Six Feet Under - Michael Hayes talks Chelsea Green controversy & producing Undertaker’s matches

10:13Michael Hayes:would have been who no it'd probably been loud because i'd have been cussing probably a lot of

10:19The Undertaker:that man it never really it wasn't a rip it never crossed my mind that i was at a truck stop and could have got help well you but i was a free bird at an early age so there there may there may have been things uh altering my decision making you think really

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11:29Michael Hayes:You run the shows, you settle the rivalries, and you decide the final outcome. Pre-order WWE 2K26, King of Kings, Attitude Era, or Monday Night War Editions to get up to seven days early access starting March 6th. When did the Freebird start? How did that get going?

11:52The Undertaker:Well, funny enough, I had thought about the Freebird thing for myself as the fabulous Florida Freebird when I was just starting to put up the ring and one of the reasons or the main reasons why is like I was putting up the ring and I'd see a lot of the same people at the wrestling matches that I would see at the concerts I would go to. And I knew that there was a marriage, but I knew that they weren't shooting for the young demograph. Back in the territory days, they were happy with what they had. If the place popped, fine. As long as it popped under their rules and the way they envisioned the business.

12:32The Undertaker:And they didn't envision marketing to a younger crowd and having that rollover. Because if they like it, then they'll teach their kids to like it. And they'll teach their kids, yada, yada, yada. So then I thought about music. And I love Skinner. I love the song Freebird. And I thought that would work. Then when I met Terry, right away I changed my objectives to a certain degree. Because I said, well, I've got to hitch my ass up to his wagon. because I felt that I would make it, but wherever I was going to make it, however I was going to make it, it happened a lot quicker if I had Terry Gordy with me.

13:12The Undertaker:Right. And so then it became the fabulous Freebirds. Now, it took— How did y 'all meet? I'm sorry.

13:18Michael Hayes:Yeah. How did you and Terry meet?

13:20The Undertaker:We met because I was, as I said, Mississippi was running opposition to Watts. So I got booked over there as a job guy, and I was with Eddie Sullivan and Rip Tyler. There was like a little group that would come from Pensacola to go over and work the Mississippi place, and somebody didn't show up. So Frankie Cain booked me to be somebody's partner and to do an interview on TV because we do interviews after the show at the local TV station. And I hit it pretty good for a baby face, you know, young teenager promo. And they just kept bringing me back. And Frankie liked me. So I met Terry at the TV tapings.

14:01The Undertaker:We hit it right off because we're two teenagers in a man's world. You know, we're the only two that's got anything in common. Because everybody else there was in the twilight of their career and, you know, on their way out. And we just hit it off. and it took me forever to talk Frankie into letting me turn Terry heel because he was the prodigy. He was the prodigal son that he built, a 16-year-old good old farm boy, country baby-faced champion. And it had played out for about two years. And I said, let me turn him heel, and we'll start drawing you money. And we did, and then I had discrepancy over a payoff, and they threw my punk card down and said, well, you don't like it.

14:45The Undertaker:You can leave. All right, I'm going to leave. So I went out to the car, and I sat there for like 45 minutes trying to figure out what are you going to do? Should you have done that? Should you have not done that? No, you had to do that. Terry finally comes out, closes the door. It's his car. He goes, well, where are we going, Michael? I said, what do you mean? I never thought he'd quit.

15:09Michael Hayes:Right.

15:09The Undertaker:Because he had a baby on the way, and he had a nice little guarantee at that time. Oh, wow. He said, if I told them they don't want you, they ain't got me. Let's go. Wow. And that was it. Then it took me another six months while we were in Goulas to talk them into using Freebird, the name. Oh, I don't know about rock and roll and wrestling, Michael. I said, well, Terry, what do we do on the way to the show? We get a six-pack. We burn a couple. We listen to live from the road, from Skitter, all the way down. Why wouldn't we do that? I just don't think music has a place in wrestling. I said, well, you watch.

15:46The Undertaker:And once I finally got him to admit, he was all in. Right. So when did the music?

15:53Michael Hayes:Because you and the Freebirds are the first one that I actually remember anyone using music.

16:02The Undertaker:Yeah, well, I mean, you know, Gorgeous George used it, Pomp and Circumstance before Andy Savage did. Jerry Lawler used it for big shows. And some people would occasionally. We were the first to ever do it as a full-time gig. Right, right, right. And we tried to do it for Nick Goulas. I had a meeting with him, and long story short, he just didn't get it because I asked him, when you rent the building, do you get the sound system and the spotlights that all come in your package? Yeah, they do, boy. Why? I said, well, I'd like to use them to do this and play this song. And he just looked at Tom Ernesto and said, they're on them marijuana pills.

16:41Michael Hayes:Marijuana pills.

16:42The Undertaker:Yeah, in 78. And I said, no, we smoke it. I said, but if you ever find them pills, please give me a call. It was Jerry Jarrett that went for it. And so we did it first there. And it was the first night against Lawler and Dundee. Did a little angle with them on TV. We didn't play it on TV. I was so happy to get it played live event. I never ever thought about TV. We didn't work out there. and I think this was all God sent.

17:13Michael Hayes:You look back when you get older, you see the steps.

17:16The Undertaker:You go, oh, my God, this was supposed to happen. Right. But we went to Watts, and when we showed up for Watts' TV, he goes, you got that record? I said, yes, sir. Well, let me have it. I said, okay. I said, what are you going to do with it? He said, I'm going to put it on the cart, and we're going to play it when you go to the ring. You're going to put it on TV in front of everybody? I felt so stupid at the time that I'd never thought, because I thought I knew everything and still do. But, yeah, that was eye-opening to see the bigger picture.

17:53Michael Hayes:And where was it? Because I still remember you coming out strutting to that song. It was for Watts, right?

18:02The Undertaker:Well, on TV, the first time we used Freebird was for Watts. The first time we did it in a house show live event was in Memphis. Um, but then we, you know, from, uh, from Watts on, then we went to Georgia championship wrestling. And, you know, that that's where we finally got to do the idea about, Hey, listen, don't put us coming out the bad guy door or the good guy door. Let us have our own dressing room and hit it with a spotlight when this part of the song hits. And we did that our first night there. They put the titles on us. We're in a triple threat before there were triple threats. first night in against Mr.

18:42The Undertaker:Wrestling Wanted To and the Assassins. Wow. Hated the gimmick. They hated everything. And when everybody hated everything, it was easy to really hate Michael because he was the prick. Terry was good. He was a good old boy. Buddy was nasty, so everybody just – When did Buddy come on now? Buddy came on. Watts brought him on about halfway through our first run. and Buck Robley was sick of working with us, especially me, because I wasn't good. But Bill knew there was heat there and maybe putting Michael on the floor would be better to build to a big blow-off match. And that's where Buddy was working there as a single and they put him with us so he could teach Terry tag team wrestling and preserve the heat on me.

