Stephen A. Smith

20:16You know, networking takes energy. All of these things come with it. Just think about it for a second. You could sit around and talk with somebody. You could do a two-hour radio show. And you're just talking. And when it finishes, you're like this. And all the time. You understand? Because, you know, your brain is working overtime. You're doing what you need to do. You got all of these things, all of these challenges. Well, the interesting part was when I was out of shape, I used to collapse when my show was over. I mean, I used to need to lay down. I always had a headache. I needed to drink some water.

20:53I need to take some Tylenol. I need to do all of these different things. It's amazing what happens to you when you get yourself in some shape. And remember. And in terms of your energy. In terms of your energy. Like, you ready to roll. You ready to roll. You ready to keep on going. You know, and so don't get me wrong, but it's also interesting because better health educates you about the things that you're doing to not be healthy. Like, for example, if you are not in shape, you might not get enough sleep. But you might think there's a myriad of things that contributed to your absence of health.

21:31when you're healthy and then all of a sudden you wake up with a headache yeah damn I only got three hours sleep last night yeah damn I ate two I ate a bunch of sugar yesterday I shouldn't have done that damn I went out and I said I didn't do it I didn't feel like you know I've been behaving myself let me get a Hennessy and Coke let me get a drink you know and and instead of one I got two and then all of a sudden you got this little headache you know a little sinus or whatever You know, it's like those kind of things. Suddenly you're educated. Your body is better positioned to tell you what specifically you've done wrong in the moment.

22:08Whereas when you weren't in shape, it could have been something you did a month ago, a week ago, last night, 10 minutes ago. It could have been anything. But when you get healthier, your body helps identify what it is that you're doing. So if you ate too much sugar, your body going to tell you that. If you ate too much red meat, your body going to tell you that. If you drank enough water, your body's going to tell you that because, boom, all of a sudden you don't have those headaches. And it's like, all right, I thought I was dehydrated because of a lack of water. And then you learn, no, it's not a lack of water.

22:42It's a lack of sodium. If you got sodium in your water, all of a sudden that's healthier because it eradicates the headaches and the tension in your head. I just had a dental procedure. Guys, Dr. Gandhi's a specialist. 80 % of viruses, diseases, fungi, all of this other stuff emanates from the mouth. Because the mouth is always open. You're talking, you're chewing, you're drinking, whatever. And so they examined me and said, there's something wrong. And it looks like it's emanating from your mouth. It was something wrong with my tooth. I had these toothaches. This is after I got healthy. Why am I having these problems?

23:26They go up in there and they said years ago when they would give us root canals, they always put titanium screws up in there. Well, that's screws. That's metal. Right. Metal in your gums contaminates the gum. If it contaminates the gum, it contaminates your blood. Because it's in your mouth, it's leaking into your organs. And all of a sudden, I had all of these damn problems. Yeah, I have mercury fillings they had to take out. So all of a sudden, you know, you could go to the dentist for something as simple as a teeth cleaning. And your gums and all of this stuff is bleeding because you're inflamed.

24:02You're inflamed because nobody ever looked deeper. All of a sudden, so over the last 10 months, everybody was listening to my radio show. They're like, what's wrong with him? You know, I mean, why is he sniffling? Why is he always talking about there's a dental issue? Because over the last 10 months, I had to undo six root canals, redo them over, change the metal to ceramic so it's not metal and I'm not electrocuting myself in my mouth. I had to clean up two wisdom teeth areas and have implants inserted just to restore my health. It's like a 10-month process. And they said, now I have the mouth of a 10-year-old who brushes their teeth three times a day.

24:48So it's not going to be stuff leaking into my mouth. It's cut down on the inflammation. This kind of stuff isn't leaking into my organs and contaminating me. Suddenly, I don't feel as sick and stuff like that. All of those things are things I would have never paid attention to had I not gotten healthy. But because I got healthy, I said, I'm not supposed to feel like this because my health has improved so much. Why am I still feeling this way? Why am I not able to sleep? Why do I need sleep medication to fall out? Stuff like that. And also, it's very important to understand this. When you're not healthy, you make other people unhealthy.

25:26How so? Because you got attitude. Think about it. If you got a headache, you don't want to sit here talking to me. If you agitated and you stomach ache, chest pains or whatever, You don't feel like being around people. When you're not healthy, there's a lot of things that get in the way.

