AJ Lee

36:33And then once I felt like I had perspective on it and I was like, okay, I feel like the worst days might be behind me. I was wrong. But then I decided to talk about it. Because, again, like, even if, like, I lost everything, and if no one ever wanted to hire me again, at least I could let somebody feel less alone. Yeah. And you were willing to share the most vulnerable side of you. It was scary. Yeah, I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I came out as bipolar in my book. and that was the first time that was the first time okay but the week before my book came out I put like a post on my website about it because I didn't want it to be like like a surprise like you're gonna read a mental health book it's gonna get dark so I wrote this thing in my website and I swear to god I got my first gray hair really so stressed

37:33alfalfa like popped out of my head and it was just I was so stressed about like I thought the world was going to like make fun of me and like shun me it was the scariest and you did it anyway I did it anyway but the world surprises you and they were so loving and so they embraced it and it's interesting because I feel like there's a lot that's like correlated with feeling like outcast and feeling like you don't belong that very much dovetails into like the mental health community and so in wrestling I had built this like bond with the fans where they um were so supportive and loyal and like had my back and it's it wasn't just because of me it was because of the message the mission statement was like weirdos for the win like we that you being different is what's special about you and like embrace that thing and we can create our own group um we don't have to fit in anywhere and that almost like made this like connection for life we're like i've been talking to the same fans for like 15 years like they've been with me ride or die um but then i I feel like that bond got really deepened talking about mental health because I feel like we were all hiding it.

38:42Yeah. And a lot of times isolation and loneliness can trigger mental health symptoms. Or if you are dealing with a mental illness, you do isolate yourself and you do feel different. You do feel alone. So they are so interwoven. So adding that to sort of the tribe made people feel seen. and I had never felt a connection like that since I started doing speeches and advocating for mental health. I bet you helped so many people. That's exactly what I was thinking. Because so many people struggle. I struggle. I mean, so many people struggle. I think it's human, you know, and of course there's varying levels of it, but it's so human to beat yourself up.

39:31It's so human to get inside your own head and that spiral can be steep and deep. And you talking about it probably made people who were feeling the same way feel okay about themselves and feel like maybe I could talk about myself too. Maybe I need help. Right. You know, and I'd love to know from your perspective for anybody who's listening or watching, who's maybe feeling that way right now. How can they get help? Like, how do they do that? So a lot of times people will say the first step is asking for help. And what I have learned in my from my experience is that if you do have resources, that is wonderful.

40:19Go ask for help. But a lot of times you're in that situation where you're struggling because you don't have anyone ask for help. so like you almost feel more isolated when someone's like just go to like an adult you trust maybe you don't have anyone you trust so I'd like to first and foremost tell people you can do it on your own you can educate yourself you can have empathy for yourself give yourself the grace of like a lot of people are dealing with this um if it's not you it's someone you love like it is it's like one in three people deal with like some form of um mental struggle so it's very common one in three.

40:52Yeah. There's like no shame. And it takes about 10 years for people to go from your symptom onset to a diagnosis. So you have 10 years of just questions and being like, what's happening to me? Do you think your condition continues to evolve and that's why it's tricky? Or do people not ask the right questions or? Yeah, it's a little bit of both. So a lot of times there is sort of like, what's the easy diagnosis or like people will think they're exhausted or they'll think they're just insomniac or they'll think they're maybe just depressed. But there's so many conditions that have like overlapping symptoms.

41:29So it's really hard. Sometimes you have to go multiple times to get the correct diagnosis. Sometimes you have to be diagnosed wrong, unfortunately. But I always say start with yourself, educate yourself. You can go to like nonprofit organizations, have like wonderful websites. Like NAMI.org is one I think that helps everybody. It's very general. N-A-M-I dot org. It's the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I am an advocate for them. I do speeches for them. They're wonderful. They're very generalized. Then there's like specialized resources. So there's, you know, Latinx therapy. There's so many cultural specifications of like nonprofit organizations that.

42:10And why is that important? So it's, there's a lot of barriers to treatment for communities of color. We, in general, our culture does not talk about our feelings as much. We also have a shame about sharing any struggle outside of the family. You don't ask anyone for help. You keep it, you don't air our dirty laundry, essentially. And then, let's say you, there's a lot of healthcare deserts. There's a lot of Medicaid lacking of resources. There's a lot of distrust in the medical community that is fairly earned from our cultures being experimented on and with other knowledge and not being believed when it comes to our pain.

42:56You know, there's there's high maternal mortality rate because brown and black women aren't believed when they say that they're in pain when they go to deliver a baby. So there's this like really kind of earned distrust in the medical field and that that bias. But then let's say you go through these hurdles and you go to therapy. 86 % of providers are white. And so there's this lack of cultural competence. So, for example, if they don't have the language or they don't understand the way we sort of like tuck our emotions in, you could go in, you could say, I'm not sleeping. And a doctor will be like, okay, you're an insomniac.

43:32Here's the sleeping pill. But really, you're depressed and that's why you're not sleeping. And our culture tends to, especially because of the language barrier, explain the somatic symptoms. So they'll say, I'm exhausted. I'm not sleeping. I have headaches. I don't have energy. And instead of really explaining that deep pain. Right. And so. And you might not know how to explain. You might not know how to explain. And then all the way. And then when you have someone who's ignorant. Yes. They don't know how to pull it out. Exactly. Yeah. Because maybe it works for 90 % of their other patients. They'll open up on their own.

44:07But then we're also just not represented in clinical trials and research. So the system itself is not prepared for us in any way. So it's sort of a miracle to even get into therapy in the first place. And you might not find the right provider. So since it's such an uphill battle, I always encourage people to look for specialized resources for your community. the jed foundation uh is is an amazing one for um lgbtqia plus youth um represent um they you know that's very specialized care um and right now one of the things i uh was really proud to be a part of was like sort of the the rally to get 988 um instated it used to be really long like 1-800 number um they just lost a lot of funding which is really heartbreaking for their like specialized services the specialized services got a million calls last year and now they don't exist so where do those million people call now um when they are they have suicide ideation it really breaks my heart um but where can they call just just some of these that 988 is what we got right now there might not be specialized services so i don't know anything What are you talking about 988?

