S4 Ep 42: AITA Bonus Show

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0:10Romesh Ranganathan:And a good source of fiber in every bowl. Helping you turn that rhythm into your soundtrack for a great day. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26.

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1:53Romesh Ranganathan:They stay dressed to kill, never sheep's clothing. Dark enough to turn the sun to the moon, you'll see nothing. All you hear is a huff-a-puff and a... Expect killings, red spilling and flesh ripping. Impressive in it, the death bringing its head spinning. Just kidding, every word in this song's about two grown men dressed up as a bird and a dog. Welcome to the Wolf and Owl. And as you know, the Wolf and Owl are on tour. Just refer to myself in the third person. It's the beginning and the end. And this episode is a little bit different. and it's a little bit of a bonus set where we're just going through Am I the Assholes and talking about our live tour.

2:29Romesh Ranganathan:So I hope you enjoy. It's a little bit more serious than some of the other reps because we wanted to give people proper advice. But I hope you enjoy regardless, and then we'll be back to our normal episodes on the next one. I hope that's okay. Don't tell me if it isn't. All right, bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

2:49Welcome to the Wolf and Owl. This is a podcast of your dreams.

2:54Romesh Ranganathan:Welcome to the world for now. We're doing a podcast for you. And look, thank you so much for tuning in. Dear God. But what I would say to you is Tom and I, for the first time in the history of the podcast, I would say, are flirting with having seen enough of each other, I think. I mean, I could never see enough of you. but but you i feast and adore my eyes on you all the time but i'd say do you know what's insane is so we've done about 12 hours of improvised chat over the last two three weeks uh completely never changed a show we've kept every show unique and different now i am starting to think i can see why other shows have a script and follow it yeah i mean we've over the lot we've been doing live shows and shout out to all of the people that have come to the live shows it's been amazing beautiful people at the weekend we did um Glasgow and Newcastle both crowds unbelievable thank you so much for everybody that's come but um we didn't want to let the side down and not do an actual episode of the Wolfgang because most people that listen to this have not are not coming to the live shows yeah uh anyway Tom how have you been uh in the 12 or so hours that I haven't seen you?

4:13You know what? Lucky enough for me, I did a gig last night and during the gig, I managed to give myself whiplash, which is awfully painful, Ramesh, but it was like, oh, I've actually got something to talk about on the podcast now. How did you give yourself whiplash at the gig? Yeah, doing a... I was doing the shadow tennis routine in a very confined space, but really threw myself into it because it was really... What's desperate? I don't know if you find this as a stand-up is when you've got a bit that... I do find, as a stand-up, I do find you desperate, yes. Yeah. I think you're, yeah. I mean, that is my style, desperate Tom Davis.

4:53DTD!

4:56I was really trying to sell it. It was too small to space to sell the routine. And I really went for it and over, overly did my neck and sort of really just threw myself into it, literally. And something was gone in my neck now. which alongside my back and my knee is fucking age as shit.

5:15Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I mean, I'm going to... So I did a couple of gigs last night, just trying out new stuff. And I did an act out of something. Right. And in the very short period of activity that I did this act out, I managed to render myself so exhausted that I couldn't continue with the gig for a moment or two. Wow. Well, I just had to gather myself again. What were you acting out? Sex? No, it wasn't sex. it was like me walking around the car park oh wow it's really yeah it's really geez tragic we've both dropped off the training quite a lot haven't we yeah and actually um you know sometimes i've done it's happened to me in the past where i've got a naked light from doing a thing or like said i've got to catch my breath a second and a lot of the time is laughter because the people think you know it's funny that he's knocking himself out last night i would say i would describe it as sympathy, sort of sadness.

