Hot Chip Aftermath, WhatsApp Groups and Holding Grudges

0:14Romesh Ranganathan:Welcome to the Wolf and Owl email special. Full disclosure, we're recording this straight after the main episode where we did a hot chip challenge. Although we didn't do the full hot chip challenge. We ate probably what? I literally had a nibble of it and I'm in pieces here. By the way, my respect for you is fucking, you were incredible. I was incredible actually. That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen you do. It's a low bar. But, are you alright? No, I literally might, it's like, you know, like a bird. Yeah. As soon as a bird eats, it needs a shit. Do you really feel like, do you feel like you could shit right now?

0:50Yeah. Like a fucking fiery big shit. I'm in bits. I'm loathe to make two episodes in a row where that becomes a main part of content, but I'm literally in absolute pieces.

1:06Such acid reflux. I can't stop. I sort of feel like I'm just going to be sat there for the whole list like that.

1:14Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, should you do some of us? For a weekend at Bernie's. Oh, it's not nice when it moves into your stomach, is it? No. My tongue, my esophagus, everything's, it's ruffled everything in my body. And you've not even had any milk. I'm trying to delay it as long as possible. Okay, should we do some emails? Hello, Wolf and Al. I'm the confident Capybara. For the past few months, I've developed a terrible habit of waving at people I don't recognise, just in case I do know them. I feel like I'm going to be going into these almost drunk. This is actually the closest I've felt to being drunk in quite a while.

1:48Romesh Ranganathan:It started as a polite half-wave, but now it's a full-arm commitment. Last week, I waved at a stranger in a car, then panicked and waved again to make it look intentional. my question is how do i stop this before i'm known as a local maniac or do i fully commit and start public facing role like mayor how do you pronounce that word mayor yeah i say mayor what really that's my natural i deliberately changed it then but normally i say mayor fucking hell it's starting to kick in now really it's good that it's taken two episodes i've literally been doing okay i mean firstly i'm going to say now i actually think what you're doing is a beautiful thing and i think actually if i saw someone wave at me i've actually by the way i always when i see someone waving you know like someone waves and you think they're waving at you is it kicking in now yeah there we go how come it's taken so long like a sleeper cell

2:43um this is really a fucking bad idea to have come straight in and done this but uh i will wave back i love i love the thought of us living in a world where you wave strangers and that people

2:59and that people are just a bit more friendly.

3:06Romesh Ranganathan:It's burning inside me. It's so fucking molten, right? It's insane. I'm just, all I can think is, yeah, anyway.

3:18I think you should keep on waving. I think you should keep on waving. And I think it's a beautiful thing. I think what you're doing is really delicious and decent. And I think the more we as society come together and be nice, and I do think committing to it, and actually maybe if you feel this way inclined, being a mayor or a mayor and someone front-facing could actually be the one thing that we're lacking, that someone in politics is really good at. I do not anticipate this. I think I've got another email in me before everything explodes. I genuinely feel like the Death Star. And like Luke Skywalker has just flown into that little hole.

4:04Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, God. Rom, advice, please. It's fucking churning in my stomach. Yeah, I know. Mine's stuck here. Here. It just feels like acid inside. Yeah, it does. It feels like you've drunk acid. Like battery acid. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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5:24Romesh Ranganathan:Turn it up. Storm has zero sugar and 200 milligrams of caffeine, so you can turn that workout up a notch. Good energy in, good energy out. Energy for life. Okay. Can we just ask something? I just want to, and I hate to do this, but how many people have died having these? Why do you think you're going to die? Oh, I just feel awful. Go on, go on, go. What do you think of waving? I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think it's fine to wave at people. And I think you just own it and make it your thing. And, you know, waving's fine. And also, like a lot of the time, if they don't, if they don't recognize you, a lot of the time, my inclination, she's only waved at me and I didn't know them.

6:11Romesh Ranganathan:I would just either wave back or just go, shit, I don't remember where that person, where I know that person. I would never assume that that person's in the wrong. Yeah. I would always assume that I'm in the wrong. So I don't think there's any negative. Well, it's beautiful. I think what you're doing is incredible and you should be... God! Dear Wolf and Al, I am the Suspicious Sloth. I'm in several WhatsApp groups with friends, family and work. I need the milk. Every family, and convince every single one has a second secret group without me. The evidence is thin, but compelling delayed replies, inside jokes I don't understand, and people saying we've already discussed this when we definitely haven't been there.

6:49My question is, how do I make peace with the idea there's a second group, or should I start with my own without them? Sorry, a lot of this is down to the hot chip, and this is actually quite a... Fucking hell, this was insane. It's like a jackass stunt. Giving people fucking advice about their lives while we're both potentially fucking exploding. Look, I'm going to be quite honest and I'm going to cut to the point here because for once I've got no fucking flowers in me. If you think this is happening, there's very little you can do about it. Certainly don't start your own group without them. Let me finish, please.

