Michael Cole

21:35Steph McMahon:Well, I think you're a different person than JR, right? But your passion for sure shines through, don't you guys think? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think you've nailed that part, you know, and I think for all of us, no matter what the role is, we have to be worthy of their passion. You know, it's their passion and it's a feel business. I had to learn that. Yeah. I really did. I was a fan, right? Well, we all have to learn it. But I had to learn how important that was for them to feel that out of me. When I started here for many years, you know, it was always your Jim Ross's replacement. Jim Ross's replacement.

22:13Jim Ross's replacement. I heard it ad nauseum. And those are massive, massive shoes to fill. And by the way, shout out to JR because I know he's going through some health issues. Yes.

22:22Steph McMahon:Shout out to you, JR. I wish JR the best in his surgery and everything else. But listen, it was a really, they were tough shoes to fill. Because JR was a lifer in this business. He started out as a teenager. I came into this at 30 years old. I didn't know what I was getting into, and they were pretty mighty shoes to fill. And for many years, I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do that. Vince believed in me. Kevin Dunn believed in me. I'm not sure I believed in myself until one day the light bulb went on, and I said, I think I may belong here. It was a struggle for a decade, Steph, of trying to figure out what my voice was and how that voice was different from Jim Ross's.

23:10and early on in my career you go back and hear some stuff it's all over youtube but it's embarrassing but um you'll hear me screaming stopping a mud hole in him the size of texas you know doing the stuff that jr would say and i'm saying to myself god this is embarrassing like this isn't like what what can i do to differentiate we've all embarrassed ourselves well yeah well you gotta be willing many times in the years here getting slapped by her was one getting a wedgie by her husband was another. But no, and so it took me a long time to really find my voice.

23:44Steph McMahon:That's how you really found it. I slapped the shit out of you. You did. I had ringing in my ears for days. That was in England. I'll never forget that. It was in England. You said, you mind if I slap you? I said, how hard can it be? Actually, it was a really hard slap. It looked like Swagger getting knocked out in that slap fest. Power slap? I missed it. But But so what you're talking about now, you're on the other end. Well, let me also just go back for one second. It was so funny to me. When you had come in, there was a lot of, you know, pressure. Everybody was like, is this guy really going to make it?

24:22Steph McMahon:And then JR came in with, like, and brought his own little announce table. Like, he came back as a commentator with his own, like, set and everything. It was so funny to me. It was the worst storyline ever attempted in this company. trying to turn Jim Ross heel. Oh, yeah, it just wasn't going to work. Especially with this little 30-year-old, 150-pound punk with a mullet and a cheesy mustache and wearing skinny jeans with frosted tips in my hair. And they really thought they were going to make Jim Ross a heel. Hey, Jim tried to buy into it. I tried to buy into it. He kicked me in the down low, which he really hit me that night.

25:00And that started this whole scene.

25:02Steph McMahon:That was way worse than my slap. Yes. Come on. No, it wasn't worse than a slap. But that started this whole mini storyline that would lead up to J.R. returning at WrestleMania. J.R. ended up getting sick at the time. He had Bell's palsy and so on and so forth. And I was thrown into this situation where I'm calling Monday Night Raw now in 1998 with about six months of experience under my belt. What the hell am I doing here? There were so many times that I thought I was going to leave the company because I didn't think I was going to be able to pull it off. The trial by fire, right? That's what it was.

25:33Steph McMahon:trial by fire, persistence, learning, you know, not giving up, right? It's okay to make mistakes and be embarrassed. I mean, these are all so many common themes that we hear from such successful people across all walks of life. And Michael, what about, so now the advice that you do give to new commentators and new interviewers coming in, because you take so much pride and care in bringing them in the right way? Like, what is that to you? What does that mean? And what's some of the advice that you give them? So the one thing I always tell any announcer that comes in, and it doesn't matter if it's an established announcer like a Joe Tessitore, who's done so much over the past few decades in sports broadcasting.