25:46Steph McMahon:You bring people down. You mean your energy is going to be affected? Because you can't get up. Yeah. You can't get up and be at peak condition. So because you can't do it, it affects your mood. It affects your temperament. And that affects the people around you. And that's what you got to look out for. So speaking about, you know, other people around you and the importance you talk about a lot, the importance of a team. Yeah. And before you found your professional team, somebody made a big impact on you. I think around fourth grade, somebody named Pooley. Yeah, my boy Pooley. That's one of my best friends.

26:29Steph McMahon:So can you can you tell us a little bit about Pooley? Pooley loves big women. You could put Beyonce in front of Pooley. Pooley's going to be like, what am I supposed to do with that? Literally. Because, I mean, y 'all ever saw the movie Norbit? And you remember Rasputia? That's Pooley. Okay. If you ain't 250, Pooley's looking at you like, what am I supposed to do with that? But so then in that case. He loves big women. The big women are not bringing him down. Oh, they lifting him up. They lifting him up. You know, that's Pooley right there. Is he the only man to ever turn down Beyonce, though?

27:08Huh?

27:08Steph McMahon:He's got to be the only man to ever turn down Beyonce. I said he would. He ain't never had the opportunity to. I said, if you put Beyonce in front of him, he'd look at her like, she's too small. You know, I mean, he loves himself some big woman, but he was my guy. I mean, he's always been my guy. He's still there in the city, one of my best friends in the world, love him to death. And he just slapped the living hell out of me one day. and slap some sense into me and talk to me about doubting myself, worrying about what other folks think. Do you. You understand? Because you're going to be great.

27:41Stop being a punk ass. You understand? March forward. Be willing to accept challenges. He told me that at a very young age and always had my back. I never learned how to fight, really, because Pooley would always jump in and fight for me. The second somebody came in my face, Pooley would snuff him. You know, that's how he was. That's how he still is. I just got my own bodyguard, though, so I'm good.

28:02Steph McMahon:And Pooley was a bus driver. He is a bus driver. He is a bus driver. That's right. And a mechanic. Or a mechanic. And then at your mom's services, Pooley actually showed up for you unexpectedly. He was driving the bus. With people on it. With people on the bus and pulled up across the street from the funeral home just to come to the funeral, or walk inside and they give me a hug. And I was like, this customer's there. They'll be all right. They'll be all right. So I made him get back on the bus, but that's my man. That's my guy. I mean, that's a true friend right there. Yeah, we've known each other since one year's old.

28:44One year's old. I mean, some of my friends, and I guess that's why, you know, it's like I try to be, you know, decent as I possibly can be, But I don't have this insatiable need for new friends and, you know, acceptance from other people, whatever. Be decent. Be a God-fearing individual. Be as honest as you could possibly be. But don't let other people's, you know, love or lack thereof, affection or lack thereof or whatever, define who you are and control you. I got enough friends. It's nice to have new friends. Please don't get me wrong. Anytime you meet good, decent people, you should want to get to know them.

29:23You should want them to be people that you don't mind saying hello to, communicating with or whatever. But I don't need it. Between my childhood buddies and my college buddies, I'm good. And your family. Of course, always family. But I got a boatload of love in my life. So I'm really, really good. You are blessed. I am very blessed.

29:41Steph McMahon:And you were blessed to grow up with such an amazing mom. Yes, she was the greatest. No doubt about it. Some of the best lessons she taught you were about being true to yourself. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Can you share one of those stories? Well. You know, when you. How about when I got fired from ESPN? Okay, I was going to go there. Yeah, I mean, when I got fired from ESPN in 2009 over that contract dispute, you know, I had to go home, lick my wounds because I loved my job. And, you know. And it was out of the blue for you. Well, I didn't expect to get let go. I didn't expect to go from having four jobs to having none.

30:19And I knew that I've always done good work because I'm very, very committed to my craft. And so I thought it was politics that had derailed me. I felt railroaded. I felt shafted. And I was very, very hurt. And I went home. But when I say I went home, I went to my mother's house where I grew up in Hollis, Queens. and she still had the bunk bed ready and my old room and all of that stuff. And I went and I laid in there and I didn't move. Other than having to go to the bathroom or get something to eat, I didn't move for two days. And mom finally came up to the room with breakfast. And my favorite from her was my bagels and my scrambled eggs and my hot tea.

