In-Laws, FOMO and Thierry Henry

0:14Hi guys, welcome to a special listener questions episode of the podcast. fucking hell should i go again yeah okay hey guys welcome oh hey guys hello welcome to a special listener questions episode of the podcast that you're listening to which is the wolf and al um so what is a listener's episode rom what does it mean tell the viewers stroke listeners

0:40Romesh Ranganathan:yeah it's just the email app okay okay uh this is our first email boom oh it's anonymous this is none of us. Okay. First off, I'm a big, thank you so much for the message, first of all, to the person. Oh, thank you for writing in. Yeah. First off, I'm a big fan of the pod and although I was late to the party, it's quickly become my favourite. I'm hoping you can give me some advice on an issue I'm having with my father-in-law. Difficult one, isn't it? Tricky. Well, we don't know what the problem is. Well, father-in-law's difficult, you know it's going to be difficult. Not always. Okay. Sometimes I can be delicious human beings.

1:14Romesh Ranganathan:My wife and I are both in our mid-40s. and 14 from a previous marriage. And my wife and I have a three-year-old son and we'll be adding another daughter in the spring. Congratulations. I'm not a typical male. I don't care about sports. But my father-in-law is a massive sports fan and raised five sons who all played hockey. Wow. That's going to be difficult, isn't it? Want to support your gut health? Take Activia's Gut Health Challenge by enjoying two Activia yogurts a day for two weeks and see if you feel a difference. With billions of probiotics and 20 years of scientific expertise, Activia is one of the easiest and tastiest ways to start your gut health ritual.

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3:04Romesh Ranganathan:Like going around there is going to be tricky, right? Well, if they're talking about hockey, it's a long day. Well, no, but what I'm saying is they're all sporty, sporty alphas. Yeah. And then you turn up as a bit of a kind of non-sport. By the way, can I just say, I don't necessarily, I think hockey's a really great sport. I think it's brilliant. But I don't think it's necessarily an alpha-alpha. Like if they were all rugby players, for example, then you're in for a long day. Okay, fine. But being sporty lends itself to alphaness, doesn't it? Yeah, if you're good at stuff. You're good at sports.

3:27Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, you can get alphas who aren't good at sports. Yeah, true. But if you're good at sports, you're more alpha-adjacent. You're more alpha-adjacent. Because you've always - You're better coordinated, you know, all that shit. But also you've always been sort of high social status-wise. Yeah, if somebody kicks a ball to you in the park, you don't shit yourself. No. There's a point I'm trying to make. Yeah. My son has quite long and slightly curly hair, which I love. On a recent visit, my father-in-law began commenting that it was too long and needed cutting because he's a boy.

3:56Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, God. He's since said this again while my son was on a video call. I'm not okay with negative comments about my children's appearance when they can hear it. I'm not okay with people's comments about my children's appearance regardless. Yeah. I'm personally offended as my own hair is long and I'm deeply uncomfortable with this casual sexism, especially with another daughter on the way. I don't know how to handle this, how to even broach the subject with my wife. Please look into your sweet, sweet souls and give me some advice. How do you draw boundaries? Ergsenio, you've gone. I mean, I think this is, I think the father-in-law has overstepped the mark massively here.

4:31I think number one, I would arguably say, like one of the greatest sportsmen, that we've had in this country has had some very cool hairstyles who are you talking about david beckham oh i think like i think hair that yeah having long hair is not a sign of like i think it's a cool thing right i think the fact is like individualism should be praised i think if that's always they want their son to have his hair i think the sun turns around says i want long hair then fair enough but i think the idea of someone criticizing and making aspersions just because which feels like that's what was happening here with the father-in-law um i also think like i'd probably make a joke of this and because i'm guessing i don't know the guy but he's not cool with this yeah the father-in-law and i go uh maybe i'll take tips on hockey probably won't be taking

5:19Romesh Ranganathan:style advice from you me old mate and make a joke about it no but you're the father and i'll show Okay, fine. Yeah. I was just saying to Catherine that... Why is she called Catherine? What do you mean? What's my wife's name? Well, it's quite a common name, isn't it? Okay. What do you want the name to be? What do you mean character? Alice. Right, fine. I was just saying to Alice that I think little Andrew's hair is possibly a bit long. It looks a bit messy, doesn't it? Oh, that's weird. I was just saying to Melanie that I will take your advice about sports, but maybe not in style considering the shoes you're wearing.