6:10Romesh Ranganathan:I would say it was flirting with concern. And look, I think stand-up is all about generating all sorts of emotions. Concern shouldn't be one of them, I think. Yeah, I'd say concern. Pity's quite a nice one to have at times. Yeah, listen, I've had pity. I've had pity. You know when you're trying out a self-deprecating bit and you think you're just being honest about what you think about yourself and then the audience just feel really sad for you because you'd say something like that out loud about yourself you know stuff like that that happens do you ever use stand up as therapy do you think um in my opinion what you're supposed to do is you're supposed to if you're using stand up as therapy you need to let the audience be reassured that you're beyond what it is you're talking about i think to sort of openly discuss something that you're currently going through yeah haven't found a way through yet that that is a dangerous game that you're playing there that is yeah I've come to know this recently this is something through stuff I've been trying and if they think you're in the midst of it they feel like almost sick for you and it feels very much not like a night out for them if it was like watching a man have a breakdown but in all seriousness the gigs were fun it was good fun I did it in mine a very nice gig actually but it was a very very a restaurant in Notting Hill upstairs of a restaurant in Notting Hill where people stood you know how people stand uh you know people stand that's obviously sort of something that people do it's a very natural thing um is this kind of observational stuff you're going to be doing on spud gun uh no no no unless there are people standing on spud gun maybe i'll just get flow to get a little standing area and i can make my standing stuff really fucking land yeah it felt like very 90s seller vibe it was very nice candles out it was quite cool i think you like it as a gig yeah what was it like Was it like a corporate thing?

7:57No, no, no, no. No, I'm trying out some new... Pathetically, I'm just saying trying out new material, but anyone who's seen my show knows that Shadow Tennis is a very old piece of material that I shouldn't be relying on for jokes.

8:09Romesh Ranganathan:This is... You find us, Animal Pack, in a very fragile state of mind here. I find, like, I'm really, at the moment, I've really slipped back into eating junk food. Like, the food I'm eating at the moment is... Like, I have no... Like, if I had a full, like, fucking three-course meal and then left that restaurant and walked down the street and someone said, oh, there's a bucket of fucking chicken here. Do you want to eat it? I'd go, yeah, I'd love that. I'm eating, like, five, six meals a day. It's insane. I don't know if you think that you're in a unique position, but if you recall, we were driving from Glasgow to Newcastle.

8:48Romesh Ranganathan:I put out a message on Instagram, does anybody know any good vegan donut places? And by the time we arrived at the hotel, there were two boxes from Glazed in Newcastle of donuts that I'd actually ordered and paid for donuts. Not I've turned up to the hotel and thought, oh, I quite fancy something sweet. Let me pop out and have a... I didn't even walk for it. I got in touch with them and said, please, I beg, can I put in an order for some donuts? I will give you this. They were delicious donuts. They were delicious, but then I'm just walking around with like... just walking around the hotel with boxes of donuts, turn up at the venue, can barely get my bags in because I've got so many fucking donuts.

9:29Romesh Ranganathan:Like, I mean, really, like, I mean, that is, that's somebody who's arguably got, I would say that's evidence for an intervention. Yeah, but then, do you know what the worst thing is? I'm an enabler. You brought those donuts. And I had a taste of a donut, a taste of a cookie, and I'm like, that was my fucking feeling. If we'd been there for another two days, I'd have pushed you to get more don't like feel my habit by feeling your habit yeah there was a cookie they did chocolate chip and sea salt oh my god so good I know that obviously Newcastle I blame that because Newcastle the gig in Newcastle got quite sexual there was a lot of sexual tension between us a lot of people have picked up on well it's funny you say that because I was going to get straight into some am I the arsehole I don't know if you remember like uh uh we we talked about am i there so i gave you a couple of ones online then we asked the animal pack to send some in and we have got some if you'd like to have a little yeah i love them yeah am i the asshole am i the asshole am i the asshole okay so this is from mb and it's very funny you said what you just said tom says firstly big fan of the pod me and my husband are currently the way home from the newcastle live show which is wicked albeit a bit sexual but blue loved it i could do some advice regarding my relationship with my younger sister to cut a long story short we've never been close though over the years i've tried my best to have the kind of relationship i imagine we should have so much so i even had her as a maid of honor at her request in my wedding last year already already there's a bit of a red flag there isn't there bear in mind she's getting married next year not only am I not a bridesmaid I haven't even formally been invited what myself and my husband went through a bit of a tough time last year with him being unemployed and we never had a peep from my sister to check in and ask if we were okay my family invited themselves to myself and my husband's house for Easter lunch so I naturally assumed my sister and their fiancee would be joining them turns out she expected us to roll out the red carpet and send her a formal invite although no one else in the family was actually invited we're an Irish family so this pretty normal eyes make sure my door is always open to all of them after a phone call she ended up calling me a stupid bitch over this easter debacle i stopped talking to her i wasn't aware there was an issue in the first place and to find out by being called names is the final nail in the coffin for me she's always been difficult judgmental and disrespectful while i'm pretty easy going and let things go but this was it for me the only correspondence i've had from her since is a message asking me to pay 800 pounds for a hotel room for upcoming wedding i thought would have had some semblance of an apology but it's never happened all this to say am i the asshole for choosing to protect my peace, set boundaries and not interact with somebody is most definitely an asshole.

