What Do You Wanna Talk About? - AJ Styles

26:52Okay. But he did his old Macho Man turning around, walking down, brother. It's like he was supposed to run down and save us, I think. So, yeah, it was comical. Yeah. Because I remember we're all sitting around going over the match, and Macho Man is there. And I'm in there with these legends. Like, I look at Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, I'm like, whoa. I'm in the match with these guys. and and scott scott is trying to tell macho man what's going on and and every time he starts to talk yeah macho would go hey brother and start talking to somebody else and then uh sorry and then scott would try to continue and then like hey and turn around and finally was like scott was like man i'm not i'm not gonna tell you this anymore i was like they they argue just like you know regular people yeah but to me there was such these unbelievably huge stars i just didn't see it and it was just so funny to me that like oh they're they're regular people okay cool they're they're regular people and and talking about scott hall still caring about the thing they were doing that yeah yeah i uh i remember one time i hope he doesn't mind me mentioning this i think i even when i spoke to the undertaker who you had his last wrestlemania match um when i spoke to Undertaker.

28:07I might have mentioned this to him, but it was a great lesson for me. He was at a WrestleMania rehearsal one time, and he was already, the streak had been broken, but by that point, this is The Undertaker. There is nothing The Undertaker can do that's wrong at this point. His presence on the show is a gift to the show. For sure. Always, all right? He's at that stage of his career, and he was over in the other ring, practice ring, doing a rehearsal, complaining about the time they had. He's just, I don't know if we're going to be able to tell this story with this time we've got. Where are these cuts coming from?

28:40He's talking to Michael. And I thought, in my mind, I thought, why do you care at this juncture? And I knew the answer, but I needed to come around. I'm thinking, why do you care? It's because he'll always care. Because you were talking about being obsessed, all the smoke. It was always about the very best, telling the right story, all of that. Do you think, and I already know the answer, you're going to be able to just switch that off when you retire. No. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. You still have this, whatever it is inside of you, that you're never going to be able to get out. But most of the, you know, I wouldn't call myself the greats, but for me, like Stone Cold still has it.

29:22Undertaker still has it, even though they're retired from the ring. Yeah. They still have it, man. It's not going to go anywhere. You just can't get rid of it. It's a sickness. It's a sickness. That's exactly right. Randy Orton said on SmackDown last night, he told me I was sick. And in a weird way, I thought, I'll take it as a compliment, actually. I've just got the fever. You know, Garth Brooks, the fever. You just got it. And it isn't going to go away. We were talking about TNA. You had Macho Man's last match, which I love. But you were also there through all these iterations of TNA. Hogan coming into TNA.

29:58Dixie being in TNA. Dixie being more prominent in TNA. and I'm saying Dixie Carter for those who don't know, but I think if you're watching What Do You Want to Talk About, you probably know who Dixie is. And obviously Jeff Jarrett, who I've never really worked directly with Jeff. I almost wish I did at times because I've just got such a – there's something about Jeff that whole – they remind me of my dad in a way. They all have this – you know the bone. Yeah, I got you. This carny bone and how they flex that is always unique. But was there a time there that you preferred and liked the most with TNA?

30:36Oh, man. It was exciting when, you know, the whole—we started growing in Orlando and going to— like, something big was happening. We could all tell. And then we get on Spike Television, which was huge. And then there's Kurt Angle and Christian Cage. Like, we're growing. People are coming from WWE to TNA. They want to be there. I'm like, all right, this is getting pretty awesome, dude. Like, we're moving. Like, we're getting ratings. We're doing pretty well, you know. That was some great times there. I remember Christian going over, and I feel like maybe he doesn't get enough credit for – that was a move at the time.

31:16That was a big move. It was a huge move for Christian. And I remember wrestling him in the ring, And immediately you could tell he was one of those ring generals. Like he knew exactly what he did to do, how he wanted to do it, and could control you. Yeah. And to make sure that everything goes the way it needs to. I was like, I was impressed with Christian. I never really had that opportunity. I knew exactly who he was until I finally got in the ring with him. I'm like, whoa, this guy's good. He's really good. Yeah. And can control the situation no matter what it is and think so quick on his feet.

31:53He's really good. Your time in TNA, after TNA, one of the best pictures ever, as obviously you, IWGP title, and Mount Fuji's behind you, right? Yep. That's the photo. You know who took that photo? Photographer. Yeah, I thought it was one of your buddies. It's an actual pro photo. No, I think that they had me go somewhere, and we took those pictures specifically for the magazine. Again, a time when outside of WWE, which is so hard outside of WWE and outside of the machine to turn heads. It really is so hard. You can count on one hand, typically, the people who make us at WWE or make WWE in general flinch or just look.

32:34Or, oh, I want a piece of that. But your time there, the Wrestle Kingdoms that followed in the Bullet Club, you're a true leader of the Bullet Club. It's documented. And then not only is it documented, it's documented that I am not. And that's important, the distinction. I will say it again. The internet will tell you I was, but I apparently am not. I never claimed to be the leader of the world. I don't think you have to claim. I think our whole thing was, at least the way I presented it to the world, was we don't follow anybody. Yeah. And so therefore that means you don't follow me. I'm not your leader.

33:10I'm just part of this crew because we don't follow anybody. And that was a way for me to make sure that everybody stays important. It wasn't just one guy. Like, we as a group were a big deal. I didn't want it to be about AJ Styles. I didn't want it to be about Gallows and Anderson. I wanted it to be about all of us together. Yeah. And I thought that's what made it special. And you could tell we really enjoyed ourselves because we were having a good time. Yeah. And I believe that when you're having a good time, the fans will perceive it as something that's cool to be around or cool to be, I guess.