7:29I don't know if I've got much more left in me. I'm dying. My point is this. there's very little you can do in a sense of controlling what people are doing behind your back or you know and there's someone who spends a lot of my life worrying about these things it's very hypocritical of me to say don't worry about it because it's a constant thing i worry about like most people i think we all worry about what other people are saying what other people are doing behind our backs the truth is this you've got to try and make an inner peace with it set up another group and you know where you talk about other people or you're being um you know mean or you know whatever about other people will not make you feel any better because that's not who you are as a person if that is them doing that let that be on them let them be they let them be the sort of people who are mean and you know disingenuous enough to have a group that is that's being horrible about you.

8:27And I would arguably say one of the things that I've learned in time is one of the best releases I've ever had is actually going, I had a lot of friends that I was friends with coming into my early 40s that I was like, these people are quite toxic and they're not making me feel any better about myself. And they're actually detracting from me feeling like a better version of me or a happy version of me. And some of that came down to bullying of other people or being mean about other people. And I felt, actually, that's not who I want to be. So I stepped away from a lot of those people. And since doing that, I feel a better version of myself.

9:05I don't feel like I necessarily have that side of me in my life. So I would say, yeah, my thoughts are with you. But keep doing what you're doing and be you and let them be the toxic ones. Sorry if this has been a bit muffled. I'd love to have heard the length of the answer

9:23Romesh Ranganathan:if Jan had a hot chip. That was about 45 minutes. I would say you've got two choices. Are you okay? Do you want to take a break while I'm doing my bit? No, I feel like I should be here and ride it out. Okay. You've got two choices. One, ask. I've asked before. What? I've said, is there a second group? Have you really? Yeah. That's fucking bold. And they said, no, of course there isn't. And then it was a bit embarrassing. but then you've asked, and then if there is a second group, they might think twice about... Or they just think, he fucking thinks of himself. Why? No, you think little of yourself.

10:03No, but if you're like... How did you say it? In what sense? Did you say it to one of them? I said, I'm starting to think

10:08Romesh Ranganathan:there might be a second... No, I said it on the group. Really? I think so. Well, maybe I'll message one person. Good on you. I mean, I respect that, but... Anyway, you've got two choices. One is ask the question, which... What horrible thing as well, by the way. What? Just start up a second group. We don't know for definite there is a second group. No, I'm just saying in general, because that is a thing, right? Yeah, definitely. That people start up a group about someone. Yeah, well, there's like three Wolf and L groups. I'm in one. Yeah. And the other thing you can do, and I think this is like the best way of tackling it, is to accept that there might be a second group and be fine with it.

10:45Romesh Ranganathan:You know, there may well be a second group where they're discussing things. If that is their choice, and as Tom says, if they decide to be like that, they decide to be like that. you need to find comfort in the discomfort. You know, people behave how they behave. If you spend your life trying to be in control of what everyone's doing and how people treat you, it just will lead to frustration. So the other question I would ask you is, if you think these are the sort of people that are creating a second group behind your back, are they the sort of people that you want to be given a lot of your time to?

11:18Romesh Ranganathan:You know? I think, you know, if I had a group, you know, with a group of friends, I'd only associate with people that wouldn't do that to me. And so if you are in a position, what's going on here? I actually started to build up some momentum. No, no, you're kidding me. I'm just literally just thinking where I can get some ice cream from. Is ice cream a good thing for that? Yes. Sugar and ice. Okay. And cream. Okay, no, I get you. And what I would say is, think about who you're giving your time and energy to. because if they're the sort of people that you suspect might be doing a second group, they're probably not for you.

11:54Exactly. Very well said. Thank you.

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12:49While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms.collegepc. How are you now? Describe to me what's going on. This here is fucking burning. Yeah. I feel like I literally, I'm like, I feel like I've got Satan having a part inside of my gut. Like he's just fucking dancing around his stupid old hooves.

13:12Romesh Ranganathan:Okay. Hello, Wolf and Al. I'm the overthinking otter. Every time I send a message, I reread it at least 12 times. spot a problem that doesn't exist and then spend the rest of the day convinced I've ruined a relationship I once edited a message three times just to remove an exclamation mark because it felt too needy my question is should I stop caring what people think or should I simply stop communicating with other humans altogether literally this could be me writing into this I don't think so grammatically it was all correct I've never heard of editing it I mean I do this all the time on a professional and a personal basis and everyone I interact with, including this wonderful gentleman who's one of the most kind, nourishing human beings.

13:54Not today, I've heard. Yeah, you've got a prick element today and I was hoping that that fucking hot shit would trip you up a bit and it's absolutely backfired and made me more needy and pathetic than I was when we started off this fucking podcast. Ooh. It's given me the needle. I'm in so much pain. My voice has started to go. I know. Yeah, it's absolutely brutalized me. um oh my god um but i i struggle with this all the time so and i don't really know an answer to it because i i sent three texts today in an email and all of them i'm sort of thinking i shouldn't have sent or i should have said something different should worded something different i mean literally we've done episodes and the fact that uh i probably shouldn't be allowed a phone but let me say this is that for the most part people read them and do not ever think in in any sense that you're being anything but kind or genuine or decent and most people to give that you know something someone said to me is most people scarcely even read it they just run their eyes over it and just go you know ping something back or whatever so i would say um don't stop communicating with other humans uh good advice you're a good you're a good person who clearly worries about what other people think and that's we look at that as a bad thing sometimes but actually that probably makes you quite a good person to have in other people's lives that you're constantly trying to be the best version of yourself um so go forth uh and you know if you do find a way of making that less of a problem of dealing with that email in because i'm struggling with it myself along with this hot chip which is now i think just getting towards my colon

