Shawn Michaels

23:39Steph McMahon:And the rest is history. Yeah. And I was too afraid in the locker room to tell everybody, like, how do you do this? Yeah, I'm sure. What am I supposed to do when I walk there? I have no idea. Give me a hint. Like, how does it start? Yeah. so you know we I just what was your music did you have any no music no music no no so you come out to the you know

24:00oh my goodness yeah and and you know and I just you know I saw him circle the ring so I started circling the ring and was just waiting looking at his body language and I saw him started coming forward so I went forward and I knew what we were doing so I locked up and then he started talking to me and we went from there. That's so funny. It was it because all I was told was you know Art's a good kid uh he'll beat you with a spinning neck breaker. I was like okay that was it. That was it. That was it. Yeah I came walking back from the ring and Terry Taylor was there he goes I said, was that your first match?

24:40I said, yes, sir. And he goes, ever? I said, yes, sir. And he goes, that was pretty good. Yeah. And it went from there.

24:51Steph McMahon:That's funny. Yeah. So Terry Taylor was there on your first night. Yes. And then how did your, like, how did your paths continue to cross throughout time? Well, I was there for six months and Terry was, you know, Terry and the Rock and Roll Express were, And they were all great to me down there. You know, Duggan was there. Jake Roberts was there. Rock and Roll Express, Ted DiBiase, Hercules Hernandez, just a bunch of guys, the Fantastics. And they were all just spectacular with me. I mean, I was a young guy just trying to—and they were—I think they all enjoyed teaching. Right. But they were all really good to me.

25:31And so—and then I went to Kansas City after that. But I learned so much. We wrestled seven days a week down there. And we did double shots on Saturday and Sunday. My first week, I worked nine times. Oh, my God. And we did that for six months. I did that for six months.

25:50Steph McMahon:I mean, that's a good way to get good. Oh, yeah. For sure. It was fantastic. And you were working with them, right? So they're teaching you the whole way. People better than you all the time. Yeah. Yeah. It was spectacular. It really was. I mean, that's one thing I wouldn't change for anything in the world, which is, again, getting the opportunity to start in Mid-South for Bill Watts and the crew of guys that he had down there. And they were just all, you know, so good to me. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Tops is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Tops Now.

26:26Steph McMahon:highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Topps Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial numbered parallels, some Topps Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match. So which moments will you collect?

27:10Steph McMahon:With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Topps Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. It's interesting in your doc, you talk about now these kids come in and in six months they have to be like main roster ready. And they don't have this opportunity, right? They don't get the chance as much. Or do they? You know, that's kind of where I'm going with the question is, you know, how do they get those reps? Certainly they're not working nine times a week.

27:53Steph McMahon:You know, and the athleticism, you know, that they bring, right, it's a whole different level, I think. It is. No, it's very challenging. And look, and that's one of the things I can remember being asked, like how long do you think it takes to get one of these athletes that doesn't know anything to get them totally ready for the main roster? And I said, honestly, to get them ready to what I think is adequate to be ready for a main roster guy? I said three years. I was going to say two. Yeah. And they said, really? Can't get them faster than that? And I was like, well, I mean, I guess we can, but not to get them to where I think they need to be.

28:38Simply because of that, because we don't have the opportunity. We have people that, you know, I was in the hundreds of matches in probably three months.

28:51Steph McMahon:Yeah. I can't imagine that. They may not get there in a year with the amount of live events. And then you're just like a sponge, right? Just soaking it all up. Yeah. And again, it was every night of the week. I was in the car with those guys asking questions. And the car is so important. But also, they had all been in the business. They were so much better than me. We still have, we've got a few people down there that have more experience, but it's young on young. So even if they're having great conversations in the car, you don't know how much they're actually learning and growing. in that respect.

29:25They're doing their best. And again, we have, you know, and Matt and all the other coaches do a phenomenal job, but you can't, you know, increase reps without reps. Yeah. It's just that simple. But look, the Evolve show, LFG, you know, some of these partnerships that we have with, you know, the ID program and TNA, you know, and, you know, reality of wrestling with book, you know, that's helping us add to those reps. And again, NXT now is getting out. Is AAA a factor as well? Yes, yeah, AAA as well. And again, we're out there doing more live events. You know, we're not just doing coconut loops.

30:07We're going out, you know, we just did a string of really good shows, you know, in New York, you know, White Plains and Plymouth. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and they were all talking about, like, you guys used to do Raw back then?

30:19Steph McMahon:Yeah. We're like, yeah. And I described the Plymouth building like, gosh, it's crazy you still know that building. Oh, yeah. You remember the really cool ones. It's true. Yeah. You know, so, yeah, I mean, told him a story about White Plains. And again, yeah, just one of those things that. You want to tell it? Well, no, it was just, no, no. It was a Pat Patterson one about a double knockout with Scott. Yeah, yeah. It's still fun, though. Everybody loves to hear wrestling stories. Well, it was, we were having a dark match at the end of TV. As we used to do. Yes. Again, so you have TV, so they've seen everybody.

30:58And then they have Razor and I, Scott and I go out there and have a match at the end of the night. And Pat said, I want you to try something. I want you to go out there. You guys, you're going to do a double knockout. He says, you don't move. I love the Italian version of that.

31:17Steph McMahon:I was trying to figure it out He's French by the way But it's like But it comes out in Italian French Canadian is the best I got I'm from Texas What do you want from me? I'm dead So I'm sorry He goes you don't move you just lay there I mean they're not going to do anything They're not going to make a fucking beep But then wait And I don't want you to move Don't you fucking move and just wait for them and then see if they start coming. We're like, all right, we're going to try. You know, it's a dark match. We go out there. Half the people are leaving. Right, because they're tired. I mean, because the show's over.