33:41So, yeah. We, that's why I never wanted to be the leader. I wanted us all to be important. Well, technically you're documented as one of the leaders of the Bullet Club. And that's important to just note the distinction that I am not, which it's a whole bit. All right, sports fans, this is the tag team you've been waiting for. Affirm and Fanatics have joined forces. You can grab your fan gear today and pay over time. With Affirm, you get simple monthly payment options. No late fees, no hidden charges, and no surprises. Just flexible plans that fit your budget. Whatever gear helps you be the fan you want to be, like a new jersey, the latest collectible, or a classic throwback, Affirm can help you make it yours with a payment plan that works for you.

34:28Because being a fan isn't about spending more. It's about backing your team, your heroes, and your story your way. Visit Affirm.com slash WWE to get started or download the Affirm app. It's free on iOS and Android. With Affirm and Fanatics, now every fan can own their moment. Subject to eligibility, terms apply. This time in New Japan, because you enjoyed wrestling in Japan? I loved it. I mean, if you've ever wrestled in Japan, which you have, it's one of the best places to go and wrestle. They respect you so much for the ability that you show in the ring, the athletic presence and everything else that goes into it.

35:08they love it. And as long as you're willing to give them your all, they will, you know, reciprocate. There's such a respectful culture, respectful and fan culture, but also nationwide culture. I learned very quickly because you'll see things about, oh, they're not selling and it's no sell. And I learned really quickly that the psychology was not no selling. The psychology was what I would refer to as the drunk rule. So if I go get drunk and this is something, a nightmare factory lesson, I guess. If I go get drunk, I'm not acting more drunk. I'm trying to act sober. I'm not trying, oh, I'm actually trying to walk in a straight line.

35:46Same as a New Japan pro wrestling match, it hurt. But I'm trying to act like it didn't hurt. Right. And those deep matches where, you know, Ishii, for example, he's headbutting, headbutting, and then the next thing you know, guy hits the ropes and he finally falls over. Then it all makes sense. Then it all works in the way they would do the longer matches where you had, you know, four chapters, really, four quarters in there, you could tell those stories, which sometimes in a shorter TV match, you can't tell all that. But I found that distinction and then instantly fell in love with that distinction.

36:17That is a really good way to look at it. And then territory wrestling, 70s and 80s, that wasn't, a lot of babyfaces were doing that. They'd find that point in the match where, you know what, this doesn't hurt anymore. It does, and you know it does, but I'm tired of you hitting me. You know, Hulkamania. Yeah, I was about to say that. That becomes his Hulk up. But prior to the Hulk up, a lot of baby faces just did the, you know, they'd finally fire up and I guess a fighting spirit was a way to look at it. And I feel like that got lost. Maybe it's because Hogan made it just his. But that, if you look back pre that, the 70s and, you know, 60s, there's these territory wrestlers, Chief J Strongwell famous for, he'd start doing that war dance and start moving around.

37:03and yeah, that's... I think there's a time and a place though. It can't be done in every match. There's times when you can do it and there was a match that I produced where Cruz Montana got dumped on his head from Tony D and goes for his finish but misses it, gets speared out of his boots and then Tony goes to finish him off but he gets hit with a code breaker then Montana hits him with his clothesline. You know, like there's a time and a place for it. But it can't be done every single match. So I love it when it's done, like, out of nowhere. Yeah. And I go, oh, yeah, I forgot we did that. You know, I love that kind of stuff.

37:46There's a time and a place. I feel like I'm really bad at guessing when the time and place is. You know what I mean? Well, you did it. Hey, do you know how much heat I got for having you do it? I knew it was coming up. I knew it. The burning hammer. I was ready for it. The burning hammer. Yeah. Yes, I suggested that he fire up out of that on one, right? I believe the kick out was on one. And because we needed something big. And yeah, I know it's the burning hammer, but it's AJ Styles' burning hammer. So it's not Kenda Kabashi's burning hammer. So it's way different. It's not the same. I can't do it as well as him, obviously.

38:22My joke was whenever I'm asked about it or I think about getting a little salty with it, My joke is always, well, it's not AJ's finish. It wasn't, you know, AJ busted it out for the first time ever. And I'm glad you have, I am really glad you brought this up. Because it was something that you suggested. And it was wonderful that you suggested it. And it was something to try and something to have. I love a challenge. I love a development. You were really big on development when we worked. And we worked, we worked live events. we we worked uh multiple ple's pay-per-views whatever we worked and you were really big on development which at the time uh i i couldn't have been more grateful i'm already honored and positioned to wrestle you as steve austin put the greatest wrestler on two feet so i'm already in a really great position to do that and be with somebody that refuses to have anything bad and it refuses to have good.

39:25You're great only type. And if it's not great, then you're mad at yourself. So that was a great position to be in. But you were really big on testing me, pushing me. And this is also, I'm glad you're here because we can talk about it, but not just in the ring and what we're doing, but also behind the scenes. You, we did a tour where everyone, you know, there's photos of them and stuff that circulate, but everyone now, end of the tour, especially a tour where we've all been together on the road, there's a toast at the end of the tour. And I take so much time doing the rounds at the end of the night that the toast, you'd be waiting an hour before I got back, which no one needs to ever wait that long.

40:06I got my own car because I don't want the bus to have to wait. But you decided to throw it in catering when we all got there instead. And I remember you waited for me and you walked me in. and what you said was such validation of all my hard work and all that I ever wanted and really just my dreams saying, hey, you let it. We're all safe. Young guys and girls worked really hard. Everyone changed their matches up a little. Listen. And Cody here, he was leading us through this, which I wasn't leading us through anything. I was wrestling you. And I was just in my, I felt like that was the QB1, the running the play and the role.