15:37Romesh Ranganathan:on uh thank you so much for your email overthinking otter um i would say to you that are you are you putting it on no no i'm not i didn't expect it to be internally quite so if i'm honest with you like i thought like oh yeah i have a bit of a burning mouth for a bit and then you know in a day's time it'll fucking hurt i didn't expect it to seemingly go rush through my organs and destroy every one of them i i've never had a food that's made my kidneys hurt before every bit of me is wincing i can feel it the one thing i would say is if it's one of the few times i've experienced where i fit i think i can feel where it is in my body which is unnerving i would say and it just feels like bernie it's actually almost a good way of just seeing how your metabolism as well yeah yeah it's a good idea um overthinking otter uh it's totally first of all be kind to yourself about this thing with the messages it's a totally you know look it seems like it's impinging on your lifestyle because you're overthinking and worrying about these messages but don't be horrible to yourself about it it's totally understandable you know we all want to be it's a sign of your caring and you wanting to maintain relationships that you are struggling in this way i do have some practical advice i think you should sort of train yourself to be to think about your messages less and what i mean by that is uh i would make it a challenge when you wake up or whenever you want to do it you can do it right now of sending someone a text but being carefree about it and just clicking send and not try and not thinking about it and just have a go at doing that with one text message and then the next day you can try to do the couple and basically sort of desensitize yourself to being a bit more carefree about your text messaging i think that's the best way to do it sometimes if something causes you discomfort actually the best thing to do is to sit in the discomfort and accept it you know and actually get used to it that actually generally feels like advice what we're sitting going through that's true actually that's what i'm trying to do is you have to accept your body's on fire can i to say the all i'm thinking as you're talking is if i gave you my bank card could you take everyone out from the studio to the pub for a quick afternoon beer and then i can use a toilet in peace why don't you why don't you just go to a toilet down the road why do you have to evacuate the whole fucking office of the of the options why is that the one you go for and also you're sort of raising like the embarrassment factor of that just like it's just a nice thing you go yeah it was going to whiz down the pub yeah yeah don't come back to the office for two or three weeks

18:30dear wolf and owl i am the petty petty pigeon if someone mildly annoys me i store it away like evidence in a case file and revisit it years later i don't confront them i just quietly remember in 2018 a friend ate my chips without asking and i still think about it at least once a month genuinely feels like loads of things that i do my question is is this a personality flaw i should work on or is this actually just having an excellent memory it literally this feels like me writing in and all three circumstances okay tom what's your advice i mean i hold on to shit quite a lot doesn't sound like you're gonna today

19:14that's very good um i uh and also i don't really enjoy confrontation no so i i let things eat away at me slowly not that chip yeah very much like the chip eats away at me this actually this chip is almost like a symbol for my whole personality um i uh oh my god um i would say petty pigeon that we all just have to try and let things go.

19:44Romesh Ranganathan:You're going to... Fucking hell, it's like you're teeing them up. Come on, try and avoid hot chip shitting innuendo. Okay. What is the pettiest thing? So I've held on to loads of petty things, you know, like going to the pub with people who've never brought around, like even though you've been to my heart, it's racing. it's like i've run a marathon i feel my body working well should i take over yeah i think you're gonna have to yeah okay all right well it um it is a it's not a personality flaw it's a personality quirk and uh lots of people have this thing i know lots of people have this sense of righteousness and so when they feel that they've been wronged they cling on to it actually the truth is is if you do any reading about this it's slightly i don't want to offend you but it's and because i'm guilty of this and tom's guilty as well it's actually a sign of ego where you feel like you've got to defend your position and somebody's wronged you and you just hold on to it for a very long time unlike the way tom is holding on to himself here so what i would do is um i would genuinely think on a couple of these instances and try and recognize the feeling that you're having that you're having a feeling of of resentment and uh and annoyance about it and just recognize those as feelings and then let them go.

21:09I think that you have to try and practice chilling yourself out about it.

21:15Romesh Ranganathan:Carrying grievances about stuff that's been done to you in the past is like picking up a load of heavy rocks and then spending the rest of your life carrying them. It's well within your ability to just put them down, to let them go like a loose stool, you know? Those things, they're going to be burning, burning inside you. and working their way through your system. It's like a dragon burping. Zog. Anyway, I hope that helps. I don't think anything we've said today has helped. But my advice to you is... By the way, can I say we've done some fucking stupid things on this podcast. Having a hot chip and then deciding to give actual decent advice where both of us are potentially dying is fucking insane.

21:58But it's not good. Thank you so much for sending your emails in.

22:02Romesh Ranganathan:Wolfhubpod at gmail.com. Yeah. we might be back next week. We'll see how things go. We are about to get a building in Covent Garden evacuated. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. I actually think I've got mouth paralysis.