31:59We're like, oh, we're tired. We're going home. Scott and I are working our tails off. We're just laying there. Boom, going to the double knockout. And we're just laying there. And you can hear a pin drop. And it's like, oh. And you know when it's silent. It's like, oh, God, they've got to move. And you're like, we're laying there. I said don't move yeah and that's all you can hear I don't want you to fucking move you know hold these oh I'm going to look later and they're not making any noise and you're like oh my god I gotta move

32:32but we don't move but then sure I don't know to me it was 10 freaking minutes yeah yeah it was probably a minute you know but 45 seconds but it felt like forever We're laying there like, oh, God, dying a painful, slow death.

32:50Steph McMahon:This is weird rotting in front of people. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, my God. And all you want to do is move. If you'd have said, you know, you'd move a little bit, then we'd have been fine. But you're like, oh, how are you going to get it? No, don't you move. I'm like, yeah, okay. You know, are you doing that? So we're laying there, but then they do. They start to come, and, you know, you're looking out of the corner of your eye, and no eye jokes. Anyway, but you're looking out of the corner of your eye but then you can see some of those people are starting to come back. Oh, they're interested.

33:21Steph McMahon:No way. And now they're starting to get it and then they start coming and they're like, oh my God. He was right. He was right. And then we get up and boom, boom, we finish. We come back. I mean, he does his stuff. We did a double knockout for the next 10 years. Every night. And then, I mean, not every match. and people seeing Scott and I do it. Now everybody's doing a double knockout because it's working like a million bucks. But yeah, it all happened in Dark Match and White Plains. That's so funny. See, I love those stories. And I've heard Paul tell a million stories. And I had to learn how to not call him a hunter too.

34:00Yeah.

34:00Steph McMahon:Because that was our whole relationship is how I knew him was Hunter, you know? Well, that's the thing. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. And like I said, whatever. Yeah, but then we got engaged, and I was like, I should call him Paul. You can't introduce yourself. He didn't start with Paul the first time. Right. Okay, so you're out. Agreed. Agreed. You know people how you know them the first time, right? Yeah. Well, then, you know, all the time after that. And, heck, I saw a story out there. Somebody like, you know, Mr. Perfect gave Sean in, you know, a hundred of their names. I'm like, I gave him the Triple H name.

34:36We were calling on that a long time before. That was another one. I don't want you calling him that. Oh. Yeah. Because I wanted to call him, we wanted to call him Triple H a lot earlier. Like at the start of DX or? No, but even when he was, when he was just Hunter Hearst Helms. Oh, really? Because we were just running around together. Right. And, you know, it was from, you know, AA Arn Anderson. Right. So I just thought, I thought, well, he's got to, you know, Triple H. You know what I mean? And so we would just call him that. Like a cooler version. Yeah. We would just call him that runner, you know, running around and stuff.

35:04And then we had mentioned it to Vince one time, like, no, it's too much like, you know, double A, Art Anderson. It's nothing like it.

35:10Steph McMahon:It's completely different. It's triples. One's double, the other's triple. It's different than triples. Anyway, but sometimes you lose some price. But then I think it was the Hell in a Cell match. And again, that was right around the year. Again, we were leaning on him quite a bit with the attitude and stuff and all that. And then he's like, you know what? We can start calling him Triple H. oh okay so that's how i got it but i would like to go on record is that it was yours yeah well that was mine all right before all right before kurt's but kurt does get all the all the credit for the heartbreak kid for sure oh yeah oh yeah absolutely yeah that was like i said it the other day uh was it from a chris ledue song that he you know oh that's right kurt was big you know into country and western and and uh i used to ride with him a lot obviously and you know and he one time, you know, again, aging ourselves, put a cassette in.

36:08Yes. Back in the day, boys and girls, it used to be this.

36:12Steph McMahon:Eight track or actual cassette? Yeah, that was an actual cassette at the time. A little. Yeah, we're not that old. Eight track was in high school. Scorpions and Judas Priest. Oh, yeah. But yeah, he put it in and it's Shot Full of Love. It was Chris LeDoux's song and it was Heartbreak Kid. But at the time, I was like, it was all right. Yeah. Because in your mind, you envision yourself being cooler. Right. You know what I mean? I think you brought cool to a different level. I knew it wasn't going to be that cool, but I just thought it'd be something a bit more masculine. And then, obviously, I just blurted it out once on a promo.

36:56And, again, that's one of those ones where I go like, because, again, the music the first time I heard it, I wasn't sure about. But all those things, there are a couple things I just wasn't sure about in that because in your mind you'd feel like, oh, I'd like to be tougher than that. But the character wasn't. And the more I embraced that, the more just like this is the greatest thing in the world. The more he got, the more fun you had. And it was. I wouldn't change that character for anything in the world just because it was, I don't know. Of course not. To me, he was different, unique, and I don't know.

37:29Like one of the words the kids use today, which I love, And we go, man, that HBK was a menace back in the day. Yeah. You damn right he was.

37:39You damn right he was. Oh, my God. It's so awesome. One of the things I wanted to ask you about, because you mention a lot in the doc again.

37:49Steph McMahon:It was just fresh on my mind because I was just watching it. But you talk about perspective and how when you were in it, you couldn't really appreciate it the way that you could now. Yeah. Right. And it's something because, you know, the Hall of Fame's coming up for me and, you know, tomorrow. And for the first time, I feel like I'm I hope anyway that I'm going to have the perspective like to just take everything in tomorrow. Yeah. You know, and enjoy it and not be so nervous. Right. I always get so nervous before I do anything. But if I can, unless I was with you. That is nervous for different reasons.

38:34Steph McMahon:But, you know, and I hear you talk about that and I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that. And how do you get to that place? And is it possible for younger talent to get to that place where they're they can live in the moment? and enjoy it. Yeah, well, we certainly try to, you know, coach and teach from that perspective is trying to enjoy it, you know, allowing yourself to take it in, especially... And I think that's different, right? Like, I haven't heard that being taught. Well, I don't know. We just, because I didn't, so I guess that's just something that I always kind of focus on is when you walk out there, Take a second to really look around and to see all those people and go like, wow, it's pretty damn cool.

