeah, put a fork in them. Yeah, that's what. Put a fork in Cape Verde. They are done. But this is Cape Verde. Cape Verde not only comes back, they play a beautiful football. They don't pull like a haram ball. They're not just kicking the ball over the top. They're not just like spamming crosses. No, they move the ball. They pass the ball. They play the ball. They move the ball. They pass the ball. They come back. They get a goal.
36:43Not just a goal. They nutmegged two defenders. And that first pass was beautiful. The first pass nutmegged Medina. They shot into the goal. Nutmegged Lisandro Martinez. The second one was more lucky. No, no, no, no, no, no. It was more lucky. I don't think it was. It was more lucky. I don't think it was. The first one was very much a nutmeg. Yes, but I don't think it was. When I watched Duarte shoot that ball. Really? I don't think it was, man. Like, I watched it. He didn't just shoot. Because sometimes players shoot and inshallah. Okay, got it. They shoot in hope and go like, let me just shoot and inshallah.
37:12He, like you could see him, not making two great defenders like that is never by luck. I was impressed. I thought, both Cape Verde goals, brother, you can't take anything away from them. Then you go, you go to the other side of the field. Argentina has the ball again. Lissandro Martinez gets it. Strike has finished. You're like, you're like, oh, what's he going to do? He's a defender. He's a defender. Yes. It's on his left foot. Okay, I don't know what he's he scores a banger again similar top corner yes yes you're right in the top Vosinho not there for it kind of expected though because he he learned his trade Martinez they call him the butcher yeah but people forget he learned his trade at Ajax you don't play for Ajax if you're not technically sound well I didn't I didn't think of that actually if you're Ajax doesn't just sign anyone you have to be technically sound on the ball so he has scored some bangers he has uh but yeah again you're saying he scores Yeah, again.
38:07And then Cape Verde comes along. Strings together. What was it, like 15, 20 passes? 20 passes, yes. Coming up the field, moving the ball beautifully. Argentina chasing shadows. Argentina chasing shadows. You see them running from the top right corner of the box. Cape Verde passes it forward. The man brings it down, brings it around. They move, they switch positions. They slowly come creeping down the left side of the field. They move the ball. You think, okay, there's nothing. What are they going to do here? and then the left winger gets the ball. One on one with McAllister. Shake of the hips.
38:43But so far away from the goals that the worst you're thinking is a good cross. You're praying for a good cross. A shake of the hips. He released. He sent McAllister back to Buenos Aires. A banger. My God. Goal of the World Cup. I'll tell you two things about it. An instant, instant contender for goal of the year. That's goal of the World Cup. Yes, no, goal of the year. You know the award, the famous award that they give out, goal of the year, are the push cars. Yeah. From Ferenc Pushkas, immediate contender. Just not because of the goal, by the way. The whole play. They build up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:19And the team they were up against. Perfect. Yeah, in the moment. I'll say two things about that game. One, that goal that you've just described reminded me so much of the goal that Saudi Arabia scored against Argentina to win in 2022. It was almost the same goal. Into the top corner. Al-Sawali. Al-Dawasri, sorry. And then the goal Messi scored reminded me so much of a similar goal that Messi scored against Nigeria. If you remember, Messi checked. It was a 2018 World Cup. The one that had Diego Maradona praying to the goals. Messi checked. Ball over the top. That time, I think it was... Oh, the great midfielder.
39:59I'm ranking on his name. Ball over the top. brought it down and he was off to the races. But again, kept Vardycan taking it. Even the celebration from that goal makes it for me, Pushkas. Because he didn't just celebrate. He ran to the crowd and looked for his girlfriend. He was, yo, that moment, I thought the guy was, like, he forgot there was a game. He forgot. He stopped the game, brother. He forgot there was a game. He forgot there was a game. he could not believe what he had experienced. No, I was reading their story. It's a beautiful story because he was playing in the German third division.
40:33Yeah. Just, I think, 18 or so months ago, this guy has stood by him. It was a great moment. I'm not even a romantic like that. I'm a cynical, cynical, cynical football fan. I'm a cynic. I don't have a tender spot in my heart, but that really, really did bring a tear to your eye. I saw the rumors Fabrizio Romano said, apparently, Inter Miami might be signing Vozinha. He should. He was incredible. That would be amazing. He's the Messi stopper. Can I tell you? He's the Messi stopper. I also think that would be like a beautiful, it's just a wonderful reward for a player I saw him with a jersey with David Beckham it would be great he's 40 he would earn some good money he's a star he's definitely a star social media otherwise he's got 20 million followers now on social media yeah he would be great but the thing I loved about that game Trevor even if they lost Cape Verde those players first of all will never buy a dinner or buy a beer in Cape Verde ever again chances are their grandkids will never buy a beer if you represent your country like that, if you make your country that proud, because now everyone knows what Cape Verde is.
