CM Punk

26:05So I just love doing stupid stuff. Did you get injured doing that? No. Really? No, I flew to Raw the next day and like wrestled a 20-minute match on TV.

26:15Steph McMahon:I would have. To be young. What age? Yeah, that was my question. To be young. Damn. Oh, you've never heard this story. I've actually never heard this story. This is a great story.

26:28My cardio, the fasted cardio at least, but heading up the SummerSlam. No, no, no, no, no.

26:32Steph McMahon:I'll get to you. Okay, okay, okay. Heading into SummerSlam, Jay's like, I want you to do like four fasted cardio days. And I was immediately like, uh, how am I going to do that with lifting too? Right. But it's an experiment. So a lot of the times he wants me lifting three days on one cardio day and then two days and a cardio day. But now my cardio days are overlapping with days I'm lifting. And now I'm going to be doing a lot of house shows. That's tricky. I'm sorry. Live events. So it's, I've never, I've never really learned that one either. It's going to be a lot of, you know, trial and error and it's more challenging to eat on the road and everything else.

27:10But anyway, yeah. So the, the marathon story. Yeah. I think I told this on Nerdist, Chris Hardwick's podcast, but this, you're talking like 2011. So you'll probably recall 2011, because I think you did message me. My sister's father passed away and he was essentially my father, right? So when you hear me talk about my mom, I'm not talking about my biological mom. I'm talking about the Rump family. Because they're the ones that essentially when I was 15. I mean, he was a school teacher. He'd wake up and this kid was just on his couch. And bless his heart, he was just like.

27:55You know what I mean? Like he didn't throw me out. He would just be like, just, you know, take the garbage out. And he would make me take him to the gym because my gym was 24-7, like on Christmas morning and stuff like that. And I'd have to like five in the morning drive him to the gym. But you didn't care. Yeah. So he passes away and it just turned into a thing where my one sister Cassie was like, I'm going to run the Chicago Marathon for dad. She's like, you want to do it with me? And I was like, oh, yeah, absolutely. It just so happened that this is 2011. My contract was expiring and I was like, oh, you know what?

28:28Yeah, I can totally do it because I'm not going to have a job because I'm leaving.

28:31Steph McMahon:Right. So, yeah. So famously, what happens? So this is 15 years ago. Famously, what happens? I re-sign. Right. Totally forget about the, yeah, I'll do the marathon with you. Right. That's a big one. Yeah. It's a big one. And then one day I think office tells me, hey, we're going to give you the weekend off. Now I'm champ, you know what I mean? And I'm like, part of the reason I wasn't going to re-sign is because I was already feeling pretty grizzled. Right. You were - Just wanted to take a break. Lots of injuries. Yeah. Just wanted to take a break. Just slow down. but then you know when opportunity comes you know you gotta jump through that door so the conversation is so great hey we're gonna give you the weekend off and I went huh really yeah we're gonna take you off the live events oh that's interesting cool yeah we're gonna send you to Australia to do the Nickelodeon Kid Choice Awards and I went that's not that's not actually the opposite all right okay great so no bumps traded for a 16 hour flight you know um so of course they piggyback like a meet and greet with this so it's just like land go you know like hello everybody you know blah blah but i think ironically like um do you remember um uh indy she was at like there's so many kids there's so many kids that we have hired that are in the developmental system, we're on the main roster now, that'll be like, hey, this is a picture of me.

30:05And I was like, yeah. I'm like, oh, that's cool. So like, that was a cool situation. Do the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards. Next morning, fly from Sydney, I think, to LA, to Chicago, right? So I'm getting into Chicago, like maybe Saturday night, I think. And I walk in my house and my sister's there scares the shit out of me not supposed to be there and i'm like whoa what did you know like you wouldn't you walk into a room and you're like right yeah there's

30:39Steph McMahon:somebody in this room yes right friday the 13th right uh and she's like i knew you'd forget she's like the marathon's tomorrow and you told me i can stay at your house because i'm just gonna walk over and start the race and i was like oh yeah cool right and so she's like i'm gonna go I'm going to go to bed, you know, like I got to get up early and run. I was like, cool. And then like I sat on the couch and I was like. Does she remember? Do I even have sneakers? No, I was just like, well, walked out my front door. I went to Walgreens. I bought bagels, like fruit snacks. Cause I was like, I'll just eat these while I'm running.

31:20A bunch of peanut butter, whatever. And you know, like, and then I sat on my couch. I couldn't sleep cause I was wired from the trip.

31:28Steph McMahon:Yeah. don't know what time zone you're on anyway all night and then she wakes up she walks out of the room and she looks at me and she just goes you're not running the marathon and I was like hell yeah her friend dropped out she was supposed to run it with her so I ran in her spot with her bib and I was just like yeah we're doing this I'm doing this whatever I didn't train for it I ran I loved running oh you do love running I would run in every city it's normally what we do especially like overseas that's how I saw things oh I didn't know that we go to Europe and stuff like that me and my sister oh in general so I was like we're going to do this did she come on the road with you often no when I was overseas I would go run because I would look at architecture and different stuff and parks and all that and the race started in my mind we're going to run this together the race started and this bitch she's gone see ya like a bat out of hell and I was just like oh oh okay see ya unseasonably unseasonably warm October day in Chicago it was like 80 plus degrees oh shit right it's rough I run the first 13 miles and I'm fucking killing it yeah it's the most I've ever ran I accidentally ran a half marathon one time because I got lost and so I just we just keep running i'm just like i'm gonna get back to wherever i gotta go faster if i just keep running and then you know my app was like you half marathon i was like oh holy shit cool so 13 miles like my my family's waiting at like the 13 mile marker say hi to everybody i'm realize i'm wearing a really heavy sweatshirt and i take it off and it had to have been like 20 pounds it's soaked but must have felt great to get yeah so i took it off and i'm like i'm rejuvenating yeah see you guys in another 13 miles you know and you did it start running again and then all of a sudden felt like i got shot all of a sudden i cramp up right oh god um so i stop and i stretch for a little bit and i try to run it again and it's just not going and i take a little bit more time now i walk a little bit stretch more trying to eat drink whatever i can but like i didn't train for this Now my body's like, you dumb motherfucker.

33:54But I'm like, well, I have to finish. I'm too stubborn. I can't come this far. Stretching, walking, slowly easing into it, getting to a nice rhythm and a nice pace, and I'm running. And now, ladies, forgive me.

34:11Steph McMahon:Oh, I think I know what happens. I have to shit so bad. This is what I thought. This is what I thought. they say you just go a lot of people do I had a roommate who was a runner this has got to be one of the top 20 experiences of my life running this marathon was so great you run through the different neighborhoods of Chicago strangers are rooting for you and cheering you on people are running up to you with this giant industrial size bowl full of pretzels people are encouraging you right Like a community. Yeah. It was magical. But because it was so warm, by mile 15 through 20, it was like a war zone.

35:01People were like...

35:03Steph McMahon:Oh, everybody's having... There's people laying in kiddie pools full of ice. There's triage tents set up. People are bleeding because they just fell and hit their head on the curb. Like people are cramping up and falling. It's bad. It's happening left and right, especially like the last six miles. It was like a war zone. But I was experiencing my own internal war at this point. And they have signage posted everywhere. You know what I mean? Right. And I think it was like maybe like, I remember it was about mile 18 because there's the mile 18 sign. And I'm like, the cramp doesn't bother me anymore.

35:44It's just the fact that I realized I'm wearing white shorts.

35:47Steph McMahon:Oh no. And it's going to be bad. Yeah. But thankfully, like my, I mean, it was motivation. Sure. I felt like every quarter mile I was seeing like a bank of porta potties. And then suddenly they're all gone. And now I'm in a porta potty desert. And I'm like. Where's the porta potty? I'm gone and I'm just trying. And you know, like I'm not religious and I'm praying to the universe. And I'm like, oh my God, I make it, I make it to the, the port-a-potty bank and it's like a shit sauna. Because it's so hot. Because it's so hot. Oh no. And the port-a-potty, the port-a-potty is a disaster. Of course.

36:34Steph McMahon:Right? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people are ahead of you. But I was in such a hurry. Didn't matter. I didn't stop to check if there was toilet paper. There wasn't. Nope. Not a lick of it. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to use the shirt I'm wearing. I'm going to wear this overly expensive$80 Lululemon shirt.

36:59I have no options, you know? And I kind of like look in the corner and there's a Dunkin' Donuts bag. Now, if, I mean, Boston, maybe not New York. I feel like Boston and Chicago are Dunkin' Donuts territory. Yes, absolutely. So if you're from those areas, you know, if you get a Dunkin' Donuts bag, there's going to be like a half acre of napkins in it.

37:26You get like two donut holes and they're like, you need 80 napkins for some reason. So I'm like, I'm saved. Right. Open it up. No napkins. No napkins. No napkins. but there's a discarded blueberry muffin wrapper.