31:07You know, I'm West Indian. My family's from the West Indies. So we like my hot tea, milk and honey and all. I just love it. And she came up and with a tray and on the tray, she had a handheld mirror on the tray. And I was like, what is this? And she was like, I left it there because I'm waiting for you to look at yourself. She said, it's real easy for you to blame everybody else for what happened. But what you do is I've heard you talking about your bosses. I heard how you felt about them. I heard how you would complain about work every day. She said, I'm not saying you deserve to be fired. What I'm saying, however, is would you want you working for you?

31:50That person that you were, would you want that kind of person like that working for you? You know the answer to that is no. So why would you, why were you that way? She says, I'm not saying your bosses were flawless, but they're your bosses. and you got a job to do and you were too busy focused on disliking them than doing your job and even though you still performed you became a headache and that's the real story in all of this so what you gonna do about it and it was the first time that I really really you know in terms of that situation that I really looked at myself and pointed the finger at myself and it turned out to be the greatest thing that happened to me because from that moment forward I paid no attention to what was done to me.

32:33And instead I paid attention to what I did to myself. And it was a big deal about accountability because once that happened, I've never had that issue again. The first thing, now the first thing I do is I always look at me. And so when it doesn't matter what kind of conflict I get in or whatever, I'm never one to say that person is totally wrong and I did nothing wrong. I always recognize what I could have done wrong too. And that's why I can have a conversation with anybody, no matter what our differences are, because I recognize that I could have done better myself. And that's what I focus on.

33:12And that's why, that's what makes me confident as a person, my willingness to look at me. And I think that's so admirable because I think

33:23Steph McMahon:that accountability and ownership are one of the toughest lessons to learn. But you share so much in your book, Straight Shooter, if you haven't read it, it's awesome. And if you want to listen to it, you do it in your own voice, which I love also. But you talk about these lessons, these very vulnerable moments. And I want to just kind of take everybody on a little journey, because you sort of sum it up at the end, because you've had some big, of course, very public, you know things happen and you said with you know and I'm not providing a ton of context but with the Ray Rice incident you said you learned you were embittered and alert it's one of the first big things that really happened and then with Aisha Curry you said your eyes were open and you were grateful and then the really the last big thing that that happened in that sort of vein with Otani was you were educated and fulfilled.

34:19Right.

34:20Steph McMahon:And you said you learned how to let those who needed to be heard be heard by your audience and the importance of listening. I mean that kind of growth is unusual and I think it's one of the key reasons for your success and who you are but those lessons are so hard to learn. Right. Can you share a little bit about how you do that, how you stay open, how you look yourself in the mirror? So the Ray Rice situation, when he beat up his girlfriend, his then-fiancee, I go on the air and, you know, I talk about we have to be, I said a lot of things. First thing I said is that, number one, I've never hit a woman.

35:07I was raised by women. And I think that any man that puts his hand on a woman should be ashamed of himself. and he should be dealt with, okay? Preferably by other men who show him or remind him what it's like to be hit since you want to put your hands on a woman. Let me remind you what it's going to be like. But in the process of explaining that, I also said be careful not to provoke. And that created a huge, huge uproar because there were people who had interpreted it as me saying that women bring it on themselves. And that's not what I meant. That's not what I said either. but I understood that if you are a woman, particularly one who has suffered from domestic violence, how you could interpret it that way.

35:49My thing was I had two daughters and so in having two daughters, four older sisters, 11 nieces, okay? 90 % of my relatives are women. My attitude is if you're around a no good bastard who would put his hands on a woman. My attitude is do what you can to get out that situation in that moment until help arrives. And that's how I meant it to come across. It did not come across that way. And because it did not come across that way, Disney informed me of the need to apologize for that. And then even after I apologized, it was the, they reprimanded me, they suspended me and that had never happened to me in my career.

36:33And so it was a devastating blow because I know that my name has no business ever being associated with domestic violence. But in the same breath, when they start giving you the numbers and they talk about victims of domestic violence and some of the trauma that they've experienced, et cetera, et cetera, that's an education because I didn't know that. And so who the hell am I to tell somebody how they're supposed to feel when they're experiencing something I never experienced? Right. And so that was a lesson. Aisha Curry, you know, when I sat up there and, you know, when she had gotten herself into a situation where there was a tension drawn to her and her company as she was entering the arena in Cleveland for an NBA finals game.

