Raw Recap - The Vision IMPLODE at the hands of Bron Breakker: Raw Recap, Oct. 13, 2025

0:00The Vision betrayed Seth Rollins. It just happened in Perth, Australia. Oh, yeah. And we have a new number one contender and a mega victory for Dominic Mysterio and so much more. This is the Raw Recap, a WWE and Fanatics original production.

0:25All right, Megan, I was ready to kind of come in and go like, Okay, let's talk some more about Crown Jewel and ease into what happened on Monday Night Raw. Ease into the day, ease into the week, ease into the morning. We had wrestling on at 8 a.m. today. You know how stressful it is to be sitting there just having a little smear on a bagel and the vision betrays Seth Rollins? Do you know the type of stress that I carry through the day when something that literally changes everything happens right in front of our face? before i mean it's 10 o 'clock in the morning how do you go on about your day well luckily i have this and i have you and we have everybody that we can we can talk about all of this with because i think i speak for both of us when i say we have feelings oh tons good tons of feelings all right so let's get into this okay all right so this is a through line that played throughout monday night raw tonight that we didn't even realize was happening i guess in hindsight maybe you do a little like six cents and you go oh he really was dead the whole time but like while it was happening no the only thing i'll disagree i didn't think the turn was happening tonight i didn't think the vision i didn't think braun breaker was going to spear seth rollins tonight didn't that didn't have that on my bingo card but it did stop me in my tracks when seth rollins said i don't need anybody i don't need paul hayman i don't need braun breaker i don't need bronson reed yeah for sure did i think it was gonna pay off tonight no well i thought we were yeah breadcrumbs are breadcrumbs right and i was talking to somebody about it and i said yes did i think that we were looking at what could eventually be brawn breaker turning on seth rollins yeah maybe we'll get it by the end of the year maybe we'll get it early next year i didn't think we're gonna get it before lunchtime and that's what so we start the show right and we have the vision in the ring together which already, and we need to get into this to figure out where the root of this lies, how long this has been a plan, if it was decided today, if it was decided yesterday, weeks ago, months ago.

2:36We got to go back frame by frame. We're going to wrestling therapy. That's where we stay. So the vision's in the ring together. And immediately I'm like, huh, You know, in this whole ramp up to Crown Jewel, we didn't really see the vision together cohesively. We saw Braun Breaker and Bronson Reed and Paul Heyman working together. And we saw Seth Rollins distracted would be an understatement by the Cody Rhodes match. Two weeks ago when the vision is in trouble, Seth Rollins is nowhere to be found because he's thinking about this Cody match. last week we broke the whole thing down he's talking to Paul Heyman about well what if I can't beat him meanwhile everybody else in the division is concerned with this other thing over here and probably honestly Seth have faith in you as the leader of course you can beat Cody Rhodes now let's get to business so we see everything that happens at Crown Jewel Cody Rhodes loses to Seth Rollins Seth Rollins is a completely different person we saw him pronounce himself as the goat at the end of the show, throwing Kathy Kelly out of the ring.

3:46He didn't even want questions. He just says, I'm the goat. And then, and all of this sort of tension and insecurity evaporates. And Seth is Seth again. And he gets into the ring with the vision. And there's Seth and Paul Heyman and Bronson Reed and Bron Breaker. And Seth is explaining what makes him special, what makes him different. And that's the fact that he has never needed anybody. and I think beating Seth Rollins without Becky, without the vision, without anybody probably has given him this heightened sense of what he is capable of. And so he goes, not only does he say, I've never needed anybody, he says, Roman Reigns needed the shield.

4:33He says, I still don't need anybody. He says, I don't need anybody in this ring. And I was just, I was with you. like whoa whoa and now we remember before crown jewel and that match we saw paul hayman backstage in the locker room with bronson reed and braun breaker and told braun braun to not go help seth rollins if he needed it in that match and we were thinking on the crown jewel recap podcast we had this discussion was that a hayman call was that a seth call was that a breaker call i mean a few weeks ago on Raw, Seth Rollins was in the ring with Cody Rhodes and Cody Rhodes asked him if he knew that Paul Heyman was working with Brock Lesnar.