40:51It felt like it was no longer performatively being handed to me and more you were saying, this is how you should do things at the end of the night when your time, you're kind of telling me something without telling me something. You were saying something to the rest of the room, but it was just a great moment and I never got to thank you for it. And you reminded me that it can't all be about you. The whole group is here. We're all over here, and there's going to be that guy. It's going to be him next. It might be him next. And just the way you handled the title matches you did with me and what happened, because I know they couldn't have been easy for this reason.

41:25I won at WrestleMania 40 after the guy had the belt for three million days or whatever. We weren't moving the title off of me. And it was really hard to sell that we, even a false finish is hard to sell, especially at the first one after. No one thinks we're moving anything, and you just defied it. You just did everything you possibly could to make that still fun and functional and exciting. And we have to talk about France. I was about to say, they certainly did help us with the match for sure. I mean, I still think it was a great match. Yeah. But I was like, I'm supposed to be the bad guy here.

42:06Why are they? I think they just really wanted to do the phenomenal song. but it made me feel good. But you got to think about it. You're from Georgia. Country accent. You are, you're Southern. You're a Southern white man. Yeah. And you go to the heart of France and you were like a national hero. Yeah. They loved you. I don't know. To me, I tell people all the time, that's the greatest wrestling crowd I've ever been in front of, in my opinion. For me as well. I mean, how do you top that? I mean. I love, though, that they're singing the Phenomenal song. Do we know the exact name of the song? Le Phenomenal.

42:52Le Phenomenal, yeah. Maybe we put it up on the screen. But they're singing this song. And the night before on SmackDown, what I like the most is they had really rattled me the night before on SmackDown. We're going to wrestle the next night. But they rattled me because I couldn't hear. And we're live to tape, so we're still trying to keep this timed right. And I'm seeing the timer over there. It's a red countdown. And then I'm not being able to pay attention to it because they're being so loud. And that's the cameras are moving. I mean, the old school entrance that you have out there, the camera is literally moving up and down from them jumping.

43:27Never seen anything like it. But you had to tell me, say the thing. Say the thing. Because the last word of the promo was mine, I suppose. And I don't even remember what it was. But had I not, I just would have gone off on air looking at you and looking around. Because I was so caught up in it. I almost ran us off the air without finishing the promo. Because of that, the next night I said, hey, let's rock. We know what we're going to get. Let's make them part of it versus against it. Versus them just having their own fun and us being privy to it. Instead, we worked as a unit, the crowd and us the next night.

44:08One of my favorite matches. Yeah, one of my favorite, too. I mean, it certainly all started off well. Yeah. You know, we knew we had them then. You knew it was going to be good. Yeah. But you're one of those guys you can just get in the ring with, and it's going to be an easy match that looks complicated. It's just you're able to do that. I know better, AJ. I know I'm difficult. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I'm aware. It wasn't difficult for me. We had good chemistry, though. A really fun match. I remember in those live events, I thought, okay, I got to keep Cody because Cody goes, he's all or nothing kind of guy, which I love.

44:43But in this instance, I've got to keep him safe. You are our champion. Yeah, you kept telling me that. You're not hitting the cutter off the top rope tonight. Yeah. Just give me a regular or whatever and I'll stay down. You're a champion. My job is to make sure that you don't get hurt. Yeah. You're our guy. and we're going to get to have another match after this. So, yeah, you know, and I'm glad you brought that up because Bobby Roode said, hey, I'm thinking about pitching you and Cody. Yeah. I was like, oh, man, I'm just getting this character here, you know, trying to be a nasty heel, mad at the world, and I'm not going to beat Cody.

45:22I can't. He can't lose a title. I was like, man. So, but the opportunity to be back in the main event was, you know, a big deal to me. So, of course, we had two great matches. The I Quit match. My mom. It was awesome. Your mom slapped me three times, was supposed to slap me once. Yeah. I don't know why she did that. Why'd she go three times? I don't know. Maybe she didn't think the first one was good enough. And she's the sweetest person in the world. So I'm just like, wham, wham, wham. I'm like, three times. All right. Okay, here we go. I'm going to smash your son's head in for that. I remember seeing your face, and it was a little bit, anytime you get hit, it's like, geez.

45:59you know uh you could see i could see you firing up a little bit and i wondered if he had told her or if you had told her hey give me another one or hey because no i didn't have to i think she cursed too right did she curse yeah i think she cursed too i was privy to you cursing you never curse and i think i heard you one time well some there's a lot of times where yeah i'm i'm this character. It's not me. It's this character and he's, it's just takes me, it takes me to a different place to be that character. And I don't mind it. It needs to be that. Sometimes you may accidentally hear something that you weren't spruced to, that there was this mean AJ Styles.

46:43I love it though. I mean, I listen, I feel bad when it happens because that's not me, but you know i i love the i love holding the i think it's well known and when your video package that uh i think adam panucci put together but whoever put together before the last night hire by creed oh a lot of us backstage were quite excited one of my favorite i was pumped up and i uh i'm not going to be one of these pretenders who tells you creed isn't amazing because creed is amazing uh i agree Yeah, let's stop pretending. Let's stop lying, young people. But the video package, your family's in there a lot, your wife, your children, and your, I think the no cursing thing, for me, no cursing became a really big thing when Liberty was born, just because I don't want a kid who curses.

47:35And you know what I mean? I don't want to hear that until like 18. Well, I mean, listen, I'm not saying they don't, because I'm sure they, and emotions get high, and sports, and I get it. I get it. But I just don't want regular talk to be dropping F-bombs and stuff like that. It's not good. To me, be smart enough to say something more intelligent. I just don't think in a light it makes you look very good. Perceptions sometimes, don't worry about what everybody else thinks. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little. If you're going to date my daughter and you're cussing, you've cut me off immediately.