37:24the attention that she drew, I was like, hey, Savannah James, LeBron James' wife, first lady of the sport, never gets into any kind of situation. Never, because she understands that she's Mrs. Steph Curry, and that's how they're going to promote it. And when I said that, she spoke out and highlighted me comparing to black women and pitting them against one another. I did not believe I was doing that. I was like, wait a minute. We're all educated. Because that wasn't your intent. No, not at all. I was just saying, listen. And what I should have said was, Hillary Rodham Clinton at the time was running for the presidency.

38:10You know what, Bill? You got to watch everything you say and do because it's a reflection on her. Because that would have made my point better. Because I wasn't talking about a woman compared to a man. I was talking about whoever that person is in the eye of the storm, if you are an extension of them, you represent them and you have to guard them. But because I said it was her and I brought up Savannah James, it was taken that way. So that was an education in and of itself about watching what you say and how tough you come across and how women have these battles all the time of society trying to pit one against the other.

38:42Instead of owning what we do to contribute to the kind of difficult circumstances you all have to overcome. up and my sisters were like remember I got four of the sisters and they were like we know you we know that ain't what you meant but this is how it sounded right and because of that you said we know you and we know that's not who you are so correct it and I said done it's not a problem and then with the Shohei Otani thing when I talked about you know him being a major league baseball player and I knew he could speak English, but he didn't always do so. And sometimes he used an interpreter and stuff like that.

39:20When I spoke about it like that, there were people that were in an uproar, particularly the Asian community, because they talked about racial tropes that they've had to deal with, which I was completely unaware of. So the next day when the whole stuff was in an uproar, I not only invited our Major League Baseball insider Jeff Passan on to literally go off and rake me a new one and tell me how ignorant I came across but I also invited reporters from the Asian community to come on the show to educate me and our listeners about what it takes. Why? First Take has been the number one because of y 'all.

40:03First Take has been the number one morning show for 14 straight years. and if it wasn't for y 'all love and support and how you doing buddy if it wasn't for y 'all love and support and what you do for me the show wouldn't be as successful and I wouldn't be as successful so let me return the favor by making sure I use this as an opportunity to suck it up take it I put myself, me and my big mouth put myself in this situation let's educate me and the rest of the world about what the Asian community feels is insulting and denigrating and whatever so we can make sure none of us ever do it.

40:38Steph McMahon:So we can all learn together. And then we can all learn together. I know that as a black man, I don't go up to white folks, Hispanic folks, Asian folks, anybody else, and think that the second you do something, you're racist. I don't think like that. What I think is, you don't know better. So let me as a black man help you out and educate you about what we will find offensive. You understand? You as a white person, you as an Hispanic person, you might see black folks talking to one another that way. You can do that with us. You can't do it. We're going to take it differently. And we're going to absorb it.

41:10So, you know, I've had white individuals come up to me and say, why can't I use the N-word? Because you ain't us. You can't use it against us. And when they argue with me about it, I tell them, I won't argue. I tell you what, I want you to go to any hood in America by your damn self and say that.

41:26Steph McMahon:And see what happens. And see what happens. I say, end of discussion. Because you know you won't. Because you know you might not make it out of there. Which means you know that coming from you, it's offensive. So why do it? Right. Why even ask? So to me, the way that scenario that I pointed out is the same way I am. I don't intentionally offend any community. It's not just Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Jews, Catholics, whatever. Not just those communities. I don't offend a community of domestic violence victims. I don't offend a community of victims of various things. I'm sensitive to all of that because they experienced things I didn't.

42:07That's growth. And I think that's why ESPN has entrusted me because they know I don't just do it for me. I do it for everybody. And I also do it for them because I'm not just Stephen A. I'm Stephen A of ESPN. I represent myself. I represent them. I represent my family. I represent my mother, God rest her soul. I represent everybody. So I try to do the right thing. Am I perfect with it? Hell no. But I always strive to be. and anybody that I've worked for or I've worked with, they know that I'm never intentionally offensive. I'm not a guy that says, I don't give a damn whether you're offended or not.

42:47This is what I'm going to say and do. I don't operate that way. I never have, and I never will.

42:52Steph McMahon:You enjoy controversy and debate. I enjoy debate, sure. But you're never out to offend. Never. And there's a big difference. There's a difference. There's a difference. Can you explain the role that authenticity plays in that? It has to, you see, authenticity, that's not just about being real and true with the words and the actions that you disseminate. It's also being open. It's being open enough to say, hey, I've endured these experiences. I've went through this. Here's what you need to know and here's what you need to learn. because I've been there. I'm 58. So, you know, the earliest part of my life is over.