5:19And Seth lied, I think. You think? I think. And said yes, because everything goes through him. Yeah, I can think of one. I can think of one. You know what went through him? Braun Breaker's shoulder. Yes. And I don't think he was a part of that plan. So I don't know if everything really did go through Seth. Yeah. I would say now, I would say that there must have been something else working, but also maybe not based on the reactions at the end of the show. Right. Because you go, OK, so now he's but then he kind of covers it. Right. He goes, I don't need anybody in this ring. I chose them. And you go, OK, I guess it's a little insult sandwich.

5:58You know what I mean? Like, oh, I insulted you. Just kidding. It's a compliment. It's like, well, I didn't really like the way you phrase that, you know? And so he says, I chose them. This is why I chose them. This is why they chose me because I'm a visionary, et cetera, et cetera. Except what did you notice was going on behind Seth while he was saying all this? Well, Braun Breaker's body language completely changed. It was not pleasant. No. And I mean, this was earlier. Seth and him were having some fun. And Seth introduces Braun Breaker to Perth, Australia. And he's like, come on, do the thing.

6:31Do the thing. Do the thing you do before the spear. is what to our audio listeners who can't see the thing that I'm mimicking. The thing. But they were kind of having some fun jostling together. But as soon as Seth said, I don't need anybody, I don't need Braun Breaker, Braun's whole demeanor changed. He doesn't like to be underappreciated. No. You know, he works hard. And I think, and maybe that's it, right? It comes to a point where like Braun is like, I could be the future whenever I want, but I believe in you. Are you telling me you don't believe in me? because if this ain't a two-way street, I don't think it's the one I'm driving on.

7:07So then we go to the backstage, right? After this thing happens, we go to the backstage and Seth is really amping up his guys. He says like, these are his three things, the birth of his child, his marriage to his wife and watching these two grow. He says, make no mistake about it, that they are on the top of the mountain, that they are now breathing rarefied air, that they have made it. And he said, the crazy thing is, I think we're just now getting to the next level. We're only six months into this. I know. At the rate that you two have grown, wow. We're going to go places. He's proud of them.

7:46Yeah. Right? And then we see our triple threat, which we will talk about momentarily. Well, maybe not. We'll talk about it. CM Punk, new number one contender. I believe this was part of the Vision's plan. Here comes the Vision. except and tell me if I'm wrong I felt like Braun Breaker even coming to the ring for this was far more of an aggressor and leader than I'd seen him before. Well he feared Jey Uso immediately. Remember what Roman said about Jey that you need to go in and own the room that you're in? Breaker did that. Right? I felt like maybe for the first time he truly by himself owned it when he first like decides to dash down and you're a runner so you had to appreciate it because he went from zero to 60 getting down that charles robinson told us he was only running 80 this was 120 of braun breaker's speed yeah just terrifying terrifying goes right through jay so punk is in there waiting for him braun says watch this he tells punk watch this because he sees he sees his prey from across the ring he sees la night he goes no no just stay right there watch just I'm just gonna do this real quick so just watch it he calls his shot he takes it and nails it just runs around the ring spears LA Knight so now you've got LA Knight out Jey Uso out not that they necessarily would have helped CM Punk anyway because they're not exactly best buds and then Braun Bronson Reed gets in the ring creates the distraction but Punk has taken on taking him on.

9:21Bron Breaker gets in the ring. Punk is ready for him. Goes to the end. Then here comes Bronson Reed. Now the numbers game. And immediately Bronson Reed and Bron Breaker just take out CM Punk. And Seth Rollins is laughing at him. And Seth Rollins is in the ring with all that plaid. And Seth Rollins, he's got the world heavyweight championship. And he says, this will never be yours. This will never be yours. This will never be yours. And at the end, Punk is there. and he's lying in a heap, almost in a fetal position. And they kick him out of the ring. And then Heyman. And don't forget, the credits came up.

