What Do You Wanna Talk About? - Matt Cardona

0:00Rated T for team.

0:05My career has been a fight. A long, brutal, but necessary fight. I was told no more times than I can count. And every single time, I prove them wrong.

0:27WWE 2K26. Available now.

0:36Hello, everybody. Welcome to What Do You Want to Talk About? This is the American Nightmare, Cody Rhodes, and this is a Fanatics and WWE original production. Very special day. We are on the grounds, the Buffalo Trace Distillery, and I have a great guest. I have one of my five, as I actually said in this very room, somebody that I feel confident, I don't know if he feels the same, in calling him my actual friend, somebody who recently returned to WWE, somebody who also went away from WWE and set the path ablaze, took whatever blueprint there was, created an entirely new blueprint. I am, of course, talking about Long Island Icy, but not just that.

1:25But not just that, the death match king, the very complete and recently returned to WWE. I mean, he's a former everything champion. He'll tell you all about that himself. Ladies and gentlemen, I am so excited to present to you Matt Cardona. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Cody. Thank you for having me. Finally, about time. I could have used the rub when I was on the indies. Yeah, no, no. No, I mean, I came, well, when you were on the path, when you were on the Indies, I came and did your podcast one time, correct? Well, you did it like via satellite. Remote. Remote. You're here in person. Which is really the only way to do it.

2:07Yeah, yeah. I've been on your podcast before, but it was you and KO burying me. Yeah, we'll talk about that. We should talk about that. You have Louis Vuitton shoes on, huh? I do, yeah. You are incredibly well-dressed. Well, I didn't want to, you know. No, I mean, but this is a look here. You have the whole thing. You have the logo on the cuff. As you see, right? Yeah, I see. Show the camera. In terms of this fit, you've followed this model basically since you left. I mean, following the journey when you were out there and seeing everything you did, is this the new, in terms of the complete Matt Cardona?

2:46No, I think if I'm backstage on SmackDown, I'm not in the suit. But like you, you got to carry yourself like a star. right especially on the indies it's you wear you wear a suit in the indies oh my god it's like you're the president that's somebody yeah but that's helpful it is that that guy or that girl has some information they they know what's going on uh they're here for a reason oh i bet you that's what the line is for right you uh also big proponent i recently found this out in bringing water water to the locker room correct no no i want there to be water water needs to be there i'm not saying i'm the one bringing it but now in wwe i mean there's water bottles everywhere the trainer yeah locker room catering by gorilla it's unbelievable but you you were shocked to find on the indie scene not every locker room i just couldn't believe you can't get a case of water was it 499 and it truthfully became your part of your arrangement with independent promoters it was never that's not real it was never official i didn't need water okay well then i don't want to fall into the category of the you know cody are we so glad you said yeah uh there is a lot of concern on what's a cody lie what's myth what's legend what's reality and i didn't want you to feel uncomfortable coming on the podcast sure so i have a list oh here we go and i want you to just read the glasses yeah let me get my glasses real quick i want you to read them all those are those real do you need to be wearing those are they for the look well i need to look at the paper here uh read these aloud and if you don't like any of these or don't want to talk about any of them we don't have to uh but uh yeah perfect if you just read those a lot locker room checker okay not true cody lie cody lie okay i understood we won't touch that one went through my gear without permission are we telling this though i mean we told this a million times no but that is not a cody live correct do any just read the topics and if any of them sticks out there's some context i did go through your bag there was permission okay okay crumbs make crumb cake that's a famous you're saying you taught me that i quit wwe because of you i quit oh you could because you had to lose to me that is true i didn't quit i walked out yeah you quit i was fired i was working my ass if i got fired you quit god never missed a wrestlemania boo-hoo okay uh the shipping cost on your lightsaber okay that's true you paid for the shipping cost and at the time i'm just an indie guy right or was i I still would.

5:13I think you're still with the company. Man, but that was, I mean. To be fair, I thought. To stick me with that bill for your Kylo Ren lightsaber. Do you still have it? I have mine. I have mine. Hell yeah. Not buying drinks even though you're rich. So when we go out, often I've noticed the wallet doesn't come out. Oh, that's a f***ing Cody lie. Can we curse it on that? Sorry. It's quite all right. We'll file that away as a Cody lie. That's a lie. Okay. Run in practice? Did I catch you the other week at TV running on the slick black floor? Because it's very slippery. And you didn't want to fall.

5:46I didn't want to fall. Always ready. But you did it in a not so subtle way. You were literally starting at Gorilla and sprinting. Well, you can't half-ass it. I get it. You can't be half-pregnant. But this is at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. Well, that's what rehearsal should be. I understand. To rehearse. Practice makes perfect. That's right. Yes. Oh, Lord. That's Brandy. That's her saying. I know, but you also... You know what? I won't even touch that one. Okay. It's your show, Cody. It's your show. What's on page number two? These are my notes. We're very professional here. We have our notes.