45:22So 988 is the suicide lifeline. It used to be a 1-800 number. And it was like really hard to get people to like remember the whole thing. So there was like this sort of campaign for maybe like five or six years of trying to get sort of a 911 equivalent. Okay. And it's different in every single state. There's not like a curriculum that every single state has agreed on. So they're all sort of different depending on where you live. um but it is they're trained to sort of listen to you if you're dealing with suicide ideation call you help if you need it but being you're not forced upon you it's very non-judgmental and it is a lifeline for a lot of people who are in maybe a crisis at that moment yes and they used to have specialized care for like the lgbt community and that got cut recently and so now it's like well where do these million people go?

46:20We're trying to fight and get them more resources. But right now I would say look for the most amazing, like Trevor Project. There's nonprofit organizations that are like fighting so hard. Human Rights Campaign, they did this shirt. There are organizations fighting for you. We just have to like kind of join together and fight a little harder. And Joe, can we please put these links in the episode? Great. Thank you. Of course. Of course, because I don't want someone listening and trying to write it down and miss it. What was that? Well, this in particular is for the Trans Lifeline. That's another one that's very specialized.

47:00And so it's Trans Awareness Week. But yeah, so that is my first suggestion always is to educate yourself. Know that you can find tools online privately, discreetly. You can call these numbers. You can figure out what providers maybe are in your area that take your insurance. But that's like another step, right? It's really expensive. And what if you don't have insurance? If you don't have insurance. And sometimes even if you do have insurance, the people who will take your insurance will only take you once every six months. Like you'll have to wait six months. But if you're in a crisis today. Right, you need help immediately.

47:39That's why I think you don't have access to the internet or. Exactly. So a lot of times you depend on these nonprofit organizations who are providing services for free. But if you are able to, you know, educate yourself, give yourself a little bit of grace, get to help eventually talk to other people. I would always say like create, try and create some form of community, whether it is a counselor, a teacher. It doesn't have to be your parents. If it's your parents, amazing. but someone who you feel is responsible who can maybe see those different changes in you and one of the things I always say to people that has really helped me is when you hear or feel

48:23that sort of darkness that negative voice I say to name it oh that's so interesting it very much helps because a lot of times with like depression and suicide ideation you think it's you thinking these things, that there's only one way out, that you're not worth anything. And I have named her Jean because Jeanette's my middle name. And every time I hear her, I'm like, you bitch. Shut up, Jean. Yeah, Jean is a liar. Yeah. And you have to know that it's not you. It is some other piece of you that doesn't want the best for you. And it's a liar. And it's going to go away eventually. So you sort of have to just name it.

49:04No, it's not you. put it to the side and try and keep it in check. So you don't address it, you put it to the side? I like, she's there, I know she's there, but she's not me. Like she's not gonna sit here or here and tell me what I am. And that's a conscious thought, to keep her on the side. Definitely, and so every time I sort of, you know, my husband and I joke about like, my dark days, if I wake up and it's a dark day, you know, Jean's being a real bitch today. And we have to sort of keep her in check. So that's what I always say, that helps you recognize that you're starting in sort of those spirals or those patterns.

49:39So calling it out is helpful to prevent the spiral. Definitely. I think so. And I just wish people knew when you're in those moments, it is so all-encompassing. It really feels like there is no way out. It feels there are times when it can feel like an actual death. It can feel like grieving. and you were so far deep in this hole and uh there is a way out and you do come out on the other side eventually and you see it with such a perspective where you're like whoa that was a close one um and I just like wish I could tell everyone in the world who's like going through it like there is a way out just literally have to take it one day by the next day and fake it sometimes fake like I feel better and like take a shower and that's your accomplishment for the day wonderful brush your teeth amazing like put on a bra what because personal hygiene can take a back seat it really does like there were days when literally like putting on pants that weren't pajamas was like such a an accomplishment for me and um like give yourself credit for for the tiny bits that you can do um but yeah I wish I wish everyone could have could get therapy and And how important is the credit?

50:56Right. And like you talked about having empathy for yourself. And I think that and I love the message that you can do it yourself. And it's not just about a trusted adult, because I've given many speeches and talking points. And that's always like the first one they want to say is go find a trusted adult, which I'm not saying is wrong. But to your point, there are a lot of people who don't have adults they can trust. And knowing that you have it within you, you know, is really important. Yeah. And that you need help. Definitely. You know, but that you can start with yourself. And how do you, when you're in such a dark, lonely place, how can you have empathy for yourself?

51:40I, I, I, the dedication of my book was actually to every girl who needs a hero and doesn't yet realize that she will save herself. That she's her own hero. Yeah. Like you. Yeah, you sort of have to be in this world. And a little bit of that comes from like, you know, sort of a hard jaded exterior of like, all you got is you, baby. But also there's something quite wonderful about that because love has to start here. There's no person in the world that's going to complete you. There's no like thing, accomplishment that you're going to get that then I'll be happy once I do this. Like that is all that is sprinkles on the cupcake.

52:23I always say like you have to be the whole cupcake. You have to love yourself first. And so that starts with like giving yourself grace and forgiveness. And this is sounds so ridiculous. But when I was like at my absolute worst depression, which was not too long ago, maybe like five or something years ago, I had a really bad depressive cycle that I've talked about before. But it got pretty dangerous. and it felt like I died and was reborn. And as I was like, because it was such a deep hole and as I was coming out of it, I just learned to love myself so deeply because I felt empathy for this person who felt so weak and felt alone.

53:06And I would like, be like, I'm going to hug you. Like, I got you, babe. Like, I'm - No shame in hugging yourself, by the way. Yeah, man. And like that would help me. And I would literally, you know, be like, I have my back and I can accomplish anything in this world. Like if I can't kill me, nothing can. Wow. And I just, I knew. Is this one of those moments where you say something that's like very traumatic and you laugh about it and everyone else in the room is like, damn. That quote just like took my breath away. I don't know. I just really felt like I learned to love myself first and everything else is extra.

53:49But you had to go. I mean, that was not that long ago. No. And it was like, that's the thing with. It's a process. It is a process. The journey is never linear. And so a lot of times people almost like approach it with me as if like I'm healed. There is no healing. Like you have to continue to fight every single day and stay on top of it. And there are things that you can't control that are just going to throw your mood to a different level. And with bipolar disorder, you cycle. And sometimes you really can't help it if you're on a manic cycle or depressive cycle. So I couldn't help it. It just took me out.