9:58I saw it. I saw it. I said, okay, that's great. That's it. Monday Night Raw was great. I'm going to get on with my day. And I tell you, I said, what's, and I said this, I said, you know what's interesting about that? Because I thought I'm already like the wheels are turning. I'm thinking this is the end of the show. so the wheels are turning of like what are we gonna like point out on the recap i go you know what's interesting i said to myself this is like a rebirth of the vision that's what i said i said this is a rebirth of a of the vision maybe stronger than they've ever been this is what i said to myself right because i go i go this image of hayman and braunbreaker and bronson reed and seth rollins all standing together at the end of this show i go very similar to the night that they first formed yeah when braun breaker and seth rollins and paul hayman before bronson reed was a part of it stood in the ring on the monday night raw after wrestlemania all together i go well i'll tell you what the future of this faction oh my god because all of a sudden seth rollins steps forward and braun breaker spears seth rollins out of whatever expensive shoes seth rollins was wearing and i went what now here i thought they were stronger than ever and and and bronson reed and i'm studying everybody right bronson reed is just kind of observing he's not really emoting i found hayman looks horrified oh my god oh my god and who knows was he horrified and this is where we start questioning now we question everything here's the thing about hayman he's taken the winner's side so hayman looking horrified i mean that's a sort of a neutral reaction right of course i take brawn's side of course i take we didn't know he would have to take a side that's a very risky scenario that's why you just look horrified because i'm siding with the winner so just right look or you don't trust him at all would you do you blame me well no but i'm the one he threw off the set he was hanging out with you i learned i learned from what from what i see fool me once you know shame on me twice well you can't fool me again that's the whole point so I think maybe you could be on to something but also was Heyman horrified because he knew this was an eventual plan but didn't know what was the plan tonight maybe don't know but he looks at Bronson Reed now Brombreaker does and Heyman is in between their two heads looking horrified and he's like basically saying pick him or me right now is the time and Bronson Reed's like okay and just starts beating down Seth Rollins tsunami's Seth Rollins which all of a sudden you go oh yeah I remember that is what Bronson Reed does to Seth Rollins yeah Bronson Reed has all the confidence in the world he's like I already took this guy out before right and you know why do I need to be under him you're leaving I'm leaving too right because guess what I did earlier this weekend by the way as well I pinned Roman Reigns I pinned Roman Reigns okay right also who else has Bronson Reed pinned in like the last six months I believe Randy Orton as well that's nuts and who was at Bronson Reed's side when he pinned Roman Ron Breaker he knows Seth Rollins there

13:15so then they look at Paul and Paul's got a decision to make and you're right he knows who he's siding with and in that moment he looks horrified he looks unsure but he voluntarily grabs the wrist of Brom Breaker and Bronson Reed and raises their arms up and in a year where it's all happened one of the iconic endings to an episode of Monday Night Raw Brom Breaker has taken the world title off the waist of Seth Rollins and Paul Heyman is holding up the wrists of Bronson Reed and Brom Breaker but you look at Paul Heyman's face he is in a spot where yes he's going to side with the winner but also Paul likes control Paul likes to be in control of the situations that he's in he likes to know what the next step is and Paul to me looks out of control he looks and he's not that good of an actor I think he deserves an Emmy yes but is he that good of an actor I don't know it seems like Paul Heyman was not ready for this move and had to think on his feet in this instance and look he doesn't have the relationship with Seth that he had with Brock Lesnar or that he had with Roman Reigns or any of that I don't think that him and Seth are saying I love you to each other but he said it to Roman reigns and so maybe it's not as difficult of a of a of a choice for Paul to make yeah I mean Paul looks totally thrown off guard which as the oracle as the wise man I mean there's few times right where Paul has been thrown off guard yeah he didn't prophesize this no but I mean Ron Breaker looks as confident as ever holding that world heavyweight championship yeah like he's made this like he's made this call and like by the way five minutes before this this moment there was already a new number one contender named CM Punk is the number one contender for the world heavyweight title but listen when Braun Breaker and I think this is almost something that like people were aware was going to happen eventually but maybe they weren't sure when is that Brom Breaker has gotten himself to the point where he's realized his own strength.