41:36Actually, for me, if they had dumped out Argentina, they didn't, they came close, but for me, that would have been the biggest upset since Cameroon beat Maradona's Argentina in 1990. It was incredible. It was a beautiful game. It was the game of the tournament. Were you sad? Because on the one hand, you've got your GOAT Messi. On the other hand, you've got Cape Verde, who you've been pushing from the beginning of the tournament. are you happy with the results? I'm happy with the results because I want Messi to win back-to-back championships but if they had lost for me, I've told you this Trevor and you did say that me when Barcelona loses I never get down it's because for me when you beat a team with Messi you've earned the victory I love Messi I support Messi but Messi is such a good player that if you beat him I can never be sad I go like you've earned it because it takes a special team to beat Messi.
42:27When Liverpool beat us 4-0, when Liverpool beat Barcelona 4-0 and they came back from a 3-0 down, I went like, fair play. Because I love the game. I love Messi, but I love the game of football more than Messi. Let's talk about another player that you love talking about, Cristiano Ronaldo. Yes. In our last episode, we said something that I would argue has now proved to be true. We said, if Portugal wants to go through, by hook or crook, Ronaldo's going to have to be off the field. Portugal was playing against Croatia. Yes. It was a tense, tense match where Portugal never looked like they were going to pull away.
43:05They get awarded a penalty. Cristiano Ronaldo steps up, takes the penalty brilliantly. Brilliantly, yes. Scores the penalty. High pressure penalty. Yeah, yeah. Scores the penalty. But then again, the match goes back to a tense game where anything can happen. Croatia could have won it. Mateo Kovacic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With that run. Kovacic made a crazy run. Hit the post, yes. and then Portugal's coach Roberto Martinez that woke him up makes a ballsy decision substitutes Cristiano Ronaldo and I'm sure you remember the moment yes anyone who is watching it will remember this moment Ronaldo looks up at the board showing who's being substituted he looks at the sideline he looks at the boards he looks around him and you can see he's going guys I think this is a malfunction because I see my number yes but there is no world where I would be getting substituted.
43:56When the team needs a goal. Yes. When your team needs a goal. He looks up, he looks down, he looks up, he looks around. He was in disbelief, yes. He's almost waiting for someone to say, sorry, sorry, sorry, not your seven, another number seven. He comes off the field, doesn't throw a tantrum to his career, but you can see he's in disbelief though. He has like a, okay, I guess. I guess that happened, yes. I guess that happened. And then, a few moments later, Portugal gets their goal. Rafa Leão swings across in Yo boy He had swung crosses in for Ronaldo Yo man Ronaldo again Say what you want He had missed so many chances so many crosses up until that point He wasn't getting there Yes And then there you go Ramos comes in Gonzalo Ramos One cross and boom Game over And a fantastic goal And not just Okay I'll say this first of all before I talk about Gonzalo Ramos' goal I have to give kudos to Roberto Martinez I'm one of his biggest critics I think he wasted Belgium's golden generation of Kevin De Bruyne and Thibaut Coutoua and Romero Lukaku and Eden Hazard.
45:00Yeah. I think he, and Dries Martins, I think he wasted them. And I thought, even coming to this tournament, I think, I still think he might waste Portugal's golden generation. Yeah. But on the day, he made a ballsy, gutsy decision because before he took Ronaldo off, Portugal was being overrun in the middle because they had one man less in the middle because Ronaldo doesn't track back. That's why when Mateo Kovacic got that ball, he just ran through the middle. So he realized we need another body in the middle to staunch the floor. He brings on Ruben Neves. And I think you saw what happened. The game settled back into a 50-50.
45:36So that was ballsy. For me, that was an incredible... I didn't think Martinez had it in him. He brings on... So when he brings on Ruben Neves, Ruben Neves goes in the middle, then Gonzalo Ramos plays as the nine, which is where he thrives. The last time he repressed Ronaldo, he scored a hat-trick in Qatar. So, when he scores that header, part of the reason why I screamed that Ronaldo would never do that was, one, I'd seen crosses coming in and Ronaldo was not getting to the end of them. But also, two, Gonzalo Ramos, that was a tough header. He jumped in between three defenders. And to get that much direction and power.
