Michael Rubin

0:28We always recommend Shopify. Ever wanted to meet your favorite WWE superstars up close? Snap a pic, grab an autograph, and share a moment with the legends you've been cheering for? Well, now it's your shot, because Fanatics Fest is coming back to New York City this summer. It's the ultimate hangout for WWE fans. A full weekend of unforgettable moments, surprises, and superstar access like no other. WWE superstars already confirmed include Cody Rhodes, Rhea Ripley, The Undertaker Jey Uso, Chelsea Green, Trish Stratus Liv Morgan, Damian Priest, Charlotte Flair and trust us, there is more on the way So stay locked in Fanatics Fest takes over the Javits Center in New York City June 20th through the 22nd Hit up fanaticsfest.com for tickets and all the latest updates.

1:26Don't miss your moment. WWE world. Let's welcome on the next show. The newest podcast in the WWE and fanatics family. What's your story with Steph McMahon and Elise Dudzinski.

2:06Before we get started, I just, I wanted to say thank you to all of you. You know, last night, clearly Paul went into the Hall of Fame and congratulations to all of the Hall of Famers who were honored last night. But, you know, I recognize so much that his career started and his relationship with all of you started way before his relationship started with me. And that's something that I have great respect and admiration for. And I just love all you guys and really appreciate all the support for him last night.

2:48so without further ado this is our podcast what's your story it's like a totally different format live with an audience it's supposed to be very what calm and conversational yeah right so it's you know feels a little less intimate clearly with all the music and everything but we're going to make this work we're going to hopefully deliver to you a really genuine conversation and And hopefully it's something that you have some key takeaways from and really enjoy. And the thing to know about our guest is that he is responsible for all of this here. Everything you see at the world for this incredible commemorative title and for all of the unique activations that you're seeing for collectibles.

3:29This is the CEO and founder of Fanatics. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, allow me to introduce you to Mr. Michael Rubin.

4:10I mean, I think we can all say thank you to Michael Rubin for all of this. It's pretty phenomenal. Thank you to the amazing fans. You've got the best fans in the world. They are the best fans in the world. They really are. And this Triple H title sold out already in store. But it is available online. It's available online. I'm taking this one home with me. This is one. You can't have it. This is one of 500. I can't have right can't have this so I still getting it He's got one already you guys didn't share yeah, I guess I guess and you want to share a little bit about your sweatshirt I mean this is a incredible cactus shack collab with Travis Scott He makes some of the you know coolest merch in the world and you know He's such a big WWE fan and you know WrestleMania coming is like I'm gonna drop the coolest you know coolest merch in the world and And people have been staying in line for a long time to get this stuff.

5:04I love it. I was like. It's such a cool collab. And you and I were talking a long time ago when we first started all this. And your version of Cactus Jack was with Trav. And my version of Cactus Jack. I think we each stalked past each other. But I knew there were two Cactus Jacks. I knew we had the Trav Cactus Jack. And we have the Cactus Jack that we all know here. Right. And your friendship with Trav goes back a long way. It does. you know, for me, um, you know, I think a lot of people know my story. I barely made out of high school legitimately. So please tell your story for those who don't know.

5:36Yeah. Well, if anyone thinks they were a bad student, I was worse. I legitimately got a seven 80 on my SATs combined. And you're, you're, you're a billionaire. I mean, I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. I just want to set the stage. Very, very successful. So, so for me, um, you know, I always think you kind of gravitate to what you're good at. And I was a terrible student in high school. I was actually a pretty shitty athlete too. But so the way I learn, it's just great people around me. So Trav's like a brother to me. And how did you guys meet? Actually, James Harden, who used to play for the Sixers, but it's been a long time, good friend of mine.

6:16James and I met Trav through James years ago. And one day Trav actually said to me, hey, when you're in LA, come through my crib, I want to show you what I'm up to. And it was like a real game-changing moment for me, because I always thought about Travis Scott, the artist. I didn't really think about him as the real product visionary. And I went to his house, he's like, hey, let me show you this collab I'm doing with McDonald's. Let me show you what I'm doing with Nike. Let me show you what I'm doing with, you know, video games. Let me show you what I want to do in art. Let me show you what I'm doing with all these different brands.