6:01Lol.

6:02Romesh Ranganathan:Why did we have to do a role play for you to just repeat what you said in the example? No, just how... We've gone to all that time. We've set it up now. You asked for a different wife's name. You just said exactly the same fucking thing. Yeah, but my point was just how to say it in a way of... Well, you said exactly the same. Don't say it in an aggressive way, but have a joke with it. I thought that sounded quite aggressive. Okay, let me do it again. Well, I might take some sports advice off you, Nick, but probably not some style advice. Lol. Why are you saying lol out loud? Just because it, yeah.

6:37You don't laugh out loud after your own joke. You don't have to do any of it. Those aren't the only options. What I'd say is you need to be very careful, because there's an alpha house he's going into, right? you don't want to antagonize but also you have to stand your ground because essentially what's happening here and i don't know a lot about this family i only know what's being written here genuinely you don't know a lot about this no but it's a very alpha like house and you kind of have to meet that with it with what it needs for them you know i've been in situations with alphas and straight away you actually have got an alpha no i don't you've got an alpha way about you i'm I'm the beta-est of betas.

7:17You're not that beta. Who do you need to pull beta out, me and you? Me. Really? Yeah. I don't know about that. Okay, anyway, go on. But what I say, for example, when I used to be on building sites, there was like real alphaness there. Like you have to sometimes give it a little bit just so you're not feeling like you're getting palmed off. And I think if they're making jokes about his hair and his son's hair, I think he's kind of got to stand his ground a little bit. and I think when he talks, I actually think like, I think in a sense he needs to, if that's upsetting, I think he should be saying that to his father-in-law rather than going to his wife and saying, I'm not happy with this because that puts her in a situation and I don't think you have to be aggressive.

7:57I think you can say, look, hey man, that's, that's what, you know, my son, son likes his hair like that rather than, because also that, that happens a lot in, with in-laws in a sense and people, what people tend to do is they'll make a conversation about something without actually directly saying it like you know instead of like whatever his feelings are he'll just make this sort of roundabout way like a bit like what i'm doing now um and i think you have to kind of stand your ground i mean i i i'm quite without getting any more of the details i just think this is none of the father-in-law's fucking business yeah but you have to you have but my point is in this situation if you if he doesn't say something and stand his ground like and say what he feels in this situation i feel that that's just gonna is what this will become another thing and another thing because actually the way that this is written then how you know you could that's all we've got to judge this seems like a really decent human being he seems like a nice man yeah who has but also has a moral compass and he has his own beliefs in how he goes forward as a human being and he's quite stuck to you know he believes in those and i think actually with your father and i think it's a far better thing to come across and go no that's not how i think it should be rather than, you know, trying to, yeah, I think you sometimes got to be firm.

9:12Romesh Ranganathan:I agree. I totally agree. I think it's great advice. I think it's great advice. I sort of think like we had a, not a similar situation. We had a bit of a situation years ago with my mum. Right. Where we said to our Theo. Yeah. Our eldest, when he was a little kid, he'd got like, we used to do star charts. Do you do those? Rewards charts? Yeah. Good. Yeah. Anyway, eventually he got loads of stars. Wow. And we said he liked dressing up. He said he can choose a costume from the Disney store that was near us at the time. We thought he might choose, you know, will he choose Captain America? Yeah. Will he choose Iron Man?