39:26I made it. You know, at least for that one instant. Enjoy that and recognize that you're getting to do something that, you know, you can say, I know there's been 42 of them and there's been X amount of wrestlers. But in the scheme of, you know, the globe, it's still a very small percentage of people that get to experience something like that. Yes. I don't know. And they have all worked very hard. And this is what you kind of work for. Yeah. Take the time to enjoy that. And, you know, it was so competitive. I was so competitive. of, I think the business was as well, but I was just, I don't, I sometimes wonder if I'd have been as good as I was if I didn't have the attitude that I had then.

40:22Right.

40:23Steph McMahon:I don't know. Right. And so. Well, and I think it's youth is a big part of that. It's not necessarily that you were, you know, didn't look at it the right way or whatever. I mean, I think you did. Like you did what you felt was right. But I was also working over my shoulder. I was also working about the next day. Yeah. I never allowed myself to. Because you were a perfectionist, you think? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And if it didn't go exactly the way that I envisioned it, it bothered me. Right. And I was a perfectionist, but in the most negative sense. Right. You beat yourself up a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

40:58And when I did that, clearly I lashed out. Right. And that was just never positive. And again, so I wasn't able to enjoy it because I was so critical of everything that went on. And I just didn't feel like I had that luxury. Again, because there are some talent. I've told Mello that. I've looked at Mello and said, look, I don't, you know, this business is the way that it is. and sometimes the best people are not always going to finish in first place. It's just that, you know, you may have to work harder than somebody else to get half as much. It is. It is, but.

41:43Steph McMahon:Hard to accept. It is, but I feel like they've probably heard. I can't, I don't know if it's my job to teach them about life. I will go ahead and leave that to their parents. but I need to at least do my best to teach them about this job. And yes, it is life. I just want them, I don't know, I guess I so worry about anybody going down the same path that I went down. So I'm just kind of on them to make sure that they don't beat themselves up in that respect or that they're able to, again, find joy or pleasure or comfort in something other than just this job. you know, I, I was, I didn't have anything else.

42:28Um, I was wrapped up in this, every ounce of my being was wrapped up into who I was in this line of work. They're a much healthier generation than we were. Certainly than I was. And for that, I'm thrilled. That's why, that's why, again, I can't, I, that's why I beat it, you know, like a drum that I've just, I'll never be one of those bitter old timers or I'm not going to sit there until I'm back in my day. I don't know. Like in my day, Look, there were some really cool aspects of it, and some of it I thought was bullshit and dumb. Right, right. But I just want them, you can, perspective has taught me this, you can kind of have it all.

43:06A lot of that, though, is going to be your choice. Right. Because your all is what?

43:12Steph McMahon:Yeah, how do you define it for yourself? Each individual defines having it all unto themselves, not everybody else's. You know what I mean? and to help them understand it and look at it from that perspective. And so, I don't know. Again, I'm hoping that's right there. But that's so helpful. And I do think our best teachers and coaches in sports or academics or whatever it is do give great life advice if you're listening. Yeah. Well, look, some of the people that I guess you hear about, A lot of them are, you know, former football coaches, former basketball coaches. You know. Well, and think about this, Sean, too.

43:54Steph McMahon:Your kids are roughly the same age, right, as a lot of this talent. Well, look, and that's also something I mentioned, I think, I don't know, maybe it was in a different interview, because they asked, you know, did, I don't know, I think they asked, would being a good coach make you a better father? And I said, well, I actually think being a good father made you a better coach. Yeah. Because there isn't anybody that I have more mercy, grace, you know, compassion for than my children. And I certainly do what I can to do that with, you know, with our talent. And, you know, and that, you know, certainly one of the last things I ever do is judge anybody.

44:37Right. Because I have one man that cannot. So I'm trying to be open and I don't know, at least as fair and understanding as I can be. about whatever it is they're struggling with. Because I don't know enough about all of them to say whether it's right or wrong, whatever it is they're going through. Our job is to get them through it and then to help them get them back on course and help them do good at this job. And if that helps them in other aspects of their life, that's obviously a huge plus.

45:08Steph McMahon:Right. That's awesome, Sean. I bet you are making such a difference. And I hear it from them. you know they love working for you and they love that you're giving them clear direction that you can be critical but you're also so supportive um and it's whatever fun you have with Javon Evans like the two of you seem to constantly get each other that seems like a great I have fun with a lot of them and and um and I do I feel like I'm I'm fair um and I but I adjust to each one of them um you know which is a great leadership quality is different than you coach trick yeah you know i mean i thought trick and i had a lot of really good conversations um and he you know again but he was somebody that i felt uh you could challenge more you know um and and because trick is i don't well yeah because he was tricks uh he's scrappy he's a fighter and he's He's a guy that's not afraid to work hard.

46:07And I could challenge him quite a bit. Yeah. You know, and...

46:12Steph McMahon:Do you think it's because you both are brought up by military fathers? Maybe. Is there a connection there? And look, and I will say, you know, I hope I'm not speaking out of line on his part, but faith is a part of, you know, our lives as well. And those were things that we could, you know, that we could talk about as well. And so I would, again, use different aspects in that respect to, you know, to let him know why I was making whatever decision I might have been making at the time. But he was somebody, again, that I think was, he's somebody that you know is so special. They all are. I mean, Oba and Trick and Javon, they're all very, very special.

46:58They're all unique. And all very different.

46:59Steph McMahon:Yeah. In very different ways. And because, oh, but you can just, you know, he was hands off. He never once came to me and complained about anything, rarely asked about too many things from a where are we going, what are we doing, what am I doing, stuff like that. The only things that he would sort of get bothered by is, you know, he'd have this idea of how he wanted to do some things at the end of the match and I might change it. And he had really worked hard in wanting, you know, in giving it some thought, you know, really trying to have the initiative and show how much he was working on it. But I have the luxury of kind of knowing where we're going.

