What Do You Wanna Talk About? - Kit Wilson

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0:36hello welcome to what do you want to talk about i am the american nightmare cody rhodes and this of course is a fanatics and wwe original production today i'm very excited my guests here on the grounds at the buffalo trace distillery the home of wheatley american vodka we have a smackdown superstar who is catching everyone's attention the master the founder the originator of kits fits of course his uh opening intro to his music and all of that has become a viral sensation everywhere we go you're going to learn a lot more about him uh over the of course, of this podcast, one of the UK's great standouts.

1:21And of course, just someone we are very, very glad to have here on What Do You Want to Talk About? Please welcome to the podcast, Kit Wilson. Cody, thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. You right there have got something that looks quite special. What do we got? Do you know what? I've got Wheatley's American-owned runway martini. A runway martini. Yeah. with a little bit of Wheatley American vodka. I have the American Mule. Cheers to you, Kit Wilson. Cheers. I hear I might have some catching up to do, so I might go heavy with this. That's all right with you. Yes, yes.

1:57And the lore, too. We film and put podcasts together here at the Buffalo Trace Distillery, and I think enough of our audience is aware that sometimes I might go too hard, and then those podcasts wonder, hey, I saw a picture of them. Well, Cody goes hard. Yes, that is indeed, you just, I think, beat the record. Oh, really? Yeah, if we had a record board and somebody, oh my, and you knew where the backup was. So that is the definition of preparation. And as you know, that's part of excellence, something along the lines. Back to my guest, Kit Wilson. You said something to me yesterday. I did not know, and forgive me for not knowing.

2:43I did not know we met before Kit Wilson yeah well I sent you a photo did you recognize anything there? no I don't know if we can get up on the screen but very different we will very different look but yeah in that indie run of yours yeah that was in the era where I first started so maybe maybe I'm two years into the business and I guess we've got some few funny stories I wrestled someone from Smackdown oh wow that night okay I wrestled England's own Nick Aldis. Oh my gosh. So you wrestled Nick Aldis? Yeah. I believe you were wrestling maybe Will. I defeated Will Ospreay IPWUK? That's the one. IPWUK.

3:24And this is where, so, okay. This is my, that's where I trained. That's where I started. It was in Kent, England. I used to drive there every week. That's where I kind of started. And, you know, I was afforded a lot of good opportunities, Nick Aldis being one of them. But I think the story I'd like to tell with that, Cody, is I go to the venue. I'm kind of, this is in the era I'm starting to get dressed up. You know, I haven't got a lot of money, but I'm starting to look good. Sure. I come up to you. I shake your hand. He clocks the shoes. You give me a shoe compliment. Oh, wow. Okay. Also, Finn Balor, at the time Fergal Devitt, about a year later, complimented the shoes.

4:00I think I started strong fashion-wise with the shoes. But you were very cool. You know, it was only 20, 30 seconds, you know, a quick one. But I have the match with Nick Aldis. It goes well, at least for me. I'm not sure what he thought about it. Well, that'll be another discussion. Nick's a little spicy. Yeah. I mean, deservedly so. I look back now and deservedly so, Nick. I apologize. But I do a dive to the outside and we obviously as indie wrestling, so there's no mats. So I actually split open my elbow and I got like four stitches. Okay. I'm in the back getting medical care, but who is the one person that comes to check on me?

4:32Was it Nick? It was Cody Rhodes. It was. Yeah. Oh, wow. And you know, I'd spoken to Nick. This isn't disparaging Nick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mickey James was there actually. And she was, Mickey was sanitizing me. So shout out to Mickey. Wow. But who pops his head in to check on me? It was you. And at the time that meant a lot to me. Cause I didn't know that you were aware that I was injured, but you know. I probably watched it with a great interest because I was following what Nick was doing and Nick and I would plug in with each other here and there. That's certainly, you got medical care from Mickey James?

5:02Yeah, yeah. Nick was informing me about the match afterwards and kind of letting me know where things maybe went askew and what I could do wrong. What kind of dive was it? You know the one? Who did it? I used to do the one where if you're on the outside, I would run, hop over the turnbuckle and then flip over the turnbuckle to the outside. Oh, speedball. That one? No, not quite speedball. Bobby Fish. Oh, okay, gotcha. Yeah, now I know what you're talking about. I did that and I think that was a double header, that show. I think the night before I did the same dive, kind of slightly cut open, the next day fully open.