54:20And there was a lot happening that helped throw me into it. But I got myself out. And the second I decided to forgive myself and be kind to myself and sort of take it day by day and say, okay, what are you capable of today? The world cracked open for me. and I feel like that's happened a few times in my life um but that yeah that really was when like my writing career took off and all these like dreams that I I felt like I manifested came true and what are some of the projects that you worked on coming out of that that you're so proud of oh my gosh so I wrote my first movie it was an action movie that was like in the top three on Netflix for like a month and then and what's it called it's called Blade of the 47 Ronin and it was like female samurais was like this badass chick movie um i like and no interest to star in it well i do that separately

55:20oh my gosh yeah i've gone to acting movies and tv shows and they're always like but please plug plug plug away i'm in sacramento with um kristin stewart and michael cera and that's on hulu i did heels which is on netflix now um i just did a short film and called like the tide and i I started a production company called Scrappy Art Productions. And the idea behind that was like, me and my writing partner are so, everything we have, we had to really fight and scrap for ourselves. And her and I are two Latinas that like didn't see ourselves on television. And we would have to be like - You mean as examples?

55:57Yeah, as examples. Like as kids, it'd be like, okay, well, I guess that one's brunette. So that's me, I guess. But like, you know, they weren't our culture. They didn't represent us in any way. But you took what you could get back in the day. And we didn't realize that we just became that for ourselves. You know, if we couldn't see it, we could be it. And so we literally just put ourselves on television. Awesome. And so when we realized we had the same goals of like, now let's create more roles for the next generation. We teamed up and created this production company. We are developing a TV show.

56:31We have, we just wrote our second feature. I think I have permission to say it. Yeah, I'm like, what can you talk about? So as another example, I think this is the first time anyone's hearing this. So we're breaking news. Big deal. Breaking news. Here we are. Another example of like manifestation. One of my favorite. I love anime so much. And so one of my favorite companies growing up was Toei. They did Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z and like these things that raised me. And so we were writing a movie for Toei Animation. Wow. I think that's all I can say. Okay. But just such a dream come true to be in their office and see all Dragon Ball Z figures everywhere.

57:12Yeah, I bet. You must have walked in and just ganked out. Lost my mind. It's like, can I move in here? Yes. Yeah. Yes. We produced our first short film that made it to Tribeca Film Festival. Wow. And what was that about? So that is called, so my gift in this world is branding. But that's weird. Yeah. I mean, I hear my merch does really well. You know, I've got a gift for this. It does. Yeah. So I everything in our company, I've always come up with like the titles for for some reason. It just like hits me. Right. And so this movie is about a 40 year old woman who has her first orgasm. Wow. And she comes from this very religious Latino family.

57:58And so it's like very much unlearning repression and and stopping the cycle of putting everyone before yourself. And so it's called Amy Comes First. Oh, I love this. Phenomenal. I love this. Thank you. So we're now trying to do the feature version. And does she have her first orgasm by herself or with a partner? Well, we're going to have to see the feature and find out. We will be tuning in. But it really is about self-care. Yeah. And the importance of self-care. Yes, it is. Yes. And that it's not taboo. Yes. Yes. And so it's really just like trying to tell these like underdogs sort of cultural stories, but from a universal lens.

58:38Like their stories don't just have to be like Latinx stories. It doesn't have to just be our trauma. But they're rooted in the Latinx culture. Yeah, our perspective is so singular. That's like, what does this universal story feel like when you come from this kind of family, when you come from this sort of world? And so that's sort of the goal all the time is making underdogs the stars of their own stories. I just wrote my first original feature by myself. I'm so excited. I might make it a comic book first, but it's a horror movie. And it's like this mental health horror story. That sounds awesome.

59:11Thank you. It is my child. So hopefully I can throw that out into the world soon. Okay. Do you have a title for that one or are you too early to share anything? I might not be able to share it, but I will share it soon. Okay. But yeah, so that's what we're working on now is a bunch of film, TV, lots of books. Our first original book just came out called Day of the Dead Girl. And it's like a Latina Mulder and Scully, essentially, in the X-Files. That's cool. Except they're mom and daughter. So it's a lot of that tension. So, yeah. Oh, and your perspective of mother-daughter. Yes. Yes. It's fraught.

59:53But so just a lot of different fun stories and representing these little pockets of the world that I feel like aren't, a light isn't shown on them and sort of showing the joy of our culture and how we're just American like everybody else. We just have like a different perspective, just like our moms maybe like take off their chancla, you know, like and threaten you with it. And like, but you know. Mine had a flip-flop. There you go, see? We're the same. So that's sort of what we're working on now. And I'm just so proud of it. And it was interesting to be able to like dovetail that into wrestling.

1:00:33The first television show I produced was an all women's wrestling show. So it was like everything kind of comes together. The first acting job I did was a wrestling show, you know. So to me. It's funny how it all pieces together. You have to like every piece of your story creates you. And I'm so proud of what I built here and the fans that stood by me who go to medical conferences just to like hear my speeches. and like wearing wrestling merch. That's amazing, really? Yeah. I suppose it actually doesn't surprise me because I do think we have the most amazing fans in the world. And if they identify with you and relate to you, I mean, they are.

1:01:12They're your tribe for life. Genuinely. Yes. And it, you know, I feel like I was built to take on their stories. And so when I do signings and they come up to me and they tell me their mental health journey, sometimes it's the first time they're saying it out loud and I feel like I was built in this world to do that to like absorb it and be like yes take it off your shoulders give it to me and it is the most meaningful thing I could ever do in this world and like if I was done tomorrow I'd be like yep I did it because that is this connection that it felt like that was my purpose in the world was to help people feel less alone but I hope they know that in like my hard times they have helped me feel less alone because I feel weird and alone and isolated and, you know, hopeless sometimes.

1:02:03And then you see these people who you've affected and who root for you still. In every way. Yeah. And it just, it really heals you. To the point where you came back. Yeah. And you, by the way, I didn't miss a beat. Thank you. Like amazing. And you cut this promo. Oh my God. And you talked a little bit about your journey. Yeah. And the crowd actually started chanting therapy. In what world? Yeah, only WWE. I was so, that was like a genuine.