6:49It was kind of amazing to me. I realized just how much he really drives culture. I'd say today there's probably not a person in the entire world that drives culture more than Travis Scott. So it's been a great partnership, a great friendship. But he's headlining Coachella last weekend. Tonight, I watched the performance online. It was so spectacular. So it's fun to learn from each other. And I think that's what we all should do. Yeah, that's right. And that's sort of how you You built your career. And, you know, for those of you who don't know, and if you don't mind expounding upon, you started your first business at how old?

7:24Eight years old. I was eight. I tell you, someone just asked me this yesterday. I'm like, look, you know, I grew up with, like, every learning disability on the planet. Like, I could barely speak. I couldn't read. I dyslexic. I was like, everything that could go wrong could go wrong. I was always told, like, you suck on all these things. And, like, I always did poorly in school. I was always never a good athlete. But I love to work as a kid. So eight years old, I'm selling, you know, trading cards, not to my friends, but to my friends' parents. I was selling like vegetable seeds door to door. When it would snow in Philadelphia, I would like hire five kids to work for me.

7:59And I would go sell the snow shoveling for like 20 bucks a driveway, you know, 35 years ago or 40 years ago. And, you know, I'd be paying them like, you know, a buck a driveway. So I just always had those entrepreneurial skills. And, you know. And what do you think inspired that? I think sometimes you're just born with it. You know, my parents, my mom was a psychiatrist. My father was a veterinarian. My mom always tried to, like, make me a normal kid because she thought that's what would be best for me. You wasn't a normal kid. Yeah, I was not a normal kid. But I really just loved business from the time I was a little kid.

8:38And, you know, it's funny because today it's normal to be a young entrepreneur. There's so many people that are, you know, entrepreneurs in their teens or 20s or 30s now. When I started in business, it was like people looked at me like so weird because people didn't start businesses when they were eight years old. I started a ski tuning shop in my parents' basement when I was 12. I actually owned a ski shop in a retail shopping center at 14. And by the time I graduated— But you owned a shopping center at 14? No, I owned a ski shop in a shopping center. A ski shop in the shopping center. I probably, this is 1986.

9:16And what do your parents say? They thought I was crazy. But I'll tell you. Did they have to sign the leases? Well, they did. And it's actually a great story of how I got into business. Because I first started in my parents' basement with like a little ski tuning shop. It was great. They had$25 ,000 at age 12 in business. That's insane. Well, two years later, I went to my mom. I said, hey, mom, like, you know, I really want to open a ski shop. You know, I found this location. It's$850 a month. You know, and she's like, like, Michael, you need to be a normal kid. Like, this isn't in your best interest.

9:54Like, I can't support this. Like, you know, I don't like I don't want you to do it. So instead of being depressed, like most kids would be, I did what any smart kid would do. I waited till my mom went to work. I said dad I got a great idea like I want to start a ski shop you know it's it's in Contra Hock and Ridge Butler Pikes he's like well why are you asking me I'm like well it was the first time ever he needed anything from him I like I need you to co-sign the lease as you know I'm 14 you have to be 18 it was 844 a month and um he said look I'll make you a deal well he actually said did you talk to your mom like nah no I didn't talk to mom about this and um and he couldn't tell you were lying he said to me um i'll sign the lease as soon as so long as you get good grades in school okay so the good thing was i lived we had a co-op program in our high school where starting in 12th grade you could get out of half of your school work to do your co-op program that was half your gpa somehow i got them to let me do that in 10th grade so half of my grades started half of my entire grades were from like, if I paid my rent on time, the landlord gave me a good, good, he gave me an A.

11:07So I started with a 2.0. By the way, my finishing grades were also about a 2.0. I got a lot of F's outside of the, got a lot of F's outside of the, paying my rent on time. Yeah. I was focused on building Mike's ski shop. So the grades never actually made it. I was not a good student. That was not my strength. And you know what? I think that's okay. Like, look um you know i think college is for a lot of people but it's not for everybody sure and it wasn't for me i went for six weeks i flunked out um i actually posted my report card about 10 years got a 1.87 for the short period of time i was there right 1.87 and like look to me what i really believe is you can do anything you set your mind to and like what's always made me you know any success i i've had has been because i i've outworked i've out hustled anyone around me and i believe Like, you know, if you just, you know, if you can will something to happen, okay?