5:37Got it all the way then. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't, didn't really learn from it. No, no, no. The dive was needed. I think I'm just starting to learn in this past year. Yes. Oh no. And it takes, it takes, I mean, sometimes though the decision to do it is the right decision. Believe it or not. You know, like in terms of, Hey, you got to go every now and then you got to go for it. Did this, you know, I'm putting, putting you on the spot here, putting myself on the spot. Well, was the house any good? Yeah, it was, you know, I think. Okay. All right. All right. I believe it was the casino rooms in Kent. Yeah.

6:07Maybe in a place called Rochester. Okay. And they generally did quite a good, it was quite a good vibe. It was slightly nightclub adjacent. Yeah. But they were always family shows. It was a good mix. Wow, that is wild. Maybe not as good for you, but good for me. No, I mean, for me, it was about filling the room enough. And you didn't want to, when you did those and they carried, you know, your name or whoever the big piece they were promoting or the person who had come from WWE or whatever, New Japan or whatever it was, you wanted it to do well. Now we're really, I mean, everything is documented.

6:42It's scary. Yeah. It's scary. And then just, it's scary, but it also holds you accountable, I guess. I'm in my head on some of the things as of late about every single piece of WWE right now and every wrestling company. somebody needs to share and put it out there and i'm i think what's gonna happen is an overload and of information yeah to where fans just stop caring yeah yeah there's a lot like i watch the show i like the show i like this guy i don't like that guy i like her i like i don't need to know what was how many people were in the seats yeah it's wild i don't know who's keeping all these records but I'm getting tired of what, what do we need this for?

7:29You know, like what, what, who's this for? They seem like it's doing great. You know, anyways, that's my, my, my bit. Well, to that point as a, as a teenager, you know, as a, as a massive fan, as a kid, I was a massive fan. I'm kind of every bit of content I was, I was taken in, but I never, what never really clicked with me was the, you know, the internet ratings, all these kind of slightly insider things that was never relevant to me as a teenager, because I just enjoyed what was happening on the show and I wanted to know more about the wrestlers so I never really understood that side of it you know from a fan's point of view I'm uh really in all the like IPs that I enjoy different shows I like stuff like that I never have any interest to me in what's the behind the scenes it actually kind of spoils elements for me especially with like your bigger IPs like a Star Wars or something like that yeah you hear way too much on the build-up I don't I don't need to know yeah for sure i'm gonna show up and make my decision based on what i see you know uh that's that's just me i i know uh and i'm in the entertainment space so perhaps everybody's different i wanted to say because you're talking about mickey james sanitizing you busting your elbow four stitches ipw uk yeah uh i actually utc chattanooga which is a arena i hope you run at some point in your career maybe for a wwe live event if they ever come back that as a little kid, I used to go to WCW shows there.

8:48And I had my backstage pass, which at the time I was so little, was like this giant. Yeah, like a big guy. Doug Dillinger, shout out to him. He's the guy from Goldberg videos. He was like my dad's commissioner, Gordon. He was so, like I didn't realize he had a reputation online at all because I just knew him as an ex-police officer from the Carolinas who took care of me and my sister and was awesome. But he used to give me this big credential. and I'd go just find an empty seat. I didn't have a ticket. So I'd go find an empty seat and I'd watch the show. And I fell down the stairs. They're wood stairs.

9:21I fell down, like not a full Cactus Jack rolling down the steps. But enough. But pretty close. Yeah. And I was missing school that morning, like already to be there. So my mom's already probably not excited about it. But I cut under my eye and I went to the back and I was like more embarrassed than anything. Like getting towels, like what do I do? I'm obviously like, you got to tell my dad he's working. but Ricky Steamboat of all people set me down and patched me up. And I always thought that is wild looking back at it. He hadn't worked yet. He was probably in the main event. Yeah. I, that was just cool.