9:53Romesh Ranganathan:He chose Minnie Mouse, right? By the way, style icon. Style, absolute style icon. I said to Lisa, well, I was just like, yeah, if he wants Minnie Mouse, get a Minnie Mouse. Anyway, it triggered my mum. She became slightly panicked. Really? Yeah, because she was just like, she was just like, why is he wearing mini-mimic? I don't know. And so then I had to say to mum, first of all, it just doesn't matter. So I had to have a chat with her about, because she sort of started to express a bit of concern in front of him. Yeah. And then I'm just like, I don't want this to start. I don't want him to think that this is a thing.

10:30Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? So I just kind of had to, I had to sort of, I wasn't firm with mum, but I just sort of said, mum, I had a serious conversation with her do you know what I mean yeah but I think as well with that situation as well like you know I think what's beautiful about kids at that age is they that it's just they like that thing there's no judgment and they're not thinking about a wider picture and I think for as long as in this world you can you can have that air about you where you look at things you know with a bit of wonder or you just you're completely being yourself and you're not falling into a norm and this is just how I feel and this is what I'm going to do that's kind of a beautiful thing.

11:03Romesh Ranganathan:I think, Anonymous, you're well within your rights to say to your father-in-law, I think you can be firm about it. Yeah. And I think you can say, I don't appreciate it. First of all, it's up to us how we have our, it's up to him actually, how he has his hair. Secondly, I don't think it's appropriate for you to make comments like that. And leave it at that. It doesn't have to start a war, but what I think is if you try and joke your way out of it or be light about it, it might it might continue to be a thing i think actually there is some value in in being quite straight straight down the line about it you know yeah and you also have to wonder like do all five of his boys want to play hockey i want to just he was here did they did they want to be they just compromised long-haired yeah musicians or something yeah play the guitar yeah that was their dream or the harmonica or the heart you sometimes realize go back to the last episode saxophone when you Probably start on the clarinet.

11:57When I was summing up about Martin the dog, there's a lot there actually to unpack. In what way? About looking for things and thinking.

12:04Romesh Ranganathan:Please don't do a callback to that. Right? It was difficult enough to sort of comment on it in the moment, let alone referencing it in another episode. Right, thank you so much, Anonymous. Good luck with it. Dear Wolf and Owl, I just thought I'd drop a note to say how moved I was to see The Owl reunited with Dylan on a TV a while ago. Well, that's quite a... Oh, okay. This is the talk about the McIntyre thing. Okay, that's beautiful. I don't usually watch Michael McIntyre's show, but happen to catch it. And so far, I've re-watched this bit about a dozen times. Romesh, your reaction is beautiful, and you're obviously genuinely choked up to see him.

12:46So much, it made me cry. Wow. Would love to know a bit about what happened afterwards, if you're happy to share. Love the weeping wildebeest. Dave. uh that's yeah beautiful uh did you watch it tom i've seen a clip of it yeah it's a kid that you went to school with right yeah so this is the remember me this is the room of me because also

13:05Romesh Ranganathan:there's your first kiss was on there as well not my first who said it's my first kiss i just assumed that's what it was why did you assume it was my first kiss i just assumed that the way that it was that that was no it wasn't my first it wasn't my first kiss oh okay second second kiss no it was anyway so we did this thing called remember me where they bring out you go onto the show they bring out people from the past and you have to say if you remember so it was a girl your second kiss yeah uh there's a sound man sound man who just did a little prank yeah yeah and then this dylan by the way can i just say and this is i know you're fucking taking a bit but what that was a really bad prank to put on you on the sense that of all the people i've worked with you're one of the most genuine people to anyone that they come across you no you do you it was bad wasn't it no but maybe like a real piece of shit no but that isn't you michael can i can i say there's a lot of people no i mean no i'm joking there's a lot of people they could have played that one yeah with um but i think you uh cordon i'm not gonna go through nothing so i'm not as brave as you are i'm a weak coward who just genuinely just yeah so so this person comes on and it's a really beautiful moment yes and it's like at first i didn't reckon i did i i remember dylan His name is Dylan.