26:19Steph McMahon:My co-host last night, Saturday night's main event, just saying that. Go ahead. Sorry. You guys. Yeah. You guys were great. Oh, what? You and Joe. It was fun. Yeah, exactly. No, he's so amazing. He really is. But I'm sorry. Go ahead. Joe is great. And listen, he'll be the first to tell you he's struggling at this as well, because it takes many, many years, no matter how much of an established broadcaster you are to do this. But what I tell everybody when they first come in here is there's one thing you have to understand as a commentator. It is not about us. It is in no way about us. It is about the boys and the girls in the ring.

26:55It is about those who are putting their bodies on the line each and every day to entertain you guys and it's our job to enhance and to tell stories and to narrate. Now, sometimes it happened in my career. We get caught up a number of times in storylines. Well, you're very opinionated. Yeah.

27:12Steph McMahon:I'm just saying, you know, when I was out there, I was very annoyed by you many times. Many times, right? But that's the first thing I tell everyone. It's not about you. It's about taking care of our talent. And if you do that correctly, you will become a star in your own right over time because people will understand that and they will see you do it. That's the first thing. The second thing I tell everyone is don't force this. Don't try to come across as you're this historian or you're this massive wrestling fan because even if you are, it's going to sound forced. Everything you do has to become natural.

27:49I think one of the people that does this great is Jackie Redman.

27:54Steph McMahon:I love Jackie Redman. Jackie is the most conversational person who came to this world, obviously, from a sports background. She did a little bit of wrestling stuff in Canada. She still works with the NHL as well. Yeah, NHL, NHL, yep. But Jackie has this knack of, much like you guys do, of being able to make the people she's interviewing comfortable and to make it sound conversational. It never sounds robotic. It never sounds scripted. It never sounds rehearsed. It sounds like they're trying to have a conversation. And that's what Jackie does so well. And I always tell young interviewers that come in to look at Jackie and look what she does and how she does this.

28:29And you'll get an idea of what we're looking for here. You know, that's a...

28:34Steph McMahon:Wow, shout out to Jackie. I know, right? Big time. And what is the art of storytelling from your perspective? Because what we do requires this audio track, right? You really do need the narration. what is the key to being a successful storyteller? Because I think in all walks of life, no matter what your job is, no matter how you're interacting with people, storytelling is the best way to communicate because people feel it. But what are your tricks? What are the keys, the fundamentals to storytelling from your perspective? So basically, the biggest thing that we have to do is understand that our audience, especially today with Netflix and ESPN and new ways to see our content, is to make sure that, A, we don't offend the long-time fans who understand who our audience is.

29:29They understand who our superstars are. They understand the background. I guarantee you everybody sitting out there right now probably knows more about the history of what's happened in the last 25 years than I do because you guys are so close to it, right? And listen, one match runs into another for me. I can't even remember what happened last night at this point. But it's to remind us that we have the hardcore fans that are passionate about our product, that know all the ins and outs. But we also have to balance that with new audience members, people that might be tuning into ESPN for the first time and don't know who Seth Rollins is or don't know who Becky Lynch is or don't understand the history of a Triple H or don't understand the history of a John Cena.

30:10So we need to be able to balance that where we're explaining to the new audience who these characters are, but we're not insulting our longtime fans. So that's a trick. And one of the ways to do that is to be able to take a story that may be going on for a few months and be able to explain it to the audience in two or three sentences. Where you're not boring the longtime fans, but you're getting everyone up to date who may be turning into the product for the first time.

30:38Steph McMahon:And what is the most important thing in those two to three minutes? Why are we having the match that you see in the ring? The why. The why is the most important. You know, these guys might have, you know, taken on each other six times in the past six weeks. But why is tonight's match more important than those other six matches are? That's great advice. The why. That's the most important. And it's also the development of our characters. You know, who is Seth Rollins? Why should I care about Seth? You know, Seth, is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? It's the same with Roman Reigns. They're tweeners, right?