15:41It's almost like when your kid comes to the realization that they can beat you up, so you can't tell them what to do anymore. You know what I mean? You never want your kid to get there, to know like, no, I think I can kick your ass. So I don't think I am going to go to my room. And you're going, oh my God, I'm completely powerless against you. You figured the whole thing out. The whole thing was a schmoz from the beginning. It never made any sense. And I feel like that's what Braun Breaker has done. He's like, wait, why do you keep talking about the future? Why do you keep talking about years from now?

16:18Why do you keep talking about 10 years? Why don't we do this right now? So do you think this was something Braun Breaker had been building towards? When you go back and you look at all the breadcrumbs, you go back frame by frame, or is this something that Braun Breaker is so disrespected that Seth Rollins said, I don't need Braun Breaker, that it lit something underneath him. I mean, it's a great question. I think Braun Breaker, if I was Braun Breaker, and I am not Braun Breaker. I can tell. But if I, well, okay, you didn't need to say it. If I was Braun Breaker, it's unnecessary. If I was Braun Breaker, I would have not been through.

16:58I think Seth Rollins has been displaying poor leadership qualities since at least since this match with Cody Rhodes was announced. Maybe since Clash in Paris. Ever since the wife got involved. Unfortunately, yeah, because look, on one end, it's been great. I love seeing Seth and Becky together. I think it's amazing. I loved the mixed tag match. But that wasn't vision business. You know what I mean? And especially coming off of that, leading to Crown Jewel, where he's been totally on a different planet thinking about Cody Rhodes. Staring at the watch, off in space. Right. And if you're a brawn breaker, if you really are the future, then that means you have to have leadership qualities.

17:37And that means you have to respect other people's leadership qualities. And if a person that you're considering a leader does not display those qualities, well, guess what? You're an alpha. If you're sitting there and somebody is the leader and you're like, you know what? I could take this from them. And there's nothing they could do about it. How do you maintain that respect? So I think over the course of the last month, at least, I would imagine Braun was probably having those feelings. Because we brought that up many times that Seth has been separated from the vision. Yeah, we've always pointed out that it's been Braun Braun and Paul Heyman.

18:16Right. And then I think. And it was Seth and Becky for a while. And then it was just Seth. Right. I mean, Seth was so distracted, so in his own world, that even when Becky Lynch was backstage in the locker room going on about how she lost to Maxine, She was going to go to Adam Pearce. How she's not going to Australia. Seth couldn't give her an ounce of attention. He didn't know any of it had happened. No. I think, yeah, yeah. And so I think that all of that combined with tonight, Seth saying, I don't need Bronson. I don't need Brombreaker. I don't need Bronson Reed. It's like, that's when it's like, okay, we're not, we're not doing this.

18:53We're not doing the, I'm your loyal soldier. I'm just here to sit under the branch of the learning tree. like I'm the man dude like I can make it so that you can succeed that's the whole point of this but maybe it's time for me to go out on my own now we've all you know been on this journey with Braun Breaker since the beginning I mean his NXT days were so impressive he comes up to the main roster and we all go yep yep he's it yeah he's it I mean he's in the Royal Rumble we go yep he's it I mean he has moment after moment after moment he joins the vision and Seth Rollins and none of us have any doubt in our mind that braun breaker is the future of the industry i think all of us would say braun breaker is going to main event wrestlemanias is he the future right now well yeah he believes he is who wants to be the future when you think you're the present yeah and i think that's where he's at and you look at seth rollins right and he's on the ground he's clutching those ribs who knows what kind of condition he's in and you know i would imagine he's got to get some kind of medical treatment, but I don't even know if he has a good doctor.