12:13Romesh Ranganathan:Am I... I need to stop saying asshole, don't I? It's just that's the way it's spelled in the email. It's just difficult. It's an American thing. And then we're saying, am I the asshole? Asshole? Asshole. Asshole. Let me try that. Asshole. All this to say, am I the asshole for choosing to protect my peace, set boundaries and not interact with somebody is most definitely an asshole? Am I owed an apology? it's been a lot of years dealing with her attitude towards me and my husband. I'm being made to feel stubborn by my mum for refusing to interact. But just because someone is your blood doesn't mean you have to accept they're a prick, right?

12:44Romesh Ranganathan:Any advice you could give would be massively appreciated. Big love, you sweet, sweet souls. Tommy Davis, what do you think about this? Well, firstly, thank you very much for your kind words and also picking up on the sexual tension between me and Romesh. It was unpalatable at times and quite delicious. And all fed by cookies and donuts. I mean, you said two things that are contradictory, though. I mean, you mispronounced unpalatable. And then you said it's delicious. So very difficult to unpick that. But look, my question to you is, am I the asshole for pointing that out? Mate, I think we've both got a bit of asshole in it.

13:22And I think for a good friendship like ours, if you've got one dominant asshole, that person is horrible. And actually, like this situation we're talking about here, I think what we've got here is a sweet, sweet soul. really good segue and uh we have got someone who i think has been enabled in their assholeness to become almost an epic asshole i think i think what you find a lot is in situations like it's number one like i don't know your sister or like when you go into therapy you realize so many things are come from childhood and so many things that we're all working out come from childhood so There's probably something in your sister's past that's giving her some sort of envy or some sort of grudge that she's holding on to you for whatever reason.

14:09As a younger sibling, sometimes that can happen. I think the truth of the matter is, though, that she's been allowed to let this behaviour sort of pass, and she's been able to just keep on doing these things. and by the sounds of things, listening to your point of view, there's a lot of things that you say that I'm guilty of doing myself. I'm guilty of letting people make me feel the way you're feeling right now. Even looking back at my wedding or other things, I'm naturally a people pleaser and I'm always trying to sort of keep the peace with people. And I think sometimes actually in itself, I actually think, well, actually, that can sometimes make me a bit of an arsehole in the basis, actually, I should set boundaries because sometimes me trying to be a really, really good person, a nice person, backfires in the sense that I tire myself out and then I end up letting people down.

15:00But in that sense of what you're doing, I think you're just letting this thing become more and more toxic. I think if she's used offensive language, I think she's not giving you an official wedding invite, but yet is asking you to pay for a hotel. I think things like, as Rom says, a massive red flag and someone insisting that they become your, they're going to be your maid of honour. That's something you choose. And that's down to the people that you want to share that day with you and the most special people that you can think of having around you. That shouldn't be something that's enforced by someone that you don't believe should do that thing.

15:35So I genuinely don't think you've got any asshole in you. I think you're a very decent, good person. I think when it comes to, like, this is for your sister to work out. I think you get into a place where someone if someone's very dominant and they're very aggressive in their nature that can quite a lot of the time take over and I think people come like any bully people become quite scared of that person and they don't want to upset that person they don't want to they don't want to end up in the crosshairs themselves so they let behavior go and they allow it and I think actually you standing up and sticking up for yourself in a situation like this could actually probably cause more uproar so I think find a place where you're doing the things you want to be most comfortable with, like whether that is going to the wedding, whatever it is, and let the relationship with your sister be like, okay, we've never been that close.

16:22She is my sister, but I want to keep her a bit of an arm's length or I'm going to have a little break or whatever. But I think the main thing I'd say is protect your own mental health and protect your own self with it. But I wouldn't put my head above the parapet in a situation like this. Also, in a slight thing to your sister's defence, weddings are very stressful. people are never their best version of themselves on the lead up to a wedding and uh i suppose that's worth remembering but um yeah i'd uh yeah that's my advice that's my tuppence worth

16:54Romesh Ranganathan:to you my brother um uh in answer to your question um no you're not the asshole asshole you're not the act you're not the asshole you're not the asshole but i'm gonna posit uh a controversy there that I don't think your sister's an asshole either uh what's clear from your email is that you've got yourself into a really negative space with your sister and what you're describing is quite a familiar dynamic in terms of like when you have siblings often the one that is the more uh expressive and the one that gets the the more kind of wears their heart on their sleeve is often the one that's pandered to a little bit more and the person that's sort of quiet and a little less demanding, they can sometimes fall into the dynamic of being not ignored, but sort of walked over a little bit more.