43:38I'm on the closer side to 100 than I am, you know, to 10 or whatever. I mean, it's like, and I get it. The point is, is that because of the experiences that I've had, a lot of times there are people getting offended when they're not realizing, no, I'm not trying to offend you. I'm trying to tell you this is what you've done so you don't do it again and you don't fall prey to it. You don't fall victim to it. That's all I'm trying to do because in 10 minutes people will move on. But when you hold on to it and you never address it and you spend so much energy trying to wiggle your way out of a situation or get out of a situation or not confront it, you end up giving life to it as opposed to ending it and moving on.

44:27I don't give people the license to emotionally blackmail me. Oh, you know what? We're going to talk about this. You go right ahead. You do what you got to do. I'm going to be here. I'm going to still walk. You can attack me. You can try to take me down. You can do whatever you want to do. I'm a model of consistency. I keep coming. I'm not going backwards. I'm going forward. Now, we can get over it and move forward together, or I can move forward by my damn self. But I'm not coming back. I'm not going backwards. I didn't do what I've done. I didn't put in all the work that I ever put in. I didn't accomplish what I've accomplished for myself, my family, and my loved ones to take steps back just because I want to be belligerent and petty.

45:12I'm not doing that. I'm just not.

45:15Steph McMahon:Well, that, yeah. That's not your goal. Never. Are you ready to hold WWE history in the palm of your hand? Topps is bringing you closer to the action than ever before with WWE Topps Now. Highlighting the biggest matches and milestones from WWE shows and PLEs throughout the year. Topps Now is enhancing the fan experience by connecting collectors to the superstars and spectacles that ignite their passion. Featuring stunning event-exclusive photography, each card is made for the moment. And for some lucky collectors, that moment could become the pull of a lifetime. Along with serial-numbered parallels, some Topps Now releases offer a chance at rare short prints, superstar autographs, and even pieces of the mat, gear, or other items used during the featured match.

46:11Steph McMahon:So which moments will you collect? With each card only available for a limited time, you won't want to wait to begin your Topps Now journey. Be sure to subscribe to the WWE Topps Now mailing list on Topps.com and follow Topps on all social media platforms so you never miss a single moment. So what are your goals now? Because throughout your career, your goals have changed, right? And you've talked about the importance of having a mission and taking action. Right. Never being complacent, never being stagnant. You have to keep moving forward. Right. We already talked about, you know, being on General Hospital.

46:58Steph McMahon:Yeah. Shredded. Right. You've accomplished this. Not totally shredded, but I'm getting it. Yeah. You wanted to do late night at one point in time. You've started your own production company. You said there's no reason why you couldn't be, from a model standpoint, the next Spike Lee or the next big producer. There's been talks of presidential runs and things like that. So in your mind right now, what is your mission? Well, I love working for ESPN, that's true, but I just have a strong desire to be great. I mean, I just. And how do you define great? I mean, to me, well, being number one comes with that.

47:45Honing your skills, perfecting them, and understanding that, and I often use this line, I am brilliant because I know I'm not. I steal from those who are. You, if I find you to be brilliant at something, I'm committed to learning. What is it that makes you so special? What's that ingredient? What's that ingredient? You know, I had a great, great relationship with the late, great Kobe Bryant. We were very tight, and I love him, and I miss him every day. And, you know, when we talk about my production company and stuff like that, I remember when I was hosting a show on ESPN2, quite frankly, back in 2005 and 2007.

48:25And I said to Kobe when he came on as a guest, I said, man, they're calling me. They're telling me I got the potential to be Oprah. And he said, F Oprah. Harper. He said it's insulting to call her Oprah. Harper. She owns her own studio. She owns her content. She's producing additional content on top of the content she's creating on her own show. This is just the beginning for her. She's a powerhouse. I don't want to hear about you being a host. You Stephen A. I expect more from you. That's what he said to me. And I never forgot it. and it's those kind of thoughts that go through my mind when I think about it now.