37:44Steph McMahon:Oh, that's comfortable. I mean, you're talking to a man who is contemplating ripping the center roll of the toilet paper like off the thing and like using that. The cardboard, for sure. Yeah, so the muffin, the discarded blueberry muffin wrapper sounded like a much better idea. But you need more than one wrapper. I took care of it. It was handled. Did you keep your shirt on or did that also get used? No, I kept the shirt. Okay. Yeah. Well, I figured, well, I don't have to use the shirt now. I'll use this and probably some of the Dunkin' Donuts bag, you know? Yeah, of course. A little waxy though.

38:22It is waxy. That's where I thought we were going at first with the Dunkin' Donuts bag. And then very regrettably, I have to finish telling the whole story. Not my greatest moment. I run out. I mean, I'm sweating. Sure. And there's a poor woman who's sitting in front of a part of the room. And she's got her legs crossed. And she's like hopping on one foot.

38:42Steph McMahon:Also a runner? Yeah. Okay. And she looks at me and she goes, is there toilet paper? And I just went, yep. And then. Oh.

38:51Steph McMahon:No. What does that just mean? My motivation running the next eight miles was this woman cannot catch me. She can't see me ever again. She cannot. I have to keep. I'm going to beat anybody else, but I'm going to beat her. I'm going to keep running because if she catches me, she's going to beat my ass and it will be justified. Yep. Yeah, that's my mile 18. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. But so then you made it. I made it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. And then you had Raw the next day. Yeah. And you were all good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we can probably figure it out like on a calendar like look it up and like see what I did I can't remember the show that day yeah I do because I remember someone coming up to me and going somebody said you ran the marathon yesterday I was like I sure did I sure did are you okay yep I'm fine sure ready to go and I didn't post a great time or anything like that because of the cramp and the you know the stopping and the stretching and the walking or stuff like that But like I, at that point I was like, I just have to finish.

40:00Steph McMahon:You still ran 26.2 miles without training. Like that's crazy. Insane. Yeah. Well, professional athlete. Yeah. What did your sister say? What took you so long? She did it in like, she did it in like four hours and 20 minutes. Wow. And how long? She crushed it. How long did it take you? I was like probably just shy of six or just over six. That's still very impressive. I mean, I'm not embarrassed about it. And I literally was like, I didn't train for this. I just flew in from Australia and I decided to run the marathon. You're lucky you didn't tear anything. I probably did. I feel like at mile 18, things could have gone very bad.

40:40Steph McMahon:They did go bad at mile 18, but they could have been worse. They could have been worse. They could have been worse. We've all had, I think, the steamy, at least I have had the steamy port-a-potty emergency situation. That's life perspective. Well, I guess, shit, it could always be worse. Shit happens. You could be the lady. That's where the phrase comes from. I'm sure she was fine. By the way, you had two matches the next day. Two? Saturday, October 10th. Monday, October 10th. It's Saturday Night Raw. Singles match versus Del Rio, and then he tagged with Del Rio versus Archer from the middle. Wow.

41:17And you won both? You definitely won the tag. The singles match, and there are no contests. You won the tag. Amazing.

41:24Steph McMahon:It is amazing. That really is. How old were you? 2011. So that's what? 15 years ago. 30, 32. It's impressive. I'm not good at math. I got to say that's impressive. That's something I think about and I'm like, you told me to do that now. And I'd be like. All bad. All bad. How many days do I got? Yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. I don't bounce back like I used to. But I also, I go heavy on recovery stuff now. Like what? Like. Do you do the ice bath? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes, very much so. You're a believer? I am a believer. Yeah. That, I'm a believer in the red light therapy too. And these are things that I, people, oh, you see all these benefits.

42:13And I'm like, no, but I know immediately it makes me feel better. I do. I lay on a red light mat an hour before I go to bed. And I fall asleep like that. Wow.

42:24Steph McMahon:Is that what they recommend to do it at night like that? So we just got a red light. There's different science about doing it in the morning for like a boost of energy to start your day. But that's when I do my ice bath. Oh, okay. That's like first thing. And people are always like, ah, it's junk science. It's this and that. And I just say, well, I know how it makes me feel better. So if I wake up and like my wrist is achy and my back's achy or slept wrong on my pillow and my neck hurts, Like I get in the ice bath three, five minutes and it takes care of it, wakes me up and it gets rid of all my aches and pains.

42:56Steph McMahon:That's awesome. Even if it's just for 15 minutes, it gets me moving and then I eat and then I'm in the sun and I'm walking. How long do you do the ice bath? Three to five minutes. Okay. I think it depends on how cold it is. Like what temp do you do? Uh, mine at home is set for 40 or 45 degrees. Yeah. Yeah. So anything longer, like that's normally like three minutes. Um, there's a place in Chicago I go to where I do contrast. So I'll do cold, I'll do the, the, the cold plunge and then I sit in the sauna for 20 minutes. And is it a dry sauna or a wet sauna? It's a dry sauna. Okay. Yeah. Cause there's all theories on that too.

43:35Steph McMahon:Oh yeah. Yeah. And then they have this, do you know what an immortal machine is? No, I haven't heard of that one. It's a free plug, I guess. I don't know. Like it's, uh, I discovered it cause a whole bunch of hockey players swear by it. So a lot of facilities, probably in the NFL and certainly the NHL are getting these big immortal mistakes. So there's different kinds of light therapy. This combines all of them into one. So you lay in this thing and it's just I don't know how to describe it. It could just be because I have nothing else to do and I fall asleep, but it puts me out. I fall asleep.

44:12The red light bed

44:13Steph McMahon:does that for me. I wake up and I kind of feel like energized and ready to go. But so it's red light plus what? All different kinds of blue light, red light, yellow light. Is it blinding? This is one of those things. I mean, it's very bright. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend looking at it. Yeah. Close your eyes. Do you wear goggles? I don't know. And there's a, I can't remember what they call it. The thing that goes in your nose and you're like breathing in like pure oxygen too. So it's just like, it's all just, it's a whole thing. It's all recovery. It's like a hyperbaric light chamber.

44:46Steph McMahon:Yep. Wow. Yep. Huge on body work and massage and stretching and just trying to. Isn't it crazy how much you have to stretch? Yeah. As we get older? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a funny scene in Grown Ups, the Adam Sandler movie. Haven't seen it. Oh, so there's this scene and it's like Adam Sandler, like they're all a little older and they all have younger kids and they go back to where they used to go to summer camp or whatever it is. Forgive me if I'm getting it a little off. and they run into Zac Efron and like these frat boys. So like these young frat boys and they're at the cliff that they used to dive off of and they get into words and they, you know, they're going to get into a fight and they're like, yeah.

45:25Steph McMahon:All right. Yeah, we're going to we're going to kick your ass. Just hang on a second. I'm going to warm up. I'll start stretching. Who's in it? Kevin James, Adam Sandler, Chris Rock. Chris Rock. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's funny. I mean backstage before I have a match like I'm I banded all kinds of stuff band around my knees I'm doing laterals and cat cows and clamshells and I'm just like I gotta move because if I don't then it's bad then it's bad I shouldn't tell the story on myself but I will and I don't know if I've told it on the pod I doubt it So we were playing capture the flag, our family, and I know I'm faster than my husband, right?

46:18Steph McMahon:Well, you heard it here. So he's on the other team and I know where he is and he's like down guarding the flag and I'm not too, too far away. And in my mind, I like as soon as the bell rings or whatever it was, I am running. I'm going to get that flag and I know he can't catch me. Did you warm up? there was there was a minimal minimal but see now also i have other problems because i had three kids so yeah this is why i said i probably shouldn't tell the story but so you know it's okay i'm gonna shit myself so um here i am and having this great vision of what's gonna happen right and i mean i really see it.

47:04Steph McMahon:The buzzer rings. I take off and I pull my groin. I get a shin splint and completely pee myself within four or five steps. And I just started to laugh because it was so not what I thought was going to happen. I mean, I had so envisioned something different and here I was. I hope you wouldn't plan on that. This is what's going to happen everybody. I'm going to piss my pants. That starter pistol is going to go off. I was wearing shorts. I was running down my leg. Tremendous. Into my socks. Yeah. So that's my story. Now I'm red. It's hot in here. That's okay. Is it my turn? Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is.

47:52Steph McMahon:Do you have one? I don't think so. Come on now.

48:01That's fine.

48:01Steph McMahon:Yeah. Yeah. We'll get one. That just means it hasn't happened yet. Yeah. That's right. You have time. Now I'm excited for you. Don't run a marathon. Don't play capture the flag. It'll happen. Unexpectedly. God. I mean, we're just older now. That's all it is. No, you just got to stretch. That's the message. Yeah. And the funny thing is, is you don't get hurt doing what we do. You know, somebody falls off a 12 foot ladder onto me or I jump off. I don't get hurt doing that. You get hurt doing the stupid shit. The stupid shit. Yeah. Yes. The capture the flag shit. Yeah. Yes. The casual marathon shit.

