Zohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In

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3:00Congratulations, by the way. Thank you very much. What did he win? Very much. Huh? He won an all-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side. All-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side. Call a number. What number, Mayor, are you, by the way? They're saying it's 112. No ways. Peaches and Cream. What? They should sing at your inauguration.

3:26You know what's stuck in my head? What? Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Yes. Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me. We made Sound City. Top 10. That was me the whole. Songs of the week. You don't even understand the whole. Top 10. Who's that other guy? Hab. You aged Hab, yeah. Yeah, I grew up with him. Where is he? He's in Kampala. Has he reached out to you? Yeah, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend. When you won, did H-U-D say, you did it? We were like, is it H-A-B or is it Hab? H-A-B. It is H-A-B, right? So it's H-A-B. Hab, Hab. Sorry, I thought you were asking me this. No, I didn't know if it's, we were like, because it was all in caps.

4:06Then we were like, is it Hab or is it H-A-B? Did Hab text you and go, how did you convince them? Because I'm sure Hab remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station in Kampala, trying to get your song played. Then he was like, you couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala. How did you do this? The whole of New York, how? You know the reason his name is Hab? Tell me. if we're off the record nothing is off nothing's off the record don't say anything when the red light is on nothing is let me tell you the first thing can I tell you I'll give you a tip that I learned like very early on with the Daily Show and everything nothing is off the record and you're never gonna know no no when you when you walk out the room let me explain let me explain when you walk out this has always fascinated me in America is when I'll see people like some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something.

5:01And it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes. Sorry, sorry. No, not Kanda, man. Remember the ninjas who were dancing? That was the other video, though. For what I know. Yes, yes. That was that one. So, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja. You're lying. For that video. And the director of the video taped over that part. No! No, man. So it's gone. That middle ninja stole the show, though. yeah there was one there was one ninja in one of the too much swag for a ninja I was like this one this ninja is black this is a black ninja oh man yeah tell me about this thing about America because I'm trying to learn as much as I can yeah so what I was saying is like I was always intrigued by how people would trust just like a handshake agreement everywhere people like oh this is off the record but there's a camera rolling and the sound recording and we're like this is off the record and then 10 years later or 5 years later or even a day later the clip comes out and then people are like but that was behind the scenes you're like yes there's a camera when you're wearing a microphone when there's a microphone when there's a camera it's somewhere because the editor was like I'm not part of your agreement it's somewhere remember grab them by the pussy I wasn't there but why are you saying do I remember Zoran please I'm leaving this between you guys the way he said do you remember you're right actually I shouldn't have done it made it seem like I accept your apology yeah I apologize but my point is that was all off camera You know who also owes That was all off camera Who?

6:30The editor that edited Zoran's dad out of the I still can't believe He recorded But that's how you Yes Oh by the way This is a special Like this is I was like How do we make this time Special with you And I thought to myself You've got Zoran Mamdani On the podcast But I was like You know how many tie-ins We have in our lives Right So Born in Africa born in Africa then Ugandan right born in Uganda then I was like do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life in my head I thought to myself I was like I collect Ugandans and I was like but you can't say that don't say it like that no no no I'm saying I wasn't going to say it this is off the record just taking us through this is off the record I'm letting you know what was in my head this is off the record so you can't use it against me so then I was like I collect Ugandans and I was like but you can't say it like that so you gotta be like I have a lot of you I don't know how this happened I have a lot of Ugandan friends of ugandan friends you say like it's a like a problem no no no you made it sound like a problem don't put that on you see how it feels like don't put that someone puts you in a scene you owe me an apology i'll take my apology now which camera not to me this is not about the deposition this is straight to me straight to me i'll take my apologies on i apologize thank you thank you very much so then i was like i'm just gonna bring them all in so i like my best friend who's Indian my other best friend who's Ugandan and South African they've even got microphones they can just throw things in where in Uganda by the way Kampala this was born where were you born in Kampala Magere okay in Sambia Hospital oh wow yeah I moved to South Africa like you I can hear yeah and New York like you you guys hated that place which place South Africa or Uganda two places before you were like uh-uh uh-uh it actually is a crazy story think about it yeah you guys both came from Uganda I mean you're not helpful to me because my parents are like I mean look at my Zoran I'm sorry man I'm sorry he's raised the ceiling for what's possible they thought you had achieved and now they're like wait you could have done this this is what you could have done how many people are Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day like there's got to be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably the most important cities in the world h-a-b oh h-a-b yeah hub not hub oh different hub hub think of hub no but but there must be like genuinely just on like a personal level there must be a ton of people out there who go they just know you as Zoran and then now you are Zoran Mamdani the next mayor of New York City I mean it's it's true not just in Kampala but also here in New York City I mean there are people I would play in a rec soccer team with and I was just reading this article today about about a lot of their reactions and reflections do you still play with them?