12:01And, you know, like think about WWE World. I mean, this was a conversation that, you know, we had, Nick Khan had, you know, probably a year and a half ago. And then we launched our first WWE World last year. I think 60 or 70 ,000 people showed up. And, you know, you'll see how, like, awesome this is. You see about, like, having ideas going after it, having no fear of failing. And that's what I've done my entire life. And that's, it's so important. And, you know, we've been doing a few of these podcasts now, and some of these messages are consistent and coming through of very successful people who say, I wasn't necessarily the most talented.

12:35I wasn't necessarily the most this or that, but I was willing to work the hardest. The hardest worker in the room. Yeah, be the hardest worker in the room. I don't think your mic is on. It didn't sound like it. Thanks, guys. I think it's completely real. I can tell you that a lot of people think I try to just be self-deprecating to like give a good message. I'm not. Like, I haven't read a book since ninth grade. Like, I don't read emails that are more than a paragraph or two. Do you read books on people that, business people or anything like that? Not capable. Like, my brain wouldn't allow me.

13:09I would like read each line and then like have to reread the line. No, like Blink List or Short App. No, like, the way I learn, walking around here, I'm learning. Like, what do WWE fans want? Well, the best way to figure that out is just walk around and talk to people, ask questions. There's no dumb questions. So like I learned from you guys, like I learned from everyone around me, like that's my personality. So like work, like work ethic matters a lot. I can tell you there's been so many things that I've fucked up in my life. And, um, you know, I've just figured out a way to like, someone said, oh, this is impossible.

13:42You can't do it. I just like, I figured out how to, like, I have a will where I will not quit, period. and the story. I think that is probably the number one reason, whatever success I've had that I've had. Yeah. Well, one of the things I love that you said is really giving the people what they want. And I think that that's what's been so unique about this partnership is it has gone to the next level. I mean, I was talking about my husband, you know, who was inducted in the Hall of Fame last night and I was talking about the championship belt. Thank you. Thank you. And everything else. And he shows me, he opens his jacket and he shows me the four patches that he has that's going to be sewn into, you know, the memorabilia that's ultimately going to be sold.

14:23And it's like, it's real. We've never had anything like that before. And he was really wearing it, you know, wherever people choose to wear these things. But that's, you know, it's such a cool idea. And I love how open you are and how you really do delve deeper because it's customer first, right? And I want to understand that in terms of your business philosophy in general because it seems like that's always been your mentality is where there's a need, I can fix it. Whether it's in business, if there's a product people desire, I can make it. You know, how do you approach that? Yeah, I think you have to listen to your customer and everything that you do.

15:05And if I'm completely blunt, we haven't always been as good at that as we are today. I think. Yeah. Yeah. No, look, I started. I really like I've been building. I saw my first real company. eBay bought it in 2011 for$2.4 billion. And they have this little business called Fanatics that they didn't want. So they said to me, hey, Michael, you know, we don't want to own inventory. It's not what eBay does. Would you like this? and um you know we we bought it back then it was a pretty small business and my biggest fear at that point was going out of business from the sword of amazon because amazon's this incredible company and i'd watch them put so many of the big customers of my old company out of business toys r us was my biggest customer they're gone sports authority gone gnc through bankruptcy arabis well through bankruptcy it's like the first thing i wanted to do was completely differentiate myself so we wouldn't die.

15:59I think what happened is we got bigger. Um, you know, I think I really learned, like, you have to both build your business model and listen to your customer at the same time. And I'd say, I've really become obsessed, um, in the last five years of just like, just being like mad at looking at everything a customer wants and says, and, you know, we screw things up every day. And it's not like you're going to make mistakes. Because WWE screws things up every day. But it's like, how do you learn from it? How do you grow from it? How do you get better? And, you know, I think myself, we have 22 ,000 people today at Fanatics.

16:32And those 22 ,000 people, they're focused on one thing, which is how do we relentlessly enhance the experience for our fans? We have 115 million fans, okay? And by the way, I will say something. I really mean this. I used to say that even though I'm from Philadelphia, and by the way, Philly's got great fans. Very proud Philadelphia fans. Philadelphia's got great fans. And at one time, the part owner of the Philadelphia Sixers. Yeah, I was one of the owners of the Philadelphia Sixers. I used to always say, actually, the best sports market in the world was actually Chicago. They just have such rabid fans.