6:14You're always ready. I'll have these. You are always ready. Yes, I'll try. So, what are you drinking? I'm drinking the Long Island Loudmouth. Had some Wheatley vodka, some other things. Love that. A little lower third, right? What are you drinking there? This is a Wheatley American Duel. Trying to give me a drug? It's not. It's ant water. Let me smell it. Get in there. Get in there. Do you want to smell it? No, I trust you. No, I got you. Cheers to you. this is uh very good yeah and you're right by i mean the well it's like a long island i would imagine the long island lao mouth is a long island iced tea but with wheatley vodka long island ice z there it is rest in peace though he's he's gone that's it right uh zach ratter needed to die for matt cardona to live very very uh wow wow i've said a bunch of times can you tell i actually really like it you're by the you're by the wellspring of the good stuff too because you're here at the buffalo trace distillery wheatley american vodka providing this isn't it yeah i like it it's a good vibe here yeah i actually a couple little touches for you here i don't know if you see that i can't say it out loud but you know what that is right i do i do and then uh the hulk ski for you as well very cool so i i know that's a roller coaster like hulk like roller coaster islands like not my thing that's a lie that's a lie once you came to hhn with me you were you were like i'm not a roller coaster high i need some theming i don't want to like roller coaster high five dude that was a cool coaster bro what did you used to say i don't want to see the parking lot that was your big thing man that breaks you that easily yeah i don't want to you know the immersion you need the immersion because you're in a world filled with immersion is that it that's my reasoning for it if i do all this to escape i want to escape yeah if i'm there i want to be there you know a new segment we do uh our friends at wwe2k right now if you could I guess yeah fantasy book yeah yourself in any dream match you've got 400 something roster members you've got uh men can wrestle women now three stages of hell has been added to the game it's the best it's ever been uh obviously you just came back not in the game well you just came back so uh give us give us your match without you I suppose in terms of what what would you do well maybe we can create a player that they solve that yeah you can create me maybe i'm downloadable eventually let's be positive sure right what about uh is brandy in the game you know i think you'd have to create the it could be me and chelsea versus you and brandy oh wow yeah is it what's the difference between mixed tag and intergender can't which can the like men i think intergender the men can hit the women yeah and then mixed tag it's got it that's awkward thing where the tag happens and then the other one just fades away yes yes okay so you uh put put together this dream match what type of match is it how does it go who wins All right, my fantasy booking match is Chelsea Green versus you.

9:03Whoever wins has to pay for a VIP tour at Disney. Jeez, and they're up there now price-wise. They're up there now, yeah. Okay. And I want to do the rise, not just sitting down on the benches like you and Brandi like to do. Closed-toed shoes. Yeah, I'm saying. We're moving. Yeah, yeah, no flip-flops, you know? Yeah, yeah, I got you. And we got to go all the rides, all the hits. You versus Chelsea. Whoever wins pays for the VIP tour. What type of match? Ooh, can we do a ladder match? Okay, ladder match. Ladder match, yeah. And you think Chelsea, like, climbing the ladder is going to climb the ladder?

9:34I think so. Yeah? I know I'm not in the game yet, but when I'm in, I'll come. If you're up there, I'll shove you over. You know? Okay. Put her on my shoulders and walk her up, you know? Savage Liz style. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow, all right. We'll deal on an actual. I think we should actually, we can make a full bet about it. Okay, yeah, let's do it, yeah. That's for real. Yeah. Dude, that's so crazy you mentioned that because I actually get to give you the news. again you're booking this segment as a fantasy booker and you're talking about not being in the game which is because you just came back not to be contentious but actually 2K has allowed me to be the one to tell you you will be downloadable the latest WWE 2K there it is thank you as Matt Cardona that's pretty damn cool I think we've all talked about it t-shirt, action figure video game you get those three you've made it Okay, that's great.

10:23That's a stiff handshake. Yeah, I'm getting old, dude. I wear glasses now. You lie about your age, don't you? Huh? You still lie about your age? How would I lie about my age? You lie about your height. No BS. Bro, the one time I went to the park with you and you had those new shoes on, I'm not going to say their names, that were on Instagram, they give you the extra inch. Yeah, and every photo leaned forward. You're the one who goes with a sleeveless shirt oiled up. I've never oiled up, no. You've never gone sleeveless? I've gone sleeveless hoodie, yes, I have. I don't want to get noticed, guys.

