John Cena - Part 2

30:44And the XFL. And then. First iteration. Yep. Yeah. And then the housing crisis. I remember some lean years. I remember I was really trying to pull together my beans when it was like at$6.40 a share. I'm like, man. Come on now. Can I buy this place and just kick everybody out of the writer's room and do some crazy shit? Let's have some fun. And I obviously did not do that. but I've been to... Well, and just for the show, trading at$6.40, and now here we are at like$135. And it's TKO, and it's a completely different company. It is. But it's the evolution. Yes. A lot more talent-friendly. It has become a lot more of a media company.

31:28Rather, it is still a live event company, but it's much more of a media company. A lot of things have changed. there's man there's a real wrestling farewell i had to pitch this idea to tko and hoping that they would see the business in it and they were like uh yes this is this is going to be good and this will help us solidify these relationships are you okay if in doing this you help us solidify these relationships let's do this because it's either this or i tweet that i'm retired and and the other isn't gonna help us at all right so um i don't know i don't know if that conversation could have happened uh without the evolution of where it is um man i know i know that people now know like are now racing to get involved with this.

32:26So that's another, another metric that athletes are like, oh man, the next in line program. And then the way we reach out to, uh, independence through evolve and it's like our developmental territory is not a developmental territory. It's a legitimate standalone brand. Like that alone says like, oh, we just want to train these guys. We're going to just throw it out there as a TV show. Oh, they're superstars now. Okay, great. All right. They're, they've been in the ring for two months, but they're going to be out there and just doing it. But it's larger. But I think so. I think so. I think you are such a massive part of this company's evolution.

33:08And I know you will continue to leave your mark, even well beyond your in-ring years. And I know that's not your goal. It's not your goal to be a legacy persona, so to speak. but you can't help but be well so maybe not in a quadrillion years good good to say it's a I'm not a goal of mine isn't be an unforgettable personality but I will say I love the WWE I there are a lot of people who do I love it as much as anyone not more as much as anyone can love something the wwe i love it as much as anybody does and every interview every movie set all i do is like this is just like wwe guys i used to think they were different but this is the like i channel all my experiences through the crucible that I've been through and I'll never not love it no matter who owns it no matter who runs it no matter who the superstars are no matter if I don't know them if I if I'm caught up on programming if I'm not there once you get to that level I there's no way it's like this place I love lifting weights and just because it's on the downslope doesn't mean I love it any less any less like i will always love it so of course i will always advocate for it and i don't need an important title behind that i don't need any title uh when you guys finally are like hey thank you for your service it's been great playing with you and that happens because everything always ends i'm not going to go out the next day and badmouth the thing that i love and i don't I don't use the word wrestling.

35:08I use the words WWE. Like I don't like wrestling. I like, I love WWE specifically. It's where I like where I belong. So as long as that's a sentiment in my life, I'm always going to try to get people to watch and try to get people to experience and get invested in because man it is it's made my life this crazy fucking roller coaster and here we are sitting in the gym one of us dressed for the occasion

35:44you know it's like a big thing to figure out what to wear right especially as a woman and so we both should have communicated and you know i thought about that i'm like i should have texted him last night and we should have we should have planned this out because apparently what a what a what a cool exercise in snap judgment right yeah like oh no i got this figured out it's a gym they're gonna get some stuff steffi man she's always so this is a big part of never seen her in athleisure me evolving athleisure is the word yes but it's me being myself yeah and whether it's in the show or in the podcast i'm not a talking head i'm not trying to be diplomatic in any way i'm not um spewing i've actually been pulled back from spewing corporate numbers because they're just so ingrained yeah you know when here's a question for you when did you become so polished i don't know that i'm so polished but i'm trying to like you are like incredible you and i have done a lot of hey we we're gonna have to speak to this group of people and I'm usually the guy who's allowed to go out there and say fuck and you have just such information and like you when did you get so polished I think probably just experience you know it's like the 10 ,000 hours of whatever it is I'm sure I've spoken for more than 10 ,000 it's impressive it is it is it's super impressive well thank you coming from you that uh that means a lot no like yeah impressive but i i'm also and i'm also glad that you're comfortable showing yourself like this is who i am that's you don't need to be anybody else but you i don't think the conversation suffered because of our attire no it certainly did not but you do you look fantastic so do you what are you doing listen i got two looks one is this and and the other one's that.

37:47And I literally just thought it would be cool juxtaposition. That's what I was thinking when I'm like, as we're sitting down, I'm like, oh, if I were dressed up, it would be so cool. Cause then it's like us in like the counter position. But we didn't communicate. We didn't communicate. We didn't. But it's, it's brought us to this. It absolutely still works. We don't have a jujitsu mats, but you can work out if you want to after this. You're just on occasion. Oh, thanks, thanks. Yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't know. I didn't know if you were going to try to make me do something, so I came ready. I appreciate that.

38:23I'm also pretty, we're actually pretty good in here about, like, allowing people to train how they want. It's, like I said, we're trying to bring the best out of folks. So whatever gets you to be your best, whatever gets you to ring that bell over there, you're good. Ringing the bell, what does that mean? that is something that I picked up from a gym I saw it at. And it was like, it's a personal best bell. Huh. And I saw, they had a very small one. And I was like, all right, we need to get like a ship's bell. Real bell, yeah. And it's just a way, sometimes there's only one or two people in here.