48:18Yeah. You've made me start thinking something completely different about you, whether you are or you're not. So, I mean, you've got to take that into consideration. Are all your children on your ribcage? Yes, all of them. That's – All of them, our initials are AJ. Did one hurt more than another? I mean, that's a tender spot on the body. It is. A tattoo on AJ. Yeah, it was not my, I don't know. I figured if I'm going to get one, let's go big for one. Yeah. And I don't mind it hurting a little bit. And it did not feel good at all, especially my daughter when it was kind of, I didn't know she was on her way.

48:57So I was like, oh, man, I got to get a new tattoo that had no room for her. So it's kind of on my hip and a little different looking because of that reason. It wasn't done at the same time as the rest were. I feel like I'm because I asked you about the ribcage and I'm going out of order here as I often do but I first learned this when you came to WWE the first time Orlando Royal Rumble which was different because you were a surprise but it was so you in terms of you were a surprise that was Stardust at the time but the surprise was given away in the meeting which is never the case anymore They gave it away.

49:34You were sitting in the front row. Everyone clapped. Yeah. I don't know how that felt. Everyone clapped. You just did a like this. Yeah. And see, you knew everybody. It felt like you knew everyone. And even you and I had never really had talks. But my dad had talked to you about my amateur wrestling. I knew, you know, my dad spoke so, so highly of you. And I knew very well who you were. So it felt like we had a link, a bond already. And I remember, I think I was painting my face. And I asked you about, you know, at the time, I think there were less. One less. One less, yeah. But that night, take us back there to the Rumble because it's one of the greater debuts and the start of one of the best runs ever as far as the WWE superstar.

50:17Consistent runs, consistent WrestleManias. How are you feeling? Nervous. I mean, I'm in someone else's house. This is not my house yet. I'm just moving in. And so I'm very nervous about how the other guys would feel about me. Yeah. You know, because they don't know me. There's a lot that didn't know me. And for the some they did, I couldn't, I was so happy to see them. Like, you know, like Road Dogg, you know, there's just a couple of guys that I was just like, oh, man, and kind of latched on to. Yeah. Because I didn't know anybody that well. Even though I know your dad, I didn't really have the opportunity and to get to know you.

50:56But there was a time where your dad and I were talking in TNA, and he told me you were wrestling. I'm like, dude, I love it. I'm going to come up there and be able to watch. But then they never got the opportunity to come watch you wrestle. I wish I had. I think that would have made our bond a little bit tighter. But, you know, I didn't know a lot of guys up there, and I didn't know how they felt about me. Yeah. And I know I'm 37 years old, worried about this, but it's just a respect thing. Like, I'm coming into your house, dude. I want you guys to know I just want to be part of the team. Yeah.

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52:44Prepaid debit card issued by Sudden Bank, member FDIC. Cash App Visa debit flex cards issued by Sudden Bank member FDIC and the Bancorp Bank NA pursuant to license from Visa USA Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sudden prepaid card. Sudden debit flex card and Bancorp debit flex card. Cash App Green features savings, direct deposit, roundups, overdraft coverage, and discounts provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. brand. Visit cashapp.com backslash legal backslash podcast for full disclosures. You know where I struggle is when, and you know all about this, when young guys get a producer in their ear telling them they're the next this, the next.

53:30Oh, yeah. And I'm not disputing it. Hell, that might even be the company. But you'll know when you're there, right? Yes. And on the way, there's a lot of doing things because you think that's what you're supposed to be doing. Having little tantrums or worried about these little moments in the matches when there's bigger hills. Bigger hills. They seem like I have trouble when a guy dies on every hill. Right. You know what I mean? Right. I have plenty of things. And I'm like, I don't love that. I don't love that. But if there's a collaborative effort here, there'll be something bigger that I'd really fight for.

54:07But we're all working together. If that makes any sense. Right. And if you don't have a better idea, don't say anything. Oh, man. Don't complain until you have the better idea. Right. Don't say anything. You got nothing. It may suck. But since you didn't come up with anything else, shut up and do the job. And it's the writer's job to come up with whatever storyline they want to. And it's my job to do what they have laid out and perform. Like, that's my job. and sometimes their ideas are a lot better than mine and sometimes every once in a while you might have an idea that certainly does work but it doesn't mean you're going to get it just because it does doesn't mean you're going to get to pitch it doesn't mean you're going to get to do it It goes without saying you guys revisited it on the retirement tour but what a discovery that was John Cena versus AJ Styles I don't know if you knew that it was going to be all that it was or I don't know how much history you guys had between each other prior.

55:07I don't know, but you guys seem like you were made to wrestle each other. And it was such a juxtaposition of the very hood ornament, corporate, and not corporate, but the franchise of WWE, and at that point, really golden boy, really could easily do greatest hits, and the crowd would still love him, and love him how they loved him, but always he's looking to get better with every day and you came along. How do those matches come together? Is there a producer that's in there with you or is it just your flow? This is some of the easiest matches I've ever had to do were against John. I don't know why.

55:49Our timing was certainly there and everything we did was certainly there. I don't know what it is. I've said this a million times. I don't understand how we both gelled so well together. I don't know what it is. two guys who were just loved what they did and took pride in how they did it maybe that's what it is but every match i ever had was great every one of them and that's it's hard to say that about you know a lot of guys but for him it was we just gelled really well together sure i can't explain it i mean i wish you maybe maybe she'd ask him and ask him what it is i don't know what it is it's this x factor that to your point there have been guys in my career that i've come across and and had a really random one.

56:34I remember I put together a match with Matt Cross one time, and it couldn't have gone easier, and it couldn't have flowed better, and we had very little time to compare notes, go over ideas. Plus, we never touched. Ethan Page is another one. Oh, yeah. Ethan Page is another. My gosh, man, we just, there's a thing here. What is that? So you can't, I don't know. I know when it doesn't go. Oh, yeah. I know when it's, oh, my gosh, everything hurts. And I know when it doesn't go. I want to bring it up because it's right here and it's right now. We've hit the TNA run, of course, which we could talk about all day because of such significant things you did there.