47:46Steph McMahon:Right. And he doesn't. This is consistent exactly with what he said to us too. Yeah, okay. Yeah, because we had the chance to interview him. And it's exactly what he said. Yeah. And I don't remember a time he just said, okay. You know, he never, I don't know, he never balked at anything. He was a consummate pro all the time. And that's what he says because he said, look, I had the opportunity to suggest things, you know, and even if I didn't understand why Sean picked the direction, I mean, literally, he said the exact same thing. Sean has something in his head. He has a vision. I know that I don't, I'm not privy to that.

48:23Steph McMahon:My word's not his. and then he said so I would do the best I could to execute because I understand that I am and like I work for this man and I want to give him what he's looking for and you know that's true of any sort of job right he just has this perspective I've certainly tried to tell them I do not take the trust that they put in us from a creative standpoint or even me as you know one of the guys one of the many people because it's the entire NXT crew that builds them all together and gets them to the main roster. It's a group effort. Including the fan base. Yeah, absolutely. But we all take it really seriously.

49:08Again, none of us, like everybody in Orlando, that's one thing I'm comforted to say. None of us are looking to move up. We're all happy in Florida. You have a great tan, by the way. Thank you very much. Some of it's even real. Got a couple days at the beach. But it is. And that trust is important to us. We don't take that lightly. And so everything we're doing is to give them the opportunity to get to the main roster and to have success. Right. Because we've seen some people get to the main roster and not have as much success. So we're trying to make sure we, you know, accurately prepare them in a way that would give them the best opportunity for success.

49:58And so.

49:59Steph McMahon:And as quickly as possible without as many reps. Right. Right. And that's not easy to do. Right. And they're not going to get that many more reps going forward. You know, those things are just, then that's a business model. Right. It's different now. I think people have found that is, you know, not a must right now. And so that changes how you do things going forward. There's not a one-size-fits-all for all of this. And, you know, we've got almost 100 people down there and trying to find 100 different ways to teach 100 different people doesn't just happen by magic. Yeah. Road to Gold is the latest WWE exclusive from Fanatics Casino, bringing WrestleMania thrills right to your fingertips.

50:48Steph McMahon:It is the most star-studded casino game ever built. Spin reels featuring 20 WWE superstars from Cody Rhodes to John Cena and my personal favorite, Triple H. And for the first time ever in an online casino game, you'll hear the voice of WWE himself, Michael Cole. Battle to the top for rewards with bonus spins, mystery wins, and cash collect moments. This is WrestleMania Road to Gold, and it only lives at Fanatics Casino. Must be 21 and over. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Not available in all states. See Fanatics Casino app. Perfectionism, right? Do you think that you were born with it? was it an example that was set for you um like how early on can you remember being very hard on yourself because I find it's not something that just shows up later yeah well look I don't know uh you're gonna get me on the couch here in a minute so I look you're in the I will say this because I felt like I had a wonderful upbringing.

52:09So I've never wanted to – I always put the heat on myself because I feel like that's the responsibility I need to take. But, you know, we had a strict household. And, you know, success and winning and things like that were obviously expressed to be way better than not winning and not doing well. But I think I go back to the insecurities. Both my brothers went to college and graduated college and stuff like that. And I guess I always felt like I didn't get an education, so I'm not the smartest one. And what I wanted to do was just so different than everybody else. So when did you know? And it just seems, I knew when I was 12.

53:03Right. I knew when I was 12. Again, I saw it once, again, Southwest Championship Wrestling. It just. Who was it? Well, at the time, again, it was just coming on. So it was the montage at the beginning. Really? Oh, yeah. What did they do in the slow motion of the guy jumping off the team? You were like, yeah. You had the cross body and everything else. I'm like, oh my God, this is the coolest thing in the world. But it was, you know, it's got Casey, Eddie Mansfield, you know, Terry Funk. The Funks were there. Wahoo McDaniels, Tully Blanchard. They had the biggest rivalry going on. Tully and Wahoo was a huge rivalry in San Antonio.

53:39And Tully was like our version of, you know, he was like Texas or the Southwest version of Ric Flair. Yeah. So Tully was just the coolest, you know, meanest bad guy. and then Gino Hernandez came in with him and him and Gino were incredibly cool. Like, oh, the lady, woo, and all that kind of stuff. You know, and Wahoo was the big bruiser and beating everybody up. And then people like, you know, Bruiser Brody would come in or, you know, Bruiser Bob Sweet Hand. Nick Bockwinkle came down a couple times. Yeah, so it was just, and it was just absolutely cool. I mean, and, you know, I went out and told my mom, I'm going to be a professional wrestler.

54:14And she, you know, give me that. That's nice, honey. and I never grew out of it and then you know started going and got the magazines and and all that kind of stuff and learned what was going on in the AWA that's the first time it was the WWW yes you know and you would get the rankings worldwide wrestling you'd get the rankings and stuff and then eventually you know cable tv came around and then we had uh we got world-class wrestling out of Dallas with the Von Erics. Then we got WTBS, so that was Flair and the Freebirds.

54:50Steph McMahon:Wow. DiBiase. And then we got the WORTV out of New York. And that's when I got to see Bob and Bob Backlund and, you know, Pedro Morales. Watched Snuka jump off the cage onto Morocco. Yep. You know, just that, like, oh, my God. That's the coolest, absolutely the coolest thing ever. And I, you know, and I never grew out of it. never grew out of it. I agree. It's the coolest thing ever, and I'll never grow out of it either. Yeah, and it's still going today. Look, that's, and going back to the kids, it's one of those things that, that's what, you know, doing this documentary was so cool because they can at least, now they understand it a little bit.

55:35Yes. Because even them, in the jobs they do, they have found their joy and their passion of, of, of getting to watch and seeing their work go out there and do well. And it's like, they, they not, they, so they understand a little bit of the romance that I have with it. And, and that's what makes it all so enjoyable for us. Again, when, you know, with Cheyenne, you know, the girls go out there and they're looking like a million bucks and she's like, you know, you know what I mean? And absolutely. And again, it's, you know, Tatum Paxley, she picked my shirt. Johnny and Candice, they picked everybody.