39:04Sometimes there's a whole lot more. And regardless of the attendance, if you are here alone and you ring the bell, it is fucking awesome yeah it's just um another check down to be present take a second realize what just happened because what just happened was you thought you were capable of something and you just move the needle beyond what you thought you were capable of and now you know that that's not possible and where else can you go and that's all tied to that metal and rope and it's just a just that one last check down of like man I didn't even think that was possible and now I did it what's next so as a part of my personal passion for pediatric cancer kids ring the bell and I'm sure adults do too but I know of kids ringing the bell at the hospital and they're done with their last treatment and there's nothing better it's all ringing that bell yeah and it becomes essentially what you what you make it it is just metal and rope but it is it is making the impossible possible and that's there's never a sweeter sound you are the number one make-a-wish grantor of all time how did you become that and why do you make it so why is it so important to you to grant these wishes for these kids?

40:42That's a multi-parter. How did I become that? That's because of WWE, because of you guys. I don't think without you I would have found that charity. My first experience was an accident. I was dragged into a room where the family was supposed to meet another superstar and eventually did. But, like, you know, everybody's under one roof backstage and like here, while you're waiting for whomever, meet some of the other people. And I just shook hands with people. And when I left, they were like, oh, that was a Make-A-Wish family. Thanks for doing that. And I was like, what's that? And I was introduced to the concept.

41:22WWE and Make-A-Wish, as you know, you are probably loaded with more stats than me. They've been together for a long time. and I don't think that there is a better environment for Make-A-Wish or I think WWE is one of the top environments for Make-A-Wish because you can get intimate connection and then you get immediate suspension of disbelief. You get a true day off. If you've ever been in a WWE audience, you think about nothing but what's going on right then and there and you lose yourself. And on top of that, because we're entertainment, when you really begin to lean into the process, you can like, hey, you want to see anything out there tonight?

42:01Yes, I would like you to hit a home run, and I would like you to use this maneuver. My Rolodex, who I'm wrestling, what I'm doing. Yeah, I'll do it. You will? Yeah, sure. Where are you sitting? I'll make sure to notice you. And it becomes something that is so vast can become so intimate. And like, it's just me and that family out there for just a split moment in time, and no one knows the difference. They're in on it. I'm in on it. I'm not going into business for just us. The show doesn't suffer one bit, but it becomes like a true something special. WWE is one of the top environments for the Make-A-Wish experience.

42:44I don't know how much participation I'll have outside of WWE because my life is boring outside of WWE. It's not like it doesn't offer the same escapism. It doesn't offer the same experience. And I would want whomever is wanting to meet me, I would want them to do it at an event. So I can show up like this, do my thing, and then be like, hey, but go watch these people. This is going to be great. A lot of the escape and a lot of the excitement is in the event.

43:20important that's a good word to use it's a good word because when you learn what the charity is of like these are children and families facing some harsh conditions and we have the ability to make crazy things happen and they were chosen to have one crazy thing happens and they want to hang out with you. If I were to neglect that, to me that lives outside my values. And I would like to think that that is, I'm okay with someone not putting that in their front, but I think when they understand that philosophy, if they don't have at least five minutes of their 24 hours to spend with that family connecting at a performance they're already attending and going to participate in, I don't know how significant a relationship I would have with that person.

44:24So I've done wishes like as they're playing my music. It's like you think that this whole thing is important, and it is, because a lot of people pay good money to be entertained, and this is what they want to put their resources to, and it's very meaningful to them. But then it's like, do you have a few seconds to do this? Because these are the conditions on which I need your seconds. And I will hold up everything. Yes, I do. Or I'll bring kids out there with me. We got to go. Let's go. Hear that? That's my music. It has been so beautiful in that, like, no matter what, time stops for this thing.

45:06There's always just a few seconds. And that can make the difference. so it's important to me because it's in the pocket with my values I don't I'm I'm aware of the number because it raises awareness for the charity so we can do more wishes period end of story I'm fine with who I am as a human being and I don't that is not that doesn't define me but I will never leave somebody in the lurch in that regard. Like anytime it's like, oh, make a wish, I want you to do this. No problem. Let's do it. Do you think in any way you or WWE provide hope? Man, everything can provide hope. So 100%. How important is hope?

45:53Without hope, there's nothing. That's just my perspective. Right. Like once you lose hope, you have abandoned, like I'm no longer going in that direction. So we're talking about hope for survival. So once you've abandoned hope, you're no longer going in that direction. That's the end of the story. Like hope is, in my lens, one of the most powerful things. If you still believe that something can happen and you have hope that it can, hopefully you're putting rubber to road in making those things happen. And like, again, man, it just gives these families a day off. And a lot of times you can't, I don't come in here every day.