9:55Ricky, he just like did a little cotton swab and looked at it and he kept like pinching it and like checking. He's like, I don't think you need anything, you know, come back. And it was just really, really sweet. So there you are. You're getting patched up by Mickey James. Well, I think that's the cool thing about, you know, once you get a certain uh deepness into the business you look back and you you have these kind of like checkpoint moments where you meet someone like that you meet a ricky steamboat oh my gosh you talk man yeah yeah you ever met the honky tonk man yeah i did a there was a maybe you did preston city wrestling we don't talk about honky tonk man enough pcw pcw clutter yeah yeah so it was uh i don't mind shaming it uh i'm not gonna shame but like kind of shame he had me dress in the middle of winter in an alley and then like we had like there was a room you know indie wrestling you're you there's things like these stories you'd never hear on any other production yeah but there was a room downstairs like a party room and i dressed in there and open the locker like open the doors to everyone can dress in here it has heat yeah like it has heat and we have to go upstairs and wrestle in a tiny 16 foot ring in a club that you could literally jump from one middle rope to the next almost and i remember a party showed up like well that's our space.

11:07So we're not mad at them. They literally booked you out. So they moved me and another wrestler who I will remain nameless to the alley. So I'm dressing in the alley in the middle of winter. And I thought this is one, maybe take this one off my list here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe not, uh, cause the fans were great and I was paid well, I'm not, but yeah, that was, that was an interesting experience. Yeah. They were, they were good promotion for me. And actually it was, uh, it was Chris masters that put me forward for PCW in a, in a weird turn of events. So I got on the PCWs. You know, I had some good matches there.

11:39I had a fun interaction with Drew McIntyre there when he was on that indie run in the middle. Sure. Yeah. I think he was doing a triple threat with Shah Samuels and Noam Dar. Okay, yeah, yeah. NXT's Noam Dar. Noam, I think, was doing the Cruiserweight tournament at the time. Oh, okay. Late from a plane. The match had started already, and he's like 10 minutes out. So now we're at this point where Noam is going to come in during the middle of the match. This is crazy. I'm in the bad guy faction with Shah Samuels. I've never seen anything like that. No idea what's happening. We're panicking. We're panicking.

12:08Noam's entrance hits middle of the match. He gets in there, just gets involved. At some point I know Drew's going to be standing tall. The rest can be down and I'm heading in. Yeah. But again, I'm new. I'm nervous. I'm English. I'm scared. Drew's a behemoth. Yeah. Refs down. I see my moment. I slide in. I'm behind Drew. Low blow. I don't get to the blow. His thighs are so blocked. Yeah. His thighs are so thick. My arm gets stuck. Yeah. Graves my hand, turns around and goes, we're going to need more than just you. Future shock DDT. That was my Drew. Did he mean that? I felt like he meant it. Yeah, it sounds like he did.

12:46The fact that I couldn't get up due to the behemoth thighs, I felt that kind of got him some manly testosterone brewing. Well, I mean, of course, it's a perfect time to talk about testosterone and brewing and all that because you are right now on a current campaign defining and in dislike of toxic masculinity. Yeah. What does, where does that register for you in terms of, give me an example of toxic masculinity. You don't have to, just what's like a, cut that out for me. Yeah, I mean, we can go deep, but I'll try and keep it light. I think toxic masculinity for me is almost a lack of vulnerability in males.

13:25Oh. As a true. That's a real answer, actually. Yeah, well, hey. Good for you. Cheers to a real answer. Hey. Thank you. non-pretender here i'm going yeah well yeah look i uh you know we're all we're always stradding the line of character and real life right yeah i think very much this era of them in the moment is very true to who i am there's a lot turned up to 11 i mean i feel that i feel like i'm in this thing yeah so i think toxic masculinity for males particularly even if females watch out because you can suffer. You can suffer. You can suffer from it. Cheers. You can suffer from Dr. Spaniel.

14:02But yeah, let's take a male, for example. You know, in life as humans, we have typical masculine traits and feminine traits. I think men struggle to be vulnerable and open up with those feminine traits. You know, they feel like they have to go big on those masculine traits because really they're just kind of scared or vulnerable or shy or insecure. But the way to deal with that for a lot of men is to punch a hole through a wall. They don't know how to express themselves and express their emotions. Me, I'm a little bit feminine. I'm a little bit masculine. But I think that makes me a bigger man than Matt Cardona.