57:16Your WWE run, going into the Hall of Fame, how you recently did it. I want to ask you about the gloves in Saudi. And I'm not the first to ask about the gloves in Saudi. Have you answered this before? I think I may have on a podcast. Stephanie get to you? No, I think Chris did. CBV? Yeah. He's the worst. Yeah, he's the worst. He's really good, unfortunately. You know, he's so good. He's starting to, so CBV is about to transcend the wrestling space, I think. And he already has. He interviews people that aren't in the wrestling. But if you're not doing it on his level and you're out there, you got a ways to go.

58:02You got to get to that because that is – he's also trusted. Oh, yeah. We don't trust – I saw Heyman on there. Right? That's a – you don't trust anyone. You know what I mean? So that's – he's the best. But, yeah, you put your gloves down symbolically or retiring. But then you got your gloves back. I didn't know exactly what was going – I was hoping that I would get to lay them down in Atlanta. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do. The dirty South. But, you know, there's all kinds of things running through my mind. Yeah. So, but I am certainly glad I got the opportunity to lay them down in Atlanta. Sure.

58:42That was a great moment for me and my family to be able to do that. And I felt good about it. I felt at peace with it. And so I'm just, I'm glad it happened there. Now, I feel like maybe I'm misspeaking. misspeaking. You reserve the right if you want to, of course, to come out of retirement. This retirement is not frozen in time. You reserve the right to come out if you need to, correct? Yeah. I mean, it's retirement. I think Michael Jordan said it once. It means if I want to come back, I come back. You reserve that right, correct? You're not saying it's over, over. I don't think I can. No. I just...

59:18Well, let me tell you why I don't think you can. Okay. All right. Let me tell you. Not because I'll need you, which I already do. And just in the course of this conversation, I don't know if you can tell how warm I feel around you because you're just such a good influence and I have so many bad influences around that it's nice to have a conversation with someone like you mentioned about Scott Hall and Macho, normal, normal human, you know, doing phenomenal things. Okay. Your son is getting into the industry. Your son is having matches. All of us know about what Avery is doing. I just, I don't know.

1:00:02That's why I mentioned the retirement thing because my father jumped out to have one tag match with me one time before my, he jumped out to be at ringside. Sometimes it doesn't have, but he, but he certainly, there's something about when you're a second and third generation that you don't want to do any of that because you want to make it out on your own. And then there's the kid that you tucked in at night who's always going to be that, who, oh, I definitely want that. You know what I mean? I definitely need to do something. I can't not do something. So he started his journey. How do you feel it's going?

1:00:38Well, I mean, I think I'm a little hard on him. Yeah? Oh, yeah. I'm probably the worst. Because I'm sure some of the things he's like, I can't do anything right. Everything I do is wrong. And it's because I expect it to be better. And I have to take a step back and remember what it was like for me. And if I would just go back and watch some of my old stuff which was absolutely terrible, I'd realize that it just takes time. So I tried to say, well, this was good and this was good and reserve the right to maybe don't tell him everything that was bad, which was a lot. But I want him to get experience everywhere against everybody.

1:01:28And that's TNA, that's independent, whatever that goes. Before I go down to the performance center, I want him to see it all and do it all and just get his horizons, you know, brightened like to an extent where he's seen it all and done it all. And listen, the biggest problem that a lot of people have right now is they end up being like someone else. And I know that he is doing a lot of my stuff. Yeah. But in time, he will realize that he's able to do other stuff and be his own person. You know, I wanted to be like Kidman, Billy Kidman. Yeah. You know, and then as I was progressing, it changed.

1:02:06And it was something totally different than him. I mean, Billy was doing some wild stuff. Shout out to Billy. Yeah. I mean, I did the shoot star because of him. Yes. Yeah. So, and then at one point, I really wanted to body slam him on his head. Yeah. You know, because apparently the shoot star got me in trouble in WCW. Yeah. But the fact of the matter is, like, everybody finds someone to look up to when they first get in the business. Yeah. And then you transition into another character and do other things that are more of who you are. Well, isn't it funny how long it takes to find yourself? I mean, think about the presentation of AJ Styles.

1:02:44You in TNA, and then when you come to WWE, that's why I feel like that run in WWE is almost a no. It probably is. and ERA and, you know, but there's no, I can't think of a miss in the run because you had found it. It all seemed so packaged. And so, and it wasn't just good marketing. Hey, we're slapping this on a young kid. You'd lived it already, but you said you were 38? I was 37 when I started. 37, right? WWE. And there's something to be said for that. There's these territories in the late 70s and early 80s that 35 and up is where things started really going for you. And then there's world class where it's 20, 21, 22.

1:03:25There's definitely something to be said for both. But when you're at that age, you know who you are. At least you know more who you are than less. And I felt like the AJ that we got at WWE, you knew what you were. A lot of people say, well, that wasn't prime. Prime AJ Styles was in TNA. I disagree. I was in the best shape of my life when I got to WWE. But I understood psychology. So there wasn't a dive every second. and all these things that didn't need to be done. There was things that I thought was needed for that part of the match. And just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

1:04:02A lot of people don't understand that when they're young, but you will as you get older, and it makes a lot more sense. And it's easy for fans to follow, which is important. Prime, for anyone to say, I mean, Prime AJ Styles as an athlete also seems as odd as this might be. it seems like it was right at the end of the most recent run. You came back in phenomenal shape, no pun intended, and had learned all the techniques you'd learned about how to keep your body safe and how to keep yourself healthy. You mentioned how you were holding me back, not holding me back, guiding me on the live events, which I would have loved to have said, but I could just be me because I knew you were going to take care of that you were going to protect that you were going to hold that back you were going to get us to where we need I'll remember that for when the time comes for me to do it for someone I'll remember hey we're not doing that we're going to do this and it's going to be just as great but we have to get to X and I can't have anything I'll remember that going back to Avery and you said you're very hard on him I have seen I'm sure you have too every type of dad in wrestling.