46:37You can't. The days off are as valuable as the days on. When you are climbing that hill every day, a day off is real useful. And it can just, you're right, it can provide very valuable hope. And you never know what that can do. It might do nothing. but it might not do nothing. And that's a gamble I'm going to push in on. Connor's dad, Connor, who we lost, I was having this exact conversation with him about the opportunity. I'm so glad you brought it up because it's not just about meeting the person, right, the superstar, but then it's about, like, the ultimate distraction being out there. And for three hours or however long it lasts, that child doesn't have to think about being sick or what medications they're going to take or anything like that.

47:33And those parents are watching their child be free of all of that and hopefully free of pain. Yeah. Even for a few moments. and I was having this conversation with Connor's dad and he said, Steph, it lasts a whole lot longer than a few hours. Yeah. So just thank you for making such a difference and providing so much hope to so many kids and their families throughout all these years. I truly appreciate that. But it matters. It really matters. You have no idea the impact you've made and the hope you've provided. and that hope really does make a difference and it can help some kids push past their illness.

48:21I believe and agree with you, but I'm not in it for the thanks. I know, but I'm saying it anyway. Okay, cool. That's cool. That's cool. I just, I was there. Like I know, I lived all that stuff. I know. and it's the cool thing about those moments is that I can tell because of how emotional you are that it's an absolute boomerang. Whatever you think you give to somebody, they give back to you exponentially and whatever you've given and whatever somebody can say that you've given, the reason you're emotional is because they gave you just as much. You still wear that emotion on your wrist. like I never need a thank you from anybody which is kind of like I got to get out of my own way a lot of times on like especially words of affirmation I'm fucking horrible at that but uh I don't need a thank you because I was there that's enough and it still gives like man I have cruddy days just like everybody else but when I'm sifting through the crud trying to get clean a lot of those moments helped me do that.

49:36The experience is thanking to me more than enough. So before I show you around, because you can see everything, what stands out? What do you see when you walk in here? I did see the Marines, right? And so I did not know that you wanted to be a Marine before you got into WWE. I wanted to be a Marine because one, I thought they didn't refuse anyone. Two, Two, I knew I would always have a roof off my head. Three, I loved uniforms. Waking up early, I knew I'd be able to work out, and I'd be well-fed. So I chose the Marines because I failed at everything else. Like I tried to apply my degree, and no strength company would take me, or fitness company would take me.

50:17I got a job. The best I could do was disassembling fitness equipment in a warehouse because I wasn't good enough to go on the fitness install crew. I failed the— And this is after college. Yeah. Like, I got a fucking degree from a university that specializes in, like, ex-phys kines. And I just couldn't put it into practice. I tried to be a cop. I failed the CHP exam. Like, I was like, man, I kind of just work in the front desk at Gold's Venice. And that's enough. Like, I get to train every day. It's cool. I'm well fed. I'm good. but I gotta think more long term. Like, what's the next play? And I wanted to remain physical.

50:58I wanted to keep myself at a top level of performance. And I'm like, the Marines, they pretty much seem like they would do that. And it was in San Diego at the time. Like, it still is, Pendleton. So I was gonna drive down and sign up. And like, literally the weekend I was gonna go, my buddy was like, man, we're training over in Orange County. Would you ever wanna do that? I was like, I'll take a look at it. and I remember driving into LA boxing. It's a one story glass building and I could see the ring through the glass and I was like, I am going to work this shitty job to do this as a hobby. I never thought I'd make money doing it but I think those are the best discoveries of like, I will deal with the suck Monday through Friday because on the weekends I'll be a superhero and that's how I approached it and I just took, I took to training like I took to training.

51:53Are you a patriot? Because there seems to be a lot of patriotism in this gym. I am eternally grateful for the inalienable rights. I believe in the words of the Constitution. I think... Well, and I don't need to use this question as like a political what side are you on or anything like that. No, but the cool thing about that is immediately somebody is going to be reactive to my answer. Right. Which is great because then I really have to think about what you're saying. Instead of being like, yeah, yeah, let's move on. I love the idea of the United States of America. Like, love it. I realize how lucky I am in the world, especially to travel and live in other places.

52:46to be born and raised here. It is a wonderful place. Not perfect, but I'll take it. I'm not leaving. I truly do love the respect that's given to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Because if my purpose, if my why is to just live fulfilled, now I'm in a place of imaginary lines on the sand which embraces that. As a matter of fact, that's your right. I think that's super cool. What I admire about people in service is that they have signed a contract to say that if it gets tough, I will make the ultimate sacrifice for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And I'm not sure I have the courage to sign that paper.

53:34And that's why I look at people who have served this country as heroes. Because in that one moment where they sign up, whether they are pushing papers, cooking food, or grabbing a weapon and standing a post. They have all agreed that the idea is larger than their existence. And that is a level of commitment that I admire and that I'm inspired by. And that makes all the moments that I've been able to spend with our servicemen and women, regardless of where it is from Texas to Afghanistan. It's super, super special because I don't even have to know these people, but their uniform is an indicator of the commitment they've made, and that commitment is something that I don't know if I'm courageous enough to do.

54:28But I love this place so much that when I see that uniform and I know that they're a veteran or active service, they're a hero of mine because they are protecting the idea and they are essentially protecting my purpose to live fulfilled they are they are willing to face any adversity for that and that is real special to me so yes yes i am do you remember your first exposure to wwe yeah uh You guys did something in conjunction with MTV to build up WrestleMania 1. And it showed the entire - The Rock and Wrestling Connection. It showed MTV, showed the entire match of Hogan Andre, and Hogan chic MSG where Hogan won the championship.

