In short
Peyronie’s disease (PD) awareness and treatment, plus “big questions” about perception/inquisitiveness, and a hotel-blinds privacy scare.
Guest backgrounds
No named guests appear in the transcript. The episode is hosted by Tom Davis and another co-host (speaking throughout).
Key claims
PD is caused by scar tissue under the penis, leading to curvature/bump, possible pain during intimacy, and mental health effects (anger, depression, low self-esteem, withdrawal). Cause is often unknown but may follow minor/repeated injury. PD is treatable via diagnosis by a urology specialist, including non-surgical options.
Notable examples
The hosts discuss “tongue vs toilet seat” hygiene comparisons; a train encounter where one host checks on a visibly distressed young man; and a hotel where see-through blinds let a gardener potentially watch the host on the toilet, prompting a room change. They also debate whether “everyone has a past” in an anonymous relationship advice email.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Peyronie's Disease
0:00 to 0:53
Learn about Peyronie's disease and its impact on men's health.
“Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of, and it turns out it's more common than you'd think.”
Laptop Nostalgia and Cleaning
2:47 to 4:13
Romesh and Tom discuss the fate of old laptops and personal hygiene.
“Just to clean it from its sins, because it might be like, you know, like the Chucky doll.”
Hygiene Debates: Laptops vs. Toilets
4:13 to 6:34
A humorous debate on cleanliness between laptops and toilet seats.
“How often do you actually clean your laptop, like wipe it clean?”
Inquisitive Minds: Questions We Ignore
6:34 to 10:21
Romesh and Tom reflect on lost curiosity and the importance of questioning.
Existential Thoughts and Reality
10:21 to 12:26
Exploring deep thoughts on existence and perception of reality.
“I don't know if sand not being mud is the first, what would be my initial go-to.”
Brain Perception and Reality
12:26 to 14:00
Discussing how the brain interprets reality and fills in gaps.
“If you want to say it in a sort of not profound way.”
Understanding Perception: Tree Stumps and Human Emotion
14:00 to 20:10
Explore how our brains can misinterpret reality and the emotions tied to perception.
Understanding Perception: Tree Stumps and Human Emotion
20:22 to 20:46
Explore how our brains can misinterpret reality and the emotions tied to perception.
“That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance.”
An Unforgettable Train Encounter
21:20 to 28:06
Romesh shares a poignant moment from the train involving a young man's sorrow.
“What would I want somebody sat opposite me to do if I was in this situation?”
Toilet Talk and Prison Perspectives
28:06 to 36:20
The hosts discuss their toilet habits, preferences, and humorous prison scenarios.
“I'd love to get into like a, you know, like a chamber, if that was possible, like a tiny, like little...”
Show all 18 chapters
Room with a View: The Curtain Dilemma
36:20 to 40:06
Romesh shares a story about his hotel room lacking privacy and the conversation with reception.
“I can't imagine not wearing shoes to breakfast, to be honest with you.”
Breakfast Attire: Socks vs. Shoes
40:06 to 42:00
A light-hearted debate over the appropriateness of breakfast attire in hotels.
“and she's trying to enjoy a cocoa box with this fucking old boy hanging out.”
Fashion Trends and Personal Style
43:26 to 45:04
The hosts discuss changing fashion trends and personal experiences with styles.
“That's why I try to wear a little, like, I do a little fold-up on the old trouser.”
The Debate on Skinny Jeans
45:04 to 46:48
A humorous debate on the appropriateness of skinny jeans for different body types.
“I would go as far as to say that if we were to suddenly follow a trend, it would look tragic.”
The Comfort of Jeans
46:48 to 48:06
The conversation shifts to the comfort levels of wearing jeans and their practicality.
“you shouldn't be doing anything to emphasise the difference between your legs and your body, really.”
Navigating Relationship Trust Issues
48:06 to 49:28
The hosts respond to a listener's dilemma about trust in relationships.
“I think you should do a little advert for me.”
Open Communication in Relationships
49:28 to 54:40
Further discussion on the importance of open communication in addressing relationship concerns.
“I think if it feels like it's deceitful and it feels like he's doing it without you, your knowledge or he's been protected.”
Reflections on Life and Art
56:00 to 56:58
Exploration of themes in a recent artistic work and personal reflections.
“Yeah, I'm trying to be more concise with these and write them, but I'm not sure if it works.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Romesh Ranganathan:Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of, and it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve or the bump during an erection, and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self-esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD. The actual cause of PD isn't always known.
0:35Romesh Ranganathan:In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is, PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit TalkAboutPD.com. Let's talk about Peyronie's disease, or PD. It's not widely talked about, and some men may feel reluctant to bring it up, but it's more common than you'd think. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve or the bump during an erection that, for some men, may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health.
1:17Romesh Ranganathan:A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment. Visit TalkAboutPD.com.
1:48This is incredible! Wow! I am clear in the rest of the day. Disney and Pixar's Hoppers, now available on Disney+. Rated PG.
2:17Both of them are known to pull up at your shows Have the crowd witnessing a murder like they rolled in with a gang of crows Fuck the censorship, let them see the whole thing
2:25Romesh Ranganathan:They stay dressed to kill, never sheep's clothing Dark enough to turn the sun to the moon, you'll see nothing All you hear is a huff a puff and a... Expect killings, red spilling and flesh ripping Impressive innit, the death bringing its head spinning Just kidding, every word in this song's about two grown men Dressed up as a bird and a dog And welcome to the Wolf and Owl hello everybody hope you're well hope you're really good um i'm just filling while tom davis still sort of sets up his recording end of things and it's a new laptop i'm i'm on a new laptop yeah yeah principally this is this is a different journey now for us yeah this is i've had my last laptop just died it was sad man it was so so sad yeah some memories with that guy yeah yeah what are you going to what are you going to do with it i don't know i sort of suppose you you can actually give it away to sort of like you can get it sort of fixed and give it to sort of like some sort of charity right yeah i would get it cleansed you know i'd do a deep clean on it because uh how long have you had that laptop for i've had it for i think 10 years 11 years yeah i would get them to completely strip it right back to the bare bones and maybe i would take how often do you actually clean your laptop like i would take a church or something and see if they can put some holy water on it.