19:32The Undertaker:And we weren't crazy about this idea at first. But Buddy ended up winning us over because at first we thought he was a stooge. You know, we thought, oh, you just clapped in on our gimmick.

19:44Michael Hayes:You know, back in the year. Yeah, old school mentality.

19:46The Undertaker:Yeah, old school mentality. But thank God he did because he extended our careers. You know, you couldn't beat Michael because of the heat. Damn sure can't beat Gordy because he's the hoss. Right. But Buddy could lose every time.

20:00Michael Hayes:Yeah.

20:00The Undertaker:Because he never – he was the greatest heel in the fact to me because he never gave you the satisfaction of being defeated. You know? He never was like, all right, you got me. He always come up bitching about something. You know, you never beat his spirit. And that's a lost art.

20:17Michael Hayes:It is a lost art.

20:17The Undertaker:A lot of things are a lost art.

20:19Michael Hayes:Yes. Well, we'll probably get into some of those. So that's what? That's 1980. 80.

20:29The Undertaker:Yeah. Yeah. And then we had the big run. We did the angle with Junk Hared Dog. And let me tell you something. When they turned Dog heel, the place exploded even before we did our angle. Just the fact that he was a baby face. Because I think the first time around he worked with Gino Hernandez. And Western Louisiana got Houston TV. So Gino was a bigger deal there. You know, New Orleans and stuff, they didn't know him as well. But, you know, he was a good first opponent for Dog. But, I mean, like the house doubled. And it was like, wow, got something here. But Robley, from Bill Watts' perspective and his story, wanted to trade me and Terry to Florida for Brian St.

21:22The Undertaker:John and Stan Lane. And Watts wouldn't let it happen. Wow. because he didn't like working with us. Right, right, right. So, which I never got that. I knew that Buck thought I was the shits. But, I mean, you know, I never got like, God hates you so much, I just want to get you out of the territory. Right. And glad he didn't. What an experience that was.

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22:24Michael Hayes:They're really light and the ear hook part rotates, so they actually stay in. I've worn them at the gym, on walks, doing stuff around the house. They don't fall out and they don't get uncomfortable. With 36 hours of battery life, I charge them maybe once a week. Honestly, they just become part of my daily routine. And right now is the perfect time to grab them because they're 15 % off. The Essential Open Earbuds are here to help you go for gold. Go to buyraycon.com slash six feet open to get 15 % off. Thanks Raycon for sponsoring. Your hair, you went, how long was it when you went with the blonde?

23:07Michael Hayes:Was that early on?

23:09The Undertaker:Oh yeah, yeah. When I first started wrestling, a good friend of mine, one of my best friends, Mike Leonard, his mother did hair and I wanted to go after the Farrah Fawcett look because I thought nobody's really doing anything with their hair and I had a decent head of hair at the time. But I stole my look with the beard and the dark beard, light hair, pretty much from Jimmy Valiant. I saw him because we did our TV in Greenwood, Mississippi, which is about 100 miles south of Memphis. So Memphis TV would come in there, and they did a vignette with him going in this black club, and they did a song Jimmy Hart had made for him.

23:47The Undertaker:And it's just he had that look, and I was, that's it. By the time, I didn't have a beard. I was probably 18 years old.

23:54Michael Hayes:Right.

23:55The Undertaker:But I just thought it was such a unique look from the typical just bleached blonde and bleached blonde beard. But the funny thing is, too, I also took some of that look from, I don't know if you'll remember this, there was a group called Black Oak, Arkansas, and their lead singer was named Jim Dandy. Jim Dandy. Yeah, Jim Dandy to the rescue. Okay, okay. But anyway, he had the long blonde hair and the pants with fur coming up to the knees. So I took a little bit. I stole from everybody. It's borrowing. Borrowing. Yeah, we borrow. Improving.

24:39Michael Hayes:There you go. Yeah. You can call it improving. Improving. Yeah, man.

24:47Michael Hayes:Was Dallas the biggest with the Von Ericks? Do you think that was the pinnacle of the free bird?

24:54The Undertaker:I think it was. You know, I only went out there for one shot. That didn't work out, did it? Gary Hart always said he was coming in and out with Kabuki. And, you know, we hit it off right away. And he was like, if you ever come to Dallas, I'd love to have you. And come to one of our Star Wars. and I always blew it off because nobody was ever saying, oh, screw this place, I'm going to Dallas. Right. I'm going to go make my money in Dallas because it was pretty much the graveyard for people on the twilight of their career. And everybody, because I remember hearing the stories, everybody was always making fun of Fritz for pushing his kids.

25:40Michael Hayes:Right.

25:41The Undertaker:It was a very smart move. I didn't even understand the territory system and you have to be able to trust who you're pushing because you don't want to give away your territory. This person or persons can hold you over a barrel if you don't trust who's on top. And it just kept evolving. But yeah, so I finally got fired or quit with Oli. We always got in arguments. And so nobody was calling me like they usually would when this would take place. And then I watched the TV, and they did this angle, said I had a broken leg. So everybody thought the angle was a shoot. So I called Gary, and I said, hey, I do have some free time.

26:26The Undertaker:He booked me. I went to San Antonio. Remember the old Hemisphere Arena? Had a hell of a house,$50 ,000 house back in that day. Which is huge. This is 82. It's huge. Huge. And when I saw that, I called Terry that night. I said, you need to give your notice in Georgia. Come out here. We're going to be friends with these Von Ericks for a couple months, turn on them, and print money. And that's kind of what happened. Pretty much what happened, didn't it? Yeah. But, you know, I learned real quick that Texas is its own country, or thinks it is at least. Yeah.

27:00Michael Hayes:We could be.

27:01The Undertaker:Yeah, you could be. I mean, easily. But the rules were different, and I learned that right away. But they love them Von Erick boys.

27:09Michael Hayes:It was crazy.

27:10The Undertaker:I mean, loved them. They went to Six Flags one time in Grapevine, and they had to close the park because they were just getting mobbed and it was just becoming dangerous. Yeah.

27:24The Undertaker:We were blessed to work with great baby faces. We got to work with Dog over. Got to work with Tommy Rich, Ted DiBiase in Georgia. Tommy was over. I mean, and he'll tell you about it. Come on, baby. Yeah. No, he was. No, he was over. And you know why he was over? Because he could sell. He could sell. He could bleed. That's the key. He could sell and bleed. Yep. Sign me up. Yeah, man. But, yeah, but, you know, working with Devon Ericks was a challenge, but it was really worth it.

27:57Michael Hayes:It really was. Yeah. I mean, at the time, though, did you even know that it was a challenge? Not really.