49:10I got a little acting bug. I never thought I'd have it, but I'm going to take acting lessons. I'm thinking about, I've already been greenlit for a pilot for ABC. You know, I've got other stuff in the can where I'm going to be working with, you know, the producer and director for Michael, Antoine Fuqua, who's one of my dear friends. We're going to be doing the project together. and there's other things that I got coming down the pike as well but overall it starts and stops with me from the standpoint that I never want to leave sports it's my bread and butter it's what gets me up in the morning it gets me excited I want to continue to do that I want I don't believe that I have a successful YouTube platform because I've been so focused on linear television and radio throughout my career, yes, I have a YouTube channel.

50:04Yes, I have over a million subscribers, but it should be more. It could be a lot better. But the issue is, is that there's certain things I'm allowed to do and I'm not allowed to do because of my contracts with ESPN and Sirius XM. And so contractually you get handicapped to some degree, but I got a lot of stuff that I'm working on and wait till you see what I'm coming with with the next couple of years. I'm going to be swinging for the fences in the next couple of years because I'm not going to have some of the constraints that I have now. So all of those things play a role. The presidential candidate stuff was really not about me.

50:36It's about the state of our country and what I think politicians on Capitol Hill has done to divide us. Listen, we have differences. Blacks, whites, Jewish folks, Catholics folks, you know, Muslims. We got differences in this country, no doubt about it. But I'm one of those people who strongly believes there's very little we can't overcome if we sit down and talk with one another. It's the politicians that have fed the division. Because in a binary system, we've got to vote one way or the other. So if they're scaring the living hell out of you on the right by saying you've got people invading this country, you understand, and you're white America and you were once 90 % of the population and now it's dipped to 57 % and you're wondering what the hell is going on because you don't see an industry that's feeding you jobs and allowing you to flourish inflation you know has really ravaged us to some degree you got all of these kind of things going on it's going to scare the living hell out of you as an american citizen if you're on the left you're sitting there you're hearing some of the rhetoric from maga and you you're hearing folks talk as if they wish that we were back into the 1930s or 40s that scares the living hell out of you but we're not taking into account the fact that you had a president in a previous administration that opened the borders and let 12 to 15 million people in.

51:56And so as a result of that, when you have those kind of issues, you can understand from both sides of the aisle while a level of discomfort exists. My point is we don't want to hear that from you politicians. We sent you up there to do a job. Work across the aisle. Work it out. Don't just be spewing venom at one another. And I tell this to people, especially from our community, all the time. You can't look. for example if you are black and you are talking about white america you can't say they ain't worth a damn i hate them they're racist and all of this other stuff oh but can you give me a job doesn't work that way with anybody if you're white you can't sit up there and say these black folks are a waste of time they're horrible they're this they're that bump them and then say why can't we get along no you can't it doesn't work that way you know you got to be willing to talk with one another, recognize that differences exist, but that there's nothing that can't be overcome if you're open-minded when you communicate with each other.

52:57And that's very, very important. Why is open-mindedness so important? Because you're not walking into a discussion with a closed mind thinking that under no circumstances can you be corrected. You have to always leave yourself open to the fact that the other side might have a better idea than you. It doesn't change you and who you are. It just means that you recognize, yo, that particular idea about that particular subject, their idea might have been better than the idea that I have. And because we saw politicians that weren't doing that, I got disgusted. And then with the Democratic side, which I am, you know, I'm an independent, but if I had to run, it would be as a Democrat.

53:38I'm looking at, you got the Democratic Socialist of America, and you have the moderate traditional Democrats. Well, that's a house divided. In our system, that's a house divided. That's not going to win you an election because the GOP ain't divided at the polls. They're showing up unified. If you're going to compete against them, you have to be unified. And I said, none of y 'all are bringing people together. Bump it. I'll do it. And I said that. And the world took off. They had me on Situation Room, World News Tonight. I mean, everybody's calling. I'm like, good Lord. I'm like, look, I like my life.

54:19I ain't giving up my money, you know, because according to FCC rules, equal time rules, by virtue of what I do for a living, meaning being on camera, in front of the camera, in the microphone. If I were to run for office, I would instantly be taken off the air because I'm not allowed on the air, which means I'd have to give up my contract.

54:39Steph McMahon:You have undue influence, supposedly. That's what they're saying. Anybody, right? So I'd have to give up my job, which means giving up my money. I'm not giving up my money. I worked very hard over the last quarter century plus to earn what I have. I'm not giving that up to run for office. But I will admit if there was a way that I could be on the debate stage to go against these politicians that I believe has ravaged our country, and I didn't have to lose my job, I would announce to the world I'm running just to beat them. Because I'm like, I think that they're a disaster. I'm not talking about policies.