3:44Seance on it. Get a priest to say a prayer for it. Just touch it.
3:50Romesh Ranganathan:Like a candle for it. Just to clean it from its sins, because it might be like, you know, like the Chucky doll. It's got sort of a spirit of a pervert in it. And it might infect anybody else who uses it. You know, God knows who knows what's gone on the Google searches on that little piece of equipment. If it got sent to some sort of third world country and start an epidemic of sort of a grot. Yeah. Grumble.
4:19How often do you actually clean your laptop, like wipe it clean?
4:22Romesh Ranganathan:Not that often, actually, I would say. And I think, isn't it right that most laptops are, I've probably just made this up, most laptops are less clean than a toilet seat, I believe. Do you know that a toilet seat is the barometer of everything that's disgusting, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think it's, you know, hygiene is... Well, actually, the seat isn't that dirty. It's such a horrible offence to the toilet seat. Because the seat, like the pan and the actual seat, if your bum and your arse around it has been showered and cleansed, like, your bum is actually cleaner than your hand. Yeah.
4:54I don't know if your bum's cleaner than your hand, is it? Why would your bum, like, the actual, where the seat goes, around the rim of your arse, right? Around the outer circumference of your butt, right? That's not, that can't be that dirty. No, I suppose not.
5:09Romesh Ranganathan:I suppose not. but you are washing your hands during the summer sweat but that's no different than your stomach your back your knee yeah i mean this is disgusting disgusting this is disgusting but yeah you're right no it's not though it was just this is like science yeah yeah i'm just saying if i'm the toilet seat and everyone's going oh your laptops are more disgusting the toilet seat you're like fucking give me a break here man i'm drawing the artist yeah i mean it wasn't i wasn't saying in an accusatory technique i was just using it as sort of a measurement i thought it was a light chat about a keyboard and now you're starting to get kind of angry um no i'm just saying the actual the back of the pan the the torch so i'd say actually like sometimes i think your tongue is one of the most disgusting things um what what more disgusting than your ass no your are yeah your butt your actual bum hole like your fart piece that's dirty right yeah but your tongue has got all kinds of bacteria from the air and stuff going into it yeah your tongue is yeah your mouth is the input, right?
6:09And your butt's the output, right? So all the grot and dirt is going into your mouth.
6:14Romesh Ranganathan:I'm actually going to look this up. What, are you going to Google it? Yeah.
6:20Romesh Ranganathan:The short answer is it depends on how you... Your mouth and tongue contain a higher and more complex concentration of diverse bacteria than your anal region. There you go, you're not wrong. I'm right. Your mouth is home to hundreds of different species of bacteria estimates range from 300 to 700 species the anal region is certainly host to bacteria but the microbial microbial environment is typically more specialized hmm the the if dirty means containing a higher number of this way it's basically your tongue your tongue has got more different types of bacteria than your anus your anus is a specialist your tongue is more a jack of all trades bacteria wise so but this is what this is in some ways why i wish i'd sort of concentrated more in science because i feel like i'd be the sort of person in a lab who'd be asking questions rather than just like fucking going along with stuff do you know what i mean yeah what what experiment do you think you'd be what would you be doing that would lead to these kind of questions do you think well no first of all i'd be going like everyone's having a go at toilet seats mate let's have a look at tongues versus bums yeah i think there'd probably be a thing where they're going, I don't know why Tom's getting so aggressive about this, we're just all scientists trying to figure stuff out, and he keeps getting on this staunch defence, he climbed up on the lab desk the other day and started threatening people with a Bunsen burner if they didn't stop inserting toilet seats you know, like No, but I just look at it wrong, and sometimes I just think all of us just, like my daughter's asking questions now and I think at some point I stopped asking questions I just went along with it I became like a fucking just like a lemming my daughter asks why do dogs bark and why do cats meow and I'm just like I don't know and she's like haven't you ever asked and then I'm like fuck I haven't I haven't inquired I've not thought about it aren't they barking and meowing to communicate that doesn't feel yeah that's what I mean but why a bark and why a meow because that's what that's what their vocal cords allow them to do that's what I'm saying but that's what they've evolved to do I mean I would say if you're going to give an example of a question don't give a really easy one like that okay here's one for you why does rain happen and ice and snow I don't even know it just happens the cloud just gets full of water these are really simple questions that you're getting stuck on
8:46Romesh Ranganathan:the go to one that people say is why is the sky blue which is but why is there rain I mean that's like yeah but can I just say by the way why is I know why the sea's blue because it's a reflection of the sky right so sorry did you sorry you sort of stop there like you've got a round of applause on Mock the Week
9:15no but I know that one if she comes at me with that one yeah okay yeah but she's only going to ask you that one and why is the sun yellow because it's on fire yeah okay good right I know these things but I'm like I've not questioned the universe enough I've not like fucking stood up and gone hey I've literally just gone through life it's like I'm in a bubble and I'm like oh the things in my bubble I know what they are do you know what I mean I know that hops makes beer and I know that you put food in an oven and it cooks
9:44Romesh Ranganathan:do you know what I mean and that's everything isn't it I think pretty much but I haven't but I haven't like looked out into the wider world and going, oh, why is this and why is that? Why is sand, not mud? Do you know what I mean? Fucking hell. Okay.
10:05Romesh Ranganathan:The thing that I would say is, look, I am being facetious. You are asking some... I do think you have a point. At some point we get into a closed mentality where we think we know what we know and we lose our inquisitive mind. And I think you're probably right. which would probably be more inquisitive. I don't know if sand not being mud is the first, what would be my initial go-to. No, but do you know the thing as well that I realise, aside you, right, and a spatula of others, right, I'm like... Yeah, like when and how do you use the word spatula to be a good one for you to look up?