1:03:07reaction of like being stunned. as we're chanting therapy. And then everyone started doing it and my mind exploded. Because I think, you know, if you have like a sort of a judgmental idea of what you think like wrestling crowds could be, you don't think they're like in touch with their emotions and so open-minded and empathetic like that to chant for therapy. And it was just this like my worlds came together. And like now, like I just did a signing and people had like therapy is cool merch. Really? Yeah. And like they made it themselves. Really? And I've had so many people from that moment tell me that they decided to start therapy because of that segment.

1:03:43And I was just like, what do we do, you guys? Like, this is the coolest thing in the world to, like, combine these two things that mean everything to me. But I hope those fans know that, like, they are the reason I came back. I never do. It took me a really long time to be comfortable doing signings because once I retired, I was like, I'm going to be behind the camera forever now. Like attention was like not. Not what you wanted. No. At that time. No. I mean it's a little hard for me still. Like it messes with my anxiety where I have to like kind of like have a process of like a cool down and like not look at like the internet.

1:04:21And you know. It's just like. Oops sorry. It's just like the way I'm wired now. But I know how to work it. So signings were something I was you know doing for a long time. and I did one signing maybe like a year or something ago and I was like I'll be there for two hours seven hours seven because I was like I'm gonna take everyone who shows up yeah that must have been a lot of people it was hundreds and hundreds of people and I was like it's been 10 years you guys like you are still willing to wait in like a seven hour line for me and it just like touched me so deeply and then I started doing signings for the comic book that we had put out and it was the same thing in California and Chicago and New York.

1:05:06And I was just like, shit. Like there's like, I felt like I was, uh, I could give something to this group of people who had stuck by me for so long. So that's when the wheels started like, okay, maybe do you feel like this group of fans are a part of your community? Yes. A hundred percent. I mean, like, I mean, even like some in particular, like I know their names, I know their stories. I see them at every signing i see them at shows and it's it's cool to like see them grow up i call myself like step mama to them i raised you there was one one you shared i think someone created like a book for you yes i have it with me uh um uh her name is jessica she like put together this like a bunch of fan messages through twitter and like people who like couldn't make it to the signing all over the world like wrote like really like encouraging like messages to me and it's like this beautiful like scrapbook and it's giant.

1:05:59It's such hard work went into it. Yeah. And I always keep keep all the letters and I read all the letters because like in my first signing was Lita and I wrote her a letter and I'm sure it was like the most embarrassing thing in the world. But like I if she had been mean or like dismissive or it just any anything if she was not anything but like warm and wonderful who knows what weird direction I would have went in life. Maybe I would have hated wrestling and never done it so like to me oh my god no I'll cry oh my goodness oh like so that little girl's starving she is like probably living in a motel you know what I mean and like she doesn't know that but she's so kind to me and she held the letter and she's like I will read this and then she gave me her marker and I kept that marker for years and years and years I probably lost it in a move because have you talked to her I showed her the video and what did she say she's like I've seen that like somebody said to her this is back back in the day yeah it was I it just she didn't know what the kid was going through you know and so like you said before you never know what someone else is going you don't just don't and so that was like a pivotal moment god every like sliding doors who knows what would have happened if uh that didn't go that way and I didn't feel like seen and so now when I do like these signings it's like you've given me you've given me your whole day you've traveled here you're waiting in line for seven hours like and i only get these like two minutes with you they're gonna be the best fucking two minutes in the world you know like we are like we're gonna become best friends i'm gonna know your middle name those two minutes yes and so it just they're so so meaningful to me and and um i feel like you remember what it's like to be in line yes definitely it it means a lot it could really change things so i hope they know that they're seen I see them I'm one of them and I kind of always felt that way I'm just like a fan that snuck onto television snuck on somehow that is not how I would describe your journey oh my god your your fighter mentality is I mean it has brought you to where you are thank you I mean, it's and for you to be willing to be so raw and so vulnerable and so real.

1:08:13I mean, it truly I think the reason you have the fan base that you have is because of who you are and who you're willing to what you're willing to share. I mean, it's so easy to hide. Right. It's so easy to be someone else, you know, and especially when you're on television to play a persona. you know, and to not share those things. And that's fine for the people that don't want to share. But if you have something that so many people are going through and you can give them that hope, I mean, that's one of the things that I think is so special about our business. And I've heard a couple of people articulate it this way, but that it is hope.

1:08:56Yeah. You know, And it's interesting because going back to the women's evolution, we were in Abu Dhabi for six years and our women were not allowed to perform. It took six years. And then, like roughly, give or take. And then it was one match where our women were allowed and they had to change what they wore. They had to cover their heads. Their heads were the only thing that was exposed. and during the match a chant broke out this is hope whoa which is not a typical wwe chant as you know and the people in the audience will never be the same after being a part of something like that and that was such a huge spark you know for for what was to come but i think hope is i mean i've even heard of studies, you know, Make-A-Wish Foundation did a huge study on hope.

1:10:01And if you can give kids who are struggling that, I know I'm going to meet AJ Lee. I know I'm going to, you know, do whatever it is. That hope keeps them hanging on and it gives them an opportunity to feel better. right you know and how would you describe the importance of hope in your life that's a really good way to put it I've heard that the key to happiness is having something to look forward to and sometimes it could be so simple and sometimes when you're depressed it could really be like I made a doctor's appointment on this day I'm going to the OBGYN but hey it's a thing in my calendar you know like right right sometimes it's just little like plans or even if you give yourself like tiny goals like I'm going to finish this book by this day or I'm gonna if you're a writer I'm gonna write this thing by this contest deadline sometimes those are the only things in our control is that something ahead of us to look forward to um those are like steps you can implement every single day that I still do um when you feel a little bit untethered it's very grounding to be like, here's my plan.