46:13And power. But he's jumping in between three defenders. It was so good, man. I saw the former Liverpool defender, Croatian defender, talking about it. I think I remember him. He was a great Liverpool defender, kind of chaotic. And he said, I think Croatia gave the ball away because there's no way in my days a striker would have jumped between three defenders. One of you has to get to that ball. So it wasn't an easy header as people think it was. And so for me, that's what Gonzalo Ramos gives you. Gonzalo Ramos gives you a target man. Gonzalo Ramos gives you deadly finishing. Gonzalo Ramos gives you the ability to track and press that Ronaldo doesn't.
46:51I feel Ronaldo should be doing what Neymar did. I feel Ronaldo should be coming on the last 15 minutes, last 20 minutes against aging, tired defenders. Yeah, we've said this. Be a talisman player. Against tired minds. Yeah, be a talisman player. Let's get into a few predictions. Before we get into the predictions, I just want to talk about this one, and we disagreed, and I don't like when we do a podcast and we don't disagree. The Croatian goal. You called it immediately. You went like it was offside. Yes. I disagreed immediately. Yes. And I still disagree. The reason I disagree is this. I feel everyone focuses on the snickle.
47:26The board was attached by Matanovic or not. Yes. I think they're focusing on the wrong thing. The focus should be on was Renato Vega trying to make a defensive play. Because if you say it was unintentional, then the Croatian player was offside. Pasaric was offside. But for me, I argue that Renato Vega was making a defensive play. Why? So let me tell you why I think you lose this argument if you're going to do that. I think by the strict interpretation of the game, the player jumping that close to a ball in an offside way is offside, in my opinion. It is offside. You cannot... This thing of like, did they touch the ball or not, is irrelevant when the player is actively trying to play the ball and is this close to playing the ball.
48:10You know why? We have to defend them. The whole field has to shift with them The purpose of the offside rule Is to protect the game from an unfair advantage Or disadvantage, right? So if a player is jumping to head of the ball And they happen to miss it by a hair Let's say they didn't touch it How is that not offside? You made an active effort to play the ball Right? You made an active effort People had to defend you Because of your positioning The ball might have been missed by somebody else Or somebody got thrown off The same way if you block the goalkeeper's view And it's offside and offside You interfered with the play to me, whether you touched it or not, that is an offside.
48:43Okay, so here's where I disagree with you. For me, if it was a midfielder in that situation, and if Renato Vega hadn't stooped, if it had hit him while he was standing upright, it's unintentional and accidental. Renato Vega stoops. I've played as a defender. No, I'm saying I've played as a defender. Some people are saying he was ducking. A defender stoops to head the ball. So let me ask you, if I'm a defender, let me ask you this. Joe, I'm saying yours, you're measuring the wrong part of time. No, I'm saying they focused on the wrong thing. They focused on Matanovic. They should focus on Renato Vega.
49:14No, they can't though. They can't. Okay, let me ask you. It's like a mathematical equation. Okay. If, if, if. Okay, Trevor, let me ask you. So let's start with the first thing. Yes, okay. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a simple question. Simple question. Did the first man try to play the ball in an offside position? If he, yes. Did he or did he not? If Renato Vega doesn't touch it, yes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The first man, the man who jumps. He wasn't in offside. He wasn't offside. Matanovic wasn't offside. The offside player is Pasaric behind. Because when Matanovic touches the ball...
49:41Oh, yeah, okay. So you're saying if he doesn't touch it on the other side... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a goal. Because Pasaric was onside. No, no, no. But he wasn't playing it. No, no. Listen. So when the ball comes... No, but he wasn't playing it. When the ball comes in, Pasaric is onside. When Matanovic touches it with the hair, Pasaric is offside. But then the ball hits Renato Vega. So the reason I think Renato Vega was making a defensive play and it was intentional is because if that ball hits... Renato Vega on the forehead and goes out and goes back. It's a defensive clearance. But he screwed up his head and the ball hit him on the top of his head.