10:46But a lot of my friends are like me. You know, we'd sit around and like, you know, you ask me questions about football, boxing I'm fucking all over it mate but I'm like, Christ, I've got to 46 and I feel quite naive you and your friends that aren't me
10:58Romesh Ranganathan:sitting around is probably like listening to them sitting around the pool at Love Island you've been asking things like I think you're being very kind do you know, I've had the same conversation with my friends over and over can you name the World Cup team for 1966 or who's in the world who's in the team that didn't qualify in 1994 for England why didn't we qualify and then we spent ages dissecting that and no one's turning around and going like I don't know even like the earth being flat or sort of trying to break down how did we even get here and what happened to the Vikings yeah I mean it's a weird sequence of questions I'd say but I think how did we even get here I was reading a book yesterday actually this is do you know what that is the first time I had a conversation with anyone I was reading a book yesterday but I was reading a book yesterday this is fucking mad right in the book it said first of all that we I mean this is quite slightly depressing but it said that we're all going to die and everyone we know is going to die and the only way that you carry on with your life is by not engaging with that and what you do is you pretend to give your life purpose by doing bits and pieces or whatever.
12:20Romesh Ranganathan:And actually none of this matters. So it's quite a depressing start to the book. Oh my God, Jesus Christ. I know, I know, I know. But that is the thing, if you peel an onion, it gets more fucking more sour, right? The sweetness is on top. Yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah. If you want to say it in a sort of not profound way. But the other thing is, apparently we're not experiencing the universe. You know, everything we're experiencing is what I'll... You know, like you hear and see things, but you're not actually hearing and seeing them. Your brain is in like a... What do you mean? As in like everything you're experiencing is what your senses are kind of putting together.
12:57Romesh Ranganathan:So we're conforming to what they want us to be? No, no, no. You've completely misconstrued what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what we're experiencing is not reality. It's a... We've generated it. Your eyes go, okay, this is what this looks like and so that's what you're getting. your ears go this is what it looks like and you're completely dependent on the quality of what's coming in in terms of how you form the universe you know like sometimes you don't see stuff like you know like say for example one of the examples that gave in the book is like if you if you're walking along and it's quite dark yeah and you see a man stoops over right and then you walk closer to that man and it ends up it's like a tree stump or something and you go fucking hell i thought i saw a man you did see a man your brain has gone oh that looks like a man so i'm going to fill it in as a man and then when you get closer because i know it's a tree stump so you did actually see that thing so you're a lot of what you're seeing is like your brain is your brain is filling in the edges until you get closer and see what it actually is or until you look around i mean i i'm i'm i'm overly summarizing it probably in an accurate way because i'm thick but you know that's kind of the just so they're saying if you see a tree stump that you think's a man it was a man until you got close and it turned into a tree stump it wasn't actually a man no but your brain is gone that's probably a man and so that's what you're seeing until you get closer and realize it isn't do you and what when you're walking up to it then you're like it's fight or flight because you think why is a man sleeping over or yeah it could be he could be looking for trouble he could be like or is it like oh shit that guy injured himself so then you're like sort of you've got an air of concern so you're you're heightened to your emotion and then you get there go it's just a tree stump this is all for nothing no no that's not what i'm saying at all I'm just saying you're really extrapolating this to a point I'm not talking about I'm just saying that your your your your brain is just going it's probably a man it's like filling it in for you what it thinks is the most likely thing that is and then you go oh no it's not a man does that make sense yeah kind of welcome to welcome to two fucking idiots trying to get deep no no but like i like i if like it feels like i know that that there's some sort of intelligence to that but if i if i was to sort of put that if i was to tell you like oh yeah yeah it's because someone clever's told you that if i went to you oh yeah by the way you know you saw that tree stump the other day and you thought it was a man well it was a man until you actually realized it was a tree stump and then that's your brain filling in you go fuck off you stupid idiot because someone Clever's told you that like you're you're buying you're buying the canteen food even though you want a restaurant meal you know what I mean how does that analogy work what do you mean
15:51but that's quite I was expecting when you said something a lot more like deep when you start showing off about the fact that you were reading a book right yeah it's like I expected it to be like oh fuck wow wow this is what fucking hell like that's what you're getting from like by the way where were you reading the book because you're so busy at the moment
16:09Romesh Ranganathan:I was on the way home from a thing last night and I was reading the book you know on the train oh my god I actually respect you now so much what do you mean I always look at people like I was on my phone I look up someone on the you know reading a book on a train do you know Bill Nighy reads a book as he walks around London he reads it as he's walking yeah that's quite annoying have you ever seen Bill Nighy in the street no have you seen him in the street no I've seen him twice and he's so focused on the book, he's completely, if you shout his name, he doesn't even look up. Why are you shouting his name?
16:40Romesh Ranganathan:Why are you shouting at Bill Nye? What? No, I went, all right, Bill, like that, as I walked past. I don't think you should have done that. Because we're in the same profession, mate. It doesn't matter. So what? So what? Colleagues. So what? Well, also, it's Bill Nye, by the way. He's a fucking prince. Can I say, the coolest guy I've ever seen in the flesh. He is, like, so fucking sweaty. I reckon, I reckon, I'm going to say rough estimate. since we started doing this podcast, you've said that about 15 people. That's a rough estimate. Mate, do you know he's got in his contract, by the way, in his film runs now, apparently he has to wear really cool suits.
17:18Romesh Ranganathan:That doesn't surprise me. What's that new thing he's in? He's got an amazing office. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I don't know. I've not seen him. But he's just so, like, he's so debonair. Yeah, he just walks. He's just engrossed in this book. And then, like, the thought of now, if I got on a train and saw you sort of like sitting there sort of reading your book I'd be like I don't know maybe I'll just get a book to carry around with me because I think when you see someone with a book you go it's a gravitas that they carry do you know what I mean and by the way I'm not talking before you jump in I'm going to sit there reading the fucking the Gruffalo on the book as a book I'm like I mean you've even fucked up the insult that's what that's what we're dealing with here don't you think I just think oh yeah well I think it depends what it is I'm reading a book on a Kindle you know because I don't want to carry loads of books around with me but I think I don't think that looks that intellectual I think you know when you see somebody who's reading like if you're on a Kindle it's different yeah but you know when you see somebody reading like it's like a well-thumbed looks like a really old edition of a book and it's like the cover hasn't really got a big picture on it and all that that to me is like yeah that to me is that is intimidating it's intimidating but also you know like when they have to do that thing where they lick their thumb and then they turn the page.