9:43I haven't in a while why not? I saw you still have the skills by the way I was very impressed highly edited no no no you can't edit those skills no no no you're lying no you can't edit those skills what position did you play? I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back that's where I am I started my journey at left back you know when people say you know when people say I fell off to your position yeah I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time That's me Trevor That's me I genuinely love that for you man Thank you How much has your life changed now Like is it And I don't know if this is just Anecdotal But we were chatting with Ryan about this We were going It feels like your social media Has gotten a little more serious now Which makes sense But I don't know if that's just How it looks Do you feel like a more serious shift In your life I think I don't feel burdened by it I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness.

10:49You can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity. Right. And I think for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives, it's amazing. And then there's also parts of it that are absurd. You know, like I told my landlord I was moving out. And she was, you know, jokingly saying, you know, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to.

11:30I remember everybody knows. Yeah, everyone knows everything about you. Everybody knows everything. Like this is your life. Yeah. Forevermore, this is your life. It'll never be the same after this moment. It won't. But I think that's what I love, though, is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now. You know, I think like for my wife and I, we going out at night, like going for a walk at night. Yeah. It has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity. Right. And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of decision.

12:07Oh, OK. Do you have a night voice? It would be I'm Zoran You can't still be Zoran with a night voice Mr. Cardamom Yes Mayor Cardamom Mayor Cardamom to you When the nights of New York get rough And Zoran can't do it I'm here Hey! That's what I'm talking about Yes! That's it Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now after this Need a boost? Sometimes all it takes is tapping into your inner cool. Icebreaker's gum helps you unleash the confidence within. Each chew releases a rush of icy flavor powered by cooling flavor crystals, sending a wave of refreshment to reinvigorate all your senses. Icebreaker's convenient pack fits everywhere, from car cup holders to backpack pockets, so you can find your cool wherever you go.

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14:07That's what I'm talking about. All right, so I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, you're a very busy person now, and you're doing all these things. I was trying to think, if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you want to build it, how you want to change it, what you want to improve, what you think the challenges will be, etc. It's like the job, job part of it.

14:35The second part of it is the human being. And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, it's either like caricatures of people who hate you or just like pieces about what you want to do. But people sort of don't know you, you. And I think a lot of people would like to know who the human being is behind some of these ideas and then the last part is just like random shit that we'll talk about like because you're also like a person you see like now you you did a joke with us i think you're the first politician i know who's ever told me like a joke maybe obama was the first time where i was like oh this person actually knows humor do you know what i mean but you're just like a like a dude you're just like a guy just a guy yes at night

15:25Oh man So let's Okay let's talk about New York Wait hold on Where are you from? South Africa We're in South Africa Born in Pretoria Okay But now living in Does this count against our time By the way Sorry You know I love you Eugene I just want to know If this counts against our time Wait What did you say? Does this count against our time? No before that You know I love you Eugene

15:54you finally got it you finally got it how many podcast episodes does this take thank you you are loved thank you you are seen thank you you are enough is this what it took so is this come on Johannesburg by way of Pretoria South Africa Johannesburg by way of Pretoria South Africa Josie stand up come on you know this so let's talk about New York and then we'll go we'll go through your life sorry Eugene because now they're going to be like we've run out of time and then I'll be like some of that time was taken by Eugene you know what we can even do we can edit you in saying things about your life we just when you leave you're just going to sit here and just be like and then I and we'll put that in We'll call Ryan to double.