55:20So I watched that in my next door neighbor, acres away. He had to go through a path in the woods to get to this kid's house. My parents wouldn't let us watch MTV. Okay. And we could always watch MTV at this other kid's house. And in watching MTV, we saw wrestling. Now, I could watch wrestling. I knew my dad was a wrestling buff, and I couldn't differentiate. It was always on. So I didn't know anything. But when MTV made it cool, and so you have to think, like, this is 84. Yeah, WrestleMania was 85. Yeah, so this is the lead-up. Let's say 84. I'm seven to eight years old. And now I'm like, yo, this is the coolest thing ever.

56:07And because wrestling was on MTV, I got to watch MTV. And so did my dad. And it was like a way, it was kind of a way for us to do something cool. And it was so larger than life. And it was so incredible, especially to a young mind of like, man, superheroes are real. Can you believe this is happening? And of course my dad is into it because he always has been. So I have the governing figure in my life going, yeah, this is great. I'm like, oh, this is great. And then enough of a fandom with the four brothers, five of us together, a lot of voices. Sure. This is the best. So then it just became you guys like wrestling.

56:53Well, I watch wrestling all the time. Sit, watch. But it was that specific That was my introduction. The rock and wrestling build to WrestleMania 1 with, I saw the full match in its entirety of Hulk Hogan defeating the Iron Sheik. Wow. Yeah. You? Oh, I mean. That you remember. So there's not a moment where I remember watching or being exposed for the first time but there is a moment my first live event experience. and I was between three and five and I was we went backstage and I remember being surprised at what backstage looked like you know it was so cold like just the actions out there yeah concrete blocks linoleum floors fluorescent lighting it was very unappealing but lining the halls or you know all of these big huge guys and all different looks and everybody wants to talk to my dad.

57:56So we walk in and I'm not sure where Shane was, but my mom goes off to go do something. My dad gets pulled into a conversation. So I'm kind of just standing in the hallway and I walk down the hallway, what seems like an endless hallway. I'm sure it wasn't very long. And all of a sudden this group of kids come screaming down the other side of the hall. I can't see where they're coming from, but they are screaming for their lives and they go running by. And then all of a sudden I see why. And there's George the Animal Steel, who is full on hairy back, green tongue. He had just come out of the ring and he's like doing this whole motion.

58:36And he sees me not knowing who I am, but I'm like a kid in the back and he starts coming for me. And now I scream at the top of my lungs. I run straight for my dad. I run up his leg. I bury my head in his shoulder, like fully expecting my dad, my hero to annihilate this thing that's before me. And he started to laugh. And I remember even being so little thinking like, well, this is something's off, right? Like, why is he laughing? And he proceeded to introduce me to Jim Myers, who is like horrified. He just scared the boss's kid, right? But obviously my dad had such a great reaction. and it didn't matter.

59:22And I learned that he is actually a school teacher. And I didn't believe it necessarily at the time looking at this man, but it was my first kind of inkling into what the business really was and how special it was. And I have just been hooked ever since. I mean, I always was hooked. Two very different first moments. Very, very different. But I was around for the rock and wrestling connection. and I was a huge fan of MTV. That's all I ever watched. Of course. So for me to also see it. We're on the same path. Yeah, yeah. I'm a little older than you are. By like a few months. I'm still older. It's a thing.

1:00:03You know what? I get that. I'm older. That's cool. I get that. Yeah, yeah. I'm okay with it. I'm owning it. I'm okay with it. No, it's fine. You have a little bit more wisdom. I wouldn't say that. I would. I wouldn't say that. But I am older. So being on MTV though. I love how you had to shoehorn that last one in. No, I'm older though. But seriously, whenever we're talking about it, I'm older. No, I mean, I'm older, so I can say it, you know. That's cool. That's fine. But when I was watching MTV. As an older person than me. As an older person than you. It was also very cool, you know, because I loved MTV.

1:00:37But to me, it was like the natural segue. Like, of course MTV would be talking about WWE. And Cyndi Lauper would have Captain Lou and her Girls Just Want to Have Fun video. Like that's, that's who we are. We're great. You got me, right? You got me. This is now cool. I will. So I would like to know. Yeah. What is the most. Either I'll give you some scenarios. What is the most valuable lesson or standout moment that you can remember as a kid with your mom? Okay. A standout moment is that I guess perception is everything. And communication is a very valuable asset. When we were kids, we were bad kids.

1:01:39Bad kids. When we fought, we would fight with chainsaws. Oh, my God. And we would chase each other with kitchen knives. Bad. So there's five of us, and it's like, my brother's 51, I'm 48, 47, 46, 43. So, like, my mom is just pregnant for a lot of times. Yeah, yeah. So by the time five comes out, she's probably just happy to be around. And she kind of gave, I don't want to say gave up, but I think she regressed to the fact that, like, As long as at the end of the night, if I count five, I think we're good. Which is okay. But if she would watch two of us, the other three would grab as many crayons as we could out of the Crayola box and run on the walls.