18:32Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, and then you think you're going to lend that book to somebody you discussed in bars so it's going to be covered in all your spittle.
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21:19Romesh Ranganathan:I had a really quite an upsetting experience on the train the other night. I was, um... Oh, no. well um i was on the train and i i don't want to i don't know how much detail to go into but basically it was quite clear that the there's a sort of guy opposite me must have been like 19 20 years old and he looked like uh he just looked like a normal like kid or whatever i guess like young guy but he was just clearly really fucking upset like really upset like something had happened and it was horrible and so I was sat opposite him and I don't know how to explain it but you know when you read somebody's body language and I could tell that he was really upset but also wanted to be left alone like you know he was keeping himself to himself there was nothing demonstrative about what he was doing it was quite clear he was trying to hide the fact he was really upset but I could tell that he was and so I was sort of having an internal debate about what to do and I was thinking, what would I want to do?
22:20Romesh Ranganathan:What would I want somebody sat opposite me to do if I was in this situation? And I was sort of thinking, well, maybe probably left alone. And then I thought, but I don't want him to, you know, he might fucking, you know, who knows what the situation, it might be that he just needs a bit of money to get home or whatever, in which case I can help him. You know, I was sort of thinking what to do. So then, oh, God, it's so horrible, man. I tapped him because he had headphones on. I tapped him and I said, mate, are you okay? And he like, I don't know how to explain it. Do you know when something just stays with you?
22:57Romesh Ranganathan:His face sort of went into a smile because he's trying to reassure me. And he said, I'm fine, I'm fine, thank you. And then I went, okay, as long as you're sure. And he's like, yeah. And that, my brain recorded, as it does everything, but it recorded that particular image of him like looking clearly upset but smiling for my benefit to you know to sort of say i'm all right yeah and it fucking stayed with me for days afterwards man like like i just i felt so sad that he was so sad i felt you know like and by the way this sounds a bit like i'm making it about myself but i just was really it fucking sometimes you know when you see somebody upset it just like I don't know, man.
23:42Romesh Ranganathan:I couldn't shake it. I was just like this poor guy. In my head, I'm thinking, what is it that led him to be so upset in a public space like that? Then there's part of you thinking, you wish you could have helped him. But obviously, the way he communicated was clearly like, thanks for checking, but I don't want to be spoken to. Do you know what I mean? So it's horrible. It's a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. I felt sorry for him. It's an awful feeling when you feel helpless. Yeah, yeah. And you sort of think, I wish I could help this guy out. But, you know, who knows? Who knows? He might have just been really gutted about the fucking...
24:24Romesh Ranganathan:He might have listened to the Dave album, which made me really sad when I listened to it. So, you know, who knows? Or he could have been a Tottenham fan. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was before the game, so it would have been weird. I mean, if he was really upset about what might follow, then yeah, sure. You'd just be thinking about all the problems that Tottenham had over the last 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just thinking, why is Thomas Frank the right person? Why is Thomas Frank gaslit us with that PSG performance when he's obviously going to go and play incredibly negatively and not in the Tottenham way?
24:57Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, I get it. That could have been what he was upset about. Also, some people just have like a sad face. Yeah, but this wasn't that. I mean, I've got a sad face. Yeah. You know. Now, you've got a sort of like, like you smell a sort of bit of dog shit sort of face. Yeah, yeah. I think Lisa and I both share that. So I imagine that when we're at a thing where people don't really know us, they just want to think, what the fuck is up with that couple? They look so miserable. I constantly just carry a very goofy look that I'm happy with how the world's worked out. Yeah, you've got a great face, I think.
25:34No, not if I'm sad. I've had a week of sadness where I felt very low. And you'd never understand. You'd never get, oh, just one thing or another. We've discussed quite a lot of it. I'm not going to go into it now. No, okay, sure. I'm trying to pick up my spirits. But yeah, I've had a week of feeling like, but then I think people wouldn't necessarily clock that. It's sort of a strange... By the way, I'm in a hotel at the moment. That's why you're talking with a kind of weird volume, isn't it? You're nervous that you're going to be... Yeah, like, yeah, I don't want to be too loud. Because they've moved my room.
26:05because they've moved your room yeah well i turned up at this hotel and checked into the room and it was quite late when i checked in so i sort of drew the uh the blinds uh woke up in the morning and sort of got out of bed and went to the toilet and the toilet the toilet's here and the door for the toilet's there so the sort of toilet looks out of the door and I'm sort of sitting on the toilet and I look up and I look through the blinds and I'm like, oh my God, the blinds are completely see-through. Right. They're like made out of tissue paper. I can see out of the blinds. I can see quite clearly and then a gardener walked past.
Read the full transcript
26:46While you were on the toilet? Yeah. So I'm looking out of the window out of the blinds at this gardener and I could make out every sort of like, every like line and crease of his sort of like face. Sort of like, you know, I could read the badge on his t-shirt, right? And I'm like, oh, my God. But then I sort of thought, and he looks into the window at me and sort of like stare back at him. We're sort of staring at each other. And I'm like, maybe... How long did this moment last for? I don't know. It felt like 25 seconds, but it could have been three. 25 seconds he stared at you on the shitter?
27:19No, no, no. But this is... I'm staring back at him, but I'm like, maybe he's just looking at the window because maybe he needs to like...
27:25Romesh Ranganathan:You couldn't figure out if he could see you or not. Yeah, maybe they're like two-way. like one way so I can see out but he can't see the entire thing so I finish going to the bathroom and sort of I'm a bit paranoid so I go outside to look back through the window and I could see all my room I could see everything right through the two windows I could see so not only has he been looking into the room but also like this is like sort of 7.30 in the morning and like everyone who's like I sleep with a lamp on because I can't sleep in the dark right sure so everyone who's walked past my window that morning and that night have been able to look into the room and see me sleeping you know like david blaine or a sort of fucking right like an animal at the zoo that people have just gone oh god look look at him just laying there asleep well i mean first of all i think when you're doing one of your little research things that you're moving into i think one of them should be uh what is a toilet door for and then the other one is um do they really only no no no no no no no no no no no no no no what do you mean no no no no no what are you saying can i just say i think i always crap with the door open yeah because i don't want to look at a door i want to look out in the room and if it's very confined i like to look out make the toilet feel yeah well that's where we differ i like to um really be closed off you know in the toilet so i guess we've got different tastes Really?