10:54I don't want to get noticed. American Nightmare jacket, American Nightmare hat. No, that's not. You're laughing because you know it's true. We did a shoot recently. I don't want to get noticed. Oh, man. We mentioned it on your sheet of my notes here. Crumbs make crumb cake. That's right. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. You know? Hands up together. And is that why you're never one to buy the drinks when people go out? Is that? That's a. Can I curse? It's a lie, Cody. You know it's a lie. It's bullshit. That one gets you. I actually hate when people pay for me. Yeah? I hate it. Like, if you ever offer it for dinner, I hate it.

11:34I don't think I've got that sentiment from you. You're about 35 wizard brews behind, bro.

11:42With the wizard brew, you got to have the fire whiskey at the bar. You have it right there. You can't walk away with it. This is a deep cut about. You have to have the fire whiskey there. You can't have the two drinks. You can't be walking around with two. You get the double fire whiskey. And that's where things go. That's where things can go. That's where things can go, yeah. My gosh, I'm so excited to have you back. I'm excited to be back. Yeah. It's been a while. There were certainly times where I didn't think it was going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And then you and KO buried me for wanting to come back.

12:12Remember that? Well, I asked KO a question that then led to that moment. I'm just busting the balls. No, no, no. You certainly didn't defend me at all. Yeah, you just laughed. You've hit it four or five times already, so I got it. I chuckled, and that was with my friend Kevin. Let me ask you this. You come back. Who calls you? Who's the person who puts in the call? Man, we peel back the curtain here? Unless you don't want to. That's fine with me. I'll do the condensed version. I'm working for TNA, but not technically under contract. TNA does the invasion of NXT, and they asked to have me and i know i'm not under contract but i'm like i'm not gonna i'm gonna sneak in sure i'll do it do that leads to a match and chelsea was doing uh i guess media for rumble in saudi always doing media and nick khan was there okay and she said to nick like something like you see my husband wrestle nxt nick said something like i've always wanted to yeah you know meet your husband talk to your husband give him my number so okay she gave me nick khan's number you know i'm texting immediately right away and then uh nick called me right there i said what do you want i said i want to come back yeah and the ball kind of got rolling from there now that you're back and that's thank you for sharing i mean there's a lot of ups and downs but we'd be here for no but you you that sometimes uh throughout flirting with it many many times yeah and then getting getting here where you're back i believe 2019 again these are real notes in terms of the last title you held in WWE?

13:482019, yeah. Yeah, so 2019. What is it that you want to do next? Man, fortunate to be tag team champion twice. Yeah. US champ, IC champ. I believe you were in the match, so technically I beat you. WrestleMania. I mean, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be the WWE champ. That's the title. I think you and I are alike. We didn't just want to be wrestlers. We didn't just want to be WWE superstars. We want to be the WWE champion. so why not swing for it no and i think that i think putting that out there is ultimately like that's part of this whole process i mean that's the goal ever since i was a little kid and um you know when i got fired when i got released like it wasn't how am i gonna get back there of course it's always in the back of my mind yeah but every day like i list like my goals in my head not that number one goal is the w champion you can't be the w champion unless you're in wwe Sure.

14:39So I had to get back there. I like that. Yeah. Well, here's to the goals. Yeah. Here's the goals. Question for you. I don't know if you remember this. That is good. Thank you. This is very good as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you again, Wheatley American Vodka. You get released from WWE and you called me. I did. And do you remember? It's just a funny moment in the call. I don't think you remember it, but I remember it like it was yesterday. It wasn't a call I was expecting. I think I was at the Nightmare Factory or whatever. It happens. You called me and told me. And I didn't say anything. Like, I kind of just, like, lingered upon you telling me.

15:12And do you remember what you said? I do not. You go, you got to say something. And I, like, it was so jarring because that was a day that a lot of releases were happening. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by WWE 2K26. You want to talk about legacy? You want to talk about the moments that define your life? That's what WWE 2K26 is all about. In this game, the show never stops. You want to talk about history. WWE 2K26 has the biggest roster ever assembled. Over 400 playable WWE superstars and legends. From the rebellious heart of the Attitude Era to the undeniable champions of today. You want to talk about action?