56:19John Cena doing his stuff. And so it's just amazing. That was my graphic. That was my shirt. It's so cool. Yeah. So-and-so won the NXT Championships. She was wearing my makeup. Again, it's just...

56:35Steph McMahon:That must be such an incredible feeling. It is. So like I said, they just, they understand it a little bit better now because they, they have a vested interest. They can relate to it. Yeah. In their, in their way. Exactly. Right. And it's, you know, clearly in a much healthier way, certainly than mine was. But so I don't know. It's, it's something that, and again, Rebecca has always been, you know, in a weird way from the first, from the first time, you know, we got married. We walked into the Freeman Coliseum, and we came down, and your dad saw us from literally the other side of the building.

57:18And he walked over, moved everybody out of the way, and she was the first person that he introduced himself to. Wow. You know what I mean? And she's like, nobody's ever done that for me before. You know what I mean? So she's got a loyalty to this place as well. And so we're just a weird family that way. And, you know, that it's, again, this place is invested, you know, in the Hickenbottom clan in a way that, you know, that we're appreciative of. And, you know, what you ask for us to do is to work, you know, our backsides off to do this job. And we don't have a problem doing it because it's what we enjoy doing.

57:56Because you're allowing us to do the things that we feel like we were put on this earth to do. You know what I mean? Right. My children are allowed to use the gifts.

58:06Steph McMahon:That they were given. Yeah. that they feel like almighty God gave them to do a job that they really, really enjoy. And how cool of a, of a business, right. Where it can run the gamut in terms of opportunities. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, whether it is hair and makeup, which is, you know, an artistry in and of itself, you know, or it is branding and marketing, or it is creative services where you get to create all of this incredible artwork and covers and whatever it is. And then there's the writing side of the business. And then there's accounting and there's like anything you want to do, you can do in WWE.

58:42Absolutely. And the biggest thing they understand now is the time. Yeah. You have to work your tail off. Absolutely. And it never stops.

58:52Steph McMahon:And that's also life. It is. But that's the thing that they look at me now and they go like. Oh, I get it. We get it now, dad. Yeah. And you did that for us. That's pretty cool. So I don't know. So like I said, it's kumbaya moments for us anyway. But how amazing. It's cheesy for the world, but it works wonderful for us. Cheesy is the best. I love the cheddar. I'm not complaining. Bring it on. Bring it on. Yeah. But how important is faith for you in particular? You know, how did you find, I know, I believe Rebecca was a big influence, but how did you find your way and was it back to God? Did you have a relationship when you were younger or was it a new relationship?

59:45So I was raised a Catholic kid. Right. So, you know, I went, let's see, it's not kindergarten, not first grade, but second, third, fourth, and fifth grade, I believe were Catholic school. So you're in the suit and getting taught by the nuns. Did you get wrapped? I did not get, I was a good boy. Oh. Yeah, I was actually a really good boy. You were? Yeah, I went to Helen Handbasket, obviously. But it was a good run. I had, you know, I've kind of booked into my life. Started good, went really awry in the middle, and I did. I did. I was good as well, so. But, no, I was a pretty good boy. And, but, so I was very Catholic, you know, you do the sacraments.

1:00:32I was an altar boy at one time. So I knew of it. But, and again, this is no disrespect to the Catholics out there. Again, we had a Catholic wedding, right? Yes, I'm a Catholic, yes. I was there. A lot of up and down and on the knees. I thought he was talking about after. Yeah, so I got new knees, so now we can go back. But so it was loosely there. but clearly paid no attention to it. I would always say I had a God-given gift to wrestle. I felt like that was something. I believe that's true. I really did. But it wasn't anything that was one way or another. Obviously, I have the injury. And believe it or not, one of the first conversations Rebecca and I had, and heck, I think it was our first one, and she's like, do you believe in Jesus Christ?

1:01:31and I said yeah because I did but I didn't

1:01:38Steph McMahon:you hadn't thought about it in a long time hadn't thought about it plus I didn't know that because I'd heard the whole born again stuff and that was always because I can remember early in high school again we're a Catholic family and this you know a lot of us on the base were Catholic families and one of our friends was and I can remember my mom one time did you hear about the almonds And like, no, they were born again. I don't know. I didn't know what any of that mean. Like, who? He's like, who? What does that mean? You don't want to be that. Born again churches. Like, oh, who? I didn't know what it meant.

1:02:15But you're like, I don't know. She's whispering it. So I guess it's got to be pretty serious. So anyway, that was all I knew of it. And then, of course, you see some of the crazy preachers on TV here and there. You know, hey. Right, right, yeah. The evangelists. Yeah, so it's not, I don't know. But anyway, she asked me that, said yeah, and I mentioned to her because I did. I was like, I need to get going back to church anyway. Just one of those things, I always knew that was probably something I needed to probably have a little bit more in my life. If you want any structure, because I'm kind of, I found like I'm a very structured individual.

1:02:51Yeah, it helps. I've got my things that I do, and I think all the people at NXT will tell you, I have to work in a structured environment, so it's got to be a certain lady. Him over there not going to be a certain person. I stay at 11 o 'clock. I'm in there at 10.55. He's showing up at 11.15. And I'm like, what is it, Russo, for the love of God, man? Well, some things don't change. He's never on time.

1:03:20But that's the colonel. We were never late for anything. So I've got that. The colonel being my dad. Yeah, my dad, yeah. And to this day, I mean, I tell people younger than me, yes, sir, yes, ma 'am, it bothers the hell out of them because I'm the oldest guy in the room. But I still say, yeah, it's just something that comes out. And I might have been a drug addict, but I was on time.

1:03:45Steph McMahon:You know what I mean? So when they said get out at 2 p.m., I was out. You were out. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, anyway, but so that was, again, just how it started. And then, of course, you know, she and I got married very quickly, and she was, you know, a lot of fun. Yeah. I mean, we came out here to get married. Yeah. We got married in Vegas, Graceland Wedding Chapel, and we had fun. Oh, that's so great. Oh, it was awesome. Yeah. It was tremendous. And, uh, but so we go back home and she's like, that was fun. Yeah. But now it's time to go back to life. And, uh, you were like, no, no, the party should continue.