16:39Yeah, and then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zoran stunt double. And then you must just like, yeah. But anyway, so let's... Sorry. Actually, run us through the process, right? Like, what are the orders of business that you're doing right now? Like, let's go from the shortest term and let's build out as your job as mayor. So what are you doing right now? Right now is the transition period. Okay. So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants who are making hiring decisions, we're building out the team. So it's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election, everyone knows about January 1st, and then you have these two months in between.

17:18And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry. We want to get ahead of January 1st. We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January 1st. And what this also means is we want to build that team. So, so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions. What do you base that on when you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate, right? So, if you had come through the regular pipeline of, oh, establishment, establishment, I almost feel like it would have been pre-picked for you in a weird way.

18:00It would have been who you knew. Yeah, because we always see that happen, right? It's like when Hillary Clinton was running, then you'd be like, the person she's going to pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person. You're like, oh, it's all like the same team. And then you just shift around who's where. You get what I'm saying? Yours is different though. So how do you pick and where do you pick? I think it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating actually to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know, not be like - Unburdened.

18:30You're just actually making decisions based on do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency with what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government. Okay. Right? So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government. But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulahan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for Adani Chai at Kahwa House, he told me about how he transformed - Adani Chai, like the drink?

19:12Like the drink. Okay. You ever had Adani Chai? Just making sure. Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming - Variations of it. I've had variations of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm right here. The closest - I'm right here. Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking. You owe - He monitors You owe Zoran He monitors Give me an apology You owe I apologize I accept Shab But yes I've had chai Shab shab Shab shab Shab shab Shab shab So yeah So you were sitting down Having chai And he talked about how he Transformed the culture Of the Office of Management And Budget From a culture of no To a culture of how And to me That is an example Of what we're trying to do With government Because when you'll say You have an ambitious policy proposal.

19:54You want to deliver universal childcare. You want to make buses fast and free. There will be so many people you can find who can tell you it's impossible to do that. And the people you're actually looking for are not the ones who tell you it's easy. They're the ones who tell you it's difficult and here's how they're actually going to do it. So you're interviewing people for the job or you're picking people for the job and you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position.

20:19Because that's the weird paradox, right? You've never been mayor of New York and now you're going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what are you looking for in those people where you go, hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can? Vision. You're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about. There's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale and you're looking at, you know, we're talking about positions that oversee agencies of tens of thousands of people.

20:48There's a temptation to say, I'm just going to keep the trains running on time. But that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve. Why do you think, or do you think, because I mean, I do, so I don't want to bias you, but it feels like particularly in America, maybe other parts of the world it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping and then liberals or progressives or however people want to you know left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like hey hey hey hey hey hey it it let's just keep it working well and you can't really change much you can't like do you know how many interviews of yours i've watched where people say zoran now i agree with your politics i i love what you're saying But I just don't know that we can do it.

21:45I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't. But not once have I seen somebody interviewing like Trump, for instance, on a right wing platform go like, ah, dog, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big ass wall. How are you going to do it? Do you get what I'm saying? I do. I think it's you have people. It seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination. Yeah. And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. it's it's right here yeah you know and we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice and neither of these are enough you have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this because this life already is suffocating people i sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.

22:37Tell us more. Look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know, you will tell me. Wait, there's one thing I will tell you. Hello. Is when I'm wrong. Am I allowed to speak? Yeah. I like that you say that into a microphone. As if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak. Am I allowed to speak? You literally look, you know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those like town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works. Or Ed Chekker is about to make an announcement. But let me say this point and then yes. Before you say this point though, did you steal this point from me?

23:14There's a distinct possibility. As friends, we all... No, no, continue, continue. As friends, I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends, but if my friend has a great idea... It's mine. It becomes a part of my thinking. This point might have come by way of a friendship tapawai. That's exactly what it is. And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's inside. Preach, Eugene. Preach. Tell people about these relationship Tupperwares. Instead of focusing on where the Tupperwares ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupperwares.