17:05Well, CM Punk would agree with that for sure. So I'm going to say something right now. More than any city in the world, I didn't understand. Of course, as a kid, I was a WWE fan. But I grew up and I was working 18 hours a day in my business. Like every other kid. Right. I got back into WWE in such a big way. And I will say, you guys are the best fucking fans in the world without any question. Better than anything are WWE fans. And you see it. Like, you know, look at, I mean, we're moving people through the store as quick as we can. And we've already done more, the store's done more volume to where we are now than the entire last year's WrestleMania.

17:47Because of how incredible these fans are. People are just waiting because they want this belt. They want Travis Scott, Cactus Shack. They want all the new things we're dropping. Well, I mean, it's cool. Yeah, it's cool. It's so cool. I mean, it's... So it's so fun to see. Like, to me, and I just love spreading the word, like the amount of people that came with me tonight who, like, can't wait to watch WrestleMania and can't wait to see what happens. It's just, like, so passionate. It's pretty incredible. The passion is unbelievable. Thank you to you and your family. for everything you guys have done.

18:19Thank me, but thank you. I won't be here without you. Well, thank you. I think you would be in some form or fashion, though. Thank you. I love you guys. But I think what's so special about the WWE universe, and I grew up a fan, right? And I was in the stands when I was a little kid all the time because I was traveling, and Madison Square Garden was where I sort of grew up across from this old lady. I would sit in the bomb and I'd sit across from this old lady who had a big bag of candy and like a big brown paper bag And she'd eat candy and yell obscenities at all the wrestlers that would go by out of the bomb It was like really funny and i'm a little kid looking at this lady like oh my god, but she was a huge fan And I think what's so special about the connection that we have is because our fans are really a part of what we do That's why I love listening to their feedback getting their thoughts giving them what they want because without them, we don't have a business.

19:15And they are a part, and now we have a multitude of shows that start all the way to someone's initial journey, even just finding them and recruiting them. It's incredible in the different programming that we have, and our fans are a part of those characters' journeys, if they want to be, from beginning to the main roster to competing in the main event of WrestleMania. Absolutely. And that is something so unique. The women's evolution that happened in WWE happened, yes, because of all of our incredibly talented women, but it happened because of them. They started a hashtag called Give Divas a Chance, which trended worldwide for three days, specifically calling, listening to them for longer matches, better storylines, character development, really giving our women a chance to shine.

20:05And it is because of them that the women's division is what it is today. and they know it, which makes them even that more invested in it. And it's a beautiful thing that I think doesn't exist anywhere else. Well, I'll tell you, as I said, I think, you know, Fanatics has gotten to be, you know, we're a decent sized company now with 22 ,000 people. We own a lot of brands that people would know here. We own Lids. We own Fanatics. We own Mitchell Nest. We own Topps. Great activation here. Bring everything together. But if there's one thing that I'll tell you is when someone at Fanatics who's in a different business moves to the WWE brand, they're like, you see them like six months later, they're like, it's crazy.

20:47Like these fans are incredible. Like I've never seen anything like it before. And, you know, it goes back to the thing you said, you've got to listen to your customer and everything you do. So, you know, I got here a couple hours ago. I'm walking around here next with Nick Khan afterward. And so what are we going to do? Just ask questions to people. What do you want more of? What do you like? What do you not like? What do we get wrong? What do we get right? How do we do this better? And you guys, one of the great things about WWE is you guys move so quick as well. Look, we deal with every – and Fanatics, we sell every sports property in the world, whether it's the NFL or the NBA.

21:22Which, congratulations, because that in and of itself is unbelievable. Thank you. Here's the best thing about what I'm doing. I feel like we're just getting started. I feel like we're a baby startup today. This year we'll be over$9 billion in revenue. Next year I think we'll probably be over$11 billion in revenue. and we feel like we're a baby startup. And the cool thing about that is you just realize what a big opportunity we have to keep enhancing the fan experience and everything we do, and we need to get better. Like, we're not good enough at anything that we do. Whether it's like last year I showed up and we weren't even doing the trading cards yet in WWE.

21:55And then we launched Topps with WWE this January 1st, and Chrome sold out, I think, in five minutes. It was one of the fastest releases we ever had because we had such an incredible product. And then I just walked into our booth over here and it looked incredible. But of course, we're never satisfied. We're like, okay, what else can we do? How do we do this better? You know, same thing with the Mercs. Same thing with anything we do. If we ever stop doing that, we'll be irrelevant. And you think that that is another key to business success is never, and I think probably life success, right? Never be satisfied.