1:05:19I have seen dad who is right next to the kids, loves them. Hell, he might even be teaming with them, working out with them. I've seen dad support them to a fault. I've seen dad completely disassociate so that they do it on their own and find their own way. I've seen it. I remember we did a little class when I wasn't with WWE, and we had a second gen in there, and his dad was up in the stands. I'm not going to name names, but his dad was up in the stands. He was watching. We did a few rolls and bumps and drills, and the next thing you know, he's moved down halfway. We're doing more stuff. Next thing you know, we start talking about promos, and at this point, he's got like a fake newspaper, and he's right by the ring.

1:06:03He needed to be right on top of it. He wanted to be right on top of it. So however you're doing it, the fact that you're – I'm sure he really appreciates it to be able to have you along. for the journey. I mean, he's just beginning too. Yeah. Well, let me ask you something. Yeah. Because I'm trying to understand what he's going through. Yeah. You should know being second generation. Is it tougher because of who your dad is? You know what I mean? Your dad was Dusty Rhodes, one of the most famous wrestlers ever. Um, how was that for you trying to be, you know, as perfect as you possibly can, you know, because of who your dad is?

1:06:43It's got to be a lot of pressure, right? Or maybe it wasn't. The pressure is a lot of pressure. It's immense. It's almost being fathoms and fathoms under the sea where the pressure is on you, like you're going to crack. But that he's already lived with. Your son is, that's there already. You're a public figure, 2026, Hall of Famer, phenomenal AJ Styles. The pressure is already there, already there. So if he's showing up, he's already leaned into the pressure. If he's showing up, if he hasn't burned out, if he hasn't crashed out, which your kids are wonderful children, you and your wife have done, and they're beautiful.

1:07:27They're beautiful children. So he's already leaning into the pressure. So to him, this is me, he probably doesn't even think about it. It's second skin to him now, the pressure. What I would imagine he's going through is everything he does is a reflection on you. Also, everything he does, as we have found out, is news, which kids who come in and who have no name, and I mean that meaning they're not a second or third generation, no problem. They're not public yet. He's public. Everything he does, Independence is garnering news. Every mistake he makes is going to be amplified. The wins he gets are probably going to be even lessened because he's within that column with you, which is an unfair column to be in, but he's leaning into it already because he's showing up and doing it.

1:08:21I think it's very fun and easy to do the things that you did, and the crowd's going to pop because they're going to make the connection, and people love family. They love blood. They love a story of a father and son. But I think what nagged at me, and maybe it's his case, is you do want to quickly find your own things. You do want to quickly find—I remember Ricky Steamboat recommending to me I do the flip-flop and fly, and I was 21 years old, and I'd just broken it, you know, on Monday Night Raw. I'd just debuted on TV, and he was shocked when I didn't want to do it. Shocked. I didn't want to start doing that until I was in my 30s, until I felt like I could access it again.

1:09:00that's your birthright, sure, but you kind of earn your birthright. And so many promoters and so many guys putting matches together, especially when we don't even know how to put matches together at that age, are going to be like, yeah, and then this, and then styles clash, and then they're going to want those pieces, that connective tissue. But that pop is for you. And I think after a while, you want the pop for me. You want the pop for him. And the best thing about all this is he's already leaning in. He is not afraid of who he is. He is not afraid of his name. And that's a gift. I remember guys telling me, hey, you should go by a different name.

1:09:40You know, break out and do it on your own. And I heard that, and I respected the person who was doing that. But also in my mind, I was like, F you. No, I'm my dad's son. Like, I want that. I want to fail as that or succeed as that. I don't want to be someone else and I totally respect it and understood it but I love what I've seen from Avery I love it and the cool thing is this is the other great thing and hopefully he hears this and watches this discussion he is a child he is a rookie these are rookie mistakes you can make when you're a rookie imagine coming to WWE right now and being alright you're phenomenal and then you don't get to grow up in front of them.

1:10:28I grew up in front of these people. Right. Some of them can't forget that I was awful. You know what I mean? Like some of them, when they come back on, they literally have to say, this guy? What? And that's why I often say a lot of matches that might have happened in the early, you know, 2007 and 2015, if I redo those matches in 2027, I always tell people it's basically a first time ever match because I wasn't me yet. I was just a rookie on TV growing up. So I love that he's a rookie and has been positioned as a rookie. Love that. Because you can grow in front of them. You can. You can't make the same mistake twice, but you can at least make it.

1:11:03Yeah, I think you should be allowed. Yeah. That's what the Indies are for, is to try things and see if they work. And if they don't, we know not to do those anymore. This is the perfect place. And unfortunately, yeah, people are going to see it because now you can watch almost anything. Where before, I'd go in the Indies and I would do some terrible stuff. and nobody's ever going to see it. It's lost forever. Sure. You know, he doesn't get that opportunity. No. But I think that you need to make mistakes so you can grow. Yeah. Well, two sins of the father, you asked what it was like for Dusty Rhodes.

1:11:36I can tell you this, for him, for Avery, he's, you are universally liked in every locker room. I couldn't find one. I don't know if I could find one guy. I was like, oh, that guy, the worst. politicker. You know what I mean? Like, I can't, there's not, like, my dad was a much more complicated case. Booker, producer, he had hired, he had fired, he had taken legs out from under guys, maybe not without realizing, maybe with realizing. He had done all that. So some of that lingers to this day. I'm going to bring him up again. God bless. He needs to come on this podcast and defend himself. But Michael Hayes, every now and then, we'll have a discussion where he is instilling knowledge onto me.