28:06The Undertaker:You know, I always worked stiff because I felt I had to because the gimmick I was doing was to get beat up. That was the end result. And so, well, how can I make that mean more for me getting beat up? Well, let me just beat you up through nefarious ways, usually for us, Terry or Buddy stops you because I couldn't. But once they stopped you, then I could get in there and whoop your ass.

28:31Michael Hayes:Simple formula. Great story, though. Yeah, simple formula.

28:36The Undertaker:But as it was evolving, one thing just led to another. and it just kept growing and growing, and then David died. Yeah. And then it started to change a lot.

28:50Michael Hayes:Yeah. Yeah.

28:52The Undertaker:It's a tragic, tragic story. I stayed in David's room the next time I went to Japan, the room he died in. Did you really? I had to. I had to. I remember Joe Higuchi, I think, the referee over there. He kept questioning me, you want to stay? I said, yes, I would like to stay. He died here. I know, Joe. That's why I want to stay here.

29:20Michael Hayes:How much do you draw? Because obviously the business has changed drastically. Drastically. Do you feel like you can still draw for creative now or producing matches now? Does it still work, some of the things that you were able to be successful doing back in the day?

29:46The Undertaker:It's kind of case-by-case basis. Sometimes you can use what used to work because it's so old it's new. Yeah, I agree with that. And pretty much people haven't seen it. But for the most part, I think the answer would be no because you don't have the same characters performing. They don't have the same mindset. You know, back when I started, and I don't have to tell you, you know wrestling had shady-ass characters. Shady. And that's putting it nicely. That was, yes. There were some really rough individuals. And when drugs started joining alcohol as the form of relieving yourself afterwards and letting your hair down, that made these shady sumbitches a lot more dangerous.

30:46But it also made them where they didn't care what happened.

30:51The Undertaker:So they were willing to take all these risks. Right. And sometimes unnecessarily. But today's athlete, we're so blessed because they're so much more intelligent. They don't make the same mistakes. You don't hear about people popping every week on drug tests.

31:09Michael Hayes:Right.

31:10The Undertaker:And you just don't hear them getting in bar fights. Back in our day, if you didn't get in a bar fight once a year, it's like, what happened to him? Yeah, he's got soft, right? Yeah. He's probably not going to draw anymore. Well, you didn't get in a bar fight this year. So I don't know that they could adapt to that mindset.

31:31Michael Hayes:Right. Yeah. Does that make sense? No, it makes a lot of sense. No, it really does. There was just a different kind of edginess to the guys. Well, your heels were heels. Yes. Because they were. That's who they were. That's who they were in real life. They were assholes. Yeah.

31:52The Undertaker:And, you know, most of the talent today, that doesn't live inside them.

31:58Michael Hayes:Right. They're good people. Yes, they are good people.

32:01The Undertaker:They are really good people, and we're very lucky to have good business people now that we put on top. Back in the day, I would dare to say maybe 15 % to 20 % of them would have made it back in that day. Yeah.

32:20Michael Hayes:It wasn't a talent thing.

32:22The Undertaker:It had nothing to do with their talent. It would have been a lifestyle. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

32:29Michael Hayes:I doubt that there would be publicly traded companies and these big companies betting and investing in, you know, the guys that were running around back then. It wouldn't be probably the wisest business decision.

32:45The Undertaker:No, not unless you're just really into criminals.

32:51Michael Hayes:I wish I could say you were kidding. No, I'm not. Yeah. No, it was definitely a different era. It is – I wish there was some way to kind of combine the edginess of the old school with the professional athlete of today. Yeah. It would be phenomenal.

33:10The Undertaker:It would.

33:11Michael Hayes:Yeah.

33:11The Undertaker:But it's just not in their nature. No, it's not. And you couldn't get in the business if you didn't either develop that as part of your nature or you didn't come in with it.

33:22Michael Hayes:Right.

33:24The Undertaker:And also, I was thinking about this on the way here. It used to be such an accomplishment just to get in and become a professional wrestler.

33:34Michael Hayes:Right.

33:34The Undertaker:Because it was so mafiosa. Right? And if you dared to say anything, your health was definitely in question. Could be your life. Yeah. Could be your life. I don't see anybody going to the lengths to protect the business like that anymore. Because they don't need to. It's appreciated now for its art form. Back then, I'm used to being hated. Everybody hated me before I got in wrestling. And one of the reasons why is because I love professional wrestling and I wasn't scared to talk about it.

34:12Michael Hayes:Right. That's that weird guy over by the smoking tree.

34:14The Undertaker:He likes that wrestling, that fake shit.

34:19Michael Hayes:Worked out all right for you, though?

34:20The Undertaker:Yeah, I'm doing okay. How do you, I mean. Speaking of working out, listen, you and Michelle just hang in there. One day you guys are going to make it. Okay? You just keep plugging away. We'll try, man. We put our nose to the grindstone every day,

34:39Michael Hayes:and we really put a lot of thought into this. But no, we're doing all right. We're getting by. Yeah. Cold days, big goals, no time to cook? Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed by dieticians and crafted by chefs. You can eat well without the planning or cooking. Factor is perfect for my February routine because they have quality, functional ingredients including lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole food ingredients, and healthy fats. There's no refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils. These are meals that fit your goals and schedule. Healthier eating, calorie management, and more protein.

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36:15Michael Hayes:How long? So you said 77? Yeah.

36:20The Undertaker:77 would be when I first started refereeing. I was horrible. And I mean, horrible. And doing, you know, like one taping, you know, they were only hour shows back then. And one taping in the first half hour, I think I did a job for Mike York, the Alaskan, and got color and under a mask. And then in the second half hour, I came back as me and did a job for somebody else. Wow. All right, man. Yeah. So you're a hell of a job guy. And got paid. Yeah, it's a great job guy. And got paid the same amount of money.

37:01Michael Hayes:There you go, man. Yeah. So I was going to why I asked you. So what? 45. How many? Do the math.

37:12The Undertaker:I guess technically it'll be 50 years come 27. 50 years.

37:17Michael Hayes:50 years. How do you stay so motivated to be creative? Just going through from what we've already discussed, from where you start to where the business is now, and you're still such a vital part of the industry, and obviously you're a vital part of my career and my development and the matches we had, But how do you stay so motivated to be creative? Because, I mean, you're the top dog producer.

37:58The Undertaker:Well, I think first and foremost is because I'm more in love with the business than I ever have been. Really?

38:05Michael Hayes:Yeah.

38:06The Undertaker:And I realized a couple years ago, like I started to talk about, that everything that I've done in my life has led me to where I'm at. And it wasn't me that was making those choices. It was God. And when I finally got on board with that, well, if he wants this, then it's got to be good.