48:36Except you didn't, which is remarkable. Knock on wood.

48:40Steph McMahon:Yes. Well, in that moment, you didn't. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. And then apparently I flew and I wrestled two matches. Twice. In one night. Dumb. Yeah. Well, I mean, power to you. It's just what we do. Right. I'm not the only one. We're all, we all have pretty remarkable stories like that, you know. I don't know about running a marathon and wrestling two matches the next day. Running a marathon cold. I mean, think of all the wrestlers in the 80s who did copious amounts of drugs. Did amazing things in the ring. There's a whole other side. I can't say I've ever done that. Impressive in a different way.

49:20Okay.

49:21Steph McMahon:Yes, I'll give you that.

49:25so

49:28Steph McMahon:being a veteran now right do you or do you see yourself as a veteran or no more of a like facts are facts it doesn't matter if I see myself a long time decades yeah I've been around I started a while ago I think I think I'm still here operating on this level, I must have seen and done some things that have merit to them. Maybe my opinion carries some weight, but I think it's a dangerous thing to say that veteran, yeah, just because I've been around. Sure. Yeah. I mean, and I'm not, so my question is, how do you look at things now? Is it different than how you looked at things, you know, when you first started some of like, because your journey is so remarkable.

50:29Steph McMahon:I mean, it really is like you're first of all, just a completely unique person. Um, and all, all the wonderful ways. And I'm sure you would say there's not wonderful ways or what have you like, cause we're all human, but you're really remarkable. I'm pretty wonderful. Other than that, I'm wonderful. Not fat. I'm wonderful. You're wonderful. Not Mr. Wonderful. No. But you're wonderful. I was actually just watching a Paul Orndorff-Buzz Sawyer match, and I was texting your husband about it. Yeah. He shot me a text. He's like, hey, what are you doing? And I was like cardio watching Buzz Sawyer and Paul Orndorff.

51:07Steph McMahon:I don't remember that match. Conversation spirals to somewhere he didn't expect it was going to go. That's good. Yeah. And you are truly a student, right? Like you've studied, I think you seem to be someone who studies all of the things that you love. Yes. Right. Like whether that's hockey, whether that's, you know, wrestling, whether it's food, you know, whatever it is, like you said, you obsess about it. You get deep into it. Yeah. But to have grown up in what I'll say, and you correct me, maybe a tumultuous environment, a tough environment. um you found what i think the wrestling community is is family and you found a real family and a family that you were just talking about who you know gave you that love that you never really knew before yeah and to then go after what you love and then you you start uh in like a your own independent circuit almost in backyard wrestling, which we don't condone.

52:18Steph McMahon:But and and it becomes pretty successful. But then you have another hardship related to that, which you overcome. And then you do get into the business and become one of the biggest stars of all time. And your opinion does matter so much. And you are so different, especially when you are coming up at a time where you are, you know, drug free, you're straight edge, you, you know, look a little different from, you know, interviews that, that I've heard you give from your perspective. You're, you know, you're a punk, right? You're, you're this punk ass kid who's going to talk shit and tell it like it is and pipe bombs and everything else.

53:01Steph McMahon:Right. Not everybody can get away with that. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, you have a lot of medical issues. You have some real difficult times physically and I'm sure mentally and emotionally. You leave the business. In this whole thing, you find April. You guys get married. You get Larry. Your life takes on a totally new direction. You decide you're going to do MMA, which again is like crazy to think that you were able to even compete, you know, at that level coming out of, of a completely different profession, you know, and, and I'd love to learn even just some of the lessons in, in that, but then you, you decide to come back, you go to a different promotion and then ultimately wind up back in WWE where nobody ever thought you would ever wind up again.

54:01Steph McMahon:Um, including yourself at some points, right? Like if someone had told you that this was going to happen, you'd be like, yeah, no, I don't think so. Yeah. No, that's fair to say.

54:14Like what drives you?

54:19Steph McMahon:What are some of the things that you learned during such an incredible journey? Because it takes such courage, I think, to take the risks that you've taken. and to take the, like, what, what, what do people need to know that it's safe or unsafe? How do you get them to take those risks, to believe in themselves enough to not be afraid to fail, to, to see failure as a teaching opportunity? Like what, how do you look at this time and, and the key things that you've learned? Uh, I, I think for me, um, Um, because I will, I will say it all the time to April, you know, I'm, I'm annoying when I'm at home and I'm just like random and like, Hey babe, I love you.

55:12You know? I'm sure she doesn't find it annoying. Well, she might. I don't know.

55:15Steph McMahon:I don't think so. She's in her office, hold up writing. And I just like pop in and like, you know, that's probably annoying. but I I just I look at things and I think a few of us on the roster start speaking this way like I just saw Seth cut a promo and he's talking about how almost sounded like he was gonna fucking retire and I was like what are you doing man you know like everybody else will say oh you're old and you're this and you're that. And I'm just like, yeah, but I'm old and I'm doing this shit. Watch this. Right. So where I get the inspiration from is just people around me. Just I'm inspired every day by my wife.

56:06I'm inspired every day by my trainer, Jay. I'm inspired by Chad Gable. I'm inspired by Bailey. I'm inspired by everybody else because I see them have setbacks and they come back from them. I'm not necessarily concerned with mine. But I constantly am just like, man, what a life. What a, like, before we sat down to do this, they were interviewing me about a great many things, and I was talking about Jesse Ventura, you know, and it's just like I said, I said, wow, he's not gone, and I'm glad he's still here. But what a life well lived when you can be like, he's a Vietnam veteran and then he was a pro wrestler and then he had to retire for health concerns and then he became one of the greatest commentators of all time um huge advocate for the boys governor also that's what I'm saying yeah he becomes governor and it's just like like why not like I I I came I came from nothing and so there to me there's really there's really nowhere else to go except up.

57:19I am afforded opportunities that scare the shit out of me. And those, that to me, like that's where my motivation, my motivation comes from. Like I can't remember, was I 35 when I was like, oh yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to fight in MMA now. And it was something I wanted to do and I was going to do it. I was going to start as an amateur. And then of course, Dana's like, no, you're not doing that. Right. You're going to fight for me. And I was just like, I can already hear the criticism, Dana, you know? Yeah, but he's a promoter. Right.

58:03So I just look at it like, okay, you know, deathbed scenario. I don't want to be laying there thinking I should have said yes to that.

58:16Steph McMahon:Right. Because what's the worst thing that's going to happen? I'm going to get beat up. Oh, well, shit. No, that's right. It's in front of the entire world. Oh, well, shit. Okay. All right. It's not about the money. It's not about anything else. It was just about, well, I'm going to do this anyway. Oh, you're going to pay me that? Oh, okay. Well, I'm going to do it anyway. I just, I don't like saying no to things that scare the shit out of me. You know? Do you think fear is a motivator? I will run into a burning building because to me that's the, you know, not, not, not just to get burned up. Right.

58:59No, no. Yeah. There's gotta be a reason. There's gotta be a reason for it. A good reason. You know? And I, I, like, I understand all the criticism of things I've been afforded to do, like fight in the UFC and like, You know, like there's privilege that I have used in those scenarios, but like I still pay the fucking price. Yeah. You know, and the price we pay as entertainers is people with Twitter fingers or mouth or anything. They can say anything they want about us. Right. Like you have to come to terms with your own security in those moments. In those moments. this is where I enjoy being a veteran because I can grab people on the roster and be like hey like stop worrying about what they're saying right and who's they they are saying that from a position way down here they're nobody punches down you know like they're punching up they're like they would want, they would kill to be in your position.

1:00:05So you slipped or you messed up your finish. Brother, this is live TV.

1:00:10Steph McMahon:Yeah, it's going to happen again too. This is the price we pay. And if you're going to get upset and it's going to affect your mood that much, like you have to realize that like, this is it, this is live TV. This is what we do. Shit's going to happen, you know? So just live in that moment when I can hopefully coach some of these kids through some of those moments. It's not the end of the world. Right. You know, like. Do you think it's perspective? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's perspective. It's experience. It's just living life. Yeah. Like I will. But what a life. Right. Right. And I chuckle about like you said at the top, like, you know, like our relationship was fucking weird.

1:00:56And I look back at it now. Not weird. well I look back at it now and I'm just like it all just boils down to communication you know like

1:01:04Steph McMahon:yeah we kind of danced around each other but I don't think that was because neither one of us wanted to talk to each other I just think circumstances were what they were like I remember we had this one conversation and there were a lot of voices that I heard a lot of negative voices towards you but my interactions with you had never really been negative. And we had this conversation and you were talking to me about basically like all the heat I had and who was going to get it. Right. And you were very respectful, like not talking down to me about like, well, you understand that's how the business works.