1:12:24He is imbuing me with the stuff I need to hear because very few people can do it like Michael. And then out of nowhere, he'll be like, you know, I just don't know why your dad didn't want to go with us. You know, him and Flair, he just went with what he worked. And he'll start talking about, I wasn't alive. Like I, yeah, you know, and then you start to be like, do I defend? Do I? No, let him just say it all, but he'll just go on it. So I had to deal with that, whereas I think your son will deal with, I think he'll deal with a lot of people like, yeah, I had a great match with your dad. I expect to have a great match with you.

1:12:58You've set such a reputation and such a precedent that you saw with the chairs thing. Everybody under the sun, probably more than you, was literally, all right, we're fighting who we fight. This kid, he's getting a fair treatment here. We're going to fight over this. That's respect to you and to him probably the most ridiculous thing that was ever talked about on x yeah and uh and i think may have got rage baited into that uh well well i was standing by you know i was i i had to i like to get in i like to get in there every now and then you know some i like to get in there but that one i thought this kid we're not doing that we're not i there and this is do you know ben Bishop, the big tall guy.

1:13:45I do know Ben. You know Ben Bishop? I know Ben. Ben Bishop had an oddly really good take on it. And I wish it had just ended with that. About how, hey, one guy thought he was supposed to, and he was there, and then the other guy, hey, wasn't even on that show. He was booked for something else. He had a really good kind of, let's just let it be. But some of us, myself included, couldn't let it be. And I didn't, I do want to, you know, you brought up the burning hammer. You've now taken credit for this burning hammer. It was me. It was me. I'm going to take credit for I didn't mean second gen and multigens don't need to do the things that they're supposed to do.

1:14:19What I meant is there's a level of knowledge and osmosis. And my mom, for example, even though she slapped you three times, I consider her a wrestler. She never set up a chair in her life. My sister, I consider her a wrestler. She never set up a chair in her life. She lived this. She lived by it. You went through your run with your children. Like, you lived by it. So a little grace is all I'm saying here. And also, to really bring it down, he wasn't there for that show. He was there for another show. He just happened to be, he's got a target on his back, and that's never going to go away. And we learned that.

1:15:01And I don't regret for one second getting in there because we weren't having it. But I didn't mean that second gens don't have to set up the chairs. Although, I'll tell you what I did. I drove the ring truck. You know why I drove the ring truck? I would assume because your dad said you're driving the ring truck. That was one. That was one. But do you know why I really liked driving the ring truck? Because it meant I didn't have to set up. I got the truck there. Y 'all take it. I got the truck there, put it in park, start unloading the trailer, gang. I can sit in here for eight minutes. They'll have the post up by then.

1:15:37I did my part. Well, I will say this. as I'm inquiring my gym as it's getting started up when the ring is moved to the gym he will be helping us put it up yeah you should because it is this will be his gym this is what he's supposed to do for his gym this is what is expected so I get it and every wrestler should know how to set the ring up at least once at least once or twice literally it's one of those at least once or twice old school maybe you do it out in the parking lot Shirts off, boys. Get the tan. This is real 80s. Oh, yeah. But that was a thing. Where the boards go, how the struts on the bottom, doing the right amount of turns.

1:16:20I got to speak about this. Yeah. Just because we're talking about rings. Yeah. The best ring I have ever been in. I think I know what you're going to say. New Japan. Yeah. I don't know what it is. It's built way different. Yeah. If you've seen them put it together, I've watched them. Yeah. Because I wanted to see what this ring was like. Like, what did it look like? It's way different, and I'm assuming it's got too many pieces for us to use it in WWE. That's why we don't. But it's by far one of the best rings I've ever been in. Do you feel the same way? So, what's his? His name is eluding me. TNA made the ring.

1:16:56Oh, my gosh. If you hadn't asked me, I could have told you. Dang, six-sided. But we'll get. So, I love the WWE ring because of the traditional ropes. Nobody else is using ropes. Right. They use real ropes and watching Charles Robinson tape those ropes. I love the WWE ring. When I was away and we were starting things on our own, we had nothing, no infrastructure. So I asked Kenny, I believe, to get the specs for the New Japan ring. He did. But they were, of course, in Japanese. So the guy who made the TNA ring got those specs. 22 by 20 because they had the extra wide aprons yep he got those specs and just i i think he didn't even glance at them i think he just took the dimensions yeah like all right i can make you that with a wider apron i can make that for you guys and the next thing you know that that's what we had but that new japan ring not only had that amazing bounce yeah it was it was a bounce without a bounce without a bounce yeah but also the rope the thickness on that cable so guys if they were going to fly high it is a really you could springboard from anywhere in that ring yeah it was amazing i still don't understand yeah but together i i can't figure it out but wow japanese engineering yeah japanese engineering sometimes it's just really good my nephews uh they trained in my like really really bad rings and the joke i made with them but i think they thought i was serious because they only trained here they were just here for a few weeks in the summer was they were saying, well, Dustin's rings are really nice, really nice.

1:18:37Same guy made those rings, really nice. And I told them, yeah, but we like to get you trained in the worst possible ring you can so that you're ready in the better rings, which was a joke. But then I could tell he was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you don't know any better, it does make sense. Yeah, to me, as long as the padding isn't coming up, you know what I'm saying, and you can take a bump in the center of the ring. We've all been in crappy rings before. I mean, so what? Deal with it. Yeah. You think this is bad. Wait till you get, I'm not saying this ring. Yeah.

1:19:07You think this ring is bad. Wait till you have to get into a really terrible ring. Then you'll see. I did a show in the UK at PCW. It's got to be that same ring. Okay. Well, I did a disaster kick, and I was on the other side of the ring. So I don't know if it was a 16. It couldn't have been a 16. It's small. Maybe even less. Yeah. It was, I couldn't believe it. I jumped and just was on the other side. I know. I'm telling you, it's the same ring that all of them use. It's tiny. Yeah. It is tiny. They don't know. But everybody uses the same ring. So they don't know what they're doing with their food over there, and they don't know their rings over there.