38:30The Undertaker:And, you know, I don't get a lot of the ideas I get by myself. I don't. I've said this before. I feel God loves wrestling because I get some ideas out of nowhere sometimes, or more importantly, I get a no, which almost sounds like Vince. Well, that's what I'm saying. It was like, is that God or is that Vince? I don't know which one that is. But I guess the challenge of doing it and trying to keep everything interesting is a major driving force for me. I think that's probably why I've been divorced twice is because wrestling was number one. And I finally have come to realize that and admit that.

39:18And I don't know.

39:21The Undertaker:I can't. Sometimes now I look back and I go, God, how hard could it have been on both of them to realize they weren't number one, they were number two? Didn't mean anything to me because it's worked fine for me because that's how I like life.

39:35Michael Hayes:Right.

39:36The Undertaker:So I really am trying to enjoy every moment more than I did. Now, that's not to say that I didn't enjoy moments.

39:46Michael Hayes:Oh, you enjoyed your moments. Don't get fooled there.

39:50The Undertaker:He enjoyed his moments. But I'm trying to enjoy it in a better way. I'm almost 17 months now without a drink. Wow.

40:00Michael Hayes:Congratulations. Thank you.

40:04The Undertaker:that's made a world of difference for me. I was worried at first that I would lose some of my creativity because a lot of it came when I was drinking or high or both.

40:13Michael Hayes:I don't think a lot of people, not to cut you off, a lot of people don't understand how that driving down the road, having a few from town to town, are probably some of the greatest creative sessions. They are. They were.

40:27The Undertaker:I mean, like, you know, we would always analyze our match and what the upcoming promos would be. And, you know, if it was a TV day, watching the thing back and where we could have improved. But, yeah, it was a nonstop class of going over what you did and how it could be better and how you're going to make it better next time.

40:48Michael Hayes:Right.

40:49The Undertaker:Now, that is not to, at least I'm not trying to degrade their commitment to today's athlete. because I'll tell you what, every one of them during the pandemic, especially in 2020, that went out and performed with no people there, they got my attention and they got my approval. I saw Jimmy Uso tear his ACL five minutes into the ladder match in 2020 at the Performance Center and go another 25 minutes with no people. And I mean, any wrestler from any organization back in that time that wrestled with no people, my hat's off to them.

41:34Michael Hayes:Huge. You know what? I feel because of the effort that WWE made during the pandemic when there was nobody in, you know, no one was able to go and do anything. that I think the effort that WWE did to produce television and content has a large part to do with how successful the product is now. Yep. Because I think the people really took time to appreciate not only the art, but the effort that it took for those shows to happen. And I think this is a continuation of the momentum that was created during COVID. I don't know. Yeah, I totally see that point.

42:23The Undertaker:But, I mean, we all know, we know firsthand how much it hurts. You just get caught up in it and the adrenaline gets going, and then you're, you know, on to the next town and having a couple of libations and, you know, whatever it takes to feel better or not feel as bad.

42:48But I just can't imagine how much that hurt with no people there.

42:56The Undertaker:People are the most driving force to me of your adrenaline and your motivation when you're working. You know? I mean, back in my day, and probably in the beginning of your days, you had no trainers. You took an ace bandage, wrapped up your knee as tight as you could. If you had a roll of tape, you were doing better than most. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and sometimes you did things or took some things to get you through. And, you know, like back in the 80s, come on, it wasn't just say no. It was just say yes. Right. It's culture. Culture. Yeah.

43:35But I don't know.

43:36The Undertaker:I just, that takes balls to wrestle like that in front of no people.

43:45Michael Hayes:No, it does. And it was amazing because, you know, obviously I've wrestled in non-COVID times. I've wrestled in houses with not a lot of people there. It's tough, man. And it's tough to be on the second end or the second day of a double shot. And, you know, you're sitting out there trying to get 1 ,500 people to get excited. And all you want to do is just be finished. And it takes – it's tough. I can't imagine, you know. The screens must have been an incredible welcome. Like, at least there's some faces here.

44:26The Undertaker:They were. And props to Vince and Kevin and Jason Robinson for developing that as quick as they did. I'll never forget when we did our last show in South Florida at college there. And now we were going back to arenas and audiences.

44:44Michael Hayes:And Vince was walking up the ramp. And I said, boss, wait a second.

44:48The Undertaker:I got up the ramp and I said, I just want to thank you for doing this. And he just looked at me and goes, Michael, I had no choice. and he storms off. I'm like, well, f*** me.

45:02Michael Hayes:He knew exactly what you meant.

45:04The Undertaker:He knew what I meant, but he just couldn't take the compliment.

45:07Michael Hayes:No, he can't. He can't. And everyone wanted to get emotional. No, he runs. Yeah, yeah. I knew as soon as you said that, exactly what he was doing. He was not going to get teary-eyed.

45:18The Undertaker:But I thought, well, it's just me and him right here, okay? And everybody had gone on break. Yeah.

45:25Michael Hayes:Not a chance. WWE World returns to Las Vegas this April 16th through 20th, and it's the can't-miss destination during WrestleMania week. WWE World brings the WWE universe closer than ever to the superstars, legends, and iconic moments that define WWE with immersive exhibits, exclusive merchandise, and experiences you won't find anywhere else. See superstars like Drew McIntyre, Liv Morgan, Jay Uso, Dominic Mysterio, Tiffany Stratton, with even more appearances still to come. Tickets are on sale now at WWEworld.com. Fans of our show can save 10 % with promo code 6feet10. What year did you and I really start working together?

46:17Michael Hayes:Do you remember which mania it was? I mean, obviously, we did a lot of TVs and everything, but everything kind of goes by manias, I think. Yeah.

46:25The Undertaker:I think we started right before you and Randy. Yeah. It was right around that time. Because I had done some of your matches, and I remember I did the one with Brock that was in California that ended up in the DQ. and then there was some sentiment that you should have put them over instead of letting them kill you after. And we went to the Hell in a Cell in Little Rock.

46:57Michael Hayes:Right.

46:58The Undertaker:And I could tell that you were like resigned to the fact you were going to do what everybody wanted you to do, but it was like I don't think I made that bad of a decision. Right. And for some reason, I took that opening and wrote the whole match out. And I remember sometimes I would give that to you, and you'd take what you liked, and you'd discard what you didn't. And that day you just went, yep, looks good to me. And I said, okay, he just wants to get through this one.

47:30Michael Hayes:And it actually turned out. It turned out really good. Yeah, it turned out really good once we got into it. Yeah. The broken hand and the hell in a cell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when you had Haven by the tie pulling him in. No, that actually really turned into a really good Hell in a Cell match.

47:46The Undertaker:It was. Yeah. What year was that? That was what, 203, 204?

47:53Michael Hayes:Yeah.

47:54The Undertaker:Around that area, that time?