1:04:32Steph McMahon:I was still going. And she's like, cause we only, we didn't know each other for that long. She's like, Oh, he wasn't just having fun out there. He's kind of like this all the time. Yeah. Um, and sure enough, not long after that, uh, you know, she finds out she's pregnant and then having a baby. And so she's like, I mean, like my wife is like, boom, she makes a decision. Like, it's like, okay, this is done. That's done. This is done. I'm eating tuna fish and oatmeal, you know, you know, for the next nine months, going to make sure the baby's healthy. You know, there's, we're going to the, what is the OBGYN?

1:05:06And they're giving stars for, if you make, if you make your weight and stuff, she's, you give her a goal. She's like, I'm getting a star. Oh, I wish, I wish I had the star. I feel like you didn't have a chart on me either. Man, I gamed a lot. Well, as I was saying, she's such a gyp. I mean, she had abs and stuff for like nine months. Like abs over belly?

1:05:28Steph McMahon:It's like the side of the belly ones. Yeah. I mean, anyway, she's an animal. But long story short, I'm still off the deep end a little bit. And she just mentions that she's going to want to start going back to Bible study. you know uh but sure you know i'm supportive husband go ahead and do your thing right right um you go do that yeah and and and you know and every now and then i'd you know be peeking over like oh what are you reading what are you looking at um so that christmas i get some you know some uh books you know i get a study bible for christmas but i um i get this one book um and it's called straight talk to men.

1:06:12And, uh, and so I'm reading it and it's talking about, you know, you know, what godly men are supposed to be and fathers and stuff like that. And I'm reading this thing and I'm like, Ooh,

1:06:23Steph McMahon:I'm a little far from that.

1:06:28Steph McMahon:None of this stuff. And I don't know. And it just like, yeah, just, it really bothered me. Um, and then, but not enough for anything to change. But it was, but it started. It's starting. She never says a word. She's just doing her thing. She just bought you a book. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, no, but that thing was just, but I would ask about stuff. Yeah, yeah, you were genuinely interested. I was genuinely, but she never once, I mean, she didn't nag me. She never got on me. She never said anything. and you made the decision on your own that was one of the things because she said she didn't tell me until afterwards one night I'm out of it and she goes into the closet she gets down on her knees and is crying, praying and my goodness what do I do to change him what do I do to change him and she says all I hear is don't change him change you and she's like so I just I'm the one that needs to change seemed really weird to her but she went ahead and did it and the change in her is what had an effect on me and what was that uh become the woman that she is the most selfless uh being on the face of the earth just I mean she gave up everything for me and those children everything you know what i mean and you know every aspiration that she had she's you know she's smart bright she's a hard worker gorgeous you know yeah but i mean can uh knows numbers like the back of her hand i mean she can she she could she could have done anything yeah and what did what did she want to do did you hear her talk of things before you guys strangely enough she's going to school for accounting wow you know that's what i'm saying that's like what i'm saying from a from our you know from our portfolio stuff to the tax stuff i mean she's she's on it yeah you know and and anyways but it was you know uh it just was such a weird thing in that you know what like don't worry about him you know where you know you knew me why'd you run from me you know she was raised in the church and stuff like that so you know it was more about and it was just so weird to her that like you know changed me hell I'm fine compared to him but she did it anyway that's the message that came through to her and that's what went on and then I just started asking questions so you know the book wasn't there's like a subtle hint or anything like that it was me asking right no no no but i guess that was the thing though but i guess because so many people have asked like what'd you do what'd you say to him and and she's like nothing you know i worked on me witness a change in her behavior so yes she became so selfless and became the woman that she is but what what did she do differently like did you did you witness a shift in her behavior no i can't because she never really nagged you or anything no no no um but i mean to this day it's still you know we're i don't know we're men we're dumb you know we just i miss i still miss so many things you know that you know that she just does so naturally and that yeah like even her she's you You know, she's, I guess, I'm going to get in too much trouble with it, but it's like even she's, you know, she was raised to keep the house clean and all that kind of stuff.

1:10:27And that's what I was saying. She's like, he doesn't care about a clean house. He wants to sit with me. Right. He'd rather have time with me than a clean house. He'd rather have the time with me than maybe in the kitchen cleaning. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So she's had to, you know, I mean, again, we still have a spotless house. Right, I'm sure. But it's one of those things. She just does it after. Yeah. When I'm gone. Yes, yes. You know, but it, you know, I just things like that, I guess, you know, did so many things that I just think, and she's, believe it or not, she's similar to you in that she's very driven.

1:11:01She's very independent. You know, she doesn't, she doesn't need me at all. She does in a different way. No, but, but, but she would have been successful.

1:11:14Steph McMahon:Right. Without me. But again, how does she define success? Yeah. Right? How does she define success? By what she has now, her children. That's right. And her husband and all the love that you guys share. Yeah. For sure. So she is a success. Yeah. But even that, I don't know, even us having Cameron the first time, I remember it was before we were even married. She's going to a Nitro show, and when she's talking to me, going through the airport, you know, she, you know, running to get her plane. And I'm like, I want to have a baby with you. And she's like, she's like, don't tempt me. I'll do it.