31:11Some of you guys love Roman. Some of you guys hate him. It's the same with Seth Rollins. So what is it about their characters that people will want people to invest their time in them? Why should they care? Excuse me? Why should they care? Why should they care? Exactly. You know, I always say that 5 % of the stars in the history of our business have gotten over on their own. The Rocks, the Stone Cold Steve Austens, John Cena, very few have done it on their own. The majority of them have needed the support of us at the desk to be able to tell their stories, to be able to explain to people who they are, especially with so much young talent.

31:57Sol Ruka, who's our intercontinental champion. Why should you care about Sol? What is it about her? What's it about her background that makes her interesting to us?

32:08Steph McMahon:Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Topps Now, highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Tops Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial numbered parallels, some Topps Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match.

32:59Steph McMahon:So which moments will you collect? With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Topps Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. So let me interject here for a second, Michael, because how much of a role does real life and your personal real life experience matter to what you bring to the table? and answer this however you would like to, whatever you feel comfortable talking about. But in your own family, you've had some health issues.

33:47Steph McMahon:If you're comfortable talking about what those are, how they impacted you, but if not, how did you move forward? And how do you think those real-life experiences help you grow as a person and then help bring perspective to the stories and the characters that you're trying to share with the world? So just a little bit of background, and I touched on this earlier. I met my wife in 1991 in Houston, and she had two young children at the time from a previous marriage. It was an abusive relationship. And, you know, I came around at the time where she needed someone. And, you know, I was traveling a lot for news, CBS and, you know, I had a ready-made family.

34:39I was 20, 26, 25 years old at the time. I was a kid. Yeah. And now I've got two kids that I'm about to be responsible for, a wife who was struggling to make ends meet. And, you know, I'm trying to figure out, do I really want to do this? And so when I got transferred to New York, my dad gave me some advice. He goes, listen, do you love this woman? And I said, with all my heart, do you love those kids? I said, yes, they become mine. He goes, then you better put a ring on her finger before you go to New York. So I asked her to marry me and she accepted. Probably regrets it to this day, but whatever.

35:14And we moved to New York. We end up, again, nothing was ever easy for us. I get transferred to New York three months before our wedding in Houston. So me and my oldest son move and we live over in Montclair, New Jersey for three months so I can start my new job. Meanwhile, while my wife and our youngest son are back in Houston trying to get a wedding planned, in which we fly back down for for two days. They fly back with my parents to New York. We have a U-Haul pulling a Dodge Neon behind us, trying to get back to New Jersey where we're going to live. We stop at a rest area. Now, my wife doesn't want to leave Texas as it is.

35:49That's why we're back there today, by the way. We stop at a rest area in Virginia, go to the bathroom, start walking back up the hill, and my wife bursts out in tears. I'm like, honey, it's going to be okay. No, it's not. This is an omen. We look up on the top of the hill. A semi had pulled over our Dodge Neon because it didn't see it, which was on the back of our U-Haul, and completely crushed the neon with all of my wife's wedding gifts, wedding presents, and everything inside. So that was our start of our move to New York.

36:19Steph McMahon:Oh, not a good start. Two months later, we have the blizzard of 95, where we get dumped on with about 36 inches of snow. My wife has never seen snow before. Now she, okay, we got to get the hell out of here. This is an omen. I don't want to do this anymore. No, but we ended up staying. The business began. And again, trying to learn this business, as you're well aware, is a full-time gig. You know, you're in the studio all the time. You're in the office. You're on the road. I got a call from my wife. I was in Stanford doing some studio work. He said, you got to come home. I'm like, okay, this can't be good.