47:56Michael Hayes:Yeah, and then we went all the way to.

48:01The Undertaker:All the way to. All the way to the end. All the way to the end. All the way to the end.

48:05Michael Hayes:Yeah, because you were there for the boneyard too, right?

48:08The Undertaker:Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was toward the end there, the last four or five years, for some reason every year, Vince would be like,

48:17Michael Hayes:well, we're going to break the streak this year.

48:22The Undertaker:Sir, can I ask you something? Yeah. Why? Why not? Nothing lasts forever. This could. And I'll remember the time that he wanted Edge to break the streak. And I went to Edge and I said, hey, listen, just so you know, he's thinking about you breaking the streak. And you know Adam, he's a great freaking guy, right? But if he gets mad, he gets mad. He's got a temper. And he was like, he got mad. No, no way. I'm not doing that. You can tell him to go to hell. I will not break the streak. No, no. I said, I'm just the messenger, dude. But, yeah, he, I don't know. because I don't know if he was mad because it was becoming bigger than anything else he'd put on the card for WrestleMania.

49:14The Undertaker:It definitely got higher than any title match.

49:17Michael Hayes:Yeah. And I don't know.

49:24The Undertaker:He just had that in mind. And it all took off with you and Sean. It was a nice little streak. It was going well. And then they booked you and Sean. And if you'll remember, we tried to start that thing up in San Antone, in the Royal Rumble, when you eliminated Sean. And I remember that you guys wanted to go like about 10 to 15 minutes after it came down to you two. And Vince was like, God, two baby faces. Who cares about that? And you guys tore the frigging house down. But then he wouldn't let it happen that year, so he went for it the next year. And I think it was like a throwaway at first. maybe not a throw away but it's like it wasn't supposed to be what it was it was never supposed to be what it was and i remember that we got assignments i think it was the first year that we got assignments to each story and me and dave kapoor were assigned to that story we had so much fun with it and you know i'm sure you remember we're sitting there and we're doing the first rehearsal, ring rehearsal.

50:29The Undertaker:And you're lacing your boots and you go, hey, P.S., when are we on? I thought, I don't really want to answer that right now before the rehearsal even starts, so I kind of just kind of blew you off. Yeah, you go, Michael, when are we on? You're on fifth. How many matches are after us? about four or five or six.

51:03The Undertaker:You stopped lacing your boots. You looked over at Sean. This just went to a new level. I don't think it was then, but you asked, well, how much time do we have?

51:18Michael Hayes:30.

51:19The Undertaker:Good luck with that.

51:21Michael Hayes:No, no, no. It was 25 maybe? It was like in the 15, 20. And I was like, yeah, I can't get to the ring in 15 minutes.

51:34The Undertaker:But that match, it was just, and I know I got on you guys' nerves, you know, because you guys would say something, and I would think about it and try to step back and look at it in a different perspective. Hey, maybe that works even better this way. But it was art. I got lost in it. Right. And I knew the finish. and you really started rooting for Sean to break the streak. Right. And I knew the streak wasn't going to get broke, but every false finish. And what was funny was the big kick out where you had the exasperation on your face. Sean didn't even see that, did he? No. He didn't even know. And, I mean, it just grew.

52:14The Undertaker:And I'll never forget, you guys were about 25 in, and Jerry Briscoe is going apeshit because he's doing gorilla. Right, he's doing times. He's doing timing.

52:21Michael Hayes:Yeah.

52:21The Undertaker:And he looks at me and goes, Michael, how much longer they got? And Vince just comes over and goes, let them go.

52:32The Undertaker:Vince said, let them go. Let them go. And you guys want another 20, 30 minutes. You could have gone longer. Oh, it could have been, yeah. You really, I mean, that is the art that this business is. Because everybody in the building, they come in, they want to believe that these two individuals or four, whatever it may be, really don't like each other. Everybody wants to see a good slaughter knocker, knock down, throw out fight. And then we have to go to the trouble of suspending their disbelief to make them believe that. And you guys, I don't think they ever thought you guys hated each other, but man, they thought Sean has a chance of doing this.

53:17Yeah.

53:17Michael Hayes:No. No, Sean and I had such a storied history anyway. I mean, I don't ever remember obviously having a bad match with Sean, but all of our matches forever had always been just stellar. Yes. And then we end up, both of us, on the backside of our careers and just, well, they threw us together. Let's let them roll. Okay, well, we're going to disrespect them on the way, too, and put them on fifth, okay. I don't think Sean's mindset and my mindset, I don't understand what they thought would have changed. We were both such competitive and competitors that we weren't going to supposed to take that as an insult.

54:14Michael Hayes:Yeah. It was just like, are you kidding me? That may be the absolute best in-ring performer of all time, and I had a pretty fair career too.

54:25The Undertaker:It's still the greatest match in WrestleMania history in my view. And, yes, I'm partial, and I'm proud to be partial. I've been able to produce a lot of good moments. I've been producing WrestleMania events since like early 2000s. But that's the one. And like I said, I've had Roman's matches for years. And he's one of the ones that has the old school in him. He could have gone through a riot. Yeah. He's got an edge to him. He's got an edge to him. It took a while. It took a while. Yeah. It did take a while. He always wanted to be that tribal chief. He just wasn't allowed to be. You know what I mean?

55:16The Undertaker:And he didn't know how to speak up for himself at the time. But he's doing okay.

55:21Michael Hayes:He's doing all right for himself. I think he's going to be okay. So obviously, again, all the matches last, what, 15 years of my career,

55:34The Undertaker:probably the 10?

55:35Michael Hayes:Yeah.

55:39Michael Hayes:breaking the streak when it actually, he'd actually did pull the trigger on breaking the streak. You did, I don't think you knew. I didn't know. Yeah. And we'd gone back and forth. He wavered the whole week. Yeah.

55:53The Undertaker:And I had talked to him and I felt at the time I had him and okay, we're not breaking the streak. And then something happened. and he was wavering earlier in the day, and I talked to him again, and then I was under the impression that you were going over. Right. And if you'll remember, we were at the practice ring, and you guys were in the turnbuckle or something, and I said, yeah, here's where I was thinking you could do this, this, and that, and that, and you had just had this look. And I looked at you, and you go, you don't know, do you? And I go, no, what? Brock's going over. And at that point, there was no more arguing.

56:35The Undertaker:You know, what were we? I think doors had already opened.

56:38Michael Hayes:Yeah, it was late. It was late. It was a late, late decision.

56:42The Undertaker:And at that point, it was like, well, okay. And, you know, on one hand, you go, well, if anybody was going to break it, Brock Lesnar. But he didn't need it.

56:53Michael Hayes:Right.

56:53The Undertaker:He was a made man.

56:54Michael Hayes:Right.