14:34I think that makes me a bigger man than anyone else on the roster. So not only am I trying to get to the top, but I'm trying to get to the top with a message to create a new culture within men and create a better man. In your efforts to create a better man, and you mentioned someone who you thought was toxic and masculine as well, that being Matt Cardona, a combination of the two. chipped your tooth I heard yeah yeah yeah I went to the dentist that the week after yeah no remorse and I grew up on the woo woo kid yeah you think I wasn't watching going woo woo and here he is chipping your tooth I never thought it was going to get me now in his defense and we have to defend him because one time in this very room I didn't and he let me know he says he kicked you but the other side of your mouth is where the tooth was chipped so he thinks it's not his kick that caused the chipped tooth but I'm of the thought having been in the ring with him it probably was well i yeah it was the other side but i don't think he realized that's how bad the kick was it comes here it clenches the teeth down and it kind of vibrates yeah the undisputed wwe championship title is mine and i don't plan on giving it up lucky for you you can climb the ranks and earn your very own championship titles in wwe supercard The new Road to Immortality features WWE ID, Evolve, NXT, SmackDown, and Raw.

15:53As you challenge for titles each week, you'll gain and lose fans depending on your performance, allowing you to advance in your WWE superstar career. The titles up for grabs correspond with the real WWE schedule. Like the real show, you need to prove that you are the best to stay on top of the leaderboard. Download Supercard, flash the QR code, and claim my WrestleMania 42 card for free. Chicago knows Ford. At Mercado Ford Chicago, we are Chicago. You'll find over 400 new and pre-owned vehicles, giving you one of the largest Ford inventories in Chicagoland. From hardworking trucks to everyday commuters, we've got the Ford built for your life.

16:35And when it's time for service, Our mobile service brings certified Ford care straight to you on your schedule. Mergado Ford Chicago. We are Chicago. Visit mergadofordchicago.com. Let me ask you, because it seems like your campaign here and your journey to do this, get to the top of the message, as you said, that's a lot. Your job as a professional wrestler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it almost seems you're doing a little bit of, you're doing far more than pro wrestling if you're after all of toxic masculinity. If I could say so. It's quite ambitious. Yeah, I think, hey, I think I'm leading the charge for this genre.

17:22You know, there's a lot of people fighting the good fight. You know, I'm an ally, of course. But I think I'm the one guy in professional wrestling. I'm not the one guy, obviously, but in the current landscape we're in, in WWE, in SmackDown, Yeah. I'm fighting the fight, you know? And I truly believe in the cause. I truly believe that all the men, whether you're toxic a little bit or toxic a lot, you could benefit from, you know, letting your feelings out. You could benefit from being more vulnerable. Nick Aldis, our general manager. He toxic or not? Yeah, I knew you were going to say that. Easy.

17:50Easy toxic. Okay. And I've gotten there. And if we're going to be a bit real, the man has helped me a lot recently. But toxic. Oh, still toxic. Yeah, you said it. You can be friends. You can like this guy, but yeah. It doesn't mean you can't grow. Yeah. Because I think that's a lesson in life to grow. What about like the current locker room leader and kind of the elder statesman, not that he's elder at all, that being Randy Orton? I've seen moments where he's quite vulnerable. Well, yeah, look, I don't know Randy, obviously as well as you. However, I saw him on the Steph's podcast, Stephanie's podcast.

18:23I think he opened up a little bit there. Yeah. And I'm sure he can attest to it. I'm sure he got tons of messages. Him opening up, open up the door for so many people to open up themselves. I think that's the important message of this. That being said, toxic. It's so too toxic now. Yeah. Toxic. All right. Can, and you mentioned a female can be, there can be, so I'll tell you one, Jade toxic probably, right? Well, she's been nice to me recently. She's been complimenting me in how I dress. So that can't be the only reason. All right. Toxic. You know, like we like Jade. Jade's a, we're, we're, we're, you know, she's a special, special part of SmackDown.