36:59She goes, I want to discuss it when you get home. I get home. She tells me we have a meeting with a urologist tomorrow. My kidney numbers aren't good. So, and she at the time was, you know, 30 years old, 31 years old, whatever it was. And we meet with the urologist the next day. And the urologist tells her that she's got 5 % function left in her kidney. 5%. 5%. And, you know, we knew something that was wrong for a little bit because, you know, we were young, late 20s, early 30s. We'd go out and have some beers or whatever at night. And she would literally, after one beer, get really, really sick.

37:37And we couldn't figure out why. Well, come to find out, it was because the kidney wasn't filtering the alcohol out of her system. So she immediately had to go on dialysis. And my wife is, you know, 4 '11". At this point, she weighed about 95 pounds. and the dialysis almost killed her. It was three days a week. Obviously, I'm in a new job where I need to travel. So I'm on the road. I've got a son at the time who's 15 years old who doesn't even have a driver's license who's literally driving her to dialysis so she can get there. The guilt inside of me was insane. I kept wanting to leave this company because of that.

38:19And she wouldn't let me do it. She said, you know, we got to support these kids. We have to support this family. And I tested. My kids all tested. None of us were exactly compatible to hit the 10 markers that you need for a transplant. And we were trying to figure out what do we do. We got put on the organ donor list, and that's a five - or six-year wait. And, you know, my wife was literally, you know, withering away. You know, you can see it in front of you. My kids are eating up over it. The kids are trying to enjoy high school at the time, you know, and they're trying to live their life and they're not able to do that.

38:56It was a really, really tough time. And then just out of the blue, her sister's husband, Jerry, who was in the military, said, hey, what blood type do you have? And my wife told him it was the rarest of types. And he said, well, I'm the same type because I had it tested in the military. So he decided he would come up and get tested over at St. Barnabas in New Jersey to see if he was a match. So we were actually at my parents' place in Myrtle Beach at the time. I was on the golf course with my dad. And my cell phone rang. And it was my wife. And she said, Jerry is a match. I'm going to get a kidney.

39:39And it was like, I mean, it was like the most amazing, amazing thing that's ever happened to me. I started screaming and yelling, throw clubs up and down. My dad's like, what the hell are you doing? You know what I mean? That shot went 50 yards. I said, no, no, you don't understand what's going on here. So we, you know, he got okayed for the transplant. Fast forward now, the transplant was supposed to be done on September 12th of 2001.

40:10so we fly Jerry up he gets there like on September 9th or 10th I'm on the road on the 11th I'm going to be back in time on the 12th to be back in time and all of a sudden the tragedy hits and everyone was so caught up in what was going on here in New York that we all forgot for a number of hours what was supposed to be happening the next day which was my wife's transplant.

40:39Steph McMahon:And the transplant was supposed to take place in New York. Yes, and it never happened because the hospitals were so tied up with what was going on. The transplant was put off until October 1st, and she successfully had it at the time.

40:57She had a pinched nerve in her neck when she was going into the surgery, so they had to give her some pain medicine. And I don't do well with needles. I'm just not a needle guy. I don't know how many of you guys can understand that, but I am not a needle guy. I'm standing next to my wife as they're about to put this injection in her so she can go get her transplant. And they pull out a needle this big. And they shove it here, and I swear to God, I wake up on the floor.

41:24Steph McMahon:Oh, no. So my wife is like in la-la land from the medicine. I'm embarrassed. The doctor's like, you've got to make it about yourself. Is it about you today? Meanwhile, they got a kidney on ice that they're waiting to put into her. They're trying to deal with me. Anyway, she gets in. She gets the transplant done. And now it'll be 26 years. You know, it'll be 25 years this October 1st that she's had a kidney and she's still going strong. Oh, yes. Yep. But I do want to say one thing about this woman. Two days after the transplant, I don't know if you remember this, but two days after the transplant we're sitting in a St.

42:04Barnabas playing Scrabble and we get a card from her that is a a spa day for my wife when she finally gets out of the hospital so I've never ever forgotten that I got a really nice note from your brother I got a really nice note from your brother I got a great note from your dad and that to me that whole that whole thing there of what we went through, and I don't want to sound corny, but I mean this from the bottom of my heart, that was when I knew that this was the company that I was going to be in for the rest of my life. That was when I knew that they cared about the people who worked for them.