56:54The Undertaker:You know, somebody like Roman at that time in his career. There were other people that it may have benefited more. I personally think it should have never been broken. and just gone down as just one of those things. And who knows, if it never was broken, you may still be making a yearly appearance.

57:15Michael Hayes:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would have walked. I would have walked. No, I would have probably walked. If he hadn't have broken, I would have probably walked a lot sooner even than I did, I think.

57:30The Undertaker:Yeah.

57:31Michael Hayes:Yeah, because I knew physically I was, I wasn't where I should be from my personal. I think I would have had grace from the equity I'd built up through the years. I would have had grace with a lot of our audience. But for me personally, I was chasing the dragon. I was looking for that one match to go and hang my hat on and said, that's it, bang. Like Sean had, right? Sean had the perfect ending. He went to those last two matches we had. Well, we'll forget about Saudi and that catastrophe.

58:09The Undertaker:I watched that about a year and a half ago, and I just laughed through the whole thing. You can't help it.

58:14Michael Hayes:Now. Now you can't. It was very serious that day and that night. But now it's like, I need to laugh about something. Who has on their bingo card that Shawn Michaels, Triple H, which Kane and Undertaker have a complete bomb. Everything that could go wrong was going to go wrong. And it did. And it did.

58:38The Undertaker:It was snake bit. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, it wasn't easy to put together, if you recall. We were going back and forth, back and forth on things. And I remember this was early into our trips to Saudi. And we were on a call with Vince, or at least I was on the call. Everybody else was there with him. And, you know, I need something new. They want new stuff, stuff we've never seen. I said, well, I don't think we've ever seen the Brothers of Destruction against DX. God, I love it. I said, good luck getting Sean to come out of retirement. I can do that. And he did. He did it. I don't know how he did it.

59:15The Undertaker:I love it. Sean came back through Gorilla. Oh, my gosh. That's it. Never again.

59:23Michael Hayes:It was so bad. I felt so bad. I felt worse for him. Even Paul, who had ripped his peck, I think, or bicep. What did he tell us? It was his peck. Because he was giving left-handed chops. Yeah, so I mean. He ripped his peck on the Harley bump, right? Yeah, right out of the get-go. Yeah. That happened right out of the, that was the first, that was the first brick. First spot. Yeah, that was the first brick that fell. And again, his mask falling off. And then the wig. Oh, gosh. It was so bad. And that great moonsault. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. He used to jump further. I had engaged for 15 years ago. Oh, my gosh.

1:00:08Michael Hayes:But, yeah, it's fun to watch now. But, man, it was not a fun night. Let me ask you something.

1:00:16The Undertaker:Boneyard match.

1:00:19Michael Hayes:you knew then it was time didn't you it it hit me that in during the filming of it i think it was like three i don't know three four in the morning yeah we were still out there and and i could feel my body starting to shut down like even the adrenaline because i thought i mean i thought we were having a you know when we were doing things it was like this is this is clicking this This is good. But like when we'd have to relight or move things around, I could feel my body, like the adrenaline, the adrenaline always carried me through all my injuries. Sure. Like the eyes, the back, all of it, like adrenaline just like, okay, it's time to go hit the adrenaline switch and we get through it.

1:01:08Michael Hayes:And it was just like, it was, man, I was just like, I'm having a hard time moving. by the time we got to the end of it. And I felt bagged because like AJ had a couple other things he wanted to do. And I was like, I don't know that I can physically, I mean, my head, I'm not saying I couldn't bring myself to say it out loud, but in my head, I'm like, I don't know that I can physically do that. And I sure am not going to, I'm not going to hurt, you know, I'm going to do something that's going to hurt him or jeopardize that. But yeah, it was, it was probably three, four in the morning. And I was like, man, this is it.

1:01:38Michael Hayes:This is, this is, and that was it. It turned out great. No, I'm really happy with it. Obviously, I would have loved to have worked with AJ in a wrestling ring. I'll bet. I mean, and I think maybe without COVID hitting and if I'd have been able to train and do everything, I think maybe we could have. But it worked out the way it was supposed to. I mean, it encapsulated my whole career, and I thought it was great.

1:02:09The Undertaker:If people would have seen what that place looked like before. Oh, the day before? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, because I remember pulling up with trips, and I was just like, oh, my God. But him, he's seeing things. Yeah. Oh, we can do this. We can put the symbol up there. I mean, his mind is amazing.

1:02:33Michael Hayes:Yeah, it had to have been for that one. For that one. Because what it turned into was spectacular.

1:02:39The Undertaker:In 24 hours. When I rolled up on, I was like, are you kidding me?

1:02:46Michael Hayes:I mean, I'm pretty sure there's a field somewhere closer than where I'm staying because that was like 45, 50 minutes outside of Orlando. Like, I'm sure we could have found a field closer. I mean, this is nothing. And then, man, what they turned it into. Yeah.

1:03:02The Undertaker:Well, those people that lived there, they were props people for Disney, too. So they knew what they were doing.

1:03:07Michael Hayes:Yeah, no, it turned into an amazing shot. But it was.

1:03:15The Undertaker:So you got a new protege now too, huh? Bob Roode?

1:03:20Michael Hayes:Yeah.

1:03:20The Undertaker:Yeah, bad mood Bobby Roode. He is doing really well.

1:03:25Michael Hayes:Yeah.

1:03:25The Undertaker:I was, well, if you remember the first Hunter Taker match in Atlanta at WrestleMania, We sat out there all day and couldn't find out what the story was. We didn't have it.

1:03:39Michael Hayes:Doors were open and we didn't have it.

1:03:41The Undertaker:Yeah. And then all of a sudden it clicked. He can't put you away. And you end up winning. But he stands and you can't walk out.

1:03:53Michael Hayes:You remember who hated that?

1:03:55The Undertaker:Oh, Vince. God dang.

1:03:58Michael Hayes:God damn, my undertaker walks out.

1:04:01The Undertaker:Yeah. And then he got mad. So then once he acquiesced to do that, well, you can't get the card out of here. And it made us move gorilla and do all this stuff. I remember following him in his dressing room, and I was like, okay, what's the problem? Why are you doing this to me on WrestleMania Day? We're going to do this. It's going to be great. And it was fantastic. It was chapter three in a four-chapter story. but man we had nothing well you know what we got hung up on that Sean had to be a part of it and he did not want Sean a part of it if you'll remember because you had just retired Sean the year before and we wanted Sean to have a spot in there or something and he was dead set against it and you know what he's probably right in hindsight because bringing Sean back as the referee,

1:05:00Michael Hayes:which we didn't know at that time for the next chapter.

1:05:07The Undertaker:But anyway, Trips comes back, and he says to me, he says, you're our Pat Patterson, and that meant everything in the world to me. So he brings this back to me about two, three years ago, and he goes, so if you're my Pat Patterson, I need you to make him Michael.