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16:56Now we've talked about the call. Coming back, you're here, of course. you uh more than a great many of people clearly you deserve to be here you deserve this moment and the moments that are coming to you sure what what's the first thing that comes to mind when you did get released in terms of did you have a plan i think a lot of people look at you because of how well you promoted yourself how high production values which we'll talk about that you put into your work did you have a plan because it looked like you did or did you not did not have a plan right so when i got released it was the very beginning of the pandemic uh there was nowhere else to really work there was no independence to yeah the world was shut down uh also the year prior i don't want to say everybody in wwe but everyone i knew got offered five five year new deals and i didn't take it because i didn't know if i wanted to stay or go because my career had a lot of highs and lows like as everybody's does uh so i wasn't sure and the anxiety for that whole year like am i gonna stay am i gonna go am i gonna say am i gonna go when i got fired it was like they made the decision for me yeah it was like this this instant weight off my shoulders and like i needed to get fired i needed to go out there and find who was matt cardona yeah the zach rider guy it was great you know i'm so grateful for it the woo woo was awesome but it had to change and it wasn't going to change in that wwe environment so i just i had to get let go um yeah no no real plan because like i said like there's nowhere to go yeah there's no indies I applaud because I feel like and I would not usually put this guy over on this podcast but I will hear Drew McIntyre somebody who left or was released and found his way and then started finding I can make noise I can bang the drum loud enough that my friends at WWE the higher ups are looking he's doing it something that I was very impressed with is you spent a lot you invested again like a classic invest in yourself but when you're what's it called the ecto cooler what is it when you're the one yeah ecto one when you're driving in a ecto one ghostbusters official vehicle into independent shows where they didn't even know how to get a car in the parking lot for that matter and then you're you're working with promoters you're working with promotions like gcw you're trying to give these big visuals and this high production value which works because that's the character you are you've been at wwe but also it's a little bit of a nudge you guys could use this too it's not that don't don't try and be too cool for school go go big um i i thought it was really incredible and i thought you took what drew had done a little bit of what i had done and i think you made it very very much a different blueprint and i appreciate I appreciate that.

19:46And I certainly stole from you. I stole from Drew, but I added my own flavor. And I was the WWE guy in the indies. Yeah. And I was going to make people hate me for being the WWE guy. Right. So I win the GCW world title in this death match. Call myself the death match king. I only had one death match. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like people to this day at autograph signings, oh, I love all those death matches. I did one. You did the one. But I took that title. I made it a spinner. I made it Velcro. I called it the GCW universe. If you're going to hate me for being a WWE guy, you're going to really hate me for being a WWE guy.

20:18Sure. And I treated every big show like it was WrestleMania. Yeah. Because if I'm not treating it like WrestleMania, then why am I even doing it, you know? Sure. I wanted to ask about you're going into this match with Nick Gage. Yep. And it's an iconic shot that everyone who works in a wrestling company that makes money from men and women falling down in a ring saw a clip. Yeah. Saw whether it was you walking to the ring in one of the most contentious moments are saw you getting pelted with beer cans and all kinds of things after uh were you nervous only and this is my thought um we don't have to talk about companies or this person you wrestled specifically but what you were doing was not your forte no what you were doing was was a death match and we look it up folks yeah it's what you were doing was that were you nervous because i always found you to be a bit of a skittish yeah but you were you were an old school type wrestler skittish is not the word we're not supposed to really hurt each other right we got to do it again tomorrow night now it should look like we do you know like the bret hart yes thought of make this look amazing but we need to do it every night a little bit i'm a little snug obviously i know you're uh and chelsea has reiterated that not snug but rather considered rather stiff um were you nervous going in and what what are your thoughts pre nick gage death match and post because this is this is a point where you got everyone's attention yes so this is a couple months into my indie run who is matt cardona i didn't even know i knew am i just zach rider with my own name that sucks right i needed to find myself i thought about like people are gonna want to see zach rider get carved up by nick gage and i knew it would create buzz but i did not anticipate the amount of buzz it would create like it changed my career changed my life like social media it's a big deal I'm the internet champ right but like that night it trended number one that match over the Olympics and like an independent wrestling show in Atlantic State New Jersey yeah because people whether they bought yeah or they want to just read about it or see it on Twitter yeah they wanted to see had to look and see what you were doing exactly yeah and then the fact that I won oh man and it was I didn't dip my toe in it I did a cannonball to that death match it wasn't it wasn't a street fight there was the the pizza cutters the glass the light tubes like if I was going to do it I was going to do it and i knew i'd get a little bloody so i wore like all white like a like a white t-shirt but that white shirt was maroon afterwards just covered in blood um after it would you do one ever again i'm not saying i would never do it again great yeah but like the the circumstances need to be right the opponent the story the money oh wow okay yeah crumbs make crumb cake right that's right i got that on my notes No friends, it's your business.