14:20Cool name, by the way. His name still is Dylan. Yeah, 80s, 90s. That's a cool name. I was shocked. I didn't know there was any Dylans living in the UK at that point. At what point? In the 80s and 90s? Yeah. Yeah, well, it was. Dylan was like just an American name. I was about to give his full name there.

14:33Romesh Ranganathan:Anyway, I remember hanging out with Dylan, but I didn't equate the person that I was seeing in front of me with Dylan. Yeah. Because, you know, it was obviously, what, 35 years ago? 40 years later. Yeah. So I just didn't clock it. And then suddenly it came to me. so I had this moment of like it was cool man it's like the kid that I used to hang out with all the time do you know what I mean we used to like you know get a little bamboo stick and go fishing in the river and then we'd like what's where we'd kick cans around and sometimes we'd play like the ukulele together it's nice if your child is essentially Huckleberry Finn we had a dog on a string and sometimes we'd get on the old riverboat and head on down and annoy some of the local villages River, wider than a mile.

15:18I'm crossing you in stone. No, no, I'm joking. It was nice, though. It was really nice. So hold up. So what I think all of us are interested in is what happened after the show.

15:25Romesh Ranganathan:So he came up to me afterwards. So I went over and said hello to them afterwards. Beautiful moment. And he said, not the Sandman. Yeah, obviously not the Sandman. Imagine he was busy in himself and also felt very sort of like vulnerable after having been used as a bit of a prank. That's how these things work. Neil, can you do a prank on Romesh? I don't really want to be on camera. Come on, mate. Yeah. Be frowned upon if you don't do it. Anyway, he said to me, I had to chat with him and said thanks a lot. Did you chat to both of them? The goy? Yeah. Yeah. And he said. Just showing how I've got a lot better at kissing.

16:03Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. But let's talk about. I was about to do a joke there. And then I just regretted it. It was such an obvious thing to say. I was going to go enough about Dylan. anyway yeah I had a chat with Sonia yeah had a chat with Dylan Sonia by the way massive 80s and 90s Sonia's sort of become extinct huge huge and then Dylan said to me that was cool wasn't it I said yeah it was really cool and he said well let me know if you want to keep in touch and I just went fuck off mate no I can reveal exclusively on the wall for now Dylan and I going out for lunch wow we're going to have a little like reconvene that's not like just really did you get to know much about what Dylan's been up to because obviously he knows not really no i mean i've got we've had a did you talk about um dylan in your books no wow okay what do you mean what's that mean what's that reaction well you play with them all the time when you're kids yeah but i mean like you sort of tell interesting stories in your book don't you i hope this isn't i hope you have lunch before this episode but i'm not dylan i don't think he's going to take this in a bad way but me and dylan going down the park to play football who gives a fuck about yeah that's kind of i mean no that's i mean that's part of the problem with these books that's why so many of them are so fucking boring

17:16i've got like 62 pages about me going to the park playing with various people yeah exactly what a load of shit um so now get to the good bits people writing books about their lives um yeah but you've written like five autobiographies now no two yeah and dylan didn't make the poor dylan you what'd be nice actually you this is what you should do is you should do a book from like the moment you didn't, you stopped seeing each other all the time from where Dylan's life went and then where your life went and then the reconvene. And then it's like this beautiful book about yours and Dylan's sort of relationship.