1:05:30Michael Hayes:He was talking about Bobby.

1:05:31The Undertaker:Talking about Bobby Roode. And I went, okay, all right, if that's what you want, that's what I'll do. And he's answered the call, man. One of the greatest things about Bobby is that he's never been afraid to jump in there and give his opinion and pretty much take on a leader role. Because I think all of us in some form or fashion And I know all of us need to be produced, but we all kind of look for a leader. You know what I mean? Or a guidance, if you will. And Bobby has stepped right in there and taken that role. I think if there's anything that Bobby needs to continue to learn, It's that if they tell you to do something, you figure out how to do it.

1:06:24The Undertaker:You don't tell them why it can't work. You figure out how it can work. And I learned that from Vince early on. Vince, I don't think that'll work because of this, this, and that. Michael, there's a million people out there who can tell me why it wouldn't work. Tell me how it will work. and that's easier said than done. Sure. That's the mindset because our business is so subjective. You can make anything work if you really put your mind to it. We all get tunnel vision into what we want. Sure, yeah. You know what I mean? But you can make it work.

1:06:59Michael Hayes:Yeah. And that's why he had you in the role that you were in. I think so.

1:07:04The Undertaker:It took a while to get his confidence and his trust. Well, you had some other. I had issues.

1:07:11Michael Hayes:But I think your mind and what you brought to the table helped get past the other issues because he saw the value in what you brought to the product.

1:07:23The Undertaker:Oh, I owe everything to Vince.

1:07:24Michael Hayes:He should have fired me three, four times over. I tried to get him to. I know. Everybody did. Just kidding. I'm going to leave that off here because I'm tired of putting that back on. Okay. Yeah, you lost your cube. I lost my cube, man. God, dog. I hate when I lose my cube. Yeah, that's a sign. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. But I know it's a different – it's probably a kinder, gentler working atmosphere.

1:07:49The Undertaker:Like I said, I wouldn't have what I have today if he didn't stick with me and teach me. Most everything I've learned, I've learned from him. You know, you've got all these podcasters and –

1:08:02Michael Hayes:Easy. All these – Wait a minute. I don't really put myself in that group.

1:08:06The Undertaker:I don't either. I don't either. But, you know, everybody's got an opinion, just like an asshole.

1:08:11Michael Hayes:Yes.

1:08:13The Undertaker:And, you know, a lot of those opinions are made, and I'm talking about fans as well, just based upon your thoughts and your feelings and what you like. They're not based really on business and the money and monies involved and where they go and what you do here and that. That's not where those opinions come from because nobody's got their money invested in it. So it's not going to affect them from a financial standpoint.

1:08:43Michael Hayes:Exactly.

1:08:44The Undertaker:I'll give you a perfect example. Me and the Eagles and their head coach, Nick Sirianni. Like every time I see him on the sideline with a look like he doesn't know what's going on, I'm like, why is this guy a head coach? This guy knows a million times more football than I do. But I'm just making my opinions based on what I see and what I want. I don't know what he knows about how to get this player to do this or what makes that player tick and all that. And it's the same thing. People make their opinions based upon what they want, not what they know.

1:09:17Michael Hayes:What they know, yeah. I think that's probably one of the most understated statements around because the amount of variables that go into every card, every booking, and every – it's funny. I'm just kind of learning all this stuff after all these years.

1:09:35The Undertaker:Yes, Mr. AAA. Oh, well, hey, El Jefe.

1:09:40Michael Hayes:According to Bruce. According to Bruce. Yeah, that's who he calls me now, El Jefe.

1:09:44The Undertaker:El Jefe.

1:09:45Michael Hayes:It's kind of growing on me. Okay. You want to try it?

1:09:48The Undertaker:No. No. Trying to quit.

1:09:52Michael Hayes:Man, I really appreciate you making some time for it. It's good to see you, for one. You don't call me anymore. You used me up and got everything out of the sponge, and now I'm not any use to you. So I got to bring you here to Texas and sit you down and have a conversation with you. Well, I appreciate you having me. I'm going to let you out of here in just a second, Michael. But you made some statements here recently. It's got quite a bit of furor amongst the wrestling world, and that was your comments about Chelsea Green. Like, how did you put it?

1:10:30The Undertaker:Her job is to get the— Her job is to make the Tiffany's and the Charlotte's. Now, I've talked to Netflix about this because when we did that interview, and I recall this specifically, that when we started the interview, the first thing I said was, Chelsea is as good or as talented and entertaining as anyone we have. But, of course, that never saw the light of day. That was on the cutting room floor because if you're going to make me a heel, that's the best way to do it to say she's not good enough. And that's not really what I was saying. I don't regret what I said because her role at the time I said that, and even right now, is not the top role.

1:11:19The Undertaker:It is to help make other people. And as you know, we all know that we're only as good as the people that help make us. Right. Now, with that said, if Chelsea caught fire because of this following and the support that she has, we'd go with that in a heartbeat. Look at Daniel Bryan. Look at Kofi Kingston. When they both caught fire, we went with it. Whether some people up top agreed with that or not, they went with it because that's what the people wanted. we're not there right now with Chelsea and quite frankly I feel just my opinion that the people that support Chelsea now if we started pushing her would fade because she was getting the push from the machine and if she's getting the push from the machine then she doesn't need my help because intricately I feel that the fan loves it when they know that their support makes a difference and can change a career.

1:12:30You take a look at NXT, especially back in the full sale days.

1:12:35The Undertaker:Those people knew that their support had power because it could change or make the start of someone's career. It's still that way to an extent at the Performance Center. And you see people get behind people that the office isn't getting behind because they feel that they could make a difference. They could make a change. Everybody wants that. Everybody wants their opinion to be valuable. But that's also the lore and why. Now, Chelsea is amazingly talented and amazingly entertaining. She can handle anything. But that's the role she's in right now.

1:13:18Michael Hayes:Not necessarily her fault.

1:13:19The Undertaker:No, not necessarily her fault. But to her credit, she knows her role, and she does it, and she plays it with a smile.

1:13:28Michael Hayes:I'll just say I'll put my two cents in. I think she's underutilized.

1:13:32The Undertaker:I agree.

1:13:33Michael Hayes:I think she, without a doubt, with just a hair more mean streak, I think she could be a top, top player. She has that thing, that it thing to her. She does have the it factor. She has the it factor, and I think there's a lot of great things coming for that young lady. I'm a big fan of hers. I am too, believe it or not. Yeah, I mean, can't tell, really. But, hey, there's certain organizations around that know how to use her. I mean, you got to go south of the border, you got to go south of the border. I'm just saying. No. I was just curious because that's got a lot of attention.