1:19:45No. It's new to them. Yeah, it's very intriguing watching your son's journey. I'm really excited about it. And you wrestled my dad. I did. So I hope that'd be nice. Maybe you got to stick around a couple years. How long do I have to stick around? Well, I was 48 when I retired. Okay. That's seven more years for you. Seven. You can do it. Yeah. I don't know if you want it. I'm healthy. You can. No, I'm healthy. I don't know if you want. Where'd you feel like on the way to 48? Did you feel like you slowed down anywhere? You know what? I think the biggest thing for me is no matter how much cardio I did, the wind isn't what it was.

1:20:26Yeah. It just depletes. That's the first thing to go. Well, actually, your fast twitch muscle fibers are the first thing to go. Then I think it's the wind. I had a wind story the other night that I'm terrified. And now I told Bobby Roode, I said, you got to keep me honest on this. Shout out to Bobby Roode, by the way. I love the Bobby man. Cold as ice, though. Yeah, yeah. Cold as ice. Yeah, he is. Emotionless. But he, I came in the back. I was, there was just something that I was going to do dark. That was all. Just something dark. No match. Just something dark. Run out. Chase off a bad guy. Something.

1:21:07Send the crowd home. Happy. Something. But I had stretched and hydrated and all that. And I was sitting on my bus. And I smoked a cigar. And this is earlier in the day. It's my bus. It's a cigar. Right? I've been on the cover of the Cigar Aficionado. Cigars. Everyone knows I smoke cigars. But I walked in. I guess I didn't spray cologne on myself or anything like that. And I gave Hunter a hug. He goes, did you just smoke a cigar? I said, yeah, on the bus a while ago. And he goes, all right, yeah, you reek. I was like, OK. And then I walked in, grill, and I go, oof. I can never blow up now, ever, in front of him, ever blow up.

1:21:45I can't even look like I'm blown up, which for those who don't know, that means winded in the ring. Right, yeah. I can't even look like I am. Otherwise, you're going to be like, cigars, man. They're getting me. Yeah, yeah. Well, you don't inhale cigars. That's the story. No, no. And also, I'm not like an old man smoking a whole thing. And then this is a little thing I was doing there just watching, you know, 1990 to 1995 WCW on YouTube over and over again. And, yeah, he caught me, though. So I told Bobby right after. I said, hey, Bob, he caught me. So I can't. Yeah, Bob's monitoring it now. Oh.

1:22:16Yeah. Good luck with that. Good luck. You are getting older. Yeah, I am. And I love a wrestler that says I never blew up because every wrestler blows up. I remember the one who told me that. I thought, who's this for? You know, like every one of us at some point blows up. We know you're a liar now. Also, there's moments in the match where if you were blown up, you might be down. Prime example, oh, I'm going to build, build, build, build. And then we're laying there. Catching, you know, we're laying there for some big explosion. You get some time. Oh, yeah. Listen, I worked, I don't know how many people's finisher is jumping to the top rope and springing off of it.

1:22:55But the older you get, of course, you get more blown up, as I said. The harder it is to springboard and hit your finish. So I specifically tried to make times where I knew that I would have enough energy. And I prayed a lot on that apron as I was about to jump. to make sure I can accomplish that mission. I watched NXT for a whole, when I was rehabbing my pack, I was just watching NXT all the time and trying to think of as many things as I could tell people. And the one thing I kept coming back to was there's so much athletic, cool, amazing, high spot stuff. It was awesome. But I kept coming back to make sure you take a deep breath.

1:23:39Doesn't mean don't do the thing, but just find that one deep breath because you know how it goes if the train's off the tracks. and that last piece is the bounce, bounce, you know, best moonsault ever or whatever, make sure you just give yourself the breath. Just the one prime example. Springboard and cold? No, no, you know, versus that down. The whole deal. Yep, and the thing is, too, I will say this, is don't rush it. Don't ever rush because when you rush, it's going to be off. Your footing is going to be off, and you'll mess up, so never rush. I like these conversations for a myriad of reasons, But what right now does retirement look like for AJ Styles?

1:24:18What are you up to? Well, I've been down at the Performance Center a lot. Hopefully still checking out the indie scene, fixing some things, trying to help in certain areas. So I'm staying busy. Although I'm not in the ring anymore, I'm not out of wrestling. So it's just one of those things, as we talked about before, it's not going to leave anytime soon. so hopefully I'm still able to be hungry about helping and contributing to wrestling because I still love it AJ I'm going to say one thing here at the end of this thing because you really hit the Gainesville Georgia part I know you're from Gainesville Georgia there's a lot of different types of Georgia we're a great state we are a great state we are filled with all walks of life we can disagree but we also agree for betterment we agree to as it should be as it should be georgia is a beautiful place i just want people to know why i use atlanta i use atlanta because when i was younger my sister drugged me to atlanta as often as she possibly could to get at cultured up atlanta style i mean i was downtown i was underground.

1:25:38Teal was going to see T.I. and Buckhead before T.I. had blown up. So that is why I use Atlanta. I don't want people to think I'm hating on Marietta, Georgia. God bless. No. No. Okay. You kind of are. I mean, you are for Marietta. Well, maybe we've got Sunday night's main event coming up. Maybe I'll just say. I dare you. You dare me? Marietta, Georgia. Marietta, Georgia. Bust it out. Nobody even know. They only put two and two together. I accept that dare. Let's see if it happens. All right. I'll be watching. Ladies and gentlemen, what a guest. Hall of Famer. A wonderful human being. Big brother.

1:26:16Let's hear it for the phenomenal AJ Styles. Boom.