1:11:56And I was like, yes. I said, throw those pills away, throw those pills away. And she's like, don't, don't you tell me to do that. I'll do it. I said, do it. She goes, I swear to God, I'm grabbing them. I'm grabbing them out of my purse right now. So we have this whole conversation and she's running through the Atlanta airport to catch her plane. And she's like, I got them in my hand. I'll throw them in the trash can i said dude i don't care if you do it and years later we're traveling through

1:12:21Steph McMahon:the atlanta airport she shows me the trash can wow but but yeah she throws them away and and you know and we're getting married i don't like in a month um but but then we get married we have the greatest time in the world and we say you know what i say let's maybe let's wait maybe let's wait six months we're having so much fun we had that baby we're having so much fun and she's like all right tremendous um i think maybe two or three days later and because we're going we're going to the whole foods and all this and like oh there's all these almond butter pecan butter all these different things let's try all those i leave and go to work the next day i come back and i go i say i want to try some of that almond butter and she's like

1:13:13I'm like where is it she goes I ate it all and I was like oh I was like okay it's all right I mean can I get some of the pecan butter

1:13:26I ate all that too I've been cleaning all day she said I think I'm nesting oh yeah she knew yeah yeah and then we go and find out you know so we're not waiting six months We find out she's six weeks pregnant. We're off to the races. Wow. Anyway, yeah, it's been a, but our whole life has been like that. Again, we weren't trying to get pregnant during y 'all's wedding. That just happened.

1:13:52Steph McMahon:Which I consider the best omen of all time. We've never really planned anything just because it's the way our whole life has gone. and we've gone where we feel like, you know, the good Lord leads us and what doors open for us, we go ahead and roll through. The ones that close, we go like, you know, we'll all live with each other in a trailer. We don't care. Right. It doesn't matter. You know, I retired because I felt like it needed to be done and I needed to come home. I don't know that we were set for life or anything like that. Sure. It was time to, and I don't know if I probably didn't help her out much, but I felt like I needed to go back and have something to do with my children's lives.

1:14:39And then did that and, you know, then said, let's go get a ranch. All right, let's go get a ranch. You know, we left a business and a house in, you know, north of San Antonio and went farther west and bought a ranch. And what are we going to do with that stuff? we'll sell it. And we sold it.

1:15:01Steph McMahon:But for someone who likes so much structure, how, how were you able to? Because, because that's where the faith comes in. Okay. So first of all, you know, we've been, you know, tithers since the day, you know, we got saved and, and there's certain promises there that look, and look, and if at the end of the day, it turns out it's all a lie. And I, we get shafted at the end of the day. I'm going to go like, Oh, you son of a, there's nobody out there i guess but boy am i boy am i pissed um you know son of a biscuit but i don't know because because they all will live with me in a trailer so we don't really worry about it i don't know i i'm i don't know one i do i have faith that it's all gonna work out we've like again we've been smart and all that kind of stuff right right but all i guess But we will nilly-willy do stuff, but still do it, I guess, in the smartest way we think.

1:16:02Because I guess I'll say this. We don't, you know, I don't know if we don't make X amount of percentage on our, I don't think we've ever, like, made money on a house sale. Like, you know, who cares? I mean, I don't know. None of that stuff's going to make or break it. But we came out to Florida, and when I visited the performance center, I came back, and she just can tell that it was different. And she's like, well, I don't know. And I just brought up the idea. And I think that was really cool. It was neat down there. I like what he's doing. and it's pretty special. And she's like, she said, I have to be honest.

1:16:51She said, I was really surprised. And I'm probably telling it wrong. She'll remind me who I am. Yeah. But, you know, she just, she was really surprised that I retired when I did and didn't do anything.

1:17:03Steph McMahon:Huh. She always thought. Do anything with the business. Yes. Yeah. She was, nobody was more amazed than she was that I just dropped it. Up and left. Yeah. She's thought. Because again, even at that time, I had, you know, I had an offer to, You know, even if you want to just come back every month for pay-per-views and the two TVs, anything to, you know. To stay involved. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I've all kind of been creatively into that kind of stuff. Right. And so, but no, I just, you know, I wanted to come home and do what I could. And he said that we got the ranch, but then we came to Florida and I went down there and visited the performance center.

1:17:38And she could see the look in my eye. We were talking about it. And she was like, well, I was surprised that you, you know, I always figured you'd do something in the business. and I was surprised that you left when you did and how you did and went away from it and nobody was more surprised than me.

1:17:51Steph McMahon:But she had never told you that? Mm-mm. Wow. No. No, because she, I mean, she just, I don't know. She just, I guess she tries, she knows she can influence my decisions, I guess. And she's very, I think, conscious. She never wants to manipulate in any way, shape, or form. Right. You know what I mean? Because, you know, I don't know. she's just, she's always been wonderful about that, you know, about not ever pressuring me and, you know, letting things come to me in their time. Wow. You know, and that's beautiful. Cause I guess, I think she feels like, I think I'm a terrible wife is what I mean.

1:18:30I think it's just from the standpoint that I think she doesn't think that it will be real or it will last.

1:18:37Steph McMahon:Right. If it's not my decision. Well, and she obviously has a great history of letting you do this, right? Like what she was told and being there for you in a different way, right? Than maybe she would have expected or you would have thought and intentionally not influencing you, right? She wasn't saying things to you about getting off drugs or anything like that. She wasn't forcing you to do anything ever. the best way was always to just, you know, let you, like you said, let you come to it on your own. Well, and I think it was just the other day she said, but she's, strangely enough, she said, I've always, the role you're in now is the role that I.

1:19:21Steph McMahon:Always saw you in. That's so cool. Yeah. She says, you know, she didn't know how it was going to come about. Well, and she said you run the wrestling school. Yeah. You know, like I'm sure that. But like even back then, there was a time getting early in my faith and everything else. I'm putting together all this stuff. You know, early on, you're just feeling all this stuff and, you know, all these leadings and stuff like that. How does it start? You have this, huh? How does it start? You know, I guess, I don't know. It was just, it was, you know, sincerely, I don't know, reading my Bible and taking, and just having quiet time.

1:20:03It's the stuff I still do to this day. I still get up every morning and, you know, and read my Bible and do my devotional. And then, you know, I have to, you know, I have to time myself now, but I got to, you know, whatever. And then, you know, have quiet time and just see if, you know. And sometimes it's, you know, just be still and know that I am God, you know, which is like, you know, nothing to change. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. Just keep doing it. Yeah. You know, they're not always, I don't know. I mean, and it's certainly not a science to it. And God, my goodness, I'm not the guy to ask.