1:14:22The Undertaker:Yeah, it has, and it is what it is. I spoke what I felt to be the truth. All the truth I said was not out there. That's okay. I told you before. People have hated me since the beginning of time. And if you ask me a question, I'm going to try to tell you the truth. And that's the truth. And even with you saying that, I still fear that if we get behind her, it hurts a little bit of that rebel push that she now gets or support.

1:14:57Michael Hayes:It's going to be interesting to see how that pans out. Yep.

1:15:00The Undertaker:Yeah.

1:15:01Michael Hayes:So we got a segment we do on this show. We just started it. 2K26. Okay. I'm sorry you're not in it. Yeah. But there's 400 other people that you could be. And a large part of our audience, they love to book and be matchmakers. Sure. Right? That's part of the fantasy of the whole thing. Jamie Noble still does that with action figures, by the way. I didn't need to know that. I know. It bothers me, too. I didn't need to know that about Jamie. But so I'd like to ask, so you can take 400 characters from the past, from the present, maybe even the future, and you're going to book your match. Who you got?

1:16:03Michael Hayes:And for while you're thinking, okay, free bird style, It could be any kind of match. Bull rope. It could be no DQ, cage. You get to pick your match. You pick your step.

1:16:20The Undertaker:And you need to know this today. Yeah, I need to know right now.

1:16:28The Undertaker:Any place from anywhere.

1:16:34The Undertaker:Wow, that's a loaded question. It is. I think I would like to see Taker and Andre in a Hell in a Cell. Ooh. And me not be the producer. Where's your loyalty at? Oh, man. That's pretty good.

1:17:00Michael Hayes:That's actually one of mine. Really? If anybody I'd ever. You never got to work with him. I never got to work. His health was so bad by the time I got here. We didn't get a chance to work.

1:17:12The Undertaker:We got to work with him a couple times.

1:17:13Michael Hayes:Did you? Yeah. The first time I worked. He fired you, didn't he? He did not fire me. He did fire you. He did not fire me. Your first day in the company, he did not fire you. That's the story. I know that's the story.

1:17:24The Undertaker:It's not true. It's not true?

1:17:25Michael Hayes:Really? It's not true at all. It's not even close.

1:17:27The Undertaker:We had already been here almost two weeks. For some reason, we ended up, we were in Youngstown, Ohio, and I thought we were off. I wonder why so I had had probably somewhere between six and nine beers and I remember we pulled up to the high school and Terry I go what are we doing here Terry goes we're working working I was in no condition so we go in the dressing room Andre's there and he's playing his cards playing cribbage probably half a gallon of wine there half gone Terry and Buddy are literally holding me up Andre goes, he drunk. And just like in a comedy show, they both go, no, he's not.

1:18:16The Undertaker:And they let me go. Boom. I end up going out that night, sobered up a little bit, tried to go over the top rope like I did, toes hit the top rope, nosedive, all bad. But when we first went there, Terry never wanted to go. He was just falling in love with his second wife. and he really didn't want to leave Texas, but he really didn't care where we went. And really, Vince just wanted me for the record deal and to do the rock and wrestling thing. So it was on borrowed time to begin with. So anyway, we weren't quite making what we thought we should make. I think we were in Pittsburgh. Terry ends up sleeping on the grass outside in the Hojo's by the pool, and that was it.

1:19:06The Undertaker:We're going home. And I even remember Andre walked by us in the Pittsburgh airport, and we all hid behind a column so he didn't see us because that plane was going somewhere, and we were going home. But what happened was I stooged myself off. Vince didn't even know. And I told Vince, I'm sorry, I don't usually do that, this and that. And then we were on our way to Japan, and that was already booked. They knew when we came in. And on the way to Japan, I called to see what was going on with Dave Wolf. And he goes, I don't think he's going to keep you because Terry wasn't going back. And, well, Vince called me as soon as we left, and I didn't answer the phone for about a week.

1:19:48The Undertaker:That didn't help.

1:19:50Michael Hayes:Yeah, it doesn't usually help.

1:19:51The Undertaker:And then I did answer and agree to go back to some dates. Me and Buddy would finish out because that was the one thing about the free birds. As long as you had two, you could, you know, free birds were there. But on the way to Japan, George Scott got on the phone and said, He doesn't trust you. And I said, well, I told him I wouldn't do this again. I didn't get it.

1:20:10Michael Hayes:Really? Yeah, I said I won't do it. He didn't buy that at all. That's crazy.

1:20:14The Undertaker:Because it was a big deal. We had a$250 ,000 record deal with Elektra Records. But I blew that. And I paid the price. And it took me 11 years to get back to even get a job here. And then it probably took me another three to four to gain his trust. but we were fired not by Andre and it wasn't until after we first walked out.

1:20:41Michael Hayes:Oh, well, that's just a whole different story. That's disappointing. I heard that he fired you all. No, y 'all on the spot. Cause you were all, you were all up. No, I don't remember it that way. Oh, okay. Now it makes sense. Okay. You don't remember it that way. All right. Well, I'm going to, I'm sticking with Andre firing your ass. All right, that's fine. Either way, we were gone. You were gone one way or another, right?

1:21:07The Undertaker:We were gone and on to something else.

1:21:09Michael Hayes:I mean, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Never. All right. Hey, man, thank you. No, thank you. I appreciate you.

1:21:16The Undertaker:Seriously, thank you. I want you to know that I cherish our times together, especially back in the day, because we did a lot of good business.

1:21:26Michael Hayes:We made some magic, brother. Man, I lost you one time.

1:21:31The Undertaker:The Mark Henry match. It was the greatest build I'd ever seen, especially Mark was nailing everything. But you were gone. So it was all promos and this and that. And the match started out great, and then Mark forgot something, and he got flustered, and he forgot the whole match. And I remember, oh, my God, Taker's going to be so mad. And you just casually came back, walked through the curtain. I thought, I'm going to leave him alone. Then we never found you for like 20, 30 minutes. And you just, when you came back, you were okay. You had to decompress. It just happened.

1:22:07Michael Hayes:There's, I could show my ass or I could go decompress somewhere.

1:22:10The Undertaker:Yeah, and you decompressed.

1:22:12Michael Hayes:It's all good, brother.

1:22:14The Undertaker:You know, that was good for him, though, because he kept growing after that. Yes, he did. He did. Mark was one of the few late bloomers.

1:22:20Michael Hayes:Yes.

1:22:21The Undertaker:You know, he got it. And when he got it, he really came along.

1:22:25Michael Hayes:His retirement promo was still one of the great promos. Oh, my God, one of the greatest I've ever seen. Yeah, one of the best hooks ever. Well, if it had been for that ugly coat he was wearing, I would have bought it. All right, Free Bird. Thank you, brother.

1:22:40The Undertaker:Thank you.