1:01:47Steph McMahon:And I'm like, no, no, I get that. I very much would love to, you know, have a match. And it just wasn't me in charge making those decisions. Right. But I remember the conversation and it was such a good conversation, you know, and I always loved your perspective on things. But again, I wasn't like in the decision making role related to anything you were going through or, but I would hear all about it. My perspective now is like, yeah, you're the boss's daughter. Where else are you going to work? Like what? you know like well and i loved it i've always loved but but and the price you pay being the boss's daughter is people aren't gonna they're gonna say no you got handed this and like that's the privilege that you have sure sure you know right and yet have i been given opportunities thousand percent right yes but that doesn't mean you're not busting your ass right right but But that one I got over a long time ago because that's, you know, I mean, and growing up, people either hated me because I was Vince McMahon's daughter or they loved me because I was Vince McMahon's daughter.

1:02:57Steph McMahon:But it was never real. And that's what always bothered me the most was like, I want people to either like me or not like me for who I am. Right. You know, and you learn who the real people are and there's a handful of them, you know, if you're lucky. Yeah. And the rest is noise. but easier said than done, right? Like perspective is everything. And having been, and I think too, just to take the risk even to be a public figure now, no matter what that is, entertainer, musician, athlete, if you're gonna be out there in the public eye, people are gonna come at you. You know, and now it's loud because of social media.

1:03:40Steph McMahon:And there are going to be people who just hate you just for whatever reason. You're only as good as your, I mean, in this business, you're only as good as your last match or, you know, whatever. Yeah. Like, it's... But you don't have to... That can be super stressful for somebody new. Yeah, young people. Yeah. Especially. We talk a lot about iconic stories on this show. And when it comes to sports entertainment or professional wrestling, no stories are bigger than the ones written by WWE legends. Superstars like Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock. Trailblazers like Trish Stratus and factions like the NWO and DX.

1:04:23Steph McMahon:Their legacies are unforgettable. And if you want to wear that history, you need the real deal. That's why you've got to check out WWE Shop and Fanatics. They have the ultimate lineup of official WWE Legends merchandise. We're talking classic graphic tees, premium vintage hoodies, and retro gear. Whether you're hitting a live show or just repping your favorite era on the street, Fanatics has you covered. Don't wait. Head over to wweshop.com and fanatics.com right now and grab your favorite Legends gear. We are currently celebrating the 15-year anniversary since the summer of punk. Looking back on that summer of 2011, what memories do you have of it?

1:05:11uh hmm

1:05:25fond memories I remember I think feeling like I leveled up I think that's the big takeaway was holy shit alright now now I'm here but also like be careful what you ask for because now the hard work really begins you know it's like i feel like i busted my ass in my career to get to that moment where i was finally recognized um but i knew you know you're only the rents do every day so i knew like okay and i and i was i was slowing down i wanted to take a bit of a break i was on the road for a very very long time i was fortunate i did every house show every pay-per-view you know um i was running hard for a very long time and looking back on it like 2006 to 2011 it might not sound like a lot of times you know but i mean the international tours we would do and everything um and because i think i wasn't creatively or monetarily like satisfied with where i was i i was like okay well i can take six months off and then i can come back you know like let me let me take a break let me take a break and then lightning struck with the pipe bomb and that whole situation to me was you know like just magic and like we we captured that and it was like well okay i can either go home and squander this or i can ride this lightning bolt you know and i rode the lightning bolt you know and like it really made me feel like i had finally leveled up to

1:07:13in some of the in management's minds i i felt like i leveled up to the level that my ability was always at like i felt like i worked like this top guy and i was finally kind of recognized as that for the first time. Um, and with that came all kinds of other challenges and problems, but, and as you, as you level up, you realize there's more levels to go, but that was, that's the main takeaway. That's definitely how I felt.

1:07:42Steph McMahon:Awesome. Um, and kind of going off of that, what do you remember about going out and delivering the infamous pipe bomb promo that turned the wrestling world upside down? I remember. Now, mind you, the context is I'm still very much leaving, right? In your mind? Yeah. Yeah. I have no new contract. I'm looking forward to, I think the next day, we were flying to Australia and New Zealand, and it was going to be my last tour. you know again australia yeah and i was told this unbelievable thing i want you to go out there and air your grievances no you no you don't you don't you don't want me doing this you know uh and to bring it back instinct i knew if i told your dad this is what i want to say he would say no yeah can't say that okay um i trusted myself to because because i i think the thought was you know he's he's gonna he's gonna swear he's gonna get us fined by the fcc he's gonna get us thrown off the air he's you know like he's gonna whip his dick out i don't know what the you know my intent was never to do anything like that like in the confines of the television show that we do I have too much respect for the business to go so far that I'm just burning a bridge for no reason.

1:09:20Right. Just to do it. It needs to be meaningful. I want you to go out there and air your grievances. Okay. Nothing I did or said was outside of what we did on our television show. Right? Yeah. But knowing my instincts, saying things like New Japan Pro Wrestling. Right. Wildly provocative for some reason. Yeah.

1:09:47Steph McMahon:Right? Yeah, the competition. Because I think everybody knew the rules and everybody knew. A lot of it was just based on stuff that I knew would irritate Vince. Sure. If I said, hey, I want to go out there and talk about Paul and Brock. He'd be like, no, don't mention them. Okay. So I didn't. So I wrote up this bullshit and I gave it to him. That's what I'm going to say. And he read it and his only feedback was, all right, it was good, good. Just make fun of Stephanie. What the fuck? And I was like, excuse me? He's like, yeah, add her in there. Yeah. And I was like, okay.

1:10:39Thanks for taking it easy on me. I was just an idiot. And the funny thing is, people will still, the Twitter smart fans will still argue about it. Like, oh, it was approved. It was this. It was both. It was approved and it wasn't. Yeah. It was approved to a degree. And my instincts told me, I'm not saying anything too bad. like he can't if he's gonna be mad at me he's gonna be fucking mad at me right and you're

1:11:04Steph McMahon:leaving anyway that's fine and this is what he told me to do but it's not like uh oh i'm i'm mad at you and you're just straight up fired although i did think maybe there was a possibility of that um and then i i've i've had a couple of like flow state out of body experiences in the business where because like sometimes i put so much pressure on myself that i i i worry about the situation too much and I overthink it and I almost over prepare because I think there needs to be a bit of like relaxed chaos. It's, it's why I don't like to plan matches. Right. I like to go out there and just be like, well, maybe we'll do this.

1:11:48Steph McMahon:Right. But I'm going to be listening and it might not be a hundred percent. It's a feel. A very difficult thing to get people to understand because I remember the first time I started training, I remember my trainers would say, watch Sean and Razor. I bet they don't even talk to each other. And I was like, what? The fuck you mean? He probably just shoots him off. And when he's coming off the ropes, he sees that he's like this. So he knows he's taking a hip toss. Right. The fuck? Didn't make any sense to me. I was like, that's impossible. You can't possibly do that. And now I hide from people. Right.

1:12:24I'm like, stay away from me. Don't talk to me. No, but the instincts took over and I knew that this, I really felt super strongly about this is the way it has to be. And so I went out and I did it that way. And, you know, when I came back, it was, I smell money is what he said. And at the time, like that was the stamp of approval. That was it. sure that was everything right there taught me a lot about business you know yeah like you sometimes it's art sometimes it's business actually it's always business it's always business yeah sometimes it's art if you can if you can get to the point where it's also art but holy shit you're also selling tickets right like that's the magic that's yeah when it all comes together

1:13:15Steph McMahon:100 % yeah it's funny because I read the pipe bomb oh oh I was like I'm like oh so I read it the transcription of it before doing this today and I was like it's really not that bad like it's funny right perspective in time because in the moment the context is very very important and that goes to illustrate how old I am now that at the fucking time that, yeah, I mean, maybe it doesn't hold up. It does. I really don't know. Because of what it meant in the moment. That thing melted people's TVs. Yeah, it did. No one had ever done that. I mean, DX was controversial, right? And like reading the USA Network standards and practices.

1:14:09Steph McMahon:Right. Like that was very fun. But nobody had yet at that time, to my knowledge, ever talked about like Vince and Paul and me, even though you were directed to like, but in a shoot way. Right. Right. But it also like. But it danced. Listen, I, like you said, I'm a student. It, it, it treaded the line. Yeah. So. Without crossing. And then like, it's, it's hard for me to, to like toot my own horn and talk about this. But like when I see somebody say something like off the cuff and like, like wildly negative about it, like, oh, it's not that great. Like, no, like you don't you don't get it. You don't see what I did.