1:11:10I'm going to do this in one month. I also think routine helps people a lot. Just if you're looking for anything to make you feel better, I wake up at the same time. I, you know, get my day started at the same time, eat the same thing. I have the same, you know, sort of workout schedule, stuff like that really helps people be grounded in their mental health. So goal setting. Goal setting. Turning home into actual goals. Yeah, that is really so it feels tangible and it feels uh this you feel accomplished when you can get that little thing done but bigger picture I mean hope is the only thing I had growing up and and stories comic books and video games and pro wrestling were these the good guy could win sometimes you know and you know you can fight and be knocked down and the really interesting thing is like the formula for a match is sort of the same structure as a script.

1:12:03Yep. It's very, very similar. Yes. You know, it's kind of the same dips and dives. And that is so cool to me because it's this universal storytelling technique that like gets your heart and like makes you root for someone. And so wrestling was this thing that I felt like I could do that one day. I could be the hero of my own story. and so there were times when that was kind of all I had was this hope for the future so how did you get so good at wrestling oh thank you it is the only thing I can do athletically if you try to throw a ball at me I'll just like a cat and some yarn it's bad I am not athletic at all I think I'm just stubborn also not naturally good at school I just like forced myself to be well I don't know you have to be very smart I mean I think like yes it's determination but you have to have the ability and I would argue that you're not athletic I know that's what I was going to say I mean I hear what you're saying right maybe certain sports but like just wrestling is the only skill physically that's a pretty big skill I mean I think And you look awesome.

1:13:25Thank you so much. I mean, we were talking. I was going to ask a question as you were going through your daily routine. What is the ab routine? Oh, my gosh. Please. Because the abs are ridiculous and they always have been. I mean, yeah. Thank you. It's another thing that's like sort of kind of dovetails into the whole like being kind to yourself. sort of thesis is I used to do really, really heavy like Olympic lifting and my body, especially at the end of my career, was like very much falling apart and it just was not working for me. And when I went through a really bad depression, like I gained a lot of weight and didn't know how to like get my body back.

1:14:04And I just said, oh, I don't need my body back. Let me just like take care of myself. What can I do today? What can I do that's like kind to myself? And I changed my workout to be shorter. I do high intensity interval training because it's fun. And like my heart rate gets up and I eat intuitively, I eat whatever I want. But like I'm not like binging in certain depressions. I would like binge eat. I'm a binger. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's a form of masochism sometimes. Yeah, no, it is. And you're sad. I know. I'm aware of what I'm doing when I'm doing it. It's very hard to break out of it, too. because then once you start, you're like, well, I already started.

1:14:42I already, mine as well. Yes. And so that was a thing, like, I can't be super constrained. I can't be like, I'm on this diet because then I'll just fall off in the complete opposite direction. So it was really about being like kind to me. What can I do with the injuries I have, with the body I have, with the time I have? Like, how can I do my job that asks me to sit at a computer for eight hours a day and squeeze in a workout? So I started doing high intensity interval training. I do it maybe four or five times a week. I mostly just use dumbbells and a yoga mat. And like that changed the composition of my body insanely.

1:15:19Just like, and it's, I think it is because I'm being kind to myself, which sounds like super hippy dippy, but like it works. You know, food shouldn't be a prize. It shouldn't be something you have to earn. I feel like it's a human right to eat food. And so I never call them cheat days. They're treat days. positive affirmation I hate negative connotations with words I think your voice is the strongest voice you're going to hear so be kind to yourself say nice things to yourself and what's the positive spin on everything and if you find yourself looking in the mirror and picking yourself apart be conscious of it and don't actively change your mind and start to think about positive things definitely Definitely.

1:16:04Because you have power over your own mind. I really do remember in my darkest time being like, OK, I will feel better. I am happy today. And like I just like faked it until I made it. Like it just would do that every day until I got myself like out and was able to then take like the actual steps I need to do with like my therapist and be on the right medication and the right routine. It's different for everyone. Sure. There's no like prescriptive advice across the board, but you do have to like dabble and like see what works for you. And know that you control your own mind. Yes, definitely. I mean, I think that the power of self, right?

1:16:42And that your mind can spin out. Yeah. And that does happen to all of us varying degrees. Yeah. But that you can recognize it. Like how important is it to recognize it in the moment and catch it? Yeah. I mean, it can spiral out of control if you don't. So that is where it really helps me to name it something else. Right, right. Like that is the bad guy who wants terrible things for me. Like what are the good things that I can like see in myself and the grace I can give myself. And I can get myself out of this. And sometimes like maybe wallow a day. Sometimes it feels good. A good cry. Let it out.

1:17:21Crying makes you stronger. Yeah, why not? Like, you know, you don't always have to be tough. but I think you're just so capable of being your own hero. I really do.

1:17:34So you were saying, we didn't really answer it, right? Because I said, how'd you get so good at wrestling? But also you said something that I wanted. Why do you think Olympic lifting was what, why were you doing Olympic lifting? So it was sort of part of the training program. So I never worked out ever because not athletic. And how could you have? Yeah, right. Um, so we started limpet lifting in Florida and like the FCW program. Okay. They had a trainer come in. So once you were part of WWE. Yeah. Okay. And I think like, so the first time I ever wrestled ever on the Indies, I got pneumonia instantly because I had no meat on my bones.

1:18:11I was just like. And are you still asthmatic? Not so much. Okay. Okay. I have a little inhaler just in case. But you know, I did pretty okay. But, um, I, I thought I was never going to be able to wrestle because I was so underweight and it just like murdered me the first time. So I had to like convince myself to come back to training like two weeks later and then like immediately broke my foot and I was like, oh my God, so fragile. So it was a lot of like, okay, how do you keep going? So I learned a little bit lifting and working out at all for the first time in FCW and like just see like the changes in your body like instantly when you start working out the first two months, you're going to see the most changes and then you'll like sort of plateau and it's going to be a little bit more uphill, but it's just sort of just keep chipping away at it.

1:18:54You'll see a lot of change at the beginning. That was really cool. It worked for me for a long time. I think I got like a squat record. Oh, yeah. Squatting like double my body weight. It was crazy. Yeah. But like not sustainable. My SI joint is like, oh, just hearing me say that out loud. So bad. But you were now, you had the internal strength but now you're putting on the physical strength. Yeah. And just seeing that like to me a strong female body has always been the most attractive. I've always been so interested in women with muscles and I find it interesting that there's like a subsection of men who don't like that or like women who are afraid to get muscular.