42:47And to me, that made all of this worth it. And it made me want to work my ass off for the next 20-odd years to become one of the best to ever do this. And hopefully in some sort of way, listen, I'm not the best ever. I understand that. But the one thing I will say I'm better than anybody that's ever sat in that chair is my work ethic. You will never take that away from me. I've missed four shows in 26 years. Wow. 29 years now. 29 years now. So that's the one thing. And a lot of that was because of the McMahon family And because of the work ethic that they taught me over the years of putting this place in front of everything, because this place has given me everything.

43:34It allowed me to get a, because of health insurance, to be able to get a kidney transplant for my wife. It allowed me to put two kids through college. It set me up for retirement so I can enjoy my last few years in the company and not have to worry about making ends meet. And it's because of the McMahon family that I'm here today.

43:53Steph McMahon:It is not. But thank you, Michael. I mean, this is, you are the one who has made all of this happen. And it is your work ethic. And it is everything that you bring to the table. And thank you for saying such kind things. But this is all about you. And it's why we wanted to interview you today. And I'm curious, and I'm going to segue. How does this work ethic and this maybe newfound approach on life lead you to rock climbing of all things and mountain climbing. And what is the biggest mountain you've climbed aside from WWE figuratively, but literally, you know, that's a pretty crazy thing to get into.

44:32So I never thought I'd do it. JBL at the time was really into climbing mountains. He was trying to do the seven summits of the world. And he got myself and our audio guy, Mark Lancio, we call him Frenchy. he got us into climbing. Shout out to Frenchy.

44:50Steph McMahon:Sorry, also. And the first time we did it, we did Middle Palisades in Eastern California, in the Sierra Nevadas. And we didn't summit. We got close, but we didn't summit. But I was hooked. And I said, this is something that I want to do. I want to train for this. I want to be able to do this the right way. We did Grand Teton the first time around, which is almost 14 ,000 feet in Wyoming. Got to just about 80 feet from the summit and got snowed off. Couldn't do it because of ice. That was disappointing. Wait, but now, okay. So I know not very much about rock climbing, except I've climbed the walls at various activity centers with my kids.

45:30Steph McMahon:Yes. So are you like, what's your gear like? What's the safety mechanism? What's the backup? Are you, you know, I don't even know the terminology to ask. That'll come into play in one of my stories because in Grand Teton, Grand Teton is a very technical mountain, but the first 12 ,000 feet or so, it's pretty much a hike. So it's altitude you've got to deal with. And you're dealing with rock and stuff like that, but it's pretty much a hike. You get to your base camp where you stay the night. The next day, pretty much the last 150, 200 feet to the summit is you're scaling a wall. And it's not an expert, like an average climber can do it.

46:10But you've got to be very, very careful with it. And you've got a guide and you're roped in. And we're all roped in through our belts to our guide who's leading the way. This way, if you slip off the mountain, you have some protection. And slip off the mountain. I know. I'm like that. It gets better. This is a true story. You can actually see these photos somewhere online. We summited Grand Teton the second time around. And we got up to the top, 13 ,950 feet. and I was able to FaceTime my wife from up there, which was a pretty cool thing. That's cool. Yeah, it was pretty cool. And that was a huge accomplishment for us because it's something we've been working for for a couple of years.

46:50And we were really excited. And the guide warned us, listen, the hardest part of this is getting off the mountain. Everybody thinks it's over when you're at the top. Now you've got to get back down. That's easy compared to what's coming. Coming down the mountain is one of the most difficult things to do because your adrenaline has pretty much peaked because you've summited.