23:11Okay. I asked this because you said something. Yeah. There was a story. Yes. There's such an argument online about, oh, the spots. Oh, the storytelling. Cinema versus. And I don't think people realize it's both. It's everything. And when it's everything, it works. And here's the story. I remember there was a tag match that followed me one time. I had wrestled Ethan Page. and I thought we did a great job and we had a crowd that was already a little contentious and I was getting booze and things were happening but I we I knew we killed it right but then there was a match that followed us and six people on x liked it and it was it was indulgent there was no story to it it didn't they worked super hard it wasn't a matter of not working but if you're gonna do the death match as we're talking about here and we don't have to circle this forever right if there's not a story then it's just indulgent if that makes it someone up with a like it's 100 % yes and that's why I I I kind of have liked the ones that I've seen and yours is one that I if you see yours you may not need to see others like to have a story going into it afterwards though this happens there's photos of the hotel the bed all the that would you would you say you you didn't regret it right not one day goes by where i regret it instantly in the moment i knew this is this is going to change my career okay yeah and it did it did i don't think i'd be sitting here if it wasn't for that match yeah i don't think i'd be back in wwe if it wasn't for that match and everything i did on the indie specifically gcw let me ask you a question uh because i asked kevin this question before that happened i was trying to go somewhere else god bless my boy kevin um uh who do you think right now is out there who is kind of the face of the independent scene because i think you stayed a year longer than i anticipated you to stay you if that makes any sense i felt i stayed four years longer than i just okay yeah like you fill a block oh my gosh look at what they're doing and then it's like okay he's coming home yeah oh nope all right he's still doing it right and then you found new layers you had to and that was the toughest part every single year how do i how do i top last year how do i you know if you're making the towns yeah how do you come back how do you get the promoter to still want to pay for you how do you still get the fans still want to get your eight by ten your t-shirt you know your meet and greet so you had to keep reinventing and it was tough but it was so much i love the hustle that's one thing i miss about the wwe i don't get to carry my merch bags there's no merch bags so that's the one thing i miss you You told me something about the hustle.

25:55Yeah. I don't know if you'll like me sharing this. It will probably fall into the Cody Lye category, but it's not. You said that you love the feeling of taking cash and putting it in your fanny pack. You said it was orgasmic. True. It's the greatest feeling in the world. Okay. Because meeting those fans at these conventions or before the show, I wouldn't yell at the other wrestlers who were going over their matches beforehand but i was like guys it's not about okay yes it's about this money but it's about making the connection with this audience right like you're making this face-to-face interaction you're selling whatever you're talking to them you're taking a picture like they might remember that for the rest of their lives yeah and then the oh i'm a heel blah blah that's a cop out right you you just know no one of the biggest cop outs why don't you just be an absolute absolute asshole don't sell a thing and then when you come out through the curtain they'll be even louder yeah like what are we doing here well again like story this confusion about what it all is and you said it best it's everything connection if i didn't know someone and i met them at the table yeah and i'm waiting for that guy but i met this guy i now have someone i am rooting for or man this guy i don't like him one bit what i now have someone i'm rooting against it's the same thing when today wrestling and i've seen this at the nightmare factor i'm sure you've seen this everyone can do everything it seems like sure Oh, what move?

27:17And they're just getting better and better. The athletics, better athletes, better skills, the high spots are through the roof. But when I say something, I never mean it in that heavy-handed, like, well, how's your promo? But to me, I always tell the kids at the factory, I said, that's the ticket to a career now. If you can talk in a way, not a fake sales pitch, if you can talk in a way that they are interested. I like him. That, like, classic old-school booker, name him, whoever it was, that's my guy. That's my guy. Yeah, like, yeah, you know, this one does some cool stuff too, but that's my guy.