1:14:53I have seen more people post that promo, try to emulate that and completely miss the point. Yeah. and completely just think that they need to say people's real names or say these outlandish things, and that's what it was. No, that's not what it was. It was me talking about, I mean, I'll give people the formula. I will tell everybody in NXT, this is the formula. Go out there and you tell them four things that they know are true. And then the fifth one can be, I was born on Mars,

1:15:29Steph McMahon:and they'll be like, well, shit, maybe this guy was born on Mars because those other four things he said were true. Yeah. It is nothing new. It was nothing new then. It is nothing new now. I would like to think it was all instincts and content and performance, but propped up by the oldest rules in pro wrestling. Yeah. like to me like i i talk about terry funk a lot a guy i don't talk about enough is johnny valentine johnny valentine even back in the 60s would say but they all know this is bullshit they all know this is fake but when i go out there they're gonna point at me and go but that motherfucker that motherfucker is real and that was the cm punk that walked out on that stage at the Thomas and Mack center in Las Vegas on that July day.

1:16:30And I sat down Indian style cause I was just like, this is it. This is me.

1:16:34Steph McMahon:Which made people automatically when you sat down like that, people started paying attention in a different way. They were listening differently. This wasn't a wrestling promo. Right. Right. By design. Right. Purposely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was awesome. Thank you. I mean, it obviously transformed so many aspects of the business and your career. Yeah. And man, it's remarkable. 15 years of punk. You know, when I was out of the business, I was obviously persona non grata, right? Here, you mean? Or in general? I think everywhere. I mean, I don't think the other place existed yet. and y 'all did a I think a top 100 moments of Raw or something like that maybe it was a Raw anniversary or something maybe I don't know and you guys put the pipe bomb as number one and I remember being like I'm actually flabbergasted at that like to be to be so good And to make that moment what it was, to have him sign off on that and to make that the number one raw moment is, to me, it speaks volumes.

1:18:04That's insane.

1:18:05Steph McMahon:Yeah. It's crazy. And forever. Yeah. Well, somebody will top it. I hope somebody does. I hope there's somebody in NXT. But nobody can ever take away from that moment. No. They can try, but again, that's just noise. Yeah. You know, I trust my instincts. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Tops is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Tops Now, highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Tops Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion.

1:18:47Steph McMahon:Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial-numbered parallels, some Tops Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match. So which moments will you collect? With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Tops Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Tops Now mailing list on tops.com and follow Tops on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment.

1:19:35Steph McMahon:If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Your coffee would never get cold. Your flight would always be on time. and your mattress would always respond to you and your unique sleep needs. Sleep Number mattresses are designed to respond to your body and shift with your changing life, helping you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number, to a good life's sleep. I mean, I was in the business, I don't even know how long before I got signed and then I was in developmental for a year.

1:20:12And then like, so I had tricks up my sleeve that a lot of people coming in didn't, a lot of people from developmental at the time didn't, you know, so I was able to navigate things a little bit better. But, um, there's, there's NXT talent that come up and they get thrown on raw and it's just like, it's, it's sink or swim. Right. You know, but then they think one little mistake, it's like the end of the world. And I'm never going to make it. It's often not. Right. I think it used to be. I think a lot of that's left over from like the old regime. Yeah. Cause I remember people getting fired cause their punches sucked, you know?

1:20:47And then we would all be down there in Kentucky. Like, Oh my God. Like you almost didn't want to get called up. You're just like, Oh God, what happened? We, we, this was a great talent. They got sent up and then they're gone. Two weeks later, we thought, we thought for sure they were going to make it. Right. It's like the turnover was like a lot worse. I think it's a lot better now. The system's a lot more accommodating. And I think there's people in positions of power that actually want to see people succeed. Right. You know? Yeah. I want the next generation to, you know, work less and get paid more than I did.

1:21:27Sure. Because that's what you should want. Right. That's what you should want in any business. I talked to a lot of my, my friends in the NHL and they're stoked that the young kids are like, yeah, they're like, this is great. These young kids are making more money than we ever did. This is great. Right. I want that for, I want that for wrestlers.

1:21:49Steph McMahon:And do you think, you said you think it's getting better. Where do you think it could continue to get better? Because everything is always a work in progress, right? Including human beings. Yeah. um man tv time is an expensive commodity you know um i think taking chances you know it's funny because like historically throughout wrestling i think wrestling bookers and i there's maybe like three bookers left on planet earth yeah you know what i mean like it's it's not just uh this i i'm i'm the owner and the booker and this is my territory uh historically bookers would just kind of do what they liked they would they would produce and tell guys to to wrestle and they would come up with storylines that this is shit they liked i heard lauren michaels say the same thing about snl he just did what he liked.

1:22:53Jared Jarrett booked what he liked in Memphis. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Don Owens in, uh, you know, uh, Seattle booked, you know, in Portland, he booked what he liked. Right. Vince booked what he liked. Yeah. And sometimes it was great. Sometimes it, you know, like, sure. Sometimes just he liked it. Yeah. You know? Uh, but now I think there's, there's so many people in the room and there's so many writers and there's, there's, you know, board members and like all this stuff. Let's tell your husband all the time. Like, I don't envy your position whatsoever. Cause if it's good, it wasn't your idea.

1:23:32And if it sucks, it's all your fucking fault.

1:23:35Steph McMahon:That's right. And I just, you know, uh, to me it's a variety show. So it could, it could have, I guess, more variety. I don't know. But then, you know, then we have Dan Housen. So like, I'm not complaining about shit. Love Dan Housen. That kid is amazing. I'm a fan Housen for sure. He really feels like somebody that wouldn't have happened. Yeah. Although you never know. 15 years ago. You know? Yeah. But. But agreed. He's refreshing to me. He is. Yeah. He's so fun. He's everywhere. He is everywhere. I would. And to me, I'll say the controversial answer now. I would like to see more people be a little more serious about things.

1:24:22And instead of happy to be here, I would like more feedback given to people coming through the curtain instead of just, yep, it's fine. Right. You know, because some people chase the hug. Right. And they come back and they're just like, how was it? Right. They want to be told, you know. um but i always say well just get get off your fucking phone yeah you're looking at twitter to see how your fucking match was yeah did you listen to the people because that's your instant reaction that's that's your boss when you're out there a thousand percent agree with that you know yeah i don't give a shit what somebody on twitter says about your match and by the way if they're empty

1:25:02Steph McMahon:seats that's a big tell that's right the live event audience is i think the most critical audience and I don't mean like other people's opinions don't matter or fans watching on TV or whatever that their opinion doesn't matter but I think that's the best feedback that you get. 100%. I mean, and it's a gift to be able to have that feedback. The dissonance between what wrestling Twitter says or what actually happens in a live building Right? Is crazy. It boggles my mind. I agree. and you can read like especially because you know the algorithms get into however they're serving you stuff and it's like so negative and you would think the business is going away from from what you read online and then you're in the arena watching the show and everybody's so psyched to be there and it's like the best feeling in the world yeah yeah absolutely not yeah i don't know there's 13 000 people there they're right they're pretty they're pretty They're really psyched.

1:26:04They're stoked. They left that night going, oh, I hope. And I hope they want to come back.

1:26:09Steph McMahon:Right. That's the plan. That's what we want them to say. Yeah. But I agree. That live event feedback is just invaluable. But that's interesting. So do you think it's the, or probably a combo, do you think it's the talent that are just looking for the pat on the back? Or is it the powers that be not giving that critical feedback? I think it can be both in some situations. I think sometimes some people don't want to hurt people's feelings. So I think they need to figure out a way to communicate things that, uh, in a positive way. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's a trick. Cause we've all been there. Yeah.

1:26:50Hey, do you got anything for me? Yeah, man, your fucking punches suck and you should fucking quit the business and then burn your boots. You know, like, okay, that might be, that might be a little much, but if you're, if you're earnest in your uh seeking knowledge like oh my punches suck okay how do I how do I make them better yeah because I was a 15 year old kid working at a comic shop that made a ball of tape and hung it from the ceiling and sat there and punched it yeah 10 ,000 times a day yeah you know

1:27:23Steph McMahon:what I mean Paul hung a bolt from a string yeah Kowalski taught him you know yeah exactly yeah And it's just like I want the producers or agents to really focus on helping and giving constructive positive feedback and showing things instead of just saying things. And I also need the talent to be sincere in wanting to get better and grow and keep an open mind and different perspectives on how to receive that information and then apply it. a big problem obviously is we don't do as many live events you know less opportunity so it's harder but um i think the people who really want it will figure it out that's how i did it right you know and if you're only as good as your last match if you get feedback and they're like hey maybe do this and this and this and then you're not going back to florida and working on it right ring right and then the next time we see you you do the same thing and we're just like yeah okay Which I've told you this once before, but we'll say it again.

1:28:29You know, I just, I think every, myself included, everybody can tighten things up a little bit.

1:28:34Steph McMahon:Sure. You know. And we're all a work in progress. Always. Always. Always. Yeah. No rest.

1:28:46Steph McMahon:My dad's philosophy was always outlive them and outwork them. Those tracks. I've heard that multiple, multiple times. Yeah. Tremendous. Oh, I have a question for you. Yeah. What is one of the best pieces of advice, life or business, that you've ever received from Paul Heyman?