19:58The nice thing is that you don't need to have those emergencies. Thanks to ZocDoc. Have you heard about ZocDoc? I've heard about ZocDoc. You like ZocDoc? Big fan of ZocDoc. Oh, ZocDoc is the great, we're talking about it's 2025. You know, those days of only going to the doctor for emergencies, that's over. Okay. You go to the doctor to make sure you're right. You go to the doctor to make sure that you're healthy. You go to the doctor to make sure there isn't an emergency that you could avoid. Imagine if a doctor had been able to say, hey, stay away from bra breaker. He's bad for your health. Okay.

20:30You don't want the night sweats to turn into all day sweats. You don't want, you know, your fingers to go numb, texting I'm fine. You can't do it. You got to maintain. You got to keep up with your health, your body. It's all that you have on this planet is your body and you don't want it to fail you. I mean, some people think that they work out and they're like, okay, hey, I'm good to go. I go to the gym. I'm fine, right? Working out is a great way to take care of your body, but truly getting healthy takes more than hitting the gym, okay? It takes consistent annual checkups with your doctor. It takes a quality nutrition regimen and taking care of your mental health too.

21:08That's again, something Seth Rollins had to learn the hard way in this whole Cody Rhodes story. Now, I mean, I think that finding a doctor can be difficult especially you've told me when you like moved to a new place how do you find a doctor you don't have family around right no recommendations right i don't want to go to just anybody that's what you do sock doc you know and then you don't even have to call around oh i need a doctor oh what do you need a doctor accept my insurance right doc tells you they do that's great are they accepting new patients right doc tells you they do they do oh that's fantastic stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to ZocDoc.com slash raw recap to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today.

21:56That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash raw recap. ZocDoc.com slash raw recap.

22:08And yeah, man, I think that maybe that's what it's all about is when people keep telling you you're the future and it's time to hit the present but look i'm looking around right and i find it so unique that when i was growing up and i was watching wwe it was really easy especially as a kid i cheer for the good guys i boo the bad guys right yeah all of a sudden all those good guys that i would have cheered for none of them get along with each other they're now in a triple threat and it's not a friendly triple threat trying to determine who the world champion is and I go, all these bad guys get along even better.

22:47No, because Braun Breaker spears Seth Rollins out of his shoes. And look, when Paul Heyman raised the hands of Bronson Reed and Braun Breaker, Perth went wild. But I think that the reason they went wild was because of the moment that was just there. It was shocking. Right. But I don't know how to feel. Of course not, because Seth Rollins is a bad guy. I don't know if I feel sympathy for Seth. I don't know if I'm happy with this new version of the vision. I don't know he doesn't know either you know what I mean and then I think okay CM Punk who everybody loves he's the number one contender to Seth's title is he?

23:25because Braun Breaker was holding it up at the end of the show but CM Punk won the match he has to be the number one contender he got laid out but think about this it was brought up earlier in the night it was brought up last week too Paul Heyman said, you know, he brought up the choice that he made at WrestleMania, how he chose Rollins over Roman Reigns and his best friend CM Punk. Yes. Punk becomes number one contender. Right. Immediately after The Vision comes out. Right. This is a wild speculation. Okay. Completely wild. I love wild speculation. Is there any chance Punk maybe talked to Braun Breaker?

24:05Punk talked to Braun. And then Paul Heyman's best friend in the world? no okay i don't know i'm just throwing it's a wild speculation i mean i would have because is seth still gonna be a guy we boo because he's a villain and we're just gonna cheer cm punk well i'm cheering cm punk right now i am 100 i've been convinced not to boo seth rollins seth rollins is still deserving of booze you know why because he didn't come off the cody win with any humility whatsoever he came off the cody win like a complete villain i did it all by myself I don't need anybody I'm the only one who doesn't need anyone I'm literally the greatest of all time there's been no reason to cheer for Seth Rollins none but also the same can be said I mean but there's no reason to cheer the vision I mean you saw what Bronson Reed did to Roman Reigns no except that you cheer for when cool stuff happens and Brombreaker and Bronson Reed do like really cool stuff like stealing Roman Reigns' shoes it wasn't that cool but a lot of people thought it was cool it was kind of cool you got a t-shirt out of it yeah I mean that's exactly yes yes You know, yes.