27:52There's a connection to it. And I feel like that's something that has been very hard to say. And you know how everything is so polarizing now. You're either on one side of the fence. It's crazy when you sit in the middle and like, no, this is like Javon. Javon right now has got a reinventive style. But getting to know Javon makes you even more excited about the reinvented style. Getting to know Javon gets you more excited about the dumb thing he's going to do. because now you have a hope that i hope he hits it yeah yeah i hope it don't oh man you know the versus again indulgence and just doing it for the sake of doing it i feel very on a high horse over all this and i'm not trying to be but you know because like the old the old time guys are like well it's not about the five stars they they make it so contentious right out of the gate it's not it's it's everything if uh if that makes any sense um i tell i tell people on the indies all the time when they asked me for advice like i say like hogan rock wrestlemania 18 one of my favorite matches of all time if now you know arguably one of the greatest if you just took two random indie wrestlers to do that match move for move it would suck because it's not about the moves yeah it's about the connection those guys had with the audience the story that match was telling it's not okay moves are great it's so much more than just moves and people might hate me for saying that maybe i don't have so many no i heard somebody say uh well if you watch it with the sound off it's not any good and i wanted to be like and excuse my language uh uh who the f*** is watching it with a sound you know what i'm saying talking about the face of the indies you having stayed a bit longer than i thought do you have someone uh that you're looking at right now i have one that i just found okay uh and don't i don't know enough all right let me can i say mine yes go ahead you're a guest i have two yeah and i i've seen these guys all over the place and I think effort is very important to me huge who is trying shaming bro yeah yeah who's trying on social media Tommy Invincible well Tommy Invincible is great but that's not one of my picks okay okay that's not your pick because I feel like and I would say this to guys and girls all the time like if you don't want to if you want to put your phone away for the week WWE is going to post about you Netflix WWE shop ESPN blah blah Wheatley really right if if when I was on the indies I didn't post about me who's going to do it sure so i would say ben bishop and richard holiday are my two guys okay richard holiday who post a lot who advance their stories who will do the the cell phone promo that nobody wants to do right oh can you send me this promo no one wants to do that but you have to so right both those guys uh yes ben ben bishop and richard holiday my two guys there's many there's many other guys and girls out there yeah but they're the two that come to mind i it was actually andrew schultz when i was doing street fighters the one who told me about tommy invincible okay and i watched him who clearly looks like he's stolen a lot of your playbook well i love to i need to i need to i need to look at these two guys here's my question for you though are we are you selling two guys i don't know enough sure i clearly i've gone full corporate sure i'm in my own bubble now like i'll even put my glasses on for it you know so corporate cody here i am uh is uh is um are the are they good though like if you are they good in terms of because i think the moves do matter a little bit i think they're good i think they're perfect wwe superstars okay is does that mean though i don't want to see a rear chin lock in 2026 you're you don't like holds right i know i love a hold because the point of a hold is not to rest right when i hear like no the rest when i hear like a 20 year old like oh he's got him in a rest hole or i heard matt cox earlier say that bobby eden no sold something and i said let's stop yeah bobby never did anything wrong in his life he's bobby eden but the point of a hold is so that the crowd catches up sure and digest everything digest everything and starts to come for the person that they want to are are the point of a hold is to hang on to that heat now that's not happening for your guy yet to get the crowd because they are the other man in the ring absolutely 100 the other person in the ring to get by that's the point of hold however in the 90s some of my heroes ruined holds by throwing on that rear chin and just looking out look at her yeah turn this way look at that chick so that that's a nightmare factory rule no rear chins unless you're uh over 50 is the joke okay and we have one guy who there is over 50 okay he puts it on yeah yeah but there's a carat isn't that much yeah yeah you know not the carat guy yeah it's hard to put on what was i asking you about and they've gone into this restaurant are they good you said are they good i think so all right i wrestled them both okay yeah and and and and their future you think are you helpful to those it's hard to be in the position you're in in the position you're in now it's hard when you see people you want to help yep they need to help themselves first sure but do you feel you're helpful as a buddy or is it hey anytime someone asks for advice i give it or if there's something i can do i give it the one piece of advice i give everybody is it's easy but the advice is easy yeah don't quit of course you might make it if you don't quit you definitely won't make it if you do and that's the advice that i would tell myself every day in the mirror yeah you know these past five five and a half years yeah did you ever verbally say it don't quit that's a strong image man looking at thinking of what you were doing there were so many times i'm thinking like what else do i have to do yeah to get back here like i was with sdl for a while step the lander yeah and i would call her came to meet and greet with stardust one time right i think she did yeah he's great but when chelsea left i knew i needed a new ballet and i'm like okay let me get someone different my wife i heat her someone who's tall who can beat somebody up at one point i'm like you need to get away from me because you're not getting a w with me like that's i'm like stay away because i'm like i'm not getting back yeah yeah oh you consider yourself toxic that's right interesting because i was like if i'm not getting back now i ain't getting back so get away from me because i'm not your meal ticket they don't really make them like you anymore in a sense that there are a few left and i'm not saying it's probably it's cyclical the industry so things come back and policy change and protocol change but you you coined a term to me one time that i loved you said uh you know i'm gonna go to the gym i'm gonna go tan i'm gonna be there early i'm gonna be well dressed i'm not gonna leave at the middle of the show god forbid i'm not gonna leave at the beginning of the show i watched the other day i watched the walk right by me where are you going what if someone gets hurt at least sneak out yeah that's the other thing i'm almost not mad at you leaving early you're blatantly doing it back bro bags by gorilla yeah while the last two matches go in that's a classic yeah that's that i get that you're oh he's i'm still here yeah yeah yeah but i won't be right you know but just making room in the locker room right in front of me and then you ask like why are the same guys on wrestlemania i'll tell you why that that's part of it um anyways where were we on uh i said no but all these things when i brought them up to you like that's crazy that's crazy that such and such doesn't want to do that appearance that's crazy that yeah before i came back you were telling me some things like people like say no to things i couldn't well it's just a different and again i i everyone has to adjust sure different different era creature comforts different era i'm not right but i think the way i was trained and brought up i value that more like oh it's cool to put in effort i'm not going to wear sweatpants on a run it right you know which i might have worn sweatpants on a run they probably had the logo on it of course you know what i'm saying like branding yeah like i and uh and i and i and about that and now that you're plugged plugged into the system do you feel uh a responsibility to be more of that are you trying to adjust to what wwe is now no i'm definitely going to be myself and control what i can control i mean it's been said to death but that's all we can really do at this point right especially someone like me you come in here like i knew coming back to wwe like i cannot hit a home run if i'm not in the game yeah if i'm not even on the team i just i I just need to get back because I can't, like I said, I can't be WWE champion if I'm not in WWE.