1:29:17The first thing that comes to mind, I don't even really think was advice, but it became prophetic because it was true. anytime I was ever frustrated you know and whether it was just like because I do have this drive and based on somebody else's perspective it could be positive or negative you know like fuck you I'm the best right that's how I've always wanted to approach things like oh man I wrestled Eddie Guerrero on the indies and i was immediately like oh boy okay i got some fucking work to do you know yeah you know what i mean but like at the level i was at yeah yeah i thought it was great you know oh shit there's another summit there's another this paul you know like anytime i was frustrated i would say things and he he would just he said one time he was like you're gonna have to leave and come back to get what you want and i was like oh well that stinks because you don't necessarily want to leave right like i'm on the team like you i understand people like being proud of the company you work for like you know right i understand people like oh i work for wwe and we're we're the best well yeah you work there right you know your perspective is going to change based on what team you play for you know you're not going to hear somebody on the ottawa senators saying like oh you know like yeah we're okay but i really i really love to play for the maple leaf greatest way to get yourself thrown out of the locker room you know let's see if they want you You know, and what in turn I learned from that was just like, well, it's not always going to be rainbows and puppy dogs and sunshine.

1:31:02Right. You know, but if you bust your ass and if you are good enough and you're consistent, like, yeah, you do get put in the places you belong. I was just probably impatient, you know, and it takes it took me a long time to get to where I wanted to be. and now I'm where I want to be and now the people are like, you're old and I'm like, what the fuck? You know, like when I was 32, maybe I wasn't ready to receive this. Like I grew into the person that was ready to do it. It wasn't really like advice or maybe it was like a little Yoda-esque because I had to kind of figure it out myself. But, you know, at the time, I took that as like a negative, like, yeah, you're going to have to leave and come back.

1:31:54There's nowhere else to work. Like, what do you know? Like, what do you mean? This is it. Yeah. You know? So that was probably it. Um, other than just trust your instincts and be yourself. Yeah. He was, he was a big one, um, always telling me to trust my instincts, you know and whether I vocalize that with people or not like if I had a feeling about something I was like because you can be talking to somebody about any number of things and they might have more time in the business than you you know right if you're like yeah but I really I really a good example the perfect example um I'm way out of my depth here this is my first pay-per-view It's Survivor Series.

1:32:42We're in Philly. I lived in Philly at the time. Hardcore fan base. They all know me. I'm debuting on pay-per-view. I've only been on TV since, what, like August? August, September, October, November Survivor Series. I've been on the road full time for four months. I'm still a newbie. Sure. Right? Yeah. I'm in a Survivor Series match against, I'm sorry, not against. It's me, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Matt Hardy, and Jeff Hardy. So there's four people that have been on television consistently since 1992, three, 96, 97 for the Hardys.

1:33:30Steph McMahon:Compared to your four months. Yeah, four months. And Pat Patterson, fucking legend, he's the agent. He's sitting there going over the match. We're working, was it Mike Knox? Edge? Can you guys pull it up? Hurricane. Oh, here it is. There it is. Randy. Who's the fifth guy? I'm not going to remember. Oh, my gosh. Let's see. The reason I can't remember is because there's a million names. He did have a lot of names. And, you know, and Pat's there and Pat's like, okay guys, this is what we do. We get the heat on Jeff. We get the heat on Jeff. We get the heat on Jeff. And the little fucking voice in my head was just like, you should get the heat on me.

1:34:22You know, like.

1:34:23Steph McMahon:Yeah. And Edge, to his credit, was like, I really, I really think we'd give it to the kid. It was either, it was either to get the heat on him or give him the comeback. I can't, I can't, I can't really remember. But the moment. yeah there was there was there was a some mechanical device in the match where like you know i was really like ah i can't i can't just stand here in this group of people and raise my hand and be like i think it should be me right so i just like kind of sat there just like ah and pat and pat oh no it's jeff hardy they go crazy for hardy they don't know who this kid is you know blah blah blah and i was just like from his perspective right he's not wrong i i had no ill will towards Pat.

1:35:07I was just like, well, he's no, he's fucking right. It's Jeff. They'll go fucking banana for Jeff. Right? And I think they eventually they agreed and they gave me the moment or whatever like that and then after the match he came up to me. He's like, I am so sorry. I had no idea they know who you are. Oh my God, they love you. You know what I mean? And like from that point on, I was Pat's guy. And I was like, fuck. How cool. Like, man, And I really, I really earned my money that day. But like, that was a super cool fucking moment. And like, yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't mad at Pat, but it was just like one of those instincts in my head that I was just like, I don't know.

1:35:48I just, I'm feeling something. Pat knew me for four months. Right. You know what I mean? You were just another new kid. And he looked at it, he looked at it and he was like, no, Jeff. From Pat's perspective that I've heard him say there's old shit and there's new shit. Yeah. Yeah. and so like that was one of those days one of the greatest days of my career honestly because I felt like I earned Pat's fucking love you know that's so cool

1:36:12Steph McMahon:and that was tough to do yes it was it really was yes it was

1:36:19but then I would start asking him questions about like Ray Stevens and shit and he'd be like oh yeah oh yeah then you were really in

1:36:26Steph McMahon:yeah then I'd get to nerd out with Pat you know what I mean And I would be like, oh, well, Harley said one time, you know, Harley was so many great stories to Pat. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Tremendous. Yeah. He is a legend. Absolutely. Yeah. First intercontinental champion. Created the Royal Rumble. Rio de Janeiro. As as it happens. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That happened. That happened. The lore. That happened. Unfortunately, there's no footage of it. It was eaten by moths.

1:37:01Steph McMahon:So I did want to ask you, but we can edit or whatever you... No, going back to your childhood, because I do think there are a lot of kids who are growing up in difficult homes. Some kids don't have parents at all. Some have abuse issues, substance abuse issues, physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental health challenges. How do you survive and ultimately thrive to get through that environment? How do you get to the other side of that? Well, okay. So suffering is relative. I think I might have said that earlier already. So like.

1:37:58Steph McMahon:Yeah, maybe suffer is the wrong word. Well, no, but like for everybody it's different. And I guess it could always be worse. Right. I grew up in a house where my parents, like the phone book was open on the kitchen table to divorce lawyers every day. And there'd be knock down, drag out fights, nothing physical. Mom didn't beat up dad. Dad, dad, dad, beat up mom. But it was just constant yelling and screaming and anger. And I was a kid and I didn't understand how, like, one year I got a transformer for Christmas and the next year I got socks. And when I look back at it now with the perspective is like, okay, so that's probably when my dad got laid off.

1:38:43Right. Right. and there was always money for you know a 30-pack of old style and a carton of cigarettes a piece and and wine and whatever medication whatever expensive doctor told you you needed to take and it wasn't so much it was it was just like a like a neglect like i can't play baseball anymore because you can't afford it hockey's expensive so that's fucking out i have no uh recourse to to do anything um and it i discovered through music i discovered punk rock and i discovered oh shit they don't they're not paying attention to me i'd disappear for weeks at a time or a weekend and i would go into the city and i'd go to these punk shows um you know my friend my friend Nora who was at the all state arena on Monday, you know, like she'd pick me up and we'd disappear into the city and we'd go to the fireside bowl and see the blue meanies or see like, I think I saw green day play in 1993 or 94 at the fireside bowl, this old dilapidated bowling alley.

1:39:55And I found a community through that. Like these, Oh, the shit, these people, somebody would buy me a hot dog. And I, you know, like just experienced all this shit that I didn't get like at home, you know? And then, And I think that helped me. Like, I felt like I was a misfit. I felt like I didn't, you know, like I had a sibling who got bought a car, went to college, dropped out. Like they spent the money. Yeah. So when it came my turn, whether it was just through circumstance of bad luck, you don't have a job now or what fucking ever. But like I didn't, I didn't get shit. I didn't get anything.

1:40:34So I had to outsource, you know.

1:40:37Steph McMahon:Right. And. Including love. I'm not going to say it was easy for me, but again, I think some kids have it a lot harder with like violence or sexual abuse or stuff like that. So I'm definitely not crying over spilt milk. I turned out okay. But I wasn't getting what I thought I needed. Like, did you get hugs? No. No. Like, I. But at the time, I was just like. I wasn't like, hey, I want a hug. You know what I mean? That was the way it was. This was just it. I would get into fights at school and I'd have a black eye and I would come home and I would just hear, that's not how you win a fight. And I would just be like, fucking cool.

1:41:26All right. Words of encouragement. Thanks. That's not how you win a fight? What the fuck? I'm okay. I'm all right. Thanks. you know and then I I just I like I said I I outsourced so for any kid that's going through some you know some rough shit um you know I can't tell you exactly how to better your your situation without details or stuff like that just know that there's there's a there's a space for you somewhere like I found it through music and then I found it through wrestling um because man if there was ever a place where I belong. It's a pro wrestling locker room. Talk about just misfits, you know?