1:02:29And my dad was working. My mom was just like, and she would stop the person from the crayons. And then somebody grabs a chainsaw to chase your little brother around the house. Why did you have so many chainsaws? We lived in the fucking woods. Trees fall all the time. You need to remove said trees. The same reason we had a snowblower or some shit like that. Like trees fall. Okay. Why do we have knives? I don't know. It's a tool. We live in the fucking woods. Okay. Got it. Got it. We were, I was chained. My brother had done something to me and my house was kind of shaped like you could run around a track.

1:03:06It was like a room, a room, a room, a room. So you could run. and man, I was chasing him. And my mom was on the phone and it was like one of those long phone cords and she's doing the TV bit. She's getting... Wrapped up in it? Oh no. I must have... I think I was like sub 10. Okay. She can only grab one of us. I'm about to get my brother. She grabs me. I turn and just knock the wind out of her. Just wham! Right after my brother again. Dive tackle. We beat the shit out of each other. I'm telling the story. I don't have many memories from that. I remember that as if I'm living the moment right now.

1:03:46And, like, you know, you make weird noises when you get the wind knocked on. Oh, yeah. You can hear my mom making those weird noises. She hangs up the phone, breaks us up. My dad instituted whatever governance he had when we got home that was necessity. The situation worked itself out. for years I carried shame of that moment of like this is the worst thing I've ever done to my mom in years later this is like four years ago where mom and I started leaning into like was I a difficult child uh what were your aspirations before you had kids what was it like being pregnant with five of us did you want to move to Westonbury what's the worst thing I ever did to you and i'm expecting her to retell this story right she says something completely different that i did to her in my late 20s and i'm like i don't even remember that and she goes i don't even remember what you said so it's weird like a takeaway moment for my mom is first of all perception is everything I perceived that to be the worst thing I'd ever done.

1:05:02And then communication is so important because I had the courage to ask my mom, knowing the answer wouldn't be good. She told me something completely different. And she told me she didn't give a fuck about the thing I did, which was great because I got to shed the weight of shame that I had and I got to apologize for something that I thought was meaningless and probably did in a situation where I wasn't exactly myself. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Topps Now. Highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year.

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1:06:28Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. I'm trying to keep you here forever, and I'm doing pretty good. You are. You're doing excellent. I've forced you to pivot on your transportation. Yes. Thanks for doing that. No, of course. Besides this, what's been your most interesting conversation? Besides this, I find that there are themes that are resonating. Okay. And regardless of who it is, there's a consistency in messaging that stands out to me. I will change my question. What are the consistent messages through all these conversations that you find you've experienced?

1:07:16So it's a lot of hard work that a lot of people don't deem themselves the smartest or the most talented, but they're the hardest worker. Always be the hardest worker. The theme of failure being important to success, to learn from your mistakes, fail forward, but don't be afraid of failure. I've found that passion is a big key, although most people can't articulate that, but it's like almost an obsession is how I've heard people describe things. Obsession for the business, obsession for whatever it is. I've interviewed a couple of CEOs as well. Obsession for what they do that drives them. And I think those are some of the key messages that just keep coming out.

1:08:14And pivoting. Pivoting is really important. That keeps coming up in different ways. And it's like you think you're headed in one direction. And you're so focused on it. And you've trained for it. You've done whatever it is. All the legwork, everything. You think this is where you want to go and then for whatever reason it doesn't work out either you wind up going to the bar that night because circumstances are what they are or whatever you're trying to achieve just actually doesn't work and you can't meet that end goal no matter how hard you try yeah so instead of continuing to just butt your head up against the wall where do I look next what can we do what can we do um those are are some of the themes and you've you've talked about a lot of those themes today here as well courage though is one that people haven't talked about that i think is important to name because having the courage to take risks having the courage to pivot having the courage to not be complacent you know that's is that believing in yourself is that throwing caution to the wind is that something grander i don't know but having the courage to put yourself out there having the courage to be vulnerable having the courage to be you i think those are some of the most valuable takeaways and consistent could also be having the courage to not take the risk uh it's kind of like i stated earlier i guess that's like i always will sink the titanic is a phrase that i use in the circle of like i'd like to try this new thing.

1:09:56This is my perspective on it. Okay, sink the Titanic. Give me the absolute worst that can happen. Well, the absolute worst that can happen is the phone never rings again. Would I run right? Yes. Would I run right with my partner? Yes. Thoughts? Maybe we should try it. The worst that can happen isn't so bad. Or is it? Sometimes the worst that can happen, if I continue at a full-time physical capability or involvement, I'm not going to run right. My partner's not going to run right, and our relationship isn't going to run right. Sorry, kid. It's time to close this chapter because that's a risk I'm not willing to take.