18:56Yeah. But I'm trying to think of who's out there being vulnerable, being aware. you know i've been doing a lot of being transparent well i've been doing a lot of promos in the ring recently and i i come after a lot of the males in the audience but don't you think i don't see the women undressing me with their eyes yeah toxic that's a toxic trait that's a dog you're not a piece of meat no and i i say this all the time but i get my kicks above the waistline right sunshine yeah it's a line i like to use i don't know if i know what that even means i don't think you need to know yeah i got it as like it's developing but now okay all right uh uh great thank you for the there's a lot i'm learning uh as we go here's kicking back to ipw uk yeah yeah how long have you been in the business in total because that was two years in you said yeah i think roughly i would have to look at the day i started in 2014 dang i started training then yeah but one person that i guess i would say early on was training me or did a few sessions with zach sabre jr oh my god yeah he's kind of a kent guy so he kind of popped in did little bits with him i was always surprised a he's taller than you think yeah he's really tall but b i might have asked you this backstage i had my first independent match with him and then i would wrestle him multiple times after that yeah he was very very stiff he's not unsafe but just you knew you were in a fight yeah and i always kind of laughed looking at him like who are you trying to i'm prove what are you trying to prove here man like he did the deal where i jump up on the second he kicked the back of my foot yeah and i had a mark on the back of my leg for he left he left with me basically for a couple weeks yeah i know we got flash morgan webster with that as well yeah i think he's a he's out there getting people yeah but maybe that's toxic is that toxic or is he kind of one of those who can tie you up a little bit and wants to like well i think that let you know i think that too yeah i'm yet to wrestle him yeah i only did a few training sessions and again this is yeah this is so early in that you know he doesn't he wouldn't see the man i am today, even though we've seen each other down the line, but I'd love to get in there with them.

20:56So you're, I mean, you're a baby in all of this, man. I don't mean that in a, it's, it's different than what we've had on the podcast with. Yeah. Well, I thought that was very interesting coming into the podcast. I feel like you've had a certain, a certain level of guests who have achieved a lot or they've done with their career and they're kind of hall of fame level. Whereas I feel like I'm unproven. And at this point, I think that's a very interesting point to be at. Interesting. You know, for me, this feels like a check mark a checkpoint you know well i go on to to do these big things i'm gonna say i'm gonna do because i am yeah i don't know how long it's gonna take me it could be a year it could be 10 years but i'm here well you said like unproven and you've already proven things uh but unproven like what's a short-term thing what's something right in the immediate future that you're looking at and going huh that needs to happen we know bullseye on toxic masculinity you know letting the world I did something similar when I was doing Dashing Cody Rhodes.

21:48I was out there trying to explain to men how to self-groom, how to take care of themselves. I was watching it. And I was a villain for it. And today, I don't think I, how? I get a bit of a mixed response. You know, I'm preaching a similar story to you, but there's a lot of people that are on my side. There's a lot of people that aren't, but I think that's the fun of it, right? I'm very curious what it is you want to do next. I'll swing you one that is rather you're probably going to go, what the? I was joking with you, very just locker room jostling, because I saw you at the Rumble, and you were leaving the show.

22:28Yes. And I now, this is unrelated to you, this part of my rant. I'll get back to the other part. I now am really on the kick of why are guys leaving the show early? Yeah. I'm really genuinely not a fan of this isn't on you. This was a, you're not even gonna wait till the middle of the show. What if someone gets hurt? What if you're needed? Carmelo Hayes one time when the audio busted in overseas, I had done a whole promo with Randy that if fans know, they saw a version from Keith Blomberg's camera on the floor because we had no production. And while we were figuring out how to do that and not kill a live audience, Carmelo Hayes was ready and ran to the ring and did a little something.

23:10I don't even remember that those moments happen. So I've been really on this kick lately about where are you going? And like also a lot of the older wrestlers who are like in that grizzled phase, like we're all grizzled at this point or we've all been grizzled, like cheer up, cheer up, like you get back in there or hide it. You want to be, you know, like I've left plenty of shows early. I'm guilty as well. I've also hidden it. I never did it right in front of somebody. Anyways, that's the end of my rant. But you, and then you pulled me aside and you told me why. And what I would say, and I was thinking about this this morning, you were talking about you were not part of the Royal Rumble.

23:49And I think very much you wanted to be part of the Royal Rumble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I told Carmelo Hayes, actually, here we are talking about him again, is the same thing I'm going to tell you now as far as, and we're definitely going to have to get you another one of those. Yeah, maybe. is I would say that's the last Royal Rumble you're not part of. Yeah. Do you know what? I do think that was, again, we talk about these checkpoints along the career. There was, you know, I don't like to go too behind the curtain, but there was a situation where I thought maybe there was, you know, maybe it was a sure thing and then something happened and then I wasn't.