1:42:07Steph McMahon:I've always said we're like the island of misfit toys. 100%. Yeah. Because I'd be sitting in the locker room and everyone would be like, you don't do drugs, you're weird, kid. You fit right in. And then there would be fucking smoking crack in the bathroom and I'd just be like, fucking wild, all right, cool. And nobody gave a shit. Nobody cared what color you were, what your religion was. it was just like we're all wrestlers and it was us versus them yeah and i was like man that's what i thought my you know like these people treat me better than mom and dad and it doesn't make any fucking sense to me right you know so at a very early age like i didn't i didn't cry about it i was just like well i'm not getting it here i'll get it here right you know uh but find your community yeah but but i also think that can be very difficult sure for for some people for me i I think it was very easy, even whether you want to say I'm cold-hearted or whatever it was, but it was very easy for me to just be like, okay, no, all right.

1:43:10Right. I'll go here, you know. And I tried to, I don't know, fix things is the word, but you find out real fast, like, when you become famous and you have money.

1:43:26Steph McMahon:Right. Kind of. Yeah, crawling back. Kind of changes everything. You know, I've paid for more mortgages and funerals in my time than I care to count. But also, like, I look at it like. Right. You can afford to do it. It's money. I'll make more. And you showed me who you were. Yeah. When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, a great quote that I always like, and I like to tell people, if you feel like you're going through hell, keep going. Yeah. Because chances are. You're going to get to the other side. You're going to get to the other side a lot faster than if you stop and you turn around and you go back.

1:44:09Steph McMahon:Yeah. Or if you just stop. Yeah. Well, then you're stuck in hell. Right. Keep moving. Right. Keep moving. That's great advice. And what do you need to believe? I have never lacked self-belief. So I think you need to, I think you need to believe in yourself. It's really important. I think it's real easy for, uh, you know, to me, like my brain, my head was like a boat and I'm floating through the ocean. And if I let the water in, I'm going to sink. So if anybody would be like, well, you, you suck, you're still whatever. I'd be like, I'm not, I'm not going to believe that. Right. I'm just going to keep doing me.

1:44:54Yeah. I'm just going to be happy and do what I like. I became a wrestler because I wanted to be a wrestler. It wasn't like, oh, I want to be rich and famous.

1:45:02Steph McMahon:Right. You know? I think a lot of kids today, if you ask them what they want to be, they tell you they want to be famous. Yeah. And I don't enjoy being famous at all. To me, fame is— It could be a burden. Fame is an apparition. Yeah. It doesn't really fucking exist. You know, it's just a side effect of being good at what you do. Yeah. That's it. Big news, WWE and sports fans. The world's number one sports fan festival, Fanatics Fest, is making its return to New York City. Fanatics is bringing you closer to the leagues, teams, superstars, and athletes you love across four action-packed days in July.

1:45:54Steph McMahon:Meet your favorite WWE superstars, get your hands on exclusive merch, and interact with the biggest names in sports. Then fans of the show can get a 10 % discount by using Steph10 at checkout. That's S-T-E-P-H, the number one, the number zero, at checkout. I told Elise when we first started doing this, I said, you're going to start getting a lot of comments. I said, there's going to be a lot of negative comments. Don't read them. Try your best not to read them. There's going to be a lot of negative comments. And then there's going to be a lot of positive comments. Both of them are bullshit. Nobody reads the positive comments.

1:46:34Steph McMahon:But it's 100%. Real. Because if you believe the great stuff, well, now you're an egomaniac. But then you also have to believe the bad stuff. It's just tough. And it's hard not to read it because you want feedback, but it's not the right feedback to your point. No, I think it's easy for anybody to sit back and criticize. I know I'm sure at some point in history, I'm guilty of it. You know, Twitter just gave. I'm still guilty of it. And I'm preaching and I do the same thing and I catch myself. Twitter just gave everybody a voice and I really don't need to fucking hear what everybody thinks. You know, I don't care.

1:47:12Like I look at things like, um, I look at like a rotten tomato score of like the thing. John Carpenter is a thing. 1984. And it, I like, how is that not a hundred percent? Right. Who the fuck made that call? Don't care. I'm going to fucking ignore them. Right. You know what I mean? Like, okay. There's, there's, there's a, there's something for everybody. Like some wrestling is not for me. I understand that there's an audience for it. So cool. Go do that. but comparison is the thief of joy. Right. You know, right. Like you can't, you can't compare a lot of things like apples to, to apples. Right.

1:47:55Steph McMahon:And everyone's different and everyone's circumstances different. But I don't, I don't think like your mindset is common. Like the ability you have to just, even at a young age, it sounds like your boat. I'm picturing like the way to just shut out. The negative? Well, we call it radicalization, right? Like, when were you radicalized? I was radicalized very, very young. And it was by my parents because I just sat back and I whined. I was like, this is a... Yeah. Okay. And you didn't repeat the same patterns, but a lot of people do. I mean, it's easy. I mean, people talk about like childhood trauma and this is the reason why you did this and blah, blah, blah.

1:48:41And I don't think it really necessarily goes that deep. I just think I saw money and time and stuff spent on drugs and alcohol. And I was just like, that shit doesn't make any sense to me. And not to get into the religion thing, but again, I see you spending money on this stuff and you're throwing a 50 in the collection plate every Sunday. You're not going to get over it. And I'm wearing this. So like, so this is one of those, one of those things, if you talk about childhood trauma, like I used to have like one pair of jeans and one pair of shoes, you know? And like, I didn't care. Right. And then I had money and I was still wearing them and I was just like, I don't really, I don't really care because this is fucking whatever, you know?

1:49:29Like, and now I feel guilty, like that I have like multiple pairs of shoes and like I own these suits and like I have that little like I have some guilt about that you know and that's just something I got to work through but yeah I always you're giving this you're giving money to other people and you're telling me I can't right you don't have the the tuition so I can play baseball I was good at baseball right you know I was like you're an athlete yeah you know no

1:49:59Steph McMahon:and was there like a boys and girls club for you or anything like that no I mean everything was school extracurricular activities. You know what I mean? I didn't have the money to do anything. Wrestling, football. I tried out for them. I made the team. The coach was like, you gotta cut your hair. And I was like, well. Can't do that. How long was your hair back then? Oh, I had a mohawk. I had a spiky mohawk or like a short mohawk? Purple Liberty Spike mohawk. So just straight down the middle. Full punk.

1:50:41Steph McMahon:Do we have pictures of this? I know. I was actually just thinking. This is like the one regrettable thing, right? Because I don't really talk to anybody in my biological family. There's a plethora of baby pictures out there somewhere. That'd be pretty good. Yes. Somewhere along the line, we need to get these. There's some pictures. I know. I think we might have used them for some things. that I'm not exactly sure. But the purple mohawk, I definitely have not seen. I don't know. I mean, AI could generate. Oh, please, no. Please, and if anybody watches this, please don't make AI art. At least found it earlier, I didn't.

1:51:20Yeah, I mean, like glue in my hair knocks to it.

1:51:25Steph McMahon:Oh, yeah, because you've got to get it to stand up. Got it. Yeah, yeah. Hurricane couldn't have blown that hair over. did you blow it dry upside down no because I would literally I would boil Knox gelatin on the stove and then you just kind of put it in and you style it and spike it and that shit I had to shave my head eventually you don't sleep well gently not fun not fun but so believing in yourself, community, doing what you love, right? If you're lucky enough to be able to do that, tuning out the noise. What else? I don't know. That might be enough. I think it is. You know, I think it is. But when you said you were the best in the world, did you believe it at that time?

1:52:25Steph McMahon:Cause you said, the first time I said it pipe bomb. Yeah. When, when, just cause you had said that like when you thought you were really doing well and then you'd get in the ring with Eddie and you'd be like, oh, I've got a long way to go. Like, yeah. And that it would really, really frustrate you. Is that because you believed you were the best in the world or just because. My world was very small at that moment. Yes. Okay. It was a small bubble. So you were the best. Right? Yeah. So in this, in this bubble. But, but I think it helped you. Yeah. In a way. Right? Well, no, 100%. Like to have that confidence.

1:52:59Absolutely. Yeah. Because I think, I think anybody else at that stage would have been scared shitless to be in a room with Eddie.

1:53:06Steph McMahon:Right. And I was like, nope. Yeah. I want to learn. I want to, I want to go. There's that three way that I had with Eddie and Ray and it was in Indianapolis. I don't know what the building it was. It was small, you know, like a rec center kind of thing. And like Eddie had just gotten fired because he got a DUI. he's getting a divorce I walk in the locker room and there's you know Eddie is just kind of sitting there he probably just flown in he's probably exhausted he probably didn't sleep right he's struggling with staying sober at this moment sure because he wants his family back he wants his job back I walk up to him I say hey Mr.