25:07When people look, the reason Roman Reigns got as much attention as he did is because he started beating everybody, stacking them up in triple threat matches, dominating. And looking really cool doing it. And guess what's happening now? They're cheering for him. But guess what's happening now with Bronson Reed and Braun Breaker? They're doing cool stuff. They're destroying everyone. Everyone. They're not lackeys. You know, and that's... Bronson Reed is more than a muscle. they're two people who easily could step forward and say we are in the world heavyweight title picture easily would blink an eye no because brunson reid pinned roman reigns exactly and braun breaker is braun breaker he's spearing everybody and we've all agreed he's the future so why not now right i just don't know you don't know how to feel about it well i mean you feel about how you feel about it you look at it you witness it you got no choice in the matter you know this wasn't on anybody's bingo card and so i get i get where you're coming from you see the breadcrumbs right we saw the body language change in braun breaker but i mean they're not breadcrumbs they were dropping full bagels we see the bagels dropped we see braun breaker's whole demeanor change and i am thinking at the time i have months to process how i feel about this no you don't because a lot's going to change with braun breaker in the time before he turns on Seth Rollins.

26:32Right. What did you write down there? I wrote questions for Sam when I was watching this morning because I wanted to talk to you all about it, but I said we must save it for the show. Right. So the first question I wrote is, is this too soon? Is this too soon? Meaning, is it too soon for Braun Breaker? Is it too soon to disrupt the vision? Both. I think it's a double question. No, I don't think so. I don't think it's too soon because I think that they're, because I don't think people really look at Braun Breaker as a one-day scenario. I think people look at Braun Breaker at, look, I think if Braun Breaker is by Seth Rollins' side, then you're talking about him.

27:13Maybe he'll main event WrestleMania 43 or 44. As of today, he's in the conversation for 42. There's no way he's not. And you can't convince me he's not in the conversation for 42. too. Everything changed today. Another question I wrote down, is Rollins a good or bad guy? We just talked about that. I mean, I say a bad guy who got beat up by a bad guy. I mean, good guys are getting beaten up by good guys. I don't know what to make of anything. Do you think Rollins ever fully trusted Paul Heyman? Well, that's a great question. Thank you. I thought so, too. Because that's very good. You sound like Rollins because I didn't need anybody.

27:56I wrote it myself. Did Seth Rollins ever fully trust? I mean, I think that Seth Rollins deliberately kept Paul Heyman at an arm's length for that specific reason. I think Seth Rollins trusted Paul Heyman as far as he would allow Paul Heyman to get in, meaning other people that Paul Heyman has been with, he has been a part of their whole life. Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, you, I mean, you watch documentaries and you see this is not an on, simply an on-screen relationship. With Seth, I don't think he let Paul Heyman get in that far. And I think that what ends up happening is Paul Heyman takes it, could take that personally.

28:46When it comes down to like, okay, well, something's happened here and I need to make a choice. Is Paul Heyman going to choose the guy who won't allow him fully into his sort of orbit? You know, Paul Heyman doesn't want to be one of the many moons orbiting a planet. He wants to inhabit the planet. Also, Seth, really smart guy, in my opinion. Well, you just look at the past, right? He's someone who's learned from the past. He's become obsessed with the past. He thinks, you know, there's a lot of baggage there with both CM Punk and Roman Reigns. CM Punk and Roman Reigns are both two of Seth's biggest rivals right now.

29:24Yes. Paul Heyman has a history with both of those men, and Seth knows that. And Seth, it feels like over the last six months, did a really good job of sort of using Paul Heyman to get the World Heavyweight Championship, to get the Money in the Bank briefcase. Yeah, but he didn't exactly stick the landing. That's right. That's if Paul Heyman's involved. We don't know. So many questions. So many questions. Speaking of questions. Oh, you have more questions.