1:19:38And I think that's like really interesting because I think it's the most beautiful thing in the world. Like I look at like Rhea and Jade and I'm like, right? Are you like, was you created in the lab? Like what? What? And Bianca and so many. Oh, my God. It's just amazing. Actual action figures. That's what I say. Yes. Like that is the dream, right? And it's like that's the ideal beauty to me. It always has been since strength was beauty to me when I was younger. So that is really cool. But to be able to do it in a way that like works for me, in particular to answer the ab question, I do weighted abs.

1:20:12Oh, that's the trick. So I have a dumbbell for all of the ab workouts. Every week, just one day, that's all for abs. Oh. Yeah. What day are we doing? Not Friday. That's not it. Oh my gosh. But I will say also abs are like kind of genetic. Like it's sort of like your shape. Like some people can be the most lean ever, but like their shape is like different. Just don't have them. Yeah. But the weights are what bring out the thickness. Yes. Right? You can accentuate them. Because you've always had the look, but I've noticed now you have like a little more thickness. Yeah. I like myself. That's the other thing too.

1:20:45I think people are really afraid of gaining weight. but like I'm like 10 pounds heavier than I was back in the day but it's like muscle. Yeah, it looks fantastic. And your arms are all jacked. Thank you. Yeah, your shoulders. I mean your shoulders have always been round, like round delts but now they're a little bit bigger and I saw you hitting the bicep. You look awesome. You are also an action figure. Yes. We're talking about you too. Literally. But like this is tiny. But thank you. I would say I'm like a skipper doll next to Barbie. I mean, it's like, but thank you. But I think it's like, I love embracing that.

1:21:20I would try and get as like more jacked as I can. I think it's just the coolest look. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I've always been chasing. Just gain weight. I continue to chase. I have no problem gaining weight. Oh my gosh. But a lot of people don't like carbs. They're afraid of carbs. It's like you need carbs. And you don't know then how many am I supposed to eat or what kinds of carbs. Right. Or, you know, because it's confusing. It is. Well, I would say to everybody, your cells are made of carbs and protein and fat. And so if you're not eating carbs and protein and fat, your body thinks it's dying and it shouldn't feel like it's in a fight or flight mode.

1:21:55It should feel safe and sustained. And that's how you get the healthiest body. Yeah. So don't deny yourself. You deserve food. You deserve good nutrition. Yes. Nutrition feels strong. And then you can turn all that into muscle. I actually just started working with a nutritionist and I'm eating so much food and for the first time I'm eating like a lot of fiber which I don't love but it's wreaking havoc on my stomach because I just haven't. And she said, well, she said, I think your body has not ever had the sustenance that it needs. And she was asking about my eating habits and stuff like that.

1:22:33And I was like, yeah, I've cut carbs for a very long period of time. And she said she thinks I just haven't had, she wants to get me healthy. You know, before we start trying to reduce calories. She's like, let's just get you in a sustained state where your body actually has the nutrients that it needs. Yes. And when she said that, I was like, aha. Yes. I love that. I guess I really haven't been giving it what it needs. But I feel like thinking I'm doing the right thing, but maybe I wasn't. But that's not our fault. I feel like our generations have been told skinny is the most ideal. And it's changing now.

1:23:16Like the world is like embracing like being strong and like being strong. And like that is such a cool thing to see. But like I definitely grew up in the time where like my butt was big and it'd be like, oh, you're fat because your butt's big. Because your butt's big. Yeah. Now big butts are everything. Yeah. People are putting money and get big extra. Yeah. So it's interesting like what the media tells you is the ideal standard of beauty and sort of how you get indoctrinated young. And you have to unlearn a lot as you grow up and learn to love yourself. Yeah. And I have, you know, three daughters.

1:23:47so body image is something I try to be like especially when I was raising when they were younger they're 19 17 and 15 now still very impressionable but especially as they were growing up I would I would try my best and I'm sure I screwed up but to not talk about it as like dieting or I'm so fat I look terrible and like putting that in their brains and I think I still did it you know and I was trying so hard not to but I think I because then when it was myself you know I wasn't always the kindest to myself and they do hear everything they really do um I mean how often do we have to say to each other talk to my friend that way yeah I love that yeah I say that a lot we I feel like that's as we're beating ourselves up to the other yeah Oh, my gosh.

1:24:41When you said having someone who has your back. Yes. I mean, one of the first people to ever truly have my back is you. Thank you. I'm like, sorry. Or that person. That was a meaningful moment. Thank you, sir. Pseudo interruption. They were like, I would like some love, too. Can I join them? Can we jump into this? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, I have to say, I have this memory. I think it was Aurora, where she came to the show with you, and she was dressed in a little suit. Do you remember this? Yes, I do. I do. It is burned into my brain. It's one of the cutest things ever, where my ovaries just were glowing.

1:25:19And I was like, shut up. Don't do that. Stop it. But you were standing by the ramp or by the barricade, and there was a little person behind you, and we couldn't see her. And she had a little briefcase and a little suit on. No. And then it was the same outfit that you were wearing. And then she like peeked out and it was just like mini you. And every woman on the roster at the time was there. We all like collectively like, oh, like it was the thing ever. And I think I saw her at TV the other day. Wasn't she here? Yes. Well, she loves the business. Oh, my God. She always has. But she I used to I mean, she was on the road with me since she was born.

1:25:59I mean, I was pregnant on the road. And then we got the tour bus because, you know, we wanted to have a family. and we thought we'd homeschool on the bus and have our dogs on the bus and all this stuff. It didn't totally work out that way. But she was on the road until she was about three. Wow. Maybe even a little older. And I'd wheel her into the arena on my briefcase. I mean, we had like, she would come to the production meetings. Oh, my God. I mean, for a moment. But she'd get on the mic and sing the ABCs or Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. I mean, it was. It was like the cutest. And she was just like, I'm going to wear a suit.

1:26:35And then she said, Mommy, I don't want your job. Daddy, I don't want your job. I want Pop's job. Oh, my God. So she wanted to be the boss from the get-go. The right eye, too. She is the boss. Amazing. Amazing. Does she have, like, career goals? Because she's 19 now, right? Yeah, so she's studying to get her doctorate in physical therapy. Oh, whoa. So she's, yeah, she's taken, I guess, all of the injuries that we sustained. She's like, I need to heal all the broken people. Wow. Yeah, she's taken it to another level. Amazing. Yeah, that's what she's studying. That is so cool. It's so cool. I had to tell you that.