50:13Went to pass a reach. That's why for me, I'm going like they focused on the wrong play. The right play is Renato Vega. I think those things are all offside to me. I think they've made the offside rule too complicated. Too complicated. You're right. You're right. I think they've made it too complicated. Can we talk about the African teams, please? Because many of my friends were traumatized. By whom? By the way African teams crashed out. Senegal, African teams kept crashing out with 10 minutes to go. They were winning most of their games with 10 minutes to go. And most of my friends, because I picked, when we made the predictions, I got all the African teams right.
50:46I said Egypt and Morocco were progressing. I said the rest were going to be dumped out. And so my friends were asking me, why did I do that? And also part of the reason, why I wasn't heartbroken when African teams lost out. It's because I've been traumatized enough by African teams. In fact, Trevor, we shouldn't be holding this podcast in a chair, I should be on a couch because I'm going to throw my dump on you. So I've watched enough football to know that when it comes to the knockouts, African teams always find a way. For some reason, it could be structural, it could be psychological, I don't know what's happening, but African teams always find a way and unfortunately, mostly black African teams find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
51:28It started when I was a wee lad. I was really young. I think I was around 5 '6". I remember Cameroon 1990 World Cup I remember my father and my uncles and the whole village going crazy when Cameroon with nine men beat Diego Madonis Argentina in the opening game and this was the Cameroon team that's when we thought it was coming Pele in 1977 said an African team is going to win the World Cup by the year 2000 in 1990 we all believed I remember I was young and I think maybe it's not just my memory also because I've watched like clips afterwards I remember when Umam Big scored that header because that team was good.
52:03It had Roger Mira, Mambic, Cyril Makanaki, Thomas Sinkono, all these great players. When they beat Argentina with nine men, we went like, they're going to win it. They topped their group. They went into, they beat Romania 2-1. Roger Mira scoring a double. I remember the village going crazy. I was young, but you know, I think that's when I fell in love with this game. They went into the knockout rounds, round of 16, beat Colombia. Roger Mira, I remember clearly watching Roger Mira steal that ball from Rene Iguita scoring, going to the corner flag and just doing the dance. Yes. and we went like, this is it.
52:33They played England. Cameroon was eight minutes away from winning it. They considered a penalty. Gary Linnika scores, goes into extra time, Gary Linnika scores another penalty, Cameroon out. I remember the way the village felt after that. Nigeria? 1994, Nigeria. A famous Nigerian team, Peter Rufay and Rashidi Ekin, Samson Siasia. That was Emmanuel Ramoniki, Daniel Ramokachi, incredible Nigerian team that won the Nations Cup. They won the high. Everyone thought, this is it. They go, win their group again. Win their group again, Trevor. They reach the round of 16, play Italy. They are winning with, I think, two minutes to go.
53:13Roberto Baggio scores a goal. Extra time, Roberto Baggio scores again. They are out. I go like, okay, maybe that was bad luck. 1998, Nigerian team, same Nigerian team, now even better because they had Jeji Okocha, Nuanko Kanu, a better team. They humiliate Spain in the opening game, winning 3-2, famous goal by Olise. Long Ranger, winning that. I remember I was in high school and I went like, this is it. This is the team. Trevor, round of 16, because they had played so well. They were given Denmark. Everyone thought, this is a walkover. Denmark beat Nigeria 4-1. The game was over by the 15th minute.
53:51And I went like, you know what? I think I'm done. But then, because football keeps giving you hope, 2002, Senegal. First game against France. They win 1-0. Papa Bubadiop. Great team with Kalilu, Fadga, Elhaji, Jouf, Salif, Jouf, Liverpool. Incredible team. They beat Zidane. He wasn't playing, but he still beat France, who are the world champions. We go like, this is it. They go on, defeat Denmark. We are like, this is it. They reach. They play Turkey. Now we are just playing for an African team to reach the semifinals. They meet Turkey. Turkey beats them. last minute goal by Ilhan Mansi's. Yeah, Ghana against Uruguay.
54:30That's the one that they missed the penalty. That's the one that broke my heart. Yeah, they missed the penalty. 2010 World Cup. That's the first time that every African got really traumatized by an African team because Ghana get a penalty. Suarez did what Suarez had to do. Yeah, but they had the penalty. Penalty. I was watching that game. I was in South Africa as part of a delegation of African journalists who were like picked by readers to come and cover that game. I was watching it with my African friends. are gonna get the penalty with a minute to go and Asamoah Gian stands up, steps up and I tell my African journalist friends, I tell them he's going to miss.