28:52Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah. I like it to be sort of like a... I'd love to get into like a, you know, like a chamber, if that was possible, like a tiny, like little... You'd be terrible in prison, man. You'd be awful in prison, because you've got to share a toilet with... Yeah, that's one of the main reasons I don't commit any crimes, is to avoid exactly that situation. No, no, but you've got shit in front of your cellmate. No, I know, I get that. I get that. That's why I don't want to go. It's one of the many reasons why I don't want to go to prison. If you want some of the others, getting shanked, getting a kettle full of boiling water with sugar in it poured over my face.
29:28Unless you go in there for a really dodgy thing, I don't think any of those things are going to happen to you. I think the worst situation for you will be shitting in front of you. And also, I think the food will be a problem for you.
29:38Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, what are the vegan options like in a prison? Oh, my God. I love the idea of you turn up in prison going, could I have a private bathroom? And what's the vegan menu looking like, officer jackson i know you've got vegan on it but you still need a protein element sorry have you got any legumes or beans or chickpeas listen i know you mean i know you said the the meringue isn't vegan but are you aware that you can make you can actually whip up something with aqua father from the chickpea tin what prison are you going to that they're serving meringues? Well, they did Pavlova in the prison in Paddington too, didn't they?
30:22Romesh Ranganathan:Pavlova, it was kind of cool. I mean, listen, prisons have got a... I love the idea of Lisa turning up to visit you and go, how are you getting on, baby? Are you okay, yeah? Is it alright? And you're like, oh, is it alright? What if meringue ain't been vegan? I remember like... I'd had a dessert in a week. You know my dad was at Ford Open Prison. Yeah, yeah. So that was like the most relaxed prison you can get. I think I've talked about this. A couple of weekends, he came home with us. Really? Yeah. Yeah, Ford is well known for that. Yeah. Like a few friends who went to Ford. Yeah, so he would like come home with us for the day.
31:00Romesh Ranganathan:And as a kid, and we're going, Dad, you're out. What the fuck's going on now? I'm like, we're out, man. What, then would you just drop him back? Yeah, then you've got to drop him back at prison. It's fucking wild. what's the meringue situation like dad so going back to the toilet situation yeah i i then go to reception i'm like um there were no curtains in your room no no so just a blind just these oatmeal like blinds that were sort of like see-through yeah i then go to see the the receptionist and i'm like hey um i'm a little bit concerned about the fact that people can see into my room and she went oh are you staying in blah blah room and I went yeah and she went yeah we've had problems with that before I was like then put some curtains in there it's a really nice room but like people can see into my room like I don't need people Did you say it like that with that tone?
31:54Romesh Ranganathan:No no no no of course no no no I didn't even say about the curtains I said but I said like we need to do something about it it's a lovely room but I'm a bit like worried that people have can see in like I was just on the toilet and the gardener looked in I was hoping that she didn't go oh we've not got a gardener then I've got to start worrying about ghosts, but she said he was a gardener. Or it could just be a person that you thought was a gardener. I mean, the fact that ghosts... He was definitely a gardener. He was definitely a gardener. He could be pretending to be a gardener, so that could be a regular thing that he was doing.
32:26Romesh Ranganathan:What looks... Oh, my God. I don't even think of that. I mean, it's more likely than a ghost, isn't it? The sort of guy that enjoys... A fetishist. Yeah. He's got a fetish for a ghost. Well, I'm just saying... I will say this. I'll say that if anything is going to put his fetish off, it's seeing me on the toilet at fucking... No, but I imagine you're like sort of the hardcore version of that. Like you're the, you know, if you're into that sort of thing, you're like, you're the creme de la crap, you know? No, no, no, no, no. I think he's looking for something else. Like he's looking for, yeah, yeah.
32:58I think we both know what he's after.
32:59Romesh Ranganathan:Well, we've just made this whole scenario up, so how do we know anything? What the fuck are you talking about? I'm just saying that, mate, I could see by his face I knew what he was looking for. Well, you thought he was a ghost two minutes ago, and now suddenly you definitely know what he's looking for. No, but I could say pervert-wise, I'm a good judge of pervert. Right. And I'm like, I know what his kink was. Yeah, I know. His kink. Yeah. People know their own, don't they? So what did you think his kink was then? It wasn't me. He didn't look best pleased that I was what he'd like. I mean, I've got to be honest with you, Tom.
33:31Romesh Ranganathan:This is exactly what the book I was reading was talking about. It's this sort of embellishment and, you know, the addition of... You didn't even know who he was. when you started this story you actually said we looked at each other for three seconds, I wasn't sure if you was able to see in since then, we've had you assuming that it might be a ghost and now, you're definitely sure that it was a pervert, that you could tell what he was looking for from the way that he looked at you through the window by the way, God forbid we're talking about me going to prison that I'm involved in a court case where you've got to be the fucking one of the witnesses in my defence.
34:11Romesh Ranganathan:Story changing six or seven times during the course of a five-minute interrogation. Look, I'll stick by my story, but I'm just saying, right, if he's going to get his... We don't know what your story is currently. Right, I'm on the toilet. He's looking through the window. I can see him. I wasn't sure if he could see me. He knows what he can see, right? So in what you're talking about with your book, right, that you're so fucking wanking over, right? You're not wanking over the book. I literally just... No, right, so look, I've given you a case in which your book is speaking true, right? So you as a lawyer are picking apart this story.
34:46I'm sitting there, mate. I'm almost lighting a cigarette going, go on, fucking smartass. I'm about to fucking rest this case, right? I'm looking out at him, right? In my head, I'm not sure if he can see me. So I'm not making any kind of angle that this guy's a pervert, although I take in his face. I'm looking at him, he's looking at me. I then go round and find out he is looking at me. So then I'm like, this guy's the gardener because he's got a leaf blower, right? That's his job, right? He knows that these blinds are see-through. So every morning when he turns up, he's like, oh, I wonder who's in the birch room.