17:41Romesh Ranganathan:And I suspect from the wording of your email that this is what's going on. I mean, look, the truth is, you said because someone is your bloke doesn't mean you have to accept they're a prick. That is true. What I would say to you is it's a shame to not have a relationship with your sister. But I think that you need to set up the boundaries for what that relationship would be the the easter lunch just sounds like a bit of a nightmare to be honest with you and it but if you look at it from her point of view maybe she there's something that happened the way she thought she'd liked she wanted to be invited rather than assume that she's going to be coming and it sounds like she feels like she needs a bit of love from you or in her head i'm not saying that you haven't delivered it but that's that's the sort of thing that somebody that feels like you know i i don't actually feel wanted by her i need an invite that's what it feels like it looks like whether that's justified or not is up to you to to decide but the long the short of it is you're not the asshole and i don't think you need to have a close relationship with your sister because there's no point either of you putting yourself through something if you're not really getting on but it would be good for the sake of your mum to have an ongoing relationship with that with boundaries set in place and you know i've said this a lot and I've said this during the live shows, but a lot of misery in life is caused by expecting things of people that they're never going to deliver.

19:03Romesh Ranganathan:And so if you're expecting your sister to be the ideal sister that does everything you want exactly how you want, then there's an argument that the fault is with you for expecting that. And same for her. So I think, you know, work out what your boundaries of your relationship are going to be. It would be a shame to cut her off completely, but I think you just sort of, if this is not going to progress through conversation and stuff, then you need to sort of accept what that relationship's going to look like but good luck to you you're not the asshole though beautiful email brother beautiful and lovely advice Romesh delicious advice you've got a lovely way about it brother

19:44good energy in good energy out

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20:56Romesh Ranganathan:am i the asshole am i the asshole am i the asshole okay uh this one is from the swedish moose wow uh and they've gone for the they've gone for the well they've actually said the title of the email is am i the asshole slash asshole okay greetings wolf owl swat cat the signets and kitten. Swedish moose. Oh my god, that's so cute. Have you looked it up? Beautiful Swedish moose. That's a beautiful beast. I wouldn't describe it as cute.

21:32Romesh Ranganathan:Okay. Am I the asshole? My daughter's graduating uni next year from King's College. I decided to book an afternoon tea at the Savoy to celebrate her. She's determined, hardworking, deserves this more than anything. She's a queen. Now, there will be me, her three sisters and my parents going to a graduation and a little celebration. Now her father has decided he must be a part of this day. A bit of backstory, he's floated in and out of the last 12 years. We've been divorced, never paid maintenance, never turned up for any of the children's events. I encouraged their relationships, even though I absolutely despised him, made the calls for him to see them, paid his train fare, gave him money, and when they want to spend a week with him every summer, provided a week's worth of food shopping and pocket money for them all.

22:11Romesh Ranganathan:He expected this because I work full-time and he was and still is unemployed fast forward to now our youngest is 14 has refused refused to speak to him for the last three years after he cancelled on seeing her seven times and forgot her birthday and he wants me to pay for his training meal so he can attend her graduation am I the arse of for saying no the fact that you could pay for him to be there on doctor's graduation and she has both her parents there to watch and celebrate or am I being selfish to think fuck you you've done nothing to contribute support mentally and financially I want to enjoy this moment basking in glory just us need some advice from a couple of sweet sweet souls love the swedish moose hmm yo swedish moose um i find it's a very it's a tricky situation but and i have to as always say that we're not trained in any of this stuff but this kind of man makes me so fucking embarrassed to be to be a man um if i'm honest it's so fucking depressing and so sad because it's not just a solitary tale this is something I you speak to people a lot and and I feel like certainly recently I speak to so many people who where this kind of thing happens and men don't seem to sort of seek to be involved in their children's lives until there's these there's moments like this I will say that it's always worth trying to look at the where you are you know where your ex is and whether where his mental health is and where his he is as a person but i think for me anyway i think when it comes to a situation like this it feels like you and your three daughters and your parents have been for a lot and i think actually as a combined family unit i think him being there almost you know saying what you say about your youngest daughter i don't know what his relationship is with with your with your daughter who's just graduated but I'd actually be the arsehole here.