1:53:44Guerrero I'm wrestling you tonight and he looked up at me and he smiled and he's like hey is it okay if you and Ray just put it together he's like I don't I'm not good at three ways and I was like you're the boss yeah Anything you want. And I get with Ray, talk about this match, talk to Eddie. Sounds good. Like he trusted Ray, he knew Ray. You didn't need to do shit with me. And to this day, it's one of my favorite matches. Yeah. Me and Ray are constantly like, if I see it come up in my feed, I send it to Ray and vice versa.

1:54:18Steph McMahon:That's so cool. Yeah. It's a real. Precious moments. It's a super precious moment. Yeah. You know? And I always, every time I see Ray, I grab him. Hey, man, I love you. We're still here. We're still doing this. Look at us. How cool. That's really fucking cool. It's very cool. Yes. Community. Which I equate to love. Yeah. You know, and the importance of love. But there was one last lesson from you, and that is to do what scares you. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think that's really important. Yeah. And that's not, you know, that's not join the army and. right you know well it's whatever it means to you right it might mean different things to different people the the the gosh the the worry of screwing up and looking stupid and failing i think has probably killed more careers and brilliant minds than anything else you know because there i think everybody at some level early on experiences bullying sure you know like people get made fun of for their hair, the way they look and like, you know, like whatever.

1:55:31Your weight. So it immediately, you know, gets them to shell up and stay inside when I think that, you know, that's probably done more harm for some of the greatest creative minds that we'll never know about. You know, like I want, I want people to fit. Like I'll, I tell the kids all the time, like go fail spectacularly.

1:55:54Steph McMahon:Yeah. you never you never know like what's gonna come of it yeah you might literally become at peace with whatever it is and go oh okay you know what that's the worst that could happen that's or you know what that's not for me and then you go find something else right you know or you go oh that's not so bad what about even asking somebody out you know i mean i what's been in the back of my mind when you mentioned like doing things that scare the shit of you. Me asking April to marry me. And knowing how she felt about marriage. Like you think for a second I give a shit what somebody says about me stepping into a fucking cage when the scariest moment of my life was like buying a ring and not knowing like I don't know shit about jewelry.

1:56:47Right. You know I don't know shit about like does she like jewelry like i just knew i had to ask her this question and fuck what if she says no i have such goosebumps like what you know like that's scary yeah you know like falling on my face getting beat up and fucking choked out i don't i you know what i had pancakes the next morning with my beautiful wife and i was just like yeah what do you want to do next you know what i mean like that's what matters most yeah i coming back to wwe it was a little scary i bet that's when i knew i was like well i have to i have to fucking i have to do it you know yeah main eventing wrestlemania at 47 years old it's a little scary i bet you know telling yourself okay you know what yeah get in the best shape of your life that's a little scary so i have to i have to do these things someday i'm not going to be able to do these things anymore but it's not fucking today that's right so amen here we are right i love that i think that's a great way to

1:57:56Steph McMahon:end it thank you so much until part two yeah i could keep talking i mean i really yeah yeah it's fun. Have you told the story of how you proposed or is that private? I feel like I feel like I've told it. I feel like I've heard you say that April had to tell it. I don't know. Have you guys heard it? I don't know. If you're comfortable telling it, we'd love to hear it, but understand if you're not. I'll tell you. Okay. I'll tell you. Because I feel like maybe Well, and maybe you have and we just. She had a, she had a little condo in Tampa, right? Cause she was in Tampa for FCW. She got pulled up the road.

1:58:47So she was still living in Tampa. Sometimes she would come to Chicago. Sometimes I would go to Tampa. I think, I feel like we dated for like two years, but we didn't. Right. I had a girlfriend. she had a boyfriend and we would just always be around each other.

1:59:04Steph McMahon:Right. And I really feel like looking back at it now I go, Oh, it was obvious. Okay. Yeah. You know, like, uh, zero physical happened. Sure. It was just, it was just like, you were drawn to each other. Yeah. Yeah. Undeniable. Uh, so when I get the bright idea that, you know, I'm going to ask her to marry me, like, I think we've only truly literally been dating for like six months, but it was just, you know, ask me how I knew. Yeah. You just noticed it. I just knew. So I get this fucking ring and I'm anxious because I'm like. Do you even know her ring size? No. Right? You know nothing. Oh, no. I went, I can't remember exactly.

1:59:46I back channeled to get it somehow. Okay. Somebody at work, you know, like I can't remember. But the things I stress about, like I'm going to spend money on this ring and I'm like, oh is this am I spending enough money

2:00:02Steph McMahon:right like I don't know what a weird thing right like it's supposed to be like some sort of like housewives of like Decatur County like giant rock like what am I supposed to spend on this thing does it mean how much I love you like I knew I knew like I knew her favorite color and I knew her and I it was just like one of those things where I was just like I was basing it off that you know um and then I found out there's an engagement ring and a wedding ring and I was like i'm out of my depth here you know but so uh the the this is the plan i came up with um i bought her flowers every week right so whether she was in chicago there'd be flowers or if she was in tampa and i was in chicago in between being on the road any kind of flower i would just call i would just call up a florist okay and just be like yeah dude do roses what do you got today send whatever so always different yeah i'm not saying every day but at least once a week flowers i'd never write anything on the card because i was gonna see her in a couple days anyway like what do you write you know i'm not even sure we were at i love you yet you know what i mean so like i don't know what the fuck am i writing in the card you know like hey see you soon babe i don't i don't know you know um so So we went out, I think, to get groceries, and I had a delivery coming, and on the card I wrote, Will you marry me?

2:01:37Okay? So we come back from the groceries. There's the flowers. They're delivered. They just put them there. And, you know, I'm probably like pale or gray, just like sweating. And we like get inside and I got these groceries and I'm like, I put the groceries on the kitchen counter and I'm just like standing there. And she like goes and gets the flowers and puts them on the counter. And she starts like putting the groceries away. Right. And I'm like, you know, I'm just like looking at the flowers. She like turns around She's like you can help me put the groceries Oh yes sorry

2:02:14Steph McMahon:So now I'm putting the groceries away You know what I mean And she's not paying any mind to the flowers Because she doesn't think there's a card Because there's nothing written on the card So imagine that

2:02:28Shot myself in the foot on that one So we like put the groceries away And she's like thanks for the flowers babe And I'm like I can't describe how I was I just had to be acting so weird I'm sure you know I'm sure like hands in my pocket standing like really rigid like straight just like like looking at the flowers and just being like you know and so like she goes and sits on the couch and like turns the TV on and she's like what are you

2:02:55Steph McMahon:doing what are you doing I'm just like standing in the kitchen like a horror movie you know what I mean I'm just like trying to come up with the brain power to figure out I knew he was too good to be truly and then she gets up and she like kind of looks at me and she's like and I don't know if she figured something out enough to like you know snatch the thing and open it up and you know and like while she turned around to read it I was like oh my god Get the ring out And then she turned around And was just staring at me And we both sat there with tears in our eyes Probably what felt like Five minutes And then I was just I think I said Do I get down on my knee?

2:03:48And she was like yep And I got down on my knee And I said will you marry me? And she said yes Yes

2:03:59Steph McMahon:Oh my gosh now I get why that was the scariest thing you've ever done that was rough it was all I remember is I was legit sweating sweat went into my eye I was like oh my god because so many things go through my head because I'm literally like I can run away right now it hasn't happened yet I can abort mission on this you know which is not what you want to be thinking at the moment you know yeah but yeah i didn't i didn't contemplate like how this could have gone south it went south it did not i mean she said yes it course corrected but like in that moment i'm like oh this isn't yeah this isn't great yeah you saw it differently like i'm sure i'm sure there was like a mumble like you're not gonna read the card there's something in these flowers had to be like Yeah, it was a stressful situation But I think they're supposed to be, right?

2:05:04Steph McMahon:They are The imperfection is what makes it so great I think so And you guys were obviously Meant to be together I love to watch the two of you together I really do And especially the way she talks about you And the way you talk about her And the way you look at each other It's very rare It's beautiful it's beautiful thanks for sharing that with us we try to be very protective of our private life but I think that's a sweet story it is and it's something you were scared to do that you did that mattered the most and if you never would have asked who knows I like to think you guys would have been together anyway if I never asked you would have stabbed me

2:05:59she is tough we learned that i mean yes we did yes she is well thank you so much no problem

2:06:06Steph McMahon:this is just incredible i look forward to part two we'll do another one yeah yeah absolutely when we have even more perspective yeah yeah i love it thank you and elise's shit story has to come out of that one i'm working on it guys maybe tonight's the night It'll happen. It will. Don't be scared. Thank you both for putting this on me. I could pee. It doesn't have to be. Well, no, but it's a better story if it's shit. Don't shard. Shard? Shard? Shard. Shard. Shard. Shard. Shard. Yeah, I guess it makes more sense. The shit fart. There's no D at the end. There's no D, but it sounds sharding. I feel like it sounds like a D.

2:06:51Steph McMahon:We're going to end this now. It might be a completely different thing. it could be it could very well be now I'm sweating I'm sweating also thank you thank you thank you