1:10:38So also the courage to say no to something I really love and would love to do to infinity. I wish I was 18. I wish I felt great because I don't feel more at home, besides in the arms of my wife, than I do on a canvas. I just feel at home. Like, and it's not just me and the performer I'm working with, it's the audience. As soon as you get me out to where the lights are on, I'd like to think it's just like ones and zeros. And it's just like, man, okay, right on. I'll do this they'll say that they didn't well that's surprising but I'll just do this and maybe we'll get them back I would love to do it into infinity but that's the courage to say no so a lot of times the courage is the leap and I think we can justify or something that helps me is sink the Titanic tell me what I'm going to leverage are you willing to lose this no then don't take the risk have you always been so analytical in your approach to things i maybe again like i don't know what answer 2006 me would give you or teenage me would give you but like i guess i've always known that like this is probably going to be a good risk go for it from going to boarding school i lived in school at 15 like making that choice of leaving west newbury where like nobody leaves.

1:12:15But that gave me such a jumpstart on college, which gave me social fluency and diversity that I desperately needed along with male mentorship, a different level of team sport participating which pretty much paid for my college education, like a ton of domino effects from that one risk. And it wasn't all wins. Like I had to wash dishes in the dining hall when other kids are in suits, nice formal dinners and like, but I don't know. I don't know. I just know that I've always been okay like yeah just go for this see what happens talk more about passion and obsession this is a topic that has like been really something that I like to lean into obsession comes up a lot how do you feel about that so I was at a marketing conference once and whichever company it was they were talking about being obsessed with your customers Yeah.

1:13:12And I loved the notion of it. I was like, oh, that is exactly how you should be. You should obsess over your customers, in our case, our fans. Like, what do they want? How can we give them what they want at an affordable price? How can we give them an experience that they'll remember for the rest of their lives? How can we keep them a fan forever and make them want to make their families fans? How can we, you know, trying to think of all of those different things of being obsessed with your fan or your customer. And I think, I don't know how I necessarily feel about, I guess it depends on are you obsessed to a fault?

1:13:52Like if I were so obsessed with even just WWE, so take the whole company, right? I would argue my dad obsessed, much more so than obsessed. The company is him. that's all he could focus on and think about right is the company do you have trade-offs there you know that um can impact and affect other people maybe you don't care about that maybe your obsession is just your obsession so i think it's different for the person right the person who's obsessed is doing well usually because you are obsessed with it. You're never going to let it go. You're never going to let it die. You're always going to try things.

1:14:40You're always going to be driving for it unless you're a terrible business person, which could happen. But I think if you're very obsessed about something, whatever it is you're trying to do, seemingly, at least in the people I've spoken to thus far, it will be successful. I do think there's trade-offs. but but again the trade-offs might not matter to that person who is so obsessed so I don't I don't know is the answer I think if you I think obsession to a degree maybe is the best way to answer it if you really want to make something happen but I don't think you ever want it to compromise your character or your integrity or your values and as long as you're not doing that it could be healthy it could be a healthy obsession um but i think there's a lot of unhealthy obsessions too so i i don't think you can define it in you know one way like everything else there's multiple sides to it what do you what do you think i i hear that i but passion sorry i'm jumping in yeah critical.

1:15:49I think passion is critical to being successful in life. And that's just me, right? I believe very much in passion. Like I've said, I love to love and I love being passionate about what we do. I'm passionate about my family. I'm passionate about the people that I love and I care about. I think passion is something that is underrated. So I think passion is critical. Obsession can go either way. Yeah. Just my thoughts. I think that's well said. But I think obsession is the point where passion becomes flawed.

1:16:37And you do kind of, but then again, like I was head over heels obsessed with the business. And it brought me tremendous opportunity. But in my wake, I wasn't really a good person. I wasn't really adding to the relationships that were supposed to be important in my life. Because I was so tunnel visioned on doing this one thing. I think obsession is the point where passion becomes flawed. That's interesting. And I think having passion for something, you can still be successful. I think it keeps you accountable for your minutes and responsible. And you have to define, like, this is the most important thing in my life.

1:17:28So I'm going to put all my time nuggets toward this. I'm going to continually ask whoever is in my life to kind of bend around what I'm doing. Because I'm really passionate about this. I got one shot at it. I'd like to give it my best go. Let's hear from everybody. What does everybody think? I think obsession becomes the point where if I'm obsessed with that battery on the floor, I'm not going to look at anything but that. Regardless of what happens around me, I'm not going to take my eyes off it. It's going to be the focus of everything that I do as soon as I wake up, for the second I go to sleep.

1:18:00But it's not going to run out because you're going to make sure it's drained. You're going to make sure it's plugged in. You're going to make sure it's because you're obsessed about it. Or let's say I'm obsessing about it because it's debris on the floor. Okay. I could become obsessed about keeping this place clean, and I could become so involved in that obsession that my life outside of that obsession erodes. This place could be immaculate, but my life outside could be catastrophic because I'm obsessed with the condition of this place. You know what I mean? I do. So I think that's kind of where I settle on that.

1:18:38I think obsession is the point where passion becomes flawed. Very interesting. You mentioned the word trade-off. I think it is a trade-off, and it is the thing you are obsessed with. Everything else falls in the wake. It owns you. Like, yes, and you can achieve an incredible sense of fluency and mastery at the cost of everything else. Everything else. And then it goes from there, I guess. But yeah, I think it's, at least from my own personal experiences, the things that I've been obsessed with have faltered my behavior and other things that are important to me in life. So there's no such thing as a healthy obsession?