55:17I'm talking about behavior. I'm talking about dividing people on purpose. I'm talking about not taking into consideration about bringing the country together and understanding. I think the most important thing to say to young people that you need to learn, everybody doesn't get everything they want. I don't give a damn who it is. There's nobody that loves you, for example, more than your parents, your grandparents, your aunties, your uncles, and people like that. There is no way on earth they tell you yes every time. Sometimes you hear no. Sometimes you hear you can't. Sometimes you hear you got to do your homework.

55:55Sometimes you hear you can't go outside and play. Sometimes you hear you're grounded because you're acting up and stuff like that. that's the real world. And these politicians try to convince you that if you hear no, they can't tell you no. They got to act like they're telling you yes to everything. That they're going to give you everything that you want. And they never do. And they never will. They just tell you what you want to hear to get themselves empowered in office. I'm not that guy. I'm a real one. I'm going to tell you, no, you ain't having that.

56:29Steph McMahon:But yet you couldn't run as an independent because... because? I can't, well, the independent, the money's in the parties. Right. So because the money's in the parties, the money that they throw behind you. So then you're beholden. It's like the whole system is just upside down. And I'm not going to be beholden. So if they come to me, if they want me, they got to come to me. And if they come to me, they got to come to me with a plan that enables me to keep my money while I can do it. They come to me with that, I'm all ears, but I ain't giving up my money. But so what role does media have to play?

56:58I think media plays a very important role, a very pivotal role, because the media has to learn to be better objectively. You don't have a right as media members to take a side on every, on just in general. Right. Like, you might agree the Republicans might have a point with immigration, but have no point with the economy, have no point with safety in the streets, have no point with a bevy of other issues. The Democrats might have a good point with certain issues, but not others. You've got to be open to that open mind and really, really dig into what works and what doesn't work for the country.

57:35The way it was supposed to be set up. That's the way it was supposed to be. You can't be, well, you know, I had somebody, I hung up on him. He said to me, every Republican is racist. I said goodbye. And here's why I said that to him. you might feel that way about our present administration but you're talking about the 77 million people that voted for him well how about somebody that voted for him because they just thought he would be better for the economy what about somebody who voted for him because they thought well he's pro he's pro life and they're pro life instead of pro choice i'm pro choice.

58:18But I'm pro-choice because I don't believe in telling a woman what to do with her body. Period. It's just that simple. I was raised by women. I ain't telling a woman what to do with her body. That makes me pro-choice. There's a bunch of things that I have a problem with on both sides of the aisle. But the point is, you can't castigate people like that. Because I don't want one black dude messing up and folks are thinking all black dudes are like that. That's one of the issues that I have when they talk about black fathers. Most black fathers I know are the most loving, dedicated, giving men you will ever meet in your life.

58:57But society has folks believing we don't love our children. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's a lie. But they'll tell you that stuff. They'll tell you, well, the system shows it with numbers, but they didn't tell you what the system did to get in the way of men generating numbers so they can generate income so they can take care of their families and how the system got in the way of it. They don't tell you a lot of this stuff. And I'm in a position where I don't have that problem. So I can say this kind of stuff. All right. And there's a lot of men get bad raps. There's a lot of God fearing women out here that do great, great things in every community in this country.

59:34and you have men on Capitol Hill saying one thing for lip service and dismissing them when it really, really counts. But we out here in the trenches. And I remember one time, one politician said something, he came on News Nation and boy, did he make a mistake saying, he said to me, what would you know? Like, how would you know how the people are feeling? I said, you had a rally when we're about 20 people showed up. I show up in arenas every day with 20 ,000 people in it. In football season, 60 ,000 people in it. I walk the streets of America. I'm in front of more people than you. What are you talking about?

1:00:12So it's like, watch your mouth. And you know, you look at these folks and I'm like, I'm not an aficionado on issues. I'm far from an expert. What I try to do as a media member is know enough to provoke conversation and steer you towards people who do know so you can listen to them talk about the issues and they can educate you. So when people try to come at me and say, what the hell does he know? Please, you got this wrong. I say, what are you talking about? I never said I knew. I said, based on the information that's out there, this is how I feel. But go here, go here, go here, go there to learn even more because they know more than me on both sides of the aisle so you can hear different perspectives and then deduce what conclusion you want to reach.