23:46And enjoyed it. And enjoyed it. And shared it. And he may return it with another meal inside. That's true. That's true. Many of the ideas that you have came from me. And some of that, which idea of yours did I? No.

24:00So The owner of the idea To me The owner of the idea Is not important I think good ideas Should live beyond people But If you think about religion And how In most parts of the world Religion is declining But it's declining In areas where people Are particularly Left leaning Or progressive You know what I mean You see it I don't think religion I think faith Is declining Yeah, but the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you're in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater.

24:41And even though you cannot see it, you believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust. Really? Still have that faith. And it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered and thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.

25:21How do you find... And just real quick, I just want to know, like, this is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is. You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists. So one part of it is because of like a mud and a sludge. and the other one is because just life is like that so how how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go all right zoran this thing you did achieve so that's one side but for the things that you you didn't like how would you want people to judge your your failures which are inevitable in anything that people do we we built a campaign around three policy commitments yeah freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal childcare.

26:23We have to deliver these things. Okay. That's non-negotiable. To me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question, this is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying yeah they are just admitting defeat from the beginning you know they're describing something as unrealistic or impossible um madiba said it's always seems impossible until it's done nelson mandela for those who don't know can i ask a question you're gonna say nelson mandela took that from you as well i know how you work i know the shit that you're gonna say he's gonna be like where did he get that idea where did he get that idea who was in prison with him mr oh i'm the only person with ideas please share some with us before he says something i'd like to say it probably wasn't his idea because he's been quiet when you started speaking he didn't say anything the title was my idea you know when you get those movies that have the same title but it's a different movie the title was my idea but like the one where the oh no no okay so now uh may elect mamdani do you know your powers you know like because you run for mayor but at some point there's like you have powers certain powers so do you know them all is do they give you like a book these are your actual powers they they don't give you a book do you know i'm saying you know what i mean like no i i i do i have i have um definitely an awareness of of what power this job comes with i'll give you an example on the three policies i was speaking of the first one freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants city of eight and a half million people about two and a half million live in housing called rent stabilized housing okay right and what does that mean just because i i see people conflate yeah stabilized versus rent control is a very small proportion we're talking about what is rent stabilized what does that mean rent stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in new york city okay and it means that their rent whether it will increase or stay the same is determined by a board called the rent guidelines board okay the board is composed of nine appointees all of whom are appointed by the mayor.

28:40Yes. So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams more than 12%. So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve. Okay. So that's, sorry, just to clear that up. So that is like, you know the question, because sometimes when it comes to politics, people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on it's like, Like, no, technically I didn't have that power. You know that kind of thing. No, people try to obfuscate what their responsibility is.

29:12Yes, exactly. The second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany, state government. The reason that it was at a core part of my campaign, though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them will require state partnership. because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre-K.

29:49That was done by the previous mayor, Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it. And he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built. And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do. But all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not actually my jurisdiction.

30:29you should call this person or you should call at that level being the mayor of this city comes with immense power not to say total power at all but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need that's where I see the possibility in these three things so okay great this is great wait you know when you when you say the thing about the book of power it makes me think of like I think you and I actually had this conversation we talked about how mostly me giving ideas we talked about how again i don't care where good ideas come from no you know uh my idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos um but no but we had this conversation about we talked about we're talking about trump and we literally we we joked and we said it feels like trump was the first person to read that book do you know what i mean because there's so many things done no because there's so many things where trump is doing it and then people are like can a president do that And then it's like, oh yeah, he can.

31:25And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things. And I think that's sort of what the question is. And I think it's, look, we have this transition. We have four incredible co-chairs. One of them is Lina Khan. And Lina Khan. Can we get Lina Khan on the show, by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings. No, can I tell you? We'll have a separate conversation about this. I'll tell you why. I hate. Let's take away from our time. Yes. But it'll add time value. It'll add value. No, I'll tell you why. Lena Khan, like you see on a wall of like superheroes, the way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions, and you know this as my friends.