1:19:28In my mind, no. Because I would look at that as like when people say, oh, this is my cheat day. Like, this is a day I don't have to be accountable is what I hear when someone's like a cheat day. you should just say this is the day i'm going to make poor decisions with my nutrition i'm serious yeah like they're a little little it's perception is reality i don't ever use the word deserve i just don't use it i like to use the word earn yeah because it makes you accountable like oh man treat yourself to that you deserve it treat yourself to that because you earned it did I really? Yes. Cool. Let's do it.

1:20:10And one of the reactions from the WWE Universe that twists a dagger in my heart every time they say it is you deserve it. You deserve it. Yeah. I use that. This is the only spoiler I'll give because that tramples on my value. We deserve nothing. We should be grateful to wake up every day and what we earn is what we can be satisfied with, I guess. So just little fail-safes like that of healthy obsession or cheat day or I deserve. Anything that blurs into the gray and gives you an excuse to behave a certain way that allows you not to walk the talk. Do you ever not walk the talk? All the time. And that's why I have good people around me to keep me accountable.

1:21:03all the time. Like it's, it's tough. It's, it's damn, it's damn near impossible, but you just want to set a set, set yourself a bunch of goals and hopefully an outline on how to live and just have, when you're putting the ground, have more good days than bad. And a failure starts at a 59. D minus is a 60. So if I can live a below average life, but not a fail at a 60, I'm cool. Like that's more wins than losses. It is just passing as virtuous by my definition of what I have. Right. By your own rules. And then you can strive for, I don't want to be a D minus student. I'd like to be an average student.

1:21:48I'd like to be above average. But again, it's your grading system of yourself. Sure. Right? It's not anyone else's opinion. We also all know what we want people to believe we are and who we really are. and if at the end of the day you talk some shit that you're some person but you're really another person you know you know when that that last page shuts what's up but only you know that's all that matters right no one's gonna remember any of this shit anyway i'm serious that's like that but that's the thing you have to stay accountable to yourself it's not being accountable to anyone else in your life it's being accountable to you and the values that you think are important and that you want to live by that shit is tough to do yeah and but and some people don't have them at all and they're very fine but that's the in in itself um absence of traditional virtuous values is value some people don't even think about some people don't think of the concept of i gotta be cool with myself or like man I was I have four so I'm not going to put them on blast I was talking to my brother going through a rough patch having coffee I love to lean in for conversations like this with coffee he just half empty guy thinks the world is against him and I start talking to him like you really think this whole place is spending all this time here I don't know man I just want to be happy okay what's happy?

1:23:19What do you mean? What's happy for you? What's that? What does a win look like? Right. I never thought about that. Okay. You don't have to be half full. You don't have to be an optimist. Here's what I believe. If you don't know what the fuck happy is, how can you even take one step towards happy. Happy is financial security. Okay. What are you doing to move in that direction? Nothing. Good luck. You don't want to be happy from what I'm hearing. Happiness is health and mobility. I want to drop 10 pounds. What are you doing? Nothing. Do you really want to do that? I tell my wife this all the time and my friends too.

1:24:08I always say I want to be a better brother because it sounds nice. I don't because I do nothing to be a better brother. Nothing. It sounds nice. I got four brothers. You close to them? Man, I don't want to try to be better than that. I don't because right now that's not the driving force of importance to me. I want to be the best husband for my bride. I want to keep love and connection in my life. And I want to make anybody who places a bet on me, I want to make sure they feel good about it, win, lose, or draw. Those are like the things that I give a shit about. But that's an example of me not walking the talk.

1:24:48I say every year, man, I'm going to be a better brother this year. And I fail every year because it's a nice thing to say. But I don't mean it. I don't put any muscle behind it. And one of these years, I might. I don't know. I wanted to mend my relationship with my dad. I fucking went to work on that. And we're doing good. Yeah. I wanted to have a better relationship with my mom. I went to work on that. We're doing great. Like, the brother example is a great example of me not walking the talk. But I couldn't believe it when my brother was like, I don't know what happy is. Yeah. Yo, I just want to play video games all day.

1:25:27Fine. I don't care. But you can make a great living doing that. That's true. For real. Yeah. Great times we live in. You know, they even have like physical trainers. They got stadiums. Yeah. But for like reaction time. Of course they do. Because it's a sport. Yeah. So, but what are you doing to do that? Right. When I found a ring, I literally told myself I will clean toilets to do this on the weekends. Not like this is my golden ticket where I'm going to make it. fuck all that noise i want to dress up in a costume and have a weird haircut on saturday night at an outdoor barbecue in northern california and to do that i'm gonna clean the toilets at gold's gym venice like all right take steps towards your happiness right you have to work for it yeah and you have to earn it or at least fucking identify it at least know what it is definitely yeah that's you got to know what you want you hit that moment through a series of tough times of like, husband, kids.

1:26:32That's it. That's what makes me happy. Now you can make decisions to make yourself happy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. But so many people out there don't even approach the concept of happiness. And on the other side of the coin, when we talked about obsession, you find that one thing that makes you so happy, everything else doesn't matter. You just want to fucking do that one thing that makes you happy. But at least you've identified what happiness is. And sometimes people who are obsessed just do the thing because they're good at it and they're not even really happy. Yeah. Because they never ask themselves, like, what is happening?