35:54Sure. So now that I'm here, I'm going to do whatever I can. And if I'm not, you know, let's say one week I'm not doing much, I'm still going to show up like I'm in the main event. Sure. Dressed to impress, so to speak. Yeah. Have brand new gear or nice looking gear. Good physique, good tan. Control what I can control. That's it. Bobby Roode and I would talk about you. Shout out to Bobby Roode, by the way, because he was watching you do your run in practice. And we were giggling. he was always saying like he's always ready yeah seen a dude seen it too like he's in shape and and that became a thing I went on a rant one time we don't have to circle it too long with LA Knight about well how do you feel about guys who don't go to the gym and uh we we had strong feelings about it let's not talk I mean and then but then I realized I'm like it is a different era yeah it really is and I want to kind of know like okay what's what's the new thing like why not what's is it because you've seen this or sure I don't know or is it you do it but you don't want people to know because i think a problem with you and i as we speak is we're letting everyone know oh here's all the things i did yep yep you know here's all the things and i think that's that's kind of nerdy in itself like we get it bro you know like i had my story time stamped yesterday you see i was in two different cities guys i was all bad so but but that's you got to do that that's my generation of hey not everyone knows what you're doing always i hate this saying but perception is reality right it really is if you carry yourself like a star you're perceived to be a star i uh i think one of the coolest things about sitting with you in this moment i've just kind of been uncovering it is you you've we're always looking for who we are right like you know the glasses are funny or whatever like you know i'll try things here and there we're always looking for who we are and i remember chris van vliet of all people one time asked me is are you always in character and in the way he said it it it almost hurt hurt me because i couldn't tell it's like man maybe maybe like maybe i just can't ever escape the idea of talking about a wrestling match or thinking about will this lean into a wrestling will this help us sell tickets it was a it to this day it's like a haunting question but one of the things i got out of that moment was I think I'm more than ever aware of who I am I haven't fully discovered it but I think I'm aware of who I am the coolest thing about sitting here with you now is you're explaining the process but I don't think you need the process anymore because it seems like you know who you are like you're saying all these things for the well hey dress for success right perception is reality you're saying all the things we were brought up on but I don't think you realize it's just who you are now yeah I definitely think it's like it's not performative it's not right like Like, sure.

38:35You came here and you, like, this is you now. Right. Dude, that's. Like, going to the gym later after this, like, it's not, it's just part of the day. It's part of the job. It's like going to the bathroom, going to the gym. And you're saying it now, so you're, you know. Yeah. I mean, but that's it. No, but it's real. And I think a lot of people will say stuff to me talking about, I remember this was a problem I had when I was away from WWE. Like, oh, you're always trying to look better than everybody. And I never meant it that way. Yes. no i just this feels like me well the best version of yourself right it's not it's not your fault that someone's not yeah i don't dress in you know a certain way again like mediocrity loves company right and every what what's so strange about saying like timothy chalamet was on this podcast and he's famous for the pursuit of excellence yes it's not strange to pursue excellence and i feel like i hope people know when they see you that it's just you now like yes we keep track of it And yeah, that's part of the daily life of a wrestler who grew up in our era of OVW and Deep South.

39:38And in our era of that, that was all about we've got to do all these things. But now they're who we are. And I think, if anything, I have thought it gave me an edge over the competition. Because when I put stuff out about, hey, here's all I did, or here's what I'm doing today, here's what I'm doing tomorrow, part of it is a little bit of a middle finger to the others. It should be. It should light a fire up. Part of it is a little bit of, hey, this is a lonely position, but if you wanted it, right, come and get it. And like Sina was like that. And it's weird that we didn't see it, but we did see it, you know, and it's just a great model.

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41:01To enter, all you have to do is text CODY42 to FORTHEPEOPLE. That's CODY42 to 484-373-6753 and follow the prompts. Don't miss out on your chance to watch WrestleMania 42 live. Just text CODY42 to FORTHEPEOPLE. No purchase necessary. opened to legal residents of the 48 contiguous United States and D.C. who are 18 and older. Sweepstakes ends March 29, 2026. This is a paid advertisement. I want to ask you something. Do you know the full story? Do you know the full story of when I left WWE? What happened that day? I beat you. You were stardust and quit? Yes. those are the the uh those are those are the notes um did we do like a disney podcast a theme park podcast we did one with jericho yeah uh that day um but i beat you on yeah but do you know the story of me and road dog in that day do you know you might have told me it's it's me again today Tell the world.