35:18I wonder who's in there. So he turns up and he's going to have his little morning peek. All of a sudden, the fucking, the man has become a stump, right? I know that this guy's now... I don't think there was any stump.
35:31Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think there was a stump. I'll just say, right, I know now where he's at. He was like, there might be a sleep, that, you know, probably it's an unusual delicacy for him seeing someone with a toilet door open taking a dump. But that is what he's got to take away in his pocket that morning. Do you know what I mean? Usually probably someone having a lay-in, maybe a couple, that's what he likes. Do you know what I mean? You know, the game changes, Ron. Sometimes you're playing Monopoly, sometimes you're playing chess. Just make sure the pieces are on the board, bro, and you've done one of your next moves.
36:03Romesh Ranganathan:All right, all right, fuck you now. don't start talking like you've done a mic drop chat what you said i mean there's so many fucking flaws in what you just said it's unbelievable
36:16Romesh Ranganathan:anyway so this ghost pervert has turned up so so they moved they moved your room so i've moved my room now yeah so what's your room like now i've got full curtains beautiful curtains really thick curtains i'm looking at the front of the house it feels mad that they've had this situation come up before and they haven't done anything about it it's weird strategy yeah but then maybe some people like go in and go oh I really like that I could be looked upon like a fish in a bowl you know what I mean it's like busy people do what I'm saying I'm basing it on what the facts are which is the women said that they'd had problems with that room before that's what I'm basing on you're basing on some speculation can I also ask you a question because you're quite a sort of classy chair where do you stand on wearing shoes down for breakfast uh hotel well um where do I'm wearing shoes.
37:00Romesh Ranganathan:I can't imagine not wearing shoes to breakfast, to be honest with you. In a hotel? This is where, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so what's your take on it? I wear my socks. I just go in socks. Fucking hell.
37:18It's breakfast. I don't want to put shoes on before breakfast. I like to go down with my socks. It's like... How difficult is it to put some shoes on? No, I'm just saying, but it feels like I don't like sitting in shoes having breakfast. I quite like the feeling of being in socks. Like, this is a part of, like, I'm staying here, then, you know, I feel like putting shoes on just feels too much. If I could, I'd go down in my pyjamas, but I know that's frowned upon.
37:42Romesh Ranganathan:I think if everybody was wearing socks at breakfast, it would make me have second thoughts about having breakfast, I think. What? You haven't got to eat off their feet. I know, but it's just like... Shoes are dirtier. Yeah, but, yeah, I agree, I agree. but I just, first of all, I don't, well, actually, you can tell I'm struggling here because now that you've examined it a little bit, I can't give you logical reasons to why I think it's a problem. By the way, you wearing socks, I sort of was being a bit facetious. If you do what you want to do, it's up to you. But I'm just saying personally, I wouldn't go down in socks.
38:21Romesh Ranganathan:What I would consider doing, which I have done, is I often take slippers to a hotel and go down in my slip slips. Yeah, but this is what I'm now thinking. Maybe I start getting some hotel slippers and then I get like a nice pair of pyjamas and a little dressing gown that I wear. I don't think pyjamas and a dressing gown is the way to go. If you've got some like... But it's not much different than a tracksuit. Yeah, but just have some loungewear or something. Do you know what I mean? Are you in the loungewear? What is loungewear? Isn't loungewear just a tracksuit you wear around the house, stroke pyjamas?
38:49T-shirt and joggers. That's what I consider to be. Yeah, but that's two certain joggers. Like, nice loungewear is literally the cousin of both tracksuits. It's like the second cousin of a tracksuit and a... Yeah, fine. But that's different to pajamas.
39:02Romesh Ranganathan:Pajamas, when you say pajamas, I'm imagining you coming down like the little kid in the snowman. Do you know what I mean? Like, stripy pajamas and a dressing... Yeah, but what's... Yeah, what's wrong with that, though? Also, by the way, if you've got nice pajamas, no one can see them. That's apart from the bloke who's looking for the window of the hotel. Like, it feels... I have pyjamas but I don't sleep in them I just put them on when I wake up Yeah that's cute Just for Catherine's benefit yeah Well Catherine and Grace I just like to look nice when I'm right in that house I kind of think sometimes I like the idea of Well this has occurred to me now But it is something I definitely do Which is like trying to give your kids a nice visage For when they like get older And they're thinking about their memories of their childhood You know there's certain snapshots you have of what you did when you were younger.
39:50Romesh Ranganathan:And I think, you know, the idea of sort of sitting around the breakfast table and your dad's in his nice pyjamas and stuff like that, it's a really nice thing for Grace to sort of look back on when she gets older. Yeah. One of her nice little recollections rather than he's just got a dressing gown on and nothing underneath and she's trying to enjoy a cocoa box with this fucking old boy hanging out.
40:12Romesh Ranganathan:So I think it's nice. I think loungewear and slippers to breakfast in a hotel is more than acceptable yeah you know but I think socks is like I don't know man not for me but equally if some do you think I always feel sorry for socks because they like no you can have nice socks and you know sometimes people will never notice them yeah I don't feel sorry for them but yeah I understand what you're saying like sometimes when you have some when you buy some really nice socks yeah you know then you're sort of thinking well this is only they're only really going to get to show themselves off when I'm sat down or like if you're yeah if you're like sort of like a soiree and everyone's standing chatting you're like oh bloody hell I wish my fucking socks had a chance to sing yeah yeah or you know you could just sort of quickly like you know you could put your hands in your pockets and sort of as you're talking just give them a little lift give them a little hike and then nod down but then that could look a bit perverse yeah I always think that socks out of like you know the films have you seen the film Sing?
41:13yeah I have many times you know the elephant girl who's got a beautiful voice but no one believes in that's basically socks isn't it like
41:21Romesh Ranganathan:that was a long old walk wear out a pair of socks the length of that walk laughter laughter laughter laughter laughter laughter laughter laughter
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42:47Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th.