47:08Steph McMahon:Right, you achieved the... You've got to be really careful because you think it's all over now and it's all downhill. Well, it's downhill all right. So we were coming off the mountain and we had to rappel about 85 feet off a cliff down to the next landing area. And so I went first and I rappelled off. And we've been trained for this, so it wasn't like we didn't know what we were doing. I went off first, came down the mountain, landed. And I was having trouble getting the rope unclipped from my harness so I could send it up to the guys so Frenchie could come down next. and I just couldn't, it was tight, I couldn't get it out.

47:43It took me a good 30 or 45 seconds. I finally yanked and when I did, my boots slipped on this rock that was covered with ice and as I slipped, all I remember was tumbling head over heels for about 55 to 60 feet and legitimately stopping from here to where they're standing from going off a 2 ,000 foot drop. And I had a helmet on, thank God, because it protected me from any concussion. but I thought I broke my ankle. And I was sitting there like dazed, obviously, probably in shock that I almost killed myself thinking about what the hell my wife would say if she knew this story. And I'm sitting there and I think I have a broken ankle and Frenchie comes down next and he goes, holy shit, are you okay?

48:29I said, I think I got a broken ankle. He goes, okay, relax. Our guide comes down next, does what a guide is supposed to do, doesn't panic, rolls his rope up because he knows we're going to need it again, and comes over to me and looks at the ankle and goes, I don't know if it's broken, I don't know if it's severely sprained, but you've got two options. We call a helicopter. That's$15 ,000. But he won't be able to get here for two days because of the wind, or you walk off this mountain.

48:57Steph McMahon:It's not much of an option. I'm going to try to walk off this mountain. And we got up and we started walking. And there was one point we had to get to base camp so they could tape my ankle. That's what I was going to say. Did you? We didn't have anything with us. So I'm literally dragging my foot across. Now there's this one part of the mouth. But you can't like see your bone through your skin. It's not a compound fracture. Oh, there's no bone point now. Okay. It ended up not being broken. It was a severe sprain. Okay. But we didn't know at the time. Sure. And it hurt like it was broken. We're coming across the face of this wall.

49:29And it's literally probably from that light to that light that you've got to come across this face of a wall in order to get down to the next level. And it's really dangerous. So Frenchy's in front of me. I'm next. And our guide is up there. And he's got the ropes tied around this huge rock for leverage. Now he's trying to hold me, who's probably weighing 200 pounds at the time. Frenchy's probably 200 pounds. He's got 400 pound of weight that he's trying to hold as we're climbing across this mountain.

49:56Steph McMahon:You got to talk in the microphone, Michael. What? You got to talk into the microphone. I'm sorry. I'm getting real excited about this. We need to know if you make it. But anyway, so we're coming across this mountain, and the problem with this is if I slip, and I have no use of my left ankle, if I slip, I go down, Frenchy comes down, he comes down. Right. And so this was probably the most intense, ended up being 15 or 20 minutes of my life. Scaling across this mountain, trying to hook your hands in these little holes, trying to feel with your good foot, your other one dangling, to just to get to the other side.

50:37And we made it. Thank God. Obviously, I'm still here today. And we got to the base camp. They taped the ankle up. We got off the mountain. We started coming off the mountain at 8 a.m. after the summit. We got into the parking lot at 10 o 'clock that night. It took us 14 hours and it normally should take about five to get off the mountain. So that was pretty, that was pretty intense. And I've climbed since, but not to 14 ,000 feet yet.

51:05Steph McMahon:That's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. Pretty crazy. Well, we're, we're getting the cue, unfortunately, that we have to wrap, but I would love to have you come back. I'd love to. Yes. Plenty to talk about, including my WrestleMania victory. Yes, I know. We didn't even talk about that. We didn't even talk about that. What an incredibly accomplished professional wrestler you are. And that singlet. Michael, you're just absolutely incredible and your stories of perseverance and love and passion and your why. I think your personal why, that's what matters most. I mean, that's what matters for all of us.

51:41Steph McMahon:So it's a really good lesson. Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate all of you. Thanks, Steph.