24:01I'd actually say, I think sometimes we talk about it very negatively, but I think make this about yourself, make this about the positivity of you as a strong woman who's brought up three strong girls, working full-time, and being like a really strong role model for them. And he hasn't been that, and he's come up wanting, and he's been quite lacking as a father by all accounts. I think that's sad on a lot of different reasons, because I think there's nothing more rewarding than being a parent. I mean, I constantly, like, you know, it's a part of me, I mean, Romesh talks about this a lot, but, you know, I constantly question, am I around enough?

24:39Am I present enough? Am I being there enough? Because it is something that worries me, and I do think it's really, really important for your daughter to have a strong female and male role model in the house, because I think they're such important things. I think we talk about sons having, like, strong role models. I try to be the best dad in life. And like anyone, I think I fall short at times and I question myself with this, but I think you sound like you've done a lot of this stuff on your own. And I think for moments like this, where it's about a really, really happy occasion and the fact that he's not got himself together up to now, if I'm honest with you at times, situations like that feel like, again, it's a situation...

25:25Romesh Ranganathan:This is not Lisa that's emailed in, just so you know.

25:31Romesh Ranganathan:suddenly I felt like it's Tom talking to me here this feels weird no I think people are allowed that behaviour I think like anything like that and I think so actually use your arsehole call for yourself make this about you your parents your daughters and the strong family unit in which you've created in what it sounds like in quite difficult circumstance have an amazing day enjoy your afternoon tea send in much love to you all and congratulations to your daughter. Have a wonderful one. Swedish moose. Just to start off, I don't think Swedish moose is as cute as Tom does, but they do look like fine animals.

26:08Romesh Ranganathan:The answer to your question is you're not the arsehole for saying no. Obviously, it doesn't sound like he's been great, but as Tom says, we don't know what his situation is 100%, but it sounds like you seem like quite a reasonable person. So if it's got your back up and you've sort of had enough, then that's enough for me to think that it's been difficult. And it sounds really hard. And first of all, can I just say well done to you for managing to deal with it in the way that you clearly have done. I think that there is, you know, with things like this, my inclination is always, if I come up, not that I've come up against this situation, when you can't get such a threat like this, to try and be as decent as you possibly can and to be as understanding of the other person's position as you possibly can.

26:57Romesh Ranganathan:And it sounds like you are doing that. Let's look at it in a very black and white way. He wants to come to this thing. It is his daughter, and he wants to come and celebrate his afternoon tea. And, you know, there's part of you that's thinking, I should just make that happen for him. And I understand that, because at the end of the day, he is the kid's father. but um being nice to somebody is not allowing them to behave however they want without consequence and actually consequences and boundaries are actually helpful for people sometimes if people behave in a certain way and are allowed and i'm not saying you've allowed it but if they behave in a certain way and still are able to do things like this when they want to then there's an argument there that they're not going to do anything to change their behavior and so um as Tom said we're not trained in this but just reading your situation I would be inclined to say to your ex to the to the father of children that you can be there if you want but you're gonna have to pay for that yourself I think that asking you to after the way that he's behaved for you to then be required to pay for him to make his way over there and him sort of making any not making any commitment I realize he's unemployed but it is a big thing and so if he really wants to be there then I think it's it's up to him to find the money and be there and I think that would be a a compromise position you could take with him I think it's unreasonable in my opinion for him to expect you to pay again for him to make all his way over there there's no commitment from him there he just turns up on your money and comes to this thing gets to be part of it I think it would be not a bad thing to actually make him to commit to it in terms of making some sacrifice and getting the money together so that he can make his own way there if it's that important to him.

28:41Romesh Ranganathan:But yeah, you're not the arsehole. So I hope it goes brilliantly. Good luck to you and congratulations. Am I the asshole? Am I the asshole? Am I the asshole? Okay. This one is an anonymous... Well, it says please keep me anonymous, but it says Positive Panda. Okay. Hey, guys. Recently started a job with a new company, but in a job role I've done for years. Because I'm experienced, so I'm confident in what I'm doing and my ability to work. A woman that I work with in my new job has been bitching about me to other people in my workplace, saying I'm a try-hard, and there's something about me that just gets on her nerves.