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43:31I do like it. That's why I try to wear a little, like, I do a little fold-up on the old trouser.
43:37Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, that's a good idea. I mean, sometimes my trousers are of a length that the socks are constantly on display, you know. A little, what are they called? What are they called sometimes? It's only when you get excited, though, right?
43:53Romesh Ranganathan:What's it called? You know when they're like, some of my trousers are like slightly higher. What are they called? I fucking can't remember. There's a specific one. Ankle swingers. Yeah, but it's not ankle swingers. It's like, there's like a, oh, I can't remember. Floor something. All my life at school. Yeah. Yeah. All my life at school, I had ankle swingers because my mum and dad couldn't keep up with the gross butt. So my mum was like, you know, you just had to wear a trousers like this. And I remember sort of like walking to school and people going, oh, what, you're spreading to the rain, mate.
44:21Yeah. And that sort of like, now they're fashionable. I look at it and think, I'd have been so fucking drippy as a kid. Like back then it wasn't a look, but yeah. Well, I mean, you've sort of stumbled onto something
44:32Romesh Ranganathan:that I find absolutely ridiculous, which is, you know, us being told every year that a certain fit is fashionable is one of the fucking greatest scams of our world isn't it this this idea that you've got perfectly good clothes you know you've got perfectly good trousers they're fine they're usable they've got many years of wear left in them but you're now there's some diktat from the fashion industry that says you can't wear that fit a trouser this year because you immediately makes you look out of date it's a fucking joke Can I just say, by the way, I think we're in a situation now where I think that we're past that now, me and you, age-wise.
45:09Oh, we are.
45:10Romesh Ranganathan:I would go as far as to say that if we were to suddenly follow a trend, it would look tragic. You and I have an age now where you just go, you wear what you wear. But what I'm saying is this whole thing of like, you know when you read an article, it goes, this summer's all about these jeans. And you go, fuck off. Yeah, can I just say, because skinny jeans will come back. and now I'm like, I will not conform. I know that I won't have to conform. You didn't have to conform the first time. There's a little revelation for you, something that will tip that you can give to Grace. You don't have to conform to any of this.
45:43No, no, wait, that's one of the things I will pass out because I will just show her pictures of me in spray-on trousers that I used to wear. Like, there was no... I was almost the worst look at that point in my life for those sorts of trousers. But I carried on regardless. Yeah. And I got addicted to skinny jeans. It was almost like they couldn't be skinny enough. I was wearing jeggings for a while. Christ.
46:10Romesh Ranganathan:People with... By the way, I'm reacting like I didn't fall foul of this. I did wear skinny jeans as well. Not super skinny like that. Not where I felt restricted, but, you know, skinny enough. And people that are built like yourself and me, and we should not be wearing skinny jeans. We just shouldn't. No. No, but I also think they don't look good on anyone, really. No, they do. Women, but not men. Some people, they do. Some blokes, they do. Yeah, yeah, I guess. You have to have a very specific physique for that to suit you. And people like us, who essentially built like toffee apples, you shouldn't be doing anything to emphasise the difference between your legs and your body, really.
46:54Romesh Ranganathan:If anything, you should be going the other way. Like 501s. No, no. I think you can't go wrong with a pair of 5-0 ones. Yeah, I think that's probably right. I mean, I like nudie jeans. They do that thing where you can send them back or whatever and get them redone or whatever. It's like environmentally sound, I think. I've never had a pair of nudie jeans. I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never had nudie jeans. They're good. They're good. I don't think I've... I wore jeans for the first time in five months, maybe, when I was in America on tour. and when you've not worn jeans for a while, the idea of wearing jeans feels so ridiculous.
47:32Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, they're not comfortable, are they? If they get any moisture on them, that takes three years to get out. I mean, they're not a great garment, are they? I do think they look so nice with some outfits. Sometimes I wear a pair of jeans, and I feel like there's nothing better than putting on a pair of jeans and feeling like an elegant cowboy, I think. No, fair enough. By the way, are they managing electrolytes you're drinking? How do you know I'm drinking electrolytes? I can see the... Mate, I'm an electrolyte scientist. Yeah, they are mandrel. How are they? Nice? What flavour? This is watermelon.
48:06I think you should do a little advert for me. Like a proper little, nice little advert for us.
48:10Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I know you think that. Make it be nice. Yeah, I know you think that. Obviously you think that. What's that? Is that a quite... Is that an unusual hot take from you that you think I should do a free advert for your company? Oh, that's interesting. you are a quirky type aren't you
48:32Romesh Ranganathan:right should we um what should we do should we do one email just do one sweet email baby one email and then close up um my internet is is making this almost almost untenable yeah go for it okay this is from anonymous hi you lovely pair i've been listening to it for years and I really enjoy your podcast it makes my commutes a whole lot better I'd really appreciate your perspective on something I recently found out that my boyfriend occasionally messages someone from his past who he was intimate with he didn't tell me this but I saw a notification on his phone I haven't seen the messages so I don't know what they say when I asked him about it he said he just checks in on her and her children he sometimes chats the next from school he's now 29 he also sorry he also sometimes chats with an ex from school he's now 29 I'm not sure how to feel about this shall I be worried or is this something I should let go any advice would mean a lot part of me wants to go through his phone but i think ignorance is bliss what's your opinion and that is from anonymous tom that's quite a tricky one uh that is a tricky one because i do think that i think if he's quite open about the fact he's doing that sort of stuff i think the fact is that everyone has a past and i think if i think the fact is if if he's being open with you that he's messaging them and he's not acting in in a suspicious and and what feels conniving way he's just like i'm just checking in on someone uh from your past i think i think sometimes and i'm yeah i might be wrong here but sometimes too much is thrown on the fact it's yeah man or female in a sense do you know i mean in the fact that if that was a bloke from school that he was friends with it wouldn't really matter yeah just because it's a woman from his past it It feels like, you know, that is, that's a deeper thing.