22:25Yeah, I think the second in business, I think the second you get comfortable, the second you get arrogant, the second you're obnoxious, I think, honestly, you're dead. Like, bolt in the back of the head. Because, by the way, there's people trying to kill us right now in every business we're in. I mean, we're in the sports betting business with Fanatics Sports Club. We have Fanatics Live. We have Fanatics Collect. We have Topps. We have Mitchell Nest. We have, you know, Lids. I mean, there's people coming for us in everything we do. We have to be on our A game all the time. And then, by the way, when we get something wrong, make sure we're super intense about fixing it.

23:01So you've got to be a great listener in business or you become irrelevant. And I think it's one of the things WWE does so well. You're always listening to your fan base and using it to deliver an experience. Well, they're pretty loud. I mean, they do tell us. Yeah, you guys are not shy, by the way. Which is great. But I love that. Yeah. And, you know, last year, for anyone who's from the New York area, we launched our first Fanatics Fest last year. And we had, you know, we had every sport in the world there. The NFL, the NBA, hockey, baseball. This year we have Premier League coming, FIFA, F1.

23:35I got to tell you something, WWE-owned Fanatics Fest. You were probably a third of the fans. It was crazy. I had the commissioners of the biggest sports come up to me like, yo, this is crazy. These WWE fans, it's insane. So it's funny. I was actually at the Milken Conference many years ago, and there was all the different commissioners of the sports leagues there and me at this big, giant roundtable. Nobody really knew who I was or why I was there, but I was going to have a seat at this table and I was going to speak up. And sure enough, we started talking about the fan experience. And there were some who I will say, without naming names, were a bit arrogant about, oh, the fans will always be there.

24:16The rights will always be there. The money will always be there. And I had the opportunity to speak up. and I started talking about the strength of our brand and how many countries we were in and how many views we had globally. And I said, I'm not trying to be competitive here. I understand we have a global product, but this is important for us to all be on the same page in terms of reaching our people, you know, and, and it was, and the accepting and embracing the individuality of your superstars to have their voice. Yeah. So it's look, it was very interesting. I say all the time to everyone around me, we always have to stay humble.

24:57Yeah. If we don't stay humble, bad things will happen. And, you know, look at an example, you know, I'm looking right now at all the tops trading cards as I look over that I look left. I think about we're honored. We just relaunched this January 1st, but we took over, you know, we own tops. We took over NFL cards that we're launching next year and NBA cards and premier league cards and, and WWE cards and UFC cards. And the reason I say this is because competitors got complacent. They got lazy. They weren't innovating the product. Think about, we just announced that we're going to have the debut patch and all, everyone in WrestleMania who wrestles, we're going to take a patch, put that in a one-on-one card that lets people like these incredible fans get clicked.

25:39Could you imagine? That's what I was talking about, Paul wearing that at the whole thing. Yeah. And so taking things and letting fans connect to, you know, the most important athletes is like something. It's just one of many things that we thought about because we're hungry and humble. The second you get confident, you become irrelevant. And, you know, I think we came into a lazy business like the trading card business was complacent, was lazy. That created an opportunity for us. When people hear a thing about what they can do in business, you want to be an entrepreneur? Or just go look around.

26:10Like things change all the time. There's opportunities all the time. We're in the best country in the world. There is like, I'm telling you, new people are disrupting existing people every day of the week. Yeah, that's true. Especially now. Especially in this environment. Especially in the digital environment. And now with AI and everything breaking open. I mean, we're having this podcast here right now. Talking about all different kinds of things, you know, that are going on. And it's really, it's a remarkable moment in time, I think, to be alive and to be a part of the world. And as a dad of three, three girls, right?

26:43Same as you. Right? And five and three, is that right? Almost five, almost three, and a 19-year-old. My 19-year-old, best relationship in the world, we've been fighting a little bit the last day or so. It happens, it happens. Yeah, yeah. I told you she was getting a little lazy and a little complacent, so I wanted her up in the, I was about to throw water in her face yesterday morning. No laziness in your household. No laziness in my family, no. Including my two-year-old. I want to stay up late like me, get up early. Right, right. I want to raise some tough to start with. She's there with you from the get-go.