1:27:19I just remember that so vividly. No, it's so vividly. So I don't have pictures of like out by ringside. Yeah. But I do have some pictures. I remember it so vividly, her little suit. And like, I have no words. It was very cute. It was very cute. Very cute. I'm very blessed. I'm very, very, very blessed. I'm sure everyone asks you this question, but like if they ever wanted to wrestle. Oh, totally. Really? Yeah. I mean, they would have to work really hard, right? And I think, you know, when you are the child of, you have to earn it more, quite frankly. In order to appreciate the business, appreciate the people in the business, you know, respect is earned, not given.

1:28:09Right. And you have to earn it every day. And I think it would be, you know, harder for them in that respect, but I would completely support it. You know, our business is an amazing, wonderful place and it can be. Yeah. And it's like any other business. It's not perfect, you know. But the people in our business are very special, I find. And I've had the privilege of growing up around all of these different types of people. You know, literally every different kind of person. And what I think is so special about our business in particular is it's like we're all, I don't know what it is, but I say we're all like the island of misfit toys.

1:28:54Very true. You know, but we're a family. and I feel even our fans are a part of this family, like especially. And you grew up a fan, I grew up a fan and I grew up in the stands, you know, and literally. And like wrestling fans are my people, you know, that's what I feel like anyway. And I just feel it's such a special environment of people who, you know, really are down to earth just have a particular set of values, you know, and they know what they believe in. And I just feel very fortunate, you know, to be a part of it. And I would definitely encourage my kids if they wanted to be a part of it.

1:29:44That's cool. Yeah. It'd be cool to see. It would be. I mean, I don't rule it out for even for Aurora, you know, but and she's naturally gifted, like in the ring. Maddie used to train her oh so she's like trained she did no a long time ago like and then everything happened you know with my dad and the business and and I left and I think I don't realize necessarily the impact that it had especially on Aurora but on all of my kids because Aurora always saw a path forward through the business oh wow and when everything happened suddenly that wasn't there anymore oh and she had to shift her focus and what she thought she was going to do.

1:30:29And that happens in life anyway. I mean, you constantly change and all of that. But it was a path that she felt suddenly wasn't there anymore. Wow. So who knows? She might find her way back to it. But Charlotte had a couple matches with her, trained with her. Oh, my God. Natty trained her. And they both said, like, what a natural in the ring she was. And so I remember she was about two years old. And I'm sorry, I keep sniffling. Hopefully that will do it. Otherwise, I'm going to go get a tissue. but they gave it these two hours ago on the worst. They did? Oh, thank you. I forgot. I totally forgot.

1:31:02I'm so sorry. They're like, the tissues. But we were in Waco, Texas, and Aurora was like two-ish because, you know, Paul was a full-time talent, and I was on the business side, I think, at that time, and the only way we could be together is if I went on the road. So I would go on the road and bring a raw. And here we were, and it was DX, and I forget who they were wrestling, but it was Sean and Paul. And they were getting the heat on Sean, and then they made the hot tag to Paul. And, like, I could feel her on my shoulders get excited. Oh, my God. And she understood the beats of the match. Ah. And it was like I kind of couldn't believe it.

1:31:51Yeah. And then after the match was over, you know, Paul and I always talked about not having them in front of the camera or everything. But he got so excited and he was so proud. He takes her off my shoulders and parades her around the arena. And when he handed her back to me, her eyes were like this wide. And I was like, oh, no. She got bit by the bug in that moment. And I will never forget it. I knew exactly the moment. Two years old. Whoa. Yeah. So she'll always be a fan, you know. Does she wind up here one day? I don't know. But, yeah, I would absolutely encourage it. Oh, my God. She'll be my boss one day.

1:32:33Definitely going to be mine. Yeah, she is. I mean, she is. Oh, my gosh. Adorable. Big news, WWE and sports fans. the world's number one sports fan festival, Fanatics Fest, is making its return to New York City. Fanatics is bringing you closer to the leagues, teams, superstars, and athletes you love across four action-packed days in July. Meet your favorite WWE superstars, get your hands on exclusive merch, catch live podcasts, and interact with the biggest names in sports. Tickets go on sale November 13th then fans of the show can get a 10 % discount by using Steph10 at checkout. That's S-T-E-P-H, the number one, the number zero, at checkout.

1:33:27One thing we haven't talked about is your love story, which I know is very personal. But I'd love to know, like, what was, how did you guys, you know, obviously I had my own life-imitated art. moment. But is there like a moment that you knew? Was it that kiss? Like, how did it happen? Oh my gosh. That's so funny. I mean, the really cool thing about this business is the fact that I can be like, our first kiss is televised. And then I put him - As was mine, by the way. Oh, really? Oh yeah. Oh my God. We were married and divorced before we actually dated. What a life. You may have just ruined my childhood.

1:34:17Oh, no. Yeah, we had a dry run. I don't think I knew that. Whoa. We had a rehearsal. You just ruined our childhood. The chemistry was real. Amazing. The whole time the chemistry was real. And I'd be like, is he flirting? No, he's not. He can't be. Like, this is just a story. Steph, get this out of your head. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And there's got to be different layers to that, too. Many. You know. Many layers. You are. Many onion. Well, he was a brave, brave soul. He put his whole career on the line. Yeah. His entire career that he worked so hard for. Right. I mean.