55:03Then they go like, no, I tell them, guys, president, he's going to miss. I've watched enough games, he's going to miss. He steps up, hits that ball against a crossbar, gonna lose his letter. That's the first time I realized, oh, soccer fans hate the bitter truth because my friends didn't ask. So why do you think this? Why do you think this happens to African teams? I don't know, man. I can't play. I don't know whether it's structural or psychological. Witchcraft. I don't know what it happened. Why don't you look at witchcraft, Joe? White people watch witchcraft never works on us. What are you talking about?
55:30Why are you ignoring the elephants in the room, Joe? No, but I remember that day because no one asked me, how did you know, why? People were just, they felt like I was throwing them. They weren't like, why did you have to say it? They felt like, people felt like I had made him miss. And then - Witchcraft. And then you saw what happened in 2014 as well. You saw what happened. Algeria and Nigeria both make it. and they both lose with, both of them lose with like two minutes to go in their matches. For me, it's, and so that's why when you asked me last week which team is going to make it through, I was so sure all the black African teams would let us down and lose in heartbreaking fashion and I was only sure Morocco and Egypt would go through because Morocco showed me in 2022 that they don't have the psychological mental block.
56:17They will win games and I think you saw them against the Netherlands. Morocco against the Netherlands another team I'm sorry to say but I think another African team would have collapsed Morocco didn't Netherlands took the lead yeah they did and Morocco went like okay the Moroccan first of all let's just give for me my man of the week and I know the Cape Vod coach is amazing but my coach of the week Mohamed Owabi the coach of Morocco he was paracuted in with three months to go to handle this team in the World Cup because he helped Morocco win the under 20 World Cup just in last year he was paracuted in and has made this team his own against the Netherlands when Gakpo scored with just like what?
56:5514 minutes to go? No, I mean he played it. He brought on three 20-year-olds, Trevor. He didn't just bring on. He played it. He had Elkabi. No, he played it. He played it. He played it. I'm with you. He brought on 321. Trevor, the amount of bravery it takes to bring on three 20-year-olds, Morabert, who are the others? Gesami Hassan and Tabli. One of them ended up taking a penalty. A 20-year-old stood up and took a penalty and scored it. For me, that takes a certain amount of mental and psychological bravery. And that's why I'm backing Morocco to go. Not to go all the way because I think they are four years too short.
57:31I think they will win when they host it. Yeah. You don't think they're going to beat France? No, I think they'll fall short. I think they'll fall short this year. But they have such a young crack. They have such a young core. When you look at their midfield, we've been raving about Ayubouadi. Right? And yet there's other stars that have shown inside in that midfield. So I'll tell you this. Every midfielder in Morojo has stepped up. Ayububu Boud was amazing against Brazil. But then when I watched Netherlands, I think El Anoui is even a better midfielder. I think he should be playing for Barcelona.
58:01He's incredible. I haven't seen a midfielder break up play and launch attacks like that since Xavi. And then in the game, last game, guess who stepped up against Canada? Onahi. Every midfielder is stepping up. Brahim has four assists. Every midfielder is stepping up. Elkan House, who plays on the left, he's incredible tracking back all the time. So for me, I think this Moroccan team has something. It has like a resilience to it. But I think they're too short. I think they're winning in 2030. There's only one prediction I'm looking for here, Joe. USA-Belgium. I think Belgium. Because this was the game.
58:34I think Belgium is going to win. You think Belgium is winning? I think USA has run its course. I think all the host countries win. What has Belgium shown you that makes you think they're going to win? They've shown me that they have character. You think Team USA doesn't have character? My friend they came back and beat Senegal that was character Yuri Tillman My friend you're gonna say that they've shown that they have character I think when they came back against teams that you say crumble consistently What has Team USA shown you that doesn't say character? Okay let me explain it So I feel like in tournaments So here's what I think Here's what I think I think if Team USA runs them ragged in the first 45 Okay Team USA wins the game.
59:15I think Team USA has to take the game away from Belgium early because I think Belgium is relying on their prowess as a footballing nation, or rather the individual players like Lukaku, Kevin De Bruyne, Trossard, Thielemans, etc. But I don't think that they have the legs nor the stamina to win the game. But if the USA lets them play the game for enough time, I think that's why they'll lose. The reason I disagree with you is I think you're judging Belgium on how they've been playing this tournament. Yeah, you're not wrong. That's exactly how I judge them. I think, I think, I think. That's exactly how I judge them.