24:22So that day, you know, I was kind of struggling with those emotions, which is okay because I'm not toxic. You're not toxic. However, you know, I do value your opinion. I do value a lot of other people's opinions. AJ talked to me that day as well. So the next day, I just came in, smile on my face, as I always try and do, but I made an extra effort on the day of the Rumble, smile on my face, and I just worked in every which way I could possible. Not to put myself over, but I was doing the interviews. I was working with - You put yourself to use. I put myself to use because what else I was going to do.

24:50And I was working with the China social teams. I do a lot with them, Ni Hao. Cheese. Yeah. Ni Hao. Yeah, Ni Hao. Or I Mi Fan. Uh, but I think that day as well, I kind of won over the Miz because the Miz kept on walking back, you know, he's prepping for his matches, doing his things, but he saw me like two or three times in the middle of, you know, kind of pushing for things. And I think that was kind of the impetus on the Miz liking me. I mean, Miz liking you is probably a great thing. I sent him a pitch actually two days ago. Oh, we're going to talk, we're going to talk about your pitches here.

25:23Oh really? Okay. I sent one to Mike, uh, two days ago and you know, I don't, I don't, I've only texted him once before. he's a he's hollywood yeah and cardona oh my god very hollywood cardona told me he doesn't reply yeah uh he replied to you though didn't i had a pitch and he replied he complimented me and he ended with awesome wow so you know a little teenage buzz for me though he's out there living the gimmick yeah i think so yeah but teenager in me miss miss such an incredible incredible hard worker that i wish i wish uh there's so many new guys who are coming up who are really really talented and i like carmelo is one who's seen it there's a few who are starting to look around and go oh oh i get it now like oh my gosh like that these are things that we have to do in addition to oh i'm really great and i'm trained and ready to go you know like ms is uh special in that sense but uh you mentioned uh what you're doing that day and what i said uh i really feel that but i feel it twofold as far as that's the last royal rumble you won't be part of but the reason i say it is a your growth on television is is gonna happen and your your checkpoints you're gonna go through it don't don't stop at each one you know what i'm saying enjoy trying to take a little moment with each one but the reason i'm confident in saying that is because i don't know anything i don't book anything i'm not in charge of anything i know because i i know who you are yeah you're not gonna allow it to go by and i think you know again like i don't want to put something out there that's not true but one of the things we'll talk about it and if you don't want to share it's totally okay i this is a story that i'm wondering if i should share uh my part of it yeah i wanted to go to the office uh to see what life would be like at the office uh at wwe hq i had a career before as an executive vice president i yeah i failed at it but but had some success along the way, but failed.

27:25Ultimately learned a great deal from said failure, as we do. That's what we need. But I wanted to go, I said, oh man, I'm going to treat it like I'm going there for a job. I'll write a sample format. I'm going to write a full tech format, times and everything, and not a dreamer one. I'll take what we have now and put one together. I'm going to go and share that with Bruce Pichard and the creative team, and I'm going to sit with them and I'm going to go to CPG. I'm going to meet with Lee fitting and his team. I'm going to meet these departments and not the high. I'm such in touch. Not that you can do the weeds.

28:01We can do that in three minutes. I'm going to actually know what can I really do for you? A community. What can I really do for you? Do I fit in anywhere? Cause I, I, I got the bug. Yeah. Okay. But anyways, I didn't want to be unprepared because if you came to me as a wrestler or unprepared, I'd kick back or I'd look for things to kick back on. So in that setting, I was wanting to be ready. So I reached out to as many people as I could on the roster. I said, what's an idea for you? What's something you want to do? Some people called me. I got this. Some people didn't reply. Some people sent a nice little text with a perfect little simplified note.

28:40And I thought, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. If Ed or somebody asked me a good question just i didn't want to be unprepared i didn't want to waste their time you didn't send me a text and you didn't send me a voicemail i have in my phone nine full-blown pdfs yeah yeah yeah pdfs that do you know every meeting i was in i almost spoke about you every time because I couldn't even read through three of them at this point. Like I was more stunned, which is the first thing I asked you. I said, who's seen these? Yeah. Who's seen these? Today's been a lesson in terms of everyone I've talked to today. And, and, and this, I don't know, you know, I don't want to dispense wisdom to you, but I'll, I'll tell you something I learned as a, I was a overbearing, aggressively hard worker.