17:48Could be turned into a stage play. That sounds,

17:51Romesh Ranganathan:what we call in the business, unsellable. Okay. Ready for another email? Yeah. Hello, Will. By the way, if Dylan wants to, he can come on here, we could have quite a laugh with Dylan when he came on here. that is a sort of special thing that we get Dylan on we've never had a guest on we should talk about this are we ever going to have a guest on I'd love to have guests on but I want different guests what sort of guests would you have I think if I'd love Thierry Henry just for the fact it'd be quite fun to have what would Thierry okay so imagine Thierry Henry when he comes on the podcast what do we do with him we have a laugh with him like what how current affairs ask him some questions what do you mean current affairs what do you know about current affairs nothing really okay so what would we actually do with him that's the problem it's like it's all very well I know you and Thierry are mates oh we're not really mates well you text each other right again going back to the last episode when's the last time you had a text interaction with Thierry and Ray about a year ago probably oh no I'll tell you when he won the he got to the final at the Olympics with the French team okay we had a bit of a chat then yeah what did you say just congratulations my friend well done he replied yeah by the way can I say he has instigated a chat with me yeah you did tell me that so you're actually mates with Thierry and Ray I'm a mate mate yeah we get on but you've got his phone number yeah I mean that's pretty amazing yeah isn't it yeah it's a pretty cool thing yeah he's a nice guy I like him he's very genuine he'd be great on air yeah but why how I don't know we could get Dylan on then we get him on the next so it's like we both bring a friend to work type thing oh you really are okay here's our next email hello Wolf Alcaton Swan I hope you're all well my name's peaceful pelican i just want to start by thanking you for your pod i use it as a coping technique for my anxiety which has been getting out of hand i work in health care and i need to read this with a different tone what the fuck yeah you've come really cheesy there sorry peaceful pelican terry wogan my name's i can't i can't not do it my name is peaceful pelican okay fine my name i just wanted to start by thanking you okay i just want to start by thanking you for your pod i can't read now what's happened to me i use it as a i use it as a coping technique for my anxiety which has been getting out of hand is that right yeah i work in health care and struggle i work in health care and struggle i work in health care and struggle with shift work and general life stresses i know you guys speak openly about mental health and it really helps me realize i'm not alone i've recently turned 27 and feeling very lost i've got a lovely boyfriend half my friends have kids and are moving on with their lives and others still like to go out and party apart from the gym i have no hobbies if you feel a certain way when you're around this age please don't ever change tom's laugh and rom's dry humor is contagiously funny huge fan well done for having a great laugh yeah so um what i do actually find myself do you know you are generally one of the people who makes me laugh so i don't realize how much i laugh at you until i ever listen back to this podcast why are you listening back to the podcast no whenever we have to listen to back I never do that I always pretend I have but I Catherine always says you laugh so much you're like a giddy school sort of kid around Romesh I don't I think you might be around me but not at me I think most of what makes you laugh is stuff that you've said no it's not it's your reactions that now it's an official thing if I'm doing something one of my favourite things in life is I'm doing something and you do your stony face thing but I know that you think but this you think I'm doing a thing that's just my face it's so sweet and funny.

21:21It's one of the things that makes me happy. Genuinely, sometimes, while I'm in bed and if I'm feeling a bit sad and depressed, I'll think of one of the conversations we've had in our friendship and it'll make me chuckle.