59:55And you're right, and you're right. But I think where you're slightly wrong is the result against Senegal changes everything. Oh, that's interesting. In tournament football. You think that's given them the turn. In tournament football, you need a moment that trauma bonds you for the team to come out. Yeah, you're a big fan of trauma bonding. So for Argentina, it was the loss of Saudi Arabia. And now you think it's Cape Verde for Argentina? It's Cape Verde. And now for Belgium, it was the... You need that thing where you go like, yo, we've been forged in fire. Okay. And then so for Morocco, it was the Netherlands?
1:00:24Yes. For France, it's Paraguay? Yes. Okay. So for you to win a tournament, you can't just stroll through the tournament. You've got to have your rocky moments. Yes, you're going to face a setback at some point. And whether you stand up or not, that's what tests you. So for me, I think Belgium, that moment remember they were fighting before that moment that moment bonded them as brothers and also makes you believe that hey we are invincible the Knicks the Knicks let's go back to basket baby the Knicks when they won that game when Oji Ananobi came in and bam you can't come back there's something that makes to it that gives to it there's a certain invincibility so for me I think Argentina we'll see what happens Argentina needed it against we'll see we'll see what happens I mean look it's one of those games I don't know who's going to win.
1:01:11It's not an obvious one. But I just wonder if having the president and the nation and Balogun and having that whole thing behind you, and I wonder if Belgium feels a little hard done by it. Does it work against them? It's going to be an interesting one. But let's wrap it there. Let's wrap it there and go watch a game. I think the hosts, their race is run. Mexico, the US, their race is run. Okay, well, let's watch the games and we'll see. I think Hurricane is going to kill Mexico today because they're going to try to play attacking football when they should be sitting back. Then let's watch the game.
1:01:38It's going to be fun. No, it's always fun. This has been fun, my friend. It's always fun. Let's see how the games play out.
1:01:48This segment is brought to you by Febreze. You know what's funny about soccer's growth in America? Everybody talks about the stadiums, the fans, the television audiences, the stars coming over to play here, but nobody talks about the smell. Think about it. More kids are playing soccer. More adults are playing soccer. More leagues, more tournaments, more gear. And every piece of that gear eventually ends up in a room exactly like this one. Which is why today we're doing an official smell draft. That's right. With the overall pick in the draft of smells, I am taking soccer cleats. No hesitation.
1:02:28Those things spend 90 minutes running through sweat, grass, mud, rain, sunshine, and occasionally somebody else's foot. Joe, what are you taking for the second pick? Oh, with the second pick, hands down, I'll take the gear bag. Because the gear bag isn't just one smell. It's an entire ecosystem. Actually, that's a good pick. I was hoping you wouldn't go with the gear bag. For the third pick, I'm going with the backseat of the car after practice. Yeah, parents, you know exactly what I'm talking about. You open the door, and immediately you realize the game has followed everybody home. Honestly, that's why this room is so confusing.
1:03:07Every instinct tells me that a professional boot room should smell terrible. This should be the place where we experience one of the strongest home field advantages of sports. And yet somehow it smells fresh. That's because Febreze fabric is built for the things you can't throw in the wash. The cleats, the bags, the car seats, all the places where the game really leaves its mark. If your soccer gear is starting to smell like its own locker room, it's time for Febreze Fabric. It doesn't just mask odors. It helps fight them. Oh, yeah. Find Febreze Fabric at Walmart. Man, you nailed that spray. That was amazing.
1:03:53You see how fresh it got in this room? What Now World Cup bonus episodes are produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. Executive produced by Trevor Noah. Sanaz Yamin, Ryan Harduth, and Rebecca Shane. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join us every Monday during the World Cup for bonus episodes of What Now? with Trevor Noah.
1:04:26Thanks again to Febreze for sponsoring this episode. Febreze is the official odor fighter of Major League Soccer. That's the point. Febreze fabric is for everything the game touches that the washing machine can't. You're not changing anything, it was really fresh after the first spray. I feel like you're just having fun with the bottle now. I just have too much. No one man should have all that power.
From the publisher
The knockout rounds have turned the 2026 FIFA World Cup upside down. In this week’s World Cup bonus episode, Trevor and Joe break down Germany’s stunning penalty shootout collapse, Cape Verde’s remarkable performance against Argentina, and FIFA’s decision to overturn Florian Balogun’s red card suspension, before making their predictions for the next week of matches.
New bonus episodes drop Mondays at 10pm ET / 7pm PT on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
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