1:00:55That's right. But most importantly, you have to be about the business of striving for righteousness, striving for what's fair to the vast majority and not the select few. And unfortunately, we have politicians on Capitol Hill with lobbyists in their pockets, with their hands in lobbyists' pockets every single day that are doing what it takes to maintain power instead of doing their job. And to me, if those people showed up on a stage against me for a debate, I think that if I showed up on a debate stage, I think 100 million people would be in front of their telegram set to see that. Oh, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

1:01:35Steph McMahon:And I can tell you right now, I will have never been more ready for anything in my life than I would be for that debate that night, more than any sports debate or anything that I've ever done in my life. If somebody said to me, you could show up on that debate stage and debate against these dudes that I believe, have really severed our country. I cannot tell you how desperately I would be ready for that moment. And you talked about listening to the smartest people in the room, given whatever their particular expertise is. So I know that one person you truly admire, and I want to just ask this, is the nature boy, Ric Flair.

1:02:17Steph McMahon:so what are the top three takeaways the best lessons that you ever learned from listening to rick flair especially in terms of how to cut a promo and how that then parlays passion so much starts with that don't tell me that you've ever encountered anybody with more passion for their job than Ric Flair. Woo! I mean, this brother, you know, I mean, he was something special. I mean, listen, he's still alive, still kicking, but Ric Flair, I mean, he's the reason. Don't get me wrong. I love what I'm seeing from the WWE. I'm a fan. You got some superstars in the sport and stuff like that. But I've often said to the Nick Khans of the world, the Triple H's of the world, my man, you know how much I love that, brother.

1:03:07That's my guy. That's my guy. I've often said, and he's such an incredible talent evaluator and all of that, the one thing that to me they haven't found, excuse my language, is a shit talker, the quality of Ric Flair. I mean, that's the one thing that there has been no equal. There has been no successor to that. No one. And I mean no one. This man is just next level. I mean, he just is. And, I mean, this dude, Ric Flair was something special. And, I mean, Hulk Hogan had his thing. Ultimate Warrior had his thing. Randy Macho Man said, ooh, yeah, he had his thing. I mean, a whole bunch of people.

1:03:48And I go back to the days of NWA when it was the American Dream, Dusty Rhodes. It was Magnum TA. It was the Road Warriors, the Four Horsemen with Arne Anderson and the crew. I loved all of them. But Ric Flair stood in front of the crowd because when he got in front of a microphone, when you saw him, you could see the other fighters, the other wrestlers, you could see the other fighters there. You didn't want to hear from anybody else once you saw Ric Flair. Because you're like, would y 'all move out the way? Let me hear what he has to say. You know what I'm saying? I mean, he was just phenomenal.

1:04:24And so it was the passion, obvious belief in himself, because obviously as a wrestler, he was undersized compared to most of the wrestlers he went against. So there was this unwavering belief in himself, a passion that rivaled it. And was there a greater master at the mind games? is there something was there anybody that could get you to just despise them so much

1:04:53Steph McMahon:and get off your game because i mean i was kind of hated no no you were but but rick flair was something special rick flair rick flair i mean it's unbelievable listen you can't stand rick flair's children because of rick flair you know charlotte's winning them over winning winning but i'm just saying she has a uphill climb because sure the nature boy i mean that's a lot to live up to and you know listen that passion the eye for entertainment the mind games excuse me all of that that separated rick flair and you know he and i you know we communicate from time to time i love him to death. And, you know, he just calls me the ultimate entertainer.

1:05:38And I'm like, please stop lying. I'm talking to the ultimate entertainer. Nobody, nobody was better than the nature board.

1:05:46Steph McMahon:Amen. Well, I think this is a great place for us to end this interview. And Steven, just so grateful that you would take the time out of your day. You guys don't even know the day that he had and how many things he had to do. And he was determined to be here for you guys today. He wasn't going to miss this. So thank you for staying late. Thank you for coming late. Thank you. So grateful for you in so many different aspects. My pleasure. Anything for you. And I hope to see you on that debate stage. I hope so too. I doubt it. Let's go. But I hope so. In some form or fashion. There we go. Okay. Thank you.

1:06:22Thank you.

1:06:33Steph McMahon:On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:07:29Steph McMahon:stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

1:08:02Steph McMahon:Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:08:13Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements.

1:08:16Steph McMahon:We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week, we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time, and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller, and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.