29:55I think I do have more. I just have a lot of notes here. Well, a lot of thoughts. I love that you had to get it down. Yeah, I had to write it all down. Punk is clearly a good guy unless Punk got to Heyman and Bron Bron. That was my theory. I know I pitched it. You didn't like it. Oh, I also pointed out Seth keeps saying greatest of all time. Well, let's talk about CM Punk, okay? Okay, let's do it. Because CM Punk gets out there and he wins this triple threat. But to me, I found this triple threat really fascinating because it wasn't like the Fatal 4-Way at Clash in Paris because there was this feeling that Jay was kind of a little bit of an odd man out because it felt like Punk and Night both had this idea of, well, we're all just trying to beat up Seth, right?

30:45and Jay was like, nah fam. And I think Jay was right. It's a fatal four-way. It's not a handicap match. And I think that this triple threat, the egos on Punk and Night and Jay have all developed to the point that they're all at each other's throats. And this one felt like a much more aggressive match to me. This one felt like a much more every man for himself match to me. this one felt like maybe all three of them realized that they screwed up in the Fatal 4-Way that they screwed up at Clash in Paris and that that's why none of them walked out with the world heavyweight title and they needed to correct that except Jey Uso didn't exactly totally listen to his own advice earlier in the night because earlier in the night he went out to help Jimmy Uso you don't think Big Brother Jim can beat big-headed Bronson Reed no That's what he said.

31:42He did say that. And I was like, bro, he did beat Roman Reigns. I mean, that's tough. But no, he did. Oh, man. And there's so much there with the Usos. I know. It's just Jay had said in that same backstage. He was like, look, I can't let this get in the way of a World Heavyweight Championship opportunity. And I can't help but wonder if it did. Right. But then also, he's not going to let his brother get beat down. You know, he's not. It's such a tough spot for Jay. He's not going to let that happen. Yeah, and you know, I think Jay is struggling with this idea that he knows that, he thinks that he's trying to define success by Roman Reigns standards.

32:26Which is, Roman Reigns is one of the greatest champions of the modern era. Correct, but it's a fool's errand. Like you can't, an individual, a performer, an athlete, whoever it is, cannot judge their success by the standards of another person. A human being can only judge their success by their own standards. Roman Reigns was successful and continues to be successful until he got beat by Bronson Reed. But what makes Roman a successful person is that he's successful on his own terms. That's why he's uniquely successful. I think Bronson Reed, I'm sorry, Brom Breaker, decided on Raw. He needed to be successful under his own terms, which is what's going to make him successful.

33:14And I think, I think Jay is making a mistake if he's modeling his success after Roman Reigns, because Jay is not Roman Reigns any more than Jay is Seth Rollins or Jay is Jimmy Uso or Jay is CM Punk. Jay is Jay. He's uniquely himself. That's exactly right. And that's honestly what's made him a success. Yeah, that's what's captivated the audience. Would you say that the success of Jey Uso is anything like Roman Reigns? Very different. Very different. They weren't eating for Roman Reigns. No, it was a totally different thing, but guess what? The children are dressing up as Jey Uso for Halloween. Something has worked.

33:50And I think that Jey is almost like struggling with both of those things, right? Like, Jey Can I be Jey and be World Heavyweight Champion? That's exactly right. And he's done it before, but he couldn't hold on to the title. So he's struggling with the dude Jey Uso, yeeting Jey Uso, the entire persona of Jey Uso, who he is, can that be the world heavyweight champion? And it's like, yes, dude. Yes, it was. It can be again. Stop doubting it, you know? And I think he's searching for, he always seems conflicted, this Jey Uso. Always seems conflicted. instead of just trusting his... Instincts, sort of, right?

34:36That's right. Yeah, 100 % instincts. I mean, his instincts say, help your brother. Help your brother then. But there's this part of him that says, would a world heavyweight champion help their brother? Jimmy and Jay had matching gear tonight. See, you got to help your brother. You got to help your brother. Did you notice they had matching gear? I did. Yeah. They're both wearing the silver gear. I was like, oh, because that's real. And then you realize like, that's what I want. And I don't think it's a downgrade. And I don't appreciate that CM Punk and LA Knight are both like, hey, why don't you go back to tag team wrestling?