21:30Romesh Ranganathan:Oh my god, that's one of the sweetest and saddest things you've ever said. I do. I get so much elevation from this relationship, this brotherhood. What's your advice? So number one, I think the misconception, can I just say, firstly, at 27, I was partying all the time and I was going to pubs all the time and I was very, very lonely. Just a bit. uh no but do a lot of partying just a little um just just on the i think the idea that if you're going out and you're drinking and you're being around people at a time that you're not lonely or that's i i look back at that time and still you know a lot of friends i remember quite a few people having christenings and weddings uh that i wasn't invited to because i'd be a bit of a liability if i did turn up um so i felt very much like i think in a similar sort of and i didn't actually have any out any outside interests other than drinking and and just being out and that was my only thing so i think wherever you're at at that age i think 27 late 20s getting into your 30s it's kind of a weird place because you are always no matter where you're at there's always going to be seemingly people around you who've got their shit together more than you have and that's whether people you know i'd have been looking at someone who's going to the gym all the time at that point and that being their direction got with envy thinking oh fuck they they've got that you know their shit together they're going out they're doing that we play into this sort of stereotype even more now with the way the modern world with social media and stuff is you actually you feel like you should be doing stuff that people not just people around you because that circle can be quite small but actually the larger world you're looking at and going oh maybe i should be doing this maybe i should be doing that maybe my shit isn't together i think you truly to actually feel number one not lonely and not a fit with like feeling that you're missing out you actually need to go like what are the things i need to fulfill myself without looking around at other people what are the things that bring me joy and the gym brings you joy and you enjoy working out there's that's that's a great thing and look at other things you can do just day to day just to think they're the small things that you're in a loving relationship that's a great thing you're in a happy place and i think it's then just looking at other little things that you you can add to what you've got there's already a stable place and a stable sort of life from which you've built for yourself rather than just looking and i'm comparable with this i think most people are i constantly are looking at other people thinking i should do this better shit and for me now i'm like no actually let me look at what i'm doing and realize that you're the main player in your life only you can change that and and everyone else is just concentrating on their shit let them do that and you just stick to what you're doing and and build on what you've already got because it's a pretty solid foundation romsky that is i don't know if i can do anything with that it's great advice sometimes really really good man well thank you very much yes this is the way you read the email really oh fuck off and also i feel an empathy with this person yeah just do you um just do you i was gonna get a tattoo i'm gonna get a tattoo i'm gonna get that just do you just do you yeah why don't you just get jdy you'll be then people will say what i don't know um thank you so much for your email and thank you so much for listening to the podcast very sweet very sweet about the podcast I sort of could only reiterate what Tom said you said you've not got any hobbies but you go to the gym but going to the gym is a good thing getting out and about I do agree with Tom in terms of there is this perception of what we're supposed to be doing at whatever age do you know what I mean either settling down or going out and partying and all of that the truth is you've just got to do what you want to do if you're feeling lonely um and there you know in your 20s if you are looking to sort of get more hobbies and and look for opportunities to make friends you can be more proactive about it and sort of look at things that you might be interested in and maybe turn up to like even a class or something like that right do you know what I mean and sort of there's often um with like groups and stuff that meet up to do whatever like even like whether it's I don't know a run club or uh a painting group or whatever that will have like a social ecosystem around it and so you can very quickly find yourself like you know making friends in that way but I you know part of the problem that you've got or part of the problem that you're facing is that you are suffering from life FOMO and that is that you're looking at what everybody else is doing and you're thinking they must be having a really amazing time or they're doing it better and I'm not doing it right there is no doing it right or doing it wrong there is no your space to be doing it you like tom said as the tattoo will confirm just do you so whatever your choices are that is absolutely fine and and you need to try and find a way to stop beating yourself up for not doing what you perceive everybody else to be doing there's nothing wrong in that you know and so you know the truth is when you get to your 40s like tom and myself one of the greatest gifts that being in your 40s gives you is that you stop doing what you think people perceive that you should be doing.

26:30Romesh Ranganathan:You just do what you want to do. You become a bit more comfortable in your own skin. Tom and I never get anxious about what people think of us. We never worry about what people are saying of us. We just had a whole dip lunch where I'm down completely too. You could sole me in a restaurant. You know, we have blips. We have blips. No, I'm joking. But in all seriousness, like, I think, you know. I think as well, you've got a gauge on it now. Yeah, you've got to do what you want to do, man, and not worry about it. Absolve yourself of the worry of this perception of what you're supposed to be doing.

27:02Romesh Ranganathan:That would be my biggest bit of advice to you. Okay, that's it. That's all for this email episode. Really good emails. Thank you so much for all of your messages. And Wolf, actually, I'll let Tom give the email address. Hi, guys. So it is wolfowlpod at gmail.com. Send you emails, queries, funny photos. This is a visual format now so we can really get delved in. no no no no no no no no i don't want to get into a thing where we're just going oh and uh thanks to lucy who sent us this picture of a cat that's got us up into a bit of a pickle i don't want to come no no but if it's like oh it was like my mate neil's birthday and i made him a wolf and our cake that yeah something like okay that would be fine but not like or funny videos of you doing a rom impression or like doing me doing a city walk anything you've got oh am i making you laugh again oh no that's right you've just set yourself off into a little giggle fest giggle fest fucking kill me thank you so much for listening to the world see you next time