1:20:38There are people that are way better at it than me. But it's just things like that have always happened in our life. It's, you know, certainly for as long as, you know, I've been doing this. And then for our marriage, 27 years. That's why, again, she's, you know, when we talked about the performance center and stuff like that, And I was like, well, maybe, you know, in a short amount of time, we talk about it. And by the time we are leaving Florida, she's got it in her mind. She is dead set. We're going back to the ranch. We'll pack up in a month and we'll move to Florida.

1:21:15Steph McMahon:Cheyenne tells the story. You guys had a house purchased by the time you left vacation or something. She's already Googling. She already had the places that we were going to rent until we find a place that we like. yeah and then I'm like really and then we sit and we have you know talk with the kids and talk about it and and we go from there and that's exactly what we did we went back and in a month's time she had us that's amazing she's she's the most amazing woman ever one of one best wife ever yeah well you know man I don't obviously I'm obviously I'm biased I'm sure you know you're spectacular but she is man she's not not compared to her i'm telling you she's freaking money and but but you know some i you know if anybody deserves it it's me i don't know what i'm doing of course the love of god you know i'm a walking train wreck man so you know i had this um I was going through a lot and I was compelled to write something down.

1:22:26Steph McMahon:For some reason, I just grabbed a pen and I had a post-it note in my closet and I wrote, I love you. And it stopped me because I felt like it was God telling me. Everything's going to be okay. I love you. It was really beautiful. Yeah. Well, you know, do you remember a gazillion years ago? We got you guys for your wedding, you know, a couple's Bible and all that stuff. And it was so weird. You know, because, you know, I don't know. That stuff. But I remember, Sean. It's so polarizing. I remember when you first called Paul. Yeah. You know? You know. So that's the thing. Even that thing, you know, and when, you know, geez, you know, and when, you know, when he got sick and stuff.

1:23:18You know, it's, you know, they said enough of those things have happened in my life. And again, I try not to, you know, that's why we can live in the freaking trailer.

1:23:30Steph McMahon:Yeah. Again, everything. Again, I'm always, you know, so thankful for this job and the life we have and everything else and for our children and everything else. but if it's all gone tomorrow, if something, you know, I don't happen to them, happen to you guys, just, you know, it's like, you know, I pray for you guys every morning. You know, it's, I just, those are just things that not a lot of people have that in their lives, you know, which is a wonderful family and wonderful friends. You know what I mean? And so we've managed to get that in this crazy job. And to me, it's hard to really care that much about anything else.

1:24:10I don't mean in the bad way, not care, but it's, I don't know. He texted me this morning, how are you doing? And I'm like, he's like, I'm doing good. I do have some issues. I do have some problems. But I said, I can't give any of them to you because they pale in comparison to yours. And I said, it is such bullshit that I don't have you to complain to anymore. I said, I literally cannot bitch to you anymore because it means nothing.

1:24:38Steph McMahon:You know what I mean? He's so not holding up his end of the deal anymore. So, you know what I mean? So, you know, I mean. He was looking forward to seeing you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but, you know, it is. It's, I don't know. It's stuff like that. You guys have such a special relationship. Yeah. I mean, you do. The group of you, but you and Paul, you know, in particular that I've witnessed. And it's such a privilege to witness. It really is. Well, it's, yeah. It's weird. I wish that every now and then I'd love to be able to say on stuff like this the stuff we text to each other but we still get it.

1:25:22Steph McMahon:Best not to. Probably best not to share. But look it is. Like I said, wonderful family, wonderful friends.

1:25:35Again, there's nobody else. And I don't want you I mean who am I to say

1:25:46Steph McMahon:But you're so humble I hope you realize How important you are And how much you mean To so many people And that's around the world That's the impact you made As the Heartbreak Kid That's the impact that you make on all of these talent, the impact that you make on your children and on your friends. You're such a special person and we're all so lucky to know you. Well, that's very nice. I don't know what to say about stuff like that. You can't handle the positivity.

1:26:30Steph McMahon:That's why I want to say it. I'll make you squirm in that chair. I appreciate it. I will, again, that's where it goes back to the, you know, all I know is that, like said, you know, if you guys can make it, you'll be there on my deathbed. But, you know, it'll be one of those things that's the only things that, again, every day it starts the way it does and it still comes back, you know, to that same very small group of people. and uh and all i know is that that's all that's all i'm technically have any amount of you know what little control i have in this world that's the only thing i have any amount of control over is my relationship with them and it's you know and it's all thriving now and that's enjoyable and i don't know i just want to always do anything i can to keep it that way um it's stuff like this.

1:27:31It always makes me nervous that, I don't know, you're going to say something wrong or something's taken out of context. Right, I know, I know, yeah.

1:27:37Steph McMahon:And people are going to say that anyway, no matter what. No, and you've, you know, grown up, you know, that way. That's been my whole life, yes. You've gotten used to it, yeah. But you never get used to it. No, you don't. You don't. It's never fun to hear. Oh, come on, really? I didn't mean that at all. so that's what that's again that's why i that's why i go back to the book and i try to you know because all i'm supposed to worry about is you know when i have my last breath here you know my next breath is in front of the man himself and you know and all i want to hear is you know you know well done my good and faithful servant you know what i mean so and if i can if i can get that then i mean you know that's that's i don't know it's all you can do either that or i go into the ground and it's nothing and it's all been a lie and whatever.

1:28:26Right, like you said. Right. And then you've been had. Yeah, just turning into worm food.

1:28:31Steph McMahon:That was a good run. It was a good run. Well, it got me through. Thanks. I believed it. Well, I think that's a beautiful way to end. Thank you so much, Sean. It's been like a love fest. No, I love it. It's great. It's great. Oh my goodness, I'm sweating now so bad. well at least they didn't cry on this no I know but you almost did a couple times I can make it through Hunter now for the most part my wife's still always going to be a little tough though she's going to be a tough one well that's alright yeah you mush

1:29:13Steph McMahon:thank you thank you you got it Thank you.