1:27:04I don't know what makes me happy. And then the ability to pivot. Right? I thought this was going to make me happy. What makes me happy now? Man, the younger me would have been so mad. Yes, exactly. And that's also okay because we get in a lot of loops of, like, you spoke about it earlier. I'm defined as this. I'm judged as this. I'm judged as Vince McMahon's daughter. I'm judged as this because of my presence in the business. This is what defines me. You are a whole hell of a lot more than that. We all are. Whatever anybody thinks about any of this is just what they think about it. Yep, and you can't control what they think.

1:27:40That's a really tough gray hair to dance in in wrestling because WWE fans think you're you, hell or high water. And they do know me, but they don't know all of me. Sure. And that's okay. That's okay. You know what I'm saying? I've been in their living room for every Monday night for 25 years. We have a relationship. I've seen generations of folks. I can imagine you have too. But when grown men come up to me, like Hillbilly Jim Beard over there going like, yo, man, I grew up watching you. I'm like, you can't. You're a grown-ass man. You're older than I am. With a full beard. How does this happen?

1:28:20It's because I'm 30 and I found you when I was nine and you helped me through this. And like, oh, the math checks out. I'm old. Not as old as you. No, because I'm older than you. We've established that. But there are some people who are significantly older who still say that I watched you when I was a kid. And I'm looking at these people sometimes like, you are 20 years older than I am. But they feel that way. They look. They look 20 years old. Some people live fast. They are. Some people live for this.

1:28:54A fun hill to climb is when, like, a 14-year-old comes up and is like, man, I used to watch you when I was a kid. I'm like, you are a kid. You are a kid. You have so many mistakes to make. My God, you don't even know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Find out what makes you happy. You ask for words of, like, you want to encourage people. Identify what makes you happy. I think is huge. It's a great, great point. Realize you're enough, period. Move on from there. And, like, if you lack happiness in your life and you want to be happy, identify what that is. I'm working my ass off and I don't get any sleep.

1:29:37Sleep's gonna make you happy. Get sleep. Find a way. Like, take small steps. I'm not asking you to quit your job and sleep 12 hours a day, but if you track your sleep. I slept three hours last night. Can you move it to three and a half? unless you become obsessed which is what happened to me and i had the ring and i'd constantly wake up and see how i slept see that's it and i was like i never slept well exercise of like me looking at the battery on the floor all you did was look at the ring and all i did like how'd i sleep it didn't matter how i felt i track all those stats i have i have calories body weight caffeine water and sleep for like the past 10 years of my life i only look at them when i feel bad I just put the numbers in, set it and forget it, and then when, like, something's off, like, ah, indicators.

1:30:26Oh, dude, you're not sleeping. Or, like, everything's right and I still feel junky. I'll even go, like, all right, blood work. What do the smart people say? That's still, and I still feel junky? Hmm. I don't know. I'll figure it out. But, like, I, it's just a, it's like a bumper guard in a bowling alley so I don't get in the gutter. You know? Those are fantastic. I need those. Me too. I'm not a good bowler. Not a good bowler. Me neither. And I hurt my wrists every time. It's the worst, especially with these things. Try to, like, the bowling balls they have, I have to use the heaviest one. Yeah, yeah.

1:31:02And everybody's like, oh, you're using that big... I can't even... My hands barely fit. My wrist, I got this little calcium deposit I can't even... Yeah, can't even flex. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we're both bad bowlers. We will not go bowling together. Stephanie, I've enjoyed this. As have I. I have to show you around. Okay. Because I want to have respect for your time. I've heard you're a very busy person. You're making assumptions now. And I could do this all day. No, I'm not. I'm based on the people mean mugging me from over there. She's going, get the fuck out of here. We got to go. We got to go.

1:31:39You mean everyone was like this? Thank you for making this easy for me. Thank you for coming to a place that's very important in my life. we'll take a quick look-see, but regardless of what hangs on the walls or lies on the floor, this has been a place of mental stability and growth for me over the past 20 years. And this conversation is absolutely what this place is about. This is a safe place for us to just jam and solve problems, and maybe hopefully when you leave here today, your backpack is a little bit lighter. John, thank you. I mean, we can go out right on what you said, but just between us and everyone here.

1:32:24Thank you. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself and how you think and, you know, getting to spend a little bit of time with the real you. You've spent a lot of time with the real you. I know, but not, like, sitting down really having long conversations. You could have done this years ago. You would have helped me with so many mistakes. See? God damn it. Well, I was in the process of making my own and many more mistakes to be made. Yeah, to the mistakes to come. Yeah, that's a good one. Yes, indeed. To the mistakes to come. Now that I have you, and I don't know when I'm going to get your attention again besides your podcast in January, you've been very important and instrumental in my life.

1:33:02And I meant what I said. In the moments that I needed you there, without you even knowing, you were a guiding light that was unbelievably effective. and I know that's not over, so thanks for that. I'm always here. I know. I know. All right, we hug it out. Yep. Oh, you know what's gonna tease you about the mic? And I was like looking at it, hoping you didn't hear it, and then I did.

1:33:32Thank you.

1:33:42Thank you.