42:11I love Road Dogg. Sure. He's been very good as a coach for me, right? Back then, we were all learning our new things. And he, I think, was a producer at the time. He had just become a producer. He kind of weeble wobbled in and out of it. You and I wrestled six, seven, eight times. Main event, superstars. We were always happy to wrestle because it was a fresh crowd. Absolutely. Crowd was hot. What an opportunity, too. Like the opportunity, not fake use of the word. a real opportunity to get the crowd excited. I see that a lot today when somebody's going out for a main event match. Like I just saw Royce Keys, formerly Will Hobbs, go do one, and I thought, man, he took advantage of that.

42:49You got to. He didn't just think of that as like, oh, this is a rep for, no, this is a rep for you. It's a way to touch this audience. He took advantage of it the same way we did. But we'd gone back and forth on finishes. You would go over. I would go over. You would go over. There wasn't a method to this madness. and I to this day love this quote because I've actually now used it but uh I came up to him I said hey me and Matt are wrestling and this is like the eighth time we've wrestled in three months uh what do you want out of this like who's over do you know what he said doesn't matter something like he goes does it really matter and I thought no and I remember I went to you I was like he wants you over yeah finish you know eight minutes what do you want to do whatever and i knew that that does it really matter i wasn't mad at him i was of the thought this moment doesn't we're about getting this crowd excited our narratives are not going anywhere in terms of uh we're not we're not trying to build upon something that doesn't exist and there are certain moments in wrestling that's and certain psychologies and things where it's oh that's so wrong or that's so right you you do find yourself in those scenarios where i have now said does it really matter right uh you know like or maybe overthinking the point here uh but that was that was one of my favorite things the fact that i could go to you and essentially lie and say like oh he said like oh you over with your friend and then i knew because i don't think i told you no no no yeah i don't think i told you that because you know the talent relations guy that's what he said to me on the way out he's like i'll see you next week and i loudly said no you won't and uh and uh i kept going and then i wasn't there the next week sammy zane always talks about he was booked against me on the live events and i wasn't there and he like selfishly is like well i had to wrestle so like it's all like funny i was going through it too yeah i didn't know if you knew the full like how the day went but it was it's kind of it's funny to me that it was you that is funny uh i did all your moves the elbow the wood awakening awakening uh the wood awakening stall suplex you got to give me the suplex i counter you but you land and you always tell people you'd give them the spacing i need some space you need some space i remember we did it over a ladder that was tricky one yeah i didn't want to land in the ladder um remember when you uh told me to give you a minute because you asked me asked me to power bomb you and you knocked the wind out of yourself or i knocked the window you might have uh a little too snug you know yeah start us with his signature power bomb um well speaking of the power bomb what's your least favorite bump to take least favorite bump to take um i hate chops that's not even a bump Yeah.

45:33You know? Chop, chop, chop. You got to be in the mood for chops. Yeah, you got to be in the mood. It's going to be like deep in the match. Yeah. It needs to be like a war. Well, you know what I've now. Yeah. I think of a chop like. Yeah. Oh, I remember like once like Mojo like snap married me on a live event. Dude, we should talk about that. He snap married me and then like ran the ropes and chopped me in the back. I just got up and no sold it and slapped him in the face. Oh. Do you remember your quote about Mojo? Let's not talk negatively about anybody here. You've played as much NFL football as him.

45:59That's true. Zero games. come on i love mojo i love being well the one of the worst matches i ever had in my life a great man in charlotte north carolina one of my favorite moments ever bro uh busted his nose on the entrance it's me and mojo against you and adam rose oh my gosh as stardust me is that me and then adam rose okay yeah his nose doing his hype bros entrance i don't know if it was on the entrance but i think it was during his his shine and then we have to go home because of the blood and you're you're hot I was furious. I remember you walked off and you smacked this coffee cup out of some lady's hands.

46:31It wasn't in a lady's hands. It was on a trash can. I remember it was Charlotte. It was. I thought, guys, this was a major market. I couldn't be hot at you, but that guy was such, I don't know. I don't want to get into it. I don't know him at all. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. Great guy. Yeah, no. I remember thinking, again, low after low after low. These are almost accidental at this point. that when it rains, it pours. With chops, you said you're not a fan of chops. What I'm not a fan of, the guys who now have the signature chop, like you know their chops are so much. So you go into it without thinking, like you're thinking about that chop versus there's a couple guys who have an old school skill of warming a chop up.

47:15And I don't even know, I didn't know that was a skill until someone did it with me recently where they gave me one, then the next one had more, and then the next one versus that first one coming across. And I thought, this is a skill. Yes. It's also a bit of like, hey, hit me, dude. I'm going to hit you. Hit me, hit me. You know, and I, so interesting on the chops. Listen, I can't complain about someone hitting me because I'm a little snug in there. Arne Anderson told me I was too pretty. So I had to lay it in a little bit. Who's your favorite producer to work with? Coming back, it's been different.