1:34:57Oh, that's cute. That's cute. I mean, that's sort of like we sort of had a dry run as well. Like we dated probably two years after our storyline. But our first kiss is on television. And then I put him through a table. As one does. Yes. wrestling relationships um yeah i think we did early on i think he like respected me to the point of like um in nxt he was one of the announcers and when everyone else was like shit on us he would be like but aj's cool yeah like he was always like putting me over and i think he just knew i like loved wrestling and um and so like when we did the storyline together i remember there was like a uh he was supposed to say something really mean to me and like a one of the live uh one of the backstages that was like going on live and it was live so he then he didn't say the mean thing and he like hit on me or something like he wasn't supposed to and i was like that was so cool yeah it was not in the script but it but he like took care of me and i thought that was like really really nice um and i think we just i don't know i don't know like it's sort of it evolved yeah i think we were like friends first dating other people and then once we were we were both single at the same time and I think part of me was like who knows let's try this out let's give it a shot yeah yeah and then I blinked and we were married in like two months or something like wow but I do remember like um we were when we were just friends like zero romantic interest we were talking like a restaurant one time and he was saying something about like you know that he knows he's never getting married and a weird voice in my head went you know you're gonna marry me and i was like really i was like bitch shut who was that i was like what and then i like didn't talk to him probably like a year i was like that was freaked out by that yeah that go through my head no because i never wanted to get married no i don't believe in marriage i still like i still would be like don't get married to people it works for us I don't think it lasts forever I think people grow I think people grow at different times I think it's an institution but for some reason it was like this is my teammate like this is the team it's the partner yeah and so like it works for us and you know I always like in my book I say you know I kind of talk about like us getting together through the show and then I say the rest of our story is just for us because like I don't know I get like a scare that sometimes if you open the window everyone's like okay now I'm gonna sneak into the house you know So I like to keep that.

1:37:33I give so much of myself when it comes to the mental health aspect that it's like, I want to protect the things that feel sacred. So it's not because I'm not proud of him. I'm so proud of him. But I don't post him a lot. I don't talk about him a lot. Sure, well, that's your private life. And he's a bit the opposite. He's the cutest heart on the sleeve. He does love you so much. I think the world knows that. It's very cute. He loves to post. and talk about the interviews. It's very cute. I'm trying to be more open to that. Well, you do you. Yeah. Yeah, that's your business. His face when you returned.

1:38:12You could just feel how proud. Oh, my God. Oh, well, and especially after the match. Oh, yeah. The whole night. But you could feel the love. It was really cute. You can. You can feel it. Oh, no. Oh, oh my gosh. Oh, I mean, it's just. He's so funny. Like the whole, that whole like. And look at this shredded body. I'm like, I'm sorry. Oh my God. I was trying to look at the cuteness there, but I went right to your abs again. You can't not. When, as soon as she walks out, it's like, look at those abs. No. One day a week. And the best skipper ever. Skipping's hard. You know what? I wasn't going to do it.

1:38:51I wasn't going to do it. And then it took over me. It does. It has to. Yeah. It was insane. Like, I felt like. because it's like a performance right to me you always have to be a character and uh that protects your real person and um and so to me it is a character that's on screen of being you know terrible at times and like you know crazy at other times and i was like fun generally yes but i good i didn't remember her and i was like how do i like drop into her and uh the second the music kit and I went out like I felt like my body felt hot. That's when it happens. And she was out there like waiting.

1:39:28Yeah. And like I just like felt her like come through me. Yeah. It was like it was it was weird. And then the skip just was there. It just happened. Muscle memory. And so it hasn't been announced yet. But by the time this airs. Right. Right. You're gonna be in another match. Yes. So I figured I was in a generation where we got like seven minutes at max. And so I thought I would just jump into the deep end and do 30-minute matches and fucking war games cage matches. And have you ever been, I mean, you've never participated in a war games match. Have you ever been in a steel cage? Okay, I think the last time I was in a cage, never like as a wrestler.

1:40:10Right. I think it was in Madison Square Garden, like a house show. I was managing Nick at the time, and he had the briefcase. and I like did like the thing where I like, you know, lose it. And I threw the briefcase and I think I broke Charles Robinson's arm. Oh, no. Like it bounced off and it gave him like a hairline fracture because he was like stalling on the ground. Oh. And so that's my memory of like a cage match. Oh, no. Yes. Time for a new memory. Yes. So, you know, just really. But you're in there with quite the crew. Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. I'm going to ease back into things. Yeah, you know.

1:40:44You know. That's how you do it. Tip your toe in the water. Yeah. but the group of of of women are i mean there's there was this world in which it was just like a one and done where it's just like come back and like have fun and like you know see you feel and that's been a big thing too because of like i never wanted to feel how i felt mentally to where my last year was very hard for me and so like i have been a little trepidatious and like what i'm committing to and what I can handle. And part of the appeal of like, okay, let's keep doing this was that group of women and being like, oh, I'm like a fan of all of them.

1:41:22Like I'll be like so happy to just be surrounded by them and get to like work with them to just like kind of hang out with them in that way of like, okay, like trust this group. I think I give so much credit to the women make it very appealing. You're going to have a blast. Thank you. Yeah. And it's going to be great. It's going to be an amazing match. You're going to shine with all of them. Like it's going to be incredible. And here you are as an individual that's a part of this bigger group of women in the war games match in a match that probably you never could have imagined for our women at the time when you started, let alone being surrounded by all of them.

1:42:05I mean, not all of the women, but a big, huge chunk of women. There was like two or three, you know, as you mentioned before. And now our roster has grown so dramatically and is continuing to grow. And these women who are coming up that are now a part of NXT, which has become our, you know, third brand, they're amazing. They really are. They're so incredible to watch in the ring. And you were such a huge part of all of this happening. and now you get to enjoy it that is a weird thing yeah it was such a dream and I remember very vividly car rides with like Caitlin and being like just one more chick gets a shot that I got yeah like everything would be worth it like you just one more can come through and it's just like to see every single woman on the roster is so talented and different and special and their looks are like the 10th most interesting thing about them.

1:43:06Like they're just, they have so many skills and are, they're people that I would have been a fan of as a kid. Yeah. And to like see that and like somehow come back and like play with them is, uh, it's insane. It really is. Well, we will be cheering you on. Thank you. And we are so grateful for absolutely everything that you've done and continue to do. I can't wait to watch your movie. That's going to come out your projects. I'm going to look at them so differently now, you know, with the lens of of how you created them and why you created them and where it comes from and just your sense of story.

1:43:43And the fact that every person is their own hero. Yes. I mean, I think that's that's the best possible message. Thank you. So thank you. Yay!

1:43:58This was fun. No, this was so fun. And thank you so much. Thank you. See, I told you it wasn't a wrestling podcast. Just a couple of girls chatting. Yeah.