50:20And I think like, you know, you have friends and if it is simply just a friend from the past or an ex that, you know, he's moved on from in that sense, but they still sort of have some sort of friendship, I don't think that's harmful. I think if it feels like it's deceitful and it feels like he's doing it without you, your knowledge or he's been protected. I think when it comes to looking through phones as well, I think that's such a dangerous thing. I think it's such a dangerous thing because I think ultimately, if you ask him to look through his phone, you're essentially going, I don't trust what you're doing.
50:56There's not trust here. And I think trust is kind of paramount in a relationship. And I think if you don't find something, or if you find something, firstly, and it's something you don't want to see, then, yeah, it's kind of, it's a long way back for both of you. But if you then go through his phone and you haven't trusted in the fact that he said, I'm not doing anything, and this is quite, it's a platonic, and it's a very sort of, like, it's not a, you know, it's not a sort of sexual relationship, it's nothing, sort of, it's just literally just checking in on someone, and you find it just to be that, then I think he's then gonna, he'll be like, well, yeah, you haven't trusted in what I've said, and I was quite open with you about doing the thing I'm doing.
51:37It's a very, it's a very difficult position, because I also understand you need peace of mind it's a very yeah and I think you're having been to a cheated upon cheated on a couple of times and knowing that feeling like it kind of is a feeling that I think you kind of know that that's happening but also then I've also been in situations where just having been through that my own uh paranoia and my own you know sort of anxiety and sort of stuff of the past kicks in a little bit and you start like you start catastrophizing and start thinking oh this feels the same so I think if he's been open and quite honest and said that this is all it is you kind of have to trust in that yeah I just think you're opening potentially a can of worms that you don't need to open if you go through his phone but yeah I hope this has helped I feel like it's sort of, I'm not sure if it has, but anyhow, on to you, Romeski.
52:41Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, look, I think don't go through his phone would be my advice. I think that, I'm not saying that you shouldn't feel the urge to go through his phone, but I don't think any good can come from that. I think that, you know, if you do go onto his phone and then you find something, it's not, it's an invasion of privacy, really. And then if you go onto his phone and there's nothing wrong, then you've done something wrong there and you don't want to have that feeling. And equally, if you find it, if you go through his phone and you find something, it's not a pure way of finding this thing out. Look, the truth is you know better than we do.
53:24Romesh Ranganathan:Why do you feel like you want to go through his phone? Why is it such a big deal that he's getting in touch with his ex? Is that because there's an inherent suspicion you've got in yourself because of his other behaviour? is he secretive around his phone do you know in your heart of hearts that there's something going on there or there might be something going on you know this and you've got a feeling and whatever that feeling is you need to speak to him about it and i think you could say to him what you said to us which is i've had the urge to go through your phone because i feel uncomfortable about it and have a chat about it and get it out into the open the best way for these things is to get out in the open the idea of you having this thing and he might be you know you having this secret set of anxieties and stuff like that that you haven't talked to him about i think you just get that out in the open put it in the light and say to him look this is the situation and he might choose to show you the messages uh or he might not and if he doesn't then it's up to you know i'm not saying that he has to show you the messages but we're all entitled to privacy in our own relationships but i guess what i'm saying is if you open it up and have the chat with him you will very quickly get an idea from his reaction and how he's talking as to what's really going on is my feeling on it but good luck with it i hope it all goes okay
54:40tom yo could you please do us the honor of uh taking us out of this episode of the wolf and my g my guy i want to talk to you about the humble leaf born raised eager doing its best springtime, never ever asking for applause. Summer comes and it thrives, sun shining at it, like a solar panel almost for a tree. Every now and again, a squirrel just using it simply as a napkin. And then autumn arrives and its colour shifts. Time comes and it just downwards, falling towards the floor. Dignity gone, maybe. Almost just collapsing from the floor. Is he at the end of life? Maybe. Settles up the ground amongst his brethren, quiet, peaceful.
55:34But then comes a leaf blower, being blown by a sweet soul, maybe, maybe a pervert who likes looking in at a window in a hotel, at people taking poos and sleeping. The leaf is flung up skyward, then tumbling into the unknown. listen closely listen closely is it afraid? I think not my friend is this the end of its journey? maybe maybe not maybe it should be used in potpourri or for another fragrance it's a reminder to us all that sometimes things feel like the end but it isn't it's just another gust of wind blowing us upward
56:19Romesh Ranganathan:oh that's the end okay great really good yeah yeah good Good, good, good. Yeah, I'm trying to be more concise with these and write them, but I'm not sure if it works. No, it's really good. It's really good. I loved it, the goth stuff. And then you brought you sort of folded in the pervert. And the papyri. I've rediscovered the delight that is Jamiroquai recently. Oh, wow. So, JT, could you play us out with a little bit of Jamiroquai? Love philosophy, please. It would be great. Animal Pack, I apologise for my... I'm sure JT will tidy this up a little bit, but I apologise for my internet connection I made the end of it particularly janky but have a great week everybody take care of yourselves and we will see you next time on this little thing that we call the Wolf in Our Podcast take care of yourselves bye bye
57:20Romesh Ranganathan:I'm an error Seems so true All the lies you're telling Tragically compelling And I know My love, it means nothing to do So maybe I'm still a fool
57:45Romesh Ranganathan:If you have a problem, opinion, feedback or anything at all, please email us at wolfowlpod at gmail.com. That's wolfowlpod at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you, mainly because we don't have any content ideas. Thank you. That's the sound of zero sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine, and the power to burn body fat. Storm, energy for life. Storm Energy Blend helps boost metabolism, which in combination with exercise and a healthy diet helps burn fat. This product alone does not produce weight loss. Individual results may vary. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people?
58:22Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. And they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip, they stay for hours. They don't move on, they manifest. They're not a demographic group, they're fans.
58:43Romesh Ranganathan:Spotify Advertising. You're among fans.
From the publisher
We’re talking… Tom’s new laptop, clean toilets and dirty tongues, big questions about the natural world, some philosophy on perception, reading books, saying hello to Bill Nighy, a sad encounter on a train, see through hotel blinds and a peeping Tom, being a vegan in prison, appropriate breakfast footwear, showing socks off and skinny jeans fashion.
For questions or comments, please email us at wolfowlpod@gmail.com - we’d love to hear from you.
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A Mighty Ranga Production
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